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#3901 Jimmy

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 18:11

Take away the preferential treatment, take away his number 1 status, take away his number 2 teammates, take away the ordinary competition he had in the mid 90s to early 2000's take away the super budget of Ferrari and the genius of Rory Byrne and friendship with Todt...what do you have? M Schumacher style of 2010.

Finally, even his fanatics can be enlightened.


Spot on. I think this also ties in with why we haven't seen Schumacher go anywhere near an IndyCar, Touring or GT car since he retired from F1, despite clearly being willing to race. A couple of years ago Schumacher openly admitted he (and his brother) "didn't have the talent" for DTM.

http://www.touringca...ews.php?id=1772

It's a shame that, despite Schumacher's occasional humbleness and honesty regarding his abilities, his worshippers must look for (increasingly deluded) excuses.

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#3902 Birelman

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 18:14

No,it isn't. Some drivers/teams are doing well one weekend only to be completely lost the next with the new cars-that's got nothing to do with 'talent'. If they're at the mercy of the behaviour of the car+tyre+track characteristics,where does the talent come in? And if you're stuck with something that doesn't suit your style,you're done for the rest of the season: as simple as that. Plus there's the work the simulators are putting in,we don't even need the drivers or their 'talent' for that...

People ought to save the trolling until next season because there's always the chance that the driver you support might get caught out with the 2011 spec cars.

Well, Formula 1 has always been that way, the only thing is that, in the 90es and 2000s there was usually 1 car with a big advantage and more times than not, only 1 other car that was able to challenge it, hence, the guys in those cars always had a crack at it, whatever the variation to suit cars from track to track was, the variation was always overcome by their big performance advantage. Schumacher drove for one of those 2 teams his whole career with the odd exception. Still that odd exception was never less than 3rd best, now he's lucky if he drives the 5th best car.

Edited by Birelman, 31 July 2010 - 18:17.


#3903 ivand911

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 18:18

Spot on. I think this also ties in with why we haven't seen Schumacher go anywhere near an IndyCar, Touring or GT car since he retired from F1, despite clearly being willing to race. A couple of years ago Schumacher openly admitted he (and his brother) "didn't have the talent" for DTM.

http://www.touringca...ews.php?id=1772

It's a shame that, despite Schumacher's occasional humbleness and honesty regarding his abilities, his worshippers must look for (increasingly deluded) excuses.

Any other F1 driver or F1 champion who showed talent for DTM?
And his 14 year experience have nothing to do with this year cars and tyres and rules. If you(man) don't understand that , I don't know what are you doing here?
As much as you all want to say something about the only one 7 time F1 world champion, you failed. You can't change anything, he will always have more titles than your favoured driver. Just live with that. And feel small. What is he, maybe second or third richest man in F1? And yes he can drive F1 car just for fun. Because he can.

Edited by ivand911, 31 July 2010 - 18:28.


#3904 BRK

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 18:35

Well, Formula 1 has always been that way, the only thing is that, in the 90es and 2000s there was usually 1 car with a big advantage and more times than not, only 1 other car that was able to challenge it, hence, the guys in those cars always had a crack at it, whatever the variation to suit cars from track to track was, the variation was always overcome by their big performance advantage. Schumacher drove for one of those 2 teams his whole career with the odd exception. Still that odd exception was never less than 3rd best, now he's lucky if he drives the 5th best car.


Not even close. I've read more reports of drivers being baffled about their car's behaviour these last two seasons than I ever did in the nineties,it's just way too unpredictable. Back then you knew which teams were favourites going into any given weekend and they'd stay true to form-today you have cars that're quick on Friday only to fade away and not even make the cut for Q3 or the opposite. And with testing there was the possibility of a slower competitor catching up in a championship-it's pointless having a WDC/WCC today as form is entirely track dependent.

Spot on. I think this also ties in with why we haven't seen Schumacher go anywhere near an IndyCar, Touring or GT car since he retired from F1, despite clearly being willing to race. A couple of years ago Schumacher openly admitted he (and his brother) "didn't have the talent" for DTM.

http://www.touringca...ews.php?id=1772

It's a shame that, despite Schumacher's occasional humbleness and honesty regarding his abilities, his worshippers must look for (increasingly deluded) excuses.


He's never been very good with tin tops,I think most everyone knows this around here. What's a shame is that his detractors have had to look for increasingly deluded excuses to bash him as they're running out of ideas,probably sick and tired of bitching all these years.


#3905 Birelman

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 18:42

Not even close. I've read more reports of drivers being baffled about their car's behaviour these last two seasons than I ever did in the nineties,it's just way too unpredictable. Back then you knew which teams were favourites going into any given weekend and they'd stay true to form-today you have cars that're quick on Friday only to fade away and not even make the cut for Q3 or the opposite. And with testing there was the possibility of a slower competitor catching up in a championship-it's pointless having a WDC/WCC today as form is entirely track dependent.



He's never been very good with tin tops,I think most everyone knows this around here. What's a shame is that his detractors have had to look for increasingly deluded excuses to bash him as they're running out of ideas,probably sick and tired of bitching all these years.

Not even close, huh? are you sure you've been watching the same sport I have for over 30 years?

It's ALWAYS track specific! In ANY form of motorsport where you have different constructors. How about the turbo era? tire wars? That wasn't track specific, was it? (just to name a few that might be familiar to you) Actually, being track specific is one of the things that keeps it interesting. I wish it was more like that, as between race to race, you wouldn't know who was going to be the favorite package, hence, excitement. It's not meant to be a Schumacher worshipfest, where he has to win every race for you to be interested.

It is track specific that a team might bring up an upgrade and be a surprise, as was Force India in Spa last year, that's exciting, they had the right package at the right time!

The thing is, if you have an incredible advantage over the rivals, as Schumacher enjoyed a lot in his career, even if their car does suit the circuit, it's still not enough to overcome your advantage, and THAT has nothing to do with driver talent!

Edited by Birelman, 31 July 2010 - 18:44.


#3906 Sof1

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 18:42

What I'd like to see, at least once this season, is for Schumacher to pick a race, not take any gambles with set up, strategy etc... and score a good pole and a podium finish, at least just to show the fans what he can do with this car, as in matching Roseberg's feats.

Edited by Sof1, 31 July 2010 - 18:48.


#3907 ivand911

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 18:56

Do you think he takes this gambles, Ross say they give Michael this strategies just to try something or to see what will happen. I also want just normal race, qualy like they do with Nico. I don't remember such things with Jenson and Rubens last year. They say they don't understand car, how will Michael help them? I am not sure today cars were the same, floors ,diffusers. They again played with something, before big holiday. To have on what to work in the break.

#3908 BRK

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 19:00

Not even close, huh? are you sure you've been watching the same sport I have for over 30 years?

It's ALWAYS track specific! In ANY form of motorsport where you have different constructors. How about the turbo era? tire wars? That wasn't track specific, was it? (just to name a few that might be familiar to you) Actually, being track specific is one of the things that keeps it interesting. I wish it was more like that, as between race to race, you wouldn't know who was going to be the favorite package, hence, excitement. It's not meant to be a Schumacher worshipfest, where he has to win every race for you to be interested.

It is track specific that a team might bring up an upgrade and be a surprise, as was Force India in Spa last year, that's exciting, they had the right package at the right time!

The thing is, if you have an incredible advantage over the rivals, as Schumacher enjoyed a lot in his career, even if their car does suit the circuit, it's still not enough to overcome your advantage, and THAT has nothing to do with driver talent!


My point is more about the degree to which cars in this era depend upon the characteristics,not a question of whether they do or not-read the post again. Of course performance is circuit specific,just not as stupidly unpredictable as it is now. You'd always know a turbo would own on a track with an ultra long straight. You'd know,for instance,going into a certain weekend that Williams had a big advantage,followed by Ferrari and Benetton-and it'd stay that way. None of the too warm/too cold/no temperature in the tyres nonsense to shake up the order big time. It's the consistency and predictability I'm talking about. As for your upgrades they're simply a question of having a bigger or more powerful simulator-hardly the direction anybody would want the sport to go in...


I never said it wasn't exciting,and Schumacher enjoyed an 'incredible' advantage over his rivals exactly twice in his career. Seven time champ and almost won a few more,I guess you've lost count all these years...


#3909 primer

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 19:06

I have been smelling sabotage since the start. Shovlin.

No he would not do anything of that sort. Every race weekend the poor guy has to come up with some new excuses to cover up for Schumacher's inherent lack of pace. No one would want MS to be faster than Shovlin.

Roll on next season........

What for? Is one season not enough humiliation? Did Kovalainen get better during his second year at Mclaren? Did Nelson Piquet get better against Fernando the second time around? Surely that seat could use a driver who will push Rosberg rather than flatter him every weekend. :well:

#3910 man

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 19:11

Not even close. I've read more reports of drivers being baffled about their car's behaviour these last two seasons than I ever did in the nineties,it's just way too unpredictable. Back then you knew which teams were favourites going into any given weekend and they'd stay true to form-today you have cars that're quick on Friday only to fade away and not even make the cut for Q3 or the opposite. And with testing there was the possibility of a slower competitor catching up in a championship-it's pointless having a WDC/WCC today as form is entirely track dependent.



He's never been very good with tin tops,I think most everyone knows this around here. What's a shame is that his detractors have had to look for increasingly deluded excuses to bash him as they're running out of ideas,probably sick and tired of bitching all these years.


Absolute nonsense I'm afraid. There is nothing more random about GP racing today than any time previously. Cars and drivers have characteristics that suit certain combinations. It is up to the driver and team to adapt to the regulations that are set equally for all. The list of excuses given for
M Schumachers perfoances this year are creating needless and futile "debate". He is being beaten fair and square.

#3911 aditya-now

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 19:13

Spot on. I think this also ties in with why we haven't seen Schumacher go anywhere near an IndyCar, Touring or GT car since he retired from F1, despite clearly being willing to race. A couple of years ago Schumacher openly admitted he (and his brother) "didn't have the talent" for DTM.

http://www.touringca...ews.php?id=1772

It's a shame that, despite Schumacher's occasional humbleness and honesty regarding his abilities, his worshippers must look for (increasingly deluded) excuses.


Spot on. This also ties in with the fact that Schumacher was not that great in prototypes in 1990 either - Frentzen and Wendlinger had the better of Michael. Therefore it was even a great surprise to people who knew how Frentzen pipped Schumacher in endurance racing that Schumacher was better in F1.


#3912 aditya-now

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 19:17

Next race Michael should receive a new chassi. Let's wait and see if it makes a difference. As for me, I already said that Michael should be up to 0.3 sec slower if it the problem was only in the driver.


Aha, the chassis excuse again. We had that already earlier this season - after China, to be exact.


#3913 ivand911

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 19:20

MICHAEL SCHUMACHER
“Obviously qualifying was not ideal for us today. After yesterday’s performance, we purposely went for a different set-up which was supposed to tell us more about the car and was targeted more towards the race. It seemed to be reasonable this morning but as the track became hotter in qualifying, it went against us. Our set-up should work better in the race although starting from 14th place does not make it easy. Being on the dirty side of the starting grid does not specifically help, but I will certainly try again to have a good start tomorrow. And from then on we will have to see how the race develops.”
ROSS BRAWN
“We’ve had a challenging weekend with the cars here so far. We did make some progress this morning prior to qualifying and clearly we got the car to suit Nico and he did an excellent job this afternoon. However we didn’t find the right solutions for Michael which was not helped by some vibration problems on his last set of tyres in Q2. I must compliment Nico on a great job and achieving a strong starting position which is as good as we could have hoped given the performance of the car.”
NORBERT HAUG
“Nico and our team did the maximum they could and achieved the best possible result for us today. Sixth place on the dirty side of the track with less grip is not the ideal place for a good start, but our result could have been worse after we faced some problems in finding the right set-up direction for the cars yesterday. Well done to the team for the recovery. Michael tried a different set-up solution which did not work out in the end. A week at Hockenheim, he was eight-thousands of a second slower than Nico and here the margin is much bigger so we just did not get it right.”

It is very hard to understand? The cars were set up differently, this is why the result. They wanted again to try something extreme with Michael? Again. Why, when they have good solution with Nico, they didn't use it with Michael? This mean both race teams don't work together?

Edited by ivand911, 31 July 2010 - 19:31.


#3914 chrisblades85

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 19:27

What for? Is one season not enough humiliation? Did Kovalainen get better during his second year at Mclaren? Did Nelson Piquet get better against Fernando the second time around? Surely that seat could use a driver who will push Rosberg rather than flatter him every weekend. :well:


Well it can only get better. In a car that has had proper development and designed to work the tyres better it may suit Micheal.

And to be fair. Micheal isn't Nelson or Heikki.

Clearly you don't like him, fair enough. But to compare him to average drivers, is wide of the mark.

EDIT: I'm biased!

Edited by chrisblades85, 31 July 2010 - 19:29.


#3915 Birelman

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 19:30

My point is more about the degree to which cars in this era depend upon the characteristics,not a question of whether they do or not-read the post again. Of course performance is circuit specific,just not as stupidly unpredictable as it is now. You'd always know a turbo would own on a track with an ultra long straight. You'd know,for instance,going into a certain weekend that Williams had a big advantage,followed by Ferrari and Benetton-and it'd stay that way. None of the too warm/too cold/no temperature in the tyres nonsense to shake up the order big time. It's the consistency and predictability I'm talking about. As for your upgrades they're simply a question of having a bigger or more powerful simulator-hardly the direction anybody would want the sport to go in...


I never said it wasn't exciting,and Schumacher enjoyed an 'incredible' advantage over his rivals exactly twice in his career. Seven time champ and almost won a few more,I guess you've lost count all these years...

By incredible advantage over his rivals I meant the advantage that the top dogs (Teams) had over their rivals. It narrowed down the possibilities of threats. I never count what years a driver has an advantage or not, a WDC is a WDC and you don't win them by chance, or luck, you must be confusing me with a knowledgeless fan :)

Edited by Birelman, 31 July 2010 - 19:30.


#3916 Birelman

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 19:32

Spot on. This also ties in with the fact that Schumacher was not that great in prototypes in 1990 either - Frentzen and Wendlinger had the better of Michael. Therefore it was even a great surprise to people who knew how Frentzen pipped Schumacher in endurance racing that Schumacher was better in F1.

Yea, as much as his fans love cross teammate comparisons, I never understand why they never accept that comparison as a valid one.

#3917 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 19:34

I think Schumacher gave up after Canada and has since just started experimenting with tyres, fuel loads, strategies in preperation for next year. The only positive i can see is that he'll be fully up to speed with the dynamics of the new generation of F1 cars.

When he hasn't gone crazy experimenting, the two have actually been fairly close in terms of race pace and results. Has anyone else noticed this?

#3918 ivand911

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 19:40

Yea, as much as his fans love cross teammate comparisons, I never understand why they never accept that comparison as a valid one.

What comparison in karts, he beat them all(in Brazil organised by Massa) . In ROC he beat all F1 drivers. In buggy , karts and WRC. And this is now. No what was 20 year ago. Drivers develop you know?

Edited by ivand911, 31 July 2010 - 19:49.


#3919 Birelman

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 19:45

What comparison in carts, he beat them all(in Brazil organised by Massa) . In ROC he beat all F1 drivers. In buggy , carts and WRC. And this is now. No what was 20 year ago. Drivers develop you know?

You mean Karts?

He raced WRC?

So, whoever wins a go-Kart race is the best? Cool!! Schumacher never became World Karting Champion, neither did Senna. At least Senna came in second twice. Schumacher never achieved that much, actually, comments of his karting career aren't exactly stellar, I guess that settles everything. Mike Wilson would have been 10 times Formula 1 champion then!!!! :up: :up: :up:

Edited by Birelman, 31 July 2010 - 19:47.


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#3920 primer

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 19:46

Absolute nonsense I'm afraid. There is nothing more random about GP racing today than any time previously. Cars and drivers have characteristics that suit certain combinations. It is up to the driver and team to adapt to the regulations that are set equally for all. The list of excuses given for
M Schumachers perfoances this year are creating needless and futile "debate". He is being beaten fair and square.


+1. If it was Nico getting outperformed like this, would the Schumacher fans extend these lame excuses to rationalize his lack of pace? No, of course not, they would be too busy celebrating the return of Schumacher the great.

It is a pity Nico's performance have been overshadowed by his underperforming team mate this season. He has beaten MS, even though entire Mercedes GP organization is dedicated to speeding up Schumacher. To them improving the car has become synonymous with improving Schumacher's pace, poor Nico can only watch and wait for Mercedes to wake up and smell the coffee.

#3921 Birelman

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 19:49

+1. If it was Nico getting outperformed like this, would the Schumacher fans extend these lame excuses to rationalize his lack of pace? No, of course not, they would be too busy celebrating the return of Schumacher the great.

It is a pity Nico's performance have been overshadowed by his underperforming team mate this season. He has beaten MS, even though entire Mercedes GP organization is dedicated to speeding up Schumacher. To them improving the car has become synonymous with improving Schumacher's pace, poor Nico can only watch and wait for Mercedes to wake up and smell the coffee.

:up: And of course, when Schumacher beat an aging Piquet it had nothing to do with Piquet's age or Flavio's driver preference. Only Schumacher brilliance!!!! :drunk:

#3922 chrisblades85

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 19:49

+1. If it was Nico getting outperformed like this, would the Schumacher fans extend these lame excuses to rationalize his lack of pace? No, of course not, they would be too busy celebrating the return of Schumacher the great.

It is a pity Nico's performance have been overshadowed by his underperforming team mate this season. He has beaten MS, even though entire Mercedes GP organization is dedicated to speeding up Schumacher. To them improving the car has become synonymous with improving Schumacher's pace, poor Nico can only watch and wait for Mercedes to wake up and smell the coffee.



Can I just say, I am a massive Schumacher fan. But, it's been dissapointing, hasn't it. Beaten fairly and sqaurely. I can't see any defence for him. OK, car may not be to his liking etc, but a few years ago, he would have driven round the problem.

#3923 arknor

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 19:49

Perhaps... Though I think a certain Mr Rosberg would disagree...Over half a second quicker... Out qualified 10 times...in the same car. Still I've been told M Schumacher will show us all in 2011. :-)

schumacher of early to late ninties would be out of rosbergs league but you keep on dreaming

#3924 ivand911

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 19:51

+1. If it was Nico getting outperformed like this, would the Schumacher fans extend these lame excuses to rationalize his lack of pace? No, of course not, they would be too busy celebrating the return of Schumacher the great.

It is a pity Nico's performance have been overshadowed by his underperforming team mate this season. He has beaten MS, even though entire Mercedes GP organization is dedicated to speeding up Schumacher. To them improving the car has become synonymous with improving Schumacher's pace, poor Nico can only watch and wait for Mercedes to wake up and smell the coffee.

And in this time Nico is sitting and counting his wins.

#3925 Birelman

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 19:52

schumacher of early to late ninties would be out of rosbergs league but you keep on dreaming

At least you make sense there, most of his fans can't understand that after all, he's just human.

#3926 Diablobb81

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 19:55

He has beaten MS, even though entire Mercedes GP organization is dedicated to speeding up Schumacher. To them improving the car has become synonymous with improving Schumacher's pace, poor Nico can only watch and wait for Mercedes to wake up and smell the coffee.


Complete and utter BS. Merc and Schumi are helping and giving everything for him for a long time.

For Merc there is one thing important for this season : that Nico stays at least 6th. And he is delivering for now.

#3927 Birelman

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 19:56

Complete and utter BS. Merc and Schumi are helping and giving everything for him for a long time.

For Merc there is one thing important for this season : that Nico stays at least 6th. And he is delivering for now.

LOL wonder if he smelled the coffee between 1996 and 2006?

#3928 ivand911

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 20:01

You mean Karts?

He raced WRC?

So, whoever wins a go-Kart race is the best? Cool!! Schumacher never became World Karting Champion, neither did Senna. At least Senna came in second twice. Schumacher never achieved that much, actually, comments of his karting career aren't exactly stellar, I guess that settles everything. Mike Wilson would have been 10 times Formula 1 champion then!!!! :up: :up: :up:

Yes, in Race of Champions they drive WRC cars. And in kart races organised by Massa 2009 he beat Massa,Rubens,Liuzzi and di Grassi.
http://www.f1fanatic...e-this-weekend/


#3929 aditya-now

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 20:04

Well,last race before the break,8 more races and we're done with 2010. :up:

Today was pretty disappointing,as most of this season has been,for MS and fans like myself: joy on the other side of the fence,I'd imagine. :lol: That said,some of the comments on here are pretty sad-don't care for the trolls but also from some of the others whose opinions I respected...

:cry: :cry: :cry:



When they changed the rules in 2009 I was hoping for a better spectacle as on paper they were meant to emphasize the role of the driver more,but judging by the way these two seasons have played out I think they've only made it worse,overall.


As we have seen, the spectacle has become better in 2010 - the number of overtakes has increased by a third with the new regs (David Croft and Karun Chandok were discussing these stats in the FP1 of Hockenheim).

The rules indeed bring out the driver more, as we see not only in the example of Rosberg-Schumacher but also in other cases.
Make no mistake, Schumacher was never that good to begin with, but he profited from a very special set of rules between 1994 and 2006, fitting his driving style. Plus some very special conditions that he enjoyed historically, already amply discussed on this thread.

No refuelling is what nailed Michael´s coffin - he cannot produce his trademark go kart-style sprint races anymore but - with more fuel and the car thus heavier, the whole coordinates have changed to his detriment. Tyre problems are just a consequence of this.

Remember how well Michael drove in Felipe Massa´s go-kart challenge in late 2009 as well as in other go-kart races. Schumacher is still a decent go-kart driver.

Plus: Michael doesn´t seem to be able to get a good set-up together which hurts him in quali, at least not as decent as Rosberg. It seems that the ban on testing hurts Michael more than all the other drivers, and we see it in his set-up difficulties. Needless to say, Michael was the driver who complained in public that there is no more testing, which is a little cynical, given the overall economic situation and also the specific situation for most F1 teams. Of course, Michael is, as always in the history of his career, only interested in getting the elements for his success in place - in itself a mark of a champion, but given the overall economic situation still very cynical.

#3930 Birelman

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 20:04

Yes, in Race of Champions they drive WRC cars. And in kart races organised by Massa 2009 he beat Massa,Rubens,Liuzzi and di Grassi.
http://www.f1fanatic...e-this-weekend/

Well, that isn't exactly racing WRC, right? it's just a rally car. I thought you meant he was racing WRC like Raikkonen is doing.

As for Massa's yearly karting race. What can I say? how many F1 championships are shared between all those he beat? lol

This is a silly topic I'm sure we will never see eye to eye on, best just leave it at that. :)

Edited by Birelman, 31 July 2010 - 20:06.


#3931 ivand911

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 20:15

I heard a lot of teams in favour of testing? Michael is not cynical here. :) He don't want the same amount like before, but he want some testing for all. I also prefer trainings to be preparations for race and qualy . Not to be testing sessions. Or results could be just luck.
I didn't say racing in WRC, if you know what ROC is, you will know what I am talking about. He beat there a lot of champions. Button is one.

Edited by ivand911, 31 July 2010 - 20:19.


#3932 Birelman

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 20:18

I heard a lot of teams in favour of testing? Michael is not cynical here. :) He don't want the same amount like before, but he want some testing for all. I also prefer trainings to be preparations for race and qualy . Not to be testing sessions. Or results could be just luck.
I didn't say racing in WRC, if you know what ROC is, you will know what I am talking about.

LOL does anyone not know what ROC is?

#3933 aditya-now

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 20:20

MS is old school.

Anyway,I've personally had about enough with this era. It's a bit of a poker game to me-if all variables are in place for a team you are guaranteed a formation grid (RBR,RBR,Ferrari,Ferrari) because talent plays very little part in the process.


MS is relatively new school.

Old school is what you claim "I've personally had about enough with this era" - it´s not just 2010, which is a return of sorts to the roots of the sport, but also the 60s, the 70s and the 80s. The real heritage of the sport. Schumacher just lucked into the 1990s when the regs were changed in his fav. The moment the regs were not in his favour anymore (2010), we see were he stands.

Hamilton or Alonso are much closer to old school drivers like Clark or Senna.

F1 was never short distance/sprint racing but middle distance, the most difficult distance to compete in.
To make a comparison with track & fields, F1 is not 100m, 200m or 400m dash. Neither is it a marathon (like Le Mans). Genuine is and has always been the most difficult distance of them all, 10.000 metres.
For that, please enquire with any track & field athlete.

Edited by aditya-now, 31 July 2010 - 20:21.


#3934 Birelman

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 20:26

MS is relatively new school.

Old school is what you claim "I've personally had about enough with this era" - it´s not just 2010, which is a return of sorts to the roots of the sport, but also the 60s, the 70s and the 80s. The real heritage of the sport. Schumacher just lucked into the 1990s when the regs were changed in his fav. The moment the regs were not in his favour anymore (2010), we see were he stands.

Hamilton or Alonso are much closer to old school drivers like Clark or Senna.

F1 was never short distance/sprint racing but middle distance, the most difficult distance to compete in.
To make a comparison with track & fields, F1 is not 100m, 200m or 400m dash. Neither is it a marathon (like Le Mans). Genuine is and has always been the most difficult distance of them all, 10.000 metres.
For that, please enquire with any track & field athlete.

Well said :up:

#3935 man

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 20:33

MS is relatively new school.

Old school is what you claim "I've personally had about enough with this era" - it´s not just 2010, which is a return of sorts to the roots of the sport, but also the 60s, the 70s and the 80s. The real heritage of the sport. Schumacher just lucked into the 1990s when the regs were changed in his fav. The moment the regs were not in his favour anymore (2010), we see were he stands.

Hamilton or Alonso are much closer to old school drivers like Clark or Senna.

F1 was never short distance/sprint racing but middle distance, the most difficult distance to compete in.
To make a comparison with track & fields, F1 is not 100m, 200m or 400m dash. Neither is it a marathon (like Le Mans). Genuine is and has always been the most difficult distance of them all, 10.000 metres.
For that, please enquire with any track & field athlete.


Indeed. Many M Schumacher fans give the impression they have followed the sport at some point after 1993. The "good old days" were in my book from the 80's and earlier. Drivers had to be brave, intelligent and sensible with the dangers involved. The likes of Nelson Poquet hated the fact that telemetry came into play in the 80s because he felt he lost an advantage. The refuelling era of the 90s and 200s were horrible. The quickest car won with the best team usually. It was great to see the likes of Lauda Prost Senna use their brains to beat their rivals rather than just the raw pace of their cars. F1 is more pure now than it has been since 1993 in many respects.

#3936 primer

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 21:02

And in this time Nico is sitting and counting his wins.


He could have been in contention for wins if Mercedes focused on building the fastest possible car, not a car in which Schumacher will be faster than Nico.

#3937 exmayol

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 21:18

So what's next on the experiment list? Another start on softs when you gotta be starting on hards? Another inappropriately timed pit stop? Too much stuff this season goes way the opposite of common sense. While Michael is not in his top form the results are way below than they should be. I mean things were going uphill till Canada puncture.. from then on its all downhill.

#3938 Urawa

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 22:00

So what's next on the experiment list? Another start on softs when you gotta be starting on hards? Another inappropriately timed pit stop? Too much stuff this season goes way the opposite of common sense. While Michael is not in his top form the results are way below than they should be. I mean things were going uphill till Canada puncture.. from then on its all downhill.


I´m sure they´ll find something funny for us. Maybe staying out on dry tyres as the only car when a little shower comes up...

#3939 Birelman

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 22:02

I´m sure they´ll find something funny for us. Maybe staying out on dry tyres as the only car when a little shower comes up...

or putting wets on when there's like 5 more laps before the rain comes, but I guess that's reserved for when he calls the shots for other drivers

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#3940 aditya-now

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 22:02

So what's next on the experiment list? Another start on softs when you gotta be starting on hards? Another inappropriately timed pit stop? Too much stuff this season goes way the opposite of common sense. While Michael is not in his top form the results are way below than they should be. I mean things were going uphill till Canada puncture.. from then on its all downhill.


Also it´s rubbish to blame all these nonsense decisions on the team.
After all, Michael is a grown-up man, a WDC nonetheless, he should be able to have a say in the choice of strategy by now....

#3941 Birelman

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 22:03

Also it´s rubbish to blame all these nonsense decisions on the team.
After all, Michael is a grown-up man, a WDC nonetheless, he should be able to have a say in the choice of strategy by now....

Nah, that's only true if the strategy works out  ;)

#3942 aditya-now

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 22:04

Nah, that's only true if the strategy works out ;)


Gotcha! :lol:


#3943 Urawa

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 22:05

or putting wets on when there's like 5 more laps before the rain comes, but I guess that's reserved for when he calls the shots for other drivers


Give me a sensible source that it was MS who came up with the idea and not the yellow press shit, or stay quiet.

#3944 Birelman

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 22:09

Give me a sensible source that it was MS who came up with the idea and not the yellow press shit, or stay quiet.

LOL stay quiet? That's a bit rude, isn't it?

I don't search the internet for proof like some here do, sorry. I might be wrong, but, I seem to recall somewhere where Michael Schumacher himself said he made the call, or contributed to it. Then there's the fact that everyone made a big fuzz about him making the call, if the shoe fits....

#3945 Urawa

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 22:11

LOL stay quiet? That's a bit rude, isn't it?

I don't search the internet for proof like some here do, sorry. I might be wrong, but, I seem to recall somewhere where Michael Schumacher himself said he made the call, or contributed to it. Then there's the fact that everyone made a big fuzz about him making the call, if the shoe fits....


You said he made the call, so if he made it, it should be no problem to find a credible source, not?
I say it once again: MS has problems, big problems when it comes down to low fuel runs but if some here don´t see the "break" in his accomplishments between Turkey/Canada well...
Since then he was used as a guinea pig for all kinds of weird strategies, set-up and that´s what pi*ses me off

Edited by Urawa, 31 July 2010 - 22:18.


#3946 Birelman

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 22:17

You said he made the call, so if he made it, it should be no problem to find a credible source, not?

No, I didn't say he made the call in my original post, read it again. did I say "he, Schumacher, is guilty for the crime of making the call to put rain tires in Raikkonen's Ferrari when it was dry and is therefore sentenced to burning at the mercy of Autosport's haters" Did I say that? :p

#3947 Urawa

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 22:22

No, I didn't say he made the call in my original post, read it again. did I say "he, Schumacher, is guilty for the crime of making the call to put rain tires in Raikkonen's Ferrari when it was dry and is therefore sentenced to burning at the mercy of Autosport's haters" Did I say that? :p


or putting wets on when there's like 5 more laps before the rain comes, but I guess that's reserved for when he calls the shots for other drivers



#3948 Birelman

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 22:25

Oh? that's saying he made the call? That's saying he used to make calls for Ferrari during that time, did he not? That didn't accuse him of making the call, simply states he was involved int hat type of decision making as an adviser. Anyway, I don't look for stuff about what happened a year and a half ago, I'd rather read here and laugh. :)

#3949 Urawa

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 22:28

Oh? that's saying he made the call? That's saying he used to make calls for Ferrari during that time, did he not? That didn't accuse him of making the call, simply states he was involved int hat type of decision making as an adviser. Anyway, I don't look for stuff about what happened a year and a half ago, I'd rather read here and laugh. :)


Who says he did? His role was never made clear in public. He did not even had his own seat at the pit wall, why should he get involved in strategy decisions? Who said that?

#3950 Birelman

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 22:30

Who says he did? His role was never made clear in public. He did not even had his own seat at the pit wall, why should he get involved in strategy decisions? Who said that?

Lots of people believe he did, I don't really care man, lol if you'd really feel better I can say he didn't make the call... :rolleyes: