Jump to content


Photo

Michael Schumacher (merged)


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
20789 replies to this topic

#3101 man

man
  • Member

  • 1,301 posts
  • Joined: October 01

Posted 11 July 2010 - 14:49

OK we get it ,he is led balloon. When you will get it, some of us don't care.


Well don't care then. :-)

Advertisement

#3102 SeanValen

SeanValen
  • Member

  • 16,933 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 11 July 2010 - 15:29

It seems tyres are still a huge huge factor for his performances.
He´s struggling to get them in the right (termperature) window, which leads to poor qualifiyings and poor performance after SC and his tyre wear is too high.






Were the softs actually the tyres to have, the same tyres MS used too much of in qualifying. The hard tyres which MS has used alot this year were not the ones that were gonna be used well for the GP.

I did realise Schumacher without the quali error in Q3 may have been up there, and the hard tyres MS pitted for, which didn't give him the speed to keep positions didn't warm up in time, and that cost him. Thus Schumacher probabley tried too hard on the hard tyres once he knew they were not fast enough warming up.

I really think the tyre situation next year, if the tyres can be made to go off more will alow Schumacher to fight things on track more with attack sprinting mode of old. The differences between soft and hard are not clear cut on weekends and temperatures can go either way.

But the key area where the weekend was lost, was Q3, that quali error and using alot of soft tyres which normally hasn't been the tyres MS has been good on this year, looking at the race, the hard tyres in general weren't the ones to have, MS with hindsight would of been better off quali on hard tyres, but with tyre suppilier changing next year, it could change things and everything he is trying to learn this year may be only for this year for the tyres.


Had race day been more hotter, the hard tyre likely would of come into play, but it was one of those weekends where Michael had to utilise the soft tyres beginning with a Q3 result that didn't come, then his usual hard tyre performance was let down by slightly cooler then expected temperature on track. He has got too use the soft tyres and get them to work when he needs them, whether that's possible with the current chassic/his style of driving, not sure, but he and Brawn likely know.




New chassis for him for Spa. He wanted it earlier.


Where did you get that from?





Edited by SeanValen, 11 July 2010 - 15:42.


#3103 eoin

eoin
  • Member

  • 5,010 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 11 July 2010 - 15:33

According to Pedro de La Rosa, 1 year. Although of course the new tyres next year should level the playing field.


These tyres were new to everyone this year. De La Rosa was just serving his own agenda with that comment.

This will be my last post on this subject. I have made plenty of posts in defense of Schumacher this year with most of them based on reason but if I were to defend his current form it would be based on emotion, not reason. I refuse to be a poster that blindly defends a driver even when it's clear that the driver no longer possess the tools to consistently compete at the front of the grid.

I hope the man proves me wrong... time will tell!

Edited by eoin, 11 July 2010 - 15:34.


#3104 GoRacing

GoRacing
  • Member

  • 291 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 11 July 2010 - 15:44

I think this is the first race that MS seemed genuinely disappointed with his driving and the result. Previous races were mostly the team's fault with poor strategy, but this race could have been so much better but for too many mistakes he made. Q3 was a disaster and then he could have jumped Reubens but again made a mistake which put him behind Kobayashi as well. I starting to not expect improvement from him this season (and I'm one of his biggest fans).

#3105 arknor

arknor
  • Member

  • 2,298 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 11 July 2010 - 15:48

I think this is the first race that MS seemed genuinely disappointed with his driving and the result. Previous races were mostly the team's fault with poor strategy, but this race could have been so much better but for too many mistakes he made. Q3 was a disaster and then he could have jumped Reubens but again made a mistake which put him behind Kobayashi as well. I starting to not expect improvement from him this season (and I'm one of his biggest fans).

still dont understand why he pitted so early most people this season who benefit are the ones that stay out long

#3106 MCh000

MCh000
  • Member

  • 181 posts
  • Joined: August 00

Posted 11 July 2010 - 15:50

New chassis for him for Spa. He wanted it earlier.


For Rosberg?

#3107 rog

rog
  • Member

  • 907 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 11 July 2010 - 15:51

For Rosberg?



For Schumacher.

#3108 dav115

dav115
  • Member

  • 716 posts
  • Joined: August 08

Posted 11 July 2010 - 16:02

These tyres were new to everyone this year. De La Rosa was just serving his own agenda with that comment.

This will be my last post on this subject. I have made plenty of posts in defense of Schumacher this year with most of them based on reason but if I were to defend his current form it would be based on emotion, not reason. I refuse to be a poster that blindly defends a driver even when it's clear that the driver no longer possess the tools to consistently compete at the front of the grid.

I hope the man proves me wrong... time will tell!

Correct, though they are much more different to the grooved tyres that Schumacher and De la Rosa last raced on. To be honest I think Michael underestimated how much of an impact the testing ban would have on his learning of the tyres/new regulations this year. If he were able to spend days doing lap after lap round Fiorano (though obviously not possible being at Mercedes) like he used to then I think he'd have destroyed Rosberg by now, but as it is this season has been his test sessions, if you like, in that it's been the only way in which he can learn the tyres. I think this weekend's poor result was ultimately down to Michael making mistakes in sector three twice where it counted (on his Q3 hotlap, and on his pitstop outlap), and I'm glad Michael had the balls to admit that live on camera on the BBC. I do, however, think that Mercedes need to address this ridiculous situation in which Michael and Nico are being put on completely different strategies (in Q3 where they were both matched on pace in Q2, and in the race where they were both matched on pace in the first phase of the race), because it's clearly paying off negatively for Michael every time.

To the posted that mentioned a new chassis for Spa, where did you get this from? I may be wrong here but after the Spanish GP in which Schumacher ran a new chassis (and comfortably outpaced Nico), didn't Mercedes switch Michael BACK to the previously damaged chassis (though obviously they had tried to repair it) he had used in China and before? I'm not trying to make excuses, but surely it might be worth giving him the new chassis, even if the benefit is only psychological?

#3109 Diablobb81

Diablobb81
  • Member

  • 3,523 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 11 July 2010 - 16:03

Where did you get that from?


From Schumi's interview with RTL.

He wanted the new chassis earlier, but it will only be finished for Spa.

Edited by Diablobb81, 11 July 2010 - 16:03.


#3110 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 11 July 2010 - 16:38

He was unlucky with safety car. Without SC he could finish 7th. Sutil was 5-6 sec. behind, Vettel was 37sec. back. It wasn't only his mistake.
http://twitpic.com/24fjdd

Edited by ivand911, 11 July 2010 - 17:24.


#3111 scarletf12002

scarletf12002
  • Member

  • 77 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 11 July 2010 - 16:51

Schumacher's words, his fault after the pit stop... that's settled then! Still a bad choice by him and his team to bring him in that early.



what interview?


#3112 RedBaron

RedBaron
  • Member

  • 2,788 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 11 July 2010 - 17:12

what interview?



With the BBC, I forget exactly what he said, something about taking too much kerb and losing time in one corner.

Edited by RedBaron, 11 July 2010 - 17:12.


#3113 F1Champion

F1Champion
  • Member

  • 2,924 posts
  • Joined: September 01

Posted 11 July 2010 - 17:17

I think that some people need to consider that pitting isn't always the drivers choice. Alot of teams tell the driver to pit, because the pit wall has more access to the lap times and tyre sensors. Only in the wet does a driver have more say. Don't McLaren tell their drivers to "box" this lap etc.

If Mercedes pitted Michael early it would of been up to them because they could of just of easily left Michael out like Rosberg. Instead they thought that they could overtake with fresh tyres and it didn't work out.

#3114 rog

rog
  • Member

  • 907 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 11 July 2010 - 17:24

It didn't worked because Schumacher made a mistake.

Edited by rog, 11 July 2010 - 17:40.


#3115 GoRacing

GoRacing
  • Member

  • 291 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 11 July 2010 - 17:27

still dont understand why he pitted so early most people this season who benefit are the ones that stay out long


RB said that MS had asked that he pit because he was stuck in traffic so they wanted to get him into clean air and give him the best chance to get in front of Reubens. He made a mistake and ruined the strategy.

#3116 arknor

arknor
  • Member

  • 2,298 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 11 July 2010 - 18:48

RB said that MS had asked that he pit because he was stuck in traffic so they wanted to get him into clean air and give him the best chance to get in front of Reubens. He made a mistake and ruined the strategy.

he may have been stuck in traffic but it wasnt slow traffic the pack he was in was gaining on some of the people in front

#3117 mursuka80

mursuka80
  • Member

  • 5,106 posts
  • Joined: March 07

Posted 11 July 2010 - 18:57

From Schumi's interview with RTL.

He wanted the new chassis earlier, but it will only be finished for Spa.


Will Nico get a new one too,because you know,he is 54 points ahead.

#3118 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 11 July 2010 - 19:10

Maybe Nico ,don't want to change his lucky chassis? Michael could take it quickly if Nico don't want it.

Edited by ivand911, 11 July 2010 - 19:11.


#3119 aditya-now

aditya-now
  • Member

  • 7,042 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 11 July 2010 - 19:56

Whatever, I stick by my prediction that the driver he once was will come out some day this season, once or twice. Who knows maybe tomorrow already. But as for a season-long WDC challenge, I just can't see it, no way.


You got it right, so far, as65p!

The only time MS showed qualities of old is when he overtook Alonso in the last lap in Monaco. For the rest I haven´t seen the driver he once was.


Advertisement

#3120 aditya-now

aditya-now
  • Member

  • 7,042 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 11 July 2010 - 19:58

Will Nico get a new one too,because you know,he is 54 points ahead.


Nah, Merc don´t work in the way Red Bull work - Schumi will get the chassis of course, not Nico!



#3121 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 27,373 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 11 July 2010 - 19:58

For Schumacher.


I thought he had already had a new one.

#3122 aditya-now

aditya-now
  • Member

  • 7,042 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 11 July 2010 - 20:04

The interesting thing is this isn't a case of Nelson Piquet from 1988 onwards I.e no motivation happy with the money sort of driver, M Schumacher desperately wants to win and more importantly beat his teammate Rosberg. But he doesn't have the ability to do so. A good driver can adapt and M Schumacher seems to be making little or no impression on Rosberg since the start of 2010. As Lauda says he justifies it to himself that he needs more time to adapt but how much time ? I think he has had plenty and if anything Rosberg is going to improve further. His historical status is going down like a led balloon. It would be different if lived the playboy lifestyle of Piquet who you always felt had the talent but just couldn't be bothered. M Schumacher wants it badly and when he realises he hasn't got what it takes it will hurt.


Well observed.

Funnily enough Nelson still won three races in 1990/91 - even with his playboy lifestyle.
Michael sincerely tries and looks sharp and sincere in his interview with Jake Humphrey, but he just doesn´t cut it anymore.

Sad to see, I stay with my words from early January: Hopefully Schumacher will not regret his comeback.


#3123 sosidge

sosidge
  • Member

  • 1,646 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 11 July 2010 - 21:39

Well observed.

Funnily enough Nelson still won three races in 1990/91 - even with his playboy lifestyle.
Michael sincerely tries and looks sharp and sincere in his interview with Jake Humphrey, but he just doesn´t cut it anymore.

Sad to see, I stay with my words from early January: Hopefully Schumacher will not regret his comeback.


I don't think he will.

As I observed at the start of the season, he has re-cast himself as the "friendly uncle" of the pitlane, a man who is "really enjoying" being part of the F1 project.

So, the fact that he can no longer maintain his ruthless competitiveness, as he could in his first career, does not affect him. In public, he is not allowing himself to be cast as a man with grand personal ambition. So he has no fear of shame. In private, his fist-waving and finger pointing after certain sessions shows that he still is.

What most surprises me is how little people seem to care that he is uncompetitive. There is a new generation in F1 now, Schumacher is a relic, and when you realise that he was the least impressive of that train of four German drivers battling for 7th, it seems strangely irrelevant.

So, his comeback will be forgotten. Unless he does a Coulthard and starts to take people off the track.

#3124 dav115

dav115
  • Member

  • 716 posts
  • Joined: August 08

Posted 11 July 2010 - 22:33

I've just read something that's really shocked me over on the planet f1 forum. Can anyone who was listening to the 5 live commentary confirm whether this is true?

Interestingly, during the free practise sessions Croft and Davidson were talking about the simulators the teams use, and Davidson said Schumi can't use the simulator because it makes him physically sick (induced motion sickness I guess).

Since then I wondered if he is struggling because he can't develop a tchnique for these cars in the way other drivers can.

We all know how vital the simulator is with this testing ban (see McLaren's interesting weekend with the ditching of the blown diffuser). I can't believe this hasn't been brought up elsewhere if true :/ .

#3125 Anssi

Anssi
  • Member

  • 1,899 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 11 July 2010 - 22:40

Kimi Räikkönen becomes sick in a simulator too. See my earlier post on this subject - just look at my posting history and you'll find it. I offer some opinion on why it is happening.

#3126 aditya-now

aditya-now
  • Member

  • 7,042 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 11 July 2010 - 22:53

Kimi Räikkönen becomes sick in a simulator too. See my earlier post on this subject - just look at my posting history and you'll find it. I offer some opinion on why it is happening.


And what is that opinion you are offering?

#3127 dav115

dav115
  • Member

  • 716 posts
  • Joined: August 08

Posted 11 July 2010 - 22:59

And what is that opinion you are offering?

http://forums.autosp...p;#entry4039748

#3128 arknor

arknor
  • Member

  • 2,298 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 11 July 2010 - 23:01

And what is that opinion you are offering?

his opinions is that schumacher and kimis reaction times are to fast and the input delay on a simulator makes them sick which i find BS tbh.

its probably something else entirely alot of old pc games of the past like quake III would make certain people dizzy if they played for more than a few minutes and i dont think it had anything to do with reaction times or perception

#3129 dav115

dav115
  • Member

  • 716 posts
  • Joined: August 08

Posted 11 July 2010 - 23:29

I'm not a medic so I can't really comment on how accurate those reaction times/motion sickness claims are. I do, however, know that not being able to use the simulator in this age of the testing ban is an absolute DISASTER for any driver, let alone one making a return to the sport after a three year absence. This seriously puts him at a disadvantage to Rosberg, because at the end of the day, there's no substitute in F1 for testing (or in this case the next best thing, simulator time), and if true this has certainly justified to me why he is taking so long to get to grips with the current generation of cars. Genuine question - is there not some kind of medicine one can take in order to combat motion sickness?

#3130 Anssi

Anssi
  • Member

  • 1,899 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 11 July 2010 - 23:46

There is actually a more recent post than that... well, the point is that they have a very sensitive sense of coordination. It is what a doctor has said about Kimi, that he is special in this respect, that THIS is why he is a "natural talent".

I don't think it's bullshit at all that someone with more sensitive 'senses' will be more prone to feel sick if they use a simulator, because the simulator is just that, a simulator, and not real, it CHEATS! There is a delay between what the user of the simulator does and what he sees and feels happen, and people with 'numb' senses don't necessarily notice that at all, but someone more sensitive will notice it, and it can cause their brains to go confused about it. The brains notice it is not right, it is not natural, therefore the person becomes sick. The brains expect it to be natural and rightly so because in nature we live. Someone numb don't notice a thing and therefore cannot become sick because of this. How can you say this theory is bullshit is difficult to fathom.

Edited by Anssi, 11 July 2010 - 23:51.


#3131 arknor

arknor
  • Member

  • 2,298 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 12 July 2010 - 00:09

There is a delay between what the user of the simulator does and what he sees and feels happen, and people with 'numb' senses don't necessarily notice that at all

then they need to get some good old CRT monitors in for schumacher and the delay wouldnt be noticeable.

if they are using huge ass tft screens or whatever then yea the delay and ghosting effect will be noticeable to certain people on a crt screen that refreshs at silly speeds it wouldnt be noticeable.

#3132 iakhtar

iakhtar
  • Member

  • 183 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 12 July 2010 - 00:19

It's probably super secret but is there any footage of any of the teams actual simulator running? Would be awesome to see.

#3133 arknor

arknor
  • Member

  • 2,298 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 12 July 2010 - 00:31

It's probably super secret but is there any footage of any of the teams actual simulator running? Would be awesome to see.

bbc have webber doing a lap in te simulator at each race

nico in the williams simulator

heres a good one mark blundell driving the williams simulator

Edited by arknor, 12 July 2010 - 00:36.


#3134 iakhtar

iakhtar
  • Member

  • 183 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 12 July 2010 - 00:43

Thx for links :)

#3135 scarletf12002

scarletf12002
  • Member

  • 77 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 12 July 2010 - 07:38

I'm not a medic so I can't really comment on how accurate those reaction times/motion sickness claims are. I do, however, know that not being able to use the simulator in this age of the testing ban is an absolute DISASTER for any driver, let alone one making a return to the sport after a three year absence. This seriously puts him at a disadvantage to Rosberg, because at the end of the day, there's no substitute in F1 for testing (or in this case the next best thing, simulator time), and if true this has certainly justified to me why he is taking so long to get to grips with the current generation of cars. Genuine question - is there not some kind of medicine one can take in order to combat motion sickness?



Most travel sickness meds cause drowsiness, so that wud not be particularly helpful when driving! I finding it interesting that no one at MGP has used that as an excuse yet cos its a pretty good one but I guess it shows their true nature, most people wud have used that by now. That means only he drives the car is at race weekends, there is no way that is enough time to get back back up to speed! It like only playing tennis when u turn up at Wimbledon, you aint gonna win that way.

#3136 peroa

peroa
  • Member

  • 8,927 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 12 July 2010 - 07:46

I'm not a medic so I can't really comment on how accurate those reaction times/motion sickness claims are. I do, however, know that not being able to use the simulator in this age of the testing ban is an absolute DISASTER for any driver, let alone one making a return to the sport after a three year absence. This seriously puts him at a disadvantage to Rosberg, because at the end of the day, there's no substitute in F1 for testing (or in this case the next best thing, simulator time), and if true this has certainly justified to me why he is taking so long to get to grips with the current generation of cars. Genuine question - is there not some kind of medicine one can take in order to combat motion sickness?



I have the same problem, I can't play shooter games like quake, Medal of honour and similar for more than 15 min. I get really sick and my stomach gets so upset that basically my whole day is ruined.
I can play rFactor, GTR for much longer but it also happens just not that frequently. I noticed that an empty stomach is a guarantee to get sick very early.

When I was a child I would get sick almost every time we were going somewhere with the car.

#3137 Arion

Arion
  • Member

  • 2,353 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 12 July 2010 - 08:21

When I was a child I would get sick almost every time we were going somewhere with the car.


My grandma still has that problem, that's why she prefers the bicycles.
I sort of had the same problem as a child, but isn't it the kinda things that go away when you grow up? I've heard it's because your stomach gets used to the rhythm of the motion.

#3138 Urawa

Urawa
  • Member

  • 1,135 posts
  • Joined: August 08

Posted 12 July 2010 - 08:30

If the simulator story is true, it´ll be tough for him to improve.
We´ve seen that with Raikkonen/Heidfeld in 08 how hard it is when you´re on the back foot with the tyres (and we stilll had in-season testing back there)

#3139 mkoscevic

mkoscevic
  • Member

  • 641 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 12 July 2010 - 08:50

If the simulator story is true, it´ll be tough for him to improve.


I believe it's down to sophistication of the simulator which determines deepness of technical problems you can seriously work on there. It's almost certain that Mercedes doesn't have a very advanced simulator back at Brackley.

Advertisement

#3140 aditya-now

aditya-now
  • Member

  • 7,042 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 12 July 2010 - 09:10

http://forums.autosp...p;#entry4039748


Thanks, dav115, for the link!

#3141 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 12 July 2010 - 11:37

Is Michael fast or slow? We can find out if he could drive car he driven before 2006, on the track he has recorded time and with the same tires and else. What will mean if he is faster there(making the same times)? This will not happen.But this why you can say if he lose it or not. In the GP2 test this year he was 0,4sec from the lap record. And the test was in the winter. Usually he do very well on Champions race , only Matias Ekstrom beat him twice. Sorry there is not much other F1 drivers, but last time he finish ahead of Button and Vettel and DC. You have to be slow to do that. Yes, Michael have problem with this year MGP car, he is "slower" than Nico and have less points. But this is him having problem with the car, not being slow. If you are not comfortable with the car you will not be fast. This will tell you every GP driver.

Edited by ivand911, 12 July 2010 - 11:42.


#3142 Muz Bee

Muz Bee
  • Member

  • 2,531 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 12 July 2010 - 11:48

Is Michael fast or slow? We can find out if he could drive car he driven before 2006, on the track he has recorded time and with the same tires and else. This will not happen. But this why you can say if he lose it or not. In the GP2 test this year he was 0,4sec from the lap record. And the test was in the winter. Usually he do very well on Champions race , only Matias Ekstrom beat him twice. Sorry there is not much other F1 drivers, but last time he finish ahead of Button and Vettel and DC. You have to be slow to do that. Yes, Michael have problem with this year MGP car, he is "slower" than Nico and have less points. But this is him having problem with the car, not being slow. If you are not comfortable with the car you will not be fast. This will tell you every GP driver.

Is this just what you WANT to believe or based on clear and calm, unbiased reasoning?

Great drivers have the ability to go two ways - develop and setup the car to their liking, and failing all efforts to gain the fix to drive around the problem. The latter will have limited long term benefits, the former will lead to strong forward direction in the team's engineering and understanding. Nico seems to be leading the team now and that will perhaps gradually drive the development in his direction. 90 points to 36 at halfway is too hard to ignore for all but the diehard Schumacher fans and certainly for the team's technical crew. It's universally accepted in pitlane that the Mercedes is around the 4th/5th best car so to have 3 podiums is an exceptional performance, maybe we need to accept that Michael has his toughest ever teammate by a margin, and that he is struggling to adapt to the current era of racing.

#3143 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 12 July 2010 - 12:08

What I just said. But still Michael lose a lot of points this year. He was in points scoring position in how many races? If I calculate how much he lost he could be with 80 points or more. As understand you don't know what word luck mean? This thing don't exist for you. I remember how some strong teams perform last year. How he is fast in GP2 and Race of Champions? They are all great drivers and can adopt fast to the cars there. But he beat them. It will be nice to see him against Nico in ROC this year in Germany. From one point we stop discussing how is the car now? They make some changes and what is result? How is balance ,WD ,Nico is still 4 kg lighter. Yes he have problem with this car. This car. Points mean something only if you didn't see the races. I see the races, I see him losing points in Australia(hit), Malaysia(wheel), Monaco(penalty), Canada(tire), Valencia(pit), Silverstone(mistake,SC). Maybe I miss some race. Alonso have almost the same points like Nico then we can assume they are equal? Massa is slower driver than Nico with less points. "Domenicali: Ferrari must be cursed at the moment" How stupid he have to be to say something like that? Or maybe Michael is cursed at the moment? With number 3. I think Nico visited some lady gipsy early this year. They make him spell. :rotfl:

Edited by ivand911, 12 July 2010 - 12:37.


#3144 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

Ferrari_F1_fan_2001
  • Member

  • 3,027 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 12 July 2010 - 20:12

Is this just what you WANT to believe or based on clear and calm, unbiased reasoning?

Great drivers have the ability to go two ways - develop and setup the car to their liking, and failing all efforts to gain the fix to drive around the problem. The latter will have limited long term benefits, the former will lead to strong forward direction in the team's engineering and understanding. Nico seems to be leading the team now and that will perhaps gradually drive the development in his direction. 90 points to 36 at halfway is too hard to ignore for all but the diehard Schumacher fans and certainly for the team's technical crew. It's universally accepted in pitlane that the Mercedes is around the 4th/5th best car so to have 3 podiums is an exceptional performance, maybe we need to accept that Michael has his toughest ever teammate by a margin, and that he is struggling to adapt to the current era of racing.


Toughest team mate ever? Sure he's fast but I rate Barrichello much better. Look how well he's done against Hulkenburg. I'd also wager that Barrichello would be showing Rosberg a thing or too this year. He's clearly lost nothing.

The 3 year lay off has has hurt much more than expected, that combined with lack of testing and completely different cars and the result was never going to be pretty.

To be honest, I'm expecting nothing for the rest of the year. I expect an improved showing in 2011 though otherwise his legacy is all but damaged.

#3145 rog

rog
  • Member

  • 907 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 12 July 2010 - 21:23

Rosberg is a class above. Barrichello isn't top class, he lost to Button and Button losing to Hamilton. Barrichello is a tough and decent Top 10 driver but no WDC material. He had several years to win a WDC with Ferrari and Brawn.

#3146 merschu

merschu
  • Member

  • 520 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 12 July 2010 - 21:27

Just a reminder. This is a Michael Schumacher thread! Not about Nico Rosberg or Rubens Barrichello or MS vs Nico thread.

#3147 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

Ferrari_F1_fan_2001
  • Member

  • 3,027 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 13 July 2010 - 00:06

Rosberg is a class above. Barrichello isn't top class, he lost to Button and Button losing to Hamilton. Barrichello is a tough and decent Top 10 driver but no WDC material. He had several years to win a WDC with Ferrari and Brawn.


Several years to win up against Schumacher who was clear #1 in the team? I don't think so

As for Brawn/Honda

2006 - crap
2007 - crap
2008 - crap
2009 - matched and beat Button for most of the second half.

Several years with Brawn/Honda? There's your explanation.

Shows what you know :D

#3148 Muz Bee

Muz Bee
  • Member

  • 2,531 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 13 July 2010 - 01:56

What I just said. But still Michael lose a lot of points this year. He was in points scoring position in how many races? If I calculate how much he lost he could be with 80 points or more. As understand you don't know what word luck mean? This thing don't exist for you. I remember how some strong teams perform last year. How he is fast in GP2 and Race of Champions? They are all great drivers and can adopt fast to the cars there. But he beat them. It will be nice to see him against Nico in ROC this year in Germany. From one point we stop discussing how is the car now? They make some changes and what is result? How is balance ,WD ,Nico is still 4 kg lighter. Yes he have problem with this car. This car. Points mean something only if you didn't see the races. I see the races, I see him losing points in Australia(hit), Malaysia(wheel), Monaco(penalty), Canada(tire), Valencia(pit), Silverstone(mistake,SC). Maybe I miss some race. Alonso have almost the same points like Nico then we can assume they are equal? Massa is slower driver than Nico with less points. "Domenicali: Ferrari must be cursed at the moment" How stupid he have to be to say something like that? Or maybe Michael is cursed at the moment? With number 3. I think Nico visited some lady gipsy early this year. They make him spell. :rotfl:

Oh I see the amusing part, just not what you are laughing at! :) Despite your tenuous grip of written english (not your fault) I find it totally incredible you cling to the belief that Michael has lucked out and Nico has lucked in. I'm not here to play cheerleader for Nico (or anyone) but there wouldn't be an F1 journalist in pitlane who thinks Michael has done a decent job and Nico has said some powerful prayers which have come in for him. :lol: If odd and even qualifying positions (clean side/dirty side) are matters of luck rather than management as I believe, then how's Michael's luck in this regard? I have, despite your dismissive and superior attitude, been watching closely. Your mashing of the argument by bringing in Massa, Ferrari, Domenicali, is really quite beyond my simple form of human intelligence so I will not take it up with you or ask even to explain.

Luck if you want to study it and it's effects;

(a) diminishes with the size of the sample of events (we are at 10 races, 8-2 Rosberg). If we took the sample of "luck" events out to 1000 it would be more than merely unlucky to have luck run 800-200 given 50/50 random chance. On the other hand a sample of 3 luck events going 3-0 is quite reasonable probability (I studied statistics a long time ago)

(b) tends to be partially made by it's receiver. We used to say of some "unlucky" racers we competed against made their own luck.

Studying the Schumacher fans predictions from two months ago Michael's screw is supposed to have turned towards "own"ership of young Rosberg before now. This is a good example of wishful thinking disguised as dispassionate analysis of the facts. Unless M-B build a different car for him to his teammate he is not looking likely to "own" Nico any time soon. The LWB version was said to be going to favour the style of Schumie who proceded to trounce Nico at round 5, the only time he has really fulfilled the expectations, albeit in a poor performance by the team. Nico bounced back and has delivered some heavy blows to the old master, we will see if he can come back. He will need more than mere luck to even the scores at season's end.


#3149 baddog

baddog
  • Member

  • 23,447 posts
  • Joined: June 99

Posted 13 July 2010 - 02:11

luck is not something people 'have' but circumstances play into things over the tiny samples in play here (10 is so small that it is effectively the same as 1)

Michael could, on performance, have double his current points, Im sure you accept that. But you dont hear him whining because you take the arrows when they come, just like you take the good fortune when IT comes.

In the end Nico has simply done a better job so far. The gap is not as big as some paint it, but it IS real.

#3150 exmayol

exmayol
  • Member

  • 554 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 13 July 2010 - 05:18

Silverstone was definetely the worst race for Michael since Chinese GP. Those mistakes, while not typical, kinda make sense given this does not seem to be the race track he ever excelled at. Clearly Nico has done a better job so far. Usually it would be Michael scoring podiums on a subpar car, not his teammate. But it is what it is. Michael is having problems. F1 has changed. Different cars, different tires, lack of refueling, lack of testing, and some bad luck on top of it. Just too much stuff to overcome to finally get everything together. Despite neverending bashing hes getting these days he deserves enormous respect just for stepping back in, taking the challenge and facing the problems as the real man, not blaming anyone but himself for inability to adapt / develop fast enough.

I do believe he still got plenty of fire in him for top class competition. Things will get better! I promise ;)

Go Michael!

Edited by exmayol, 13 July 2010 - 05:19.