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New Jersey GP? [merged]


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#501 slmk

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:22

And Mexico is eying for a race. So, goodbye to Mexican fans.


Mexico is still years away from a GP, unless a guy like Slim gets involved. Besides, it's not really a problem. I don't think Southwest/Southern USA will have a problem attracting people to an F1 race. It's got a huge, growing population.

I definitely think North America can have 4 GPs/year. After all, it's a 400+m people, and forecasted to grow further this century (USA will be 400m by 2050, Mexico will continue to grow and develop). I think we've reached (or we are about to reach) a point an equilibrium point of 20 GPs/season, with around half of them in Europe and the other half outside, split between Asia and North America. You just can't pass up North America's marketing potential but you also can't pass up South America and Asia's growth.

Ecclestone plays it smartly, gives USA a second GP and prepares for a bidding war once Mexico's got a firm GP proposal in place. Anyway... we will see what the future holds, but, as I said, I don't think you have will trouble filling up stands in Austin. It's a fast growing city with Fortune 500/1000 companies and a hot bed for IT ($$). Indianapolis is in the middle of nowhere and had no trouble attracting 200,000 spectators. It will be the same for Austin.



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#502 One

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:24

You just took out PF Changs!

A lot of those red lines you drew go through all kinds of stuff. None of it drivable.


If you know it, then fix it.

#503 jeze

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:24

Nice, TSA patdowns, CCTV, military, lovely country.

:down:

I assume the NJ taxpayers have to pay for it and that's it a political tool and another meanless street race.

#504 PayasYouRace

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:24

Posted Image


...and we complain about Tilke... I'm glad you don't design circuits for a living.

#505 tifosi

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:25

If you know it, then fix it.


Well, you'd have to tear down a WHOLE lot of homes and business and put in all new streets.

#506 One

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:25

...and we complain about Tilke... I'm glad you don't design circuits for a living.


I C.

You must be right. Would you please elaborate it?

Edited by One, 25 October 2011 - 22:26.


#507 One

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:26

Well, you'd have to tear down a WHOLE lot of homes and business and put in all new streets.


Not really. Could you point them out?

#508 fieraku

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:28

Texas has a lot of Fortune 500 HQs (Dallas, Houston, Austin, San Antonio), and proximity to Mexico and Latin America... so getting to stands filled up won't be a problem at all.


Austin GP should be like a home race for Checo Perez,there's an estimated 9-10 million latino/hispanic residents in Texas alone. The race in Texas will sell out in 24 hours,guaranteed!

#509 PayasYouRace

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:30

I C.

You must be right. Would you please elaborate it?


OK.

The chicane thing after the hairpin at far right. Followed by a rather uninspiring 90 degree corner. Then after the next wiggle between the grandstands another hairpin. An impossibly short pit straight leading into a crazy tight reverse hairpin thing.

Not to mention tifosi's objections. You'd have to level half the area to do that. If you were going to do that, at least try to leave out the silly hairpins and chicanes.

Edit: I did just notice that you've made it anticlockwise. Not that that changes much.

Edited by PayasYouRace, 25 October 2011 - 22:45.


#510 tifosi

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:31

Not really. Could you point them out?



Well, for instance, that whole little triangle area you drew off the straight???? None of that is roads or anything approaching roads. You just drew a red line.

The area where you drew the little bump around the hairpin, would have cars bounding over the sidewalk into someones front yard.

#511 midgrid

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:35

It is boring isn't it? It should be like this.


Please, no fiddly little corners for the sake of it. There should be an axiom like Occam's Razor that applies to circuit design.


#512 Richard T

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:43

Did something quick with a plan for an Manhattan GP in Central Park...

http://www.scribblem...view/2tUO1fxiGY

Doubt it will ever happen....

#513 tifosi

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:46

Did something quick with a plan for an Manhattan GP in Central Park...

http://www.scribblem...view/2tUO1fxiGY

Doubt it will ever happen....



It would be awesome, but I've been on those roads. Not sure they could handle an F1 car. Maybe an awesome cart race.

#514 Sakae

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:47

"People from the whole world will come to New Jersey to see this unique and exciting course," (Gov) Christie added.

Hmm, all clear. My backyard is still more exciting than your F1... :D


#515 Richard T

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:48

It would be awesome, but I've been on those roads. Not sure they could handle an F1 car. Maybe an awesome cart race.


Thank you =) But OK, I havn't been there, im just dreaming!!
Yes, a kart race on a 4,3 km track :D

#516 engel

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:49

Did something quick with a plan for an Manhattan GP in Central Park...

http://www.scribblem...view/2tUO1fxiGY

Doubt it will ever happen....


It can't, physically

#517 jhodges

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:50

It is boring isn't it? It should be like this.


Posted Image

3. Grand Stand covered Gold


Trolling trolls will troll.



But seriously, I have no idea how this could ever happen without public funding. Track looks decent enough, but do we really need another snorefest like Valencia and Singapore?

#518 917k

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:50

Not really. Could you point them out?



Could you just shut up for awhile? You are really sounding quite ridiculous, as though Ecclestone has some how raided your piggy-bank to finance this race.

Edited by 917k, 25 October 2011 - 22:51.


#519 SpaMaster

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:50

F1 races are supposed to happen in tracks, not streets. One Monaco is enough. I don't think this is a good trend at all with regard to safety. Besides the street races are boring. This Jersey race has little to do with racing, more to do with business. F1 should not really be happening in the streets.

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#520 Richard T

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:51

It can't, physically


I see what you mean, my proposed start/finish straight needs to be raised a few yards! ;)

#521 One

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:53

OK.

The chicane thing after the hairpin at far right. Followed by a rather uninspiring 90 degree corner. Then after the next wiggle between the grandstands another hairpin. An impossibly short pit straight leading into a crazy tight reverse hairpin thing.

Not to mention tifosi's objections. You'd have to level half the area to do that. If you were going to do that, at least try to leave out the silly hairpins and chicanes.

Edit: I did just notice that you've made it anticlockwise. Not that that changes much.


I thank you very much for this comments. I think your opinion i right if I wanted this track to be CLOCK WISE. ON the contrary my intention, or opinion, is to make the track run in Contra Clock Wise.

As a result the sequence of track's corner is exactly the opposite of your reading. Could you please do me a favor to look at my statement once more?

I hope to create back drop of Mid Town Manhattan everywhere, especially behind the start Checker line and so on..

#522 One

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:56

Well, for instance, that whole little triangle area you drew off the straight???? None of that is roads or anything approaching roads. You just drew a red line.

The area where you drew the little bump around the hairpin, would have cars bounding over the sidewalk into someones front yard.


If I think of F1 track costing that much Billions, changing a corner or two like you described is a peanuts. No big deal it will be done.

none says that the road as is is heavy or wide enough to host GP. I rather take this in mind that all track will be made wider i some extent, changes are inevitable anyways.

#523 engel

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:57

I see what you mean, my proposed start/finish straight needs to be raised a few yards! ;)


yup :) plus ... this is East Drive for example :)

Posted Image

#524 fieraku

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 23:00

"People from the whole world will come to New Jersey to see this unique and exciting course," (Gov) Christie added.

Hmm, all clear. My backyard is still more exciting than your F1... :D

I highly doubt 47 million people visit your backyard every year. The track is an apple throw away from the "Big Apple".

The New Jersey race at Port Imperial, a ferry terminal, is just across the Hudson River from Manhattan. The effort is one of several that have tried to place an F1 race in the New York City area this past decade, and this one appears to have succeeded largely because of Hindery's New York connections. Also key is the cooperation of the mayors of Weehawken and West New York, N.J.--the two cities geographically involved in the 3.2-mile street-circuit's layout.


Think before you post.

#525 One

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 23:01

Trolling trolls will troll.



WOE should you describe my post as Trolling? I love the idea of NYC GP, so far that I felt urge to correct what is obviously not done yet. Needless to say in details there are shortcomings, but I wish to make points in big line. Curvature, radius, camber all sorts of things are not too important from my point of view. the track must anchor NYC like Monaco does. Otherwise guys there will quickly hate the event. On the contrary if they find a use the will be held there for a century to come. Just my oblique passion, but certainly not trolling.

#526 One

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 23:03

Please, no fiddly little corners for the sake of it. There should be an axiom like Occam's Razor that applies to circuit design.


These Fiddly Little Corners you describe can be find most in hill side of the track on JFKblv especially.

#527 August

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 23:05

Did something quick with a plan for an Manhattan GP in Central Park...

http://www.scribblem...view/2tUO1fxiGY

Doubt it will ever happen....


GP in Manhattan would be even better than this, but closing roads for F1 in Manhattan probably wouldn't happen. But this is a great chance to get NY's corporate people to an F1 race. Yet, I would've preferred an Alber Park on Montreal like "park" street circuit, but this looks better than Valencia or Singapore, this looks a more like Monaco.

#528 One

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 23:06

Could you just shut up for awhile? You are really sounding quite ridiculous, as though Ecclestone has some how raided your piggy-bank to finance this race.


I will take your advise and go to bed. Sleep well guys. Ciao for now.

#529 OSX

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 23:47

Mixed Reaction Following New Jersey Announcement
25 October 2011

While Formula 1 United States chairman Tavo Hellmund was quick to congratulate the New Jersey F1 announcement, Leo Hindery, the driving force behind the new event, isn't as enthusiastic about Austin.

In a brief statement issued following tonight's press conference at which it was confirmed that Port Imperial in Weehawken will host the Grand Prix of America from 2013, Hellmund offered his congratulations to the New Jersey team.

"I want to extend my congratulations to Leo and his team, as I know how much work they have put into making this happen," he said. "When I walked the site a few years ago, the site's potential was obvious.

"I am excited for the East Coast and feel Tuesday's announcement is yet another acknowledgement of the viability, fan interest, economic benefits and prestige an F1 Grand Prix event brings to a region," her continued. "New Jersey and Texas, nearly 2,000 miles apart, offer unique and very different fan experiences destined to not only raise the visibility of the sport in this country, but also increase the global attraction and US support of these world-class events. These two regions are going to be terrific backdrops for the world's most advanced form of racing."

However, Hindery, managing partner of InterMedia Partners, a New York-based media industry private equity fund, and until 2004, chairman and CEO of The YES Network, the nation's largest regional sports network which he founded in 2001, was keen to focus on the fact that public is being used in Austin, referring to the $25m annual state subsidy.

"From the start we've said that we'd pay for the privilege, without public expenditure," he said, according to the New York Times. He was also critical of the fact that Austin required a purpose built track whilst Weehawken can use existing streets.

"There's not a yard of dirt being moved," he said. "We're pennies on the dollar compared to Austin."

Indeed, Hindery, a keen race fan, who has competed at Le Mans on a number of occasions and also contested the American Le Mans Series and Grand-Am Rolex Sports Car Series, and is considered to be one of the driving forces behind the New Jersey venture is sceptical that Austin will happen.

"I wouldn't bet on Austin making it," he said.

http://www.pitpass.c...es_art_id=45044


#530 King Six

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 23:52

Pic of the plan, from Tilke.

http://s3.amazonaws......AfPZ9FUVw4uo=

These ****ing Marina/Riverside call it what you want street circuits piss me off, I mean for **** sake, they're all terrible. Valencia, Singapore, Abu Dhabi. Come on, I see nothing interesting about this track. They can never be like Monaco because Monaco is technically illegal by FIA standards and has its history to keep itself there. They'll have massive Iraqi Green Zone concrete slabs that remove any semblance of New Jersey and just make the entire thing look like concrete. Modern street circuits have no place in motorsports let alone F1 because the health and safety strangles it to death, so enough of this life support.

They have the gall to take pot shots at the Austin circuit but at least it's a real god damn circuit, man **** street circuits.

Edited by King Six, 25 October 2011 - 23:54.


#531 engel

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 23:59

the selling point is the proximity to Manhattan, hence the riverside location. It's basically a NYC grand prix to all intents and purposes just ... cross the river on the Jersey side. If they found an empty lot outside Trenton and built a track there they 'd lose the major selling point of the race. Keep in mind that lots of people have been complaining about the endless sandpits that are most of the F1 tracks, that was seen as the big letdown, that the surroundings lacked visual appeal. So I can't really blame them for trying to at least mix in some interesting vistas.

Edited by engel, 25 October 2011 - 23:59.


#532 StefK

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 00:13

http://jalopnik.com/...al-track-layout

not sure if this has been posted before.

I don't like it much.

#533 slmk

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 00:19

Pic of the plan, from Tilke.

http://s3.amazonaws......AfPZ9FUVw4uo=

These ****ing Marina/Riverside call it what you want street circuits piss me off, I mean for **** sake, they're all terrible. Valencia, Singapore, Abu Dhabi. Come on, I see nothing interesting about this track. They can never be like Monaco because Monaco is technically illegal by FIA standards and has its history to keep itself there. They'll have massive Iraqi Green Zone concrete slabs that remove any semblance of New Jersey and just make the entire thing look like concrete. Modern street circuits have no place in motorsports let alone F1 because the health and safety strangles it to death, so enough of this life support.

They have the gall to take pot shots at the Austin circuit but at least it's a real god damn circuit, man **** street circuits.


Elevation change? Overtaking spots? Fast and slow corners, tight and twisty.

Come on... you're way too hard to please.

#534 Sakae

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 00:21

QUOTE The New Jersey race at Port Imperial, a ferry terminal, is just across the Hudson River from Manhattan. The effort is one of several that have tried to place an F1 race in the New York City area this past decade, and this one appears to have succeeded largely because of Hindery's New York connections. Also key is the cooperation of the mayors of Weehawken and West New York, N.J.--the two cities geographically involved in the 3.2-mile street-circuit's layout.


Think before you post.

Ehmm, this is not my post; check it out

#535 pje1

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 01:34

Posted Image
Posted Image

#536 404KF2

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 02:04

It's not April 1st yet is it?

#537 SKL

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 02:15

Just watched a tape of the press conference and the track layout actually looks pretty good to me. Hope it's a success, love to see Christie throw the checkered flag...


Just looked at map of the place- this must be near where Sully landed that plane on the Hudson??

Edited by SKL, 26 October 2011 - 02:23.


#538 pje1

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 02:45

Someone drove the course and put it on you tube , here it is


#539 senna da silva

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 03:05

Fantastic news, one more reason to never have to go to Quebec again!

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#540 pje1

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 03:55

Here is a better video of the proposed course



#541 loki

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 04:51

Here is a better video of the proposed course


That was pretty realistic. It even had a BWM stopping on circuit for no apparent reason... :rotfl: :wave:


#542 Dmitriy_Guller

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 05:16

That uphill road from Port Imperial Boulevard would be something in an F1 car. It's exciting enough when going at 30 mph (although it's way more exciting downhill than uphill).

#543 August

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 05:55

Here's larger circuit map.

http://joesaward.fil...0/tilke-map.jpg

#544 redbarron

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 06:16

The put F1 tracks anywhere these days don't they. Not long until a race goes through my suburb!

#545 Timstr11

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 06:21

Lots of long straights/high speed bends, so very high speed. No run-offs. Very dangerous track in my opinion.

#546 nbhb

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 07:19

Good news. :up: And I like the circuit...

Edited by nbhb, 26 October 2011 - 07:19.


#547 One

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 07:34

Pic of the plan, from Tilke.

http://s3.amazonaws......AfPZ9FUVw4uo=

These ****ing Marina/Riverside call it what you want street circuits piss me off, I mean for **** sake, they're all terrible. Valencia, Singapore, Abu Dhabi. Come on, I see nothing interesting about this track. They can never be like Monaco because Monaco is technically illegal by FIA standards and has its history to keep itself there. They'll have massive Iraqi Green Zone concrete slabs that remove any semblance of New Jersey and just make the entire thing look like concrete. Modern street circuits have no place in motorsports let alone F1 because the health and safety strangles it to death, so enough of this life support.

They have the gall to take pot shots at the Austin circuit but at least it's a real god damn circuit, man **** street circuits.


Valencia IS a BEAUTIFUL CITY.

DESERT IS IMPRESIVE.

But the new tracks there completely FAILED, I read majority is dissatisfied.

New Jersey IS the same. After One race EVERY ONE complains that it is a missed chance. Sorry, I told you. You must listen to me.

#548 wattoroos

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 07:37

How can anyone judge a track without a race taking place just based on layout. If Albert park or Montreal were put in front of people for the first time tomorrow, the reception would not be as good as what it is now because there is more to a track than just a picture of a layout

#549 One

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 08:13

How can anyone judge a track without a race taking place just based on layout. If Albert park or Montreal were put in front of people for the first time tomorrow, the reception would not be as good as what it is now because there is more to a track than just a picture of a layout


That is the art given for architect.

#550 PayasYouRace

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 08:30

I thank you very much for this comments. I think your opinion i right if I wanted this track to be CLOCK WISE. ON the contrary my intention, or opinion, is to make the track run in Contra Clock Wise.

As a result the sequence of track's corner is exactly the opposite of your reading. Could you please do me a favor to look at my statement once more?

I hope to create back drop of Mid Town Manhattan everywhere, especially behind the start Checker line and so on..


I did. It's a mess of fiddly hairpins and chicanes where fast corners and straights would actually be. The pit straight would be too short and follows a pointless hairpin. Much of what you propose would require leveling of much of the city area. You are obsessed with a backdrop of Manhattan at the expense of a track that might actually be quite good.