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#4501 Big Block 8

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 07:55

That may be true to a large extent, the engineers surely know... a lot more than they would prepared to tell publicly, in any case they wouldn't come out with stuff to slag their current drivers, even if they had facts to support it. I know RB has come in support of MS and blamed the tyres, yet I'm not convinced, he's basically in the same position as Norbert Haug, long-time buddy of MS and instrumental in bringing him back.


I'm not sure if I understand what you mean, but there are a lot of people working in the engineering department addressing the problems according to the telemetry data - and if the team bosses official party line would consistently somehow be against the data, I don't know how long they would be able to keep the sham up. There are investors to report to, constant changes in personnel and also lot of internal competition inside the team, so the truth would eventually creep out. By constantly lying about such a thing the bosses would make a lot of people unhappy and it would in the end in a normal situation cause a lot of harm both inside and outside the team.

And even if we buy into this evil tyres theory, it's not really a valid excuse, not for a supposed star driver. They are supposed to adapt and get at least as much out of the equipment as the guy in the other car, even if they'd prefer equipment with different characteristics. In fact that's what we witnessed with Alonso in 2007, in all likelihood he would have prefered to stay on Michelins and be far more at ease, yet did he complain? Not really, all I remember is him saying that adapting to the Bridgestones is difficult and the main area to work on for him. That's what I'd expect, not "Oh, it's the tyres, they're shit, nothing to do about it than to wait for more suitable ones next season, maybe, hopefully." :well:


But isn't what Schumacher has said just the same that you remember Alonso has said? Surely MS has said "he's working on it", only with the exception that the tire supplier wasn't about to change in 2008, so Alonso couldn't say "hopefully the next year's new tires work for me better", which I'm sure Alonso too would have then said at some point?

Furthermore I'd be cautious with the expactations regards "star" drivers - there really isn't any way to determine what a driver "should" be able to do in a certain situation, because the cars, tires, teams and yardsticks constantly change and every season becomes a different situation. Except a blanket statement that the "stars" should prevail against their team mate regardless of the situation. This in turn I'm certain is false to begin with, as any star driver past or present would get beaten by a teammate considered "lesser" in a legitimately "equal" situation, if the cards that we can't see stacked up against them just right. That's the unfortunate nature of the current motorsport formulas.

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#4502 Lifew12

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 07:56

So you are also one of the guys here in this forum who dislike Schumacher so much that you are not objective.


No, I'm someone who loves F1 racing and finds the trials and tribulations of all drivers and teams interesting. I've explained it before - it doesn't matter to me who wins or who loses, who does well and who does not, what is the best or what is the worst, as what I am interested in is motor racing. I find Michael's struggles this year of interest as, in all honesty, I expected him to be much, much more competetive. I think that expectation to be perfectly acceptable as, after all, we're taling about Michael Schumacher here, not Sakon Yamamoto. It would be a much better place, for everyone, if people didn't automatically think that someone posting a view thst doesn't agree with theirs necessarily 'hates' the driver concerned. For me, that sort of attitude stayed behind in the school playground.

I don't buy the 'three years out' excuse for one simple reason - he's no longer been away for three years.

I do agree, however, that Rosberg is better this year. I wonder what your explanation will be when he's better next year, too?


#4503 Lifew12

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 07:58

Very little difference in car concepts over Clark's career


I'm pleased to see others have picked you up onthis somewhat erroneous comment; I'd say there was a lot of difference, and not just in concept, between the Lotus 49 and the Lotus Cortina.




#4504 as65p

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 08:24

I'm not sure if I understand what you mean, but there are a lot of people working in the engineering department addressing the problems according to the telemetry data - and if the team bosses official party line would consistently somehow be against the data, I don't know how long they would be able to keep the sham up. There are investors to report to, constant changes in personnel and also lot of internal competition inside the team, so the truth would eventually creep out. By constantly lying about such a thing the bosses would make a lot of people unhappy and it would in the end in a normal situation cause a lot of harm both inside and outside the team.


Let's just say I trust official team statements not as much as you seem to do, particularily not in difficult circumstances.

But isn't what Schumacher has said just the same that you remember Alonso has said? Surely MS has said "he's working on it", only with the exception that the tire supplier wasn't about to change in 2008, so Alonso couldn't say "hopefully the next year's new tires work for me better", which I'm sure Alonso too would have then said at some point?


To be fair I don't recall MS himself to complain too much abiut the tyres, I was referring more to Ross Brawns and the fans.

Furthermore I'd be cautious with the expactations regards "star" drivers - there really isn't any way to determine what a driver "should" be able to do in a certain situation, because the cars, tires, teams and yardsticks constantly change and every season becomes a different situation. Except a blanket statement that the "stars" should prevail against their team mate regardless of the situation. This in turn I'm certain is false to begin with, as any star driver past or present would get beaten by a teammate considered "lesser" in a legitimately "equal" situation, if the cards that we can't see stacked up against them just right. That's the unfortunate nature of the current motorsport formulas.


By "star" drivers I mean the very top, and to me those are defined, among other things, by being able to extract the max under any sort of circumstance, which MS (evident by Rosbergs better performance) isn't able to anymore. On it's own, I perfectly sympathize with a driver mourning unsuitable equipment, but that only goes so far. In the end the results count and if they aren't forthcoming, tough luck, time to move on. To give two different examples, I think both Montoya and Räikönnen are more talented than what they're final stats suggest, but in the only reality available they weren't able to exploit it fully, and that's that. Nothing anyone can do about it.

Same goes for MS v2, he isn't able to deliver the max with what's available, and pinning ones hope on completely uncertain tyre charateristics in 2011 sounds pretty desperate to me, at best it's a bet with not too brilliant odds.

#4505 Fortymark

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 08:32

I would challenge the notion that the ferrari cars were designed solely with michael in mind.

that the team was focused on him is not in question. note though that after todt came michael. the super team was built BECAUSE michael was also at ferrari - such had been the admiration that had developed amongst those at benetton where the car had not been necessarily the class of the field but certainly took it to senna and williams

however we saw with the 2000 - 2004 ferrari that thre would have been quick in anyones hand esp from 2001 onwards.

I believed that as the car improved so michaels teammates began to match him and even beat him on occassion. I have no problem with that.

the cars built esp for michael seemd more the benettons where the team were originally trying to overcome an engine deficiency in comparison to the wiliams and decided that by designning the car with michael in mind was their only chance.

look at when brundle climbed into the 2004 ferrari how driveable he found it. much the same difference we are seeing with the current red bull. note though michaels reputation was built BEFORE the domination of 2001 onwards

I accept tyour stance aas stated muz bee and perhpas I mistook your thrust.

sadly for herbert he simply wasnt the driver he had been before his big shunt


BS, the Benetton B194 was the car to have in 1994. Ross Brawn said so himself.
In 1995 the Benetton had the same engine as the Williams.

It´s a myth that Schumacher performed miracles in inferior cars.
For some strange reason, Schumachers cars are rated on a neglected #2 driver :rolleyes:
In all other years the cars performance is rated on the lead driver but when it comes to MS,
it´s based on his teammate :drunk:

You don´t have to look further than the Merc W01, is it a car which belongs among the FI and the Williams
(based on MS´s performance) or is it a car that is among the Renaults + Ferraris (based on Rosberg)??

Edited by Fortymark, 12 August 2010 - 08:34.


#4506 Big Block 8

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 08:34

I would challenge the notion that the ferrari cars were designed solely with michael in mind.


I'd say that's how the string of 96-06 cars eventually began with, but as the time passed they had optimized the baseline design pretty much as MS wanted it. Then more resources could be diverted to assist the #2 driver in his problems, provided of course that the introduced changes for the behalf of the #2 didn't at the same time make the car more difficult for MS.

The lap time differences have shrunk over the years, but even today we can see in GPs close to 1 sec/lap differences between teammates when the other one is "struggling", only to see the gap has vanished in the next GP - or the previously "struggling" guy can even be the faster one there. So still a lot of time left inside the little quirks within the package.

#4507 ivand911

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 08:53

BS, the Benetton B194 was the car to have in 1994. Ross Brawn said so himself.
In 1995 the Benetton had the same engine as the Williams.

It´s a myth that Schumacher performed miracles in inferior cars.
For some strange reason, Schumachers cars are rated on a neglected #2 driver :rolleyes:
In all other years the cars performance is rated on the lead driver but when it comes to MS,
it´s based on his teammate :drunk:

You don´t have to look further than the Merc W01, is it a car which belongs among the FI and the Williams
(based on MS´s performance) or is it a car that is among the Renaults + Ferraris (based on Rosberg)??

Ferrari is much better than Renault,Williams,Sauber,MGP and FI group. I put them here from best to worst. My opinion, R.,W. and S. a overall better cars than MGP.

Edited by ivand911, 12 August 2010 - 08:55.


#4508 Fortymark

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 09:04

Ferrari is much better than Renault,Williams,Sauber,MGP and FI group. I put them here from best to worst. My opinion, R.,W. and S. a overall better cars than MGP.


:confused:
You put Ferrari ahead of them all, it´s ok
But you put Renault, Williams and Sauber ahead of Mercedes??!! :drunk:
Based on what?

#4509 kenny

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 09:09

Ferrari is much better than Renault,Williams,Sauber,MGP and FI group. I put them here from best to worst. My opinion, R.,W. and S. a overall better cars than MGP.

In that case, Rosberg is seriously underrated...

#4510 man

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 09:19

:confused:
You put Ferrari ahead of them all, it´s ok
But you put Renault, Williams and Sauber ahead of Mercedes??!! :drunk:
Based on what?


Based on convenience in a laughable attempt to justify M Schumachers performances if history is anything to go by.

#4511 ivand911

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 11:13

:confused:
You put Ferrari ahead of them all, it´s ok
But you put Renault, Williams and Sauber ahead of Mercedes??!! :drunk:
Based on what?

Based on the results from last 2-3 races and results from now on. :) Nico is good driver, maybe underrated. FI want podium in Spa like last year. And they do good on low DF tracks. Williams have EBD and Fduct, working. Reno will have Fduct at Spa, also have EBD, working. Sauber are on MGP level without EBD(as I remember), have good Fduct(courtesy DLR/McLaren). Mercedes will never have good good Fduct(their mistake because low air inlet). All other teams don't have big design problem like MGP. Which I can't understand. How you can get tyres wrong? All teams receive the same data from Bridgestone and only MGP get it wrong(and from here everything is messed).

Edited by ivand911, 12 August 2010 - 11:51.


#4512 Lifew12

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 12:01

All other teams don't have big design problem like MGP.



I don't think MGP's 'design problem' is as big as you make out; at least Nico Rosberg isn't too bothered by it.


#4513 as65p

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 12:04

I don't think MGP's 'design problem' is as big as you make out; at least Nico Rosberg isn't too bothered by it.


It's such a shame with that pesky Rosberg guy. If he wasn't there we wouldn't hear the end of the MGP being the worst car in the field, and by some margin! :drunk:

#4514 ivand911

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 12:09

It's such a shame with that pesky Rosberg guy. If he wasn't there we wouldn't hear the end of the MGP being the worst car in the field, and by some margin! :drunk:

You think his goal in F1 is to fight for p.7 and p.4 for the team? Great achievement. :rotfl: Maybe if there wasn't such problem he and Michael can fight with first 3 teams and win some race.

Edited by ivand911, 12 August 2010 - 12:12.


#4515 Lifew12

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 12:13

You think his goal in F1 is to fight for p.7 and p.4 for the team? Great achievement. :rotfl:


It may not be be his goal and I doubt it is, but you're claiming the car has this 'big design problem' and yet he's had it on the podium. His team mate hasn't. Given that both like the same sort of car - apparently - ho can it be that Rosberg is OK and his team mate isn't?

#4516 ivand911

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 12:23

It may not be be his goal and I doubt it is, but you're claiming the car has this 'big design problem' and yet he's had it on the podium. His team mate hasn't. Given that both like the same sort of car - apparently - ho can it be that Rosberg is OK and his team mate isn't?

Did he get this podiums on merit? Don't see any more podiums for him with this RBR,Ferrari and McLaren form. But he could be lucky again and they all to have problems. Kubica also get podium in Australia, and if Button wasn't hitting peoples there, this podium was for Michael. Kubica was behind Button(who was behind Alonso and Michael) before first corner. I don't understand how you hit two people(Alonso and Michael) you destroy their races and you get win in the end? I think one drive thru was appropriate then.


#4517 man

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 12:27

It may not be be his goal and I doubt it is, but you're claiming the car has this 'big design problem' and yet he's had it on the podium. His team mate hasn't. Given that both like the same sort of car - apparently - ho can it be that Rosberg is OK and his team mate isn't?


No no no. What it is is that Rosberg that useless driver is stupidly trying to make the most of what he has while the design team switches focus onto 2011. M Schumqcher in the other hand would never be so foolish, no. M Schumacher instead of wasting time driving quickly takes a peice of paper and a pencil into the cockpit at each race weekend and while he circulates on the course, he is simultainiously designing a world beater for 2011- while in the cockpit.

#4518 ivand911

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 12:33

No no no. What it is is that Rosberg that useless driver is stupidly trying to make the most of what he has while the design team switches focus onto 2011. M Schumqcher in the other hand would never be so foolish, no. M Schumacher instead of wasting time driving quickly takes a peice of paper and a pencil into the cockpit at each race weekend and while he circulates on the course, he is simultainiously designing a world beater for 2011- while in the cockpit.

No no no. He use small computer for this with designing software, he send images on the move. This is why he miss corners some time.


#4519 frp

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 12:40

No, I'm someone who loves F1 racing and finds the trials and tribulations of all drivers and teams interesting. I've explained it before - it doesn't matter to me who wins or who loses, who does well and who does not, what is the best or what is the worst, as what I am interested in is motor racing.

:up:

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#4520 arknor

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 12:47

No no no. He use small computer for this with designing software, he send images on the move. This is why he miss corners some time.

did he ever miss a corner in a race? he went slightly wide a couple of times but so has everyone else.

in practice sessions he was always known for missing corners where he tried to find out where the limit was which everyone always saw as beeing smart but i guess your not to formula one or just trolling

#4521 Lifew12

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 12:51

Did he get this podiums on merit?


I would say very much so, especially malaysia where he qualified on the front row and was beaten only by the Red Bull pair; I can't think what else you would expect him to do in that situation. I agree, however, that he's not going to be picking up many more, but he'll certainly score a bag load more points.

#4522 cheapracer

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 12:51

No no no. What it is is that Rosberg that useless driver is stupidly trying to make the most of what he has while the design team switches focus onto 2011. M Schumqcher in the other hand would never be so foolish, no. M Schumacher instead of wasting time driving quickly takes a peice of paper and a pencil into the cockpit at each race weekend and while he circulates on the course, he is simultainiously designing a world beater for 2011- while in the cockpit.


While you're trying to be a clown I believe this is the first post you have posted in this thread that actually resembles the truth.


#4523 Lifew12

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 12:53

While you're trying to be a clown I believe this is the first post you have posted in this thread that actually resembles the truth.


I doubt it resembles the truth in any way at all; unless, that is, Michael has been planning for 2011 since the first race of the season.

#4524 flyer121

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 13:03

You say it yourself, it's an opinion.

And there it is, I state facts often with figures, examples and results against your self confessed opinion so you simply turn to the "your a fanboy" defense.

Feel free to start a Clark Fanboy thread hypocrite, I'll be there.


Facts hmm .. You sure , you want to have discussion based on facts?
We didnt have to dig too far - just look up 2010 stats , lap times and points etc.

But no - you choose to live in the past ... For you facts are 10% of all races won!!
Well I am surprised that its not 15% given he was in a car capable of lapping the entire field (-bar his teammate ) & had lapdog as a teammate 5 years in a row.


And you calling someone hypocrite because he stated, that it is his opinion, is the laughable part.
What do you think you are writing - God's Own Truth? You have been spouting your opinion all over for the last 10 pages ..

Now that's what I call Hypocrisy!

Edited by flyer121, 12 August 2010 - 13:50.


#4525 ivand911

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 13:09

I would say very much so, especially malaysia where he qualified on the front row and was beaten only by the Red Bull pair; I can't think what else you would expect him to do in that situation. I agree, however, that he's not going to be picking up many more, but he'll certainly score a bag load more points.

Malaysia he qualified there because of the rain, and McLaren's and Ferrari's started at the back. This help of course.


#4526 man

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 13:09

While you're trying to be a clown I believe this is the first post you have posted in this thread that actually resembles the truth.


So it takes a clown to understand exactly what M Schumacher is doing this year being out-classed, out-paced race after after race. I would check what they are mixing your bai jiu Mr lao wai. Your fantasy is becoming a bit alarming even for a clown ;-)

But come on opinions are for losers, we live in the present 2010 with factual information.

Rosberg = outscored M Schumacher by DOUBLE
Rosberg = outqualified M Schumacher by TRIPLE




#4527 Lifew12

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 13:19

Malaysia he qualified there because of the rain, and McLaren's and Ferrari's started at the back. This help of course.


of course it helped. He still had to do it, however.

#4528 merschu

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 13:27

This is a Michael Schumacher thread! Not a M.S vs Nico thread!

#4529 TURU

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 13:29

While you're trying to be a clown I believe this is the first post you have posted in this thread that actually resembles the truth.


Oh come on, do you really think that MSC is 'designing' his 2011 car ? :lol: If so, then I assume you have no connection with any type of engineering.  ;)

He is just slow. Much slower than his teammate in the same car. Tell me, how is it possible that Rosberg outscored and outpaced MSC so massively in such a crap ?? I know this is not a winning car, but it's not so bad and Rosberg shows that.

Maybe I should return to my old sig :p

#4530 TC3000

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 16:23

No, I'm someone who loves F1 racing and finds the trials and tribulations of all drivers and teams interesting. I've explained it before - it doesn't matter to me who wins or who loses, who does well and who does not, what is the best or what is the worst, as what I am interested in is motor racing. I find Michael's struggles this year of interest as, in all honesty, I expected him to be much, much more competetive. I think that expectation to be perfectly acceptable as, after all, we're taling about Michael Schumacher here, not Sakon Yamamoto. It would be a much better place, for everyone, if people didn't automatically think that someone posting a view thst doesn't agree with theirs necessarily 'hates' the driver concerned. For me, that sort of attitude stayed behind in the school playground.

I don't buy the 'three years out' excuse for one simple reason - he's no longer been away for three years.

I do agree, however, that Rosberg is better this year. I wonder what your explanation will be when he's better next year, too?



Hi Lifew12

I agree with what you say in general, and think it´s sensible.
But I would like you to explain this comment to me:

>>> I don't buy the 'three years out' excuse for one simple reason - he's no longer been away for three years. <<<

Do you think, that in any sport somebody can stop for 3 years, come back and be still at the top of their game? (without the possibility for training/testing)
That would rather surprise me.
Would it be resonable to think, that (as an example) Roger Federer stop playing tennis for 3 years, then come back only plays
10 matches (no training/testing) and goes on and wins a grand slam?

I don´t want to been seen as making excuses for M.S., it was more a question out of general interest.
I agree with you, that a lot of the "disapointment" among some people/fans has something to do with expecatations.
I did not expect him to come back and be immidately at the top again.
I understand that (some) people question his adaptability (or speed of) now, that´s a legitimate point IMO.
But to say three years away from the sport should not matter?
I don´t know, that would cast some serious doubts on the level of competition in F1. IMHO

Thanks





#4531 cheapracer

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 16:27

Facts hmm .. You sure , you want to have discussion based on facts?
We didnt have to dig too far - just look up 2010 stats , lap times and points etc.

But no - you choose to live in the past ... For you facts are 10% of all races won!!
Well I am surprised that its not 15% given he was in a car capable of lapping the entire field (-bar his teammate ) & had lapdog as a teammate 5 years in a row.


And you calling someone hypocrite because he stated, that it is his opinion, is the laughable part.
What do you think you are writing - God's Own Truth? You have been spouting your opinion all over for the last 10 pages ..

Now that's what I call Hypocrisy!


This thread is about MS as a whole not just 2010 where he is indeed being beaten by Rosberg, I've said that a large number of times, whats your point?

Your a very confused person, quote my non facts .... 10% won of all races ever is a fact including 2010, whats your problem with that?

No I'm stating he is a hypocrite because he calls me a fanboy then goes on to glorify Clark - that was clear in my post if you can't keep up because of your poor English thats your lookout, this is an English only forum and I'm not here to walk you through it.

So it takes a clown to understand exactly what M Schumacher is doing this year being out-classed, out-paced race after after race. I would check what they are mixing your bai jiu Mr lao wai. Your fantasy is becoming a bit alarming even for a clown ;-)

But come on opinions are for losers, we live in the present 2010 with factual information.

Rosberg = outscored M Schumacher by DOUBLE
Rosberg = outqualified M Schumacher by TRIPLE


You live in the present? That a joke Mate? - why have you posted so much about his past? You are one of the main protagonists here about his past, get a grip.

And err yeah, where have I disputed that exactly - please actually quote me .... I can quote a number of posts where people have totally forgotten Monaco, Spain and Turkey.

Anyone thinks I have fantasied about Michael Schumacher please feel free to quote it. And while your at it PLEASE someone provide evidence of some of the continually claimed "arrogant" title - I've been asking for 15 years.


#4532 man

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 16:30

Hi Lifew12

I agree with what you say in general, and think it´s sensible.
But I would like you to explain this comment to me:

>>> I don't buy the 'three years out' excuse for one simple reason - he's no longer been away for three years. <<<

Do you think, that in any sport somebody can stop for 3 years, come back and be still at the top of their game? (without the possibility for training/testing)
That would rather surprise me.
Would it be resonable to think, that (as an example) Roger Federer stop playing tennis for 3 years, then come back only plays
10 matches (no training/testing) and goes on and wins a grand slam?

I don´t want to been seen as making excuses for M.S., it was more a question out of general interest.
I agree with you, that a lot of the "disapointment" among some people/fans has something to do with expecatations.
I did not expect him to come back and be immidately at the top again.
I understand that (some) people question his adaptability (or speed of) now, that´s a legitimate point IMO.
But to say three years away from the sport should not matter?
I don´t know, that would cast some serious doubts on the level of competition in F1. IMHO

Thanks



He hasn't been away for 3 years though has he? In 2010 he has competed in 12 GP, 12 qualifying sessions, practice sessions and pre season testing. This 3 year business is old hat.

#4533 cheapracer

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 16:33

Oh come on, do you really think that MSC is 'designing' his 2011 car ?

:lol: If so, then I assume you have no connection with any type of engineering. ;)


So you are saying he has no substantial input into next years car?

:lol: If so, then I assume you have no connection with any type of engineering. ;)





#4534 cheapracer

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 16:39

He hasn't been away for 3 years though has he? In 2010 he has competed in 12 GP, 12 qualifying sessions, practice sessions and pre season testing. This 3 year business is old hat.


Well theres the logic that suits your agenda Mate.

What a waste of time this thread has become, I have never seen in any forum the continued energy to hate someone, what a complete life you guys must have :lol:


#4535 man

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 16:46

You live in the present? That a joke Mate? - why have you posted so much about his past? You are one of the main protagonists here about his past, get a grip.

And err yeah, where have I disputed that exactly - please actually quote me .... I can quote a number of posts where people have totally forgotten Monaco, Spain and Turkey.

Anyone thinks I have fantasied about Michael Schumacher please feel free to quote it. And while your at it PLEASE someone provide evidence of some of the continually claimed "arrogant" title - I've been asking for 15 years.


Excuse me as I filter through the drivel ;-)

The section highlighted in bold is the only aspect that I can be expected to reply to.

Evidence for the "arrogant" title?

Defintion:

1. Having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance.
2. Marked by or arising from a feeling or assumption of one's superiority toward others:

I would look no futher than the last Hungarian GP. His response when questioned about his decision to risk the life of a former teammate. No doubt, I wouldn't expect a fanatic of M Schumacher or somebody of your ilk to agree with me...but hey, thats what forums are for. ;-)



#4536 TC3000

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 16:47

He hasn't been away for 3 years though has he? In 2010 he has competed in 12 GP, 12 qualifying sessions, practice sessions and pre season testing. This 3 year business is old hat.


So what´s your point?
Who has driven more km in a F1 car in the last 3 years? N.R. or. M.S.
apart from the fact, that this post was adressed at LifeW12
start to see things in the correct context please. o.k.

#4537 cheapracer

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 16:52

Record Number
Championship titles 7 (1994, 1995, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004)
Consecutive titles 5 (2000–2004)
Race victories 91
Consecutive wins 7 (2004, Europe–Hungary)
Wins with one team 72 (Ferrari)
Wins at same GP 8 (France)
Wins at different GPs 22
Longest Time between first and last wins 14 years, 1 month and 2 days
Second places 43
Podiums (Top 3) 154
Consecutive podium finishes 19 (US 2001–Japan 2002)
Points finishes 197
Consecutive points finishes 24 (Hungary 2001–Malaysia 2003)
Laps leading 4741 (22,155 km)[157]
Pole positions 68
Front row starts 115
Fastest laps 76
Doubles (Pole and win) 40
Perfect Score (Pole, fastest lap and win) 22
Championship points 1,407
Most points in a season for a runner-up 121 (2006)
Most wins in a season for a runner-up 7 (2006)
Wins at Indianapolis (any racing class) 5
Wins at Monza (Formula One) 5
Wins in a season 13 (72%) (2004)
Fastest laps in a season 10 (2004)
Points scored in a season 148 (82% of Max available) (2004)
Podium finishes in a season 17 (100%) (2002)
Championship won with most races left 6 (2002)
Largest championship-winning margin 67 (2002)
Consecutive years with a win 15 (1992–2006)
Most races with 1 team 181 (Ferrari)
Consecutive days as champion 1813 (from 8 October 2000 until 25 September 2005)

Edited by cheapracer, 12 August 2010 - 16:56.


#4538 man

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 16:56

Record Number
Championship titles 7 (1994, 1995, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004)
Consecutive titles 5 (2000–2004)
Race victories 91
Consecutive wins 7 (2004, Europe–Hungary)
Wins with one team 72 (Ferrari)
Wins at same GP 8 (France)
Wins at different GPs 22
Longest Time between first and last wins 14 years, 1 month and 2 days
Second places 43
Podiums (Top 3) 154
Consecutive podium finishes 19 (US 2001–Japan 2002)
Points finishes 197
Consecutive points finishes 24 (Hungary 2001–Malaysia 2003)
Laps leading 4741 (22,155 km)[157]
Pole positions 68
Front row starts 115
Fastest laps 76
Doubles (Pole and win) 40
Perfect Score (Pole, fastest lap and win) 22
Championship points 1,407
Most points in a season for a runner-up 121 (2006)
Most wins in a season for a runner-up[4] 7 (2006)
Wins at Indianapolis (any racing class) 5
Wins at Monza (Formula One) 5
Wins in a season 13 (72%) (2004)
Fastest laps in a season[5] 10 (2004)
Points scored in a season 148 (82% of Max available) (2004)
Podium finishes in a season 17 (100%) (2002)
Championship won with most races left 6 (2002)
Largest championship-winning margin 67 (2002)
Consecutive years with a win 15 (1992–2006)
Most races with 1 team 181 (Ferrari)
Consecutive days as champion 1813 (from 8 October 2000 until 25 September 2005)


And Rosberg has beaten the man with those statistics in the same car by out qualifying him 10-3 and outscored him 94-38. Your point is?

#4539 man

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 17:01

So what´s your point?
Who has driven more km in a F1 car in the last 3 years? N.R. or. M.S.
apart from the fact, that this post was adressed at LifeW12
start to see things in the correct context please. o.k.


Excuse me for contributing on an open forum. :confused:

The point is as of today, the present, August 2010 (the 8th month of the year) M Schumacher has not been away for 3 years. If we keep harping on about this 3 year business, why stop at 3? Lets do the full monty and ask who has most experience over the last 10 years. Bit ridiculous isn't it?


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#4540 TC3000

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 17:23

Excuse me for contributing on an open forum. :confused:

The point is as of today, the present, August 2010 (the 8th month of the year) M Schumacher has not been away for 3 years. If we keep harping on about this 3 year business, why stop at 3? Lets do the full monty and ask who has most experience over the last 10 years. Bit ridiculous isn't it?


o.k. see your point - but we are not talking expirience here.
I still would be suprised to see any top athlete stop for 3 years come back and after 10 events (GP´s, matches, whatever) without any additonal training being at the top again.
Unless the competition in his sport is very very low.
That was my whole point, not more not less.
And M.S. has been away for 3 years no?

And you can contribute as much as you like to this open forum - no problem, but please keep things in the correct context,
and not just ripping out pieces of statements and forge them into your agenda.

Edited by TC3000, 12 August 2010 - 17:25.


#4541 man

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 18:03

o.k. see your point - but we are not talking expirience here.
I still would be suprised to see any top athlete stop for 3 years come back and after 10 events (GP´s, matches, whatever) without any additonal training being at the top again.
Unless the competition in his sport is very very low.
That was my whole point, not more not less.
And M.S. has been away for 3 years no?

And you can contribute as much as you like to this open forum - no problem, but please keep things in the correct context,
and not just ripping out pieces of statements and forge them into your agenda.


I don't think I have? :confused:

My answer remains the same. Your question would have been vaild in context the moment he first sat in the Mercedes GP car during pre-season testing. Since then, he has done 687 racing laps - not including pre-season testing, practice and qualifying. Motor racing as physical as it is, is not boxing, football or atheltics. A common viewpoint was that initially he would some testing and perhaps a race or two to get up to speed. The duration of time asked in order for him to adapt to the current nature of GP racing has constantly been extended from the aforementioned timespan to the situation we have now which is either 2011 or 2012 depending on who you ask. We haven't seen any real trend of significant improvement in relation to Rosberg despite the 687 +++ laps. I'm of the opinion he has had more than sufficient time to find himself.

I should add that I think the sport has changed while he has been away, not just in terms of regulations, but I believe the quality of opposition is significantly better than what he was used to and that is another reason for why his performances have been deemed as disappointing by many folk.

Not many depart their respected sports for three years and come back, they usually find other challenges in life. Lauda is the one that pops up...he retired in 1979 and came back in 1982 and won his third race back in very impressive fashion. He went on to win at Brands Hatch in 1982 too. But Lauda was Lauda I guess.

Edited by man, 12 August 2010 - 18:16.


#4542 Craven Morehead

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 18:33

Iirc, Lauda was 32 or33 at the time of his comeback.

#4543 britishtrident

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 18:49

My ancestors did not travel all this way to compare Grand Prix champions, this is comparetheschumachers.com. You may try to mock the greatest racing driver ever to tread on the planet, we have discovered why he is not wining every race, sabotage you englisher dogs have been beaming negative waves at our glorious hero, but our scientist have counter measures ready. When the season restarts his helmet will have a lining of 0.1mm rolled aluminium alloy to foil your beams. After consultation with the former head of the FIA we have also fitted a TASER device to the drivers seat in Rosberg's car unlike the more powerful TASER used by Ferrari this device is not cruel and it will be used only in training to make Rosberg good compliant Stepford team mate.

I TELL YOU STOP MAKING WITH THEM NEGATIVE WAVES !!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by britishtrident, 12 August 2010 - 18:52.


#4544 Birelman

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 20:00

Based on the results from last 2-3 races and results from now on. :) Nico is good driver, maybe underrated. FI want podium in Spa like last year. And they do good on low DF tracks. Williams have EBD and Fduct, working. Reno will have Fduct at Spa, also have EBD, working. Sauber are on MGP level without EBD(as I remember), have good Fduct(courtesy DLR/McLaren). Mercedes will never have good good Fduct(their mistake because low air inlet). All other teams don't have big design problem like MGP. Which I can't understand. How you can get tyres wrong? All teams receive the same data from Bridgestone and only MGP get it wrong(and from here everything is messed).

So, what you're saying is that, The True pace of the MGP is seen on Schumacher and Nico is driving above that? Sounds familiar, but, somehow different lol

#4545 TURU

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 20:09

So you are saying he has no substantial input into next years car?

:lol: If so, then I assume you have no connection with any type of engineering.;)


No, i'm not saying this.

The problem is that many people exaggerate importance of driver's input into development of a car. Especially You, Michael Schumacher's fans. No matter how great technical knowledge driver has, he is no engineer (i don't think you are going to tell me that he has any skills in higher maths, physics etc). Of course it is very useful, because he can understand behaviour of the car better and give his engineers more detailed and precise feedback. However It doesn't mean he can design anything. There are few hundred people(engineers) in the factory and this is their job to design a car. The driver can only say what characteristics of the car he prefers and then when the car is finished and on track he can give his team feedback on it.

But if you think that Schumacher is seating in the R&D department, discussing the design of next year's car or sketching front wing's endplates, then you are wrong. :D

Edited by TURU, 12 August 2010 - 20:13.


#4546 Birelman

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 20:23

No, i'm not saying this.

The problem is that many people exaggerate importance of driver's input into development of a car. Especially You, Michael Schumacher's fans. No matter how great technical knowledge driver has, he is no engineer (i don't think you are going to tell me that he has any skills in higher maths, physics etc). Of course it is very useful, because he can understand behaviour of the car better and give his engineers more detailed and precise feedback. However It doesn't mean he can design anything. There are few hundred people(engineers) in the factory and this is their job to design a car. The driver can only say what characteristics of the car he prefers and then when the car is finished and on track he can give his team feedback on it.

But if you think that Schumacher is seating in the R&D department, discussing the design of next year's car or sketching front wing's endplates, then you are wrong. :D

Oh, you mean Schumacher doesn't go into the MGP factory at night in his jockey shorts and builds a Formula 1 with his bare hands? OMG!!!!! NO!!!!!!!!! This can't be!!!!!!!!!!!

#4547 dav115

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 20:37

Iirc, Lauda was 32 or33 at the time of his comeback.

He was also publicly testing for McLaren at least a year before he came back.

#4548 Muz Bee

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 20:41

Well theres the logic that suits your agenda Mate.

What a waste of time this thread has become, I have never seen in any forum the continued energy to hate someone, what a complete life you guys must have :lol:

Anyone who doesn't agree with you is a hater or a hypocrite or a clown - to name 3 recent outbursts. This isn't an invasion of a fanclub forum as far as I am aware.

You talk about others living in the past but that's certainly the best place to live if you're a one-eyed fan of MS. That or live in hope of future glories - we will see.

#4549 chrisblades85

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 20:48

Liked the article in the in Autosport today. Although being beaten in quali and races, his ultimate pace through ou the weekend is under 3 tenths. Only Mark Webber, as Nico's teamate have done better.

Edited by chrisblades85, 12 August 2010 - 22:11.


#4550 TURU

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 20:50

Oh, you mean Schumacher doesn't go into the MGP factory at night in his jockey shorts and builds a Formula 1 with his bare hands? OMG!!!!! NO!!!!!!!!! This can't be!!!!!!!!!!!



Maybe it sounds ridiculous to you, but some blind fans seem to think that he really can more or less ( :drunk: ) do something like that. Some people will get disappointed in Bahrain 2011.