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New Jersey GP? [merged]


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#651 PretentiousBread

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 13:28

For some, I'm sure. Others will be thrilled with having a race outside their front door. Goodness knows, I would. But I personally suspect, a large percentage of those people, particularly the ones in the single family homes along JFK Blvd, who have lived there for many years, will see this whole thing as the single most distasteful, disruptive, repulsive event in their lives, since 9/11. I have employees who live in Union City, although not along the proposed route. And they're constantly complaining about what they put up with in town hall meetings. These are the kind of people that would fight tooth and nail against having a block party or a road sign put in the ground or the alternate side of the street parking rules changed or cause a massive uproar if the garbage was picked up on a Tuesday instead of a Wednesday. I can't imagine they're just going to sit back and enjoy it. The culture on this side of the Hudson is not as bad as it is in Manhattan. And it changes the farther removed one is from the city. But there are still a lot of people from that area who don't share the whole car-love-obsession that the rest of America does. Having their streets cordoned off for 3~4 days is bad enough. But the idea of a sanctioned race with extremely noisy cars going down their front street at >300 kmh could quite possibly be the worst thing they could ever imagine.

That said, the governor and the mayors of Weekhawken and West New York have come out publicly, in favor of this race, so there's already a giant political force setting this in motion. It's completely the opposite of the Liberty State Park effort, where a bunch of Nimbys' got the jump on things before the proposal really took off.

All I'm saying is, I don't expect this to be a smooth ride from now until June 2013.


Is that you , jjaisli, from GTPlanet? Shaggy here.

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#652 jaisli

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 13:34

It's me. Small circles. :wave:

#653 fieraku

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 13:41

That hill top before the bridge looks like a good spot to take some aerial pictures and catch some action. Any locals with more info on that?
There is some sort of building up there as well.

#654 King Six

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 15:38



Better video :)

I'm happy for the fans that live nearby, and that view is breathtaking but never underestimate Formula One's ability to make a local area look like shit with its ****ing concrete walls and barriers and practically everything, the track will bear little resemblance if any to that video. Only Monaco IMO bears some resemblance to the regular roads.

Singapore doesn't help because it's darkness so you can't see anything except the track anyway

And I never thought the East River was so wide, Manhattan looks to be miles away

Edited by King Six, 27 October 2011 - 15:39.


#655 discover23

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 15:46

The east river is not that wide but the one you are looking at is not the east river but the hudson river.
East river is what separates Manhattan from Queens/Brooklyn and the rest of LI. On the other side we have the Hudson river between Manhattan and New Jersey.


#656 red stick

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 15:47

And I never thought the East River was so wide, Manhattan looks to be miles away


If you're in Jersey, that's the Hudson, which is, famously, wide enough to crash land a jetliner in. The East River is, not surprisingly, east of Manhattan.  ;)

#657 MonzaF1

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 15:53

I am thoroughly intrigued to see how they're going to pull this one off.


Thats for sure. The zoning rights [payoffs? protests?], who will pay for it - Bernie does take 30 year bonds. And New Jersey is bankrupt if I am not mistaken.

And we know what politicians are like.

I will believe it when Bernie declares it - and so far he has said nothing.

#658 King Six

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 15:54

If you're in Jersey, that's the Hudson, which is, famously, wide enough to crash land a jetliner in. The East River is, not surprisingly, east of Manhattan.;)

I knew it was one of those two, 50/50 chance of getting it right and I got it wrong :mad:

Edited by King Six, 27 October 2011 - 15:56.


#659 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 15:56

If you're in Jersey, that's the Hudson, which is, famously, wide enough to crash land a jetliner in. The East River is, not surprisingly, east of Manhattan.  ;)


Imagine if that happened, instead of in 2009, during the F1 race.

"And we have...uh...a plane off in the background..."

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#660 One

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 19:46

let me help you out. See those condos behind the Pepsi truck? You want to tear them down to reprofile the turn at the far right of the track. Reality is that's the road and there is no alternative to it end of story and the same applies all along the "changes" you have highlighted in your version.

Posted Image


Let me help you out, also. the red line was too think. the track should be as narrow as it is currently.

#661 Disgrace

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 19:49

I will believe it when Bernie declares it


Like Donington?

#662 August

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 20:12

Posted Image


Are you Mr. Tilke as you like to place a chicane before a hairpin?

#663 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 20:15

That's after the hairpin. But it's still a bad idea.

#664 August

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 20:17

But One's great idea was to have an anticlockwise lap, for better sights.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Edited by August, 27 October 2011 - 20:26.


#665 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 20:24

Oh that's even more dumb.

But I thought he wanted wrong-way-round because it hurt the neck and sore necks make better racing.

#666 dgsg

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 21:00

I like it.
Would like even more to own one of those apartments or houses right next to the track!


My friends daughter does, guess where I will be staying? :up:

#667 One

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 21:59

Oh that's even more dumb.

But I thought he wanted wrong-way-round because it hurt the neck and sore necks make better racing.

:up: Thanx. I appreciate that you saw me there.


But One's great idea was to have an anticlockwise lap, for better sights.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image


@August, are you professionals involved in the formula one? If so, I understand your point. If not, how about making your self a track and show debate, be nakid about your love for sport? Stay on a safe side? thatis great, but this is not the game on the track, isn't it? :lol:

#668 August

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 22:28

@August, are you professionals involved in the formula one? If so, I understand your point. If not, how about making your self a track and show debate, be nakid about your love for sport? Stay on a safe side? thatis great, but this is not the game on the track, isn't it? :lol:


I think the official layout looks great and, unlike yours, possible. Anticlockwise circuit wouldn't be possible, no-runoff turn from downhill of Pershing Rd. to bridge would be too dangerous. Besides, the turns you added on the lower section are just meaningless, IMO. First of all, they be impossible to accomodate, and secondly, they'd destroy best overtaking spot. At least at this moment I couldn't imagine any better circuit to that area than the official layout. But yes, for the love of sport I've sometimes posted here my own layout improvement ideas.

Yas Marina:
Layout 1
Layout 2

Valencia

Buenos Aires:
Layout 1
Layout 2

But really, before I see racing in NJ, I wouldn't change the circuit.

Edited by August, 27 October 2011 - 22:30.


#669 Tsarwash

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 22:36

No, shut up everybody. I've got the best plan for the race. they go off a ramp and under the Hudson River and emerge in Manhatten. Unless you are a pro working for Tilke, then you have no right or ability to criticise my plan, ok ? :rotfl:

#670 SeanValen

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 22:37

I am definately going to New York in 2013. awsome news,.




#671 Dmitriy_Guller

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 23:29

For this track to be like Monaco, they'll have to go through Lincoln Tunnel.

#672 jhodges

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 00:23

WOE should you describe my post as Trolling? I love the idea of NYC GP, so far that I felt urge to correct what is obviously not done yet. Needless to say in details there are shortcomings, but I wish to make points in big line. Curvature, radius, camber all sorts of things are not too important from my point of view. the track must anchor NYC like Monaco does. Otherwise guys there will quickly hate the event. On the contrary if they find a use the will be held there for a century to come. Just my oblique passion, but certainly not trolling.


Sorry. When I saw that horrific track layout revision with no regard for existing infrastructure coupled with the talk about gold covered grandstands I believed you were doing noting but trying to get a rise out of the forum.

I can see now you're completely serious.

#673 jonpollak

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 01:33

I can see now you're completely serious.


Perhaps I can offer that poster a timely redirection?

Jp

#674 One

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 07:49

Sorry. When I saw that horrific track layout revision with no regard for existing infrastructure coupled with the talk about gold covered grandstands I believed you were doing noting but trying to get a rise out of the forum.

I can see now you're completely serious.


I C. I know as well. Speak about Gold, have you been to Spa? I have not been too many other races, but at Spa the race organizer calls the stand position as according to Gold, Silver and s on.

I assume you comment is more or less, say what ever and mess it up, not constructive neither Knowledgeable. :smoking:

Edited by One, 28 October 2011 - 08:08.


#675 One

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 08:06

I think the official layout looks great and, unlike yours, possible. Anticlockwise circuit wouldn't be possible, no-runoff turn from downhill of Pershing Rd. to bridge would be too dangerous. Besides, the turns you added on the lower section are just meaningless, IMO. First of all, they be impossible to accomodate, and secondly, they'd destroy best overtaking spot. At least at this moment I couldn't imagine any better circuit to that area than the official layout. But yes, for the love of sport I've sometimes posted here my own layout improvement ideas.

Yas Marina:
Layout 1
Layout 2

Valencia

Buenos Aires:
Layout 1
Layout 2

But really, before I see racing in NJ, I wouldn't change the circuit.


Hi August,

Thanx for the link. Yes I know you posted some track layout just as others did for those events. I posted an idea or two.
Obviously for New Jersey track the given situation is greatly other than those new track with almost endless budget. I assume that a reason as to why the track MUST be on the public road derives from FOM contract on finance. SPA is a road track as well, but Spa built partly new track, which resulted in the current form. But here in New Jersey the situation must be different in such a way that existing road MUST be used. The two versions revealed with a small differences after the second turn before the bridge, is an enforcement of contractural agreement, I assume. Obviously Tilke made his best effort to convince to alter this corner to bring it to Hudson as close as possible, for which the whoever organiser used his right not to. (My pure assumption) I do not neglect the skill of American advocate to negotiate with that of Bernie's. So given by this frame (that comes from my assumption), it is note worthy, perhaps for you, that I think the best way is to keep my mouth shut and just enjoy whatever comes around.

Besides who is actually having a problem if every single person know that there will be no change made to this track as everything is finalized?
I can only think of souls who loves to see exciting Races. And for this, I can tell you already how it will be like. Marketing will justify the race quality in an identical way as other new tracks have experienced, first year or two teams and drivers praise the track and then there will be a lot of complains like Singapore track. Occasionally teames met to discuss and submitted ther concern on lack of overtaking and blamed the track for it. BMW's initial statement there in Singapore was note worthy in this sense. How do you rate those events yourself? Do you feel your need to show your effort to show alternative tracks in this forum? To me your answer is no and sit and wait till you can complain about it afterwards legitimately. This in itself is a OK manner, but seen the natureof this forum, you could, as i did, activate discussion to pull a influence or two.

My point of showing the track was specifically about New Jersey Track. From what i read I see that you know well that the deal is done already. I can only assume that. Huge logistics on different matters are involved so changing track traces and facility positions are way too expensive things to do. Not only it risks the deal to be vanished. But hey, I come to think that a better track, which is not necessarily mine, can bring the race there in par with Monaco in true sense, isn't it? Luckily it is neither FOM nor Tilke who is complaining about it already. It is just a fan in Europe who is decided to take position in this matter. So No NYC lawyer can complain about it. There is no responsibility in FOM neither Tilke. All they know is that there is stubborn protests to be seen, which says, change it then the place will be truly celebrated.

I insisted on Anti Clock Wise based on this athletic logics, and associate it with view to Manhattan, as those two points seems to me immediately valid without changing track if you take a note that authority will not care about how cars run, in which rotation the car will run, as long as the race is safe (enough). I forced to change other bits that is more for the sake of shock making to enforce my debate. I know my track lay out is far from perfect and full of mistakes and taboos, but this does not mean that Tilke is a god and provided us with the ingenious solutions for which none complained ever. Forum is here to speak about racing, so I should be able to note my view as long as I keep respecting the house rule.

One thing is now sure, I rather do not want to read you complain about the New Jersey track after the race and escape by saying that but I could not see how the race will be, as you seems to be informed well enough about how racing takes place on the track and what measure must it be taken to stimulate it. if you can reveal secrets and skills on other venues like you yourself CAN do and have done, you could be better off doing it now so that the real architect can listen and see if there is anything to pick up. That is what I mean.

Edited by One, 28 October 2011 - 08:35.


#676 PayasYouRace

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 08:27

I insisted on Anti Clock Wise based on this sport logics, and associate it with view to Manhattan, as those two points seems to me immediately valid if you take a note that authority will not care as long as the race is safe. I forced to change other bits that is more for shock making to enforce my debate. I know my track lay out is far from perfect and full of mistakes and taboos, but this does not mean that Tilke is a god and provided us with the ingenious solutions for which none complained everywhere. Forum is here to speak about racing, so I should be able to note my view as long as I keep respecting the house rule.


There's the problem. By including those changes you actually weakened your argument to the point of easy ridicule. You could have just suggested to change the direction of the track, though it was already for spurious reasons. Of course your track layout is far from perfect. It's actually crap. Tilke is not perfect but at least his design is workable, sensible and probably quite good for racing and driving.

#677 One

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 08:37

There's the problem. By including those changes you actually weakened your argument to the point of easy ridicule. You could have just suggested to change the direction of the track, though it was already for spurious reasons. Of course your track layout is far from perfect. It's actually crap. Tilke is not perfect but at least his design is workable, sensible and probably quite good for racing and driving.


I take your heavy criticism for what might be true for your eyes.

But I insist. the current New Jersey Track, which obviously the trace is designed by nobody, will see heavy debated in three years after the race.

#678 PayasYouRace

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 08:46

I take your heavy criticism for what might be true for your eyes.

But I insist. the current New Jersey Track, which obviously the trace is designed by nobody, will see heavy debated in three years after the race.


Of course it will. Everything to do with Formula One is heavily debated. But I will eat my hat if any of that debate centres around the views of Manhattan from the track during the race.

#679 One

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 09:30

Of course it will. Everything to do with Formula One is heavily debated. But I will eat my hat if any of that debate centres around the views of Manhattan from the track during the race.


None except some will do so unless there might be a shortage of excitement meaning the collective interest not meeting the goal. In my optic, the presence of Manhattan here is prime, and the current attitude is to force spectator to give a back to Manhattan as they are here to watch Race. Simply if you have a choice to buy a seat with race there with great view to Manhattan or not, the price of ticket with view to Manhattan is worth more. This is proven too many times for example in the price & position of restaurant tables. Guests in restaurants lives in own town so according to the false logic that locals do not care about viewing Manhattan because they come to see race, miserable fails. The truth is, if it is NOT available guys will not complain, but if there are some possibilities available, those seats are way more profitable for the organizer. Do you see any position like this in the current layout? The easiest way is to neglect all chances to view Manhattan and the race at the same time so no one has it thus eliminating the complain.

If someone made a little bit more effort ore cared a bit more, it could have been MORE.
But if no one knows that it could very well be more with something that noe one yet recognize, then there will be no complain made.

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#680 August

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 09:36

Marketing will justify the race quality in an identical way as other new tracks have experienced, first year or two teams and drivers praise the track and then there will be a lot of complains like Singapore track.


I'd say Valecia was an even better example. Everybody said how nice to get a street circuit in '08. Even in '09 drivers praised it. But nowadays nobody likes it. Except for Bernie. But if Valencia was a night race in Singapore, people would like about it just as much as they like about Marina Bay. And if Marina Bay was a daylight race in Valencia, the opinion would be mainly the same than about Valencia track.

One thing is now sure, I rather do not want to read you complain about the New Jersey track after the race and escape by saying that but I could not see how the race will be, as you seems to be informed well enough about how racing takes place on the track and what measure must it be taken to stimulate it. if you can reveal secrets and skills on other venues like you yourself CAN do and have done, you could be better off doing it now so that the real architect can listen and see if there is anything to pick up. That is what I mean.


Do you think Mr. Tilke reads this forum? But anyway, if Abu Dhabi produces again a snorefest, they'd better read the modification thread, even bulldozer might not be the worst option.

Anyway, I couldn't resist but to make my own anticlockwise layout. But going to the bridge from the downhill of Pershing Rd would be too dangerous. So this is much different from the official.

Posted Image

Compared to official:

Posted Image

And still I prefer the official layout.

Edited by August, 28 October 2011 - 09:40.


#681 Red17

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 10:25

Let's wait for the real Herman to screw it up.
That video looks quite interesting, lets see how the monster logistics will hape the surroundings, might be a good idea to save this video and make a drive thru closer to the GP date to compare.

#682 One

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 11:27

I'd say Valecia was an even better example. Everybody said how nice to get a street circuit in '08. Even in '09 drivers praised it. But nowadays nobody likes it. Except for Bernie. But if Valencia was a night race in Singapore, people would like about it just as much as they like about Marina Bay. And if Marina Bay was a daylight race in Valencia, the opinion would be mainly the same than about Valencia track.


it is all the same.

Do you think Mr. Tilke reads this forum? But anyway, if Abu Dhabi produces again a snorefest, they'd better read the modification thread, even bulldozer might not be the worst option.

it does not matter, I do not know neither care. To make influence means that that some people read it and make something out of it so that there will be new request to THE REAL ARCHITECT, by this I mean the Client exclusively. I am more than sure that Tilke would have drawn other thing than what it is now, if he were to given chances. but i am not defending him here, I am just pointing put that the architect is a piece of paper between the organizer and FOM. This piece of paper fix all what may happen on the land. Mind you that All empty ground here is not a costless ground. It has cost expected to go raise now, between or after the deals of Grand Prix. Just adding up one or two road or infra, tennis coat whatever does mean to alter the ground value either up or down, which is too risky for some owners who rather go by with status quo.

Holding GP is an already a massive piece of change. Some condo owners may hate, the other may love. There are already too many built there, so the complete land value may fall. If the organizer / owners have taken such a risk, I shout then to do it in a supremeway so that the track certainly will become the world famous so that the land will become visible to those who making mega buck in China, India, You name it...

Anyway, I couldn't resist but to make my own anticlockwise layout. But going to the bridge from the downhill of Pershing Rd would be too dangerous. So this is much different from the official.

Posted Image

Compared to official:

Posted Image

And still I prefer the official layout.


I donno what passion is loaded in this. Have you read Joe Saward article on back ground? Saward says that the ground is owned by one man. The owner has plan to raise the value of the ground via GP. he is the same man who owns ferry. So your idea is not possible however you chose to line on road. It is out side of possibility, no chance.

#683 One

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 11:55

Let's wait for the real Herman to screw it up.
That video looks quite interesting, lets see how the monster logistics will hape the surroundings, might be a good idea to save this video and make a drive thru closer to the GP date to compare.


I think this is a wise proposal, therefore I agree to remain confined about the matter.

#684 August

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 12:28

it is all the same.


it does not matter, I do not know neither care. To make influence means that that some people read it and make something out of it so that there will be new request to THE REAL ARCHITECT, by this I mean the Client exclusively. I am more than sure that Tilke would have drawn other thing than what it is now, if he were to given chances. but i am not defending him here, I am just pointing put that the architect is a piece of paper between the organizer and FOM. This piece of paper fix all what may happen on the land. Mind you that All empty ground here is not a costless ground. It has cost expected to go raise now, between or after the deals of Grand Prix. Just adding up one or two road or infra, tennis coat whatever does mean to alter the ground value either up or down, which is too risky for some owners who rather go by with status quo.

Holding GP is an already a massive piece of change. Some condo owners may hate, the other may love. There are already too many built there, so the complete land value may fall. If the organizer / owners have taken such a risk, I shout then to do it in a supremeway so that the track certainly will become the world famous so that the land will become visible to those who making mega buck in China, India, You name it...



I donno what passion is loaded in this. Have you read Joe Saward article on back ground? Saward says that the ground is owned by one man. The owner has plan to raise the value of the ground via GP. he is the same man who owns ferry. So your idea is not possible however you chose to line on road. It is out side of possibility, no chance.


Considering that going to the bridge from the downhill of Pershing Rd would be too dangerous and that the track has to be where it's planned to be, there's really no way to make it anticlockwise. So the official layout is as good as it can be, especially as it seems that the track will have to based on the streets. (which is obviously why there are 90-deg corners at the beginning) Of course there are roads between those condos, but the track was planned to be build so that the track cout no one's access to their home.

"We don't put in a single foot of asphalt," said Hindery. "We build our stands, our pits and paddock club. We put up barriers and catch fences. We put it up and take it down. There's not one residence in the middle of the course. Everyone can access their home without being impeded by the track."


And, IMO the official layout is great. The narrow uphill down Pershing Rd looks nice and JF Blvd section is a bit like Valencia's sector 3 with small turns, this is just longer. Then, after the hairpin we'll have a 1.35 km (according to Google Earth) straight, so there should be a good overtaking spot. I wouldn't say your proposal is any better. And what would make this race world famous is fans. If fans will love this event it can be a success, even a rival to Monaco, if fans aren't interested this will be another Phoenix.

#685 doohanOK

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 12:49

I am not sure if this will go ahead. And if it does - for how many years?

Why?

There will be simply too many complaints from residents about the noise. Therefore, a few lawsuits......

regards,
doohanOK.

#686 maximilian

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 12:54

Posted Image


Uhmmm, yes, Hudson Place seems like the IDEAL Formula 1 straight! :rotfl:
Posted Image

Edited by maximilian, 28 October 2011 - 12:55.


#687 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 13:01

Well, for what its worth, i have driven SPA backwards in iRacing.
If you think Eau rouge and Radillion is scary the right way its almost impossible the other way.
You are coming from the very fast downhill Kemmel straight (more downhill than you think) and the car almost takes off on the top of radillion and your nearly flying down into Eau Rouge...


I can imagine! Did you time yourself both ways to get an idea? Just interested! I remember Midfield Reverse in Gran Turismo 2 was massively more difficult than usual as the most difficult slow corners were led into by the most difficult fast ones. In the normal layout the difficult fast corners were just acceleration zones therefore no challenge at all.

#688 jaisli

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 13:04

I am not sure if this will go ahead. And if it does - for how many years?

Why?

There will be simply too many complaints from residents about the noise. Therefore, a few lawsuits......

regards,
doohanOK.


Yeah, but, if they run the course in reverse...


#689 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 13:14

In reverse instead of really loud and annoying, it'd sound like birds chirping and angels sighing.

#690 One

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 13:19

"We don't put in a single foot of asphalt," said Hindery. "We build our stands, our pits and paddock club. We put up barriers and catch fences. We put it up and take it down. There's not one residence in the middle of the course. Everyone can access their home without being impeded by the track."


this means that the cars will run on those broken rats friendly manhole-top-flying birds shitted and full of fixing patch asphalt. I am rather sure that the guys are not too honest in this.

#691 red stick

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 13:51

In reverse instead of really loud and annoying, it'd sound like birds chirping and angels sighing.


Except for the voice telling us, "Paul is dead."


#692 One

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 15:03

Except for the voice telling us, "Paul is dead."


I miss those V10 songs.... Got one from Spa on mini discs...

#693 DracoN

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 17:57

New Jersey Formula 1 GP of America (rFactor). Rough sketch
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

#694 chivdog

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 17:57

just found this rfactor mock up:

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Haven't been able to verify it yet - but the track looks spectacular.

#695 One

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 21:15

you must like to have sex on computer more than with real person, for sure, he?

#696 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 21:19

Hands up anyone who has driven an F1 car around the New Jersey F1 track.

Hands up anyone who has a good chance to be driving an F1 car at any of the proposed New Jersey F1 races from 2013 to 2022.

#697 jhodges

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 21:24

Hands up anyone who has driven an F1 car around the New Jersey F1 track.

Hands up anyone who has a good chance to be driving an F1 car at any of the proposed New Jersey F1 races from 2013 to 2022.


Ooo, me me! :wave:

#698 cheesy poofs

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 02:08

Ooo, me me! :wave:


Maybe you can take the Ducati for a spin too!

:D





#699 Rob G

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 16:03

New Jersey Formula 1 GP of America (rFactor). Rough sketch
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

If he was able to do all that in "a few hours", he should have been put on the Gran Turismo team years ago. Very cool. :up:

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#700 pRy

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 20:25

Monaco works because it has the history and they don't mind converting the roads to a circuit and the buildings next to the track are generally commercial or apartments. But an F1 track right next to residential houses? Hmm.. I'm sceptical.