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#4101 as65p

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:15

And that has what to do with the fact that MS prediction was realistic and Rosberg talked up the car more than once?


Wasn't MS once hailed of staying ever optimistic, never talking a bad word about car or team, not even in 2005? Now with Rosberg that's suddenly a bad thing, strange... :drunk:

Besides, it's not even true, Rosberg was outspoken too about theri performance deficit. Just maybe to a lesser degree, which might have a direct correlation to the degree his results are better than those of MS.



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#4102 Urawa

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:22

Besides, it's not even true, Rosberg was outspoken too about theri performance deficit. Just maybe to a lesser degree, which might have a direct correlation to the degree his results are better than those of MS.


It´s very true and you know it, I can give you tons of sources for that. He came up with it almost weekly.

#4103 as65p

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:32

It´s very true and you know it, I can give you tons of sources for that. He came up with it almost weekly.


Do we agree now, or not? I'm a bit lost on what you think I must know to be true. :confused:

My take is that Rosberg was trying (as most drivers do) to stay politically correct and positive, but he also critizised the car heavily at times.

And I maintain it's quite dishonest to now have a go at Rosberg for his positivism while the same was constantly praised as a great asset to motivate the team in MS' first career.

#4104 Urawa

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:41

Do we agree now, or not? I'm a bit lost on what you think I must know to be true. :confused:

My take is that Rosberg was trying (as most drivers do) to stay politically correct and positive, but he also critizised the car heavily at times.

And I maintain it's quite dishonest to now have a go at Rosberg for his positivism while the same was constantly praised as a great asset to motivate the team in MS' first career.


No, I´m with you. Optimism is good if it stays within range of realism. After some races Rosberg looked "surprised" about the results of his car.
And I say it was no surprise after what we have seen after winter testing and the first races.
MS made some comments about the car before the start of the season and the Mercedes board came up 24h later and forced him to turn around his opinion in public and make it more "friendly". I knew after this incident that this would not turn out to be a good season.

#4105 as65p

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:55

No, I´m with you. Optimism is good if it stays within range of realism. After some races Rosberg looked "surprised" about the results of his car.
And I say it was no surprise after what we have seen after winter testing and the first races.
MS made some comments about the car before the start of the season and the Mercedes board came up 24h later and forced him to turn around his opinion in public and make it more "friendly". I knew after this incident that this would not turn out to be a good season.


Yep, in hindsight that was a big clue to their initial form. During the season though, the problem appears not so much to be where they started with the car but that apparently none of their updates works as expected.

#4106 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:58

Apparently you miss how with Rosberg the car is constantly upper midfield, at times with podium potential. Only under MS it's justified to claim that she sucks. Puzzling that... :drunk:

Multi year deal, yeah right. It's about the only escape road left ATM, and they're using it desperately. Problem is, it's a dead-end road.

rosberg was talking about wdc chances and a wdc contender car while michael was saying the car is not there
guess who was right

#4107 SimMaker

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:59

rosberg was talking about wdc chances and a wdc contender car while michael was saying the car is not there
guess who was right


Did they try to make the car more to MSC liking? And hence, it turned into a shitty car?

#4108 Diablobb81

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 10:03

Did they try to make the car more to MSC liking? And hence, it turned into a shitty car?


No and no. The base is shitty so no matter what updates they throw into it will simply not work.

#4109 as65p

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 10:05

rosberg was talking about wdc chances and a wdc contender car while michael was saying the car is not there
guess who was right


MS was certainly right. All the more because if we imagine for a moment that the car was good enough to lift Rosberg in the WDC leading position Webber is now in with 161 points, MS (on points percentage with everything else unchanged) would still only have 65 points with no shot at the title.

#4110 baddog

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 10:08

Did they try to make the car more to MSC liking? And hence, it turned into a shitty car?

Thats pretty silly isnt it?

#4111 marchi-91

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 10:09

IMHO I will be surprised if MS is on the grid next year, especially if he continues like that.
I don't think he will quit, he is to stubborn for that, but the Merc board will take a decision.


Do you honestly think that with the backing of Brawn and Haug, Mercedes will terminate his contract :lol: :lol:

On top of that his contract would be water tight. He came back to f1 on a massive pay cut. His merchandise alone this season would almost cover his pay, so why sack that driver??? And if you haven't noticed, even when struggling for pace, the cameras are still the ones pointing out Michael. Even when Rosberg is having a better weekend, they still focus on Michael. After Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel and Webber, he's probably the next most viewed driver. Something you can't put a price on in the marketing world.



#4112 Juan Kerr

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 10:25

So do you see Rosberg "going away" for Michael to make this transformation Juan?

Not at all Rosberg will be fine I'm sure but the problem is Michael, for the first time he is struggling to understand what the heck is going on with the KERS tyres (see Brawn interview) and the way they changed the performance of them since he's been gone. Its a proper management program now on how to drive them when to push them and the understeering characteristics. He is also struggling with the generic behaviour of the car (Button comment), if you all remember when Michael joined Ferrari the car was miles off what he wanted but slowly and surely with miles and miles of testing he moulded it to how he liked. Likewise Berger and Alesi were throwng the Benetton off the road all the time trying to understand Schumacher's set-up, Michael drives no better than any average F1 driver in a standard handling car but being the most succesful driver ever has many reasons one of these being the specific type of car handling that he needs to get in front of the others.
I do expect them to get on top of it again as before with some more R&D and testing. The only question over Michael returning was his motivation and fitness and we can all surely agree that there's no question marks there now. The bloke is as fit as anyone in the paddock and extremely determined.

#4113 ivand911

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 10:26

Do you honestly think that with the backing of Brawn and Haug, Mercedes will terminate his contract :lol: :lol:

On top of that his contract would be water tight. He came back to f1 on a massive pay cut. His merchandise alone this season would almost cover his pay, so why sack that driver??? And if you haven't noticed, even when struggling for pace, the cameras are still the ones pointing out Michael. Even when Rosberg is having a better weekend, they still focus on Michael. After Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel and Webber, he's probably the next most viewed driver. Something you can't put a price on in the marketing world.

I think most viewed driver is different in different countries. But in total Michael is most viewed. In Hungary everything was around him. He cut cakes, he takes awards first. Yes but, he bring 10% more money for Hungary organizers. For Australia also more money, for other events also. Money,Money,Money.

Edited by ivand911, 03 August 2010 - 10:27.


#4114 Lifew12

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 10:28

Hockenheim & Hungaroring was almot full,


Don't know about Hingary but Hockenheim was very far from 'almost full'.

#4115 Big Block 8

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 10:34

rosberg was talking about wdc chances and a wdc contender car while michael was saying the car is not there
guess who was right


Rosberg was 2nd in the WDC standings after the 4th race of the season. He surely would have stayed as a WDC contender if the MGP's following improvements had worked.

So Rosberg was right about the car being a WDC contender when it was first introduced, he just lacked a crystal ball to see that the team would cock it up later on. But that can hardly be blamed on him.

#4116 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 10:36

Did they try to make the car more to MSC liking? And hence, it turned into a shitty car?

no x 2
the car was shitty no matter who was there to drive it.
it was not WCC material, in fact not even close

#4117 Number62

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 10:41

Do you honestly think that with the backing of Brawn and Haug, Mercedes will terminate his contract :lol: :lol:

On top of that his contract would be water tight. He came back to f1 on a massive pay cut. His merchandise alone this season would almost cover his pay, so why sack that driver??? And if you haven't noticed, even when struggling for pace, the cameras are still the ones pointing out Michael. Even when Rosberg is having a better weekend, they still focus on Michael. After Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel and Webber, he's probably the next most viewed driver. Something you can't put a price on in the marketing world.


I'm not sure you understand marketing.

Focus is only good when the message is positive.

When the whole world was talking about Singapore 08, do you think that was good for Renault?

When the whole world was talking about brake failures was that good for Toyota?

See Gerald Ratner, BP, Barclaycard, etc. etc.

Schumacher's '10 season is not contributing positively to the brand value of Mercedes Benz.

#4118 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 10:44

Rosberg was 2nd in the WDC standings after the 4th race of the season. He surely would have stayed as a WDC contender if the MGP's following improvements had worked.

So Rosberg was right about the car being a WDC contender when it was first introduced, he just lacked a crystal ball to see that the team would cock it up later on. But that can hardly be blamed on him.

I guess you don't know what a wdc contender should look like..and neither did nico.
the base of the car was bad, pretty fu#$cked up. there was no way they were going to develop it. That was obvious during testing when they decided to develop a longer wheelbase version
the fact that he was 2nd despite being off the pace compared to at least 2 other teams was circumstantial. It would not work over a season, you can't win a title like that (with having at least 4 cars faster than you)

#4119 Buttoneer

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 10:52

Just a reminder that there is a separate thread for Nico and Schumacher so specific discussion ought to take place there. There is also a thread to discuss the the Car itself.

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#4120 man

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 10:52

The cameras are on M Schumacher like they were on Michael Jackson....he has become the laughing stock...and as with Michael Jackson, he will always have diehard and rather amusing fans and the whole combination is what generates the interest - hence tv coverage. The old cliche that bad publicity is good publicity is not always a realistic or accurate perspective to adopt.

While there is no doubt M Schumacher has a wealth of experience that the design/engineering team will take into consideration, they have to take his opinions with a pinch of salt. Something that he finds not "good" enough or "fast" enough may apply to him but to a much lesser degree to a guy like Rosberg.

#4121 aditya-now

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 10:53

I guess you don't know what a wdc contender should look like..and neither did nico.


---but MikeTekRacing knows, what Nico doesn´t know!
:up:



#4122 Yorkie

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 10:59

Not at all Rosberg will be fine I'm sure but the problem is Michael, for the first time he is struggling to understand what the heck is going on with the KERS tyres (see Brawn interview) and the way they changed the performance of them since he's been gone. Its a proper management program now on how to drive them when to push them and the understeering characteristics. He is also struggling with the generic behaviour of the car (Button comment), if you all remember when Michael joined Ferrari the car was miles off what he wanted but slowly and surely with miles and miles of testing he moulded it to how he liked. Likewise Berger and Alesi were throwng the Benetton off the road all the time trying to understand Schumacher's set-up, Michael drives no better than any average F1 driver in a standard handling car but being the most succesful driver ever has many reasons one of these being the specific type of car handling that he needs to get in front of the others.
I do expect them to get on top of it again as before with some more R&D and testing. The only question over Michael returning was his motivation and fitness and we can all surely agree that there's no question marks there now. The bloke is as fit as anyone in the paddock and extremely determined.

For starters the car is not competitve which MS can do nothing about, another thing is that the front tyres are too narrow for his driving style causing too much understeer. He no longer has a car advantage or bespoke wide Bridgestone front tyres which suited him perfectly, without these advantages he's looking quite ordinary. His hopes for next year are that Mercedes produce a better car and that Pirelli produce tyres that better suit his driving style but against the current crop of F1 drivers and with no bespoke advantages he's not going to stand out like before

#4123 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 11:06

---but MikeTekRacing knows, what Nico doesn´t know!
:up:

no smart guy, michael schumacher knows
you know, the guy that won it about 7 times and came close to winning around 3 more

#4124 Urawa

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 11:11

I think the narrow front tyres are only one part of the puzzle. At Ferrari we had years were they used smaller front tyres on purpose (while Michelin went the other way) and he was perfectly fine with it. It´s always a matter of the whole picture. We´ll see how it works out in the futuere.

#4125 aditya-now

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 11:27

no smart guy, michael schumacher knows
you know, the guy that won it about 7 times and came close to winning around 3 more


Who is no smart guy, MikeTekRacing, Nico or Michael Schumacher?
Your post is a bit ambivalent...


#4126 Big Block 8

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 11:48

I guess you don't know what a wdc contender should look like..and neither did nico.


:lol:

the base of the car was bad, pretty fu#$cked up. there was no way they were going to develop it. That was obvious during testing when they decided to develop a longer wheelbase version
the fact that he was 2nd despite being off the pace compared to at least 2 other teams was circumstantial. It would not work over a season, you can't win a title like that (with having at least 4 cars faster than you)


In the first 4 races Nico had grid positions of 5, 6, 2 and 4 so yes it was pretty quick (even Schumacher managed 7, 7, 8 and 9). In race trim the MGP car was still well in the mix of 4 pretty even best teams (Ferrari, McLaren, MGP and Red Bull), with only Red Bull showing a consistent speed advantage, but simultaneously being hampered by reliability problems. Only problem for the MGP was that their further developments went sour compared with the opposition. And no way they knew that (and definitely YOU didn't know that) beforehand, otherwise they would not have built the damn things in the first place.

You are right in one thing though, with such a quitter attitude "boo hoo we just can't develop this car" ever since the day 1 no one would win a title. Fortunately for them no one at least during the first 4 GPs in the MGP team said such a thing.

#4127 Galko877

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 12:01

I was at the Hungaroring and Michael is still one of the most popular drivers if not THE most popular, judging by the reaction of the crowds. On a neutral track like the Hungaroring at least. (I'm sure in Britain it's Hamilton and in Spain it's Alonso.)

And BTW, this year there were at least 2x as many people as last year....

Edited by Galko877, 03 August 2010 - 12:02.


#4128 aditya-now

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 12:02

In the first 4 races Nico had grid positions of 5, 6, 2 and 4 so yes it was pretty quick (even Schumacher managed 7, 7, 8 and 9). In race trim the MGP car was still well in the mix of 4 pretty even best teams (Ferrari, McLaren, MGP and Red Bull), with only Red Bull showing a consistent speed advantage, but simultaneously being hampered by reliability problems. Only problem for the MGP was that their further developments went sour compared with the opposition. And no way they knew that (and definitely YOU didn't know that) beforehand, otherwise they would not have built the damn things in the first place.


Might it be that it is not only their developements that went sour, but that in fact they tried to suit the car to Michael Schumacher´s driving style, and thus made the car slower?

Heaven forbid I bring up such a heretic thought! :eek:

#4129 Zoe

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 12:15

I was at the Hungaroring and Michael is still one of the most popular drivers if not THE most popular, judging by the reaction of the crowds. On a neutral track like the Hungaroring at least. (I'm sure in Britain it's Hamilton and in Spain it's Alonso.)


You mean, there's a real life outside of this forum?

*gasp* what a brave theory, we've always been told in here by "the experts" that "everybody knows" etc.....  ;) :) :drunk:

Zoe

#4130 ivand911

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 12:44

Might it be that it is not only their developements that went sour, but that in fact they tried to suit the car to Michael Schumacher´s driving style, and thus made the car slower?

Heaven forbid I bring up such a heretic thought! :eek:

Sorry, you are not the first one. :wave: If I have euro, for every time I hear this theory................


#4131 Big Block 8

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 13:49

Might it be that it is not only their developements that went sour, but that in fact they tried to suit the car to Michael Schumacher´s driving style, and thus made the car slower?

Heaven forbid I bring up such a heretic thought! :eek:


:)

Don't know to what extent MGP has split their resources, but of course Nico isn't now as quick as he would be if the team had concentrated their efforts solely on him and made Schumacher merely a rubber compound guinea pig since race one.

I doubt Nico would even in that case be a legitimate WDC contender, but he could well pull off a couple of surprise GPs, as the gap between the two MGP drivers would be a lot larger then than it is now. Which using a certain driver evaluating method would also mean that Schumacher would show the true capabilities of the car and Nico is X seconds faster than any other driver on the grid. That evaluating method was very popular especially in the 90s in certain comparisons. ;)

#4132 Sof1

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 19:06

Good thing MGP has decided to start focusing most of their efforts towards next year's car. They need to fix this mockery of a car.



#4133 chrisblades85

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 19:13

I was at the Hungaroring and Michael is still one of the most popular drivers if not THE most popular, judging by the reaction of the crowds. On a neutral track like the Hungaroring at least. (I'm sure in Britain it's Hamilton and in Spain it's Alonso.)

And BTW, this year there were at least 2x as many people as last year....


Certainly not in Britain. Can count on one hand how many Shumacher hats were around!

Red and Silver however....

#4134 Absulute

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 21:32

Do you guys think He'll stick around for next year? I won't blame him if he bowed out again.

http://formulawin.wo...our-time-is-up/

#4135 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 21:44

:lol:



In the first 4 races Nico had grid positions of 5, 6, 2 and 4 so yes it was pretty quick

not going to win any titles with it, sorry

#4136 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 21:45

Who is no smart guy, MikeTekRacing, Nico or Michael Schumacher?

I can tell you who isn't "for sure" :lol: , but you missed him from the list

nevertheless, you're quite entertaining so you score some points here at least

#4137 jannyg

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 22:12

Interesting :|

http://www.racers-re...macher-quitting

#4138 F1Johnny

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 22:16

no smart guy, michael schumacher knows
you know, the guy that won it about 7 times and came close to winning around 3 more


MS needs to stop knowing about whether the car is a WDC or WCC contender and try and catch up with his far less experienced teammate. He won the WDC 6 years ago and was out for half that time. The game has changed - he is too slow now and not as sharp as he used to be and as happens as you get older, he can't keep it up (the speed that is) for an entire race.

If any other driver was moaning about the car and the front tyres, which everybody experienced for the first time this year, they would be drawn over the coals. He should do the right thing and bow out at the end of the year.

#4139 SeanValen

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 22:56

MS needs to stop knowing about whether the car is a WDC or WCC contender and try and catch up with his far less experienced teammate. He won the WDC 6 years ago and was out for half that time. The game has changed - he is too slow now and not as sharp as he used to be and as happens as you get older, he can't keep it up (the speed that is) for an entire race.

If any other driver was moaning about the car and the front tyres, which everybody experienced for the first time this year, they would be drawn over the coals. He should do the right thing and bow out at the end of the year.



He isn't moaning about the front tyres and car to the extent you make it out. But something had to be said on his side regarding why he isn't where he's expected to be.

When Kimi joined Ferrari, he wasn't the same qualifyer as before, and who knows how much Alonso lacked against Hamilton in 2007 when Alonso done a Bridgestone tyre season, he then spent 2 years back at Renault, even in those years where he won no title, he still got used to life without michelin. Schumacher on the otherhand has to beat his teamate, and it doesn't matter if he's been out of the sport for 3 years. a combination of factors, Alonso and those michelin guys who transfered to bridgestone after 2006 had testing to catch up as well, this is not the case fpr Schumi, more difficult, added to the fact the mercedes car seems to have a limited operating window, it's not a car born well, the team doesn't even understand it's characteristics at times this year, this don't help or aid a comeback.

I don't expect MS to improve this year to be where he was, but he's patient about playing the waiting game because he knows he's able to extract more, he found those solutions for this car at Spain/Turkey/Monaco, but that hasn't continued consistently, but the fact he drived well there, is surely a sign of what can come, those were important races, but his reputation is such, every race must be to a high standard, that won't happen this year, because he's coming back into f1, new team, new things, etc etc After next year and the year after, we'll see how your post measures up, save it. Good things come to those who wait. When he has a car he's happy with and starts to falter, we'll see it and know it, this is not the year. Alot of people are not as patient as him, and this is the most unusual year of f1 for him, but he's prepared to isit it out and endure the pain of a catch up of a sport where his name is cemented in history. A 8th title will happen, watch the forum, a man with the retirement he has, a reputation he has, wont' leave the sport without being on top, even Button said it.

Button was written off years ago, got a title. Webber was written off years ago, but is doing well this year. Alot of drivers have changed their perceptions with the public with the aid of a car they've enjoyed for a specific year, because Schumacher has accomplished more, there's a easy party to fall into here, and that is to write him off, like Button and Webber, and those guys haven't even scatched the surface of what MS has done. So it's silly jump to conclusions after 1 year, everyone is going to have a time frame on MS's improvement, 1 race, half a season, or some wise folk said it'll take least a year, and I think it will, a combination of factors have made this year the most difficult MS has faced, the same fools who writ him off after 2005 when the ferrari car wasn't there, were eating their socks when he was challenging for the title again in 2006, so how many times can the same fans get it wrong on MS? Just wait and watch beyond this year,.

Edited by SeanValen, 03 August 2010 - 23:04.


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#4140 F1Johnny

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 23:44

He isn't moaning about the front tyres and car to the extent you make it out. But something had to be said on his side regarding why he isn't where he's expected to be.

When Kimi joined Ferrari, he wasn't the same qualifyer as before, and who knows how much Alonso lacked against Hamilton in 2007 when Alonso done a Bridgestone tyre season, he then spent 2 years back at Renault, even in those years where he won no title, he still got used to life without michelin. Schumacher on the otherhand has to beat his teamate, and it doesn't matter if he's been out of the sport for 3 years. a combination of factors, Alonso and those michelin guys who transfered to bridgestone after 2006 had testing to catch up as well, this is not the case fpr Schumi, more difficult, added to the fact the mercedes car seems to have a limited operating window, it's not a car born well, the team doesn't even understand it's characteristics at times this year, this don't help or aid a comeback.

I don't expect MS to improve this year to be where he was, but he's patient about playing the waiting game because he knows he's able to extract more, he found those solutions for this car at Spain/Turkey/Monaco, but that hasn't continued consistently, but the fact he drived well there, is surely a sign of what can come, those were important races, but his reputation is such, every race must be to a high standard, that won't happen this year, because he's coming back into f1, new team, new things, etc etc After next year and the year after, we'll see how your post measures up, save it. Good things come to those who wait. When he has a car he's happy with and starts to falter, we'll see it and know it, this is not the year. Alot of people are not as patient as him, and this is the most unusual year of f1 for him, but he's prepared to isit it out and endure the pain of a catch up of a sport where his name is cemented in history. A 8th title will happen, watch the forum, a man with the retirement he has, a reputation he has, wont' leave the sport without being on top, even Button said it.

Button was written off years ago, got a title. Webber was written off years ago, but is doing well this year. Alot of drivers have changed their perceptions with the public with the aid of a car they've enjoyed for a specific year, because Schumacher has accomplished more, there's a easy party to fall into here, and that is to write him off, like Button and Webber, and those guys haven't even scatched the surface of what MS has done. So it's silly jump to conclusions after 1 year, everyone is going to have a time frame on MS's improvement, 1 race, half a season, or some wise folk said it'll take least a year, and I think it will, a combination of factors have made this year the most difficult MS has faced, the same fools who writ him off after 2005 when the ferrari car wasn't there, were eating their socks when he was challenging for the title again in 2006, so how many times can the same fans get it wrong on MS? Just wait and watch beyond this year,.


This is F1, things move too fast. I can't see how the board of MGP can really wait past this year. What I don't get also is the acceptance of him having to come up to speed, the car is not to his liking, new team, new things. It's a new team for Nico too. Those just can't be excuses, those are considerations that one needs to take in weighing whether or not you take him on.

I agree that his legacy would give him a leg up and they were blinded by his achievements and the board made a mistake. MS should take the high road, see out the year and stop.

#4141 SeanValen

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 00:45

This is F1, things move too fast. I can't see how the board of MGP can really wait past this year. What I don't get also is the acceptance of him having to come up to speed, the car is not to his liking, new team, new things. It's a new team for Nico too. Those just can't be excuses, those are considerations that one needs to take in weighing whether or not you take him on.

I agree that his legacy would give him a leg up and they were blinded by his achievements and the board made a mistake. MS should take the high road, see out the year and stop.




I also appreciate the fact Brawn, Norbert Haug and MS himself know more the problems this year then their willing to admit on paper anytime soon. MS won't leave until he and the team have gotten the best out of themselfs. Like it or not MS hasn't been the reason Mercedes havent got a title this year or been challenging for it, Rosberg doesn't have the car to go for wins, somethings take more time then usual, a 7 times champion has been out for 3 years, he's not just any driver, but one of the best of all time, and Mercedes who have been out of f1 for more then 50 years can't come in straight away and get the prize especially since the team it's taken over/Brawn won the 2009 title and never concentrated enough for 2010. . Let MS have his 3 year contract, and if he hasn't done well after then, then it's time to go.


Think back to Spain/Turkey/Monaco 2010, that was the MS potential, and it will be extracted again, it's why MS is so chilled out for the future. Seeing is believing though, until people see MS challenging for wins and titles, it's not easy to believe until then, so just wait and see.

#4142 baddog

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 00:49

This is F1, things move too fast. I can't see how the board of MGP can really wait past this year.

Not everyone is infected with the gnat-like attention span of the internet ouvre. Who cancels what was always a 3 year project after 6 months because they havent achieved their aims for the whole project, or even because it has started rather badly?

#4143 F1Johnny

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 00:50

I also appreciate the fact Brawn, Norbert Haug and MS himself know more the problems this year then their willing to admit on paper anytime soon. MS won't leave until he and the team have gotten the best out of themselfs. Like it or not MS hasn't been the reason Mercedes havent got a title this year or been challenging for it, Rosberg doesn't have the car to go for wins, somethings take more time then usual, a 7 times champion has been out for 3 years, he's not just any driver, but one of the best of all time, and Mercedes who have been out of f1 for more then 50 years can't come in straight away and get the prize especially since the team it's taken over/Brawn won the 2009 title and never concentrated enough for 2010. . Let MS have his 3 year contract, and if he hasn't done well after then, then it's time to go.


Think back to Spain/Turkey/Monaco 2010, that was the MS potential, and it will be extracted again, it's why MS is so chilled out for the future. Seeing is believing though, until people see MS challenging for wins and titles, it's not easy to believe until then, so just wait and see.


I doubt that we will see him next year unless he shows something in the remaining races. I think they should put Nick in the car for 2-3 of the remaining races to do a comparison. They can't just hang on the 7 times champion tag to justify keeping him there.

I don't like him but rate him as one of the most complete drivers ever in F1, but the move on Rubens and his lagging so far behind Nico is very telling.

#4144 Sakae

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 01:25

Watching Top Gear, testing Enzo model Ferrari on some airport tracks. The driver goes, oh mummy, oh, this is the top benchmark, and difference between this one and it's competitors is like between MS and D Coulghart. Ouch, David must have been pleased over that.

#4145 SeanValen

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 02:04

I doubt that we will see him next year unless he shows something in the remaining races. I think they should put Nick in the car for 2-3 of the remaining races to do a comparison. They can't just hang on the 7 times champion tag to justify keeping him there.

I don't like him but rate him as one of the most complete drivers ever in F1, but the move on Rubens and his lagging so far behind Nico is very telling.



Stop comparing with him Rosberg this year, there's no point, the car is made for Jenson Button, the same Button who is traling Hamilton, the same button who was written off years ago, the same button is current chamoion, the same button who gets beaten by Schumi in race of champions, the same Button who was behind Schumacher at Spain this year, saying after, Schumacher is clever, the same button who knows Michael will stay until he is a winner.

NICK Heidfeld with no testing, straight into a car no testing, racing is the testing. Effectively Michael is in a bettter position to pounce next year having already been postioned in the team. Were not talking about 7 times tag neither. There is no testing this year, ferrari have struggled to match redbull, everyone has, how the car is born pretty much sums the year up, the current car of mercedes was not born for Schumi, and Schumi is a different world to button's driving style, and I'm sure the lack of chassic updates and parts taking ages to happen, and then tested in the races hasn't helped things this year for Mercedes, if your car is not born well, it's pretty much useless it seems with the current regulations.

I remember Williams turning a stone in 2003 at Monaco, and then having a real winner, this year we've seen ferrari who are great in development/mclaren just struggle once a car is born well-redbull, and who would of put webber for wins and possible title chance this year? It's f1, don't rule anything out especially Schumacher once his aggressive oversteer lively rear end is a consistent part of car, and maybe the pirrelli tyres will get back the old MS. We've seen so many times regulations and certain rules doing good things for certain drivers/teams, all these guys need to do is sit and wait, your telling me Jenson Button should of quit, Nigel Mansell certainly thought Button's chances were over a while ago. Jenson Button is a good example of why alot of the drivers on the grid can do well, and MS has a list of things this year going against him, that don't need to be the same next year, we've seen it time and time again.

Edited by SeanValen, 04 August 2010 - 02:16.


#4146 F1Johnny

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 02:22

Stop comparing with him Rosberg this year, there's no point, the car is made for Jenson Button, the same Button who is traling Hamilton, the same button who was written off years ago, the same button is current chamoion, the same button who gets beaten by Schumi in race of champions, the same Button who was behind Schumacher at Spain this year, saying after, Schumacher is clever, the same button who knows Michael will stay until he is a winner.

NICK Heidfeld with no testing, straight into a car no testing, racing is the testing. Effectively Michael is in a bettter position to pounce next year having already been postioned in the team. Were not talking about 7 times tag neither. There is no testing this year, ferrari have struggled to match redbull, everyone has, how the car is born pretty much sums the year up, the current car of mercedes was not born for Schumi, and Schumi is a different world to button's driving style, and I'm sure the lack of chassic updates and parts taking ages to happen, and then tested in the races hasn't helped things this year for Mercedes, if your car is not born well, it's pretty much useless it seems with the current regulations.

I remember Williams turning a stone in 2003 at Monaco, and then having a real winner, this year we've seen ferrari who are great in development/mclaren just struggle once a car is born well-redbull, and who would of put webber for wins and possible title chance this year? It's f1, don't rule anything out especially Schumacher once his aggressive oversteer lively rear end is a consistent part of car, and maybe the pirrelli tyres will get back the old MS. We've seen so many times regulations and certain rules doing good things for certain drivers/teams, all these guys need to do is sit and wait, your telling me Jenson Button should of quit, Nigel Mansell certainly thought Button's chances were over a while ago. Jenson Button is a good example of why alot of the drivers on the grid can do well, and MS has a list of things this year going against him, that don't need to be the same next year, we've seen it time and time again.


Interesting that all of a sudden your teammate is no longer a benchmark. Then who or what is? Based on what you are saying MS is his only benchmark. Well something needs calibrating cuz the other guy driving the same car designed for Button (not for Nico) is beating MS real easy.


#4147 Birelman

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 04:15

Interesting that all of a sudden your teammate is no longer a benchmark. Then who or what is? Based on what you are saying MS is his only benchmark. Well something needs calibrating cuz the other guy driving the same car designed for Button (not for Nico) is beating MS real easy.

Not only is the teammate no longer a benchmark, also, the car's characteristics being built for someone else all of the sudden are a valid reason to be slower. What ever happened to "a good driver adapts" and the fact that HE ALWAYS DROVE CARS SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED FOR HIM WHICH HIS TEAMMATES HAD TO DEAL WITH AND HE IN PARTICULAR HAS A VERY UNIQUE DRIVING STYLE WHICH IS A NIGHTMARE TO DRIVE FOR ANYONE ELSE, but I guess he's immune to that?

Edited by Birelman, 04 August 2010 - 04:16.


#4148 man

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 04:20

Stop comparing with him Rosberg this year, there's no point, the car is made for Jenson Button, the same Button who is traling Hamilton, the same button who was written off years ago, the same button is current chamoion, the same button who gets beaten by Schumi in race of champions, the same Button who was behind Schumacher at Spain this year, saying after, Schumacher is clever, the same button who knows Michael will stay until he is a winner.

NICK Heidfeld with no testing, straight into a car no testing, racing is the testing. Effectively Michael is in a bettter position to pounce next year having already been postioned in the team. Were not talking about 7 times tag neither. There is no testing this year, ferrari have struggled to match redbull, everyone has, how the car is born pretty much sums the year up, the current car of mercedes was not born for Schumi, and Schumi is a different world to button's driving style, and I'm sure the lack of chassic updates and parts taking ages to happen, and then tested in the races hasn't helped things this year for Mercedes, if your car is not born well, it's pretty much useless it seems with the current regulations.

I remember Williams turning a stone in 2003 at Monaco, and then having a real winner, this year we've seen ferrari who are great in development/mclaren just struggle once a car is born well-redbull, and who would of put webber for wins and possible title chance this year? It's f1, don't rule anything out especially Schumacher once his aggressive oversteer lively rear end is a consistent part of car, and maybe the pirrelli tyres will get back the old MS. We've seen so many times regulations and certain rules doing good things for certain drivers/teams, all these guys need to do is sit and wait, your telling me Jenson Button should of quit, Nigel Mansell certainly thought Button's chances were over a while ago. Jenson Button is a good example of why alot of the drivers on the grid can do well, and MS has a list of things this year going against him, that don't need to be the same next year, we've seen it time and time again.


Hehe...don't compare M Schumacher to Rosberg? Who should we compare him next to...Mother Theresa? Rene Arnoux? Olivier Grouillard? F1 is all about being compared with your teammate...every driver past and present will tell you the first objective is to beat your teammate. There have been no signs of improvement from your man in 2010 and he has been comprehensively thrashed by Rosberg. 2011 if he still has a drive will be the same story regardless of the competitiveness of the car...and if anything I see the thrashing getting even more ugly than what it is already. Mark my words, while many were predicting wins and and a world championship for him this season, I predicted he would be beaten soundly by Rosberg and he would be a mid-field tail-end driver. ;-) Thank me later and save your hopes for something a little more realistic. :-)


#4149 jimm

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 04:23

Not only is the teammate no longer a benchmark, also, the car's characteristics being built for someone else all of the sudden are a valid reason to be slower. What ever happened to "a good driver adapts" and the fact that HE ALWAYS DROVE CARS SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED FOR HIM WHICH HIS TEAMMATES HAD TO DEAL WITH AND HE IN PARTICULAR HAS A VERY UNIQUE DRIVING STYLE WHICH IS A NIGHTMARE TO DRIVE FOR ANYONE ELSE, but I guess he's immune to that?



The current situation really does put the rabid MS fans in a quandry. Either they admit that thier hero is not getting it done or they have to blame the car/tires not suiting him admitting that 1) MS cannot infact drive around every problem while being 1 sec a lap faster than everyone else in the same car that they have claimed for years and/or 2) the fact the development work was centered around him actually might have effected his teammate's ability to compete with him in the same team/car validating what some of his detractors have said for years...IE MS never took teammates on even footing.

#4150 Birelman

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 04:28

The current situation really does put the rabid MS fans in a quandry. Either they admit that thier hero is not getting it done or they have to blame the car/tires not suiting him admitting that 1) MS cannot infact drive around every problem while being 1 sec a lap faster than everyone else in the same car that they have claimed for years and/or 2) the fact the development work was centered around him actually might have effected his teammate's ability to compete with him in the same team/car validating what some of his detractors have said for years...IE MS never took teammates on even footing.

I'm here eating popcorn waiting for one of them to read your message and reply to it! LOL :rotfl: