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#3851 GoRacing

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 14:41

When i looked on the stints later in P2 they were posting equal times. Might be wrong tough.


Yes, race pace wise there is nothing between the two, in fact MS might have the edge, but qualifying is still an issue for MS, Nico looks comfortably quicker in most races.

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#3852 ivand911

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 14:46

Race pace depends from a lot of things? Who is close to the front can chose his speed. Lets first get to the Q3, after this we will see who is faster or slower. :)

Edited by ivand911, 30 July 2010 - 14:48.


#3853 GoRacing

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 15:04

Race pace depends from a lot of things? Who is close to the front can chose his speed. Lets first get to the Q3, after this we will see who is faster or slower. :)


You need to read this to understand what would be the difference between Nico and MS in qualifying.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/85677

I expect only Nico to go through to Q3, and the gap to MS is going to be something like 1/2 second in Q2. Nico seems much more confident in single lap pace than MS at the moment.

#3854 ivand911

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 15:15

We will see tomorrow if you are right or wrong. :) Just don't see how from this quotes you see the difference between two drivers for Qualy. If you ask me, tomorrow will rain and everything could be very different form today. And Nico is always more optimistic(he think they are in top 4 and in the end they can get to Q3) from both, where result is what Michael say usually. Car could be very different when they get to Qualy.

Edited by ivand911, 30 July 2010 - 15:16.


#3855 GoRacing

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 15:28

We will see tomorrow if you are right or wrong. :) Just don't see how from this quotes you see the difference between two drivers for Qualy. If you ask me, tomorrow will rain and everything could be very different form today. And Nico is always more optimistic(he think they are in top 4 and in the end they can get to Q3) from both, where result is what Michael say usually. Car could be very different when they get to Qualy.


I did not estimate the difference in qualy time from these quotes, I did looking at their relative pace on medium and super soft compounds. I do agree though that cars could be very different tomorrow and rain could play a role and also MS seems to improve more than Nico from practice times to qualy times, but still feeling a bit pessimistic. Dont get me wrong, I badly want MS to out-qualify and out-race Nico.

#3856 arknor

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 15:44

Seemed like Rosberg can go much faster on super softs, he did not get a clean lap, he was 6/10s up on MS on the hards, MS improved by almost a second on the super softs, you would expect Nico to do the same, not looking good for MS.

this isnt the schumacher vs rosberg thread stop trying to turn it into one.

if we go with the usual rosberg fan mentality.

whats on paper is all that matters and thats schumacher beat him in p2, nothing is to be discused , no excuses given which is how you lot are when rosberg beats schumacher because of a wheel not falling off or whatever

#3857 GoRacing

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 15:50

this isnt the schumacher vs rosberg thread stop trying to turn it into one.

if we go with the usual rosberg fan mentality.

whats on paper is all that matters and thats schumacher beat him in p2, nothing is to be discused , no excuses given which is how you lot are when rosberg beats schumacher because of a wheel not falling off or whatever


FYI - I'm a big MS fan, I badly want MS to get a good result here, but just expressing my thoughts looking at their relative times on the two compounds. Will carry out this discussion on the other thread.

#3858 ivand911

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 15:59

FYI - I'm a big MS fan, I badly want MS to get a good result here, but just expressing my thoughts looking at their relative times on the two compounds. Will carry out this discussion on the other thread.

Don't worry, we all want the same. But what happens happens. I see that you are very disappointed. We have bigger problem than Michael vs Nico. Other teams are developing fast. How Reno have new wings every race? And they still don't have F-duct. We also don't have real F-duct. We need to score points every race. Or just to score more than others. I am sure this is what Michael want.

Edited by ivand911, 30 July 2010 - 16:01.


#3859 cheapracer

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 07:41

I've said it before and I'll say it again - when MS does well this thread goes quiet :lol:

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#3860 as65p

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 08:32

I've said it before and I'll say it again - when MS does well this thread goes quiet :lol:


An understanding of what "free practice" means would help.

Or maybe you also believe Petrov is getting the measure of Kubica since yesterday? :drunk:

#3861 Tarzaan

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 12:36

It looks this is not his race :S

#3862 Sof1

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 12:39

Crap results for MSC so far!

#3863 RedBaron

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 12:45

Very poor from Schumacher... Rosberg managed 5th.

#3864 Sof1

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 12:46

I don't believe how there is so much difference! Its like Schu gave up.

Edited by Sof1, 31 July 2010 - 12:46.


#3865 Diablobb81

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 12:47

I don;t understand why they even bothered to send him out just for one fast lap. That would have never worked. Why did they decide to go out so late?

#3866 Massa_f1

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 12:47

I think its safe to say MS does not like this car and no am not making excuses am just saying its a large part of the problem.

#3867 Johnrambo

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 12:47

This is getting ridiculous. Mercedes will become the joke of the paddock unless they kick Schumacher out.

Edited by Johnrambo, 31 July 2010 - 12:48.


#3868 marchi-91

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 12:47

It makes you wonder whether Brawn are now just using the rest of the weekends as test session at this rate.

#3869 ivand911

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 12:48

Why they wait for the last moment, he can try 2-3 fast laps? When you have problem you drive more. They were saving tires for the race?

#3870 marchi-91

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 12:51

Michael said the next few races would be painful. Whats going on???

#3871 MCh000

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 12:57

Next race Michael should receive a new chassi. Let's wait and see if it makes a difference. As for me, I already said that Michael should be up to 0.3 sec slower if it the problem was only in the driver.

#3872 GoRacing

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 13:01

Next race Michael should receive a new chassi. Let's wait and see if it makes a difference. As for me, I already said that Michael should be up to 0.3 sec slower if it the problem was only in the driver.


I predicted 1/2 sec gap in Q2, but its way more than that ):

#3873 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 13:13

This is just too depressing.

#3874 Urawa

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 13:17

It´s a mystery. Sometimes he´s up there with Rosberg on one-lap pace or even a bit quicker and suddenly 4-8 tenths off the pace.
His best time yesterday was a 21.7 and he could only improve by a tenth till today while others manage a 1+ sec improvement.

#3875 ivand911

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 13:19

sarahholtf1: " Button says he could not find the balance with his car and was impressed that his McLaren team-mate Hamilton could find so much pace! "
Sounds familiar? For me this difference is from different set up of the car. Nico did great job with his set up. It is not the first time when his race team is better. Michael and his team never found good set up.

Edited by ivand911, 31 July 2010 - 13:20.


#3876 mursuka80

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 13:21

This is getting ridiculous. Mercedes will become the joke of the paddock unless they kick Schumacher out.


Nico should demand a raise.How much more MS makes?

#3877 primer

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 13:22

ROFL this is bad. If you compare the best times of Rosberg and Schumacher in today's qualifying, MS is over a second behind his team mate. Ferrari are paying Kimi to not drive for them, come on Mercedes, you can do the same with Schum.



#3878 rad787

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 13:44

I have been smelling sabotage since the start. Shovlin.

#3879 Birelman

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 13:54

So, what you think guys, I think a new 4 year contract extention is in order for Schumacher, he's proven his worth :rotfl:

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#3880 DontPanic

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 13:59

An understanding of what "free practice" means would help.

Or maybe you also believe Petrov is getting the measure of Kubica since yesterday?
:drunk:


Yep.

#3881 Jimmy

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 14:27

I have been smelling sabotage since the start. Shovlin.


:down:

#3882 BRK

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 14:32

Well,last race before the break,8 more races and we're done with 2010. :up:

Today was pretty disappointing,as most of this season has been,for MS and fans like myself: joy on the other side of the fence,I'd imagine. :lol: That said,some of the comments on here are pretty sad-don't care for the trolls but also from some of the others whose opinions I respected...

When they changed the rules in 2009 I was hoping for a better spectacle as on paper they were meant to emphasize the role of the driver more,but judging by the way these two seasons have played out I think they've only made it worse,overall. Car performance is dependent on track characteristics than ever before,and areas that were of secondary importance to driver talent in the past (quite rightly so) such as tyre expertise/being a tyre engineer cum driver are now at the very top of an F1 driver skillset. In the current era,you mustn't push too hard,brake too late,or carry too much speed into a corner as that will take the sheen off your tyres-and you'll suddenly find yourself 4 tenths off the pace. The upside to the rule changes was that it handed more control to the driver-IMO this is has been completely negated by the effect of other,'pointless' variables,which is now amplified to a ridiculous extent. If the car is good on your tyres (at standard temperature,pressure and humidity conditions,of course!) at a certain track,on a certain weekend,and you are a careful driver,you will do well,provided you aren't aggressive,ballsy or interesting in any way. Doing your math before a session and listening to the engineer's driving tips is also extremely important: if the crown's at T1 and the tyre wall is at T2,you ought to take it easy through Eau Rouge etc.....Last season Button-the eventual world champion-was hopeless at some races and was beaten by RB,all because he couldn't get enough temperature into his tyres. Too cold-X wins; too warm,it's going to be Y's weekend.

MS is old school. I don't think he gives a damn about any of these things and maybe just wants to head out there and do his best with whatever's at his disposal,but then things have changed.....I'm sure he realizes just as much. As a person he is remarkably intelligent and insightful- this will stand him in good stead as he adapts,of that much I am certain.

Rosberg: good job thus far. To me he'll always be a bit meh. Used to defend him in 2006,'07 and '08 when people called him overrated-stand by the same now. Good driver,not overrated at all,but not in any way excellent.

Anyway,I've personally had about enough with this era. It's a bit of a poker game to me-if all variables are in place for a team you are guaranteed a formation grid (RBR,RBR,Ferrari,Ferrari) because talent plays very little part in the process. Excellent entertainment,however. A lot of people walked away when the turbos were banned,when the cars were neutered or when grooves were introduced because it shattered some notion of the sport they'd held in their minds: this one's done exactly that for me. Yeah,MS is struggling,I'm sure he'll fare much better in 2011,but what's the point when you could just as easily swap him for a Bridgestone engineer or a data analyst somewhere? :)





#3883 ivand911

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 14:50

Also the trainings before were for preparing for qualy and race. Now they use them for development/tests. And it is easy if one driver tests more than other driver, in qualy he to come not so good prepared. As team say Michael is doing more of the testing. Also don't know how much the sides of garage share data, we will never know maybe.

Edited by ivand911, 31 July 2010 - 15:03.


#3884 Johnrambo

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 15:08

because talent plays very little part in the process.


This is ludicrous. MS's best years were when the cars were full of gizmos. Now after they have been stripped he is nowhere.


#3885 Birelman

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 15:14

This is ludicrous. MS's best years were when the cars were full of gizmos. Now after they have been stripped he is nowhere.

Remember when Schumacher wins, the car has very little to do with it, and no matter what, if the car is good it's only because he developed it. Obviously the car sux now and it's only the team's fault and car matters too much :stoned:

#3886 chrisblades85

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 15:15

Roll on next season........

#3887 ivand911

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 15:16

Set-up gamble backfires for Schumacher
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/85748


#3888 Birelman

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 15:17

Set-up gamble backfires for Schumacher
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/85748

Yeah, that was smart of him in a track notorious for Qualifying importance. :rotfl:

#3889 chrisblades85

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 15:20

Yeah, that was smart of him in a track notorious for Qualifying importance. :rotfl:


Exactly.

I just wish he would stop being happy to be here. And start annoying everybody again. When he starts to do that, then I know he's kind of back.

Still 1st or last. He's still the best. In my very humble opinion of course. :p

#3890 man

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 17:29

Take away the preferential treatment, take away his number 1 status, take away his number 2 teammates, take away the ordinary competition he had in the mid 90s to early 2000's take away the super budget of Ferrari and the genius of Rory Byrne and friendship with Todt...what do you have? M Schumacher style of 2010.

Finally, even his fanatics can be enlightened.

#3891 Massa_f1

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 17:33

Take away the preferential treatment, take away his number 1 status, take away his number 2 teammates, take away the ordinary competition he had in the mid 90s to early 2000's take away the super budget of Ferrari and the genius of Rory Byrne and friendship with Todt...what do you have? M Schumacher style of 2010.

Finally, even his fanatics can be enlightened.


LMAO :rotfl: You could say that for any driver. Move on.

#3892 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 17:40

So, what you think guys, I think a new 4 year contract extention is in order for Schumacher, he's proven his worth :rotfl:

Again an incredubly dumb post from a smart person as you are. I can't understand the hate.
I know, you'll say it's not hate..

#3893 man

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 17:46

LMAO :rotfl: You could say that for any driver. Move on.



Perhaps... Though I think a certain Mr Rosberg would disagree...Over half a second quicker... Out qualified 10 times...in the same car. Still I've been told M Schumacher will show us all in 2011. :-)

#3894 rad787

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 17:53

Perhaps... Though I think a certain Mr Rosberg would disagree...Over half a second quicker... Out qualified 10 times...in the same car. Still I've been told M Schumacher will show us all in 2011. :-)


Geez you say that as if all other things between them were equal for this season...

#3895 Birelman

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 18:01

Again an incredubly dumb post from a smart person as you are. I can't understand the hate.
I know, you'll say it's not hate..

LOL c'mon, I couldn't resist!! :)

#3896 man

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 18:01

Geez you say that as if all other things between them were equal for this season...


Oh yes M Schumacher despite his 14 year plus experience needs time to adapt. It was pretty much universally agreed he would need a couple of races before he would be back to his best. A couple turned into a few more, a few more turned into half a season and half a season has turned into 2011. The fact is, he has hardly improved since day 1...

"wait till 2011 I tell thee, you'll see!"


#3897 iakhtar

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 18:02

LMAO :rotfl: You could say that for any driver. Move on.


It is better to just move on, let them debunk myths and waste their time, oh and calling people fanatics that gave me a good laugh, anyway, probably just seeking justification as to why MS made their lives so miserable in the past. Best just to let them have it :)

#3898 BRK

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 18:08

This is ludicrous.


No,it isn't. Some drivers/teams are doing well one weekend only to be completely lost the next with the new cars-that's got nothing to do with 'talent'. If they're at the mercy of the behaviour of the car+tyre+track characteristics,where does the talent come in? And if you're stuck with something that doesn't suit your style,you're done for the rest of the season: as simple as that. Plus there's the work the simulators are putting in,we don't even need the drivers or their 'talent' for that...

People ought to save the trolling until next season because there's always the chance that the driver you support might get caught out with the 2011 spec cars.

#3899 Jimmy

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 18:11

Take away the preferential treatment, take away his number 1 status, take away his number 2 teammates, take away the ordinary competition he had in the mid 90s to early 2000's take away the super budget of Ferrari and the genius of Rory Byrne and friendship with Todt...what do you have? M Schumacher style of 2010.

Finally, even his fanatics can be enlightened.


Spot on. I think this also ties in with why we haven't seen Schumacher go anywhere near an IndyCar, Touring or GT car since he retired from F1, despite clearly being willing to race. A couple of years ago Schumacher openly admitted he (and his brother) "didn't have the talent" for DTM.

http://www.touringca...ews.php?id=1772

It's a shame that, despite Schumacher's occasional humbleness and honesty regarding his abilities, his worshippers must look for (increasingly deluded) excuses.

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#3900 Birelman

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 18:14

No,it isn't. Some drivers/teams are doing well one weekend only to be completely lost the next with the new cars-that's got nothing to do with 'talent'. If they're at the mercy of the behaviour of the car+tyre+track characteristics,where does the talent come in? And if you're stuck with something that doesn't suit your style,you're done for the rest of the season: as simple as that. Plus there's the work the simulators are putting in,we don't even need the drivers or their 'talent' for that...

People ought to save the trolling until next season because there's always the chance that the driver you support might get caught out with the 2011 spec cars.

Well, Formula 1 has always been that way, the only thing is that, in the 90es and 2000s there was usually 1 car with a big advantage and more times than not, only 1 other car that was able to challenge it, hence, the guys in those cars always had a crack at it, whatever the variation to suit cars from track to track was, the variation was always overcome by their big performance advantage. Schumacher drove for one of those 2 teams his whole career with the odd exception. Still that odd exception was never less than 3rd best, now he's lucky if he drives the 5th best car.

Edited by Birelman, 31 July 2010 - 18:17.