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#4651 pRy

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 12:56

Schumi: I am not in harmony with my car
http://www.yallaf1.c...ny-with-my-car/


Nico needs to make sure he isn't locked out of the development because from the comments Schumacher is making it sounds like he intends for the car to be moulded around his driving style.

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#4652 ivand911

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 13:04

Schumacher confident on 2011 chances
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/85983
"The teamwork, with the engineers and with Nico Rosberg is going very well. The car we currently have is almost a 'survivor' from last year, which had already been shaped, moulded and developed for us and we as drivers have had to make compromises accordingly."

#4653 Bleu

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 14:07

Paco forgot eight drivers who competed in 1996, no one who scored points in that year and actually three of them scored points in F1 career.

Giancarlo Fisichella
Ukyo Katayama
Pedro Lamy
Luca Badoer
Andrea Montermini
Tarso Marques
Ricardo Rosset
Giovanni Lavaggi

In general, that group of drivers put driver standards of 1996 down a little bit.

Of the current ones who have scored points, Alguersuari and Buemi haven't finished in top six. Buemi's best being seventh and Alguersuari's ninth. However, the general reliability is so much better nowadays that comparing positions isn't very sensible.







#4654 Johnrambo

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 14:20

Nico needs to make sure he isn't locked out of the development because from the comments Schumacher is making it sounds like he intends for the car to be moulded around his driving style.


Would Mercedes want to throw everything behind their overaged bad driver? :well:

#4655 MCh000

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 14:28

Rosberg said many times that his requirements for the car are surprisingly the same as Michael's, so you can sleep well.

#4656 wingwalker

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 14:29

Schumacher confident on 2011 chances
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/85983
"The teamwork, with the engineers and with Nico Rosberg is going very well. The car we currently have is almost a 'survivor' from last year, which had already been shaped, moulded and developed for us and we as drivers have had to make compromises accordingly."



Sounds to me like he got used to having a car build around him and now struggles to adapt.

#4657 aditya-now

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 15:13

I disagree with you completly . The current crop is much thicker at the top.....



What do we know about the current crop? We know that Alonso not onlly beat MS in a straight fight for the WDC but also took wins off MS in a car that was not close to a championship car compared to MS's champ wining machine in the same years. We know that Massa is comparing about the same to Alonso as he did against MS.

So I think it is safe to say that Alonso is around (don't get your panties in wad here just generally speaking) the level of MS in his last few yrs before retirement.

We also know that LH is at least as quick as Alonso..so there are 2 drivers on that level. Vettel has won a race in a freakn STR....when is the last time a guy from that level of team has won a race? and Webber has pretty much matched him this year (actually ahead). Button I would put on the Hill/JV level and he is slower in outright speed (although has talents that LH does not like calling his own race). Massa is probably at least at the same level as Button considering how he faired against Kimi and nearly took the title...and you have Kubica who is probably as at least as quick as Massa/button probably faster considering how he has run in a car that is clearly not on the same level (has he even missed Q3 this year?).

I think it is much thicker at the top. IMO, you had MS and Mika--pretty good gap---->Hill, JV, DC---->Berger->everyone else.

Now you have LH, Vettel, Alonso..Kubica? Webber?-very small gap-> Massa/Button--->bigger gap Nico-small gap->RB, MS everyone else.



Completely agree with your assessment, Jimm. We have an amazing starter field this year, no wonder Michael, despite having troubles with himself, finds it much harder to make a point this year. In hindsight 2010 will be probably regarded as dense and qualitative as 1985 - 1990.

Just my point of view.

#4658 Sakae

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 15:14

Sometimes it is less problematic to learn and manage new situation if you are unhindered by old techniques, such as Schumacher is experiencing. By way of example I am thinking of problems switching ice dancing skates and taking on hockey skates; must be awkward for a while.

He has obviously developed his driving craft around a car with certain characteristics, which his current car is lacking, so is he stating, I think; we all have underestimated initially that factor. I was one of them who thought that he would recover from the elements of change in first few races this year, but not so. Nico's adaptability to such vehicle is probably a lesser issue, as he has no Ferrari baggage from the old days on his back, and for now, he is controlling the vehicle more successfully than Michael is.

Next year is big unknown, but they have only one way to go, which is up. I sometimes wonder if these conditions (car drivability) had any influence on why JB decided to leave the team. It might have not, but, who knows?

Edited by Sakae, 16 August 2010 - 16:15.


#4659 flyer121

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 15:52

Sometimes it is less problematic to learn and manage new situation if you are unhindered by old techniques, such as Schumacher is experiencing. By way of example I am thinking of problems switching ice dancing skates and taking on hockey skates; must be awkward for a while.

He has obviously developed his driving craft around a car with certain characteristics, which his current car is lacking, so is he stating, I think; we all have underestimated initially that factor. I was one of them who thought that he would recover from the elements of change in first few races this year, but not so. Nico's adaptability to such vehicle is probably a lesser issue, as he has no Ferrari baggage from the old days on his back, and for now, he is controlling the vehicle more successfully than Michael is.

Next year is big unknown, but they have only one way to go, which is up. I sometimes I wonder if these conditions (car drivability) had any influence on why JB decided to leave the team. It might have not, but, who knows?


I wouldnt make that assumption without evidence..

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#4660 SparkPlug

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 17:42

Nico needs to make sure he isn't locked out of the development because from the comments Schumacher is making it sounds like he intends for the car to be moulded around his driving style.


Would Mercedes want to throw everything behind their overaged bad driver? :well:


Wow, this to me shows how scared the haters are of Schumacher :p
Inspite of having gone through a really mediocre season, his critics find it necessary to make excuses already for his potential upward curve in performance in 2011. I dont see it really, Rosberg will beat him next year as well IMO, even if Schumacher does improve. If he does beat NR, then my assessment (of Rosberg being an exceptional driver) will be proved wrong, and that MS really was taking a lot of time to adapt.

MS and Nico look for the same things in an F1 car. Nico has said it. Michael has said it. Ross has said it. Done to death and yet you guys say this ?

Laughable :rotfl:

Edited by SparkPlug, 16 August 2010 - 17:45.


#4661 jimm

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 17:58

Good laugh here. And if you change their cars you change your classification again? Suddenly RBR drivers are top drivers? How funny are this fans classifications. Nico and Michael not very good drivers because they drive crap car, if they drive RBR they will be top drivers. Suddenly Massa and Barichelo are faster than Michael? I would like to see him in this Ferrari and to speak after this. I would like to see your top drivers in MGP car, to see how good they are. Where was Button second half of the last year? Behind Rubens.

I will try to find result of this test:
http://www.yallaf1.c.....8YallaF1.com)
"Meanwhile, next Thursday and Friday, Rosberg will be testing world championship karts with a clutch of fellow F1 drivers.

Also to feature names including Fernando Alonso, Michael Schumacher and Jaime Alguersuari, the test will take place at the Lonato circuit near Brescia in northern Italy."
To see who is faster.



No...

I rate Vettel because of what he was able win in, at best mid field team..in actuallity a lower mid field team. A car that is probably no worse than the Merc that MS currently drives. Webber has run Vettel very close and been regularly nearly as fast or faster so he, by proxy, nudges himself up there. Kubica has repeatedly been slogging it out above the cars fighting wieght. Stark comparison to MS who clearly is not getting the potential out of the car as Nico leaves him for dead so regardless of what you think about the Merc not beging great, MS can't match Nico who was (since you want to bring up antient history) completely demonlished by Lewis before they got to F1.

As far as the Nico link, if this were a Kart championship, you might have a point but it is not. If that were an indication, then they would despence with the whole F2,F3 thing and just pluck these guys out of karts.

Finaly Button and RB were in a different position last year. JB had a lead to defend against increasingly fast compitition where RB was behind playin catch up and had less to loose.

Edited by jimm, 16 August 2010 - 17:58.


#4662 ivand911

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 18:57

No...

I rate Vettel because of what he was able win in, at best mid field team..in actuallity a lower mid field team. A car that is probably no worse than the Merc that MS currently drives. Webber has run Vettel very close and been regularly nearly as fast or faster so he, by proxy, nudges himself up there. Kubica has repeatedly been slogging it out above the cars fighting wieght. Stark comparison to MS who clearly is not getting the potential out of the car as Nico leaves him for dead so regardless of what you think about the Merc not beging great, MS can't match Nico who was (since you want to bring up antient history) completely demonlished by Lewis before they got to F1.

As far as the Nico link, if this were a Kart championship, you might have a point but it is not. If that were an indication, then they would despence with the whole F2,F3 thing and just pluck these guys out of karts.

Finaly Button and RB were in a different position last year. JB had a lead to defend against increasingly fast compitition where RB was behind playin catch up and had less to loose.

In Monza 2008 , STR wasn't lower mid field team with 1st and 4th position on the start. There rain help too. STR was better than RBR car. With your logic Fisichella with Spa 2009 where he almost win in FI is equal to Vettel? But where is he now? Yes, STR 2008 is better car than MGP car with balance, WD, working with tyres. And driving this year RBR car is very easy thing to do, anyone could look good driving it. And such car can unlock Michael potential? As you say Lewis maybe demolish Nico in something ,but after this is not F1, it is not important. Because in GP2 test at the start of the year Michael fast lap was only 0,4 from GP2 record. And I think if JB was in MGP ,Nico would beat him too. Because when there is car with problems, JB is not so good.


#4663 jimm

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 20:39

In Monza 2008 , STR wasn't lower mid field team with 1st and 4th position on the start. There rain help too. STR was better than RBR car. With your logic Fisichella with Spa 2009 where he almost win in FI is equal to Vettel? But where is he now? Yes, STR 2008 is better car than MGP car with balance, WD, working with tyres. And driving this year RBR car is very easy thing to do, anyone could look good driving it. And such car can unlock Michael potential? As you say Lewis maybe demolish Nico in something ,but after this is not F1, it is not important. Because in GP2 test at the start of the year Michael fast lap was only 0,4 from GP2 record. And I think if JB was in MGP ,Nico would beat him too. Because when there is car with problems, JB is not so good.


OK as long as we agree to dismiss non-F1 performance like your kart comparison I am OK with ignoring how ordinary Nico looked compared to Lewis.


Vettel actually looked a threat at other tracks other than Monza. Clearly, he had the STR in positions that Liuzzi et al never really looked close to, would you not agree? The Force India car was great at Spa last year...actually Fisi has been worth a drive like that every few years for a backmaker team. He just could not string them together in a good team for what ever reason.

Vettel has been quick in 3 different teams and looked the part since day 1. Same with Hamilton who had the task of taking down a 2x WDC as a rookie who had just won a head to head fight with MS. I would say that puts him on a pretty high level.

As for Button, I think he is a great tactical driver and he will not beat himself (a big atribute actually)......he lacks just that little turn of speed compared to the rest. I put him somewhere in the top 6-7 of current drivers as a total package.

But here is the thing and why I say it is more competitive....the same critisms you say of him could easly go for JV, Hill and DC which were the 3rd-5th (in no particular order) best drivers in F1 from '95-'02 or so. There was a big gap from Mika and MS to everyone else that did not start to close until 5-6 yrs ago. I will accept that Massa and Button are some where around the same level as JV, Hill and DC (moving them down a bit from my first ranking)....but I think there are at least 4-5 drivers better than them at the moment making it much thicker at the top.

Edited by jimm, 16 August 2010 - 20:41.


#4664 robefc

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 21:00

Even then, the disparity between teams has gotten ridiculously small on the grid. That 1/10th.. 1/100th can mean the different between being a hero or loser. It was just a few seasons ago that the top 10 was spread out by seconds.. not 1/10ths of a second. Once again, it's takes a different type of driver today then maybe even 10 years ago to pull out that 1/10...

It may be easier to win a race now then before as the difference between TEAMS is so much less that on any given Sunday... 4-6 drivers have a chance at winning (barring rain, safety cars etc.) where as a decaded ago.. perhaps only 2-4 drivers stood a realistic chance of winning.


I would say it was therefore much easier to win a race a decade ago, as long as you were one of those 2-4 drivers, because there was less competition.
Although I would also argue that the top car in F1 is closer to seconds rather than 1/100ths of a second faster than the rest at the moment...

Edited by robefc, 16 August 2010 - 21:01.


#4665 man

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 21:41

regarding quality of the current bunch:

The racist Scott, Jackie Stewart:

Stewart said some of the difficulty for Schumacher is the depth of quality drivers in the field this season. "Outside the main teams you've got drivers as good and as experienced as Rubens Barrichello and Robert Kubica. It's the best group of top drivers that I can remember."

Another racist, Martin Brundle:

He says he has recharged his batteries; I hope he pops a couple more long-life ones in his pocket because he’ll need them. I wouldn’t bet against him winning races or even a championship but he’s going to have to pedal very hard. Alonso won the final two championships Schumacher contested and he’s even stronger now.

Hamilton has established himself as a superstar, while Massa is an altogether better package than when he was Schumacher’s understudy. Button has come of age, while Sebastian Vettel is hailed as the “new Schumacher”. These rivals present a huge challenge for a 41-year-old, even a seven-time world champion.

Schumacher says competition within the sport has always been strong but he has never faced this depth of quality. Will he be able to compete at this level?


Also...a quote from M Schumacher after completing 100 laps during pre season testing:


Q: You could always measure the quality of your cars. What are you feeling about the MGP W01?
MS: I am fully convinced that we have a car that is able to fight for the championship.




#4666 Birelman

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 21:50

In Monza 2008 , STR wasn't lower mid field team with 1st and 4th position on the start. There rain help too. STR was better than RBR car. With your logic Fisichella with Spa 2009 where he almost win in FI is equal to Vettel? But where is he now? Yes, STR 2008 is better car than MGP car with balance, WD, working with tyres. And driving this year RBR car is very easy thing to do, anyone could look good driving it. And such car can unlock Michael potential? As you say Lewis maybe demolish Nico in something ,but after this is not F1, it is not important. Because in GP2 test at the start of the year Michael fast lap was only 0,4 from GP2 record. And I think if JB was in MGP ,Nico would beat him too. Because when there is car with problems, JB is not so good.

Funny how you dismiss Vettel's win in an STR! Yet, you never dismiss any of Schumacher's performances that were ALL in top 2 machinery, with the rare exception of rare wins in top 3 stuff where the package suited or circumstances allowed for the rare wins with a bit of brilliance. Still, all better than what STR was in 2008 comparatively.

Edited by Birelman, 16 August 2010 - 21:51.


#4667 Birelman

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 21:52

regarding quality of the current bunch:

The racist Scott, Jackie Stewart:

Stewart said some of the difficulty for Schumacher is the depth of quality drivers in the field this season. "Outside the main teams you've got drivers as good and as experienced as Rubens Barrichello and Robert Kubica. It's the best group of top drivers that I can remember."

Another racist, Martin Brundle:

He says he has recharged his batteries; I hope he pops a couple more long-life ones in his pocket because he’ll need them. I wouldn’t bet against him winning races or even a championship but he’s going to have to pedal very hard. Alonso won the final two championships Schumacher contested and he’s even stronger now.

Hamilton has established himself as a superstar, while Massa is an altogether better package than when he was Schumacher’s understudy. Button has come of age, while Sebastian Vettel is hailed as the “new Schumacher”. These rivals present a huge challenge for a 41-year-old, even a seven-time world champion.

Schumacher says competition within the sport has always been strong but he has never faced this depth of quality. Will he be able to compete at this level?


Also...a quote from M Schumacher after completing 100 laps during pre season testing:


Q: You could always measure the quality of your cars. What are you feeling about the MGP W01?
MS: I am fully convinced that we have a car that is able to fight for the championship.


I think the walls of reality are crashing down in Schumiland :)

#4668 rog

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 21:53

Now you have LH, Vettel, Alonso..Kubica? Webber?-very small gap-> Massa/Button--->bigger gap Nico-small gap->RB, MS everyone else.



You made my day. Massa in a much faster car (who was behind Nico in WDC till last race) according to you much better than Nico, nice rating. How much slower is Nico to Vettel or Webber? 1 second or 2 seconds per lap? Looks like Nico is still an underrated driver, nothing has changed.

#4669 Birelman

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 21:57

You made my day. Massa in a much faster car (who was behind Nico in WDC till last race) according to you much better than Nico, nice rating. How much slower is Nico to Vettel or Webber? 1 second or 2 seconds per lap? Looks like Nico is still an underrated driver, nothing has changed.

1, 2 seconds? lol what is this, the Bush league?

The difference between these drivers is not quantifyable. It's small, very small, to say the least. To try to speculate on the quantifyable ammount of speed difference stupid, to say the least.

#4670 rog

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 22:08

1, 2 seconds? lol what is this, the Bush league?

The difference between these drivers is not quantifyable. It's small, very small, to say the least. To try to speculate on the quantifyable ammount of speed difference stupid, to say the least.



A "bigger gap" suggests a big time difference as well. Let's say a tenth or two isn't really a big difference. Alonso or Hamilton are often 2-3 tenths faster to their teammate named Button und Massa. And even Massa and Button have a "bigger gap" to Nico in his list. According to jimms logic it should be at least half a second. But maybe he is thinking 1 second or two seconds, I asked him.

Edited by rog, 16 August 2010 - 22:09.


#4671 Birelman

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 22:30

A "bigger gap" suggests a big time difference as well. Let's say a tenth or two isn't really a big difference. Alonso or Hamilton are often 2-3 tenths faster to their teammate named Button und Massa. And even Massa and Button have a "bigger gap" to Nico in his list. According to jimms logic it should be at least half a second. But maybe he is thinking 1 second or two seconds, I asked him.

It's not quantifiable, and suggesting it is, suggests to me little knowledge of the sport. 2 tenths is a lifetime in the F1 world (in ANY racing world actually), it's not small. No, there can't be a 1 second gap over another excellent driver in equal conditions, there could be for 1 session, but not a constant speed advantage that can be quantifiable as you're trying to suggest. With enough training, you could even lap within 1.5 of these guys.

#4672 rog

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 22:40

It's not quantifiable, and suggesting it is, suggests to me little knowledge of the sport. 2 tenths is a lifetime in the F1 world (in ANY racing world actually), it's not small. No, there can't be a 1 second gap over another excellent driver in equal conditions, there could be for 1 session, but not a constant speed advantage that can be quantifiable as you're trying to suggest. With enough training, you could even lap within 1.5 of these guys.


I'm not asked you, I'm asking jimm what he thinks. He made the list not you. 2 tenths is a small gap according him, so it must be a much bigger difference. With a second to Rosberg - Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel could fight for the championship even with the MGP01 this year! :eek:

#4673 jimm

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 02:21

I'm not asked you, I'm asking jimm what he thinks. He made the list not you. 2 tenths is a small gap according him, so it must be a much bigger difference. With a second to Rosberg - Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel could fight for the championship even with the MGP01 this year! :eek:



Don't think I ever quantified anything. Absolute quantified time to time comparisons don't work really because there is a difference between a lap time done a few times and a lap time done every lap. For example, MS can on occasion this year do a lap faster than Nico, but on average, Nico is faster.

Used to grade exams as a grad student and there are natural breaks between groupings of the best to next level etc all the way down to the worst. While I did not quantify it 1-2 tenths is, in fact, a small difference averaged over a season...even over a single lap. on a 10 corner track, that is 1-2 hundredths/corner...not really much difference but enough to have a seperation especially at this level. Nico (you must be a fan..or trying to justify MS's poor form trying to make him the new Jim Clark) being around ..4-5 sec/lap during a race per lap is not out of the question as he is not as fast in the race as he is in qualifying. He has always fallen off in as the race goes on....Could be fitness or how he likes his car which does not adapt to the track. Could be he is a bit like Trulli who has a narrow comfort zone in how he likes his car.

I will say this, I don't agree with 1 sec but I think Alonso or Hamilton would have a shot at a win in the Merc at some point during the year. Regardless, Nico is for sure NOT better than they are...so add him to the list of top drivers if it makes you feel better....only adds to my opinioin that there are more quality drivers at the top than during the 90s.

Edited by jimm, 17 August 2010 - 02:21.


#4674 baddog

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 03:44

No driver is 2 tenths or 5 tenths or whatever slower than another. Thats the kind of shorthand comment that commentators love, but which doesnt really mean anything. A driver will be better in some of many ways, more precise on braking, more subtle on the throttle, more able to feel some aspect of the handling etc etc etc, their teammate may be better in some but worse overall.. but to try to add all that up to '2 tenths better' is just silly, as seen by the constant variation in performance between teammates across seasons, circuits and even sessions. Im sure Ive been guilty of it too, but it is nonsense.

Edited by baddog, 17 August 2010 - 03:45.


#4675 aditya-now

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 04:01

No driver is 2 tenths or 5 tenths or whatever slower than another. Thats the kind of shorthand comment that commentators love, but which doesnt really mean anything. A driver will be better in some of many ways, more precise on braking, more subtle on the throttle, more able to feel some aspect of the handling etc etc etc, their teammate may be better in some but worse overall.. but to try to add all that up to '2 tenths better' is just silly, as seen by the constant variation in performance between teammates across seasons, circuits and even sessions. Im sure Ive been guilty of it too, but it is nonsense.


I agree that it will be hard to add these factors up to a mathematical "2 tenths better" (or slower). Too small a time interval to be seriously measured as a constant difference between two drivers. But, as we have seen, and, as we are seeing, there are drivers that are 8 tenths or 1 second slower than another driver on a regular basis.

#4676 jimm

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 04:39

No driver is 2 tenths or 5 tenths or whatever slower than another. Thats the kind of shorthand comment that commentators love, but which doesnt really mean anything. A driver will be better in some of many ways, more precise on braking, more subtle on the throttle, more able to feel some aspect of the handling etc etc etc, their teammate may be better in some but worse overall.. but to try to add all that up to '2 tenths better' is just silly, as seen by the constant variation in performance between teammates across seasons, circuits and even sessions. Im sure Ive been guilty of it too, but it is nonsense.



To a large part I agree....especially considering that it will change from track to track depending on how the car/track suit the driver.

That said, you can spot trends over the many races. I did not quantify it but used his idea to make my arguement.

#4677 Fortymark

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 06:33

Also...a quote from M Schumacher after completing 100 laps during pre season testing:


Q: You could always measure the quality of your cars. What are you feeling about the MGP W01?
MS: I am fully convinced that we have a car that is able to fight for the championship.


Ouch!
Didn´t the whole MS-yahoo bunch claim that Nico was the one telling they had a championship
winning car while MS was more sceptical? :lol:


#4678 slaveceru

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 06:54

Sorry, I didn't read your point correctly last time. With all those factors involved, you have to ask what he's doing in f1, surely? OK, so he's over retirement now - or should be in any logocal view - and his car's not great, and next year he'll be aware of the rules, and know the team, although he may still not like the tyres, but his age, him, and the lack of testing are not going to go away, are they? It's a curious situation.

The situation is curious as you have stated but he still deserves the place in f1 grid. As he has told several times he likes to be challenged and he is facing the biggest challenge in his career.

Edited by slaveceru, 17 August 2010 - 06:58.


#4679 slaveceru

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 07:15

Ouch!
Didn´t the whole MS-yahoo bunch claim that Nico was the one telling they had a championship
winning car while MS was more sceptical? :lol:

Here is his last opinion from him about the car prior the Bahrain race.
Q: Michael, after this test the next stop is Bahrain. Are you satisfied with the car?
Michael Schumacher: Only the future will show if it’s a winner. We are working very hard and there is still a lot of work to do. I would not say that at the moment it is all going according to plan, but on the other hand I know that the car here in Barcelona is not the car that I will drive in Bahrain. There are still upgrades that are missing, so it is quite difficult to make a valid judgment of where we are.
As you can see he is so optimistic about the car. :rotfl:

MS: But in general, I would say that I don’t see any reason why we should not have a say on the championship.

He still has a hope about the performance of car as it is normal at this stage.

Edited by slaveceru, 17 August 2010 - 07:16.


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#4680 Lifew12

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:01

The situation is curious as you have stated but he still deserves the place in f1 grid. As he has told several times he likes to be challenged and he is facing the biggest challenge in his career.


I absolutely agree he deserves a place on the grid, and am happy to see him there. I don't pay his wages, though. I've no doubt Luca Badoer 'likes to be challenged', too.


#4681 ivand911

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:09

First I wasn't dismissing Vettel win in STR. I just point that the car wasn't so bad. Yes, other driver Bourdais did show such good results like Vettel. About MGP car, for me Nico is getting maximum from it. We never saw Lewis driving other F1 car than McLaren(from first day he was driving competitive cars). I don't think he could adapt better to MGP car than Nico. About Alonso he know how to drive not so good cars, like Nico ,then maybe he could be around his level. But, nobody could say 100% how Lewis and Alonso will do in MGP car. I would very like to see this. Because it is not working this way: I think they are better drivers than Nico ,then they will beat him with every car. This is not true. It is easy to be in Ferrari and McLaren worlds. About Michael he need to learn not only how to drive this new car, and also how to work in new "no test" conditions. Now they use simulators,CFD and other stuff he don't know much. In this area he will have problems to catch Nico. Not only cars and tyres changed in this 3 years. In Turkey they tell him we expect 2-3mm rain and he was : What!!!!!
And now 100 people will come here to say that even if Lewis go now in MGP he will destroy Nico. :rotfl:

Edited by ivand911, 17 August 2010 - 08:19.


#4682 Fortymark

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:16

Here is his last opinion from him about the car prior the Bahrain race.
Q: Michael, after this test the next stop is Bahrain. Are you satisfied with the car?
Michael Schumacher: Only the future will show if it’s a winner. We are working very hard and there is still a lot of work to do. I would not say that at the moment it is all going according to plan, but on the other hand I know that the car here in Barcelona is not the car that I will drive in Bahrain. There are still upgrades that are missing, so it is quite difficult to make a valid judgment of where we are.
As you can see he is so optimistic about the car. :rotfl:

MS: But in general, I would say that I don’t see any reason why we should not have a say on the championship. He still has a hope about the performance of car as it is normal at this stage.


Or you can also say he doesn´t know if the car is a winner or not. He thinks it´s a very good
car as he thinks he can challenge for the championship with it.

#4683 black magic

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:16

soory but that was michael diplomatic speech for the car is crap

take out the final line and he has expressed serious doubts.

look michael usually tells it how he genuinely sees it

I also dont have a admitting that this yrs grid is one of the stronngest from any generation. and the reliablity continues to slowly improve

7 wdc still stand as does numerous drives that shouldnt have been possible and has been pointed out endlessly that it is these drives that are actually responsible for the schumacher legend. 7 wdc are in effect the accolades and yet clearly at least 3 wdc would have gone to many other drivers in the 2001 - 2004 ferrari inclusive

but again it was the like sof spain 96 or china 2006, brazil 2006 that created the schumacher legend not his exploits 2004

#4684 slaveceru

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:28

Or you can also say he doesn´t know if the car is a winner or not. He thinks it´s a very good
car as he thinks he can challenge for the championship with it.

:rotfl:
Here is what Rosberg has said at the last training.
Q: Red Bull finished well ahead of everyone else. Is that a worry?
NR: No, not really. We can match the time and probably even go faster - that’s why it is nothing to get nervous about.
Q: There are two weeks until Bahrain. After three tests, who would you say were the strongest contenders?
NR: It is still impossible to say. The car will make a big step forward in Bahrain. It’ll be almost like a new car, so everything might be completely different once we are there. I would say we are in pretty good shape.
If you compare the answer from Schumacher and Rosberg at the last training you could see that Rosberg is more optimistic about the car and what could this car achieve.
So who was right about the performance of the car Schumacher or Rosberg?

Edited by slaveceru, 17 August 2010 - 08:29.


#4685 Fortymark

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:29

soory but that was michael diplomatic speech for the car is crap

take out the final line and he has expressed serious doubts.


I also dont have a admitting that this yrs grid is one of the stronngest from any generation. and the reliablity continues to slowly improve


That´s not the point, the point is that some here claimed that Rosberg was praising the car like hell
while MS was sceptical. Man proved the opposite and everybody can read for themselfes that Michael
thinks he can challenge for the championship with it.
It´s yet another myth that MS´s input or technical feedback is better than everyone elses, especially his
teammate Rosbergs.

You´re correct, this year we have a very strong lineup with many equal cars, engines and tires.
This is not 2002 or 2004 when Michael had the best car, engine, tires and #1 status.
This is a completly different ballgame.


#4686 Fortymark

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:39

:rotfl:
Here is what Rosberg has said at the last training.
Q: Red Bull finished well ahead of everyone else. Is that a worry?
NR: No, not really. We can match the time and probably even go faster - that’s why it is nothing to get nervous about.
Q: There are two weeks until Bahrain. After three tests, who would you say were the strongest contenders?
NR: It is still impossible to say. The car will make a big step forward in Bahrain. It’ll be almost like a new car, so everything might be completely different once we are there. I would say we are in pretty good shape.
If you compare the answer from Schumacher and Rosberg at the last training you could see that Rosberg is more optimistic about the car and what could this car achieve.
So who was right about the performance of the car Schumacher or Rosberg?



So we have in one corner Rosberg saying the car is "in pretty good shape" and "it´s impossible to say"
and "might be completly different" once they arrive in Bahrain

And then Schumacher whom says "Only the future will tell if it´s a winner or not" and "I don’t see any reason why we should not have a say on the championship"



#4687 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:47

Q: You could always measure the quality of your cars. What are you feeling about the MGP W01?
MS: I am fully convinced that we have a car that is able to fight for the championship.



Bearing in mind that this quote was in the first week of pre-season testing.....



.....but we'll ignore that fact shall we?

Here's what Schumacher said two weeks later, 27th February

Only the future will show if it’s a winner. We are working very hard and there is still a lot of work to do. I would not say that at the moment it is all going according to plan


Source: http://www.formula1....10/2/10474.html

Edited by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, 17 August 2010 - 08:52.


#4688 TURU

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:49

So we have in one corner Rosberg saying the car is "in pretty good shape" and "it´s impossible to say"
and "might be completly different" once they arrive in Bahrain

And then Schumacher whom says "Only the future will tell if it´s a winner or not" and "I don’t see any reason why we should not have a say on the championship"


To be honest, I would say that both of them said pretty the same thing. This second statement of Schumacher was just usual PR.

#4689 ivand911

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:51

And then Schumacher whom says "Only the future will tell if it´s a winner or not" and "I don’t see any reason why we should not have a say on the championship"

And they say: Bye-bye.
He didn't lie.

#4690 Fortymark

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:00

And they say: Bye-bye.
He didn't lie.


The point is that some here lied, Rosberg didn´t praise the car
like hell and thought it was a championship winner.
Schumacher wasn´t more sceptical than Rosberg..


#4691 slaveceru

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:05

That´s not the point, the point is that some here claimed that Rosberg was praising the car like hell
while MS was sceptical. Man proved the opposite and everybody can read for themselfes that Michael
thinks he can challenge for the championship with it.
It´s yet another myth that MS´s input or technical feedback is better than everyone elses, especially his
teammate Rosbergs.

:rotfl:

I will give you the interview with Alonso who was like Rosberg optimistic about the performance of the car but there is the difference what both drivers taught about RB performance.

Alonso:
"I think that someone showed his muscles, while we didn’t(he was thinking about RG performace),” said the Spaniard following Jerez. “We’ll see in Barcelona - when we’ll show up with the latest updates - where we are compared to the others. We can say that we’re on the right way.

“Over these two days on the dry I could drive many miles and I’m satisfied by the car’s performance and reliability. The F10 is growing very well and there’s nothing that should worry us. We worked on the long run today and the signs we got are really positive.”
Were in a interview of Schumacher do you find those words like in case of Alonso or Rosberg I can not find them.
Let see what Rosber taught about RB performance in last training and compare this to what Alonso has said about RB performance.

RB
Q: Red Bull finished well ahead of everyone else. Is that a worry?
NR: No, not really. We can match the time and probably even go faster - that’s why it is nothing to get nervous about.

Alonso:
"I think that someone showed his muscles, while we didn’t.
This is what Schumacher has said about RB performance.
Q: What are your thoughts on the pace of Red Bull?
MS: I just got out of my car, so excuse me if I’m not ready to give you a complete and detailed analysis of our competitors. We have not been as fast today as we would have liked to have been, but that is all I can say at the moment.


Once again who was right about the performance of this year car Rosberg or Schumacher?

Edited by slaveceru, 17 August 2010 - 09:12.


#4692 pRy

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:10

I would think Heidfeld being released by Mercedes GP suggests Schumacher isn't planning on leaving end of the year.

#4693 Lifew12

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:11

Once again who was right about the performance of this year car Rosberg or Schumacher?


Not quite sure what the Alonso interview has to do with anything; he drives for Ferrari. As for the above, both drivers expressed cautious optimism, as we can see. One says there is no reason they can't challenge for the title and that the car he tested won't be the one he races in Bahrain - all true - and the other says they are in pretty good shape. Neither says the car is an out and out winner, and neither says its crap.

It's worth remembering that Nico was new to the team, too.

#4694 Lifew12

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:12

I would think Heidfeld being released by Mercedes GP suggests Schumacher isn't planning on leaving end of the year.


I think it's more Nick having taken up a paid option rather than waiting around to see what happens as happened last year.

#4695 Fortymark

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:14

:rotfl:
Once again who was right about the performance abut this year car Rosberg or Schumacher?


:rolleyes:

Rosberg was more right than Schumacher, end of discussion.
Schumacher clearly says he believes he has the car to
have a say on the championship..

But for the last time, the point isn´t whom had the best prediction.
It´s about some here lying about that Rosberg was upbeat and praising
the car while Schumacher was sceptical and didn´t share Rosbergs positive
feedback. It was all a lie.


#4696 Fortymark

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:16

Not quite sure what the Alonso interview has to do with anything; he drives for Ferrari. As for the above, both drivers expressed cautious optimism, as we can see. One says there is no reason they can't challenge for the title and that the car he tested won't be the one he races in Bahrain - all true - and the other says they are in pretty good shape. Neither says the car is an out and out winner, and neither says its crap.

It's worth remembering that Nico was new to the team, too.


:up:
I had no idea either..

#4697 slaveceru

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:18

Not quite sure what the Alonso interview has to do with anything; he drives for Ferrari. As for the above, both drivers expressed cautious optimism, as we can see. One says there is no reason they can't challenge for the title and that the car he tested won't be the one he races in Bahrain - all true - and the other says they are in pretty good shape. Neither says the car is an out and out winner, and neither says its crap.

It's worth remembering that Nico was new to the team, too.


I have given Alonso interview as an example what driver says about the car when he fills that it is a good car but I agree no one knows if it will be quick enough to compete for WDC and the felling about the car performance on the track is most important in training.
What strike me what all three drivers has thought about the performance of RB in training and there was major difference between Rosberg and the other two drivers.

#4698 aditya-now

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:21

That´s not the point, the point is that some here claimed that Rosberg was praising the car like hell
while MS was sceptical. Man proved the opposite and everybody can read for themselfes that Michael
thinks he can challenge for the championship with it.
It´s yet another myth that MS´s input or technical feedback is better than everyone elses, especially his
teammate Rosbergs.


If Michael´s input were so much better than anyone elses it´s a miracle he hasn´t done something about it. Well, in fact he can´t even reproduce in 2010 what he did in 1996 - clearly it´s not the same Schumacher anymore. The tiger still has his stripes (see Hungary) but he has lost his power and spirit.


#4699 rog

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:24

..4-5 sec/lap during a race per lap is not out of the question as he is not as fast in the race as he is in qualifying. He has always fallen off in as the race goes on....Could be fitness or how he likes his car which does not adapt to the track. Could be he is a bit like Trulli who has a narrow comfort zone in how he likes his car.



This speculation from your side is wrong for me. You don't know. Schumacher is faster in a race, he was always better in his race performances. So you could also say MS is particularly slow on one lap but better in a race distance. To say Rosberg has fallen off in a race is biased. Especially with MGP this year they cannot push all the race, that's why Schumacher has often troubles in his last laps of a stint while Rosberg can go faster for two or three laps. He can save the tyres better. As I said Nico is still an underrated driver these days. He can only lose against Schumacher not matter how much more points he secured or how much faster in qualifying or some races he is.

Edited by rog, 17 August 2010 - 09:28.


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#4700 slaveceru

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:26

Not quite sure what the Alonso interview has to do with anything; he drives for Ferrari. As for the above, both drivers expressed cautious optimism, as we can see. One says there is no reason they can't challenge for the title and that the car he tested won't be the one he races in Bahrain - all true - and the other says they are in pretty good shape. Neither says the car is an out and out winner, and neither says its crap.

It's worth remembering that Nico was new to the team, too.


I do not get you do you think that the driver will say at the beginning that the car is crap or what?

You have to read only the title of the interview to be able to tell what the driver taught about the performance of the car.
Here is the title of Schumacher intervie:

Michael Schumacher Q&A: Still plenty of work to do and Rosberg Mercedes will be even faster in Bahrain.

Edited by slaveceru, 17 August 2010 - 09:31.