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#3601 aditya-now

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 23:11

So you have concluded that Mercedes Benz has rested their whole global marketing strategy on MS' success in F1?



This makes absolutely no sense.Overall car sales have everything to do with the german workforce, since that's were they are producing a lot of cars. Not to mention that they are running at full capacity and even hired new workers. And the fact that Germany isn't the only core market.

So not only are you constantly inventing stuff about Michael, you also have no clue about Merc. :drunk:

"Schumacher is showing terribly this year and it has thrown doubts retrospectively on his career."

Well, good thing you have no doubts about your opinions.


Ah, Sakae and Diablobb 1981!

Here is a link for your further information concerning the Daimler-Benz perspective of the whole Mercedes GP/Michael Schumacher adventure:

http://www.pitpass.c...es_art_id=41447

What money Stuttgart is willing to spend - and it is very little, surprising really when one considers the small fortunes made by the previous 'owners' - is watched very, very carefully, with the bean counters wanting every last nut and bolt accounted for before it is purchased. What hope serious development under those conditions?

In Germany, many were against the purchase of Brawn, especially the unions, and therefore the German manufacturer is under intense scrutiny. Nonetheless, our sources claim that, in the very best Japanese tradition, Mercedes does not want to lose face, and will therefore stick it out for 2011 in the hope that Pirelli rubber will bring a change in fortune... however, some fear that the curse of Brackley remains.

Schumacher too, despite the claims of some, will stick with it, at least for another year, not so much about saving face but because the German still has worthwhile input to provide, whatever his numerous critics might say.


So there is still hope for you and the other Schumacher worshippers - at least 2011 seems realistically on the horizon. Let us hope for Michael that the Pirelli tyre can turn his fate around....


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#3602 aditya-now

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 23:24

Michael's brilliant driving style in 2010:
Posted Image

People like Sutil, Kobayashi and Barrichello are driving circles around him nowadays, the only way MS can salvage himself is by getting dirty (ask Kubica, Massa and Sutil) or by getting tricky (ask Alonso in Monaco).

Is he really the 7 time WDC or just his twin brother as Luca di Montezemolo has pointed out?
A pity if it is really the second greatest F1 driver of all times!




#3603 Birelman

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 00:07

well said Birelman
being in the best car surely helps, but you still need to find the motivation
and the dicipline to put in the effort year in year out.
To still do that, after you have won 4 or 5 WDC, and would have nothing left to prove, get´s respect from my side.
This is by no means an easy sport, a good car count´s for a lot, but you still need to drive it well, and keep all
the people in the team and yourself focused on the goal. This is easier said then done.

IMHO Hamilton,Vettel,Alonso & Button can go on and try to emulate this kind of success.
With Hamilton,Vettel and Alonso having the best chances at the moment.
Purely based on there age, and in what type of car/team they are, at this stage in there careers.
Time will tell what happens.

I´m not a Schumi fan, but I have respect for him and for what he has achieved, as I have respect for the achievements
of any other driver. If you win a WDC you have done something better, then the others at the time.

I was really surprised, that he has come back, as I don´t think he had something left to prove to the world.
And I don´t think he will need the money either.

That he came back, to measure himself against the new generation, is something for which I respect him more now.
It will be interesting to see how it develops.
I hope he will see out the three seasons he has commited to.
Let´s give him some credit. I´m looking forward to next year, good things take time to develop.
I think he (because of his age and his expirience) knows, when there is the time to fight, and when there is the time
to prepare for the fight. I don´t think he will try to "overdrive" his car. He will know, what he and the car can do at the time.
And I´m sure, he will know, where the gains are to be made, and he will be working on it.

I think, it´s good for F1 (in general) to have him back.
So why I may can`t applaud his results at the moment, I do applaud his courage for coming back.


Oh, don't get me wrong man, I have huge respect for Schumacher, always have, always will. I admire his talent. Like with many other drivers, some rabid fans make outrageous claims which brings up what his fans might call an Anti- sentiment. In that respect, I'm a proud Anti-Schumacher :) Cus I hate outrageous claims and the blind use of his stats as proof of the outrageous claims. Yea, for sure, he left his mark with those stats, but they have to be used objectively and counter that with all the circumstances of his era, and the length of his career which has been quite a bit longer than most great champoions.

Edited by Birelman, 18 July 2010 - 00:22.


#3604 Sakae

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 00:16

Ah, Sakae and Diablobb 1981!

Here is a link for your further information concerning the Daimler-Benz perspective of the whole Mercedes GP/Michael Schumacher adventure:

http://www.pitpass.c...es_art_id=41447

What money Stuttgart is willing to spend - and it is very little, surprising really when one considers the small fortunes made by the previous 'owners' - is watched very, very carefully, with the bean counters wanting every last nut and bolt accounted for before it is purchased. What hope serious development under those conditions?

In Germany, many were against the purchase of Brawn, especially the unions, and therefore the German manufacturer is under intense scrutiny. Nonetheless, our sources claim that, in the very best Japanese tradition, Mercedes does not want to lose face, and will therefore stick it out for 2011 in the hope that Pirelli rubber will bring a change in fortune... however, some fear that the curse of Brackley remains.

Schumacher too, despite the claims of some, will stick with it, at least for another year, not so much about saving face but because the German still has worthwhile input to provide, whatever his numerous critics might say.


So there is still hope for you and the other Schumacher worshippers - at least 2011 seems realistically on the horizon. Let us hope for Michael that the Pirelli tyre can turn his fate around....

I thought we were suppose to love Eddie, but not really trust him. BTW aditya-now, while I have your attention, what's your real problem?

#3605 TC3000

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 00:59

Oh, don't get me wrong man, I have huge respect for Schumacher, always have, always will. I admire his talent. Like with many other drivers, some rabid fans make outrageous claims which brings up what his fans might call an Anti- sentiment. In that respect, I'm a proud Anti-Schumacher :) Cus I hate outrageous claims and the blind use of his stats as proof of the outrageous claims. Yea, for sure, he left his mark with those stats, but they have to be used objectively and counter that with all the circumstances of his era, and the length of his career which has been quite a bit longer than most great champoions.


I don´t got you wrong (I hope) Birelman - don´t worry. And I agree with your point of view, I think it´s sensible.
I liked what you said in regards to the car someone drives, and at which state of their careers they are in a good car - that´s all.

This is not a simple sport like running or swimming, you have to have the right equipment/car/team at the right time to succed - no doubt about it.
That IMHO opinion makes discussions about the best of all times etc. rather difficult (impossible in my view).
You can only beat the people which where there at the time, and unless they would all drive in a similar car (like GP2) it will be difficult to say,
who was the best. One guy may wins in GP2 and is nowhere in F1 or visversa, because his driving style was better suited for one car then for the other.
I do believe, that great drivers will succed/win in different cars and different teams, as the best of them have proven.
.
You can be pro or con Schumacher, that´s your choice and fine with me - no poblem at all, everybody is entitled to his own opinion.

Thanks

Edited by TC3000, 18 July 2010 - 01:23.


#3606 black magic

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 02:11

you have to question why spme people watch this sport.

I get the british anti schumacher stuff because with his poor english and prominant jaw he was a cartoonists dream as the antichrist or worse a german.

worse he was a successful german who week in out gave "never" a weak performance.

I get the fact that some of us do go over the top in our opinion of him

I dont get the sneering however against a guy who has given us some of f1 best and a few worst moments.

there are precious few drivers in the last 30 yrs who look quick even in a modern f1 car. think villeneuve(father), mansell, senna, alonso and hamilton. these are the guys who when they are on it even the uneducated can see the car twitching on the edge of traction with or without mechanical aids it makes no difference. these are also the guys who have deswtroyed their cars in the refusal to allow the better car to get away.

you can keep all your preservation of tyres and keeping their fuel economy up. they do not bring the fans to the sport and they are not why I watch the sport.

who knows who is or was the greatest - truth is even schumacher would deny he was THE greatest . but to exclude from top 3 or 5 is simply silly whether he always followed the rules or not.

people like mika never "liked" the guy but respected him for his ability and speed. too much to ask others to do the same? is it really a shocking thing for a 7 wdc to want to partake again in a sport he dominated for the simple love of going hard and winning. don't seem like crimes to me - just the sole of a guy who was born to race and only feels really alive when he's driving a f1 car on the limit?



#3607 Schuperman

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 06:32

people like mika never "liked" the guy but respected him for his ability and speed. too much to ask others to do the same? is it really a shocking thing for a 7 wdc to want to partake again in a sport he dominated for the simple love of going hard and winning. don't seem like crimes to me - just the sole of a guy who was born to race and only feels really alive when he's driving a f1 car on the limit?


IMO Some might feel insecure if this guy keep on continuing. That's why they are asking for this guy to quit. Or being replaced by Heidfeld.

What if somehow he manages to get his car working to his liking and become dominant. And start on winning? Based on his CV, the chances are there.

And I agree with Mika's assessment. The chances are there.

#3608 ivand911

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 07:42

Michael's brilliant driving style in 2010:
Posted Image

People like Sutil, Kobayashi and Barrichello are driving circles around him nowadays, the only way MS can salvage himself is by getting dirty (ask Kubica, Massa and Sutil) or by getting tricky (ask Alonso in Monaco).

Is he really the 7 time WDC or just his twin brother as Luca di Montezemolo has pointed out?
A pity if it is really the second greatest F1 driver of all times!

Is this is you best shot? I will comment it. You don't need any special device to see, Michael tires was dead,finish,kaput. And still Liuzzi was more than a meter from apex. It was not like, Michael not giving him space. And with this tires you don't need corner to overtake, you can do it on the straight. Bad thinking from Liuzzi. He have enough room, not to hit Michael here? He can control his car better. And still Michael is in front, then he can chose his line.
You not deserve to be called GP driver, if you can't beat somebody with tires so bad.


#3609 cheapracer

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 08:50

And still Liuzzi was more than a meter from apex.
You not deserve to be called GP driver, if you can't beat somebody with tires so bad.


I noticed on the video I watched how far Liuzzi came over on him, thought it was a bit strange.

Maybe aditya-now thinks the dark to black graining on the tyres is part of the teams colour scheme?

aditya-now what is your problem, you posts are going looney - I note the times of your posts, man you spend far too much time here, take a break for your own health.

FWIW MS's pass on Alonso? One of the highlights this year and I would hope there will be more "tricky" passes like that from the entire field instead of the bitching and moaning passing thats become the norm.

"Alonso's done a great pass on me, I pushed him off the track to f*** him off for being faster than me but complain immediately anyway, I want my place back!" (Kubica parody).


#3610 Henrytheeigth

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 09:14

You think?


Yep, even the best driver in the world can't make a dog of a car go faster and win. Unless the rest dnf lol

#3611 aditya-now

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 10:09

I thought we were suppose to love Eddie, but not really trust him.


The facts concerning the Daimler-Benz situation have nothing to do with Eddie Jordan, as has been said, the whole Mercedes GP project is not under such a good star - the board might cancel the whole F 1 project sooner than you guys think.

Were it successful Norbert Haug would have a better chance to keep it running, but with the given elements we will see how far they will go.
Last hope Pirelli, isn't that ironical?

A car maker like Mercedes and a legendary driver like Michael Schumacher pinning their last hopes on the Italian tyre maker..... :lol:


BTW aditya-now, while I have your attention, what's your real problem?


Maybe aditya-now thinks the dark to black graining on the tyres is part of the teams colour scheme?
aditya-now what is your problem, you posts are going looney - I note the times of your posts, man you spend far too much time here, take a break for your own health.


When you can't get your own arguments right, get personal with the poster who reveals the things you don't like to hear. Wonderful strategy. :)

Edited by aditya-now, 18 July 2010 - 10:45.


#3612 Simon Says

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 10:14

Yep, even the best driver in the world can't make a dog of a car go faster and win. Unless the rest dnf lol


Lewis 2009, inferior car to the Red Bulls and Brawn GP, yet outscoring everybody in 2nd half of the season.

Senna in 1993 with a vastly inferior Mclaren beating Damon Hill and finished 2nd in the championship with 5 race wins. :wave:

edit: And also Kimi in 2009, a car that was not developed after Turkey, yet outscored the Red Bull and Brawn GP drivers :lol:

Edited by Simon Says, 18 July 2010 - 10:16.


#3613 ivand911

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 10:18

McLaren in second half of the season was second best car after RBR. This why his results. On some tracks was the best.

Edited by ivand911, 18 July 2010 - 10:21.


#3614 Sakae

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 10:36

The facts concerning the Daimler-Benz situation have nothing to do with Eddie Jordan, as has been said, the whole Mercedes GP project is not under such a good star - the board might cancel the whole F 1 project sooner than you guys think.

Were it successful Norbert Haug would have a better chance to keep it running, but with the given elements we will see how far they will go.
Last hope Pirelli, isn't that ironical?

A car maker like Mercedes and a legendary driver like Michael Schumacher pinning their last hopes on the Italian tyre maker..... :lol:







When you can't get your own arguments right, get personal with the poster who reveals the things you don't like to hear. Wonderful strategy. :)


Don't sell yourself short. I am lazy to print in proper sequence whole exchange, but you are yet to answer directly one question that was asked. Maybe you are brainstorming as you write...




#3615 AlainProstX

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 10:40

Senna in 1993 with a vastly inferior Mclaren beating Damon Hill and finished 2nd in the championship with 5 race wins. :wave:


I remember that season, it was great. Even as a Prost fan I have to admit that Senna deserved that title much more.
This season showed how great Senna was, his car was maybe just slightly better then Schumachers Benetton. In the end he still pulled 5 victories out of it, only 2 less then Prost in his superior Williams.

#3616 aditya-now

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 10:41

The facts concerning the Daimler-Benz situation have nothing to do with Eddie Jordan, as has been said, the whole Mercedes GP project is not under such a good star - the board might cancel the whole F 1 project sooner than you guys think.

Were it successful Norbert Haug would have a better chance to keep it running, but with the given elements we will see how far they will go.


Posted Image


Norbert Haug and Nick Fry feeling the heat.

Edited by aditya-now, 18 July 2010 - 10:45.


#3617 Dragonfly

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 10:42

McLaren in second half of the season was second best car after RBR. This why his results. On some tracks was the best.

Don't spoil the hater party with objectivity :)


#3618 aditya-now

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 11:50

http://www.spiegel.d...,707043,00.html

Some nice words by Sebastian Vettel on Michael Schumacher:

An das Gelingen des Comebacks von Michael Schumacher, 41, glaubt Vettel trotz der Probleme des siebenmaligen Weltmeisters weiterhin. "Es ist alles andere als einfach, nach dreijähriger Pause zurückzukehren, selbst wenn man, wie er, nie ganz verschwunden war aus der Formel 1", sagt Vettel. "Die Autos haben sich verändert, die Reifen auch. Viele Dinge sind nicht mehr so, wie er sie gewohnt war." Vettel ist davon überzeugt, dass Schumacher die Schwierigkeiten in den Griff bekommt: "Wenn jemand das schafft, dann er. Wenn ich ihm ins Gesicht schaue und seine Körpersprache lese, dann sehe ich keine Verunsicherung oder gar Panik."

Vettel is convinced that Schumacher will overcome his troubles. "If anyone succeeds in doing this, then it will be him. When I look into his face and read his body language, then I do not see a trace of insecurity or panic."

#3619 aditya-now

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 14:53

http://motorsport.ne...eam-lineup.html

And some nice words from Norbert Haug on Schumacher:

"For the rest of the year Michael will concentrate on achieving the absolute best results. And next year he will go for the title," he is quoted by Kicker magazine.

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#3620 Henrytheeigth

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 15:25

http://motorsport.ne...eam-lineup.html

And some nice words from Norbert Haug on Schumacher:

"For the rest of the year Michael will concentrate on achieving the absolute best results. And next year he will go for the title," he is quoted by Kicker magazine.


Yes but in what sport? :lol: nice to make fun of MS these days now he is no longer associated with Ferrari :wave:

#3621 aditya-now

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 15:28

Yes but in what sport? :lol: nice to make fun of MS these days now he is no longer associated with Ferrari :wave:


Norbert Haug was interviewed about Mercedes GP in 2011 - his stance is of course in F1.
I don´t think that Norbert was trying to make fun of Michael, I think he rather said that in order to support MS.

#3622 Henrytheeigth

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 15:29

Norbert Haug was interviewed about Mercedes GP in 2011 - his stance is of course in F1.
I don´t think that Norbert was trying to make fun of Michael, I think he rather said that in order to support MS.


No mate I was making fun of MS with my post :)

#3623 Yorkie

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 15:36

I guess we shall never know...coz look at last year when his car was a dog, so was he lol



Yep, even the best driver in the world can't make a dog of a car go faster and win. Unless the rest dnf lol

...and that makes Lewis a dog of a driver in that situation?

#3624 Henrytheeigth

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 15:39

...and that makes Lewis a dog of a driver in that situation?


lol defensive aint ya? Sitting behind me is the MP4-23 of Lewis, so not like I hate him. I just meant he may as well be since a bad car can't make him a superstar, well not these days with the bs bad air and ddd lol

#3625 aditya-now

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 15:42

No mate I was making fun of MS with my post :)


Ah, I missed that one...

I join your royal laughter!


#3626 Henrytheeigth

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 15:44

Ah, I missed that one...

I join your royal laughter!


The best kind mate :D

Anyway if MS does succeed, then I shall be happy, honestly. Don't you hate when someone says honestly in a sentence often? MS and Domenicalli say it often lol. Yea if he does well then all the better for more drivers being able to win. :)

#3627 aditya-now

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 15:48

The best kind mate :D

Anyway if MS does succeed, then I shall be happy, honestly. Don't you hate when someone says honestly in a sentence often? MS and Domenicalli say it often lol. Yea if he does well then all the better for more drivers being able to win. :)


Honestly, it always made me think. Obviously there is a reason for someone saying honestly all the time... :lol:

And yeah, you are right, it´s great MS is not blocking Ferrari anymore, it´s now the Scuderia again, albeit a bit back to it´s lack of success before the dream team arrived in Maranello.



Concerning Michael succeeding, if only for one GP, please read my post from another thread:

Dare I say, although I never have liked Michael, I still wish him success and at least one GP victory.

If he manages that, it will be legend, making news all around the world. Good for everyone, and everyone will be cheering Michael.
Remember how Rubens came back into the pitlane after his first win after five years in 2009? How everyone was cheering him?

Now imagine that with Michael!



#3628 Yorkie

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 15:52

lol defensive aint ya? Sitting behind me is the MP4-23 of Lewis, so not like I hate him. I just meant he may as well be since a bad car can't make him a superstar, well not these days with the bs bad air and ddd lol

So why was Alonso signed by Ferrari on the back of his 2009 season with Renault?

Having a bad car doesnt stop a driver being rated all of a sudden after his reputation has already been made, although you seem to think otherwise

#3629 Henrytheeigth

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 15:57

So why was Alonso signed by Ferrari on the back of his 2009 season with Renault?

Having a bad car doesnt stop a driver being rated all of a sudden after his reputation has already been made, although you seem to think otherwise


Coz he is a WDCx2?

#3630 Yorkie

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 16:09

Coz he is a WDCx2?

The wording seemed to be once Lewis had to drive a bad car then it showed he was no better than anyone else because nobody can win in a bad car

#3631 Henrytheeigth

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 16:24

The wording seemed to be once Lewis had to drive a bad car then it showed he was no better than anyone else because nobody can win in a bad car


Spoken like a true New Yorkie! :lol:

#3632 DanardiF1

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 17:32

Senna was correct, later was found that MS did have illegal driving aids on his Benetton. :rolleyes:

Senna was that good of a driver to put that shitheap of a Williams on pole positions 3 times in a row yes, that's how good he was.

Williams improved their car massively, that shows you how little chance MS really had against Senna if he was still around.

edit: But I believe this topic is about MS, so no idea why people keep bringing up Senna :rotfl:

First let MS proof himself to beat a top driver, then we can talk about being the best driver in F1. Beating someone like Irvine is not impressive and being #1 in a team :rolleyes:

2006 is all the proof that is needed for me. Alonso in an inferior Renault beat MS that year. Drivers like Alonso and Lewis can beat MS in the same car ( and Senna )


that Renault was not inferior... Fisichella was. Also I put Alonso's titles down to Michelin really...

As for Schumacher/Hakkinen... by the 3rd grand prix Schumacher could beat a McLaren that was still over 0.5 seconds a lap quicker... i've never seen Schumacher drive better than he did that year... and Hakkinen in the same car would've suffered against Schumi in that form.




#3633 slaveceru

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 17:33

No.. I am just saying that Michael is not as good as 91 wins and 66 poles indicates

Imagine if Button was lucky enough to keep that Brawn dominating car for 6 full seasons

Button retires with 75 wins and 50 poles... ok.. he did his job

Someone would think he is better than Prost, Senna, Clark or Alonso... but it is clear that he is not as good as those stats shows.. the stats are inflated by a benefic circumstance.. the fact that he raced alone in a dominating car for a very long period of time

Someone who actually understands F1 would put these inflated numbers in perspective.. and give credit to Jenson for getting the job done with a MONSTER car.. but would know he is not the ultragenious the numbers seem to suggest

I think that Alonso has to show a little bit more to be in the same company like Prost, Senna, Clark or Schumacher.

#3634 Johnrambo

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 17:39

by the 3rd grand prix Schumacher could beat a McLaren that was still over 0.5 seconds a lap quicker...


Really? Please share the source where you got this information from. What was evident in -98 like in many other years was that because of tyre competition between Goodyear and Bridgestone the competitiveness of Ferrari and McLaren varied wildly.

#3635 DanardiF1

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 17:46

Really? Please share the source where you got this information from. What was evident in -98 like in many other years was that because of tyre competition between Goodyear and Bridgestone the competitiveness of Ferrari and McLaren varied wildly.


Coulthard's pole position in Arg was 0.4 seconds quicker than MSC's best, in Brazil before it was 1.2 seconds between Hakkinen and MSC, and in Australia 0.7 seconds... so not just Goodyear/Bridgestone fluctuation, but improvement from Ferrari and great driving from Schumacher.

#3636 slaveceru

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 17:49

Because I know a thing or two about racing and no driver is THAT much faster than another.

Could you be more precise? So how fast was Schumacher in your assumtion. So how much did Schumacher get from that car 100 % 110 % or what?

#3637 slaveceru

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 17:55

Just because Red Bull does something stupid, it does not make Ferrari the same.
In any case, do you really think Schumacher was slower than Irvine, Barrichello, Massa, Herbert, Verstrappen or Brundle ?

So what about Hakinen how much slower was Hakkinen?

#3638 slaveceru

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 18:04

IMHO there can't be one, who's the greatest of all times. Every one of the greats has accomplished this in a particular period of time from history POV and under the conditions that have been dominant at that time.

For that reason I do not participate in polls trying to establish who's the greatest of all times.
Lauda for example was a legend back then even though following motor sport and F1 in particular was not easy behind the Iron Curtain.

:up:

#3639 Birelman

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 22:53

Could you be more precise? So how fast was Schumacher in your assumtion. So how much did Schumacher get from that car 100 % 110 % or what?

Dude, WTH is it that you are trying to measure, the size of his greatness?

Schumacher was a great driver, what difference does it make how great? What exactly is it that you want me to say? All I do know is that, even you, with the same experience and training that these drivers have would be able to lap within a second of them. So, my point is that, Yes, Schumacher was better than Irvine and all of his teammates, but we just can't measure by what margin, specially not with the circumstances inside Ferrari during the MS era. That's all. Is that such an insult? How dare I not believe that Schumacher wasn't 5 seconds faster than the competition? Is that what this is all about?

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#3640 Jazza

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 23:54

Coulthard's pole position in Arg was 0.4 seconds quicker than MSC's best, in Brazil before it was 1.2 seconds between Hakkinen and MSC, and in Australia 0.7 seconds... so not just Goodyear/Bridgestone fluctuation, but improvement from Ferrari and great driving from Schumacher.


Seems clear that the difference was a combination of tyre performance and track differences. Firstly, Goodyear brought their new wider fronts to Argentina giving an improvement. Secondly, the Ferrari was likely the same car in both races having been back to back flyaway races to south America.

On a side note, a .5 second advantage in qualifying back in 98 meant nothing come Sunday. Car performance back in those days was radically different between Saturday and Sunday due to the tyre war, race fuel load vs qualifying fuel load, sunday morning warm up changes, plus all the other changes such as qualifying engines and qualifying aero parts etc.

#3641 slaveceru

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 03:42

you have to question why spme people watch this sport.

I get the british anti schumacher stuff because with his poor english and prominant jaw he was a cartoonists dream as the antichrist or worse a german.

worse he was a successful german who week in out gave "never" a weak performance.

I get the fact that some of us do go over the top in our opinion of him

I dont get the sneering however against a guy who has given us some of f1 best and a few worst moments.

there are precious few drivers in the last 30 yrs who look quick even in a modern f1 car. think villeneuve(father), mansell, senna, alonso and hamilton. these are the guys who when they are on it even the uneducated can see the car twitching on the edge of traction with or without mechanical aids it makes no difference. these are also the guys who have deswtroyed their cars in the refusal to allow the better car to get away.

you can keep all your preservation of tyres and keeping their fuel economy up. they do not bring the fans to the sport and they are not why I watch the sport.

who knows who is or was the greatest - truth is even schumacher would deny he was THE greatest . but to exclude from top 3 or 5 is simply silly whether he always followed the rules or not.

people like mika never "liked" the guy but respected him for his ability and speed. too much to ask others to do the same? is it really a shocking thing for a 7 wdc to want to partake again in a sport he dominated for the simple love of going hard and winning. don't seem like crimes to me - just the sole of a guy who was born to race and only feels really alive when he's driving a f1 car on the limit?

:up:

Edited by slaveceru, 19 July 2010 - 03:43.


#3642 slaveceru

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 04:29

Dude, WTH is it that you are trying to measure, the size of his greatness?

Schumacher was a great driver, what difference does it make how great? What exactly is it that you want me to say? All I do know is that, even you, with the same experience and training that these drivers have would be able to lap within a second of them. So, my point is that, Yes, Schumacher was better than Irvine and all of his teammates, but we just can't measure by what margin, specially not with the circumstances inside Ferrari during the MS era. That's all. Is that such an insult? How dare I not believe that Schumacher wasn't 5 seconds faster than the competition? Is that what this is all about?

No it is not but then again you do not know how fast Schumacher was in reality do you and you also do not know how fast Ferrari was in 1996 do you? I also do not know how fast Schumacher or Ferrari was in those days and I do not care but you are just doing it all the tame are you not. Now one of us here on these forums can estimate the raw speed of the driver in the F1 cars because the driver and his car make the whole construct. In my opinion the car is the major contributor to the success and the driver contribute only the small margin in modern F1 sport. Here is my opinion 90 % of the success is down to the car or even more to be honest I think that 95 % is down to the car and I think that general difference between the drivers in the F1 grid is less then 0,1 %.

#3643 Birelman

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 05:02

No it is not but then again you do not know how fast Schumacher was in reality do you and you also do not know how fast Ferrari was in 1996 do you? I also do not know how fast Schumacher or Ferrari was in those days and I do not care but you are just doing it all the tame are you not. Now one of us here on these forums can estimate the raw speed of the driver in the F1 cars because the driver and his car make the whole construct. In my opinion the car is the major contributor to the success and the driver contribute only the small margin in modern F1 sport. Here is my opinion 90 % of the success is down to the car or even more to be honest I think that 95 % is down to the car and I think that general difference between the drivers in the F1 grid is less then 0,1 %.

I think you said the same thing I said LOL

Anyway, yes, you're right to think the biggest contributor is the car, and it's up to the driver to extract that potential. You're also correct in thinking that the difference between the F1 drivers is very small, that's why it's silly to claim driver X displays the real potential of a car and driver A is driving over those limits. Or that driver A is 1.2 seconds faster than driver X because he out qualified him by such margin. They're just silly claims that are based on whatever the reader gathers by reading stats and such, not by knowledge and understanding of the sport. When the gaps are so large, there's something out of place, and more than meets the eye.

So, we agree on a lot, maybe we just misunderstood each other before or something.

#3644 ivand911

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 06:40

Vettel: Schumacher is ‘not just anybody’
http://www.formula1b.....a 1 Blog.com)


#3645 slaveceru

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 06:53

I think you said the same thing I said LOL

Anyway, yes, you're right to think the biggest contributor is the car, and it's up to the driver to extract that potential. You're also correct in thinking that the difference between the F1 drivers is very small, that's why it's silly to claim driver X displays the real potential of a car and driver A is driving over those limits. Or that driver A is 1.2 seconds faster than driver X because he out qualified him by such margin. They're just silly claims that are based on whatever the reader gathers by reading stats and such, not by knowledge and understanding of the sport. When the gaps are so large, there's something out of place, and more than meets the eye.

So, we agree on a lot, maybe we just misunderstood each other before or something.

:up:

#3646 cheapracer

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 06:57

:up:


Stop the group hug crap you're making me sick, this is the Atlas F1 forums - harden the f*** up god dam it!!

Edited by cheapracer, 19 July 2010 - 07:00.


#3647 ivand911

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 06:59

:rotfl:

#3648 Johnrambo

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 07:29

Vettel: Schumacher is ‘not just anybody’
http://www.formula1b.....a 1 Blog.com)


Indeed Vettel is right. If MS was just anybody he would out of drive right now.

Edited by Johnrambo, 19 July 2010 - 07:29.


#3649 slaveceru

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 07:34

Stop the group hug crap you're making me sick, this is the Atlas F1 forums - harden the f*** up god dam it!!

So what is your problem? Did you weak up with the left foot?

#3650 ivand911

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 07:36

So what is your problem? Did you weak up with the left foot?

I think he was joking?