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#3701 ivand911

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 07:02

I don't know who will have the best car next year, but if they(MGP) want to fight for WDC and WCC they need very good car. This is what I am saying. Don't know why you put Renault and Williams here? If they make good car they can fight for titles too. As we all see surprises happens. Your last question is good, but I don't know if we will know the answer soon or ever. I would be happy to see them both in good car like RBR, McLaren just to see the answer for this question. If the car was Ferrari(good car too) maybe Michael will have advantage.

Edited by ivand911, 23 July 2010 - 07:04.


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#3702 ivand911

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 09:25

Michael have a problem? He stay to much in the box, but is still good his car is in one piece.

#3703 SeanValen

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 10:03

Well, one thing is sure consistent, his fans share his same spirit and determination, even if unreallistic :)



Lets talk what's realistic
magazine sport issue 169

"I don't exhause myself. I have an average heart rate of around 130-140. If you have a heart rate of this for one and half hours you can cope quite easily. I've had teamates who I've seen with average heart rate of 185, so that's the difference. It only takes a day for me to be back to normal.



He's not old as most 41 year old guys are, The key


"Don't underestimate him. He'll make it work." Eddie Jordan


"It took me seven years to win my first race because it's not easy. Michael has returned with a new team and it will take a really long time to adapt to the car, the new regulations and his team. I think he will get better, but it's going to be tough." Hakkinen



Stamina

"The german trains for between two and three hours a day which is similar, if not more then when he was in his 20s. He trains at an attitude of 1000-2000 metres which helps to increase oxygen intake and his average heart rate of 130-140 is unheard of in motorsport." (Bascially if you have exericised as much as Schumacher in your life, you'll been increase your oxygen intake which helps reduce the mental decline in ones mind and abilities, as much as having a strong heart rate, you bascially have delayed the aging process, Michael thinks he's between 25-30 years old physically, and he's right, in the past he didn't open to such things as average heart rate.)

Now we need to compare other drivers average heart rates compared to his, and I'm sure he's one of the leaders if not up there. I think he could go strong for 6-7 years in f1, but I see him doing like 3-4 years and maybe 5, if he's this fit in his early 40s, he'll be on Rubens level in his 50s at worst.

He has time on his side given how freakishly fit he is for 41."



Button on MS
http://msnsport.skys...6274938,00.html

Asked whether he had any doubts Schumacher will continue racing next year, Button replied: "I don't think he can quit now. He has to stay next year.

"He has to stay until he is winning races, for himself, to leave the sport."




Button is right.



Edited by SeanValen, 23 July 2010 - 10:12.


#3704 man

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 10:11

Lets talk what's realistic
magazine sport issue 169



He's not old as most 41 year old guys are, The key


"Don't underestimate him. He'll make it work." Eddie Jordan


"It took me seven years to win my first race because it's not easy. Michael has returned with a new team and it will take a really long time to adapt to the car, the new regulations and his team. I think he will get better, but it's going to be tough."



Stamina

"The german trains for between two and three hours a day which is similar, if not more then when he was in his 20s. He trains at an attitude of 1000-2000 metres which helps to increase oxygen intake and his average heart rate of 130-140 is unheart of in motorsport."

Now we need to compare other drivers average hear rates compared to his, and I'm sure he's one of the leaders if not up there. I think he could go strong for 6-7 years in f1, but I see him doing like 3-4 years and maybe 5, if he's this fit in his early 40s, he'll be on Rubens level in his 50s at worst.


I don't think M Schumachers fitness has every really been in question despite his age. His fitness is easilly good enough to compete in F1 and as you say good enough to compete for some years to come. Both he and Ross have said he is as sharp now as he was in 2006.

His real genuine concern is can he be a success without the magic formula of money, key personel, testing, preferential treatment that he had at Ferrari? 10 races in...things arent looking exactly promising for him or his fans...

Edited by man, 23 July 2010 - 10:15.


#3705 aditya-now

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 10:14

Lets talk what's realistic
magazine sport issue 169



He's not old as most 41 year old guys are, The key


"Don't underestimate him. He'll make it work." Eddie Jordan


"It took me seven years to win my first race because it's not easy. Michael has returned with a new team and it will take a really long time to adapt to the car, the new regulations and his team. I think he will get better, but it's going to be tough." Hakkinen



Stamina

"The german trains for between two and three hours a day which is similar, if not more then when he was in his 20s. He trains at an attitude of 1000-2000 metres which helps to increase oxygen intake and his average heart rate of 130-140 is unheard of in motorsport." (Bascially if you have exericised as much as Schumacher in your life, you'll been increase your oxygen intake which helps reduce the mental decline in ones mind and abilities, as much as having a strong heart rate, you bascially have delayed the aging process, Michael thinks he's between 25-30 years old physically, and he's right, in the past he didn't open to such things as average heart rate.)

Now we need to compare other drivers average heart rates compared to his, and I'm sure he's one of the leaders if not up there. I think he could go strong for 6-7 years in f1, but I see him doing like 3-4 years and maybe 5, if he's this fit in his early 40s, he'll be on Rubens level in his 50s at worst.

He has time on his side given how freakishly fit he is for 41."



Button on MS
http://msnsport.skys...6274938,00.html





Button is right.



It´s not that I doubt that Button is right.
I doubt whether Schumacher still has the capacity to fulfill his promise.

First of all he should start beating his teammate, otherwise he will be a mere Barrichello to Rosberg....

#3706 SeanValen

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 10:27

His real genuine concern is can he be a success without the magic formula of money, key personel, testing, preferential treatment that he had at Ferrari?



You can relate the magic formula to Mika Hakkinen, 7 years of f1 before his first f1 win
Michael might not win 7 titless again, but is anyone expecting 7 titles from every driver now? It's so far been done with one driver. Were talking about one mercedes title, that's his target, being the best driver doesn't always relate to winning the title, Michael may prove he's as good as he was and not win the title in one season, and then the next season he's gets a very good car, and that will be the same for other drivers.

One of the reasons MS is back is lack of testing, it means yes, it'll take longer to learn things, but he gets more time with his family and given how many fly away races there are, perhaps lack of testing is going to keep him around alot longer then he might of been around had he come back with testing. The regulations have forced Michael to be more laid back to his driver role, at ferrari he was testing, behind the scenes, arriving early at tests to set examples to his merchanics, he put in the hours, while other drivers like Hakkinen, Montoya, Ralf, Rubens, all these guys went on holidays while MS spent time with the team, especially in lead up to championship fights, he put in more time, and the rules allowed him then to be apart of that process, it's a different process now, MS is more like Mika Hakkinen now when he was at mclaren, Mika was not involved at mclaren on the level michael was technically at ferrari, and now with mercedes-no testing, new parts and things with simulations in factory, MS must sit on the bench and just drive, his role of team driver integration won't work the same as it used to be, but Mika, Montoya, Button, Webber, Couthard, and others have all won races without being the perfectionist MS was behind scenes as well as front, so this MS era is more relaxed. So about 1 mercedes title should be on the cards with a guy who's won 5 with his previous team and 2 with the team before, and how many drivers in the current bunch have won titles in 2 different teams? MS is going for his 3rd team title ambition, Alonso is looking for a 2nd team title target, failed at Mclaren, and now trying to reap the rewards of modern day ferrari.

Edited by SeanValen, 23 July 2010 - 10:38.


#3707 man

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 10:34

You can relate the magic formula to Mika Hakkinen, 7 years of f1 before his first f1 win
Michael might not win 7 titless again, but is anyone expecting 7 titles from every driver now? It's so far been done with one driver. Were talking about one mercedes title, that's his target, being the best driver doesn't always relate to winning the title, Michael may prove he's as good as he was and not win the title in one season, and then the next season he's gets a very good car, and that will be the same for other drivers.

One of the reasons MS is back is lack of testing, it means yes, it'll take longer to learn things, but he gets more time with his family and given how many fly away races there are, perhaps lack of testing is going to keep him around alot longer then he might of been around had he come back with testing. The regulations have forced Michael to be more laid back to his driver role, at ferrari he was testing, behind the scenes, arriving early at tests to set examples to his merchanics, he put in the hours, while other drivers like Hakkinen, Montoya, Ralf, Rubens, all these guys went on holidays while MS spent time with the team, especially in lead up to championship fights, he put in more time, and the rules allowed him then to be apart of that process, it's a different process now, MS is more like Mika Hakkinen now when he was at mclaren, Mika was not involved at mclaren on the level michael was technically at ferrari, and now with mercedes-no testing, new parts and things with simulations in factory, MS must sit on the bench and just drive, his role of team driver integration won't work the same as it used to be, but Mika, Montoya, Button, Webber, Couthard, and others have all won races without being the perfectionist MS was behind scenes as well as front, so this MS era is more relaxed.


I agree with most of what you have said. His comitment before he retired was second to none. It was his life. Other than the lack of testing though, I dont think M Schumacher puts in any less effort than he did before. He is still giving it his all and from the interviews I have seen, he seems to say pretty much the same thing. He is still at it behind the scenes no less than yesteryear. The lack of testing puts him on a level playing field to his teammate which wasnt the case before with Irvine in particular. And with this level playing field ( a new experience for M Schumacher) suddenly his teammate can have a fair crack at it. And the results are there for all to see...


#3708 SeanValen

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 10:47

The lack of testing puts him on a level playing field to his teammate which wasnt the case before with Irvine in particular. And with this level playing field ( a new experience for M Schumacher) suddenly his teammate can have a fair crack at it. And the results are there for all to see...



Currently he's not consistent in this car, and without comparing MS through more then 1 mercedes f1 season, you won't get any answers, it's why he's looking forward to 2011 to drive a non jenson button designed f1 car, and we all know MS is a freak of nature in how he sets up cars, he's different, he hasn't made the soft tyres work this season, and hard compound/soft can effect and be effected with different styles, MS drives a different way, so until he's driven in at least another mercedes f1 car other then this one, I wouldn't make too much of this year, that's the mistake you and alot are making, give him his 3 year contract time with mercedes and remember what I writ here today in 2 years time, or 1 years time, and remember that I was right on this day, but only after being patient. And MS is patient, and you must learn to be the same, we are watching the greatest living f1 legend go for a 8th title,
MS at Spain/Turkey/Monaco were races were he found set ups to extract his style, and he did well, don't forget those races, they are important in his struggles this year, remember this post from a year from now, copy/paste it, and pm me and say I was right.



#3709 bobban86

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 10:49

MS at Spain/Turkey/Monaco were races were he found set ups to extract his style, and he did well, don't forget those races, they are important in his struggles this year, remember this post from a year from now, copy/paste it, and pm me and say I was right.


Very true! And the Monaco pass at the last lap showed that he has not given up that fighting spirit ;)


#3710 Lifew12

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 10:53

committed to F1 in what capacity, driver or manager?


Committed as a driver, from his angle. The question is whether Mercedes is still commited to him, and how long they can afford to pay for a name.

#3711 man

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 11:02

Currently he's not consistent in this car,


He is in the same car as Rosberg, and the beating he is taking from him most certainly is consistent.

and without comparing MS through more then 1 mercedes f1 season, you won't get any answers,


First it was a few tests, then a few races, now wait for 2 seasons.

I wouldn't make too much of this year, that's the mistake you and alot are making,


Of course, we should just forget it, because Rosberg is beating him in the same car in an equal environment. Ok then, you win, i'll try not to mention it again.

Edited by man, 23 July 2010 - 11:03.


#3712 ivand911

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 11:04

BBC pit-lane reporter Ted Kravitz: "I've just spoken to Mercedes GP boss Ross Brawn about the reasoning in sending Michael Schumacher out on full wets at the end of that session, and he told me that they've actually got a problem with their new rear wing so, while they're sorting that out, they simply did not want to use another set of tyres."

#3713 SeanValen

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 11:13

Of course, we should just forget it, because Rosberg is beating him in the same car in an equal environment. Ok then, you win, i'll try not to mention it again.



ROSBERG 0 WINS 0 TITLES

SCHUMACHER 91 WINS 7 TITLES- WET WINS, STRATEGY DRIVES-CHAMPIONSHIP CONTENTION SEASONS AND FIGHTS 94-95-97-98-2000-2001-2002-2003-2004-2006
3 DECADES OF RIVALS



ROSBERG 0 WINS 0 TITLES
WINS UNDER PRESSURE-CHAMPIONSHIP PRESSURE= 0
1 DECADE OF RIVALS-NO RIVALS FOR TITLES YET, JUST THE NAME OF SCHUMACHER IN HIS TEAM TO MAKE A NAME OF WHILE CHASHING CONTRUCTORS POINTS WHILE SCHUMI LEARNS, NOT MUCH TO WRITE HOME ABOUT JUST YET,


RETIRED AND RETURNED IN 3RD DECADE WITHIN THE SPORT WITH 3RD TEAM WITH AMBITION TO RELEARN AND GO FOR 8TH TITLE = IS THIS ROSBERG? NO, IS IT SCHUMI YES



ROSBERG DOING GOOD JOB-YES VERY GOOD

CONCLUSION, WAIT OVER 2-3 YEARS TO SEE PROPER COMPARISONS
LONG TERM THINKING, SHORT TERM THINKING IS EASY AND CONVIENT BUT NOT CONCLUSIVE ENOUGH.


Edited by SeanValen, 23 July 2010 - 11:17.


#3714 rog

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 11:29

BBC pit-lane reporter Ted Kravitz: "I've just spoken to Mercedes GP boss Ross Brawn about the reasoning in sending Michael Schumacher out on full wets at the end of that session, and he told me that they've actually got a problem with their new rear wing so, while they're sorting that out, they simply did not want to use another set of tyres."



Oh another problem with their new package. Valencia reloaded. :drunk:

#3715 Jazza

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 12:59

ROSBERG 0 WINS 0 TITLES


....due to being at Williams for years in cars that had no chance of a victory.

I've noticed a lot of Schumacher fans in this thread talking about MS's great stats and Rosberg's lack of success in his career so far. Doesn't that make MS's season look even worse? The fact that he is not being beating by Alonso or Hamilton in the same car, but by someone who has thus far achieved nothing. There seems to be a lack of logic in this. Now if MS finds his form what can be deduced? He beat someone who has zero wins and zero titles ( a signature of his career mind you).

Personally I think Rosberg is a good driver, and given race winning equipment would have no problem bringing home the goods just like Massa, Barrichello, and Button showed when they got their break out of the midfield. Hence why I think MS is actually doing a very good job considering the context of his return. He is probably only a tenth or two shy of his prime speed, and if he finds a bit of consistency and gets the car to work for him he will probably be nearly as good as ever (Which sadly will result in zero win and zero titles unless Mercedes make a faster car... just like Rosberg).

#3716 warmandog

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 13:23

ROSBERG 0 WINS 0 TITLES

SCHUMACHER 91 WINS 7 TITLES- WET WINS, STRATEGY DRIVES-CHAMPIONSHIP CONTENTION SEASONS AND FIGHTS 94-95-97-98-2000-2001-2002-2003-2004-2006
3 DECADES OF RIVALS



ROSBERG 0 WINS 0 TITLES
WINS UNDER PRESSURE-CHAMPIONSHIP PRESSURE= 0
1 DECADE OF RIVALS-NO RIVALS FOR TITLES YET, JUST THE NAME OF SCHUMACHER IN HIS TEAM TO MAKE A NAME OF WHILE CHASHING CONTRUCTORS POINTS WHILE SCHUMI LEARNS, NOT MUCH TO WRITE HOME ABOUT JUST YET,


RETIRED AND RETURNED IN 3RD DECADE WITHIN THE SPORT WITH 3RD TEAM WITH AMBITION TO RELEARN AND GO FOR 8TH TITLE = IS THIS ROSBERG? NO, IS IT SCHUMI YES



ROSBERG DOING GOOD JOB-YES VERY GOOD

CONCLUSION, WAIT OVER 2-3 YEARS TO SEE PROPER COMPARISONS
LONG TERM THINKING, SHORT TERM THINKING IS EASY AND CONVIENT BUT NOT CONCLUSIVE ENOUGH.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXxx
thats exactly what im tired of argue....
is that to much people just jumping out make conlusions over the rosberg saga.. for the records.... and everything goes trought this " records, lifetime and so on " rosberg is nobody infront of schumi..
tahnks god nico is doing a good " GOOD JOB " for mercs right now.. our team need it.
but posting the nonsence comparition its just ridiculous...
Rosberg its just a GOOD Racer. Fast racer... could wins one or two races or even one or two titles.. but put him in the schumi level!!! Come on... do you homeworks buddy.
none of the current drivers would never ever achieve the records schumi have...
no matter what the reason is

facts


#3717 Lifew12

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 13:38

Rosberg its just a GOOD Racer. Fast racer... could wins one or two races or even one or two titles.. but put him in the schumi level!!!


But at the moment he certainly looks 'in the schumi level' as he's driving the same car better.


#3718 dav115

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 14:11

But at the moment he certainly looks 'in the schumi level' as he's driving the same car better.

But you're assuming Schumacher has been driving at his old level this season, which is simply impossible with his unfamiliarity of these technical regulations.

#3719 aditya-now

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 14:41

ROSBERG 0 WINS 0 TITLES

SCHUMACHER 91 WINS 7 TITLES- WET WINS, STRATEGY DRIVES-CHAMPIONSHIP CONTENTION SEASONS AND FIGHTS 94-95-97-98-2000-2001-2002-2003-2004-2006
3 DECADES OF RIVALS



ROSBERG 0 WINS 0 TITLES
WINS UNDER PRESSURE-CHAMPIONSHIP PRESSURE= 0
1 DECADE OF RIVALS-NO RIVALS FOR TITLES YET, JUST THE NAME OF SCHUMACHER IN HIS TEAM TO MAKE A NAME OF WHILE CHASHING CONTRUCTORS POINTS WHILE SCHUMI LEARNS, NOT MUCH TO WRITE HOME ABOUT JUST YET,


RETIRED AND RETURNED IN 3RD DECADE WITHIN THE SPORT WITH 3RD TEAM WITH AMBITION TO RELEARN AND GO FOR 8TH TITLE = IS THIS ROSBERG? NO, IS IT SCHUMI YES



ROSBERG DOING GOOD JOB-YES VERY GOOD

CONCLUSION, WAIT OVER 2-3 YEARS TO SEE PROPER COMPARISONS
LONG TERM THINKING, SHORT TERM THINKING IS EASY AND CONVIENT BUT NOT CONCLUSIVE ENOUGH.


Wet wins?

Wet dreams...

Edited by aditya-now, 23 July 2010 - 14:43.


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#3720 ivand911

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 15:44

Schumacher targeting third row grid slot
23 July 2010

Back at home in Germany racing a Mercedes-Benz Formula 1 car for the first time, Michael Schumacher experienced a varied day on Friday. Slowed by rear wing problems in the morning, the 7-time World Champion finished sixth in the afternoon and now hopes to achieve at least the same by the time qualifying arrives.
With the rear wing issue having slowed the German’s progress in the morning, car damage kept him in the garage for the final minutes of the second session although Michael is upbeat, confident that Mercedes are moving forward.
“Today's sessions were a bit mixed due to the weather conditions but we were able to get the car working by the end, so it was a reasonable day,” he said. “One of my excursions caused some damage to the floor which led to a second excursion afterwards and we decided to stop slightly early this afternoon.

“We are looking reasonable over one lap and on longer runs, confirming what we already hinted at during the last weekend in Silverstone.

“If everything goes as it should tomorrow, we should reach fifth or sixth position, which is a step forward, and maybe even more in the race. But for sure, we will do everything possible to achieve a good result for our fans at our home race.”

#3721 Birelman

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 17:00

Why do his fans have such a hard time understanding that Schumacher isn't 25 anymore?

All I keep hearing is that he's taking so long to get to kow the cars, and regulations, well, this is a man who stormed into F1 as if he had driven F1 his entire life back in 1991. How much of a break wold you be giving a rookie driver to show his potential in an F1? Usually, judgement is made within 2 or 3 races.

I just don't get you guys, the man is getting old, accept that, and enjoy his racing. He might still have enough in the bag to surprise everyone with a win at some point, but he won't ever get to the point where he used to be as some seem to think would happen.

#3722 Dragonfly

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 17:39

Why do his fans have such a hard time understanding that Schumacher isn't 25 anymore?

All I keep hearing is that he's taking so long to get to kow the cars, and regulations, well, this is a man who stormed into F1 as if he had driven F1 his entire life back in 1991. How much of a break wold you be giving a rookie driver to show his potential in an F1? Usually, judgement is made within 2 or 3 races.

I just don't get you guys, the man is getting old, accept that, and enjoy his racing. He might still have enough in the bag to surprise everyone with a win at some point, but he won't ever get to the point where he used to be as some seem to think would happen.

You're wrong. It's the anti-fans who don't get it or conveniently forgetting. :)
At the end of the day there may be some truth in what you say - fanatics - pro and anti - do not differ much. :p

#3723 Birelman

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 17:44

You're wrong. It's the anti-fans who don't get it or conveniently forgetting. :)
At the end of the day there may be some truth in what you say - fanatics - pro and anti - do not differ much. :p

Haha! Well, his fans do feed the Antis a lot though, I mean, it's irresistible to an Anti to reply to something like this "You just wait until Schumacher sorts out this year, and he will dominate in 2011 lake he did in 2004" LOL I mean, that's like feeding the Anti in a silver platter!!!!

#3724 Sakae

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 17:48

When Michael is targetting fith or sixth place in quali, I wonder whom he thinks ke can replace? I think he is hoping to move back JB and also Massa.

2 RBR
2 Ferraris
2 McLarens
2 MGP

Others? Unlikely in dry session, and very messy if some will run on dry road, and others shall swim in paddles of water.

#3725 Diablobb81

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 17:51

When Michael is targetting fith or sixth place in quali, I wonder whom he thinks ke can replace? I think he is hoping to move back JB and also Massa.

2 RBR
2 Ferraris
2 McLarens
2 MGP

Others? Unlikely in dry session, and very messy if some will run on dry road, and others shall swim in paddles of water.


Well logically it would be those two and maybe speculate on one of the others having a bad quali.

But i'm not convinced Merc will have good pace in quali or race. It' still to cold. But maybe the new updates will work.

#3726 Dragonfly

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 20:51

Haha! Well, his fans do feed the Antis a lot though, I mean, it's irresistible to an Anti to reply to something like this "You just wait until Schumacher sorts out this year, and he will dominate in 2011 lake he did in 2004" LOL I mean, that's like feeding the Anti in a silver platter!!!!

I think all his fans are expecting to see more from him. But some of us prefer not to make hasty claims - pro and con - and rather just watch how thing unfold, hoping for success.
Even if his comeback fails, it won't be something that a reasonable person would not assume as one of the possibilities.

#3727 Buttoneer

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 21:01

Posts deleted - please don't discuss each other.

Also - there is a Schumacher/Rosberg thread already.

#3728 bobban86

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 21:04

6th today is a pretty strong result considering floor damage in FP1 and running not that many laps in FP2 I think... looking forward to tomorrow!

#3729 Birelman

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 00:38

I think all his fans are expecting to see more from him. But some of us prefer not to make hasty claims - pro and con - and rather just watch how thing unfold, hoping for success.
Even if his comeback fails, it won't be something that a reasonable person would not assume as one of the possibilities.

Yea, there has to be some sort of "relative" success. Personally, I think he's doing fine. Too bad it's not enough for his fans, which is a shame.

#3730 black magic

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 01:12

the biggest indicator that he is not the ms of old has been his speed when it is wet. looks very tentative to me and adds weight to niki lauda's description of the older driver/ driver coming back as someone who has to think about their driving rahter than pure instinct.

michael usedd to excell at the wet when the conditions were changeing rather than either full wet per se and for instance seemed to clearly have it over mika as it began to rain but once it was fully wet the margin was lost.

look at today when wet he was pretty average

#3731 Birelman

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 01:21

the biggest indicator that he is not the ms of old has been his speed when it is wet. looks very tentative to me and adds weight to niki lauda's description of the older driver/ driver coming back as someone who has to think about their driving rahter than pure instinct.

michael usedd to excell at the wet when the conditions were changeing rather than either full wet per se and for instance seemed to clearly have it over mika as it began to rain but once it was fully wet the margin was lost.

look at today when wet he was pretty average


That in particular is very true, and also very important. Most drivers can find a pretty good groove in the full wet anyway, it's the intermediate/changing conditions that are the real trick. A lot of driving in the wet is feel. For driving in the full wet, it's pretty simple, but intermediate, you really don't know what's up ahead of you and instinct takes over. Some drivers have a feel for that, others don't. Maybe Michael lost that instinctive feel.

#3732 Sakae

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 02:08

the biggest indicator that he is not the ms of old has been his speed when it is wet. looks very tentative to me and adds weight to niki lauda's description of the older driver/ driver coming back as someone who has to think about their driving rahter than pure instinct.

michael usedd to excell at the wet when the conditions were changeing rather than either full wet per se and for instance seemed to clearly have it over mika as it began to rain but once it was fully wet the margin was lost.

look at today when wet he was pretty average



Could be, but weak spot in your hypothesis is full dependence on believe, that he si totally comfy with his car, and it's just his lost youth and nothing else, that is holding him back.

#3733 slaveceru

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 04:47

That in particular is very true, and also very important. Most drivers can find a pretty good groove in the full wet anyway, it's the intermediate/changing conditions that are the real trick. A lot of driving in the wet is feel. For driving in the full wet, it's pretty simple, but intermediate, you really don't know what's up ahead of you and instinct takes over. Some drivers have a feel for that, others don't. Maybe Michael lost that instinctive feel.

No one can lose an instinct feel how to drive not with age it is genetically imprinted in to you so you cannot forget it. You are born with it and you die with it, but yes if you have to think how to drive than you cannot use your instinct to full potential.

Edited by slaveceru, 24 July 2010 - 04:49.


#3734 Big Block 8

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 06:29

michael usedd to excell at the wet when the conditions were changeing rather than either full wet per se and for instance seemed to clearly have it over mika as it began to rain but once it was fully wet the margin was lost.


It was explained that Schumacher's driving style and setups preferred a little bit loose back end he then controlled with throttle, whereas Mika used setups that were harder and much more unforgiving. Mika's preferred setup was quicker in the dry, but also very difficult to control when conditions were changing.

Back in the day Schumacher had a car tailored to excel with his preferred setup, but todays car is different and he probably has to drive it differently today than he used to do before - and as a consequence the advantage he had in the changing conditions is lost, at least at the moment.

#3735 ivand911

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 06:35

I think it was explained that Michael was having problem with the rear wing of the car this morning. His runs was to evaluate the wing.
http://twitpic.com/27tak3

#3736 Paul Prost

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 06:42

I think Mercedes will replace Schumacher with Sutil in 2011.

#3737 ivand911

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 07:10

You think? Over Nick who is waiting his chance whole year?

#3738 Johnrambo

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 08:17

Back in the day Schumacher had a car tailored to excel with his preferred setup,


Let's not forget he was also able to choose the T-car which was always reserved for MS and if the conditions seemed tricky was set-up already for wet into which he could just hop before the race.

#3739 ivand911

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 08:30

I don't think Ferrari have any regrets in the way they treated Michael. Results speak for themselves. He just delivered.

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#3740 arknor

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 10:46

Let's not forget he was also able to choose the T-car which was always reserved for MS and if the conditions seemed tricky was set-up already for wet into which he could just hop before the race.

did you ever watch f1 back in those days? i remember often brundle and murray saying the car was setup for irvine or barrichello at some tracks....

#3741 Jazza

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 11:08

did you ever watch f1 back in those days? i remember often brundle and murray saying the car was setup for irvine or barrichello at some tracks....

:confused: It was shown many times MS jumping into the T car just before the race because it was set up for different conditions to the race car. Schumacher having first option to the T car at Ferrari was not even in dispute. The last half of 99 when it went to Irvine was probably the only exception to this.


#3742 Les

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 11:33

I can't find that old thread about his 'dress sense' but on that feature with Lee MacKenzie on a horse, what the hell was he wearing?

#3743 george1981

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 11:37

:confused: It was shown many times MS jumping into the T car just before the race because it was set up for different conditions to the race car. Schumacher having first option to the T car at Ferrari was not even in dispute. The last half of 99 when it went to Irvine was probably the only exception to this.



I do remember that Ferrari often used to have two T-cars back in the day when T-cars were allowed.
There was some talk at the 1998 Belgium GP after that huge crash whether Eddie Irvine would be allowed to use the T-car incase there was another pile up and MS didn't have a car for the 3rd restart.

#3744 Birelman

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 13:37

did you ever watch f1 back in those days? i remember often brundle and murray saying the car was setup for irvine or barrichello at some tracks....

No, the T car was for Michael.

#3745 Birelman

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 13:39

You think? Over Nick who is waiting his chance whole year?

I'd rather replace a has-been with a never-will-be, over a never-was. LOL

#3746 Birelman

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 13:42

No one can lose an instinct feel how to drive not with age it is genetically imprinted in to you so you cannot forget it. You are born with it and you die with it, but yes if you have to think how to drive than you cannot use your instinct to full potential.

Yea, well, whatever the technical explanation is, yea :)

#3747 Fortymark

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 13:45

Why do his fans have such a hard time understanding that Schumacher isn't 25 anymore?


Is it really about age?
Look at Barrichello, he´s not that much younger than MS and has been almost as long as MS
in F1. In fact he´s got more races and he´s still quicker than his new talented teammate.

#3748 Speed Racer 99

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 13:46

From Superhero to mere mortal. It's sad to watch. MS, hang it up after this season please.

#3749 ivand911

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 13:51

Is it really about age?
Look at Barrichello, he´s not that much younger than MS and has been almost as long as MS
in F1. In fact he´s got more races and he´s still quicker than his new talented teammate.

And he also miss 3 years like Michael? Yes, almost the same situation.

Edited by ivand911, 24 July 2010 - 13:52.


#3750 Birelman

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 13:55

Is it really about age?
Look at Barrichello, he´s not that much younger than MS and has been almost as long as MS
in F1. In fact he´s got more races and he´s still quicker than his new talented teammate.

True, true. But also it's not the same to have been away for 3 years and come back to re-learn as a 41 year old. I don't mean to defend Michael as I am not a fan lol I'm very much enjoying seeing him loose lol. Actually, seeing a great champion like him go through this is really very sad, so, lets just say I'm glad he's not storming the field so that I don't have to put up with his fans worshipping lol

Edited by Birelman, 24 July 2010 - 13:56.