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#2751 RedBaron

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 07:11

I have lot of confidence in this Michael-Brawn combo. I am sure Michael is working hard on his 2011 car and building a strong base with the 2010 car.

He is way too unlucky this season with all those wierd things happening around F1.



I'm not sure they're working on 2011 in any kind of full capacity and I would doubt Schumacher is at all. Surely next season both drivers should have a car more to their liking as it will be designed for them, which might help the tyre issue next season. Right now the car was designed with Button in mind, who drives very differently to both Nico and Schumacher.

Schumacher has had bad luck this season, about time he had some I guess as he didn't seem to have much in the later stages of his last career! I'm not even hoping for good luck as in Kobayashi's luck from Valencia, just no bad luck that sends him way down the field.

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#2752 ViMaMo

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 07:45

Im not ruling out anything with the Brawn-Schu combo.
Their car is just mediocre this season. And Rosberg was doing much better before the limo came.

Maybe they just need to abandon this year's efforts.

Anyways MS had the second fastest lap time in the race if its any consolation.

#2753 RedBaron

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 07:49

Im not ruling out anything with the Brawn-Schu combo.
Their car is just mediocre this season. And Rosberg was doing much better before the limo came.

Maybe they just need to abandon this year's efforts.

Anyways MS had the second fastest lap time in the race if its any consolation.


By limo I assume you mean longer wheel based car? I'm not sure Rosberg was actually doing better with the short wheel based car. I think just when they stuck on the updates, other teams bolted on updates too, and they just worked better than Mercedes. I think he was doing the same, just other teams improved past Mercedes.

Obviously when they reverted back to it in Monaco it looked faster that's probably just down to the fact shorter wheels base is far better for the tight streets and that's a one off occasion.

#2754 ViMaMo

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 07:56

By limo I assume you mean longer wheel based car? I'm not sure Rosberg was actually doing better with the short wheel based car. I think just when they stuck on the updates, other teams bolted on updates too, and they just worked better than Mercedes. I think he was doing the same, just other teams improved past Mercedes.

Obviously when they reverted back to it in Monaco it looked faster that's probably just down to the fact shorter wheels base is far better for the tight streets and that's a one off occasion.


First four races of the season for Rosberg

Race 5-5-3-3
Qual 5-6-2-4



#2755 ivand911

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 08:07

You remember last year ,first races for Button and what happen after this. It is development race. Rosberg also have some luck with front runners doing bad. But this is Michael thread.

#2756 cindy4ever33

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 08:14

I think this year MS has problems suiting the tyres because his old knowledge of driving no longer fits the rapidly updated Formula One.

As for next year, I still hold confidence for Michael-Ross combo. Last year, maybe Ross spent too much time in wining champions and celebrations. They should take this year as a good lesson to learn.

#2757 RedBaron

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 08:20

First four races of the season for Rosberg

Race 5-5-3-3
Qual 5-6-2-4


I wasn't disagreeing that Rosberg did better in the first few races than now. But I don't think if they switched to the short wheelbase car that Mercedes would be top 5 again, at all. Mercedes developed their car, everyone else developed their car - just better than Mercedes. If Mercedes switched back to the short wheelbase car now, they'd be further behind than they currently are.


#2758 Frans

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 08:26

:rolleyes: is that you ???

Edited by Frans, 29 June 2010 - 08:26.


#2759 korzeniow

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 10:54

You remember last year ,first races for Button and what happen after this. It is development race. Rosberg also have some luck with front runners doing bad. But this is Michael thread.


Yeah, but Brawn GP didn't have founding last year contrary to this year.

Edited by korzeniow, 29 June 2010 - 11:05.


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#2760 RedBaron

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 10:57

Yeah, but Brawn GP didn't have founding last yea contary to tis year.


Mercedes have already decreased their staff numbers dramatically for when the rule enforcing it is imposed. Which means it won't be until 2012 when everyone will really be under this rule. The other teams can still split some of their extra staff they currently have now to work on 2011 car, so they still carry a part advantage going into 2011.

Edit: Just adding to why despite more funding the team might have a slower development pace. Doesn't contribute in the entirety though.

Edited by RedBaron, 29 June 2010 - 10:58.


#2761 ivand911

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 11:02

Frans, are you OK? You are talking to yourself? Or you hear voices? I am worried about him.

#2762 korzeniow

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 11:09

Mercedes have already decreased their staff numbers dramatically for when the rule enforcing it is imposed. Which means it won't be until 2012 when everyone will really be under this rule. The other teams can still split some of their extra staff they currently have now to work on 2011 car, so they still carry a part advantage going into 2011.

Edit: Just adding to why despite more funding the team might have a slower development pace. Doesn't contribute in the entirety though.


How much is "dramatically"? I knew last year BrawnGP reduced its staff, but I don't knew how much emloyees they fired this year. Can you explain this to me?

#2763 RedBaron

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 11:27

How much is "dramatically"? I knew last year BrawnGP reduced its staff, but I don't knew how much emloyees they fired this year. Can you explain this to me?


I don't know exactly, I'll take a look and see if I can find out later today and post back if someone else hasn't in that time. I seem to recall it might be something like a few hundred less than say McLaren. But it may in total be a great decrease because (this might be incorrect) but I was under the impression in 2008 Honda and some Super Aguri staff were working on the 2009 car. Which would make any staff Mercedes does have now a much small group of people than the group who worked on their title winner.

#2764 tifosiMac

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 11:32

Poor Michael doesn't seem to get much of a mention. Everyone either wants to bash Hamilton and Alonso or sing their praises.

A race to forget for Mercedes IMO, and I hope Michael stays for 2011 and have a car which will put him in the mix. Afterall this is what everyone has wanted but so far its been one big disappointment. :|

#2765 RedBaron

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 14:01

How much is "dramatically"? I knew last year BrawnGP reduced its staff, but I don't knew how much emloyees they fired this year. Can you explain this to me?


"We are about 700 people at the moment and we talked to the staff about going down to about 430." Nick Fry


#2766 arknor

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 14:03

"We are about 700 people at the moment and we talked to the staff about going down to about 430." Nick Fry

yea they have nearly half the staff of some teams

i wonder if the staff limit will ever really happen though i dont see every team shedding a few hundred people.....

Edited by arknor, 29 June 2010 - 14:07.


#2767 cindy4ever33

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 17:09

"We are about 700 people at the moment and we talked to the staff about going down to about 430." Nick Fry


According to Bild

Er hat deshalb 280 Leute entlassen. 450 Mitarbeiter sind noch in Brackley beschäftigt. Ab nächstem Jahr sind alle Teams gleich groß: Dann darf die Rennmannschaft nur noch aus maximal 350 Mann bestehen. Ferrari, McLaren oder Red Bull müssen zum Teil mehr als die Hälfte ihrer Leute entlassen. Das wird eine Chance.


It seems other teams have to cut more people than MGP. Anyway, I don't think staff number is the key to win a race. Just think about BGP last year, they won the races after such situation.

#2768 arknor

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 17:21

According to Bild


It seems other teams have to cut more people than MGP. Anyway, I don't think staff number is the key to win a race. Just think about BGP last year, they won the races after such situation.

BGP did what last year? start with a car developed at ridiculous cost buy toyota who were rumoured to have more than one full size wind tunnel going 24 hours a day.

when the actual season started the brawn car didnt get any faster every upgrade seemed to make the car more and more undriveable seems to be the same this year i have little faith left in them

#2769 RedBaron

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 17:25

It seems other teams have to cut more people than MGP. Anyway, I don't think staff number is the key to win a race. Just think about BGP last year, they won the races after such situation.


I think we did see the effect of Brawn having less team members last season. The brilliant car they arrived with in Melbourne 2009 was the product of many many staff members and a great length of time in development. During the season after the cuts they weren't able to continue their original form.


#2770 RedBaron

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 17:27

BGP did what last year? start with a car developed at ridiculous cost buy toyota who were rumoured to have more than one full size wind tunnel going 24 hours a day.


Wrong Japanese company, although so many have failed in F1 recently so easy mistake :lol:

#2771 Muz Bee

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 22:33

You remember last year ,first races for Button and what happen after this. It is development race. Rosberg also have some luck with front runners doing bad. But this is Michael thread.

I await specific examples from his 2010 season..... The only benchmark we have for Michael's performance is his teammate. If he were matching and getting on top of Nico his year would be judged disappointing by many anyway because they have been so used to seeing winning at least one race in three starts. I think we can be sure the car is a disappointment but Nico had until about race 3/4 this year been regarded as being in the second group of GP drivers. There is now a suspicion that he will be a winner in a competitive car. I'm sure Michael would also raise his game in a competitive car. Champions often fail to fire if the car fails to ignite them, especially this stage of a career. I'm saying, as/if the car becomes more competitive Michael may start to prevail over his teammate.

#2772 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 23:21

BGP did what last year? start with a car developed at ridiculous cost buy toyota who were rumoured to have more than one full size wind tunnel going 24 hours a day.

when the actual season started the brawn car didnt get any faster every upgrade seemed to make the car more and more undriveable seems to be the same this year i have little faith left in them

surely you mean honda? :D


#2773 merschu

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 06:17

Here is the start of the Valencia GP by Schumi, when he moved up from 15th to 11th place on the 1st lap.


Edited by merschu, 30 June 2010 - 06:27.


#2774 Bleu

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 07:57

Here is the start of the Valencia GP by Schumi, when he moved up from 15th to 11th place on the 1st lap.


Seems like his start wasn't anything special but he managed to make some moves in the first lap, especially with two FIs battling.

#2775 baddog

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 08:00

What on earth was Rosberg doing at that chicane?

#2776 Frans

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 08:00

Why can't he bring something like .... 6 tenths or something to the team?

 ;)

#2777 Augurk

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 08:33

Why can't he bring something like .... 6 tenths or something to the team?

;)

Just wait until next year. :cool:
It's not like he has had much chance to affect the car development as of yet....

Edited by Augurk, 30 June 2010 - 08:35.


#2778 Augurk

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 08:34

Here is the start of the Valencia GP by Schumi, when he moved up from 15th to 11th place on the 1st lap.

Amazing! Thanks, didn't know what the hell happened on that first lap but that's positively amazing! Had a normal start without winning or losing a position but took 4 places during the first lap, which is perhaps even more impressive than doing so at the start!

#2779 Juan Kerr

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 09:27

I think Michael is a podium waiting to happen, Canada he had a great start also but at this race how quickly did he react on the outside of the first corner to avoid that car coming across his nose ? Very impressive, all he had to do was stay out on his hard tyres and whilst in 3rd place if he had the pace to pull away from Kobayashi he could've pitted for Softs around the same time as him. It may have resulted in a podium perhaps more realistically 4th or 5th.

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#2780 Diablobb81

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 09:58

Oh, noes! He overtook Rosberg on track. Schumi should retire. :rotfl:

That video was even better thatn just a good start.

#2781 ivand911

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 10:41

This is something, on a track where it is hard to overtake. Everyone one new tires, he was even on hards(usually softer tire could be faster). To overtake three cars that are clearly in front of him. Nice.

#2782 thrillercd

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 12:13

That video was even better thatn just a good start.

:up:

#2783 korzeniow

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 13:08

I think Michael is a podium waiting to happen, Canada he had a great start also but at this race how quickly did he react on the outside of the first corner to avoid that car coming across his nose ? Very impressive, all he had to do was stay out on his hard tyres and whilst in 3rd place if he had the pace to pull away from Kobayashi he could've pitted for Softs around the same time as him. It may have resulted in a podium perhaps more realistically 4th or 5th.


Why so humbly? Let's better say that he would win it....

#2784 hansmann

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 13:33

Good points; the only trouble is, Michael really needs to deliver some noteworthy results.
He had some great starts, decent qualies, very good race performances - but his bottom line is zilch .

Can you imagine him being on the podium ?
People would go bonkers ; it's all about perception, more so with him than anyone else - and results matter.

But I also think it's just a matter of time - I only hope it will happen this season .

I await specific examples from his 2010 season..... The only benchmark we have for Michael's performance is his teammate. If he were matching and getting on top of Nico his year would be judged disappointing by many anyway because they have been so used to seeing winning at least one race in three starts. I think we can be sure the car is a disappointment but Nico had until about race 3/4 this year been regarded as being in the second group of GP drivers. There is now a suspicion that he will be a winner in a competitive car. I'm sure Michael would also raise his game in a competitive car. Champions often fail to fire if the car fails to ignite them, especially this stage of a career. I'm saying, as/if the car becomes more competitive Michael may start to prevail over his teammate.



#2785 ivand911

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 07:51

For me in Valencia we missed opportunity to see Michael driving behind Lewis. To see if he and the car can keep it up. This is the big loss. That would be good 40 laps.

#2786 RedBaron

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 08:02

For me in Valencia we missed opportunity to see Michael driving behind Lewis. To see if he and the car can keep it up. This is the big loss. That would be good 40 laps.


Let's forget the argument between Schumacher having or having not lost it for a second and conclude: No, there is no way the Mercedes would keep up with a McLaren.

Button in the same car as Hamilton set the fastest lap on worn rubber, faster than Schumacher's best in the Mercedes on relatively fresher rubber... Schumacher was cooped up behind Alguersuari in the closing super low fuel stages, but still...

#2787 aditya-now

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 08:20

How many races into the season will denial turn into realization?


There is no denial, neither one necessary :wave:
Haven't you noticed what a great race Michael drove in Valencia? He could have easily become third, had it not been for his team. But even finishing 16th he showed his worth! :up:


#2788 ivand911

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 08:37

Looking back, Michael have only 2 chances for good finish. Staying out or pit for soft tires in 9th lap with the rest. According to pit data with time 21,2s(his second stop) he could easily overtake there Buemi(23,3), Kubica(33s), Barichelo(24s),Hulkenberg(30s in lap10). This mean from the pitstop he could come after Button. And in the end to finish 4th with soft tires. Staying out he could also finish 4-5th.

Edited by ivand911, 01 July 2010 - 08:37.


#2789 bauss

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 08:58

Here is the start of the Valencia GP by Schumi, when he moved up from 15th to 11th place on the 1st lap.


that was impressive.... some fight still left in there :up:

#2790 cheapracer

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 09:23

I'm getting down about it all - it's not just the red light for MS but the whole F1 package these days. I felt sorry for Alonso/Massa etc - a lot of drivers in a lot of races now are getting falsified finishing positions not true to their form good or bad but stupid rules also stemming from stupid incidents that shouldn't happen again pointing at the whole F1 package.





#2791 Sakae

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 12:57

Here is the start of the Valencia GP by Schumi, when he moved up from 15th to 11th place on the 1st lap.


Did Webber bang his front right wheel?

#2792 Sakae

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 13:29

I'm getting down about it all - it's not just the red light for MS but the whole F1 package these days. I felt sorry for Alonso/Massa etc - a lot of drivers in a lot of races now are getting falsified finishing positions not true to their form good or bad but stupid rules also stemming from stupid incidents that shouldn't happen again pointing at the whole F1 package.


Strangely enough, I have similar feeling. This is not a proper F1 I came to know since Lauda years. Despite being assured that this is best season yet, and allegedly "competitive", I do not feel good about it. People are in high ranking positions and I am not convinced they entirely deserve it. Race attrition rate is high; lack of testing, manipulation of tire compounds, race control irregularities not clamping on some of the rogue driving adds up all to big disappointment for me.

Despite being in one of the lowest positions in Michael's career, he has managed to print in Valencia bunch of purples, which is suggestive that perhaps that not all is lost for him.

Edited by Sakae, 01 July 2010 - 14:07.


#2793 mani1

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 16:44

Oh, noes! He overtook Rosberg on track. Schumi should retire. :rotfl:

That video was even better thatn just a good start.

:up:


#2794 Tarzaan

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 11:36

Here is the start of the Valencia GP by Schumi, when he moved up from 15th to 11th place on the 1st lap.



Brilliant! :)

#2795 Zoe

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 12:38

Here is the start of the Valencia GP by Schumi, when he moved up from 15th to 11th place on the 1st lap.


Analog to the Villeneuve thread, maybe those maneuvres in the first lap warrant to start a thread of its own?;)

Zoe

#2796 arknor

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 13:16

Analog to the Villeneuve thread, maybe those maneuvres in the first lap warrant to start a thread of its own?;)

Zoe

prolly get trolled even more than this one already does.

everyone chooses to ignore anything which isnt negative anyway.

he probably "got lucky" at best to the trolls

#2797 aditya-now

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 13:18

Here is the start of the Valencia GP by Schumi, when he moved up from 15th to 11th place on the 1st lap.


Wonderful - that´s the kind of craftsmanship you would expect from a 7-time WDC!
Why not always like this?


Analog to the Villeneuve thread, maybe those maneuvres in the first lap warrant to start a thread of its own?;)

Zoe


Double no:

1.) Schumacher has never been such an exiting and at the same time fair driver like Jacques
2.) Jacques went from 8th to 1st, Schumi only from 15th to 11th. Spot the difference.


#2798 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 13:19

2.) Jacques went from 8th to 1st, Schumi only from 15th to 11th. Spot the difference.

in a club race? :)

Edited by MikeTekRacing, 02 July 2010 - 13:20.


#2799 RedBaron

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 13:22

in a club race? :)


haha exactly, superb post. :up:

Spot the difference.

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#2800 Dragonfly

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 14:28

1.) Schumacher has never been such an exiting and at the same time fair driver like Jacques
2.) Jacques went from 8th to 1st, Schumi only from 15th to 11th. Spot the difference.

That says it all really.