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New Jersey GP? [merged]


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#451 pRy

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 19:13

I quite fancy the idea of this. I've not been to NY yet.

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#452 August

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 19:14

Maybe a similar deal as Austin where money comes from a state fund and is offset by increased tourism/sales tax income?


Check this.

We're told that the race will not use any public funds or incentives to make it happen.



#453 red stick

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 19:16

OMG

http://www.planet-f1...r-New-Jersey-GP

The United States will host its first F1 race since 2007 next year when the Circuit of the Americas in Austin stages its maiden race. However, F1 supremo Eccleston has long advocated for a race to be staged on the Northeast megalopolis of the US and his dream will be realized in two years after a consortium of investors and city and state governments reached a deal.

The race will run on the Hudson River shoreline just minutes from New York City and will take place on a four-lane highway, two lanes in each direction

According to West New York mayor Felix Roque, the grand prix will give the area a massive financial boost.

"This is going to be an economic boom for this whole region. While political and public servants talk about creating jobs, the governor has put the pedal to the metal and delivered," Roque told Reuters.

"This is the top of the line in motor racing, it's incredible."

New Jersey governor Chris Christie is set to announce the deal in Weehawken, New Jersey, on Tuesday.

Joe DeMarco, an attorney with West New York, says it will be a long-term project.

"It will provide a very challenging course - they compare it to Spa in Belgium, but will have the feel of Monaco," said DeMarco.


He added: "It has been contemplated to at least run for ten years but there are options and so on depending on the success of it. Hopefully it will be a long term event, embraced by residents and the community."


Spa? Monaco? Who's "they"?

#454 One

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 19:17

I made that based on Saward's desciption of track. The proposed profile was at f1fanatic and it looked like this.

Posted Image

Track length 5.16 km, driven clockwise, Saward's blog implies.



The circuit is Circuit of the Americas, race is United States Grand Prix.


Besides, who should a saint man rotate the car in clock wise here? It must be anti clock wise IF you want to catch CARS running with the back ground of Upper Manhattan skyline. Current one has Harlem, should it be more attractive to look at Harlem, or Lower Manhattan, more than Mid or Upper Manhattan?

Com'on, you can't deny that guys in MOnaco can see the Sea Every day, including all the yacht parking there. Retard design billion USD track and all the effort are gone.

#455 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 19:19

Not the rest of 10 million on the TV boy.


I'm sure there will be plenty of long distance shots of the city skyline pre-race like we get at Melbourne, Montreal, and Singapore.

#456 Diablobb81

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 19:32

Elevation

http://twitpic.com/75pe2j

#457 One

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 19:33

I'm sure there will be plenty of long distance shots of the city skyline pre-race like we get at Melbourne, Montreal, and Singapore.


SO you are SURE? for the whole 10 years NOT looking the Upper Manhattan and MISSING the WTC memorial rising up in the back drop of Main Straight in NYC GP? You are just SURE...? What you need is science, not you idea.

#458 One

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 19:35

Elevation

http://twitpic.com/75pe2j


You will look towards Upper Manhattan BETWEEN THE WOODS! What a Billions of $$ missed chance! Who is messing up the Bernie's life work!!!

#459 TheSaltire

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 19:37

The Tilke elevation drawing from @F1grid on twitter:

Posted Image

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#460 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 19:38

SO you are SURE? for the whole 10 years NOT looking the Upper Manhattan and MISSING the WTC memorial rising up in the back drop of Main Straight in NYC GP? You are just SURE...? What you need is science, not you idea.


It's an F1 race, not a 9/11 memorial.

#461 katmen

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 19:41

So which race will make way for this one then? Does anyone have a list of when the current circuits on the 2011 have their contracts expired?


PLEASE be it Valencia AND Catalunya

#462 bonneville

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 19:41

You will look towards Upper Manhattan BETWEEN THE WOODS! What a Billions of $$ missed chance! Who is messing up the Bernie's life work!!!


Wrong. You're across the Hudson from Manhattan... Pristine view of the City...

#463 Wi000

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 19:44

SO you are SURE? for the whole 10 years NOT looking the Upper Manhattan and MISSING the WTC memorial rising up in the back drop of Main Straight in NYC GP? You are just SURE...? What you need is science, not you idea.


You will look towards Upper Manhattan BETWEEN THE WOODS! What a Billions of $$ missed chance! Who is messing up the Bernie's life work!!!

Overreacting much? :rolleyes:

Like Ross said it will be fine, plenty of shots of the Manhattan skyline for those at home watching TV and seats with an awesome view for those who pay to be at the track.

#464 917k

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 19:44

No way, in USA that'd mean F1 would be a support event.



Without the winkie, this is just plain uninformed or downright foolish. Where have you been for the last 16 years?

#465 One

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 19:55

Overreacting much? :rolleyes:

Like Ross said it will be fine, plenty of shots of the Manhattan skyline for those at home watching TV and seats with an awesome view for those who pay to be at the track.


MAY BE. Sorry, but it worth looking at more critically, It can make huge difference in terms of View.

At the lower section of the track, the arranged track does not allow view over the water towards Manhattan, whereas at the upper section the view is more open also towards Hudson's water surface, which is naturally superb.

At the Upper Section actually as the view is so much open, it does not mater how cars rotate.
At the lower part of the track You would NOT want to see hill, but to the city.

DO not miss it, If it is f0cked up, it is the f0ck of the century.


#466 bonneville

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 19:59

Now is this a view or is this a view? I'm sure this NY skyline seen looking down the bridge will become ubiquitous with the Grand Prix of America.

Posted Image

Edited by bonneville, 25 October 2011 - 20:03.


#467 One

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 20:02

I would say so far to change the trace of the lower south section of the track to align to the upper manhattan and rotate Anti Clock wise, make the main straight with dominant view.
At the hill, place camera so that it will sweep Manhattan on its back ground. Here it does not matter in which way car rotates.
At the north part of the track the car will climb up the hill with the back ground of Manhattan skyline, and at the park camera will sweep the turning climbing cars with skyline on its back... TV get more shots on Manhattan more than clock wise.

Besides, there are too many clock wise tracks, Brazil produces that great race party because it is anti clockwise track that kills neck of drivers.

#468 One

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 20:06

Now is this a view or is this a view? I'm sure this NY skyline seen looking down the bridge will become ubiquitous with the Grand Prix of America.

Posted Image


Did not know that NYC GP will be a night race. Now is it?

#469 August

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 20:06

The cars are usually showed from front, so I went through the circuit backwards in Google Streetview, and noticed that on the upper part of the circuit, if you look towards the cars you see Manhattan, not Harlem.

Anyway, after London Olympics this is the sports event I'm waiting for most eagerly, whereas I'm not excited at all about Indian GP.

#470 One

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 20:17

The cars are usually showed from front, so I went through the circuit backwards in Google Streetview, and noticed that on the upper part of the circuit, if you look towards the cars you see Manhattan, not Harlem.

Anyway, after London Olympics this is the sports event I'm waiting for most eagerly, whereas I'm not excited at all about Indian GP.


With clock wise rotatin, from 14 to 17 you will see cars climbing up hill with the back ground of Manhattan but that is through between the trees here and there.
from 17 to 19 you get more open views, that is most obvious.
And this will be the almost only position where Manhattan will appear in the shot if it was clock wise rotation.



#471 BiH

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 20:18

yay another street course


whats next long beach, baltimore, detroit etc


if they wanted another f1 race should have gone to road america, sebring.....(revamp it f1 standards only needed)

much better then street circuit



so whats going to be cut for 2013

i say any of these are gone

korea
china
valencia or barcelona

Edited by BiH, 25 October 2011 - 20:19.


#472 lustigson

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 20:21

I'm quite excited by this news. Although it's not been news for at least a couple of days. ;)

#473 One

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 20:26

I'm quite excited by this news. Although it's not been news for at least a couple of days.;)


I would sat that with current lay out, we get very disappointed by the shots. Google Earth is nothing, do not trust anything that it shows...

#474 jaisli

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 20:28

I would say so far to change the trace of the lower south section of the track to align to the upper manhattan and rotate Anti Clock wise, make the main straight with dominant view.
At the hill, place camera so that it will sweep Manhattan on its ...


Granted, if it weren't for the city of NY as a focal point, a street race in New Jersey would NEVER happen. I think everybody realizes that. But people who will be attending the race do NOT need to be facing the city. They're there to see the race. I'm sure there will be a lot of locals in the stands, who can pretty much look at the NY skyline every day of their lives.

The race in Montreal takes place on an island in middle of a river. Aside from the wide panning shots, you don't see the city of Montreal from anywhere on or around the track. Well, maybe stand 24. But looking at the city back drop is not going to make or break the race.

#475 August

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 20:28

With clock wise rotatin, from 14 to 17 you will see cars climbing up hill with the back ground of Manhattan but that is through between the trees here and there.
from 17 to 19 you get more open views, that is most obvious.
And this will be the almost only position where Manhattan will appear in the shot if it was clock wise rotation.


On the lower section, buildings, or grandstand at the pit area, will block the view to the other side of Hudson.

Anyway, I guess most people will call this race American Grand Prix instead of Grand Prix of America. An interesting detail is that American Grand Prize was the original name of United States Grand Prix.

I would sat that with current lay out, we get very disappointed by the shots. Google Earth is nothing, do not trust anything that it shows...


What's wrong with Google Earth?

Edited by August, 25 October 2011 - 20:31.


#476 lustigson

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 20:37

Regarding the views on Manhattan: of course cameras won't (all) be on ground level. What about rooftop or crane cams that pan across the cars with the New York City skyline in the background?

#477 Andy865

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 20:38

What an apalling scrap of a track.

#478 lustigson

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 20:40

What an apalling scrap of a track.

Certainly no worse than Valencia, Yeongam or Abu Dhabi.

#479 PayasYouRace

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 20:44

I like the look of it. It's almost like a Macau or a Pau on steroids. It'll be challenging and look very nice too by the looks of it.

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#480 GX390

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 20:45

Hopefully Valencia will make way for it, that track is terrible

#481 One

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 20:49

Granted, if it weren't for the city of NY as a focal point, a street race in New Jersey would NEVER happen. I think everybody realizes that. But people who will be attending the race do NOT need to be facing the city. They're there to see the race. I'm sure there will be a lot of locals in the stands, who can pretty much look at the NY skyline every day of their lives.

The race in Montreal takes place on an island in middle of a river. Aside from the wide panning shots, you don't see the city of Montreal from anywhere on or around the track. Well, maybe stand 24. But looking at the city back drop is not going to make or break the race.


Wrong. most locals have very little time to appreciate view onto own city from this side of land. They are rather between the towers so that they misses the impressive Re-Appreciation. They will rediscover the power of NYC if it were presented in most effective way. Current presentation completely misses this chance. No impression, then guys will not come twice to the track.

Besides, if the track side building attain right views, then the property will gain more interest to pull people into this area, which is the interest of ground owner. Current track lay out fail to do it, big time.


Look at how cars start?

Currently in the clock wise track cars will align its nose looking towards south, meaning that the TV will show Harlem direction, motly covered by stands so see none of Manhattan. I say to rotate the grand stand 90 degrees and rotate anti clock wise so that the cars start with the background of Mid Manhattan.

Country rd 682 section will be shown in TV hopefully like from Spoon to 130R of Suzuka or Branchimon, or Monaco's Tunnel entry like rear view going down the bridge with Manhattan with its back ground.
OK this section can be rotated in the other way round and still make a great view. I am sure about it. But the point is, it comes with clock wise and current Grand Stand,which tels us to FORGET about Manhattan. Now is it correct? I say now, rather I shout NO!

#482 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 20:57

Wtf is wrong with you? It's a Formula 1 race. The skyline is way down the list of priorities. It's a bonus, nothing more.

#483 jaisli

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 20:58

Wrong. most locals have very little time to appreciate view onto own city from this side of land. They are rather between the towers so that they misses the impressive Re-Appreciation. They will rediscover the power of NYC if it were presented in most effective way.

:drunk: Oooookay....

Besides, if the track side building attain right views, then the property will gain more interest to pull people into this area, which is the interest of ground owner. Current track lay out fail to do it, big time.

The PROPERTY owner? The track goes through two different towns--both already highly populated. Nobody is going to move there because of the race. And it doesn't matter which direction the stands face. They move there because it's an easy commute to NY and the rents are less than $4,000/month for a studio.


Currently in the clock wise track cars will align its nose looking towards south, meaning that the TV will show Harlem direction, motly covered by stands so see none of Manhattan.


Harlem again. Do you know where Harlem is? You do know you can't exactly see it from that location. Anyway, the entire point is mute. The cameras are going to show the race. People watching the race, whether behind a TV or at the track, want to see a race. People will come to the race who live here because it's an event. Or because they're already fans. They aren't going to stay away because they can't see the city Skyline from their seats.

Edited by jaisli, 25 October 2011 - 20:59.


#484 Lotusseven

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 21:03

So is Mr Ecclestone gonna drop Monaco GP for this Manhattan spectacle ? :(

#485 alframsey

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 21:03

Wrong. most locals have very little time to appreciate view onto own city from this side of land. They are rather between the towers so that they misses the impressive Re-Appreciation. They will rediscover the power of NYC if it were presented in most effective way. Current presentation completely misses this chance. No impression, then guys will not come twice to the track.

Besides, if the track side building attain right views, then the property will gain more interest to pull people into this area, which is the interest of ground owner. Current track lay out fail to do it, big time.


Look at how cars start?

Currently in the clock wise track cars will align its nose looking towards south, meaning that the TV will show Harlem direction, motly covered by stands so see none of Manhattan. I say to rotate the grand stand 90 degrees and rotate anti clock wise so that the cars start with the background of Mid Manhattan.

Country rd 682 section will be shown in TV hopefully like from Spoon to 130R of Suzuka or Branchimon, or Monaco's Tunnel entry like rear view going down the bridge with Manhattan with its back ground.
OK this section can be rotated in the other way round and still make a great view. I am sure about it. But the point is, it comes with clock wise and current Grand Stand,which tels us to FORGET about Manhattan. Now is it correct? I say now, rather I shout NO!

I'm sorry but who watches a race for the skyline? Like somebody said earlier it is merely a bonus! I'm personally chuffed this will be on the calender, could be magical! Bring it on!!!

#486 bonneville

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 21:05

Here's the full map directly from Tilke's desk (I like the label option 1 - I wish I could see option 2, etc.)

Posted Image

Edited by bonneville, 25 October 2011 - 21:07.


#487 Kubiccia

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 21:07

The cars are usually showed from front, so I went through the circuit backwards in Google Streetview, and noticed that on the upper part of the circuit, if you look towards the cars you see Manhattan, not Harlem.

Anyway, after London Olympics this is the sports event I'm waiting for most eagerly, whereas I'm not excited at all about Indian GP.

I'm with Mastah on this.

Another dull circuit full of 90º degree corners in F1 calendar. ALbert Park is great because it has fast corners but this will be shit like Valencia, Montreal(even though it provide good races), Singapore.

Certainly no worse than Valencia, Yeongam or Abu Dhabi.

:rotfl:

Yeongam is GR8, tones of fast challenging corners. This will be shitty layout with "famous landscapes" and with Snooki and "The Situation" watching live.

#488 Les

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 21:25

I like it. Looks fast if a challenge to make safe but with such strict safety standards elsewhere I'm sure they must be confident of making it so. At least thats one thing Tilke is good at. Hope the circuit doesn't change and become littered with chicanes before 2013 though.

Some races will have to go but Valencia was a stupid idea to begin with, Korea don't seem keen now (what was the point really?) and I hope we don't see Bahrain again (in this case we probably will though. Russia will have a race in a few years too of course.

#489 PayasYouRace

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 21:29

Another dull circuit full of 90º degree corners in F1 calendar. ALbert Park is great because it has fast corners but this will be shit like Valencia, Montreal(even though it provide good races), Singapore.


I guess it helps if you actually look at the circuit layout. The T7-11 section are clearly fast corners, T13 looks like a fast left-hander and T17 looks fast too (I'm counting the little white circles for turn numbers).

#490 BRK

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 21:31

Confirmed, then. I like it, should be a great GP at an iconic place. Drop Valencia to accommodate this one and it will be better still. Though I hope 2013 will be the only year with two US GPs.

#491 RC127

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 21:38

Confirmed, then. I like it, should be a great GP at an iconic place. Drop Valencia to accommodate this one and it will be better still. Though I hope 2013 will be the only year with two US GPs.


You want to get rid of Circuit of the Americas? I don't understand your post.

Circuit of the Americas looks like being Tilke's best track EVER!

#492 tifosi

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 21:39

yay another street course


whats next long beach, baltimore, detroit etc



Beats the parking lot of Meadowlands.


Wonder how much the roof of one of those rowhouses will rent for.

Edited by tifosi, 25 October 2011 - 21:47.


#493 August

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 21:46

The Tilke elevation drawing from @F1grid on twitter:

Posted Image



Here's the full map directly from Tilke's desk (I like the label option 1 - I wish I could see option 2, etc.)

Posted Image


The turn two is different in elevation drawing than in the other map. In press conference they showed the layout that's in elevation drawing. The elevaton draving seems to be Tilke's company's, India's and Austin's drawings look similar, but also the other map is Tilke's. :drunk: Anyway, to avoid Korea's pit wxits problems, now the pitlane seems to go round the runoff and join the track before T2, at least in the big map.

#494 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 21:47

I'm still skeptical because of the sanction fee, but how funny will it be if F1 gets to NYC before NASCAR does.

#495 fieraku

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 21:53

Look at how cars start?

Currently in the clock wise track cars will align its nose looking towards south, meaning that the TV will show Harlem direction, motly covered by stands so see none of Manhattan. I say to rotate the grand stand 90 degrees and rotate anti clock wise so that the cars start with the background of Mid Manhattan.

:rolleyes: Who gives a sh**? Any NYC background is 100 times better than a Korean swamp anyway.

I only wish for a cracking racetrack>street circuit,nothing else!

#496 slmk

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:05

Two US races of course creates competition between venues but USA is a big country, so two races isn't IMO a problem. For some US people the cheapest option may be to go to Montreal, so there's competition between three venues. It's true that corporates probably go to New Jersey, and that's why going to Texas was a mistake. I think it would've been best for F1 to go to Long Beach. Grand Prix of Long Beach is a classic event close to LA and I think west coast corporates would've gone there. A problem might have been that IndyCar would've been bigger thing at Long Beach and I don't think their organizers would've liked to abandon IndyCar for less popular F1. So, after Long Beach I think circuit close to NY is the best place for F1. It has potential to become a big thing. But Austin, I think it'd be better to have another US race on west coast than in Texas but anyway I think it's good to have two US races.


Texas has a lot of Fortune 500 HQs (Dallas, Houston, Austin, San Antonio), and proximity to Mexico and Latin America... so getting to stands filled up won't be a problem at all.

Edited by slmk, 25 October 2011 - 22:06.


#497 August

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:08

Texas has a lot of Fortune 500 HQs (Dallas, Houston, Austin, San Antonio), and proximity to Mexico and Latin America... so getting to stands filled up won't be a problem at all.


And Mexico is eying for a race. So, goodbye to Mexican fans.

#498 Les

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:09

You want to get rid of Circuit of the Americas? I don't understand your post.

Circuit of the Americas looks like being Tilke's best track EVER!


Yeah to me the size of the USA & the size of the market over there makes sense to have two races there. Certainly much more than two in Spain. I just wish it was called the US Grand Prix East for old times sake!

#499 One

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:15

The turn two is different in elevation drawing than in the other map. In press conference they showed the layout that's in elevation drawing. The elevaton draving seems to be Tilke's company's, India's and Austin's drawings look similar, but also the other map is Tilke's. :drunk: Anyway, to avoid Korea's pit wxits problems, now the pitlane seems to go round the runoff and join the track before T2, at least in the big map.


It is boring isn't it? It should be like this.


Posted Image

The track is Anti Clock wise rotation.

1. pit complex
2. Paddock
3. Grand Stand covered Gold
4. Gold
5. Silver
6. Bronze
Blue commercial section

Oh yes, if you thik that back drop does not matter, think twice about this before you say. Why should Bernie wanted to go to NYC so much? 1. money, 2 money but then... Glamor! If there was no Casio, if there was no tunnel if there was none of swimming pool complex if there was no that blue Mediterranean back drop Formula One would NEVER have been this big. Yes Back drop is extremely important, the photo will circulate the world round and round years to come with F1 in front of NYC ! The start and Checker flag MUST be against Manhattan. What ever you think is not important.

Edited by One, 25 October 2011 - 22:23.


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#500 tifosi

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:21

It is boring isn't it? It should be like this.


You just took out PF Changs!

A lot of those red lines you drew go through all kinds of stuff. None of it drivable.

Those views of Harlem you are so worried about are actually the Upper West Side, Riverside Park and Columbia University. And for good measure the GW bridge.

Some rather stunning shots.

Edited by tifosi, 25 October 2011 - 22:24.