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#3801 black magic

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 02:15

starting on softs when you had the option to go hard just can't understand

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#3802 arknor

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 04:06

starting on softs when you had the option to go hard just can't understand

they clearly dont want schumacher on softs with light fuel at the end of the race attacking everyone whos on worn out hard tyres like we often seen kobayashi and petrov doing

#3803 exmayol

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 04:15

they clearly dont want schumacher on softs with light fuel at the end of the race attacking everyone whos on worn out hard tyres like we often seen kobayashi and petrov doing


I'm getting the same impression. Seriously if Pedro was able to pull that off [till his accident of course] I dont see how Michael would not be able too. Either MGP people know what we dont or they are not thinking straight.

#3804 cheapracer

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 05:20

Aha, cheapracer confessing there is bullshit on Schumacher´s shoulders?!
A large chunk was taken off, but indeed some remains?

Bookmarked.


Theres a lot of bullshit piled on MS's shoulders, just ask, err, you actually - or any Senna fan, Alonso fan, or any Brit, South American etc.

Bookmarked? I thought your bucket of bullshit was already overflowing without the need to add to it  ;)


#3805 Cr0aker

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 06:19

I’m sorry, but that Merc is a total freaking dog of a car. Rosberg is getting more out of it for sure, but that does not change the fact that it is a piece of junk. Hopefully the influx of Mercedes money will make a difference for next year.

#3806 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 08:32

Qualies post the biggest issue for Schumi and the way it's been going in the last races, it's not promising at all.

#3807 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 08:34

but he's quite often leading rosberg after the first lap so qualy isn't such a big issue.

#3808 Urawa

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 08:40

Qualies post the biggest issue for Schumi and the way it's been going in the last races, it's not promising at all.


Surely it is, he already admitted it is his biggest weakness. Ross Brawn explained it: His starts/first stint are strong because the big fuel load helps him to get the tyres in the right window, once too much fuel is burned the balance of the car switches and he´s struggling at midrace to the end.

#3809 Cr0aker

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 10:26

Surely it is, he already admitted it is his biggest weakness. Ross Brawn explained it: His starts/first stint are strong because the big fuel load helps him to get the tyres in the right window, once too much fuel is burned the balance of the car switches and he´s struggling at midrace to the end.


Seems reasonable.

#3810 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 11:03

but he's quite often leading rosberg after the first lap so qualy isn't such a big issue.


I don't know, is Rosberg the objective here? If Mercedes were 1-2, and Schumacher was second, then maybe; but as things stand, qualifying well is the only way of getting close to a podium, given the car's current ability.

This is what has helped Rosberg so much - along with the better and mainly safer strategies. If you look at the number of positions gained by each driver, then you'll see Rosberg generally gained 1 position during the race (4 times) - only in Great Britain and Europe did he gain two positions and in Canada four. As such, adding up the gains/losses from his grid position, you'd get a rating of five.

Schumacher also has a rating of five, despite having the by far better starts. But given that his starting position is so far back, Mercedes seem to pick up the weirder, riskier strategies, and up to now it hasn't paid off at all.

As Urawa pointed out, the problems arising with the emptier tank are the main issue, and while they can be somewhat controlled during the race, their effect on qualies is far too great. The last four races have been such chores, starting from worse and worse positions, it's truly frustrating and I really don't know what it will take for things to change.

#3811 George Costanza

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 15:34

Hungary had some great moments for Michael Schumacher. 1998, 2001 and the stunning 2005 lap, that put him at pole position with nearly 0.9 seconds ahead of Montoya in a year when Ferrari and Bridgestone weren't there.... He was the only driver in the teens, 1:19.882.

That lap was one of his best.

1998 needs no words. We all know what happened.

And it had its poor moments such as the 2003 Grand Prix, where Ferrari simply wasn't there. MGP will probably be off the pace yet again, but Hungary is a bit like Monaco with the downforce levels and its a drivers track. And 2006 he made a bit of a mess as well in the wet.

We'll see.

Edited by George Costanza, 27 July 2010 - 15:37.


#3812 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 15:41

As Urawa pointed out, the problems arising with the emptier tank are the main issue, and while they can be somewhat controlled during the race, their effect on qualies is far too great. The last four races have been such chores, starting from worse and worse positions, it's truly frustrating and I really don't know what it will take for things to change.

it's clear the problem without fuel is there, but it's not the main issue..
the car is going backwards performance wise, that's why his positions are lower and lower.
he may have made mistakes in q3, but look where nico put the car (9) and michael (11) in the last race

the difference in q2 was what? less a 0.1 sec? that's not exactly anything, you can't say he's been terrible in q2 in germany compared to rosberg. he was there, just that the performance of the car meant the line before q2/q3 was also "there"

#3813 cheapracer

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 15:46

As Urawa pointed out, the problems arising with the emptier tank are the main issue, and while they can be somewhat controlled during the race, their effect on qualies is far too great. The last four races have been such chores, starting from worse and worse positions, it's truly frustrating and I really don't know what it will take for things to change.


Not as bad as you may think, some teams work at one area they know is bad and step by step data is required through testing (and we all know that story) and that means backwards, backwards and backwards sometimes too. This may be a process of elimination and hope it is.

McLaren went through the same last year and look at the turn around when they found "it" whatever their it was - mind you Renault started the same and didn't find "it"!

This testing ban is really cheating the fans and the teams, Monday testing I say. The New Teams are proving that computer and wind tunnel time, which is expensive, just doesn't work.


#3814 SchumiBoy

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 15:48

the difference in q2 was what? less a 0.1 sec? that's not exactly anything, you can't say he's been terrible in q2 in germany compared to rosberg. he was there, just that the performance of the car meant the line before q2/q3 was also "there"


The gap in Q2 was 0.008s

#3815 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 15:50

it's obviously "nothing" but people will not see that as an improvement

#3816 cheapracer

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 15:52

the difference in q2 was what? less a 0.1 sec? that's not exactly anything, you can't say he's been terrible in q2 in germany compared to rosberg.


Not terrible but Rosberg still has an edge in speed and maybe small but it's been consistant.

MS may be driving well and simply waiting till the car finds his sweet spot rather than the other way around - only him and Brawn could answer that one. Of course if thats true then there is only so long before the team has to say you find the cars sweet spot or we just have to admit it's not going to happen - Keke Rosberg at Mclaren being an immediate to mind example of that.

#3817 merschu

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 16:02

Schumi showing around his ranch. :)

http://www.youtube.c...eos=kO0z09V4RBs

Edited by merschu, 27 July 2010 - 16:03.


#3818 Polle

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 16:34

So from this ranch the infamous cowboy hat is born lol, though I only just realized how beautiful his wife is. Those two look like they barely aged.

#3819 Simon Says

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 17:04

Awesome, how large a chunk of the bullshit Austria 2002 did Alonso just take off Schumacher's shoulders!!

:lol: :lol:

:lol:

But he's supporting Alonso and Ferrari with their decision. Trouble for Nico next year once MBP has a top car and they are fighting for the WDC? :p

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#3820 Simon Says

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 17:05

Awesome, how large a chunk of the bullshit Austria 2002 did Alonso just take off Schumacher's shoulders!!

:lol: :lol:

:lol:

But he's supporting Alonso and Ferrari with their decision. Trouble for Nico next year once MBP has a top car and they are fighting for the WDC? :p

#3821 Simon Says

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 17:06

Qualies post the biggest issue for Schumi and the way it's been going in the last races, it's not promising at all.


He wasn't that far of Rosberg imo last race in qualifying. Not of the more dramatic stuff we have seen of him this season, so he's getting better :p

#3822 cheapracer

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 17:21

:lol:

But he's supporting Alonso and Ferrari with their decision. Trouble for Nico next year once MBP has a top car and they are fighting for the WDC? :p


I don't know if he is or isn't and I can tell you I am generally in favour of a team deciding who goes where but none of us can take away the simple fact that it's against the rules as they currently stand.

Brawn knows it's the best way and obviously favours one driver preference, if the status quo is kept this year I think Rosberg has the right to nominate himself if early 2011 goes his way as well.

But we don't know what MS's contract says, he may have opted for a development year ahead of a preferred driver position for next year (I honestly don't think Rosberg was expected to perform as well as he has) - that would be smart thinking but there will have to be some result towards the end of the year or it would be on shakey ground.


#3823 scarletf12002

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 18:56

:lol:

But he's supporting Alonso and Ferrari with their decision. Trouble for Nico next year once MBP has a top car and they are fighting for the WDC? :p



It would sheer hypocrisy for him not to but then again back then wasn't againt the rules? However at least you kind of have to admire Ferrari for flaunting the rules so brazenly rather than using the old "fuel saving mode" chestnut! Mclaren and their holier than tho attitude are really starting to annoy me! Get it right people, their drivers BFF's and there are never use any team orders, maybe cos Jenson is hardly ever close enough to Lewis for them to need to them?!

#3824 Villes Gilleneuve

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 20:02

I’m sorry, but that Merc is a total freaking dog of a car. Rosberg is getting more out of it for sure, but that does not change the fact that it is a piece of junk. Hopefully the influx of Mercedes money will make a difference for next year.


It's only that way because they made the decision to let Schumacher dictate the development to his driving style.


At this point, Mercedes is just a cascade of bad management decisions.

#3825 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 20:13

It's only that way because they made the decision to let Schumacher dictate the development to his driving style.

which is something you just made up and based on no proof.


#3826 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 07:19

He wasn't that far of Rosberg imo last race in qualifying. Not of the more dramatic stuff we have seen of him this season, so he's getting better :p


Clearly, you can't judge based on one quali. :p

Also, while the Mercedes cars may be poor, Rosberg did place 5th on the grid in Silverstone - and Schumi only tenth.

While I don't think Schumi is behind Rosberg on race pace, I find it hard to argue that he isn't so in qualifying - so there's a problem in that that's not car-related, as it is driver related. That's why I am inclined to believe that handling the car without fuel is still something Schumacher doesn't seem very comfortable with. I don't know, what else could be the cause?

#3827 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 10:10

Clearly, you can't judge based on one quali. :p

Also, while the Mercedes cars may be poor, Rosberg did place 5th on the grid in Silverstone - and Schumi only tenth.

While I don't think Schumi is behind Rosberg on race pace, I find it hard to argue that he isn't so in qualifying - so there's a problem in that that's not car-related, as it is driver related. That's why I am inclined to believe that handling the car without fuel is still something Schumacher doesn't seem very comfortable with. I don't know, what else could be the cause?


They say you are only as good as your last race. So based on his last race, there was very little to seperate them in terms of race pace, track position, fastest laps and qualifying.



#3828 as65p

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 10:41

They say you are only as good as your last race.


They say that as a reminder of how stupid it is.

#3829 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 11:07

They say that as a reminder of how stupid it is.


Why is it stupid? Because it doesn't fit in with your model of the world?

The theory usually applies is most sports until proven otherwise.

#3830 Dragonfly

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 11:15

Why is it stupid? Because it doesn't fit in with your model of the world?

The theory usually applies is most sports until proven otherwise.

No, because MS is involved :p

#3831 merschu

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 13:51

Schumacher's car designed for me - Button


The reigning world champion said Brawn GP, now Mercedes GP, developed the Brackley based team's 2010 car according to his preference for understeer.

"Michael likes a very pointy car," the 30-year-old Briton is quoted by Germany's Sport Bild."But the Mercedes understeers pretty strongly," said Button. "I was always happy with it that way.

"He will have more influence on the development of the next car. This year (the 2010 car) was quite late for him -- the fundamental characteristics were in place long before his signature," he said.



Edited by merschu, 28 July 2010 - 13:53.


#3832 cheapracer

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 14:55

The reigning world champion said Brawn GP, now Mercedes GP, developed the Brackley based team's 2010 car according to his preference for understeer.

"Michael likes a very pointy car," the 30-year-old Briton is quoted by Germany's Sport Bild."But the Mercedes understeers pretty strongly," said Button. "I was always happy with it that way.

"He will have more influence on the development of the next car. This year (the 2010 car) was quite late for him -- the fundamental characteristics were in place long before his signature," he said.


Just what the hell were you thinking posting sound factual explanations in a Schumacher thread :mad:


#3833 F1Champion

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 17:58

I hope that if Michael is ahead, they give him a sensible and not an off the wall strategy. Pitting early before there is any field spread and dumping him back into traffic has been a signature of his strategies. The pit wall need to do better.

#3834 as65p

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 18:04

No, because MS is involved :p


So you two really believe "only as good as your last <whatever>" is a sound and reasonable point of view?

Okay, then why does this guy running 9th in the championship with not even half the points of his teammate deserve it's own thread? :drunk:

#3835 as65p

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 18:14

Schumacher's car designed for me - Button


Sport Bild, eh?

In this clip Button states the opposite, namely that he hates understeery cars because his style actually makes the understeer worse.

So something doesn't add up. Something to do with the "Bild" part in the name of the source, I reckon.

#3836 aditya-now

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 18:18

Definitely interesting you guys listen to the new Roebuck podcast: http://www.motorspor...-audio-podcast/


Also, there was a nice post on Motorsport.com that sums up Michael's situation nicely:

"Well…It didn’t really take rocket scientry for me to say that the German would “get dismantled by the current Aces on the grid” back in Winter.

Schumacher was a VERY GOOD (not “GREAT”) driver in a VERY WEAK driver era (mid 1994 – 2002) at a time when Ferrari enjoyed an unusually significant edge on a number of fronts, incuding a veto on Technical developments with the FIA (as confirmed by Max Mosely).

Further, Schumacher himself had a veto on any other potentially fast driver joining Ferrari.

Well…Shuey/Shumi now finds himself in a VERY STRONG diver era without any of those unusual advantages (on unlimited testing, fast teammate, no clear Number 1 status, no tailor-made Bridgestones for Ferrari/himself, no Rory Byrne to design a car specifically to cater to his unusual driving style)…

…and what you see is what you get…

…i.e. a VERY GOOD driver having to compete on equal footing with other VERY GOOD drivers – as well as (possibly) one GREAT driver (Hamilton)….

It isn’t Rocket Science." - R Tanveer

#3837 aditya-now

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 18:20

Just what the hell were you thinking posting sound factual explanations in a Schumacher thread :mad:


Calm down, it's been made up by BILD anyway, nothing factual. :lol:

But hard for you to check while sitting in China!
That car would have never been to Jenson's liking as well... ;)


#3838 F1Champion

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 18:35

I think Hakkinen, was a great driver, and Michael has gone up against Montoya, Raikkonen and Alonso and won, so its not like he's forgotten. Plus he raced against Mansell, Prost and Senna and didn't look shabby then. That article is poorly researched. Plus when he raced against "very weak" drivers he also raced against some of the most dominant cars in history. The 96,97 Williams, the 98, 99 McLaren were very quick cars and if their drivers were crap then the cars must of been awesome. Other than the Ferraris of 02,04 when has there been a car that has lapped everyone but themselves (McLaren Aus 98?).

#3839 merschu

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 18:38

Here is the real article with Jenson Button in which they interview him.

It's in German.
http://sportbild.bil...schumacher.html

And this is the translated one to English .
http://translate.goo...y...=auto&tl=en

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#3840 as65p

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 19:03

Here is the real article with Jenson Button in which they interview him.

It's in German.
http://sportbild.bil...schumacher.html


A typical Bild article. Apparently Button specifically praises the two german drivers over the moon, promising great things for MS in 2011, in between stating the opposite of what he says in a current video clip. Well...

He probably really said something remotely connected, and the Bild reporters then made it into an "interesting" article for their supposed audience. Like when XY says "it might rain this week", the Bild headline would be "Monsoon will flood germany 3 metres deep, says XY".

#3841 ivand911

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 19:05

Who is this R Tanveer guy? Hmm, to trust his opinion or Mr.Button opinion(which I think is very clear from interview)? This is tough one. Just kidding. The guy who thinks Lewis is great driver where all else are only very good drivers. Good sample, maybe he is 15year old and know only Lewis as F1 driver. Aditya could do better. Giving some posters opinion like they say something important? Who care what some fan think, if we start to quote every fan opinion here, where we finish? Lets just post our opinions and opinions from somebody who knows what he talk?

Edited by ivand911, 28 July 2010 - 19:27.


#3842 aditya-now

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 19:18

Who is this R Tanveer guy? Hmm, to trust his opinion or Mr.Button opinion(which I think is very clear from interview)? This is tough one. Just kidding. The guy who thinks Lewis is great driver where all else are only very good driver. Good sample, maybe he is 15year old and know only Lewis as F1 driver. Aditya could do better. Giving some posters opinion like they say something important? Who care what some fan think, if we start here to quote every fan opinion, here where we finish? Lets just post our opinions and opinions from somebody who knows what he talk?

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
:wave:

You caught me on the spot, Ivan! I find it too tiring to continue stating the obvious about MS. Mr.Tanveer did well, so what should I add?

If what Sport BILD claim that Button has said about Schumi is true, then 2011 will be the crucial year for Michael. Can't wait.
Meanwhile, the experts are not really discussing the Schumacher issue anymore, what we see is what we get. A strange form of compassion/melancholy towards Michael has set it.
The German GP was regarded as crucial.

Edited by aditya-now, 28 July 2010 - 19:19.


#3843 ivand911

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 19:30

Just don't do such tiring things and you will feel better. I think good place for Mr.Tanveer post is Lewis thread, they all will go ballistic. With happiness. We have other things to do here, one of them is dreaming about flexible wings. I want one for our(MGP) car.

Edited by ivand911, 28 July 2010 - 19:38.


#3844 aditya-now

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 19:41

Just don't do such tiring things and you will feel better. I think good place for Mr.Tanveer post is Lewis thread, they all will go ballistic. With happiness. We have other things to do here, one of them is dreaming about flexible wings. I want one for our(MGP) car.


Wait for 2011, then Michael will have the car he wants. Then he will have to deliver.

Meanwhile, as Michael himself said, 2010 is still going to be a long season for him...


#3845 Sof1

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 13:19

MSC looks like he is doing OK this 2nd practice.

#3846 Wade

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 13:25

How is Schumi doin? What's his place?

Would appreciate it!

#3847 Diablobb81

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 13:26

10th, looks like same pace as Rosberg, car is shit.

#3848 GoRacing

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 14:19

Seemed like Rosberg can go much faster on super softs, he did not get a clean lap, he was 6/10s up on MS on the hards, MS improved by almost a second on the super softs, you would expect Nico to do the same, not looking good for MS.

#3849 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 14:34

Seemed like Rosberg can go much faster on super softs, he did not get a clean lap, he was 6/10s up on MS on the hards, MS improved by almost a second on the super softs, you would expect Nico to do the same, not looking good for MS.


Mercedes are going backwards. It is damage limitation for them. They will be close again this weekend I predict.

#3850 Diablobb81

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 14:39

Seemed like Rosberg can go much faster on super softs, he did not get a clean lap, he was 6/10s up on MS on the hards, MS improved by almost a second on the super softs, you would expect Nico to do the same, not looking good for MS.


When i looked on the stints later in P2 they were posting equal times. Might be wrong tough.

Edited by Diablobb81, 30 July 2010 - 14:39.