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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#401 Muz Bee

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 19:48

To summarize: Reading this and other active threads I came to the conclusion that Schumacher is guilty for everything which happened in the last 15 years and which [put you name here ...................] don't like. It is also not necessary for [put you name here ...................] to have witnessed all the events. Reading forum folklore is enough to have an unbreakable POV. :drunk: :wave:

:up: Yep - a timely reminder not to spend too long reading crap by posters who only watch a race through the eye of a fan of one driver and writes the race story to suit their own desired outcome. Balance - what? Now I know we are on a Michael thread but can't we wait until MGP supply their drivers a car which is competitive with the front runners before deciding on Michael's and Nico's personal performances. I don't like Michael personally but I don't see 3 years away having taken all that much off his former skill level. He is only a tenth or so away from Nico who cannot yet be discarded as a challenger for the front position.

Michael has enough times in his earlier career been bottled up behind slower cars for large parts of a race. His GP yesterday was very much compromised and he still scored a point so it's all still to be revealed. I would still expect a podium at some point in the year but probably not on car merit - unless MGP make a very big step - the car is very ordinary.

Regards the turn one confusion - it was typical AGP turn 1 action. The cars squeeze up, the cars touch, the pits get busy while the SC is on the track. How anyone can blame one driver for starting it reveals ignorance of the writer - it's a racing incident! :stoned:

And as for the TV Director complaints... :blush: How pathetic - like "you didn't follow my driver" - "he was outside the top ten and not going anywhere fast" - "but he's a 7xWDC". The day TV follows someone because they are popular/famous, and not to paint the picture of the race, well I'm gone. Speaking of which (from this thread) I'm gone!

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#402 Raelene

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 20:06

Michael had the most overtakings on track yesterday - 8. That we didn't see most of them is because the TV director payed little attention to what's going on behind Alo-Ham-Web.



where did this information come from? Not questioning it, would just like to see the source.

#403 ivand911

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 20:09

This is one useful link. No BS there, it is the truth: http://www.fia.com/e...ace-history.pdf

#404 Hairpin

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 20:10

Algesuari did a good race. Schumi did ok.

#405 Augurk

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 20:10

Long text


Nice analysis, though you don't take into account that Alonso made a crucial pass on Alguersuari during the pitstops. Noone in their right minds can claim they know what would have happened if Alonso had become stuck behind him.

Schumacher made most overtakes this race, and lost a lot of time behind Alguersuari. It was impossible to pass him without a mistake from Jaime, as has been previously explained in this thread.

#406 ivand911

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 20:17

He(Alonso) pass in the box not only Jaime, but Liuzzi too. They for me was the biggest threat to his race. And the hardest to overtake.

Edited by ivand911, 29 March 2010 - 20:18.


#407 vidc

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 20:18

@robracer

alonso overtook 3 cars in first pit stop (faster tyres change) so he didn't have to overtake them on the track,while schumahcer stayed behind them and had to overtake them on track ,which was hard when all of them were on slick tyres...after that it was much easier for alonso to progress.don't need to mention that ferrari is better car than MGP
rosberg caught alonso because he was behind massa who was very slow,and rosby had fresh tires compared to alosno...but i hope you noticed how hamilton and webber were fading away from nico when all three of them had new tyres...he caught them when they caught slow kubica-massa-alonso group...so MGP is slowest of 4 teams...
maybe schumacher could have done better,but we can't expect "brasil 2006" schumacher right from the start,he needs time and just a little faster car then the one he's in now


#408 Sakae

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 20:18

Do we have more info on MS's car damage? Ross said during one interview that car had more damage on it.

I am therefore interpreting his remark as:

- more than just a nose-cone, probably suspension (bent or similar anomaly)
- since the impact Michael drove with it for balance of the race, which could explain some of his difficulties later on

#409 valachus

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 20:52

No offense mate but you can't read, at no point did I say the safety car gave him 16 places back. Also, you can't just ignore the fact that he was involved at the first corner incident because it was a major point of the race. Alonso was involved in the first corner incident too, so he dropped back and had to drive through the field along with Michael.

These are the facts of the race after the safety car pulled off:

On lap 5, the safety car pulled off and Alonso crossed the line in 18th place, 12.953 seconds behind Vettel. Michael crossed the line in 20th place, 13.958 seconds behind Vettel. The difference between them was 2 places and 1.005 seconds, so not alot between them.

On lap 8, Alonso made a pitstop, lasting 26.821 seconds. Michael also made a pitstop, lasting 29.619 seconds, 2.798 seconds slower than Alonsos.

On lap 29, Michael made another pitstop, lasting 24.412 seconds.

On lap 58, the race finished and Alonso crossed the line in 4th place, 16.304 seconds behind Button. Michael crossed the line in 10th place, 69.391 seconds behind Button. The difference between them was 6 places and 53.087 seconds, so quite alot between them.

If my calculations are correct, Michael loses 24.872 seconds to Alonso over the 54 laps of racing after you take away the one pitstop on lap 29 (24.412s), the 2.798s difference from his other pitstop on lap 8 and the 1.005s from the gap between them when the safety car pulls off.

53.087-
24.412-
02.798-
01.005
24.412

Add this time to Alonsos time interval on lap 58 (16.304s) and this would be Michaels time interval to race winner Button if you don't count his extra pitstop from lap 29, as well as the time differences from the pitstops on lap 8 and the interval on the restart from Alonso.

24.412+
16.304
40.716

This new time interval would put him in 7th place, almost 11 seconds behind Hamilton.

Race classification after 58 laps
6th L Hamilton +29.898
(M Schumacher +40.716)
7th V Liuzzi +59.847

Why does he lose so much time compared to Alonso? Both had to come from the back and Alonso was fighting for a podium, but Michael doesn't even make the top 6, even when you don't count the time lost from an extra stop over Alonso and the gap behind Alonso at the restart. That isn't all from being behind Alguersuari that's for sure, he overtook him. Rosberg was right behind Alonso at the end so it can't be totally the car. He just didn't have the pace. He should have stayed in retirement instead of coming back with mediocre drives.

All those arithmetics and one definite conclusion for me: you need at least 3 to 5 more years of following the sport to just begin to understand it.


#410 ivand911

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 20:56

I am not sure Michael has any other damages. I know what Brawn said, but I think Jaime was enough. Michael drove 34 laps behind Jaime and 10 behind DLR. Liuzzi and DLR were with one stop only. Jaime did some very good laps even faster then frontrunners. He was constantly faster than Kubica ,Massa. Still Michael didn't pass him. Why ,any ideas ? :wave: Jaime was only fast, nothing special. :rotfl:

#411 JarnoA

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 21:12

Michael went from back to nowhere.

Fernando went from back to 4th.

Nuff said. MS is too old to overtake, Alonso isn't.

MS is too old, and too out of F1. It is like watching Mansell drive for Macca all over again.



#412 ivand911

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 21:17

Who did really Alonso overtake? Did you read this thread or not? I give file of the race history ,you can check there, if you know how to open it. And yes Alonso have better car now than Michael, very fair comparison. Will see him when he is 41. Why was Michael at the back, somebody can't drive and can't start properly? Old guy overtake him at the start.

Edited by ivand911, 29 March 2010 - 21:25.


#413 hansmann

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 21:27

Jaime did some very good laps even faster then frontrunners. He was constantly faster than Kubica ,Massa. Still Michael didn't pass him. Why ,any ideas ? :wave: Jaime was only fast, nothing special. :rotfl:


Towards the end of the race, Alonso was faster than Massa, Hamilton arguably faster than at least Massa, Webber was faster than all of them.
Neither could pass , and we know what happened when Webber tried a little to hard.

Overtaking on track is still a major issue, and MS didn't get anything the easy way, still made it from 20th to 10th, in a car that was possibly damaged and not a match for the Ferraris to begin with.
In his position, it also migt have made sense to do the extra pitstop, when the frontrunners seemed to have been happily running the 1 stopper, and didn't have to think about strategy any longer.

For an old man in a not quite supreme car, he's doing pretty good, I'd say, and depending on who you ask, he was in slightly better shape at this weekend than Nico overall.

Alonso blocked him in Q3, which seems to be an established fact by now, and without a doubt ruined Michaels brilliant start with his massive driving error .

#414 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 22:04

Nuff said. MS is too old to overtake, Alonso isn't.

that;s why ms made 8 overtakings and alonso 5

:clap: not a very bright person, are you?

#415 weareracing

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 22:20

I was shot down by most when I suggested that MSC might give Nico the wake-up call to move to the next level, MSC would destroy "Brittany" was the majority opinion.
I would concede that the Mercedes is NOT a front runner in 2010, but still, 2-0 Nico! I Told you so :smoking:
Why put an unbeatable personal record on the line by coming back in 2010?
Alguesuari and Glock may have pointed to the folly of the MSC comeback in Melbourne, quick Nick to be racing before the year-end?
Come on Michael, Status Quo showed us that the come-back career NEVER matches the origina!l

#416 One

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 22:24

I assume that the answer is because MSC was unbeatable. Nico is doing fine at this moent and I do think that his form will stay longer.

Yet MSC has his own agenda and I do think that we might see him back on podium sooner. So this is the reason. We all think that he will...

#417 Jay

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 22:24

His name is "Britney" ;)

And yes, it is 2 - 0...

J

Edited by Jay, 29 March 2010 - 22:24.


#418 Yellowmc

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 22:25

F1 at the top level anyway, is far more competitive now than when Schumacher left.

Many of the drivers have shown the same level of racecraft that Schumacher showed on many occasions.

#419 Muz Bee

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 22:30

His name is "Britney" ;)


??? :confused: :confused: :confused:
Sorry - have I missed something?


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#420 h_nair47

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 22:51

No offense mate but you can't read, at no point did I say the safety car gave him 16 places back. Also, you can't just ignore the fact that he was involved at the first corner incident because it was a major point of the race. Alonso was involved in the first corner incident too, so he dropped back and had to drive through the field along with Michael.

These are the facts of the race after the safety car pulled off:

On lap 5, the safety car pulled off and Alonso crossed the line in 18th place, 12.953 seconds behind Vettel. Michael crossed the line in 20th place, 13.958 seconds behind Vettel. The difference between them was 2 places and 1.005 seconds, so not alot between them.

On lap 8, Alonso made a pitstop, lasting 26.821 seconds. Michael also made a pitstop, lasting 29.619 seconds, 2.798 seconds slower than Alonsos.

On lap 29, Michael made another pitstop, lasting 24.412 seconds.

On lap 58, the race finished and Alonso crossed the line in 4th place, 16.304 seconds behind Button. Michael crossed the line in 10th place, 69.391 seconds behind Button. The difference between them was 6 places and 53.087 seconds, so quite alot between them.

If my calculations are correct, Michael loses 24.872 seconds to Alonso over the 54 laps of racing after you take away the one pitstop on lap 29 (24.412s), the 2.798s difference from his other pitstop on lap 8 and the 1.005s from the gap between them when the safety car pulls off.

53.087-
24.412-
02.798-
01.005
24.412

Add this time to Alonsos time interval on lap 58 (16.304s) and this would be Michaels time interval to race winner Button if you don't count his extra pitstop from lap 29, as well as the time differences from the pitstops on lap 8 and the interval on the restart from Alonso.

24.412+
16.304
40.716

This new time interval would put him in 7th place, almost 11 seconds behind Hamilton.

Race classification after 58 laps
6th L Hamilton +29.898
(M Schumacher +40.716)
7th V Liuzzi +59.847

Why does he lose so much time compared to Alonso? Both had to come from the back and Alonso was fighting for a podium, but Michael doesn't even make the top 6, even when you don't count the time lost from an extra stop over Alonso and the gap behind Alonso at the restart. That isn't all from being behind Alguersuari that's for sure, he overtook him. Rosberg was right behind Alonso at the end so it can't be totally the car. He just didn't have the pace. He should have stayed in retirement instead of coming back with mediocre drives.



Well perhaps Rosberg was just behind Alonso because he never went to the back of the grid?..you took all this time to write this post to come to this conclusion?

BTW Alonso caused the first corner incident..MS had nothing to do with it unless you wanted him to levitate his car out of the way.

Edited by h_nair47, 29 March 2010 - 22:52.


#421 Jay

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 22:55

??? :confused: :confused: :confused:
Sorry - have I missed something?


The poster "weareracing" above referred to Nico as Brittany... it's not Brittany, it's Britney, as in Britney Spears ;)

#422 MS7XWDC

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 23:00

But you remember that Alonso was at the back, Massa was already in front of Schumi. And Kubica was fourth and finished second(and Ferrari were not problem for him)? Michael have to be fourth in the end of the first lap. There is only one problem , MGP second stop. No point to think about it now. :) I know two other guys that a more unhappy with the season so far. :)


FA was not in P20
FA had fewer cars to overtake
FA went from P18 to P4
MS went from P20 to P10 with an extra stop

FA passed 13
MS passed 9

subtract the extra 35 second stop and MS would have finished 7th & passed 12

essentially, FA passed 1 more car than MS.

now, put MS back to 4th on lap 1 and he finishes right there with FA.

the extra stop & being at P20 did him in.

#423 snakeking1

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 23:07

7 WDCs are no myth .... :clap:

Posted Image

shame, he would have been 4th on lap one ....



Schumacher is alittle rusty and not surprisingly seems to have lost some of his sharpness.

Looking at this picture, if it was Schumacher of last time, he may be able to look at his rear view mirror and run wide to avoid Alonso hitting him when he possibly could sense Alonso spinning.

Anyway, even though overall race was frustrating for Schumi, I found his aggressiveness in defending on Lap One entertaining and exciting, abit like the old Schumi. With his front wing scrapping on the ground, he gone back to the racing line immediately on the track and made some aggressive blocking moves on the McLarens behind, he went the whole of lap one without losing any single position. Thats nice. :)

If Schumi was to hang on without changing nose cone until proper tire pitstop, (provided that the front wing does not fall off), well, I am pretty sure he would end up the race in a much better position, I am sure those behind would find that he is a handful to overtake, and he would be probably just around midfield by the time they changed to slicks, instead of at the tail end of the field.

Eventhough it was left too late in the race, but nice couple of moves in the last laps.

#424 man

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 23:19

As I said some time ago, the standard of drivers is a lot higher now than the M Schumacher glory years. Back in 1995 for instance the only drivers in competitive teams that he had to beat were Coulthard and Hill. As pleasant and professional as those two chaps are out of the cockpit, they really weren't in the same league as the likes of Hamilton, Alonsoand Vettel are today. Quite simply, the standard is a lot higher today. In some ways I admire him for his comeback, but as others have said, this has Mansell written all over it. The difference being, Nige would have done the business in 1994 and 1995 if he managed to get himself into shape. The standard of drivers was lower. M Schumacher is in shape but he hasn't done the business and I very much doubt he will. However, his talent is still worthy of a GP seat but don't expect him to be mixing it with the top guns of today because it merely boils down to them being better than him. Still, as long as M Schumacher plays fair and demonstrates a new sporting side to his personality, his return will be good for F1. Granted, he isn't as good as the top guys but he is a 40 something that has ambition and wants a challenge...thats a good thing, let the man enjoy his racing.

#425 MS7XWDC

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 23:37

Schumacher is alittle rusty and not surprisingly seems to have lost some of his sharpness.

Looking at this picture, if it was Schumacher of last time, he may be able to look at his rear view mirror and run wide to avoid Alonso hitting him when he possibly could sense Alonso spinning.


too funny .... considering MS already gave FA plenty of room


"he possibly could sense Alonso spinning."

did you see where FA wound up?

Posted Image

yea, MS really should have 'sensed' that FA would wind up there ...... backwards ..... :lol:

#426 SeanValen

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 23:47

Do we have more info on MS's car damage? Ross said during one interview that car had more damage on it.

I am therefore interpreting his remark as:

- more than just a nose-cone, probably suspension (bent or similar anomaly)
- since the impact Michael drove with it for balance of the race, which could explain some of his difficulties later on



From his websitte
Analysing qualifying I think both Nico and me could have been ranked two or three positions better," said Schumacher.

"I had a too conservative set-up in the end which was too much concentrated towards the race, plus I had a tear-off strip stuck in my front wing which too cost me some time. And going into the race from those better positions would have meant fighting for the podium.

"All that means that we are not too far away, and I am quite confident there will be more to come. So going to Malaysia we know that clearly we improved our pace since Bahrain, which is a good feeling.



#427 Menace

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 01:00

From his websitte
Analysing qualifying I think both Nico and me could have been ranked two or three positions better," said Schumacher.

"I had a too conservative set-up in the end which was too much concentrated towards the race, plus I had a tear-off strip stuck in my front wing which too cost me some time. And going into the race from those better positions would have meant fighting for the podium.

"All that means that we are not too far away, and I am quite confident there will be more to come. So going to Malaysia we know that clearly we improved our pace since Bahrain, which is a good feeling.


:up:

#428 DaleCooper

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 01:19

As I said some time ago, the standard of drivers is a lot higher now than the M Schumacher glory years. Back in 1995 for instance the only drivers in competitive teams that he had to beat were Coulthard and Hill. As pleasant and professional as those two chaps are out of the cockpit, they really weren't in the same league as the likes of Hamilton, Alonsoand Vettel are today. Quite simply, the standard is a lot higher today. In some ways I admire him for his comeback, but as others have said, this has Mansell written all over it. The difference being, Nige would have done the business in 1994 and 1995 if he managed to get himself into shape. The standard of drivers was lower. M Schumacher is in shape but he hasn't done the business and I very much doubt he will. However, his talent is still worthy of a GP seat but don't expect him to be mixing it with the top guns of today because it merely boils down to them being better than him. Still, as long as M Schumacher plays fair and demonstrates a new sporting side to his personality, his return will be good for F1. Granted, he isn't as good as the top guys but he is a 40 something that has ambition and wants a challenge...thats a good thing, let the man enjoy his racing.



You must be seeing something I am not because I have trouble understanding where all your conclusions come from. How is it you know, in any concrete way, that the "top guns of today" are better than him?

I also think that Nigel would have done the business in 1995, if he HAD A DECENT CAR. It had nothing to do with his shape. The McLaren was a joke and he wasn't going to trudge around mid-field. A demotivated Mansell would not have prevailed against Hakkinen.

So far, I am pleasantly surprised by his performances, even though I was hoping for more (that is the case for most fans I should think). But he has technical challenges to overcome, and racing wheel-to-wheel in F1 takes a bit of time to master again. But he is definitely coming along. He has now caught up to Rosberg, and I expect him to pull ahead in the next couple races (by a small margin).

For those that dwell on results only, well it's a bit hypocritical, don't you think?


Cooper

#429 Kenaltgr

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 01:22

MS needs to stop obsessing on Alonso, he should be more worried about Rosberg dominating him (who has yet to win a race).

#430 arknor

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 01:29

Yep - a timely reminder not to spend too long reading crap by posters who only watch a race through the eye of a fan of one driver and writes the race story to suit their own desired outcome.

on another forum i saw one guy bashing schumacher for beeing behind a virgin car for around 5 laps :rotfl:

had to remind him you arent allowed to overtake for position when behind a safety car, these baiters and trolls ignore all common sense and facts when posting..

i dont blame jaime for his aggresive defending schumachers dont exactly the same before that video shows just how easy it can be to block a much faster car even on a circuit thats good for overtaking (hill (wets) vs schumacher (drys) is one of the most exciting duels in modern formula one imo, pitty we didnt get to see more of jaime vs michael)

Edited by arknor, 30 March 2010 - 01:35.


#431 pablo_a

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 01:34

The poster "weareracing" above referred to Nico as Brittany... it's not Brittany, it's Britney, as in Britney Spears ;)


yeah, webber gave him the name at williams


#432 ivand911

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 07:16

Maybe in the end Michael needed this race, to go in overtaking mode(almost all race) . To see how is the car, what are the problems when overtaking, what can be improve. He will make bad race into positives for the car. As for the Rosberg, he was 8-9 in first corner, Michael was fourth. Don't see him coming close to the Michael in the race if there was not the crash. Kubica from fourth(first lap) finished second, one overtake from the win.

Edited by ivand911, 30 March 2010 - 07:17.


#433 monaco

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 08:13

Maybe in the end Michael needed this race, to go in overtaking mode(almost all race) . To see how is the car, what are the problems when overtaking, what can be improve. He will make bad race into positives for the car. As for the Rosberg, he was 8-9 in first corner, Michael was fourth. Don't see him coming close to the Michael in the race if there was not the crash. Kubica from fourth(first lap) finished second, one overtake from the win.


Good point about the unfortunate relegation of Michael to the back of the grid as a chance to see how the car can be managed to move closer to the front. Too bad the TV director did not give us too many opportunities to see his many overtaking moves while moving up to mid-grid. Michael himself saw this bad turn of events in a more positive light in his post-race analysis. Of course we would have wanted to have had a different race for him after he reached fourth place at the start of the race. But the season has just started, so hopefully, we will have that chance to see him in an excellent and successful race!





#434 pUs

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 08:16

MS needs to stop obsessing on Alonso, he should be more worried about Rosberg dominating him (who has yet to win a race).


You're the one being obsessed.

#435 BRK

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 08:56

I don't even know why people keep comparing Schumacher's race to that of the Ferrari. The Ferrari is the class of the field and gets its tyres up to temperature quicker than any other car,while the Mercedes W01 is one of the worst cars in this regard. The cars that Alonso passed after his pitstop had all made their own stops either on the same lap or a lap after him,and were struggling with getting heat into their cold tyres-the Ferrari obviously had less of a worry. Jumping a whole host of cars because you made one less stop than them,well done to Ferrari-not their driver.

The Mercedes on the other hand had similar worries to some of the other teams,and once the tyres were up to temperature he began passing cars. By the time this happened,however,he had lost way too much time stuck behind the slow moving chicanes. Dirty air played havoc with the tyre wear on the Merc and he had to pit early for a fresh set-bungled pitstop and he was back out on cold tyres behind the Toro Rosso,again. Rinse and repeat. Once he had his fresh set warmed up he began repassing the cars that had jumped him after his stop,all the while still losing time and grip massively to the front runners,stuck behind Alguersuari and co. And all this with damage on his car.

Seriously,if people need this sort of spoonfeeding to understand a race,they should probably switch to watching something that's far less taxing on the brain. Let alone posting on F1 forums. :well:

#436 RedBaron

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 09:11

Seriously,if people need this sort of spoonfeeding to understand a race,they should probably switch to watching something that's far less taxing on the brain. Let alone posting on F1 forums. :well:



Great sentence, that expression puts it perfectly. So tiresome having to explain each part of the race to people or having to read posts based on 2% facts because they have selective memory.

#437 robracer

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 09:20

All those arithmetics and one definite conclusion for me: you need at least 3 to 5 more years of following the sport to just begin to understand it.


I understand the sport perfectly well thank you, how long have you been following F1?

The point I was trying to make with the maths was that Michael wouldn't have had the pace to reach the podium, and that post was mainly aimed at MS7XWDC, who seems to think he would have had a podium.

#438 ivand911

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 09:36

If Kubica was having pace for second, I think Michael could managed some how? I mean before Button and Alonso ruin his race.

#439 black magic

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 09:42

look I have to admit at first take I was pretty disappointed with his effort but on reflection it wasnt so bad.

he was the only one overtaking anyone a thte end with all presumably on rotten tyres. lewis had demonstrated that he was way quicker than alonso but didnt even try a move. maybe michaels tyre swere also going off and yet he did get the the 2 at the end with no more relative performance difference than lewis.

what made a huge mess of his race was his pitwall and their calling of his stops. the first he ahd a golden chance to get out of sequence and yet made him wait for his new tyres, then just after he's clearing away from jaime they pull him in and give him the softs without a big enough lead to get them up to speed to defend the overtake from jaime.

as for brundle slagging him for going down the outside that has always been the safest part of turn 1 melbourne and where he has usually gone and managed to avoid many a previous first lap mayhem which has always started on the inside

what is brundles beef with schuey?

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#440 arknor

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 09:48

look I have to admit at first take I was pretty disappointed with his effort but on reflection it wasnt so bad.

he was the only one overtaking anyone a thte end with all presumably on rotten tyres. lewis had demonstrated that he was way quicker than alonso but didnt even try a move. maybe michaels tyre swere also going off and yet he did get the the 2 at the end with no more relative performance difference than lewis.

what made a huge mess of his race was his pitwall and their calling of his stops. the first he ahd a golden chance to get out of sequence and yet made him wait for his new tyres, then just after he's clearing away from jaime they pull him in and give him the softs without a big enough lead to get them up to speed to defend the overtake from jaime.

as for brundle slagging him for going down the outside that has always been the safest part of turn 1 melbourne and where he has usually gone and managed to avoid many a previous first lap mayhem which has always started on the inside

what is brundles beef with schuey?

they had a falling out over an interview afaik

#441 valachus

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 10:00

I understand the sport perfectly well thank you, how long have you been following F1?

The point I was trying to make with the maths was that Michael wouldn't have had the pace to reach the podium, and that post was mainly aimed at MS7XWDC, who seems to think he would have had a podium.



Think I started back in 85 or 86, how about you? Mind you, on other topics I've seen you complaining bitterly about the current aero rules, a conclusion with which I agree but find awkardly disonant with your conclusions that Schumacher was next-to-worthless for struggling to overtake Alguersuari in Melbourne. Button, for instance, looked similarly mediocre in midfield in Bahrain, yet once in front of a race he did pretty well, tyre management and all. Can you spot a pattern forming here?


#442 eoin

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 10:06

I don't even know why people keep comparing Schumacher's race to that of the Ferrari.


This. Alonso has said it's the best car he has driven while everyone knows that the Merc has handling problems AND pace problems. When you are trying to overtake someone that last thing you want is an understeering car as overtaking leads to more understeer.

#443 Sakae

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 12:05

A lot has been said about last race, and Norbert Haug merely re-inforces our trust that what we have seen on Sunday is not really representative of MS's skills, where he is, or where he will end up before he leaves again. It was an odd one. I am rather disappointed how very little attention is being paid to Alonso, and Button, because of of the issues during qualifying and in the race should have been at least scrutinized. Maybe I am bitter because Michael got shafted twice in the same weekend by the same guy, nevermind some snotty comments after the race Alonso allegedly said, but whatever is done is done, and it is not going to be reversed.

Next race!



#444 ivand911

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 12:28

From kai from planet-f1 forum:
"So in this post I am going to try to respond to the posts I have quoted, give my assessment of Melbourne and an assessment of Schumi's performance generally. I was at the race at Melbourne and I have also since watched a huge amount of onboards, and I feel the perception gained from what was seen on TV was vastly different to the actual situation.

First of all, Schumi's apparent happy facade is not a facade at all. He is genuinely happy and enjoying himself and having fun. I have spent 19 years studying his body language and he is relaxed and at ease. In previous years he has raced through the paddock avoiding all contact with people; this year he was waving and laughing and winking at people all over the place. I also spoke to him briefly and his eyes were sparkling in the way Schumi fans have gotten used to when he wins. Not the sign of a man trying to create an image.

The difference between Bahrain and Melbourne was absolutely night and day. Across the various sessions, Schumi regained that spark he is famous for, and he was attacking the corners, pushing on the exit and beautifully balancing his car through the apex with the brake and throttle. He also showed a lot of creativity with different lines. He was controlling the car and manipulating it much more at his will. This was demonstrated very clearly in FP3. At one point he was sideways through a corner having come across a car that had just come back on track due to an off and having to take evasive action and it barely disrupted the lap. I was open mouthed, as I have been many times throughout his career. He was evidently quicker and had more scope than Rosberg who was driving almost identically to what he did in Bahrain. To me, the progress Schumi has made says a lot about his adaptability, his access to his feel and sensitivity now, and also his ability to develop car setup, all of which made a huge difference this weekend.

When he queried Alonso straight after qualy, that was nothing like an "ear bashing". Qualy was nothing short a schemozzle and Schumi really copped the worst of it. On EVERY quick lap he suffered from traffic of either the new teams or drivers on in and out laps. His final lap in Q3 taken on hard tyres was on track to be his best and then had to be aborted because he came across Alonso on an inlap. He was checking to see if Alonso had been informed by the team that he was coming up on a quick lap, before asking the FIA for clarification - and not making a complaint, but clarification - on the situation with cars on track at different stages of qualifying. In this case, it was Schumi who was the one doing the right thing all the time - leaping out of people's way as soon as they got close - and it makes perfect sense that he wanted to know if he had it right or if he had it wrong. Had he not been so reasonable on track, he actually would have gotten himself into a better position to do a clean lap.

As for the race, as I understand it, there was practically nothing of him on screen. Had there been, viewers would have seen what I did, which was Alguesuari weaving in almost every braking zone and several overtaking attempts by Schumi that had to be aborted to avoid a collision with Alguesuari. Also, had there been, viewers would have seen Schumi playing around with different lines, exploring the track for different levels of grip and doing all that very impressively, simply thwarted by a driver who was driving outside the regulations. But for what Alguesuari was doing, I think the commentary in the media and perception would be vastly different: instead IMO people would be talking about Schumi being back. As steoc says in this thread, Schumi was pretty much the only driver to execute serious overtaking moves as a result of superior driving, rather than the driver in front making a mistake. Further, once he cleared Alguesuari, he basically dispensed with de la Rosa in a beautifully executed maneuver immediately that would have had the same impact with Alguesuari had Alguesuari not been driving as he was. Simply put, the result is not representative of what was demonstrated by Schumi.

Had the same happened in Bahrain I would have been worried about him making a mistake and certainly I wouldn't have expected him to get as close to Alguesuari as he did. Watching him this weekend, I got back my confidence that he can and will get back to the glorious Schumi we are used to seeing. He is not there yet, and I believe there is still progress to make, but I think he has gotten back the crucial ingredient - his feel - and will continually build on this. After Bahrain I couldn't have made this assessment because I didn't see that feel evident and I knew until he got that back we couldn't judge how the comeback would go. But now, I believe unquestionably that he will get there - mistakes and struggles in the interim but certainly he will get there.

So actually, I think he's doing remarkably well. He's been out of the sport for three years and in the space of a small amount of testing, with cars markedly different to what he drove previously, with one race under his belt he had the measure of his teammate in terms of pace over the weekend. That says A LOT about his progress. With respect to Australia, I am simply frustrated at the extent to which circumstances thwarted him."

"Everything I know about Schumacher indicates to me that he only "has fun" when he believes he is going to be competitive. So I interpret his "having fun" as "I know I can be competitive"."

Edited by ivand911, 30 March 2010 - 12:37.


#445 arknor

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 12:29

A lot has been said about last race, and Norbert Haug merely re-inforces our trust that what we have seen on Sunday is not really representative of MS's skills, where he is, or where he will end up before he leaves again. It was an odd one. I am rather disappointed how very little attention is being paid to Alonso, and Button, because of of the issues during qualifying and in the race should have been at least scrutinized. Maybe I am bitter because Michael got shafted twice in the same weekend by the same guy, nevermind some snotty comments after the race Alonso allegedly said, but whatever is done is done, and it is not going to be reversed.

Next race!

but its alonso so its allowed if it would have been schumacher slowing alonso's fast lap i can only imagine all the trolls suddenly descending in any topics about it, they are bad enough when schumacher has a not so bad race considering the circumstances

#446 Owen

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 12:32

From kai from planet-f1 forum:
"So in this post I am going to try to respond to the posts I have quoted, give my assessment of Melbourne and an assessment of Schumi's performance generally. I was at the race at Melbourne and I have also since watched a huge amount of onboards, and I feel the perception gained from what was seen on TV was vastly different to the actual situation.

First of all, Schumi's apparent happy facade is not a facade at all. He is genuinely happy and enjoying himself and having fun.

That is what comes across in his interviews. He doesn't appear to be so intense about things. He isn't taking himself quite so seriously. Which is good. Age has mellowed him. As it does us all.


#447 Sakae

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 13:06

From kai from planet-f1 forum:
"So in this post I am going to try to respond to the posts I have quoted, give my assessment of Melbourne and an assessment of Schumi's performance generally. I was at the race at Melbourne and I have also since watched a huge amount of onboards, and I feel the perception gained from what was seen on TV was vastly different to the actual situation.

First of all, Schumi's apparent happy facade is not a facade at all. He is genuinely happy and enjoying himself and having fun. I have spent 19 years studying his body language and he is relaxed and at ease. In previous years he has raced through the paddock avoiding all contact with people; this year he was waving and laughing and winking at people all over the place. I also spoke to him briefly and his eyes were sparkling in the way Schumi fans have gotten used to when he wins. Not the sign of a man trying to create an image.

The difference between Bahrain and Melbourne was absolutely night and day. Across the various sessions, Schumi regained that spark he is famous for, and he was attacking the corners, pushing on the exit and beautifully balancing his car through the apex with the brake and throttle. He also showed a lot of creativity with different lines. He was controlling the car and manipulating it much more at his will. This was demonstrated very clearly in FP3. At one point he was sideways through a corner having come across a car that had just come back on track due to an off and having to take evasive action and it barely disrupted the lap. I was open mouthed, as I have been many times throughout his career. He was evidently quicker and had more scope than Rosberg who was driving almost identically to what he did in Bahrain. To me, the progress Schumi has made says a lot about his adaptability, his access to his feel and sensitivity now, and also his ability to develop car setup, all of which made a huge difference this weekend.

When he queried Alonso straight after qualy, that was nothing like an "ear bashing". Qualy was nothing short a schemozzle and Schumi really copped the worst of it. On EVERY quick lap he suffered from traffic of either the new teams or drivers on in and out laps. His final lap in Q3 taken on hard tyres was on track to be his best and then had to be aborted because he came across Alonso on an inlap. He was checking to see if Alonso had been informed by the team that he was coming up on a quick lap, before asking the FIA for clarification - and not making a complaint, but clarification - on the situation with cars on track at different stages of qualifying. In this case, it was Schumi who was the one doing the right thing all the time - leaping out of people's way as soon as they got close - and it makes perfect sense that he wanted to know if he had it right or if he had it wrong. Had he not been so reasonable on track, he actually would have gotten himself into a better position to do a clean lap.

As for the race, as I understand it, there was practically nothing of him on screen. Had there been, viewers would have seen what I did, which was Alguesuari weaving in almost every braking zone and several overtaking attempts by Schumi that had to be aborted to avoid a collision with Alguesuari. Also, had there been, viewers would have seen Schumi playing around with different lines, exploring the track for different levels of grip and doing all that very impressively, simply thwarted by a driver who was driving outside the regulations. But for what Alguesuari was doing, I think the commentary in the media and perception would be vastly different: instead IMO people would be talking about Schumi being back. As steoc says in this thread, Schumi was pretty much the only driver to execute serious overtaking moves as a result of superior driving, rather than the driver in front making a mistake. Further, once he cleared Alguesuari, he basically dispensed with de la Rosa in a beautifully executed maneuver immediately that would have had the same impact with Alguesuari had Alguesuari not been driving as he was. Simply put, the result is not representative of what was demonstrated by Schumi.

Had the same happened in Bahrain I would have been worried about him making a mistake and certainly I wouldn't have expected him to get as close to Alguesuari as he did. Watching him this weekend, I got back my confidence that he can and will get back to the glorious Schumi we are used to seeing. He is not there yet, and I believe there is still progress to make, but I think he has gotten back the crucial ingredient - his feel - and will continually build on this. After Bahrain I couldn't have made this assessment because I didn't see that feel evident and I knew until he got that back we couldn't judge how the comeback would go. But now, I believe unquestionably that he will get there - mistakes and struggles in the interim but certainly he will get there.

So actually, I think he's doing remarkably well. He's been out of the sport for three years and in the space of a small amount of testing, with cars markedly different to what he drove previously, with one race under his belt he had the measure of his teammate in terms of pace over the weekend. That says A LOT about his progress. With respect to Australia, I am simply frustrated at the extent to which circumstances thwarted him."

"Everything I know about Schumacher indicates to me that he only "has fun" when he believes he is going to be competitive. So I interpret his "having fun" as "I know I can be competitive"."

Kind words from a fan. I am more or less on the same wavelength. On subject of exploration of different racing lines, we have seen it in Spain long time ago when he won a wet race. Thinking man. One can run out of superlatives when trying to describe his career.

#448 kar

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 13:23

I think Michael is going to give Barbie a hiding in Malaysia.

Michael has always been very good around Sepang.

#449 Owen

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 14:03

I think Michael is going to give Barbie a hiding in Malaysia.

Michael has always been very good around Sepang.

Barbie :lol:

#450 soca

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 14:33

From kai from planet-f1 forum:
"So in this post I am going to try to respond to the posts I have quoted, give my assessment of Melbourne and an assessment of Schumi's performance generally. I was at the race at Melbourne and I have also since watched a huge amount of onboards, and I feel the perception gained from what was seen on TV was vastly different to the actual situation.

First of all, Schumi's apparent happy facade is not a facade at all. He is genuinely happy and enjoying himself and having fun. I have spent 19 years studying his body language and he is relaxed and at ease. In previous years he has raced through the paddock avoiding all contact with people; this year he was waving and laughing and winking at people all over the place. I also spoke to him briefly and his eyes were sparkling in the way Schumi fans have gotten used to when he wins. Not the sign of a man trying to create an image.

The difference between Bahrain and Melbourne was absolutely night and day. Across the various sessions, Schumi regained that spark he is famous for, and he was attacking the corners, pushing on the exit and beautifully balancing his car through the apex with the brake and throttle. He also showed a lot of creativity with different lines. He was controlling the car and manipulating it much more at his will. This was demonstrated very clearly in FP3. At one point he was sideways through a corner having come across a car that had just come back on track due to an off and having to take evasive action and it barely disrupted the lap. I was open mouthed, as I have been many times throughout his career. He was evidently quicker and had more scope than Rosberg who was driving almost identically to what he did in Bahrain. To me, the progress Schumi has made says a lot about his adaptability, his access to his feel and sensitivity now, and also his ability to develop car setup, all of which made a huge difference this weekend.

When he queried Alonso straight after qualy, that was nothing like an "ear bashing". Qualy was nothing short a schemozzle and Schumi really copped the worst of it. On EVERY quick lap he suffered from traffic of either the new teams or drivers on in and out laps. His final lap in Q3 taken on hard tyres was on track to be his best and then had to be aborted because he came across Alonso on an inlap. He was checking to see if Alonso had been informed by the team that he was coming up on a quick lap, before asking the FIA for clarification - and not making a complaint, but clarification - on the situation with cars on track at different stages of qualifying. In this case, it was Schumi who was the one doing the right thing all the time - leaping out of people's way as soon as they got close - and it makes perfect sense that he wanted to know if he had it right or if he had it wrong. Had he not been so reasonable on track, he actually would have gotten himself into a better position to do a clean lap.

As for the race, as I understand it, there was practically nothing of him on screen. Had there been, viewers would have seen what I did, which was Alguesuari weaving in almost every braking zone and several overtaking attempts by Schumi that had to be aborted to avoid a collision with Alguesuari. Also, had there been, viewers would have seen Schumi playing around with different lines, exploring the track for different levels of grip and doing all that very impressively, simply thwarted by a driver who was driving outside the regulations. But for what Alguesuari was doing, I think the commentary in the media and perception would be vastly different: instead IMO people would be talking about Schumi being back. As steoc says in this thread, Schumi was pretty much the only driver to execute serious overtaking moves as a result of superior driving, rather than the driver in front making a mistake. Further, once he cleared Alguesuari, he basically dispensed with de la Rosa in a beautifully executed maneuver immediately that would have had the same impact with Alguesuari had Alguesuari not been driving as he was. Simply put, the result is not representative of what was demonstrated by Schumi.

Had the same happened in Bahrain I would have been worried about him making a mistake and certainly I wouldn't have expected him to get as close to Alguesuari as he did. Watching him this weekend, I got back my confidence that he can and will get back to the glorious Schumi we are used to seeing. He is not there yet, and I believe there is still progress to make, but I think he has gotten back the crucial ingredient - his feel - and will continually build on this. After Bahrain I couldn't have made this assessment because I didn't see that feel evident and I knew until he got that back we couldn't judge how the comeback would go. But now, I believe unquestionably that he will get there - mistakes and struggles in the interim but certainly he will get there.

So actually, I think he's doing remarkably well. He's been out of the sport for three years and in the space of a small amount of testing, with cars markedly different to what he drove previously, with one race under his belt he had the measure of his teammate in terms of pace over the weekend. That says A LOT about his progress. With respect to Australia, I am simply frustrated at the extent to which circumstances thwarted him."

"Everything I know about Schumacher indicates to me that he only "has fun" when he believes he is going to be competitive. So I interpret his "having fun" as "I know I can be competitive"."



thanks for this. im too lazy to search my post after fridays Free Practices where i also said that i saw SOME old Schumi already, already because i didnt expect it to see so early and to see that im not the only one who saw it is just simply great. im still disappointed that his qualy and race was ruined. Bring on Sepang! :clap: