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#3001 Massa_f1

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 13:26

Check my sig, I was a big fan of Schumacher back in the day. Your right, something happened in S3- he screwed it up. As I said above, he still has some good pace but it's not on tap while it is for top drivers and like it was for Schumacher from 91-06.



Who Honesty expected him to be the Schumacher of old though?

I followed him since 95 and i did not expect him to come back and win.


Just glad he is on track. Just a shame he wasent in his 20's this time around.

Edited by Massa_f1, 10 July 2010 - 13:27.


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#3002 aditya-now

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 13:27

Not bad at all for Michael. Don't forget that a single lap without fuel is much different to a race starting with full tanks.
If we judge only by the grid position, Button must be fired immediately :)


Good for you MS fans that you have Button to blame for an even worse performance than MS.
If justifying and explaining does not work any more, use distraction! :yawnface:

#3003 Dragonfly

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 13:28

Yes, that´s the point, it annoys me that MS occupies Nick Heidfelds seat. At this form of Schumi there is no doubt what would have been the better driver choice for Merc.

What a shame.

Pleas hold your praise for Heidfeld or start a separate thread. We all know your agenda, we are in fact sick already of you constantly spoiling the thread.

#3004 ivand911

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 13:28

Michael lap from Q3 sectors were 1:30,9 , not bad. Just he didn't make one fast lap. Why they don't use in Qualy , sum from best sectors. If someone destroy your sector , he will not destroy your fast lap?

Edited by ivand911, 10 July 2010 - 13:29.


#3005 aditya-now

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 13:31

Pleas hold your praise for Heidfeld or start a separate thread. We all know your agenda, we are in fact sick already of you constantly spoiling the thread.


Well, dear one, this is not a Michael Schumacher appraisal thread, but intended, as the OP Sakae said:

Aim of this thread is to discuss issues related to Michael Schumacher. After Bahrain voices were heard about several weaknesses in his current cornering technique. It is my hope we can continue in that spirit, and check on him through the season.

I wish to welcome all, friends and also those ready for conversion as well.;)


So we were invited to check on him through the season. That´s what I am doing, I am checking back regularily.
And no, I am not ready for conversion yet.

If anything, maybe you guys should reevaluate your perspectives on Schumi....

#3006 eoin

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 13:32

Michael lap from Q3 sectors were 1:30,9 , not bad. Just he didn't make one fast lap. Why they don't use in Qualy , sum from best sectors. If someone destroy your sector , he will not destroy your fast lap?


Did you really just type that?!

#3007 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 13:33

Michael lap from Q3 sectors were 1:30,9 , not bad. Just he didn't make one fast lap. Why they don't use in Qualy , sum from best sectors. If someone destroy your sector , he will not destroy your fast lap?

:rolleyes:

#3008 dav115

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 13:34

This has all the hallmarks of a typical cock up weekend from MGP. No doubt Michael will pass Nico on track tomorrow, but as usual the team will screw his race for him. It's a shame Michael ran wide in turn 13 on his first hotlap, he was on fire through sectors 1 and 2, and the tyres just weren't capable of delivering another fast hotlap. Why MGP didn't put Schumacher on the same Q3 strategy as Rosberg I'll never know, but it's hardly surprising coming from this team given their recent success with Michael's strategy...Well done anyway to Nico, he did a fine job today.

Edited by dav115, 10 July 2010 - 13:38.


#3009 aditya-now

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 13:36

Pleas hold your praise for Heidfeld or start a separate thread. We all know your agenda, we are in fact sick already of you constantly spoiling the thread.


About starting a new Nick Heidfeld thread - I am keenly waiting to start one, and, who knows, maybe the opportunity will arise sooner than expected...


#3010 aditya-now

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 13:38

This has all the hallmarks of a typical cock up weekend from MGP. No doubt Michael will pass Nico on track tomorrow, but as usual the team will screw his race for him.


I get the feeling that´s the whole meaning of the 2010 season for Merc: they hired the greatest F1 driver of all times (according to statistics, that is) and now do all to constantly screw his races up.
The logic....


#3011 dav115

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 13:42

I get the feeling that´s the whole meaning of the 2010 season for Merc: they hired the greatest F1 driver of all times (according to statistics, that is) and now do all to constantly screw his races up.
The logic....

You're implying that I think Mercedes are DELIBERATELY screwing his races up, which I don't think for one minute is the case (though now you mention it, I'm sure there's a conspiracy theory to be made here with regards Mercedes sabotaging Schumacher in order to boost Rosberg's commercial value as part of their long term plan ;) ). However the evidence is irrevocable - Mercedes have completely ruined Michael's race more than enough times this season to warrant criticism.

#3012 Dragonfly

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 13:42

Well, dear one, this is not a Michael Schumacher appraisal thread, but intended, as the OP Sakae said:

Aim of this thread is to discuss issues related to Michael Schumacher. After Bahrain voices were heard about several weaknesses in his current cornering technique. It is my hope we can continue in that spirit, and check on him through the season.

I wish to welcome all, friends and also those ready for conversion as well.;)


So we were invited to check on him through the season. That´s what I am doing, I am checking back regularily.
And no, I am not ready for conversion yet.

If anything, maybe you guys should reevaluate your perspectives on Schumi....

Oh dear!
If the above was written by someone else. I'd agree. But can't accept it from a man who's here constantly only to bash and cry for MS being thrown out in favour of Mr "Nobody" Heidfeld.
As I and many others have already said numerous times, the real fans of MS do not expect miracles as we can imagine to an extent what a hard task is to come back after a long break and sit in a car that is absolutely different from what he used to drive before his retirement.
That's why anyone expecting him to sit and sweep the floor with the others is either deluding himself or is simply full of hatred using his current performance as an excuse to feed his meager soul.

Edited by Dragonfly, 10 July 2010 - 13:43.


#3013 eoin

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 13:47

You're implying that I think Mercedes are DELIBERATELY screwing his races up, which I don't think for one minute is the case (though now you mention it, I'm sure there's a conspiracy theory to be made here with regards Mercedes sabotaging Schumacher in order to boost Rosberg's commercial value as part of their long term plan ;) ). However the evidence is irrevocable - Mercedes have completely ruined Michael's race more than enough times this season to warrant criticism.


Mercedes have been rubbish this year, but today's disaster was all down to Schumacher.

#3014 dav115

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 13:47

Oh dear!
If the above was written by someone else. I'd agree. But can't accept it from a man who's here constantly only to bash and cry for MS being thrown out in favour of Mr "Nobody" Heidfeld.
As I and many others have already said numerous times, the real fans of MS do not expect miracles as we can imagine to an extent what a hard task is to come back after a long break and sit in a car that is absolutely different from what he used to drive before his retirement.
That's why anyone expecting him to sit and sweep the floor with the others is either deluding himself or is simply full of hatred using his current performance as an excuse to feed his meager soul.

According to the ITV qualy buildup, De La Rosa said it will take a full season for himself and Michael to get to grips with the new generation of cars. I'll take his word over and of these bashers' words.

#3015 dav115

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 13:52

Mercedes have been rubbish this year, but today's disaster was all down to Schumacher.

Correct, although had Mercedes put Michael on the same strategy as Rosberg then he would have had another shot at a hotlap. You are right though, this was no excuse for Schumacher running wide at the end of his one and only hotlap. I'm actually quite confident for Schumacher's race tomorrow, and I'm going to put my neck on the line and say he'll have made up a good few places just on the first lap. Whether or not he'll avoid having his race ruined by the MGP strategy department I'm not so confident.

#3016 aditya-now

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 13:52

From Urban Dictionary:

1. schumacher

A term given to someone when they're so annoyingly good at something, it takes all the fun out of it for everyone else.
Jimmy - "Do you fancy a game of footy down the park?"

Ted - "Yeah, that would be ace, shall I give Bob a call and see if he wants to come?"

Jimmy - "Nah, that Bobs a ****ing Schumacher, he'll ruin it for everyone!!"


Those were the days....


#3017 aditya-now

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 13:54

You're implying that I think Mercedes are DELIBERATELY screwing his races up, which I don't think for one minute is the case (though now you mention it, I'm sure there's a conspiracy theory to be made here with regards Mercedes sabotaging Schumacher in order to boost Rosberg's commercial value as part of their long term plan ;) ). However the evidence is irrevocable - Mercedes have completely ruined Michael's race more than enough times this season to warrant criticism.


That I agree with, and I really don´t get it - after all, look how immaculate the team performed as Brawn GP last year for most of the time. Nowadays no single races passes without a single cock-up...


#3018 dav115

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 13:55

Those were the days....

:rotfl:

#3019 ivand911

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 14:06

Best strategy for Michael would be to start on hards from 10th place(much better than starting with softs from 10th). But who thinks for Michael?

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#3020 GoRacing

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 14:08

I dont know why you keep saying that MS should start on hards, dont you know the rules, he has to start the race on the tyres he set his fastest Q3 time which is SOFTS.

#3021 man

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 14:09

Best strategy for m Schumacher is to try and drive quicker than he is.

#3022 ivand911

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 14:11

Yes , but he could use hards in Q3 instead of softs(he can't finish worst than 10th)? In lap 8-9 all go to the pit and he is 3rd-4th. And to change his tires 4-5 lap before the end of the race.

Edited by ivand911, 10 July 2010 - 14:13.


#3023 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 14:13

He cannot change the tires he qualified on. So softs it is.

I hope he has a good start/first lap again.

Edited by Diablobb81, 10 July 2010 - 14:13.


#3024 ivand911

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 14:16

If he put his fast lap in Q3 with hards, then it is hards for the race? I mean not to use softs in Q3, why he need them(softs) when he finish 10th.

Edited by ivand911, 10 July 2010 - 14:17.


#3025 merschu

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 14:16

Michael Schumacher interview with Jake Humphrey while driving to Silverstone.



#3026 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 14:21

If he put his fast lap in Q3 with hards, then it is hards for the race? I mean not to use softs in Q3, why he need them(softs) when he finish 10th.


He made his run on the softs. He had a chance for a place near Rosberg but he couldn't get a good lap.


But i won't even bother to try to understand Merc strat anymore. If iirc correctly Rosberg had his good lap on the first run. In the end of q3 the track was overcrowded and the chances for a good lap were smaller. If Schumi had only one try why didn't they send him out earlier? If it wouldn't have worked out they could have at least tried a run on hards.

#3027 ivand911

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 14:30

I think we have wrong expectations for Michael. Maybe Team is giving him other targets. He need to support Nico because he have more points and to bring some points home. It will be nice somebody to ask team what are the targets for Michael for this season? Because we expect something which is not his target, then will never happen. Can he race Nico? From his last move from Valencia he can, but "unnecessary" stop happen. Still Q3 was good for him, improvement from last two races. Just expected more, P6 was plausible from his 1:30.9 lap. Hope Bari and DLR will be easy tomorrow. Kubica and Massa will overtake Nico and they both will be close together.

Edited by ivand911, 10 July 2010 - 14:32.


#3028 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 14:31

They already said that they are using MSC as a guinea pig for testing.

#3029 rog

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 14:48

He made his run on the softs. He had a chance for a place near Rosberg but he couldn't get a good lap.


But i won't even bother to try to understand Merc strat anymore. If iirc correctly Rosberg had his good lap on the first run. In the end of q3 the track was overcrowded and the chances for a good lap were smaller. If Schumi had only one try why didn't they send him out earlier? If it wouldn't have worked out they could have at least tried a run on hards.



No Rosbergs best lap was his final lap at the end of Q3. But his first Q3 lap would be enough for P5. The strategy with only one try was Schumachers own decision together with the team, but he screwed it up with a mistake in his lap.

#3030 George Costanza

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 16:22

Who Honesty expected him to be the Schumacher of old though?

I followed him since 95 and i did not expect him to come back and win.


Just glad he is on track. Just a shame he wasent in his 20's this time around.



Yeah, I think too many people expected the consistent magic of the late 1990s with Ferrari in a subpar car (compared to Williams and McLaren). That Schu did not take 3 years off, the rules didn't change as often and that was prime of his life.



#3031 GoRacing

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 16:27

I sincerely pray and hope he makes it past de la Rosa and Reubens at the start. If not, his race is ruined. He needs to get past both to keep up with Massa, Kubica and Nico.

#3032 ivand911

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 16:36

He have enough space to do it, to the second corner. But he is on the dirty side of the track. Don't think DLR is fast starter. Will be interesting at the start,first lap will be crucial. They are also fast at pit stops, to overtake the guy in front of him.

#3033 jimm

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 21:52

Die hard fan of anything doesn't overide commonsense.
In the end, we know nothing, MS and Brawn are smart guys, MS has a 3 year contract, and he has a habbit of making people look like idiots, so come back with your opinions after his next retirement and we'll see how 2010 panned out in his full mercedes career which hasn't gotten off to a good start, but present and past performance is no indication of future success, had MS set his valancia fastest laps in the first 3 races and in china no one would of said anything, the signs are there, the team isn't together. And Rosberg hasn't won a race in his career, Trulli looked good in 2004, HHF in 1999, Rosberg can't be judged at this early stage either, I'm a long term thinker, in f1 where webber has been written off, along with Button, who have won ttitles and races and resurrected their profiles, it would be silly to jump to conclusions on MS, it's smart to wait out, rather then rush in talking about a team and a driver that hasn't told us much about their issues, who are we compared to Ross Brawn and MS.



Sean,

His fasest laps in Valancia came after a late pitstop (read light fuel load) on new tires. Long term thinker or not, the odds are that at the end of what ever session it is, Rosberg is a great majority of the time faster. That is not down to the car which now is supposed to be to MS's liking (ie long wheel base) as they both use the same equipment.

Your arguement was that the car was a puzzle that even the team that designed it could not figure out. My point is that Rosberg has done a better job in figuring it out than MS...Saying "if you put him in the best car of the grid he would look better" is fan boy logic as it would apply to everyone...and given the RELATIVE performance, Rosberg would use it better.

Besides, what makes you think if MS can't handle Rosberg who, as you have pointed out, has not won anything at this level, he could handle Vettel or Webber?

#3034 arknor

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 22:12

They already said that they are using MSC as a guinea pig for testing.

yea he uses far more soft tyres than nico does every race... is his job just to find a setup base for nico or something :rolleyes:

hopefully some of this guinea pig testing is helping to mould next years car so its not another brick on wheels with a stupidly limited setup range because the balance is all wrong

#3035 GoRacing

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 23:11

I said earlier, he should not have gone out again in Q2, he was comfortably in, wasted a set of softs by doing that.

#3036 RSNS

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 23:28

Michael Schumacher interview with Jake Humphrey while driving to Silverstone.


Very interesting interview. Schumacher is still fully committed; if he feels he cannot win he will quit. He is still convinced that he can win (but not this year, although he expected as much), and the main trouble is understanding the tires.

It seemed a straightforward, honest, interview.

I also understand why, in RTL, he said he was back – in fact, for a few laps, for a few times, he really was back; but then it misfired. Another time, then.


#3037 aditya-now

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 23:31

Michael Schumacher interview with Jake Humphrey while driving to Silverstone.


Excellent interview, thanks for the link.

When the going gets tough, the tough get going. Let´s see if Michael follows up his words with deeds...

#3038 MCh000

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 09:53

Very interesting interview. Schumacher is still fully committed; if he feels he cannot win he will quit. He is still convinced that he can win (but not this year, although he expected as much), and the main trouble is understanding the tires.

It seemed a straightforward, honest, interview.

I also understand why, in RTL, he said he was back – in fact, for a few laps, for a few times, he really was back; but then it misfired. Another time, then.


While for other drivers the changes in F1 cars is evolution, for Michael after three years it is a revolution and here comes the biggest problem at his age - he is unwilling to change himself. After three years of absence at age of 41 he comes back to F1 and have to completely change his driving style. But he is not a young gun who is ready to go with whatever has wheels. After more than 10 years having had the car to his liking, now he has a car that he can't setup as he wants and have to change his driving style completely. Being a sprinter who was pushing the car to the limits all the time, now, I think, he sees the car (including tires) as being very fragile as the whole package. He doesn't even go aggressively over the kerbs. All this is against his nature and, having in mind his age, he is unconsciously resisting the changes.

So I think this year is done. And Michael nows it. And since all Brown's (except one) and Michael's championship wins were working together both need each other and next year will be the one when they will develop car together. And we will see where really stands Michael concerning the speed.

#3039 ivand911

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 10:03

I have some doubts team will have better car next year. Michael in the end is not designing the car. They think this year car will be good, but is not. What car they will design with 400 people, when other teams are using more(550-800people). This is not great start for a car.

Edited by ivand911, 11 July 2010 - 10:03.


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#3040 MCh000

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 10:34

I have some doubts team will have better car next year. Michael in the end is not designing the car. They think this year car will be good, but is not. What car they will design with 400 people, when other teams are using more(550-800people). This is not great start for a car.


The car maybe not be better compared to other cars in terms of speed, however it might be night and day compared to this year's car in terms of handling on the track and work with tires so drivers are capable at least to setup it to their liking. However I believe the next year's car will be overall better. I think Brown has hired Michael not because of sentiments but because he knows very well that last year's car won due to the diffuser and this won't happen again, so he needs a one more man who knows the taste of the victory and knows what it takes to win a race - and Michael knows it. Remember that already during winter tests Michael said that we are in trouble and he wasn't wrong. So remaining races for Michael should be like testing sessions with conclusions and assumptions for next year car's development since testing is banned.

#3041 Victor

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 10:37

I found this Niki Lauda interview on MS return very interesting:

http://www.grandprix...ft/ft22405.html


#3042 wrcva

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 11:39

I found this Niki Lauda interview on MS return very interesting:

http://www.grandprix...ft/ft22405.html


-- Lauda's conclusion is interesting;

"... if you are a straightforward racing driver you should always see your limits. You have to be objective and not come up with any bullshit. If the little French frog drives the same car quicker than me, then I'm doing something wrong because I should be able to do the same.

And it's a similar situation that Michael is living now. Nico is currently quicker, but he believes there are technical reasons for that: the front tyres don't suit his driving style, the car doesn't suit his driving style and all that. If Michael gets everything he wants from the team, the car and the tyres for next year and then Nico is still quicker than him in 2011 then he'll retire. No question about it. If Nico still blows him away, as this year, he'll either go of his own free will or Mercedes will fire him - one of the two will happen!"




#3043 ZooL

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 11:49

-- Lauda's conclusion is interesting;

"... if you are a straightforward racing driver you should always see your limits. You have to be objective and not come up with any bullshit. If the little French frog drives the same car quicker than me, then I'm doing something wrong because I should be able to do the same.

And it's a similar situation that Michael is living now. Nico is currently quicker, but he believes there are technical reasons for that: the front tyres don't suit his driving style, the car doesn't suit his driving style and all that. If Michael gets everything he wants from the team, the car and the tyres for next year and then Nico is still quicker than him in 2011 then he'll retire. No question about it. If Nico still blows him away, as this year, he'll either go of his own free will or Mercedes will fire him - one of the two will happen!"

In the background yeah he could be fired, but to us mere mortals we will never be told that - they would never treat him like that publically.

All we will be told is he left of his own free will.

#3044 Massa_f1

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 11:52

In the background yeah he could be fired, but to us mere mortals we will never be told that - they would never treat him like that publically.

All we will be told is he left of his own free will.


Like Ferrari 2006 all over again  ;)

#3045 dav115

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 12:28

Great, pit him so he comes out right behind Kobayashi. Meanwhile they kept Rosberg out knowing that Kubica would pit, and now Rosberg is in clear air.

#3046 RedBaron

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 12:29

I give up on this team I really do. Brought Schumacher in way too early. Lost a position to Sauber, now he'll be stuck behind him for ages if not the entire race.

They could see the hard tyre sucked, look at Vettel v Webber's pace, absolutely useless decision!

Fair enough Schumacher qualified down in a lower position, but he had made up ground and it's now all for nothing. Long race, but...

Edited by RedBaron, 11 July 2010 - 12:31.


#3047 eoin

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 12:31

I give up on this team I really do. Brought Schumacher in way too early. Lost a position to Sauber, now he'll be stuck behind him for ages if not the entire race.

They could see the hard tyre sucked, look at Vettel v Webber's pace, absolutely useless decision!


He lost the position because he did a terrible lap and lost a ton of time in S3, nothing to do with the team this weekend. Hopefully Brawn will sit him down at the end of the season and tell him some home truths.

#3048 MCh000

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 12:31

Briliant strategy for Michael again :lol:

I mean WTF???

#3049 GoRacing

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 12:47

Yes, he came in way too early. But he did a poor out lap and lost a lot of time, lost positions to Button and Kobayashi. I was expecting he would jump Reubens during the pit stop.

#3050 RedBaron

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 12:49

Yes, he came in way too early. But he did a poor out lap and lost a lot of time, lost positions to Button and Kobayashi. I was expecting he would jump Reubens during the pit stop.



Button was on fire, I think that position was lost either way. Good drive by Button so far.