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#3201 aditya-now

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 12:58

It annoys me to see so many jump on Schumacher saying that he is going retire again, over the years the Schumacher fans become used to this, but the bashers of Michael do not understand him, he will win again before he goes


Yeah, like Jackie Stewart jumping on the "Schumacher will retire by the end of the year" bandwagon.
Come to think of it, I´d probably have to reopen the "Stewart must channel his frustration"-thread....

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#3202 aditya-now

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 13:02

I am afraid you miss a lot.
And the main omission is that whatever teammate, whatever the position inside the team, the driver in question has to deliver on the track. Most of the time and with confidence. And there, in the cockpit, no one else is driving on his behalf.
Second thing is that a team will agree to give preferential treatment and a cosmic salary to a driver, who is worth doing it. Preferential treatment, if given at all, is given not for beauty, media rating or personal charm. It is the consequence, not the cause.


So you are missing something as well.

Nico Rosberg is delivering, with confidence, most of the time. Michael Schumacher is not delivering.
If indeed MS is given preferential treatment, as you try to insinuate, that would make Michael´s 2010 showing even worse....


#3203 Collective

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 13:02

Food for thought... Few would disagree that 2010 is probably the first time since 1991 where M Schumacher does not have the entire team he competes for moulded around him at the expense of the other driver. It is probably the first time where the car he is driving was not customised for him at the expense if the other driver. And it is probably the first time where he hasn't had the lions share of the testing at the expense of the driver. M Schumacher in his own words is driving as well as he has ever done and has the same motivation he has ever done. So is this a case of M Schumacher finally being found out for what he really is? He has been comprehensively thrashed by a driver in the form of Rosberg who though is no slouch was never ranked alongside the very best of today's crop. So does 2010 finally put M Schumachers career into perspective? We all remeber the days when Herbert was initially very close to M Schumachers times before the Englishman claimed he was suddenly not given access to telemetry. Or when Irvine had virtually 0 testing at Ferrari. And ironically at Mercedes two decades ironically enough when HHF was considered to be quicker? Are things finally being placed into their proper context?


Didn't HHF had his chances as well? Irvine? What did he do with his chance to be champion in 1999? A. Spend the whole last race fighting for 5th position.

Herbert? Didn't he have his Benetton chance? He was lapped by his teammate in 3 races and failed to qualify in Canada. Standing ovation.


Seven WDCs is a much perspective as you need into Schumacher's career.

He's been badly beaten by Rosberg this year, but the answer to that does not lie in denying history.

#3204 Dragonfly

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 13:13

So you are missing something as well.

Nico Rosberg is delivering, with confidence, most of the time. Michael Schumacher is not delivering.
If indeed MS is given preferential treatment, as you try to insinuate, that would make Michael´s 2010 showing even worse....

I am afraid you totally missed the context of my post. I was replying to another post regarding his years in Ferrari. Nico is performing well, collects points, gathers confidence, but is far from what I'd call 'deliver'. Maybe it's becaise English is not a native language for me.

As for the moment I don't think there is a sign of a preferential treatment. MS has no ground to require one even if he wants it, which I doubt ATM.


#3205 aditya-now

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 13:16

Didn't HHF had his chances as well?


Yes, he did, and no one ever came closer to winning a title in a Jordan in 1999 than Heinz-Harald did.


Irvine? What did he do with his chance to be champion in 1999?


What did Ferrari do to make him WDC in 1999? Amongst other things, trying to fit him with three tyres instead of four in a pitstop....
There was never the impression that all forces in Ferrari were dedicated to make Irvine WDC before Michael.

Which again supports the phenomenon that man was describing: that indeed Michael career total is largely due to preferential circumstances that Michael enjoyed on all fronts.


#3206 Diablobb81

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 13:32

Yes, he did, and no one ever came closer to winning a title in a Jordan in 1999 than Heinz-Harald did.




What did Ferrari do to make him WDC in 1999? Amongst other things, trying to fit him with three tyres instead of four in a pitstop....
There was never the impression that all forces in Ferrari were dedicated to make Irvine WDC before Michael.

Which again supports the phenomenon that man was describing: that indeed Michael career total is largely due to preferential circumstances that Michael enjoyed on all fronts.


Funny that probably Michael would have won in 1999 too.

Again the same old BS without any facts.

Ferrari made MSC come back to help Irvine. And he did (let's ignore MSC's performance after the accident, which clearly proves once again that Schumi's career is largely due to preferential circumstances :rotfl: ). Irvine failed to deliver.

Edited by Diablobb81, 13 July 2010 - 13:34.


#3207 as65p

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 13:42

Funny that probably Michael would have won in 1999 too.

Again the same old BS without any facts.

Ferrari made MSC come back to help Irvine. And he did (let's ignore MSC's performance after the accident, which clearly proves once again that Schumi's career is largely due to preferential circumstances :rotfl: ). Irvine failed to deliver.


It's not as easy, simply because "Ferrari" wasn't the uniform entity you make it sound. LdM forced MS to come back and help Irvine, that's true. Yet it doesn't say much about how Jean Todt felt about Irvine getting the teams first WDC instead of his beloved Schumi.

It's a combination of things, and yes, part of it is that Irvine just wasn't anywhere as good as MS, obviously. But there's still more to it, for all I remember Ferrari (the on-track operation with JT/RB at the helm) didn't look that keen about supporting Irvine the same they did with MS.

#3208 Diablobb81

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 13:48

It's not as easy, simply because "Ferrari" wasn't the uniform entity you make it sound. LdM forced MS to come back and help Irvine, that's true. Yet it doesn't say much about how Jean Todt felt about Irvine getting the teams first WDC instead of his beloved Schumi.

It's a combination of things, and yes, part of it is that Irvine just wasn't anywhere as good as MS, obviously. But there's still more to it, for all I remember Ferrari (the on-track operation with JT/RB at the helm) didn't look that keen about supporting Irvine the same they did with MS.


You have every right to interpret the situation how you want. But there is no proof that Ferrari didn't want Irvine to win.

So if Irvine, although slower, got his fair chance at WDC but didn't deliver how can you say that MSC won only largely due to preferential circumstances that he enjoyed on all fronts. Even Irvine stated that Schumi was faster.

So Michel won because he is a great driver (or was :p ). All the other things (number one status, car made for his liking) came because he was a good driver. You and others (intentionally) confuse cause with effect.

Edited by Diablobb81, 13 July 2010 - 13:49.


#3209 merschu

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 14:33

Michael Schumacher interviewed in his Ranch. Talks about the ranch, his wife, how it's like to be back in F1, about the testing ban, about this season, and says he will not quit after this season & also says that the fun will rather start next season.



#3210 aditya-now

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 15:00

Michael Schumacher interviewed in his Ranch. Talks about the ranch, his wife, how it's like to be back in F1, about the testing ban, about this season, and says he will not quit after this season & also says that the fun will rather start next season.


Thanks for the link, kuddos! :up:

I admire Michael for his never-say-die attitude, and who knows, it could well be that he still strikes a gold mine when the car is to his liking....
If it doesn´t happen, however, it will definitely have an impact also on the way his career total is perceived - following some of the posts here in this thread we see many elements of Michael´s first career revisited, re-scrutineered and re-evalutated and consequently the driver that MS is appears in a more complete light than so far.

#3211 Sakae

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 16:06

Michael Schumacher interviewed in his Ranch. Talks about the ranch, his wife, how it's like to be back in F1, about the testing ban, about this season, and says he will not quit after this season & also says that the fun will rather start next season.


That's why we are fans; focus on his work, determination, and modesty. Kudos to him!

#3212 man

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 16:16

Ok, maybe the claim of a direct contradiction is incorrect in light of your clarifying. But I have to say I think you are very generous in your reasons for people who Schumacher beats having lost speed and rather ungenerous when considering whether Schumacher may have lost speed.

He's 41. He's had 3 years out of, not just F1, but all single seater racing. These seem much more tangible reasons for a driver losing speed, to me, than "Piquet was just in it for the money". Yet you give 100% credence to the latter and 0% to the former.


I think it is/was universally accepted that Nelson Piquet in his latter years really had very little motivation when the car wasn't up to it. More credible observers than myself such as James Hunt (who as a big Piquet fan in the early 80s) constantly questioned Piquets motives fo being in F1 in his latter years. A man who as I mentioned was at times out qualified and matched by Mr Nakajima. Piquet would party te night away before race day and visibly didn't look all that bothered about qualifying well down the field or racing for mid field places. You have to accept that Piquet took racing a lot less serious than M Schumacher ever did or does. For Schumacher it is fair to say racing is his life for Piquet he always had outside business interests. To say these two had the same motivation is just silly.

#3213 Muz Bee

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 20:39

I'm not sure what ages some of you are but the assertion that age doesn't make you slower is partially, palpably wrong. I'm old enough to know it, I have seen it in others (and myself) countless times and it happens to everyone at the top level (i.e. a demanding class of car and racing) if they stay long enough. Most in the past have either;

been killed
retired while still at their peak (Jackie Stewart)
or lost the motivation (Lauda twice)

Those who stayed too long eventually couldn't find employment in F1 and maybe raced DTM or similar. The decline can be quite dramatic or very subtle but it usually affects mental process first. I maintain that Massa's 2009 accident has neurologically affected him and we have seen a sudden drop in his ability similar to the more gradual decline in others. He lacks the spacial awareness and sharpness to be the driver he was in the past couple of seasons when he was undoubtedly good.

Michael has probably lost a tenth or two but it his likely ability to think/react/multithread which has suffered through a combination of aging and the use it or lose it syndrome. If you take Rosberg as a benchmark (what other is there?) how much has Michael reclaimed since the first 2-3 races? i would suggest very little, although he will undoubtedly continue to learn about the car, the tyres, the package. Unfortunately for him his quicker teammate will also do the same as he too has no greater experience with the car/tyres/team/package than Michael. 2010 was clean slate in many respects with the no refuelling dictates on car design and tyre characteristics.

I enjoyed the 60s, 70s and 80s and bits of the 90s and 00s too but I have no desire to see an old favourite of an early era come back and prove how great he WAS. That was then this was now is the saying. I certainly don't think it would be at all cool for McLaren to prepare a special car for Hakkinen that will suit him and that he can beat Jenson or whoever. That's what some here are hopoing for. Michael was winning in F1 in 1993, 18 seasons on and that he isn't is no surprise. What is surprising is that Michael still wants to and is prepared to undermine some of the mystique which in some ways was built on a special Scuderia dream team who also had the backing of the FIA in veto rights etc etc etc. This isn't dissing Michael as a driver of rare and broad skills just putting it into mortal terms.

I get the feeling that some people almost expect to see Ayron Senna turn up like Elvis does all the time! It's that sort of wishful thinking to the point that the world is incomplete without Senna/Elvis or whoever. Funny things humans, cut them and they all bleed red.

#3214 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 20:48

I'm not doubting his dedication. He is without doubt one of the if not the most dedicated driver I am aware of in te history of the sport. I am saying M Schumacher through circumstances asni have explained ended up in situations where he was continuously at an advantage compared to his rivals and teammates which made it a lot easier for him to achieve what he has. As I said, if he made his debut alongside Mansell or Prost in 1991 things would have panned out very differently and I'm certain he wouldn't have the 7 wdc he has ended up with. Now we see him in a team where his situation is pretty much equal to that of his teammate , a level of equality M Schumacher has never had since 1991 and suddenly he doesn't appear to be anywhere near as good. Lauda said age van affect a driver in different ways which are:

Risk taking - in my view M Schumacher is still a risk taker.
Motivation - M Schumacher himself has said he is as motivated as ever
Fitness - M Schumacher has always been fit and I'm convinced his fitness level is in no way detrimental to his performances.
Experience with current regs - Lauda and M Schumacher followers and other experts said it would take a couple maybe five race to be fully adjusted to current cars.

So I arrive at the conclusion that age has not in anyway affected M Schumacher and is therefore as good as he has ever been. His circumstances have changed and give the illusion he isn't te same driver but the criteria set by Lauda suggests he is as good as he has ever been. Therefore when we take into consideration how he was favoured before with his respective teams we can finally see his true level.


You can't go by Lauda's criteria alone. To hang on to Lauda's every word as though it is gospel lacks holistic insight into the situation.

Lauda's comments are just one of many who believe they have the Schumacher conundrum figured out.

It's also no good saying "Schumacher has been exposed now he doesn't have #1 status and a second rate team mate any more". Again, that isn't a proper insight.


Schumacher's problem is that he has been out of the sport for 3 years, the game/cars/drivers/tyres have moved on and he is playing catch up. The press doesn't help either as it mounts extra pressure to succeed but ends with mistakes being made like over driving to compensate.

These aren't excuses like some fanboys make for Schumacher. I'm being realistic and objective here, I personally think his pure speed has now disappeared (maybe forever) but again as stated before, what he lacks in pure speed, he'll make up for in other areas. Look at Prost for example, never the fastest but he got the job done.

f by next season he is struggling then it is time to wave the white flag. He'll have nothing to be ashamed of, he can say "look, I gave it my best, but I'm not who I used to be, father time has caught up with me and it's time to finally move on". He'll gain more respect that way and his legacy won't be besmirched.

#3215 Sakae

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 23:59

In the (Dutch?) interview one statement cought my attention, and because of ambiguous response, I was sorry that reporter didn't asked for clarification.

In one point Michael said "we knew this year will be struggle...".

"We" denotes him and Brawn regarding his re-immersion into life in F1, and was Norbert part of that conversation? I was wondering only because I have occassionaly impression that Haug is expecting more, and some inside of their "then" thinking could give us clue what's ahead.

Second alternative is, that they were talking about a car, reduction of resources, in all, new F1 that Michael hasn't found yet.

Edited by Sakae, 14 July 2010 - 00:05.


#3216 man

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 00:15

You can't go by Lauda's criteria alone. To hang on to Lauda's every word as though it is gospel lacks holistic insight into the situation.

Lauda's comments are just one of many who believe they have the Schumacher conundrum figured out.

It's also no good saying "Schumacher has been exposed now he doesn't have #1 status and a second rate team mate any more". Again, that isn't a proper insight.


Schumacher's problem is that he has been out of the sport for 3 years, the game/cars/drivers/tyres have moved on and he is playing catch up. The press doesn't help either as it mounts extra pressure to succeed but ends with mistakes being made like over driving to compensate.

These aren't excuses like some fanboys make for Schumacher. I'm being realistic and objective here, I personally think his pure speed has now disappeared (maybe forever) but again as stated before, what he lacks in pure speed, he'll make up for in other areas. Look at Prost for example, never the fastest but he got the job done.

f by next season he is struggling then it is time to wave the white flag. He'll have nothing to be ashamed of, he can say "look, I gave it my best, but I'm not who I used to be, father time has caught up with me and it's time to finally move on". He'll gain more respect that way and his legacy won't be besmirched.


You claim to be objective yet you rule out my suggestion that he is possibly as good now as he has ever been on the basis of what exactly? Why can it not even be contemplated by yourself and others that he is as good as he has ever been? Why is Laudas definition as to how age has potentially affected M Schumacher deemed as inappropriate criteria to utilise to quantify how the time out has affected M Schumacher? How can you prove that M Schumacher is not as good as he has ever been? Why is laudas opinion ( a man who has been there and done it) less qualified than you or I to judge M Schumachers situation? M Schumacher himself implies he is as fired up and complete as he has ever been yet he claims he needs more time. So let's give him more time, thus far though it seems time hasn't done him any favours at all in his battle with Rosberg.


#3217 man

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 00:26

Didn't Ross Brawn also state M Schumaxher was back to his old self pre season? I'm certain he said M Achumacher told him that he felt he still has "it" yet there are those here who wish to disagree with the man himself? Time to adapt, time to adapt I hear you scream. Wasn't this apparently the skill of M Schumacher? Beingbable to adapt quickly? Half a season, practice, qualifying, racing half a season and no sign of progress. Ok, if it is insisted he needs yet further time, let's wait until the end of 2011 if he is still around. I think I have seen enough thus far to suggest that things are not necessarily going to get any better for M Schumacher in his battle to come toterms with the superiority that Rosberg has has thus far in 2010.

#3218 man

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 00:38

Funny that probably Michael would have won in 1999 too.

Again the same old BS without any facts.

Ferrari made MSC come back to help Irvine. And he did (let's ignore MSC's performance after the accident, which clearly proves once again that Schumi's career is largely due to preferential circumstances :rotfl: ). Irvine failed to deliver.


Yes M Schumacher looked clearly superior to Irvine in the last few races of 1999. Does that take into account that the cars they were driving were moulded around M Schumacher in the first place?

#3219 baddog

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 00:41

You claim to be objective yet you rule out my suggestion


People are discounting your opinion because it is so obvious you are an agenda driven basher using any quotes you feel can prop up your confirmation bias regarding your long held opinion that schumacher is overrated. If you were actually seeking to establish an opinion using quotes as evidence then you would be using quotes from various angles but you merely endlessly repeat any you feel are negative, combining them with personal rantings.

You have a right to be heard out politely but no right at all to be taken seriously

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#3220 man

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 00:53

People are discounting your opinion because it is so obvious you are an agenda driven basher using any quotes you feel can prop up your confirmation bias regarding your long held opinion that schumacher is overrated. If you were actually seeking to establish an opinion using quotes as evidence then you would be using quotes from various angles but you merely endlessly repeat any you feel are negative, combining them with personal rantings.

You have a right to be heard out politely but no right at all to be taken seriously


A basher? What is that? Somebody who has an opinion or states things you don't like? :-)

Back on topic please or Jenson Button it. ;-p

#3221 baddog

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 01:10

Well, we have many people here who dislike what I like who I consider friends so blah to that.

On topic, Michael needs to up his game a little more (just a little but real amount) but I am confident he will do just that.

#3222 cheapracer

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 02:10

Which again supports the phenomenon that man was describing: that indeed Michael career total is largely due to preferential circumstances that Michael enjoyed on all fronts.


So what, not only was he the best driver then (not the fans, but according to everybody involved in F1) he was also smart enough to make the whole team package work for him.

I don't know why it keeps coming back to this, he is 7 times WDC and even 1 GP win doesn't come easy. It's only people in forums who keep repeating the excuses conveniently forgetting the foundation of why he got that support - he delivered.

Martin Brundle seems to be enjoying wading in the shit too, dissapointing because I had a lot of respect for Brundle's driving and he really could have been something better - he is currently showing me why he couldn't cut it, takes more than just driving skill.


Yes M Schumacher looked clearly superior to Irvine in the last few races of 1999. Does that take into account that the cars they were driving were moulded around M Schumacher in the first place?


Because he was worth moulding the car around to take advantage of his talent.

Edited by cheapracer, 14 July 2010 - 02:12.


#3223 cheapracer

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 02:22

So you are missing something as well.

Nico Rosberg is delivering, with confidence, most of the time. Michael Schumacher is not delivering.
If indeed MS is given preferential treatment, as you try to insinuate, that would make Michael´s 2010 showing even worse....


Well re Rosberg - who developed the car this year? Would Rosberg be so fast had not MS's opinions to make dramatic changes in setup including the longer wheelbase gone ahead?

Anyway, I was a bit deflated about MS when I read the British GP results but as usual the results on paper aren't what actually happened. MS ran a great race and was fast considering he had a damaged front wing missing pieces so I still think he will be there shortly.

No he isn't faster than Nico (the surprise of the year to me) and maybe won't ever be but he can and will match him over a race.


#3224 Birelman

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 02:29

Well re Rosberg - who developed the car this year? Would Rosberg be so fast had not MS's opinions to make dramatic changes in setup including the longer wheelbase gone ahead?

Anyway, I was a bit deflated about MS when I read the British GP results but as usual the results on paper aren't what actually happened. MS ran a great race and was fast considering he had a damaged front wing missing pieces so I still think he will be there shortly.

No he isn't faster than Nico (the surprise of the year to me) and maybe won't ever be but he can and will match him over a race.

It's particularly strange to see a Michael Schumacher fan say those words, as Schumacher made a living out of results that didn't necessarily reflect what happened in the race, or year, or career.

#3225 aditya-now

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 02:34

No he isn't faster than Nico (the surprise of the year to me) and maybe won't ever be but he can and will match him over a race.


"Dream on", as Aerosmith sing.

Yet it endears you to me, how loyally you hold on to MS, even when he just proves race after race that he is past it.




#3226 aditya-now

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 02:48


Come to think of it, cheapracer, Juan Kerr is having an even more optimistic view of Michael´s chances:

Michael is in tip top condition he has lost none of his speed and I would imagine is looking forward to a nice fresh start with Schumacher advised car characteristic and Pirelli tires next year.



We are living in a big world, and everybody is entitled to their opinion.
So let´s hope for Michael. It would be a pity if he undermines his historic achievements to such an extent that they are viewed as having been helped by preferential treatment and other peripheral circumstances.


#3227 aditya-now

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 02:49

It's particularly strange to see a Michael Schumacher fan say those words, as Schumacher made a living out of results that didn't necessarily reflect what happened in the race, or year, or career.


+1 :up:


#3228 Raelene

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 03:55

It's not as easy, simply because "Ferrari" wasn't the uniform entity you make it sound. LdM forced MS to come back and help Irvine, that's true. Yet it doesn't say much about how Jean Todt felt about Irvine getting the teams first WDC instead of his beloved Schumi.

It's a combination of things, and yes, part of it is that Irvine just wasn't anywhere as good as MS, obviously. But there's still more to it, for all I remember Ferrari (the on-track operation with JT/RB at the helm) didn't look that keen about supporting Irvine the same they did with MS.


that damn Ferrari - asking both MS and MSalo to move over for Eddie - how dare they do that when they weren't trying to help him.

#3229 jimm

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 05:29

Funny that probably Michael would have won in 1999 too.

Again the same old BS without any facts.

Ferrari made MSC come back to help Irvine. And he did (let's ignore MSC's performance after the accident, which clearly proves once again that Schumi's career is largely due to preferential circumstances :rotfl: ). Irvine failed to deliver.



Would have helped if Ferrari delivered also.....Like remembering to have 4 tires ready on the pitstop instead of only 3.

#3230 jimm

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 05:32

Well re Rosberg - who developed the car this year? Would Rosberg be so fast had not MS's opinions to make dramatic changes in setup including the longer wheelbase gone ahead?

Anyway, I was a bit deflated about MS when I read the British GP results but as usual the results on paper aren't what actually happened. MS ran a great race and was fast considering he had a damaged front wing missing pieces so I still think he will be there shortly.

No he isn't faster than Nico (the surprise of the year to me) and maybe won't ever be but he can and will match him over a race.



Hmmmm....seem to be slowing realizing that MS is not doing the job. Almost there.

I think what MS is trying to do is tough and willing to give him a while but 1/2 season mark now. No more excuses. Other guys out there delivering good performances with torn off aero pecies including Rosberg rear wing. No excuses....MS needs to find speed. Nearly 1 sec in quali back from Nico, could not put in the fast times on the pit out laps to jump the guys in front of him...just not delivering the performance.

#3231 Diablobb81

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 05:47

Would have helped if Ferrari delivered also.....Like remembering to have 4 tires ready on the pitstop instead of only 3.



Stupid things happen.

But the fact we have is Schumi was made to come back and help Irvine and both him and Salo had to play second fiddle.


It would be a pity if he undermines his historic achievements to such an extent that they are viewed as having been helped by preferential treatment and other peripheral circumstances.


Once again, logic dictates that whatever he does this year can not have any influence on what happened before.

If you believe he only achieved his successes because of preferential treatment etc. so be it. But nothing that happens this year can reinforce your position.


Edited by Diablobb81, 14 July 2010 - 05:52.


#3232 cheapracer

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 06:34

It's particularly strange to see a Michael Schumacher fan say those words, as Schumacher made a living out of results that didn't necessarily reflect what happened in the race, or year, or career.


Lets have some examples rather than flippant comments.


#3233 cheapracer

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 06:39

"Dream on", as Aerosmith sing.


For a start you immediately and conveniently forget Monaco, Turkey ....

Just for clarity when I said Rosberg was "the surprise of the year for me" I mean in his actual ability based on the entire field (early fastest lap at Brit and Monaco GP was awesome for example) - not that he's beating MS, that I expected early on.

Edited by cheapracer, 14 July 2010 - 07:10.


#3234 ivand911

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 07:06

For Rosberg driving W01 was evolution from years(2008,2009) , for Michael driving W01 was revolution from years before 2006. Do you think they started this year on one level? As you say 1999 car was Michael car and he was better, just 2010 is car where Rosberg is much more comfortable ,where he doesn't need to change his driving style, because he does this in years before with little change every year. Michael need it to make BIG change to his style. Simple. They didn't start one same level (knowledge from last years), and there isn't way Michael to close this gap. No testing, I still believe that Rosberg engineer is better than Michaels (we see this last year also with Barichello). I hope he will close the gap, but he need to do it alone, nobody help him. He just don't know what to expect when he(they) make some change in set-up. Because he don't have previous experience with, this type of hardware. Yes Michael have big experience from before 2006, but this experience count for nothing in 2010. They also drove before 2006, cars with 4 tires. This is where similarities finish. This is like going to new work in a bank. You have new colleague also coming from another bank, but you are coming from university or pension (no recent work experience). Who will do better? Or if the cars didn't change from 2006, there would be different story. Will see what will happen, now are coming 4 tracks which he know very well.

Edited by ivand911, 14 July 2010 - 07:21.


#3235 merschu

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 07:28

F1 British Grand Prix: Michael Schumacher has no plans to quit his comeback

http://www.telegraph...s-comeback.html

"Winter testing hinted that to win the championship would be tough. Here, where we are now, I'm not thinking of the championship anymore. That is unrealistic from my point of view. We try to learn as much as we can and prepare for next year. That's what I'm fully motivated towards," Schumacher said.

"I can only repeat that I have been in all sorts of circumstances through my career. Don't worry. I don't suffer at all about this in a way that affects my motivation. I put in as much effort as ever and drive at a level that I can be happy with. I understand that some are not happy, but that's not my problem."


Neither has Mercedes team principal Ross Brawn lost faith in the Schumacher project. "I have known Michael a long time. You would think I'd know if he were about to chuck it in. It has probably been harder to come back than Michael imagined. He is not 24 any more and he is up against younger, ambitious drivers keen to make their mark on the sport. But his problem has not been them as much as the car. It has not been good enough.

"It is also the case that he is not looking at Formula One in the same way he did when we first worked together. He is more interested in the whole Mercedes project. He takes a greater interest in the wider aspects of what we are trying to do and is not simply concerned with what happens on the track. He is enjoying his return more than people think."




#3236 arknor

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 07:34

i suspect the car is so comprimised when it comes to setup options because the balance of the car is all wrong its almost impossible for schumacher to get it feeling right.

which is more than likely the reason for the wild looking car around the start of the season when schumacher was trying to make it pointy but it just ended up with a car that had no traction coming out of the corners you could clearly see the car was struggling while rosbergs seems quite alot smoother.

i expect next year aslong as the car is half good and they get the balance right and nolonger have issues getting the tyres up to temprature he will fair much better.

lets face it the car is a dog im amazed rosberg can get so much out of it seeing as there driving styles are suposed to be similar.

schumacher can usually match him or go faster when the car is full of fuel but once it starts to go light i expect the balance issues really come into play which would explain schumachers poor short run pace in qualifying

#3237 ivand911

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 07:50

It is important he to stay, everything else is BLAH,BLAH,BLAH.

#3238 MCh000

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 08:01

It is important he to stay, everything else is BLAH,BLAH,BLAH.


For sure he will stay. In winter they knew that this year is going to be compromised. And Brown didn't invite Schumacher just to sit into the car and drive, they have won together many times and he needs his input into development of the team and car. So basically next's years car will be the result of their work together.

#3239 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 08:34

You claim to be objective yet you rule out my suggestion that he is possibly as good now as he has ever been on the basis of what exactly?


Why can it not even be contemplated by yourself and others that he is as good as he has ever been?


Because he CLEARLY isn't as good as he used to be. Only someone with an agenda will say he as good as he used to be before going onto to say now he has been exposed....

The results, performances on track, 3 year lay off, new tyres, cars, rules etc all add up to a driver who is quite clearly struggling. On what basis is he then as good as he used to be? Because Nikki Lauda says so? Well then I guess we've all solved the problem and can now expose Schumacher as a fraud, B+ driver who only got the results due to luck..... :rolleyes:

Even a hater can see that if they view the situation logically and with reason.

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#3240 man

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 09:04

Because he CLEARLY isn't as good as he used to be. Only someone with an agenda will say he as good as he used to be before going onto to say now he has been exposed....

The results, performances on track, 3 year lay off, new tyres, cars, rules etc all add up to a driver who is quite clearly struggling. On what basis is he then as good as he used to be? Because Nikki Lauda says so? Well then I guess we've all solved the problem and can now expose Schumacher as a fraud, B+ driver who only got the results due to luck..... :rolleyes:

Even a hater can see that if they view the situation logically and with reason.


Sand can be irritating in certain places cant it :-)

It certainly makes a refreshing change seeing M Schumacher perform in a team environment based on equality rather than preferential treatment. It appears to be a bit too much for his fans to cope with but if we excuse their anger and frustration we can certainly see history from a more realistic and full perspective. The days of having Herbert and Verstappen aa teammates appease to have done a lot for creating the tainted myth that surrounds M Schumacher. Thankfully Rosberg and Mercedes have given us a clear and undistorted view on reality. :-)

#3241 scarletf12002

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 09:14

Michael Schumacher interviewed in his Ranch. Talks about the ranch, his wife, how it's like to be back in F1, about the testing ban, about this season, and says he will not quit after this season & also says that the fun will rather start next season.



really nice interview! Big difference between this one and the one with Jake and him driving! Maybe cos he was driving and maybe cos he is at home one this one?

#3242 aditya-now

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 09:16

On what basis is he then as good as he used to be? Because Nikki Lauda says so? Well then I guess we've all solved the problem and can now expose Schumacher as a fraud, B+ driver who only got the results due to luck..... :rolleyes:

Even a hater can see that if they view the situation logically and with reason.


Even a hater can see that Schumacher is a fraud, a B+ driver who only got the results due to luck?
That he is as good in 2010 as he used to be, even Lauda says so?

I can't follow your argument here, but it surely seems extreme to me. This goes even beyond anything Frans would share with us.

Let's stay with the facts: in his first career Schumacher achieved monumental results, while being helped in multifarious ways through special support by Bernie (who always wanted a German superstar), Brawn/Byrne/Todt, specially tailor-made contracts that prevented any teammate of Schumacher from scoring unfavorably as opposed Schumacher, special assistance by FIA, who punished only Michael's most blatant disgressions, while supporting him (and Ferrari) many times by changing the rules in his favor (only once it was not in his favor, in 2005 - and see the result how Michael suffered once the tyre rules were against him....)

In his second career Michael is an also-ran, a journey-man, being rated by readers of this BB as the 18th best driver this season.....And if it were not for his name, he would be in danger of being replaced by season's end the latest.

Conclusion: Michael is clearly not who he used to be. His showing in 2010 calls for a deeper analysis of Michael's first career, and this has started. The myth Schumi will surely not be the same by season's end.
If Mansell came back at age 41 and won a Grand Prix, Schumi (who was perceived a much better driver than Mansell by many) surely should be able to put himself on the podium at least once in ten races, when his team-mate manages this feat thrice....

#3243 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 09:22

It certainly makes a refreshing change seeing M Schumacher perform in a team environment based on equality rather than preferential treatment. It appears to be a bit too much for his fans to cope with

I don't think his fans are having problems accepting this
if anything, his haters have got problems with this..

#3244 as65p

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 09:25

I don't think his fans are having problems accepting this
if anything, his haters have got problems with this..


I don't know how you come to that conclusion, it's the exact opposite. His "haters" (or IOW, everyone who isn't an ardent fan) are absolutelyy loving his comeback. Just ask Frans, I reckon he has the time of his life.... :p

#3245 TURU

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 09:26

Michael Schumacher interviewed in his Ranch. Talks about the ranch, his wife, how it's like to be back in F1, about the testing ban, about this season, and says he will not quit after this season & also says that the fun will rather start next season.


Great interview indeed. Very honest one. It looks like he is really having fun driving F1 car again.

#3246 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 09:35

I don't know how you come to that conclusion, it's the exact opposite. His "haters" (or IOW, everyone who isn't an ardent fan) are absolutelyy loving his comeback. Just ask Frans, I reckon he has the time of his life.... :p

look at the interview with michael..he is enjoying his coneback
I think his fans are also enjoying him race

anything else than this comes from the other side of things.

#3247 scarletf12002

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 09:47

I am not sure about other MS fans but I am just glad to see him back and in no way do I think he is embarassing himself, it is def frustrating having to constantly hear that this year proves that past years were overrated etc etc. but if he can live with that then who are we to complain? I am just glad to see him back in action, not many times in life you get see a legend, enjoy it while it lasts!

#3248 as65p

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 09:58

look at the interview with michael..he is enjoying his coneback
I think his fans are also enjoying him race

anything else than this comes from the other side of things.


Yep, he's putting on a brave face in the interviews, but still the competitive animal we all know from his first career and the results he's now getting in his second career... it doesn't add up. IMO he can't be that happy, or IOW he has to reserve some degrees of hapiness for when he finally starts winning again, don't you think? Same goes for the fans. The alternative to that would be that he's just enjoing himself driving a fast car and hasn't much ambition beyond that. Not very likely, I'd say.

#3249 Owen

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 10:07

Yep, he's putting on a brave face in the interviews, but still the competitive animal we all know from his first career and the results he's now getting in his second career... it doesn't add up. IMO he can't be that happy, or IOW he has to reserve some degrees of hapiness for when he finally starts winning again, don't you think? Same goes for the fans. The alternative to that would be that he's just enjoing himself driving a fast car and hasn't much ambition beyond that. Not very likely, I'd say.

He was caught napping several times on Sunday with people attacking as he appeared to just go through the motions. I'm just not sure his heart is really in it. I'm sure if he got a sniff of a win that would all change but I can't see that happening any time soon.

#3250 A Wheel Nut

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 10:23

Personally, I don't think Schumacher is doing that bad. He's come back to a different team, driving a substantially different car to that which he last drove, in a very competitive era. Behind Red Bull and McLaren, there are 4 to 5 teams that are closely matched in Williams, Mercedes, Renault, Force India and Sauber. He's partnered with a teammate whose stock is on the rise, and who is quite possibly in the best form of his career. Anything short of Schumacher's past form would result in the kind of results we're seeing now.

I don't think anyone expected Schumacher to come back the way he was when he left, and it remains to be seen if he can recapture that form and turn his results around.

Edited by A Wheel Nut, 14 July 2010 - 10:25.