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#3301 aditya-now

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 21:33

Do you see any specific issues which would prevent him to recover from current situation?


Next year MS will be 42....


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#3302 aditya-now

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 21:36

While we are talking about specifics, than my input is, yes, I did. Thats' what 25+ years watching F1 does to you.


Well, I can tell you from watching the sport for 40 years, no, I did not. That´s what watching the sport for 15 years longer than you does.... ;)

#3303 Diablobb81

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 21:59

F
Thirdly, German car sales have a lot to do with German work force and thus German employment, and although you might not like it, it pops up time and again in Germany's economic media, like the Financial Times Germany, the Frankfurter Allgemeine (FAZ) and the Süddeutsche Zeitung. This has been a concern from the beginning of Mercedes GP, as has been the appointment of Michael Schumacher as their top driver (even 7 million € are regarded as far too much in economic times as these). Worldwide car sales indeed help little, when German workforce is laid off because of declining sales in their core markets.


This makes absolutely no sense.Overall car sales have everything to do with the german workforce, since that's were they are producing a lot of cars. Not to mention that they are running at full capacity and even hired new workers. And the fact that Germany isn't the only core market.

So not only are you constantly inventing stuff about Michael, you also have no clue about Merc. :drunk:

"Schumacher is showing terribly this year and it has thrown doubts retrospectively on his career."

Well, good thing you have no doubts about your opinions.

Edited by Diablobb81, 14 July 2010 - 22:04.


#3304 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 22:09

Compare this driving style:

Melbourne 2004



Melbourne 2010

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

I know it's not an entirely fair comparison as the 2004 Ferrari was so utterly dominant but you can see see a fundamental shift in driving styles. He's completely changed his driving style for 2010; the car looks very understeery and he slows down much earlier and then tries to 'charge' through the corner in the hope of stealing lap time wheras in the past he used to throw the car into the corner and balance it with the throttle through the middle.

Compare this style to that of 2004 and you'll see what I mean. It's not natural at all for him and looks very impure.

Edited by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, 14 July 2010 - 22:11.


#3305 Dragonfly

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 22:09

First of all, as much as I respect your posts, Dragonfly, I am not your friend.

Secondly, the concern across more than half of the Daimler-Benz boardroom is well known, even if not by you. The risk that Norbert Haug took is bigger than you might be aware of, and you can see it in his face.

Thirdly, German car sales have a lot to do with German work force and thus German employment, and although you might not like it, it pops up time and again in Germany's economic media, like the Financial Times Germany, the Frankfurter Allgemeine (FAZ) and the Süddeutsche Zeitung. This has been a concern from the beginning of Mercedes GP, as has been the appointment of Michael Schumacher as their top driver (even 7 million € are regarded as far too much in economic times as these). Worldwide car sales indeed help little, when German workforce is laid off because of declining sales in their core markets.

Fourthly, apart from all the above mentioned, it is what it is: Schumacher is showing terribly this year and it has thrown doubts retrospectively on his career. I don´t even have to hate him for this. Maybe the thrill is more in seeing what responses, justicifications and explanations Schumi fan(atics) like you come up with time and again.

Don´t take it too personal, this is a forum, and there is place enough for all our opinions. And after all, it is not dead serious but a form of entertainment.



Well, I can tell you from watching the sport for 40 years, no, I did not. That´s what watching the sport for 15 years longer than you does....;)

While it may be true that you have followed the sport for 40 years, I am amazed at how little understanding you demonstrate, and how limited your perception is.
Which perfectly explains your reaction at the word "friend".

And BTW, the thread is about MS, not the economic situation in Germany and Daimler-Benz financial policies. I don't care about them, as I live now under conditions where people like you won't survive a month. So keep your lectures for someone else.
:wave:

#3306 Johnrambo

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 22:10

Actually its a fair point (not one that Im personally bothered about though, as I care about what I watch on track only) to say that the sheer attention given to Schumacher and by reflection Mercedes, by fans AND bashers, would delight the company and help ensure they stay on board for a longer time. For a corporate a big part of it is being 'big news'.

What Im saying is that you lot who loathe him so much it hurts are doing him a favour. I hope you enjoy that :p


Schumacher's comeback is old news already. His dismal performances will weigh negatively on Mercedes more and more by each passing race. Mercedes has always had an image as an old man's car which they have tried to change by introducing more youthful products. Employing 41 year old has been who cannot perform surely does not do any good to their corporate image. If Merc will continue to employ MS they'll be seen as nothing more than an advertising gimmick.

#3307 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 22:16

Schumacher's comeback is old news already. His dismal performances will weigh negatively on Mercedes more and more by each passing race. Mercedes has always had an image as an old man's car which they have tried to change by introducing more youthful products. Employing 41 year old has been who cannot perform surely does not do any good to their corporate image. If Merc will continue to employ MS they'll be seen as nothing more than an advertising gimmick.


It takes time for a relationship to work. It took Schumacher many attempts at Ferrari before being crowned champion, and although Schumacher isn't going for a championship, the relationship with the principals, team, car etc will take time to come into fruition.

Look at my last post, you can see how horrible to drive the Mercedes car is for Schumacher. If/when it improves, I'm sure his performances will. If not, you can't expect much from the guy. A better car will produce better results. Look at Ferrari in 2010 - a fantastic car but poor performances and bad luck - and they're still ahead of Mercedes even though their drivers have been very inconsistent this year.

#3308 baddog

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 22:20

Schumacher's comeback is old news already. His dismal performances will weigh negatively on Mercedes more and more by each passing race. Mercedes has always had an image as an old man's car which they have tried to change by introducing more youthful products. Employing 41 year old has been who cannot perform surely does not do any good to their corporate image. If Merc will continue to employ MS they'll be seen as nothing more than an advertising gimmick.

Its a potentially valid point of view certainly. I think being one of the top 3 discussion subjects every race when they might otherwise have been one of the top 3 subjects not even once this year is a positive. anonymity in the midfield is commercial suicide.

Michael is a news/buzz generator whether you like it or not.

Also his performances, again, really are not half as bad as some people wish to paint them.

#3309 Sakae

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 22:32

Next year MS will be 42....

I [Brawn, Michael, Norbert, MB board, BE] didn't know that no. 42 is a specific problem from being competitive on the track. His lateral vision is OK, his top speed is OK, he didn't forget how to move around, so the only unanswered question is, why number 42 should be a detriment.

Edited by Sakae, 14 July 2010 - 22:33.


#3310 Diablobb81

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 22:42

In his second career Michael is an also-ran, a journey-man, being rated by readers of this BB as the 18th best driver this season.....


Oh, btw, should i bother to tell you that your analysis of the poll results are wrong?

The voters didn't rate him in 18th, they just didn't believe he is in the top 7 (which might be true).

But that's not unexpected since you constantly present your personal opinions as facts.

Edited by Diablobb81, 14 July 2010 - 22:44.


#3311 Sakae

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 22:43

Birelman and as65p, you are just too bored to notice the man who is in a state of renaissance. Both of you betting on some basic arithmetic, relaying on a calendar, and both of you have missed the boat.

I tell you what is the only weakness, and this is coming from one of his real fans. He doesn't have actually a problem, and that's the problem. Norbert and Ross do; Michael is not hungry anymore. He is motivated alright, but the last UMP (!) is missing, and that's the only concern that I have with him. Hopefully he will get pretty soon p***d off with the publicity he is getting, and all will fall back to normal. :wave:

Edited by Sakae, 14 July 2010 - 22:57.


#3312 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 22:55

I [Brawn, Michael, Norbert, MB board, BE] didn't know that no. 42 is a specific problem from being competitive on the track. His lateral vision is OK, his top speed is OK, he didn't forget how to move around, so the only unanswered question is, why number 42 should be a detriment.


If George Foreman could become heavyweight champion of the world at age 45 in the hardest sport in the world (in my opinion) then I'm sure a younger, fitter, equally determined and more intelligent Michael Schumacher has all the abilities to succeed.

Will he? Well if Mercedes design another BAR (I jest) then no he won't.

#3313 Dragonfly

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 23:03

I [Brawn, Michael, Norbert, MB board, BE] didn't know that no. 42 is a specific problem from being competitive on the track. His lateral vision is OK, his top speed is OK, he didn't forget how to move around, so the only unanswered question is, why number 42 should be a detriment.

The problem is, 42 is the answer.
And no one at MGP knows the question to it.
Even our almighty forum wizards don't.
:)

#3314 Sakae

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 23:08

Is there correlation between number 42 and "I don't like this damn car with its tires"? He said something like that about Ferrari, fifteen years back.

#3315 aditya-now

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 23:11

Oh, btw, should i bother to tell you that your analysis of the poll results are wrong?

The voters didn't rate him in 18th, they just didn't believe he is in the top 7 (which might be true).


Which is just as well - so few people voted MS into their Top Seven that in the total results he only got 18th position (enough other drivers were voted into the individual Top Seven, that all in all Schumi placed only 18th) - so however you want to twist it around - the majority of people don´t really think that Schumi´s performance is enough at any rate.




#3316 aditya-now

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 23:13

Michael is a news/buzz generator whether you like it or not.


That´s about as far as you get - if he were a no-name driver he would be quickly dismissed, like this he provides a talking point even in a negative way - buzz is buzz.

I am sure that Michael himself would rather create buzz by winning GPs.


#3317 aditya-now

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 23:16

While it may be true that you have followed the sport for 40 years, I am amazed at how little understanding you demonstrate, and how limited your perception is.
:wave:


I am grateful that you concede at least that - that I am able to count for how many years I follow the sport.
:wave:



#3318 as65p

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 00:00

Birelman and as65p, you are just too bored to notice the man who is in a state of renaissance. Both of you betting on some basic arithmetic, relaying on a calendar, and both of you have missed the boat.

I tell you what is the only weakness, and this is coming from one of his real fans. He doesn't have actually a problem, and that's the problem. Norbert and Ross do; Michael is not hungry anymore. He is motivated alright, but the last UMP (!) is missing, and that's the only concern that I have with him. Hopefully he will get pretty soon p***d off with the publicity he is getting, and all will fall back to normal. :wave:


How many more different theories do you have in store? :p

If anything, what we see happening right now IS perfectly normal, you just refuse to recognize it, still hoping for the miracle of a superhuman hero defying age and the effects of a three year break away from business.

But I'm sure you have already laid out a selection of reasons as to why he doesn't live up to your lofty expectations, reasons that will allow you to dream on about MS coming back and dominate the field, if not for <insert excuse of the day>.

I actually quite like that latest one, that he wasn't pissed enough to bother. :up: :drunk:

#3319 dav115

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 00:34

Compare this driving style:

Melbourne 2004



Melbourne 2010

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

I know it's not an entirely fair comparison as the 2004 Ferrari was so utterly dominant but you can see see a fundamental shift in driving styles. He's completely changed his driving style for 2010; the car looks very understeery and he slows down much earlier and then tries to 'charge' through the corner in the hope of stealing lap time wheras in the past he used to throw the car into the corner and balance it with the throttle through the middle.

Compare this style to that of 2004 and you'll see what I mean. It's not natural at all for him and looks very impure.

I wonder how much of that has to do with this engine cutoff that is activated when the a certain level of brake+accelerator travel is recorded - we all know how Michael used to (and judging by his team radio from Silverstone, still tries to) modulate the throttle constantly whilst braking in order to control the balance of the car. Perhaps he simply isn't able to do that as much with this ECU cutoff?

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#3320 man

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 01:03

Its a potentially valid point of view certainly. I think being one of the top 3 discussion subjects every race when they might otherwise have been one of the top 3 subjects not even once this year is a positive. anonymity in the midfield is commercial suicide.

Michael is a news/buzz generator whether you like it or not.

Also his performances, again, really are not half as bad as some people wish to paint them.


The old cliche is negative publicity is publicity = good. Don't agree with that. Did The recent problems faced by the road division of Toyota help them despite the "free publicity"? What we have here are the last remaining hardcore m Schumacher fans refusing to let go. Fair enough. But times change, new generations take over. What do you think a new fan of F1 age 18 will make of M Schumacher, If we assume he has "mainstream" demographics of a guy from China for example he will probably arrive at the conclusion that M Schumacher is an old slow driver that has been out-classed by his teammate in 2010. The only folks that would be pleased to be associated with a product connected to M Schumacher will probably only be his hardcore fans from 10 years previous. The mainstream want to be associated with something current and successful, which M Achumacher is most certainly not. However, as I said before. I sincerely hope M Schumacher is allowed to continue or decides to continue in 2011. His return has provided me with much entertainment which I should be grateful for. :-)

#3321 Sakae

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 01:16

How many more different theories do you have in store? :p

If anything, what we see happening right now IS perfectly normal, you just refuse to recognize it, still hoping for the miracle of a superhuman hero defying age and the effects of a three year break away from business.

But I'm sure you have already laid out a selection of reasons as to why he doesn't live up to your lofty expectations, reasons that will allow you to dream on about MS coming back and dominate the field, if not for <insert excuse of the day>.

I actually quite like that latest one, that he wasn't pissed enough to bother. :up: :drunk:

Hmm, but even Cesar knew that hungry army is a better fighting army. ;)

#3322 Birelman

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 03:19

Birelman and as65p, you are just too bored to notice the man who is in a state of renaissance. Both of you betting on some basic arithmetic, relaying on a calendar, and both of you have missed the boat.

I tell you what is the only weakness, and this is coming from one of his real fans. He doesn't have actually a problem, and that's the problem. Norbert and Ross do; Michael is not hungry anymore. He is motivated alright, but the last UMP (!) is missing, and that's the only concern that I have with him. Hopefully he will get pretty soon p***d off with the publicity he is getting, and all will fall back to normal. :wave:

Man, you don't seem to understand the driving forces in these cars, these drivers are athletes, it's not the same as playing the game in your PS3, there are actually physical driving forces that these drivers have to withstand. No matter how fit he is, he is still 41 years old, however a very fit 41 year old, and probably, if you toss in F1 5 more 41 year olds, MS I'm sure would beat the crap out of the other 41 year olds and we can call it Formula 1 Seniors. So, that's it, for a 41 year old, he can kick some butt, but that's as far as it goes.

You seem to want to defy the laws of logic, physics, and life. Get over it, we all get older, and we're also going to die one day, it happens to all of us, it's part of life, he's just human, after all.

Edited by Birelman, 15 July 2010 - 03:20.


#3323 exmayol

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 04:26

Compare this style to that of 2004 and you'll see what I mean. It's not natural at all for him and looks very impure.


Even with that impure driving he was just 0.050 off someone young hot and pure.

#3324 MCh000

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 05:55

I wonder how much of that has to do with this engine cutoff that is activated when the a certain level of brake+accelerator travel is recorded - we all know how Michael used to (and judging by his team radio from Silverstone, still tries to) modulate the throttle constantly whilst braking in order to control the balance of the car. Perhaps he simply isn't able to do that as much with this ECU cutoff?


That is what I thought too when I heard this radio conversation. Wonder if they can find a way to come around this problem if it is a problem at all for Michael.

#3325 ivand911

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 06:51

I remember how all the time Massa is organizing cart races in Brasil and Michael is beating all of them. In the same carts. He beat also last year Barichelo, Massa and maybe 3-4 young Brazilian drivers(Piquet,Di grassi). Or maybe in the carts 41 is not 41.

f1enigma: Schumacher was motorbiking with some friends at the Dijon circuit Monday and Tuesday after the Silverstone GP

Edited by ivand911, 15 July 2010 - 06:56.


#3326 steveninthematrix

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 07:10

Michael is struggling with the tires...

i still believe he'll come good; how good.... we'll see

Nico is very fast.

Michael is struggling to make the tires work and the tires last; as he said, they're very different to what he use to drive.


and with nooo testing, his testing is the race weekend.

i am going to withhold judgement till the end of the year

#3327 peroa

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 07:16

Michael is struggling with the tires...

i still believe he'll come good; how good.... we'll see

Nico is very fast.

Michael is struggling to make the tires work and the tires last; as he said, they're very different to what he use to drive.


and with nooo testing, his testing is the race weekend.

i am going to withhold judgement till the end of the year



IIRC they are based on the 2005 tyres.

#3328 ivand911

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 07:19

What is based on 2005 tire? What exactly? Compound, Tire structure, Slick(No slick),Width?

Edited by ivand911, 15 July 2010 - 07:20.


#3329 Diablobb81

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 07:25

Which is just as well - so few people voted MS into their Top Seven that in the total results he only got 18th position (enough other drivers were voted into the individual Top Seven, that all in all Schumi placed only 18th) - so however you want to twist it around - the majority of people don´t really think that Schumi´s performance is enough at any rate.


Actually, no. From the poll and the votes you can't extrapolate what the position of the drivers from 8th place downward would be.

And it's hardly a surprise that he would not be in the top 7. For now.

#3330 aditya-now

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 07:41

Actually, no. From the poll and the votes you can't extrapolate what the position of the drivers from 8th place downward would be.

And it's hardly a surprise that he would not be in the top 7. For now.


Well, one thing we can definitely read from the poll: in April, the first poll, Michael was placed 8th, now, midseason, he is placed 18th. Seems that most pollers are losing confidence in Michael´s abilities, while they still gave him the benefit of the doubt in April.

It seems that it is only a small group of vocal Schumacher admirers on this BB, like yourselves, I would say twenty. And you keep the rest busy with your sentimental veneration of a driver who is past his sell-by date.

#3331 aditya-now

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 07:42

Michael is struggling with the tires...


Michael is struggling to make the tires work and the tires last; as he said, they're very different to what he used to drive.


A lot of the things that come up with Michael is always in the past tense: "they are different to what he used to drive...".

HEY!

#3332 aditya-now

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 07:43

I remember how all the time Massa is organizing cart races in Brasil and Michael is beating all of them. In the same carts. He beat also last year Barichelo, Massa and maybe 3-4 young Brazilian drivers(Piquet,Di grassi). Or maybe in the carts 41 is not 41.


In the same carts?

#3333 Diablobb81

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 08:02

Well, one thing we can definitely read from the poll: in April, the first poll, Michael was placed 8th, now, midseason, he is placed 18th. Seems that most pollers are losing confidence in Michael´s abilities, while they still gave him the benefit of the doubt in April.


For the last time, no.

Neither from the last poll, nor from this one, can you say what the position of the drivers after the 7th rank is. In regards of Schumacher you can only say that less people believe now that he is one of the top 7 drivers (which again is hardly a surprise).

I couldn't care less if you believe he is in 8th or 18th position. But don't use the misinterpretation of a poll result to back up your opinion and then present it as fact (which you constantly do anyway).

"It seems that it is only a small group of vocal Schumacher admirers on this BB, like yourselves, I would say twenty."

it seems that it is only a small group of vocal haters on this BB, like yourself, i would say six.

Edited by Diablobb81, 15 July 2010 - 08:03.


#3334 aditya-now

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 08:05

it seems that it is only a small group of vocal haters on this BB, like yourself, i would say six.

:up:

The others have long given up writing on the phenomenon that is MS. Maybe it´s a waste of time - the results speak for themselves.


#3335 ivand911

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 08:06

In the same carts?

Maybe karts(karting)? My mistake.


#3336 aditya-now

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 08:21

Maybe karts(karting)? My mistake.


Yes, you are right, Ivan, it is karts. Anyway, I was not referring to that but to the fact that karts are usually never the same, as you might know if you have ever participated in some kart races. Of course it would be wide-fetched to think that Michael is favored by being given specially good karts.

My take on it is that karts have basically not changed drastically over the last 30 years, so Michael can still play his strengths in these little machines. F1 has changed drastically, and it seems that Michael has difficulties adapting.

#3337 Diablobb81

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 08:36

:up:

The others have long given up writing on the phenomenon that is MS. Maybe it´s a waste of time - the results speak for themselves.


And the other Schumi fans have long given up responding to nonsense. So, yeah....

#3338 ivand911

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 08:54

Did Michael lose points this year that could show his performance this year in different way? Did he or he did not? For me if he didn't lose this points for different reasons he could be with 80-90 points now. And now we would not have this discussions. Did he lose points this year?

#3339 rog

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 09:00

He never could have 90 points this year so far.

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#3340 man

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 09:05

Did Michael lose points this year that could show his performance this year in different way? Did he or he did not? For me if he didn't lose this points for different reasons he could be with 80-90 points now. And now we would not have this discussions. Did he lose points this year?


Indeed and if his teammate wasn't so much quicker than him and if the opposition drivers weren't so good at overtaking he would have even more points. :-)

#3341 ivand911

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 09:05

Ok,how much he lose? Some good places for him would mean less points for Nico? I would try to make some conservative calculations what he lose.

#3342 cheapracer

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 09:17

Indeed and if his teammate wasn't so much quicker than him

and if the opposition drivers weren't so good at taking him out and his rear wheel didn't fall off and the SC rules were clearer and they didn't have stupid red lights in the pits he would have even more points. :-)


Fixed.


#3343 ivand911

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 09:18

Australia- Kubica was behind him before crash, and he finished second, not to be maximalist let say 3rd place - 15 points. Malaysia - what was his position when his wheel broke, 7th- 6points. Monaco - 7th place - 6 points. Canada - 5th before flat tire - 10 pts , Europe without SC pitstop- 6th - 8pts , GB without out lap mistake(not to say better result with P6 at the start)- 5th - 10pts. Total - 55 pts plus 36 = 91 points. Getting this points mean Nico could lose some points in this races. In Australia Michael could even won it if there wasn't crash on first corner.

Edited by ivand911, 15 July 2010 - 09:21.


#3344 slaveceru

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 09:18

Well, one thing we can definitely read from the poll: in April, the first poll, Michael was placed 8th, now, midseason, he is placed 18th. Seems that most pollers are losing confidence in Michael´s abilities, while they still gave him the benefit of the doubt in April.

It seems that it is only a small group of vocal Schumacher admirers on this BB, like yourselves, I would say twenty. And you keep the rest busy with your sentimental veneration of a driver who is past his sell-by date.

Do you think that for real Schumacher fan really matters if he is past his prime by date or is your agenda only to provoke Schumacher fans?

#3345 rog

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 09:46

Australia- Kubica was behind him before crash, and he finished second, not to be maximalist let say 3rd place - 15 points. Malaysia - what was his position when his wheel broke, 7th- 6points. Monaco - 7th place - 6 points. Canada - 5th before flat tire - 10 pts , Europe without SC pitstop- 6th - 8pts , GB without out lap mistake(not to say better result with P6 at the start)- 5th - 10pts. Total - 55 pts plus 36 = 91 points. Getting this points mean Nico could lose some points in this races. In Australia Michael could even won it if there wasn't crash on first corner.



What a waste of time. You never can know how the race would be continued without the crash with Kubica, it was such a tricky race with difficult strategy decisions and tough duels. So you never never can MS give a 3rd place there. Same goes to Canada, even without the damaged tire Rosberg could have overtake him due to his soft tyres end of the race, differenty stratgey and tyre disadvantage there. So you should give him more likely a 7th place. Valencia, you can't know what pace MS would done and strategy were applied to MS and if Koba did the same to MS and overtake him. The funniest now your Silverstone result, what a bullshit. You should take account of all driver mistakes of all drivers and not only for MS, that would be very biased. So consider Vettels, Alonsos mistake and Kubicas failure etc. and give MS then a 8th place. Also give Rosberg some points for Barcelona, the team messed up his pit stop there. Your calculation is a biased one.

#3346 dav115

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 09:59

Australia- Kubica was behind him before crash, and he finished second, not to be maximalist let say 3rd place - 15 points. Malaysia - what was his position when his wheel broke, 7th- 6points. Monaco - 7th place - 6 points. Canada - 5th before flat tire - 10 pts , Europe without SC pitstop- 6th - 8pts , GB without out lap mistake(not to say better result with P6 at the start)- 5th - 10pts. Total - 55 pts plus 36 = 91 points. Getting this points mean Nico could lose some points in this races. In Australia Michael could even won it if there wasn't crash on first corner.

Not only did he directly lose points in those races as you described, but his championship competitors also gained points as a result of him retiring those races, thus enlarging the points gap between Michael and the rest.

#3347 ivand911

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 10:43

First Kubica and Michael didn't crash in Australia. Really don't know if I have to continue from here? Where in any race you see Nico to overtake Michael? We see the opposite(Michael overtake Nico) some times. In GB Michael was fighting Rubens and they wanted to overtake him with early pit(where they gain 1 sec). If he didn't make this mistake he could be 80% in front of Rubens. Then 5 place(ok let's make it 6th, 2 points difference). Valencia Michael 3rd, Koba 4th before pitstop. If you didn't hear Koba say that he was saving his tires, don't think he could overtake Michael there. Or that he will put his 4th(in the moment) position in danger. Or without knowing if he even could drive together with Michael? I am not biased in my calculation, if any other fan(fan for other driver) want to make calculations what his driver lose , he could do it in his thread and I fully support him and understand. It wasn't only Michael who lose potentially a lot of points. But I made calculations for Michael and using final results. Vettel, Alonso , Massa ,Webber and other, all they lose points. And if someone want he could make calculations like I did.
About Canada can't comment now ,have to check the facts(see the race again). But he overtaking Michael when driving one after another, don't see it happen. But even if we take 10 points from this 55 points ,there are still 45 ,more than he have now. Even with 45+36=81 . At 81 points they would be very match equal. Nico would lose same points because of Michael, they both will be around 80 points now.

Edited by ivand911, 15 July 2010 - 11:08.


#3348 rog

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 11:08

First Kubica and Michael didn't crash in Australia.

That doesn't change the whole point.

Where in any race you see Nico to overtake Michael?

Who told you Nico did overtake him?

We see the opposite(Michael overtake Nico) some times.

Only on race starts and most of the times on the clean side. Since Nico is starting almost every race above Schumacher, it would surprise me to see the opposite. But that wasn't the point and I did not wrote anything about race starts in my last post. It seems you don't understand it.

In GB Michael was fighting Rubens and they wanted to overtake him with early pit(where they gain 1 sec). If he didn't make this mistake he could be 80% in front of Rubens.

It was his own fault and you can't give MS points here. Otherwise you could say in every race "if he didn't drive 1 seconds slower than Nico" No, it is his fault to do such error or drove too slowy. You can only calculate team mistakes or car failures.

I am not biased in my calculation, if any other fan(fan for other driver) want to make calculations what his driver lose

In fact, you make excuses for his poor performance with biased calculations.

#3349 ivand911

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 11:17

Ok in GB we can give him 7th, because he lose two places because SC. Sutil was 6sec, behind him and Vettel -37 sec. Don't think they could overtake him without SC. But in the final of my last post I take 10 points from 55 and they were pretty equal with Nico.

Edited by ivand911, 15 July 2010 - 11:17.


#3350 rog

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 12:01

Ok in GB we can give him 7th, because he lose two places because SC. Sutil was 6sec, behind him and Vettel -37 sec. Don't think they could overtake him without SC. But in the final of my last post I take 10 points from 55 and they were pretty equal with Nico.



Interesting. Valencia where Schumacher won a lot positions with the Safety car did you calculate pro MS while GB you didn't calculated because he lost. You should take it serious and calculate both SCs or nothing.

Edited by rog, 15 July 2010 - 12:02.