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New Jersey GP? [merged]


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#551 PayasYouRace

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 08:36

Here is a better video of the proposed course


This is pretty good. It's like F1 returning to Montjuich, or as I said before, F1's answer to Pau or Macau. This could be a classic circuit.

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#552 FTATRWeSaluteYou

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 08:38

Its not as bad as Las Vegas track.

You never know until they race whether its a good track. Except Abu Dhabi. Everyone knew that was going to be shit.

#553 One

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 08:43

I did. It's a mess of fiddly hairpins and chicanes where fast corners and straights would actually be. The pit straight would be too short and follows a pointless hairpin. Much of what you propose would require leveling of much of the city area. You are obsessed with a backdrop of Manhattan at the expense of a track that might actually be quite good.


From this note of yours I am convinced that your remarks are incorrect.

Hairpin comes before the Grand stand. Then 90 degree right hander kink followed by long straight.


#554 PayasYouRace

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 08:45

From this note of yours I am convinced that your remarks are incorrect.

Hairpin comes before the Grand stand. Then 90 degree right hander kink followed by long straight.


Eh? Pits are what you marked as (1) on your map. That's a really short straight.

Edit: Your track also has at least 3 places where run-off would be impractical or in a couple of places actually has the track itself blocking where runoff would be. At the entrance to that complex with the grandstands and at the far right.

Edited by PayasYouRace, 26 October 2011 - 08:49.


#555 One

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 08:51

Eh? Pits are what you marked as (1) on your map. That's a really short straight.

Edit: Your track also has at least 3 places where run-off would be impractical or in a couple of places actually has the track itself blocking where runoff would be. At the entrance to that complex with the grandstands and at the far right.


The track is ANTI CLOCK wise rotation. Meaning that the car leave towards Hill, not towards Hudson River from the Grand Stand.

Monaco has small run offs, 130R as well.

Edited by One, 26 October 2011 - 08:52.


#556 PayasYouRace

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 08:55

The track is ANTI CLOCK wise rotation. Meaning that the car leave Hill, not Hudson River from the Grand Stand.

Monaco has small run offs, 130R as well.


Yes. I am following it anticlockwise! It doesn't matter which way it goes, your pit straight is too short. Monaco has small runoffs, but yours would be very impractical if not dangerous.

#557 wj_gibson

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 08:56

The track is ANTI CLOCK wise rotation. Meaning that the car leave towards Hill, not towards Hudson River from the Grand Stand.

Monaco has small run offs, 130R as well.


No, it's going to be clockwise.

#558 engel

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 08:57

The track is ANTI CLOCK wise rotation. Meaning that the car leave towards Hill, not towards Hudson River from the Grand Stand.

Monaco has small run offs, 130R as well.


It's still unworkable, you track runs over peoples' front lawns and houses.

Edited by engel, 26 October 2011 - 08:57.


#559 PayasYouRace

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 08:58

No, it's going to be clockwise.


He was talking about his own insane proposal.

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#560 sawyer_si

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 09:00

The track is ANTI CLOCK wise rotation. Meaning that the car leave towards Hill, not towards Hudson River from the Grand Stand.

Monaco has small run offs, 130R as well.


This is my proposed layout, do you think it's any good? The racing would be awesome, as would be the view of skyscrapers form Eau Rouge

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#561 Don_Humpador

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 09:05

Do we know who designed the track? Was it Horrible Herman or someone else?

#562 PayasYouRace

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 09:06

Do we know who designed the track? Was it Horrible Herman or someone else?


It was designed by Tilke, as has been mentioned a hundred times already.


Sorry I'm in a bit of a mood this morning.

#563 engel

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 09:06

Do we know who designed the track? Was it Horrible Herman or someone else?


Nobody really designed it, it's public roads, but yea Tilke will do the support infrastructure

#564 Don_Humpador

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 09:07

It was designed by Tilke, as has been mentioned a hundred times already.


Sorry I'm in a bit of a mood this morning.

No problem - but I really couldn't be bothered to go through a lot of nonsense to get the answer.

Thanks anyways. :up:

#565 PayasYouRace

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 09:21

No problem - but I really couldn't be bothered to go through a lot of nonsense to get the answer.

Thanks anyways. :up:


No problem. :up: I suggest you look at these posts:


Here's larger circuit map.

http://joesaward.fil...0/tilke-map.jpg


and

Here is a better video of the proposed course



#566 Peat

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 09:44

I think it looks ok. It's got a 'natural' street circuit feel to it unlike Valencia.

The only issue i can see after a quick look is the run-off at the end of the fast downhill sweep doesn't look alot!

#567 Henrik B

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 09:54

This is my proposed layout, do you think it's any good?


OK, I don't normally do smilies, but: :rotfl:

#568 Force Ten

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 09:58

This is my proposed layout, do you think it's any good? The racing would be awesome, as would be the view of skyscrapers form Eau Rouge

Posted Image

Yeah, I think they should go with this one!

#569 Sakae

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 10:00

Here is a better video of the proposed course

Oh my lord, Bernie must be making really good money to sign for this. FOTA must be impotent to stop it. Now, a trip through 5th Avenue would be something else, but, but, but I assure you... wises decisions? No kidding. :D

What this race has to do with alleged prestige of F1 is not entirely clear to me. I would be suprised to see more than one race there, and on whose expenses is also not clear. (Valencia)?

#570 August

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 10:39

Nobody really designed it, it's public roads, but yea Tilke will do the support infrastructure


Does anybody know whether it was Tilke who decided the layout, or will Tilke desing only the pits and paddock?

#571 Tsarwash

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 10:41

If they were to race through Central Manhatten or any of the other places immediately surrounded by skyscrapers, then camera angles and aerial shots would be a large problem, as would grandstands, and stopping half a million people watching the race from office windows and such for free. Plus the cost of closing down such an important trade area for a week or so would be very large.

#572 Tsarwash

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 10:58

Wtf is wrong with you? It's a Formula 1 race. The skyline is way down the list of priorities. It's a bonus, nothing more.

I actually think that the views across the river are going to be an important part of this race, but I'm certain that the TV crew shall be fully able to incorporate some great views into the coverage. I don't mind the track, although it does look a little dangerous in places from initial glances. I like the elevation changes and the long straights, but the location leaves a lot to be desired.


#573 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 11:13

Wow, this is big news! Would have thought the opportunities for street tracks in F1 would be on the decrease due to safety concerns but with the introduction of Valencia and now these plans that seems not to be the trend. I imagine Bernie really wants to see an F1 race in New York before he conks it. A lasting legacy.

I've looked into the areas of Weehawken on Google Streetview and can see straight away why this area is chosen, from JFK boulevard the views of the Manhattan Island skyline are absolutely stunning from the viewpoints. The next best thing to having the race in Manhattan itself it seems. Guessing it's alot cheaper logistically to have it here too. A lot of these streets and intersections remind me of the residential areas in GTA5, feels like I've roamed them already!

I've put together a 3.2 mile track around the proposed areas:

http://g.co/maps/a68mm

Maybe using more of the 'freeway' flyovers in the are would be useful. Goes near Juan Pablo park :D No idea if all these roads are suitable but most of them seem wide enough for grandstands, fences, barriers etc. At least as safe as Monaco anyway which itself is debatable. Some of the roads are tree lined residential though, probably not F1 suitable. Thinking that port Imperial road could be a good place for a pit building and pit lane but may require the rail line to be shut down for the week. Maybe could be used to transport pit gear?! Don't know how busy this line is.

Interested to see the proposed layout.

EDIT: Just saw the posted Tilke layouts. I should really read threads before posting in them :stoned: At least I was right about the pit area in the Port. Look's pretty good! Love tracks that follow organic road layouts rather than something drawn with a ruler and compass. Makes learning the track trickier and more interesting. Adds character.

Tilke's layout on google maps if you want to check the views of corners (or skyline!) http://g.co/maps/u4pcz

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 26 October 2011 - 12:23.


#574 Peppe

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 11:59

If they were to race through Central Manhatten or any of the other places immediately surrounded by skyscrapers, then camera angles and aerial shots would be a large problem, as would grandstands, and stopping half a million people watching the race from office windows and such for free. Plus the cost of closing down such an important trade area for a week or so would be very large.

And the track would only be consisting of 90-degree corners.

#575 One

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 12:27

And the track would only be consisting of 90-degree corners.


You have Big apple and many other non 90 degree corners in manhattan. But cost to insure any damages caused by race, closure of any sorts will literally kill the rest of the world.


#576 Red17

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 12:29

Herman Tilke.... :mad:

I hope the layout produces some good racing, could care less that there are skycrapers in the horizon, we will only see them at the start and end of the race.
Ironic that Formula 1 is coming close to the city that names the State of Watkins Glen, but staying out. Im sure someone will remeber to link up the Glen to this race. Tho not exactly the same kind of track but will be good for the young people to see that americans had a good share of Formula 1 back in the day and that was only the 1990's that ruined the whole thing. Formula 1 already raced in a parking lot at Vegas, made Turn 2 and 1 and Indy in reverse, so excentric and america combine a lot.

Congratulations Bernie, not exactly New York City, but close enough. How long did it took? 30 years? I remember seeing a proposed NY GP in a 1985 «F1 Special» and it was already an «old idea of Bernie».

I dont see the fuss exactly about 2 GP's in the US, the place is big enough and many states do have an identity of their own. I also think that since Bernie is pushing in the US again why not see if anyone in the West Coast is interested.

#577 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 12:43

could care less that there are skycrapers in the horizon


So you do care for the skyscrapers?

I can accept changes to spelling (colour > color) as it is pronounced the same but when you change the structure of a sentence so that it then has the opposite meaning (the correct sentence is I could NOT care less) I get really angry! :lol:

#578 PayasYouRace

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 12:44

I think the foundations have been laid to echo what was probably F1's golden age in the USA. Back when Watkins Glen and Long Beach were the regular races on the calendar. Texas could be the new Glen, a spectacular road course, and New Jersey could be the new Long Beach, new and interesting street course.

#579 Sakae

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 12:51

Herman Tilke.... :mad:


I didn't know that Mr. Tilke build NJ to be mad at him for that, but hey, whatever pleases you.

At best, I think he was given certain topological area to work with, and that would be end of his influence on beauty of that place. He probably also serves as an consultant to the promoter on FiA' technical requirements (I am guessing).

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#580 BrokenBaculum

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 13:03

On first glance I'm really impressed with this circuit. It seems both compact yet lengthy at the same time, albeit most of the lap would be full throttle, through that super-cool canopy section at the north of the circuit.

If this really goes ahead (note Donington), then I'll be properly impressed. Just hope the locals won't be bitches about it.

#581 maximilian

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 13:11

This COULD have the makings of a new classic. The track seems to have a real nice flow to it, since Tilke couldn't screw it up given the existing layout restrictions - I really think that helps the flow of the circuit immensely, as we don't get the usual stupid geometrical apexes and slow corner clusterfrack that Tilke tracks have become known for. The backdrop should be spectacular, and the accessibility and atmosphere near/in the city that never sleeps should be superb. You get waterfront and tree canopies.

Yes, now what can foil it all is any local resident resistance. If the taxpayers are asked to pick up huge tabs, then it would certainly be understandable. I wonder what it must be like to live in one of those average apartment buildings for years and years, and suddenly one day a Grand Prix comes right before your doorstep! Madness! :lol:



#582 fieraku

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 13:22

This is my proposed layout, do you think it's any good? The racing would be awesome, as would be the view of skyscrapers form Eau Rouge

Posted Image

:lol:
What's that a 15 mile track? I got a better idea,why not a New York to Boston race? The distance is about right,with one pitstop along the way. It could be a cracker.

#583 jaisli

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 13:28

:lol:
What's that a 15 mile track?


Looks about 4.3 miles. :)


#584 engel

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 13:30

:lol:
What's that a 15 mile track? I got a better idea,why not a New York to Boston race? The distance is about right,with one pitstop along the way. It could be a cracker.


That's Spa overlayed on a map of NJ :S

#585 Fastcake

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 13:38

That's Spa overlayed on a map of NJ :S


It doesn't look like the same scale though  ;)

#586 Wi000

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 13:51

That's Spa overlayed on a map of NJ :S

LOL I knew there would be one to completely miss the point :rotfl:

#587 fieraku

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 13:55

Looks about 4.3 miles. :)


That track covers about 50 blocks one way and 30 the other. Looks more to me.

And I know it's Spa just on a bigger scale,I guess the humor of my post was lost.

#588 August

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 13:57

I wonder what it must be like to live in one of those average apartment buildings for years and years, and suddenly one day a Grand Prix comes right before your doorstep! Madness! :lol:


In fact the condos next to Hudson have been build in the chage of the millenium. Here's what the area looked like in 1995.

Posted Image

#589 One

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 14:01

In fact the condos next to Hudson have been build in the chage of the millenium. Here's what the area looked like in 1995.

Posted Image


interesting.

After Korea miserably failing to met the initial concept put by whom I do not know, that a city will be built around the race track, I got thi Huge trust and belief in Formula One becoming the new models of Urban Development. Great success,... :rotfl:

#590 Sakae

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 14:02

:lol:
What's that a 15 mile track? I got a better idea,why not a New York to Boston race? The distance is about right,with one pitstop along the way. It could be a cracker.

Yeah, when you get a blown tire as you pass the pit exit, you might just as well park it, because you aren't going to make into pits on three wheels. I wonder if surface is any better than potholes of Detroit?

#591 One

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 15:00

This is my proposed layout, do you think it's any good? The racing would be awesome, as would be the view of skyscrapers form Eau Rouge

Posted Image


This must have been the joke, but tell exactly what is wrong with current race tracks.

Monaco or any other road tracks are NOT there to race cars. Race fitted its rout onto a pattern of a city. So Cars runs impossible corners.
Spa or other old school mountain courses are track where roads are fitted into a mountain, which obviously was not designed to fit race tracks on. cars are negotiating the impossible conditions.
Now modern track the like so Suzika was designed as the test track to check performance of a new car. it was designed purposely to give tests to car's capacity. Cars negotiate its impossible conditions to run fast.

Then how about recent tracks? They are designed to race, make over taking possible, make wonderful flow possible, it is all about making the car's driving easier.

now if you wan to create NYC GP in New Jersey, a greatest track of all, then do everything you can to make the track impossible to drive. I would start from Anti Clock wise rotation, as Suzuka like 8 figure is not possible here. Besides, make sure to implement all sort of corners which experts' say that it is impossible to drive, but do it so that it creates beautiful driving experiences. can you do it. Tilke"s tracks seemingly failed big time in understanding this.

You can ask this question. if you have a great sport race car with good team of mechanics available each week end. where would you go to drive every week end? To a nice gentle road or mountain like the one in Rumania or in Switzerland where sequences of un thinkable corners are following one after the other?
I think that Kimi said very interesting thing recently. Beating Loeb is much more difficult than beating Vettel, because Loeb knows how to negotiate infinite numbers of complex sequences of in all sort of road conditions.

Grave stone is closer than we think! :)

#592 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 15:02

WHO CARES IF THE TRACK IS CLOCKWISE

#593 sawyer_si

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 15:12


That "layout" was meant to show you that you can't just draw any track you like in a city. Your layout is running over buildings and out of roads, which obviously can't be done, just like you can't copy Spa... Yet you keep ignoring that fact.


And apologies to everyone for wrong scale, it was done in 5 minutes just to make a point, I was never serious at all :D

#594 mursuka80

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 15:16

Looks great and hopefully this event will push Valencia off the calendar.

#595 tifosi

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 15:21

WHO CARES IF THE TRACK IS CLOCKWISE


Evidently, it is massively importnat to have the Empire State Building in EVERY single shot.

#596 One

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 15:22

WHO CARES IF THE TRACK IS CLOCKWISE


IMHO you should if you are to create great racing track. Perhaps you mean to say who cares if I shout for Anti Clock wise rotation? Then I rather not appreciate your comments but do understand your statement can be a valid one for you.

Some one must take great care to detail if this person were to get involved in a running a project. Do not underestimate the details, while keeping good eyes open for picking up BIG idea on the way.

#597 One

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 15:26

That "layout" was meant to show you that you can't just draw any track you like in a city. Your layout is running over buildings and out of roads, which obviously can't be done, just like you can't copy Spa... Yet you keep ignoring that fact.


And apologies to everyone for wrong scale, it was done in 5 minutes just to make a point, I was never serious at all :D


rightly so, Too silly not to mention in my post that I understand your humor. I cld have come out laughing rather than crying due to your sympathy. i assume you have ever confronted a trick or two in design.

BTW I have to tell you this. First you need something impossible concept to achieve Huge Goal. if you mind only about small this and that that gives you disadvantages you will never achieve it. In a a way Tike's track is a good example of those. Both India and Valencia are copy of Kyalami, but the result id far from overwhelming the original. copycat does not work. We should be wise enough.

Edited by One, 26 October 2011 - 15:28.


#598 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 15:28

IMHO you should if you are to create great racing track. Perhaps you mean to say who cares if I shout for Anti Clock wise rotation? Then I rather not appreciate your comments but do understand your statement can be a valid one for you.

Some one must take great care to detail if this person were to get involved in a running a project. Do not underestimate the details, while keeping good eyes open for picking up BIG idea on the way.


Whether a track is clockwise or anti-clockwise doesn't matter. All that matters is the corners.

#599 One

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 15:30

Whether a track is clockwise or anti-clockwise doesn't matter. All that matters is the corners.


Wrong, big time.

every topological condition and land has actual dimensions that defines the character of turns. Apparently for example. turning 90 degree corners can diversly different in terms of easiness, in times of a day, if you turning into sun or not. the real condition is a lot more complex.

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#600 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 15:31

If Suzuka was run opposite, not reverse but mirrored, it'd still be the same track.