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#4651 Birelman

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 21:52

regarding quality of the current bunch:

The racist Scott, Jackie Stewart:

Stewart said some of the difficulty for Schumacher is the depth of quality drivers in the field this season. "Outside the main teams you've got drivers as good and as experienced as Rubens Barrichello and Robert Kubica. It's the best group of top drivers that I can remember."

Another racist, Martin Brundle:

He says he has recharged his batteries; I hope he pops a couple more long-life ones in his pocket because he’ll need them. I wouldn’t bet against him winning races or even a championship but he’s going to have to pedal very hard. Alonso won the final two championships Schumacher contested and he’s even stronger now.

Hamilton has established himself as a superstar, while Massa is an altogether better package than when he was Schumacher’s understudy. Button has come of age, while Sebastian Vettel is hailed as the “new Schumacher”. These rivals present a huge challenge for a 41-year-old, even a seven-time world champion.

Schumacher says competition within the sport has always been strong but he has never faced this depth of quality. Will he be able to compete at this level?


Also...a quote from M Schumacher after completing 100 laps during pre season testing:


Q: You could always measure the quality of your cars. What are you feeling about the MGP W01?
MS: I am fully convinced that we have a car that is able to fight for the championship.


I think the walls of reality are crashing down in Schumiland :)

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#4652 rog

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 21:53

Now you have LH, Vettel, Alonso..Kubica? Webber?-very small gap-> Massa/Button--->bigger gap Nico-small gap->RB, MS everyone else.



You made my day. Massa in a much faster car (who was behind Nico in WDC till last race) according to you much better than Nico, nice rating. How much slower is Nico to Vettel or Webber? 1 second or 2 seconds per lap? Looks like Nico is still an underrated driver, nothing has changed.

#4653 Birelman

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 21:57

You made my day. Massa in a much faster car (who was behind Nico in WDC till last race) according to you much better than Nico, nice rating. How much slower is Nico to Vettel or Webber? 1 second or 2 seconds per lap? Looks like Nico is still an underrated driver, nothing has changed.

1, 2 seconds? lol what is this, the Bush league?

The difference between these drivers is not quantifyable. It's small, very small, to say the least. To try to speculate on the quantifyable ammount of speed difference stupid, to say the least.

#4654 rog

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 22:08

1, 2 seconds? lol what is this, the Bush league?

The difference between these drivers is not quantifyable. It's small, very small, to say the least. To try to speculate on the quantifyable ammount of speed difference stupid, to say the least.



A "bigger gap" suggests a big time difference as well. Let's say a tenth or two isn't really a big difference. Alonso or Hamilton are often 2-3 tenths faster to their teammate named Button und Massa. And even Massa and Button have a "bigger gap" to Nico in his list. According to jimms logic it should be at least half a second. But maybe he is thinking 1 second or two seconds, I asked him.

Edited by rog, 16 August 2010 - 22:09.


#4655 Birelman

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 22:30

A "bigger gap" suggests a big time difference as well. Let's say a tenth or two isn't really a big difference. Alonso or Hamilton are often 2-3 tenths faster to their teammate named Button und Massa. And even Massa and Button have a "bigger gap" to Nico in his list. According to jimms logic it should be at least half a second. But maybe he is thinking 1 second or two seconds, I asked him.

It's not quantifiable, and suggesting it is, suggests to me little knowledge of the sport. 2 tenths is a lifetime in the F1 world (in ANY racing world actually), it's not small. No, there can't be a 1 second gap over another excellent driver in equal conditions, there could be for 1 session, but not a constant speed advantage that can be quantifiable as you're trying to suggest. With enough training, you could even lap within 1.5 of these guys.

#4656 rog

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 22:40

It's not quantifiable, and suggesting it is, suggests to me little knowledge of the sport. 2 tenths is a lifetime in the F1 world (in ANY racing world actually), it's not small. No, there can't be a 1 second gap over another excellent driver in equal conditions, there could be for 1 session, but not a constant speed advantage that can be quantifiable as you're trying to suggest. With enough training, you could even lap within 1.5 of these guys.


I'm not asked you, I'm asking jimm what he thinks. He made the list not you. 2 tenths is a small gap according him, so it must be a much bigger difference. With a second to Rosberg - Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel could fight for the championship even with the MGP01 this year! :eek:

#4657 jimm

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 02:21

I'm not asked you, I'm asking jimm what he thinks. He made the list not you. 2 tenths is a small gap according him, so it must be a much bigger difference. With a second to Rosberg - Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel could fight for the championship even with the MGP01 this year! :eek:



Don't think I ever quantified anything. Absolute quantified time to time comparisons don't work really because there is a difference between a lap time done a few times and a lap time done every lap. For example, MS can on occasion this year do a lap faster than Nico, but on average, Nico is faster.

Used to grade exams as a grad student and there are natural breaks between groupings of the best to next level etc all the way down to the worst. While I did not quantify it 1-2 tenths is, in fact, a small difference averaged over a season...even over a single lap. on a 10 corner track, that is 1-2 hundredths/corner...not really much difference but enough to have a seperation especially at this level. Nico (you must be a fan..or trying to justify MS's poor form trying to make him the new Jim Clark) being around ..4-5 sec/lap during a race per lap is not out of the question as he is not as fast in the race as he is in qualifying. He has always fallen off in as the race goes on....Could be fitness or how he likes his car which does not adapt to the track. Could be he is a bit like Trulli who has a narrow comfort zone in how he likes his car.

I will say this, I don't agree with 1 sec but I think Alonso or Hamilton would have a shot at a win in the Merc at some point during the year. Regardless, Nico is for sure NOT better than they are...so add him to the list of top drivers if it makes you feel better....only adds to my opinioin that there are more quality drivers at the top than during the 90s.

Edited by jimm, 17 August 2010 - 02:21.


#4658 baddog

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 03:44

No driver is 2 tenths or 5 tenths or whatever slower than another. Thats the kind of shorthand comment that commentators love, but which doesnt really mean anything. A driver will be better in some of many ways, more precise on braking, more subtle on the throttle, more able to feel some aspect of the handling etc etc etc, their teammate may be better in some but worse overall.. but to try to add all that up to '2 tenths better' is just silly, as seen by the constant variation in performance between teammates across seasons, circuits and even sessions. Im sure Ive been guilty of it too, but it is nonsense.

Edited by baddog, 17 August 2010 - 03:45.


#4659 aditya-now

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 04:01

No driver is 2 tenths or 5 tenths or whatever slower than another. Thats the kind of shorthand comment that commentators love, but which doesnt really mean anything. A driver will be better in some of many ways, more precise on braking, more subtle on the throttle, more able to feel some aspect of the handling etc etc etc, their teammate may be better in some but worse overall.. but to try to add all that up to '2 tenths better' is just silly, as seen by the constant variation in performance between teammates across seasons, circuits and even sessions. Im sure Ive been guilty of it too, but it is nonsense.


I agree that it will be hard to add these factors up to a mathematical "2 tenths better" (or slower). Too small a time interval to be seriously measured as a constant difference between two drivers. But, as we have seen, and, as we are seeing, there are drivers that are 8 tenths or 1 second slower than another driver on a regular basis.

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#4660 jimm

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 04:39

No driver is 2 tenths or 5 tenths or whatever slower than another. Thats the kind of shorthand comment that commentators love, but which doesnt really mean anything. A driver will be better in some of many ways, more precise on braking, more subtle on the throttle, more able to feel some aspect of the handling etc etc etc, their teammate may be better in some but worse overall.. but to try to add all that up to '2 tenths better' is just silly, as seen by the constant variation in performance between teammates across seasons, circuits and even sessions. Im sure Ive been guilty of it too, but it is nonsense.



To a large part I agree....especially considering that it will change from track to track depending on how the car/track suit the driver.

That said, you can spot trends over the many races. I did not quantify it but used his idea to make my arguement.

#4661 Fortymark

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 06:33

Also...a quote from M Schumacher after completing 100 laps during pre season testing:


Q: You could always measure the quality of your cars. What are you feeling about the MGP W01?
MS: I am fully convinced that we have a car that is able to fight for the championship.


Ouch!
Didn´t the whole MS-yahoo bunch claim that Nico was the one telling they had a championship
winning car while MS was more sceptical? :lol:


#4662 slaveceru

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 06:54

Sorry, I didn't read your point correctly last time. With all those factors involved, you have to ask what he's doing in f1, surely? OK, so he's over retirement now - or should be in any logocal view - and his car's not great, and next year he'll be aware of the rules, and know the team, although he may still not like the tyres, but his age, him, and the lack of testing are not going to go away, are they? It's a curious situation.

The situation is curious as you have stated but he still deserves the place in f1 grid. As he has told several times he likes to be challenged and he is facing the biggest challenge in his career.

Edited by slaveceru, 17 August 2010 - 06:58.


#4663 slaveceru

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 07:15

Ouch!
Didn´t the whole MS-yahoo bunch claim that Nico was the one telling they had a championship
winning car while MS was more sceptical? :lol:

Here is his last opinion from him about the car prior the Bahrain race.
Q: Michael, after this test the next stop is Bahrain. Are you satisfied with the car?
Michael Schumacher: Only the future will show if it’s a winner. We are working very hard and there is still a lot of work to do. I would not say that at the moment it is all going according to plan, but on the other hand I know that the car here in Barcelona is not the car that I will drive in Bahrain. There are still upgrades that are missing, so it is quite difficult to make a valid judgment of where we are.
As you can see he is so optimistic about the car. :rotfl:

MS: But in general, I would say that I don’t see any reason why we should not have a say on the championship.

He still has a hope about the performance of car as it is normal at this stage.

Edited by slaveceru, 17 August 2010 - 07:16.


#4664 Lifew12

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:01

The situation is curious as you have stated but he still deserves the place in f1 grid. As he has told several times he likes to be challenged and he is facing the biggest challenge in his career.


I absolutely agree he deserves a place on the grid, and am happy to see him there. I don't pay his wages, though. I've no doubt Luca Badoer 'likes to be challenged', too.


#4665 ivand911

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:09

First I wasn't dismissing Vettel win in STR. I just point that the car wasn't so bad. Yes, other driver Bourdais did show such good results like Vettel. About MGP car, for me Nico is getting maximum from it. We never saw Lewis driving other F1 car than McLaren(from first day he was driving competitive cars). I don't think he could adapt better to MGP car than Nico. About Alonso he know how to drive not so good cars, like Nico ,then maybe he could be around his level. But, nobody could say 100% how Lewis and Alonso will do in MGP car. I would very like to see this. Because it is not working this way: I think they are better drivers than Nico ,then they will beat him with every car. This is not true. It is easy to be in Ferrari and McLaren worlds. About Michael he need to learn not only how to drive this new car, and also how to work in new "no test" conditions. Now they use simulators,CFD and other stuff he don't know much. In this area he will have problems to catch Nico. Not only cars and tyres changed in this 3 years. In Turkey they tell him we expect 2-3mm rain and he was : What!!!!!
And now 100 people will come here to say that even if Lewis go now in MGP he will destroy Nico. :rotfl:

Edited by ivand911, 17 August 2010 - 08:19.


#4666 Fortymark

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:16

Here is his last opinion from him about the car prior the Bahrain race.
Q: Michael, after this test the next stop is Bahrain. Are you satisfied with the car?
Michael Schumacher: Only the future will show if it’s a winner. We are working very hard and there is still a lot of work to do. I would not say that at the moment it is all going according to plan, but on the other hand I know that the car here in Barcelona is not the car that I will drive in Bahrain. There are still upgrades that are missing, so it is quite difficult to make a valid judgment of where we are.
As you can see he is so optimistic about the car. :rotfl:

MS: But in general, I would say that I don’t see any reason why we should not have a say on the championship. He still has a hope about the performance of car as it is normal at this stage.


Or you can also say he doesn´t know if the car is a winner or not. He thinks it´s a very good
car as he thinks he can challenge for the championship with it.

#4667 black magic

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:16

soory but that was michael diplomatic speech for the car is crap

take out the final line and he has expressed serious doubts.

look michael usually tells it how he genuinely sees it

I also dont have a admitting that this yrs grid is one of the stronngest from any generation. and the reliablity continues to slowly improve

7 wdc still stand as does numerous drives that shouldnt have been possible and has been pointed out endlessly that it is these drives that are actually responsible for the schumacher legend. 7 wdc are in effect the accolades and yet clearly at least 3 wdc would have gone to many other drivers in the 2001 - 2004 ferrari inclusive

but again it was the like sof spain 96 or china 2006, brazil 2006 that created the schumacher legend not his exploits 2004

#4668 slaveceru

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:28

Or you can also say he doesn´t know if the car is a winner or not. He thinks it´s a very good
car as he thinks he can challenge for the championship with it.

:rotfl:
Here is what Rosberg has said at the last training.
Q: Red Bull finished well ahead of everyone else. Is that a worry?
NR: No, not really. We can match the time and probably even go faster - that’s why it is nothing to get nervous about.
Q: There are two weeks until Bahrain. After three tests, who would you say were the strongest contenders?
NR: It is still impossible to say. The car will make a big step forward in Bahrain. It’ll be almost like a new car, so everything might be completely different once we are there. I would say we are in pretty good shape.
If you compare the answer from Schumacher and Rosberg at the last training you could see that Rosberg is more optimistic about the car and what could this car achieve.
So who was right about the performance of the car Schumacher or Rosberg?

Edited by slaveceru, 17 August 2010 - 08:29.


#4669 Fortymark

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:29

soory but that was michael diplomatic speech for the car is crap

take out the final line and he has expressed serious doubts.


I also dont have a admitting that this yrs grid is one of the stronngest from any generation. and the reliablity continues to slowly improve


That´s not the point, the point is that some here claimed that Rosberg was praising the car like hell
while MS was sceptical. Man proved the opposite and everybody can read for themselfes that Michael
thinks he can challenge for the championship with it.
It´s yet another myth that MS´s input or technical feedback is better than everyone elses, especially his
teammate Rosbergs.

You´re correct, this year we have a very strong lineup with many equal cars, engines and tires.
This is not 2002 or 2004 when Michael had the best car, engine, tires and #1 status.
This is a completly different ballgame.


#4670 Fortymark

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:39

:rotfl:
Here is what Rosberg has said at the last training.
Q: Red Bull finished well ahead of everyone else. Is that a worry?
NR: No, not really. We can match the time and probably even go faster - that’s why it is nothing to get nervous about.
Q: There are two weeks until Bahrain. After three tests, who would you say were the strongest contenders?
NR: It is still impossible to say. The car will make a big step forward in Bahrain. It’ll be almost like a new car, so everything might be completely different once we are there. I would say we are in pretty good shape.
If you compare the answer from Schumacher and Rosberg at the last training you could see that Rosberg is more optimistic about the car and what could this car achieve.
So who was right about the performance of the car Schumacher or Rosberg?



So we have in one corner Rosberg saying the car is "in pretty good shape" and "it´s impossible to say"
and "might be completly different" once they arrive in Bahrain

And then Schumacher whom says "Only the future will tell if it´s a winner or not" and "I don’t see any reason why we should not have a say on the championship"



#4671 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:47

Q: You could always measure the quality of your cars. What are you feeling about the MGP W01?
MS: I am fully convinced that we have a car that is able to fight for the championship.



Bearing in mind that this quote was in the first week of pre-season testing.....



.....but we'll ignore that fact shall we?

Here's what Schumacher said two weeks later, 27th February

Only the future will show if it’s a winner. We are working very hard and there is still a lot of work to do. I would not say that at the moment it is all going according to plan


Source: http://www.formula1....10/2/10474.html

Edited by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, 17 August 2010 - 08:52.


#4672 TURU

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:49

So we have in one corner Rosberg saying the car is "in pretty good shape" and "it´s impossible to say"
and "might be completly different" once they arrive in Bahrain

And then Schumacher whom says "Only the future will tell if it´s a winner or not" and "I don’t see any reason why we should not have a say on the championship"


To be honest, I would say that both of them said pretty the same thing. This second statement of Schumacher was just usual PR.

#4673 ivand911

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 08:51

And then Schumacher whom says "Only the future will tell if it´s a winner or not" and "I don’t see any reason why we should not have a say on the championship"

And they say: Bye-bye.
He didn't lie.

#4674 Fortymark

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:00

And they say: Bye-bye.
He didn't lie.


The point is that some here lied, Rosberg didn´t praise the car
like hell and thought it was a championship winner.
Schumacher wasn´t more sceptical than Rosberg..


#4675 slaveceru

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:05

That´s not the point, the point is that some here claimed that Rosberg was praising the car like hell
while MS was sceptical. Man proved the opposite and everybody can read for themselfes that Michael
thinks he can challenge for the championship with it.
It´s yet another myth that MS´s input or technical feedback is better than everyone elses, especially his
teammate Rosbergs.

:rotfl:

I will give you the interview with Alonso who was like Rosberg optimistic about the performance of the car but there is the difference what both drivers taught about RB performance.

Alonso:
"I think that someone showed his muscles, while we didn’t(he was thinking about RG performace),” said the Spaniard following Jerez. “We’ll see in Barcelona - when we’ll show up with the latest updates - where we are compared to the others. We can say that we’re on the right way.

“Over these two days on the dry I could drive many miles and I’m satisfied by the car’s performance and reliability. The F10 is growing very well and there’s nothing that should worry us. We worked on the long run today and the signs we got are really positive.”
Were in a interview of Schumacher do you find those words like in case of Alonso or Rosberg I can not find them.
Let see what Rosber taught about RB performance in last training and compare this to what Alonso has said about RB performance.

RB
Q: Red Bull finished well ahead of everyone else. Is that a worry?
NR: No, not really. We can match the time and probably even go faster - that’s why it is nothing to get nervous about.

Alonso:
"I think that someone showed his muscles, while we didn’t.
This is what Schumacher has said about RB performance.
Q: What are your thoughts on the pace of Red Bull?
MS: I just got out of my car, so excuse me if I’m not ready to give you a complete and detailed analysis of our competitors. We have not been as fast today as we would have liked to have been, but that is all I can say at the moment.


Once again who was right about the performance of this year car Rosberg or Schumacher?

Edited by slaveceru, 17 August 2010 - 09:12.


#4676 pRy

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:10

I would think Heidfeld being released by Mercedes GP suggests Schumacher isn't planning on leaving end of the year.

#4677 Lifew12

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:11

Once again who was right about the performance of this year car Rosberg or Schumacher?


Not quite sure what the Alonso interview has to do with anything; he drives for Ferrari. As for the above, both drivers expressed cautious optimism, as we can see. One says there is no reason they can't challenge for the title and that the car he tested won't be the one he races in Bahrain - all true - and the other says they are in pretty good shape. Neither says the car is an out and out winner, and neither says its crap.

It's worth remembering that Nico was new to the team, too.

#4678 Lifew12

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:12

I would think Heidfeld being released by Mercedes GP suggests Schumacher isn't planning on leaving end of the year.


I think it's more Nick having taken up a paid option rather than waiting around to see what happens as happened last year.

#4679 Fortymark

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:14

:rotfl:
Once again who was right about the performance abut this year car Rosberg or Schumacher?


:rolleyes:

Rosberg was more right than Schumacher, end of discussion.
Schumacher clearly says he believes he has the car to
have a say on the championship..

But for the last time, the point isn´t whom had the best prediction.
It´s about some here lying about that Rosberg was upbeat and praising
the car while Schumacher was sceptical and didn´t share Rosbergs positive
feedback. It was all a lie.


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#4680 Fortymark

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:16

Not quite sure what the Alonso interview has to do with anything; he drives for Ferrari. As for the above, both drivers expressed cautious optimism, as we can see. One says there is no reason they can't challenge for the title and that the car he tested won't be the one he races in Bahrain - all true - and the other says they are in pretty good shape. Neither says the car is an out and out winner, and neither says its crap.

It's worth remembering that Nico was new to the team, too.


:up:
I had no idea either..

#4681 slaveceru

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:18

Not quite sure what the Alonso interview has to do with anything; he drives for Ferrari. As for the above, both drivers expressed cautious optimism, as we can see. One says there is no reason they can't challenge for the title and that the car he tested won't be the one he races in Bahrain - all true - and the other says they are in pretty good shape. Neither says the car is an out and out winner, and neither says its crap.

It's worth remembering that Nico was new to the team, too.


I have given Alonso interview as an example what driver says about the car when he fills that it is a good car but I agree no one knows if it will be quick enough to compete for WDC and the felling about the car performance on the track is most important in training.
What strike me what all three drivers has thought about the performance of RB in training and there was major difference between Rosberg and the other two drivers.

#4682 aditya-now

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:21

That´s not the point, the point is that some here claimed that Rosberg was praising the car like hell
while MS was sceptical. Man proved the opposite and everybody can read for themselfes that Michael
thinks he can challenge for the championship with it.
It´s yet another myth that MS´s input or technical feedback is better than everyone elses, especially his
teammate Rosbergs.


If Michael´s input were so much better than anyone elses it´s a miracle he hasn´t done something about it. Well, in fact he can´t even reproduce in 2010 what he did in 1996 - clearly it´s not the same Schumacher anymore. The tiger still has his stripes (see Hungary) but he has lost his power and spirit.


#4683 rog

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:24

..4-5 sec/lap during a race per lap is not out of the question as he is not as fast in the race as he is in qualifying. He has always fallen off in as the race goes on....Could be fitness or how he likes his car which does not adapt to the track. Could be he is a bit like Trulli who has a narrow comfort zone in how he likes his car.



This speculation from your side is wrong for me. You don't know. Schumacher is faster in a race, he was always better in his race performances. So you could also say MS is particularly slow on one lap but better in a race distance. To say Rosberg has fallen off in a race is biased. Especially with MGP this year they cannot push all the race, that's why Schumacher has often troubles in his last laps of a stint while Rosberg can go faster for two or three laps. He can save the tyres better. As I said Nico is still an underrated driver these days. He can only lose against Schumacher not matter how much more points he secured or how much faster in qualifying or some races he is.

Edited by rog, 17 August 2010 - 09:28.


#4684 slaveceru

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:26

Not quite sure what the Alonso interview has to do with anything; he drives for Ferrari. As for the above, both drivers expressed cautious optimism, as we can see. One says there is no reason they can't challenge for the title and that the car he tested won't be the one he races in Bahrain - all true - and the other says they are in pretty good shape. Neither says the car is an out and out winner, and neither says its crap.

It's worth remembering that Nico was new to the team, too.


I do not get you do you think that the driver will say at the beginning that the car is crap or what?

You have to read only the title of the interview to be able to tell what the driver taught about the performance of the car.
Here is the title of Schumacher intervie:

Michael Schumacher Q&A: Still plenty of work to do and Rosberg Mercedes will be even faster in Bahrain.

Edited by slaveceru, 17 August 2010 - 09:31.


#4685 aditya-now

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:26

Q: You could always measure the quality of your cars. What are you feeling about the MGP W01?
MS: I am fully convinced that we have a car that is able to fight for the championship.


As they say, good drivers can always tell right away if a car "has it" (championship potential) or not.
Here Schumacher was clearly erring. He was not able to tell right away that the car did not "have it".

#4686 Lifew12

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:27

I have given Alonso interview as an example what driver says about the car when he fills that it is a good car but I agree no one knows if it will be quick enough to compete for WDC and the felling about the car performance on the track is most important in training.
What strike me what all three drivers has thought about the performance of RB in training and there was major difference between Rosberg and the other two drivers.


I don't think there is any 'major difference' at all. All three were cautiously optimistic. Rosberg reckoned the Mercedes could go faster than the Red Bull. Michael thought it would have a shot at the title. Alonso says the feeling is positive.

None had a crystal ball, and all had the information from testing where they are limited to comparing their car to those on unknown programmes.

#4687 Lifew12

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:29

You have to read only the title


The title is written by a sub-editor, not the driver. I write titles in my job all the time, they don't always tell the real story (and deliberately so). The title to the Michael interview could easily have read 'Schumacher cautiously optimistic over MB pace' and still been 'accurate'.


#4688 aditya-now

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:33

I would think Heidfeld being released by Mercedes GP suggests Schumacher isn't planning on leaving end of the year.


Question here is if Heidfeld will be covertly working for Mercedes GP and Schumacher at his Pirelli tests.


#4689 slaveceru

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:39

The title is written by a sub-editor, not the driver. I write titles in my job all the time, they don't always tell the real story (and deliberately so). The title to the Michael interview could easily have read 'Schumacher cautiously optimistic over MB pace' and still been 'accurate'.


The title was taken from an interview. Why do you not read what Rosberg has said about RB performance if you read it you can see way is there such a title and in the case of Schumacher you can read it that he is as you have stated cautiously. Was Rosberg in your opinion also cautiously optimistic about the performance of the car?

#4690 TURU

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:40

Question here is if Heidfeld will be covertly working for Mercedes GP and Schumacher at his Pirelli tests.


No, he won't. He is no longer connected with Mercedes GP. I'm sure that there is a clause in his contract with Pirelli, which states that he mustn't have any contact with any team. I don't think that Heidfeld is eager to break terms of his just-signed contract with Pirelli.  ;) .

And I don't want next spygate, so let him fully concentrate on his task...

#4691 slaveceru

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:49

I don't think there is any 'major difference' at all. All three were cautiously optimistic. Rosberg reckoned the Mercedes could go faster than the Red Bull. Michael thought it would have a shot at the title. Alonso says the feeling is positive.

None had a crystal ball, and all had the information from testing where they are limited to comparing their car to those on unknown programmes.

All drivers from the top teams at the beginning of the F1 season will say that they have a shot to the title when they are asked this question did you not noticed this or what or when they come to the team who has won the last WDC?

Edited by slaveceru, 17 August 2010 - 09:51.


#4692 Lifew12

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:50

Was Rosberg in your opinion also cautiously optimistic about the performance of the car?


Let's have a look, shall we?

"Q: There are two weeks until Bahrain. After three tests, who would you say were the strongest contenders?
Nico R: It is still impossible to say. The car will make a big step forward in Bahrain. It’ll be almost like a new car, so everything might be completely different once we are there. I would say we are in pretty good shape."

Compare this to Michael:

"Q: Michael, after this test the next stop is Bahrain. Are you satisfied with the car?
Michael Schumacher: Only the future will show if it’s a winner. We are working very hard and there is still a lot of work to do. I would not say that at the moment it is all going according to plan, but on the other hand I know that the car here in Barcelona is not the car that I will drive in Bahrain. There are still upgrades that are missing, so it is quite difficult to make a valid judgment of where we are. "

So Nico says it's impossible to say, Michael says only the future will show. Nico says there will be a big step forwward at Bahrain, Michael says the car at Barcelona is not the car for Bahrain. Nico says they are in pretty good shape, Michael says it is difficult to make a valid judgement, and so on.

Neither says the car is great, neither says it's crap, both say it's got more to come, and both are more optimistic than pessimistic.

In answer to your question, yes, Nico is most definitely cautiously optimistic, and so is Michael. We'll ignore Alonso, as he has nothing to do with this.



#4693 flyer121

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:55

Question here is if Heidfeld will be covertly working for Mercedes GP and Schumacher at his Pirelli tests.


Quite possible ..

Pirelli are not going to give him the F1 drive he is working so hard for ..

He will come back to Merc either in 2011 (long shot) or 2012 (very likely)

#4694 eoin

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 09:58

Question here is if Heidfeld will be covertly working for Mercedes GP and Schumacher at his Pirelli tests.


:lol:
That level of paranoia isn't healthy!

Lifew12- those are two different questions. Rosberg was asked had they the best car, he felt that they might have, Schumacher was asked was he happy with the car and he said no.

Edited by eoin, 17 August 2010 - 10:00.


#4695 Lifew12

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 10:02

Lifew12- those are two different questions. Rosberg was asked had they the best car, he felt that they might have, Schumacher was asked was he happy with the car and he said no.


Michael doesn't say no at all, and Nico doesn't say they might have the best car either; Michael says it's difficult to make a judgement, Nico says it's impossible to tell.


#4696 slaveceru

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 10:22

Let's have a look, shall we?

"Q: There are two weeks until Bahrain. After three tests, who would you say were the strongest contenders?
Nico R: It is still impossible to say. The car will make a big step forward in Bahrain. It’ll be almost like a new car, so everything might be completely different once we are there. I would say we are in pretty good shape."

Compare this to Michael:

"Q: Michael, after this test the next stop is Bahrain. Are you satisfied with the car?
Michael Schumacher: Only the future will show if it’s a winner. We are working very hard and there is still a lot of work to do. I would not say that at the moment it is all going according to plan, but on the other hand I know that the car here in Barcelona is not the car that I will drive in Bahrain. There are still upgrades that are missing, so it is quite difficult to make a valid judgment of where we are. "

So Nico says it's impossible to say, Michael says only the future will show. Nico says there will be a big step forwward at Bahrain, Michael says the car at Barcelona is not the car for Bahrain. Nico says they are in pretty good shape, Michael says it is difficult to make a valid judgement, and so on.

Neither says the car is great, neither says it's crap, both say it's got more to come, and both are more optimistic than pessimistic.

In answer to your question, yes, Nico is most definitely cautiously optimistic, and so is Michael. We'll ignore Alonso, as he has nothing to do with this.


Ok than we agree to disagree. No driver will say that the car at the beginning is the winning car or is crap but there are differences.





#4697 Lifew12

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 10:41

Ok than we agree to disagree. No driver will say that the car at the beginning is the winning car or is crap but there are differences.


Absolutely; there are no major differences, however, as both drivers say pretty much the same thing.

I agree with you entirely that no driver is going to declare his car as 'crap' but many would - and have - stated they are optimistic; the problem is that it is difficult, as both these drivers attest to, to draw a sensible conclusion from testing as nobody really knows what the others are doing. Both Michael and Nico made a fair assessment of the car after testing - that's all we can expect them to do - but attempting to analyse the words of each to say one was 'right' and the other 'wrong' is a false hope. Rosberg is no fool and comes highly rated in terms of his development prowess from his days at Williams; Michael has years of experience in the field that have not gone away because he's a bit older and has been out for a while. I'm sure that each offers something of worth to the team.

#4698 Muz Bee

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 10:45

Whaaaaat???
All this "he said this, he said that" rubbish is meant to prove something. Like Nico has never driven a decent car in F1 so he isn't qualified to what? Alonso said beforre Bahrain that the Ferrari was the best car he had driven and was bullish about his prospects. So what? F1 these days is more than ever a development race in-season with no testing opportunities. The team that has a head start at the first race won't necessarily be fastest at mid-season let alone end of season and WDC.

Let's for a moment say that Nico actually was more optimistic about the MB before Bahrain than Michael, and I'm far from convinced he was. After the 4 race "fly away" segment of the calendar Nico was 2nd in the WDC and had scored two consecutive podiums. Compare Michael's performances that dropped our jaws in amazement really. Maybe IF there was a difference, and I doubt there was really much difference in opinion, that they WERE BOTH RIGHT!

What has become real trend is Red Bull have had amazing development gains during the season and the others (and especially Mercedes) are struggling to keep up with that development. The Michael factor of (reputedly) dragging car development along has had a poor result. OK, I accept the car has fundamental problems and is something of a shed aerodynamically.

It seems like the Schumacher faithful are trying to now grab hold of some notion that Rosberg can't get a handle on a race car and that maybe THIS is holding back the team. Or is not the point being hewn out of the pieces in the recent posts. Hell, on that basis maybe Mercedes need to think hard who should team up with Michael in 2011. :lol:

#4699 Buttoneer

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 10:48

A reminder of the thread subject.

Aim of this thread is to discuss issues related to Michael Schumacher. After Bahrain voices were heard about several weaknesses in his current cornering technique. It is my hope we can continue in that spirit, and check on him through the season.

I wish to welcome all, friends and also those ready for conversion as well.;)

There are threads for the battle with his teammate and for the car, so please try and focus the discussion a little more to Schumacher in this thread. I appreciate that there must inevitably be some overlap but I'd like to see the various threads back on target now please.

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#4700 Muz Bee

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 10:53

Schumi: I am not in harmony with my car
http://www.yallaf1.c...ny-with-my-car/

I think what Michael says here is totally plausible but as an armchair critic would add that it looks like aero is incredibly inefficient. The Mercedes engine is reputably the best of the bunch (and the McLaren seems to exhibit this) but the Mercedes chassis's utilisation of this good power results in trap speeds only better than the B teams. The car also seems to suffer more in the dirty air than others as witnessed by how the drivers struggle to get within 1.0 second of a car which is measurably slower. The drivers seem to know this and drive accordingly, often falling back 2- 2.5 seconds and conserving their (front) tires. It has become more and more apparent that the car has massive flaws in it's fundamentals so Schumie does have SOME excuses, even if Rosberg has extracted some better than can be expected results.