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New Jersey GP? [merged]


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#901 BRG

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 23:15

Sandy is a damn good excuse to bury this non-starter.

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#902 Les

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 22:09

According to Shitpass the race is back on for 2014... Lets hope its true though.

http://www.pitpass.c...fident-for-2014

I wish they didn't have to take out all the crowns and make the surface the same as every other F1 track. I wish they would race on the bumps as Indycars do. If you have this months Motorsport check out Rubens comparison between F1 tracks and Indycar street courses.

#903 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 22:23

Heh, the street circuits F1 races on are better paved/maintained than the road courses Indycar use.

#904 PayasYouRace

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 10:33

The street circuits Indycar use are maintained? [Belle Isle, cough cough]

#905 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 10:44

I don't consider Detroit a road course.

#906 PayasYouRace

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 11:08

Misread you Ross. But yeah, even the road courses are quite poorly maintained in Indycar, with those concrete apex patches and stuff.

#907 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 11:15

As long as the track isn't actually falling apart, I say leave them alone. It makes the track more interesting. F1 is supposed to be the best drivers and engineers in the world, you can't handle some bumps?

#908 PayasYouRace

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 11:20

Surely F1 is supposed to be on the best tracks too?

If I was a circuit owner, I'd want to provide the best possible racing surface that I could.

#909 BRG

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 11:24

As long as the track isn't actually falling apart, I say leave them alone. It makes the track more interesting. F1 is supposed to be the best drivers and engineers in the world, you can't handle some bumps?

Agreed. But the F1 circus wouldn't, I'm sure.

I think it is all irrelevant anyway as I seriously doubt that this event will ever happen. The silence that has surrounded it all along may have finally lifted a little, only to show a load of obfuscation and PR drivel about permits and floating pontoons. Let alone the comment that Hurricane (I thought it was a "Superstorm"?) Sandy affected progress on the 2013 race, when that date had already long been abandoned. The bottom line must be that they still haven't got the money.

#910 F1ultimate

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 11:27

OK. This applies to Red Bull but why did Ecclestone not make sure that the organisers had funding from anyone before giving them a contract?


It's because Bernie's business model is the same as companies that offer payday and SMS loans - they pray on short term thinking people who are financially ignorant.


And it works!

#911 olliek88

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 11:31

I feel pretty sure Bernie was never too fussed about this GP actually happening, i get the impression the primary reason was to give the mob down in Austin the hurry up, i think this was announced at a time when Austin was in trouble and dithering a little. Bernie was just saying "well we've got this other race in the US now so if you don't sort it out you lose out".

I'm sure he'd love more races/exposure in the US though.

#912 F1ultimate

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 11:38

I feel pretty sure Bernie was never too fussed about this GP actually happening, i get the impression the primary reason was to give the mob down in Austin the hurry up, i think this was announced at a time when Austin was in trouble and dithering a little. Bernie was just saying "well we've got this other race in the US now so if you don't sort it out you lose out".


It's like when he flirted with Donnington in order to hustle Silverstone into signing a multi-year deal. Bernie is a master chess player and he's always got a one-up on his opponents who rarely have any leverage.

#913 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 11:46

I wish they would let them run on different kinds of pavement, and the occasional bump in the road.

That's a test of *driving* skill. It'd be interesting to have concrete in some braking zones, for instance. That is one thing Nascar has over F1, all of the oddball varying surface types.

As long as the New Jersey circuit can handle it without falling apart - leave it alone.

#914 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 12:43

Sandy created a political minefield for anyone trying to garner funds for an extravagant business adventure such as F1.

Actually...

My company just won a Federal Government contract regarding economic development in disaster areas. I'm not big on the details but it's a Task Order type thing and I believe the idea is to help the economy recover in areas hit by disasters. The areas affected by Sandy are apparently first up.

I think that shows that the government is interested in stimulating the economies of areas hit by destruction from natural disasters.

Well, F1 races are widely thought to greatly stimulate the local economy, so....

it could actually work FOR it.

#915 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 12:52

It could but for three small issues.

-F1 is really expensive. It's like buying a new football stadium without the asset.
-Racing, for whatever reason, doesn't get the same treatment on economic development that other sports do. And it's a foreign event so the money doesn't stay in the American economy.
-For the above reasons and mainy more, it would be politically unpopular.


#916 InSearchOfThe

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 15:08

The street circuits Indycar use are maintained? [Belle Isle, cough cough]

Sao Paulo

#917 Xpat

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:59

As long as the track isn't actually falling apart, I say leave them alone. It makes the track more interesting. F1 is supposed to be the best drivers and engineers in the world, you can't handle some bumps?


Don't you remember the bitching by some of the drivers about the yard of bricks at IMS? They might be able handle bumps, but not without bitching about it.

#918 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:01

If that was anywhere else than Indy they'd have caved to the drivers :p

#919 Kristian

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:11

If that was anywhere else than Indy they'd have caved to the drivers :p


Didn't Ferrari ask for the bricks to be sandblasted? The officials got into a panic and quickly moved the grid back befroe Jean Todt marched down with his grinder.

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#920 Xpat

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:48

Didn't Ferrari ask for the bricks to be sandblasted? The officials got into a panic and quickly moved the grid back befroe Jean Todt marched down with his grinder.


Jean Todt, a Frenchman, would have met the fist of one AJ Foyt. :rotfl:

#921 MP422

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 13:21

Agreed. But the F1 circus wouldn't, I'm sure.

I think it is all irrelevant anyway as I seriously doubt that this event will ever happen. The silence that has surrounded it all along may have finally lifted a little, only to show a load of obfuscation and PR drivel about permits and floating pontoons. Let alone the comment that Hurricane (I thought it was a "Superstorm"?) Sandy affected progress on the 2013 race, when that date had already long been abandoned. The bottom line must be that they still haven't got the money.



The Hurricane was no joke, i live in the area and part time i do damage assessment reports and handle the permit applications etc. due to this storm and things are moving slow. It was shocking to see an "average citizen" beg for food and water on the street.... That's not a BS excuse for the race being delayed. Keep the faith !!

#922 BRG

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 21:25

The Hurricane was no joke, i live in the area and part time i do damage assessment reports and handle the permit applications etc. due to this storm and things are moving slow. It was shocking to see an "average citizen" beg for food and water on the street.... That's not a BS excuse for the race being delayed. Keep the faith !!

I do not mean to imply Sandy was not a serious disaster for the area. Merely that the 2013 race had already been postponed in mid-October, BEFORE Sandy came ashore. The suggestion that it was postponed BECAUSE of Sandy is BS and disrespectful of those who were genuinely badly affected by the storm.

#923 chumma

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 21:45

A friend of mine drives past the area where the circuit is gonna be and he said its full steam ahead at the moment and when its done its going to look 'amazing'

#924 Les

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 22:42

A friend of mine drives past the area where the circuit is gonna be and he said its full steam ahead at the moment and when its done its going to look 'amazing'


Get him to take some pics if he can!

#925 BRG

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 22:20

Get him to take some pics if he can!

No, no, this whole race is being held in secret. That's why they have no website, almost never tell anyone anything, have no marketing etc. This is the Area 51 of motor sport. Even the North Korean GP will have more publicity - once Bernie gets the deal signed.

#926 Risil

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 22:23

No, no, this whole race is being held in secret. That's why they have no website, almost never tell anyone anything, have no marketing etc. This is the Area 51 of motor sport.


How do we know the race hasn't already happened?

#927 loki

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 03:14

How do we know the race hasn't already happened?


You wouldn't.. ;)


#928 Harry

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 03:18

It will go ahead next year. They were ready this year but certain complications disallowed it. It will go ahead for 2014. I bet my right bolluck.

#929 jaisli

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:50

It will go ahead next year. They were ready this year but certain complications disallowed it. It will go ahead for 2014. I bet my right bolluck.


:confused: Define "ready"?


#930 BRG

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 23:06

:confused: Define "ready"?

That would be 'ready'as in had no track, no pits/media facilities, no marketing and ticketing arrangements and, presumably, no money to pay Bernie.

#931 George Costanza

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:18

Agreed. But the F1 circus wouldn't, I'm sure.

I think it is all irrelevant anyway as I seriously doubt that this event will ever happen. The silence that has surrounded it all along may have finally lifted a little, only to show a load of obfuscation and PR drivel about permits and floating pontoons. Let alone the comment that Hurricane (I thought it was a "Superstorm"?) Sandy affected progress on the 2013 race, when that date had already long been abandoned. The bottom line must be that they still haven't got the money.



I was one of the victims of Hurricane Sandy.

It IS and WAS the worse storm New Jersey has seen in since the 1930s or even before that.

But, it was problematic even before that, and it got much worse after that.

Edited by George Costanza, 14 March 2013 - 04:18.


#932 FredrikB

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 10:18

New Jersey handed F1 cash boost
http://www.planetf1....d-F1-cash-boost

"Bernie Ecclestone has revealed that they have given organisers some funding.
"There's no reason why it shouldn't happen. We've put money behind it to pay a lot of the things off, a lot of their debts," he told Reuters. "So I'm hoping now we are going to get it together.
"We're going to try and make it happen next year.""

#933 BRG

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 18:56

How have they incurred any significant debts? They haven't done anything yet, have they?

And how can a new race organisation team manage to get Bernie to pay them rather than the other way around? They really must know where the bodies are buried.... ;)

#934 Tosh

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 19:02

New Jersey handed F1 cash boost
http://www.planetf1....d-F1-cash-boost

"Bernie Ecclestone has revealed that they have given organisers some funding.
"There's no reason why it shouldn't happen. We've put money behind it to pay a lot of the things off, a lot of their debts," he told Reuters. "So I'm hoping now we are going to get it together.
"We're going to try and make it happen next year.""


So he does not want to give funding to bring back some classic circuits in the calendar but he helps to build another street circuit.

Edited by Tosh, 14 May 2013 - 19:03.


#935 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 19:26

I think it was Joe Saward that made the interesting point that for Jersey/Long Beach if you upgrade the area you could make a pretty penny on the increase in land values...

#936 FerrariFanInTexas

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 19:37

Seems a bit unfair to the Austin crew, who have put up hundreds of millions, fought with both the City and State about a relatively moderate level of subsidy, and generally had to do everything on their own. Obviously Bernie is not as "motivated" to see F1 racing down here in Texas.

#937 Woody3says

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 19:43

I understand you completely. I am much more concerned with a return of the Mexican GP for the future of COTA. There were way more from south of the border than from the east coast. Indy was a fairly good mix of people from all over. I expect NJ would be the same. Mexico however would draw a large part of the crowd away (unless they chose to do both)

#938 Frank Grimes

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 02:31

New Jersey and Montreal are only 6 hours by car away from each other and seems to me that they are competing for the same customer base. I hope they are scheduled for opposite times of the season at least.

#939 HaydenFan

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 03:14

New Jersey and Montreal are only 6 hours by car away from each other and seems to me that they are competing for the same customer base. I hope they are scheduled for opposite times of the season at least.


Were supposed to be back to back weekends after Monaco this year on the provisional schedule. I expect that to remain next season. Barcelona and Valencia got really close in the last couple of years on the schedule and those citites are much closer than NYC and Montreal.

They will compete, and it really shouldn't make too much of an impact, if any at all. I notice that in the U.S., race fans don't have an issue traveling to see races, so if anything, they are also competing with the USGP in Austin, and Long Beach if that happens. Also, it is two countries. And at least in Michigan, the ability to cross the boarder isn't as easy as it used to be (still easy if you have a passport), so for those without one would have to make the choice to stay home.

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#940 TurboKeb

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 04:47

Were supposed to be back to back weekends after Monaco this year on the provisional schedule. I expect that to remain next season. Barcelona and Valencia got really close in the last couple of years on the schedule and those citites are much closer than NYC and Montreal.

They will compete, and it really shouldn't make too much of an impact, if any at all. I notice that in the U.S., race fans don't have an issue traveling to see races, so if anything, they are also competing with the USGP in Austin, and Long Beach if that happens. Also, it is two countries. And at least in Michigan, the ability to cross the boarder isn't as easy as it used to be (still easy if you have a passport), so for those without one would have to make the choice to stay home.


+1 for you sir.

NYC is one of the biggest urban agglomerations in North America, there should be enough people to buy tickets there.
As far as I know, the Montreal race is subsidized for a couple of years; and there are full grandstands from the (!!!) first friday running to the chequered flag on sunday.
In every corner of Quebec, the Montreal GP has a hype comparable to the one and only Montreal Canadiens, and that is, believe me, pretty big.
(For international readers, that ice hockey team gets about (!!!) 75% of the sport media weight when the hockey season is on, 21 273 tickets sold out for every 82+ games, no joke)

Edited by TurboKeb, 15 May 2013 - 04:48.


#941 kedia990

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 16:40

New Jersey claims 15-year (!!) deal, starting 2014.

http://en.espnf1.com...ory/111081.html

#942 ApexMouse

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 17:46

:rotfl:

#943 AustinF1

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 18:26

I understand you completely. I am much more concerned with a return of the Mexican GP for the future of COTA. There were way more from south of the border than from the east coast. Indy was a fairly good mix of people from all over. I expect NJ would be the same. Mexico however would draw a large part of the crowd away (unless they chose to do both)

I'll be surprised if Mexico City doesn't pull at least 200K people on raceday in the first year. COTA should be worried about Mexico.

#944 AustinF1

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 18:29

Seems a bit unfair to the Austin crew, who have put up hundreds of millions, fought with both the City and State about a relatively moderate level of subsidy, and generally had to do everything on their own. Obviously Bernie is not as "motivated" to see F1 racing down here in Texas.

$29M+ annually is a 'moderate" subsidy? The taxpayer is paying the entire FOM sanctioning fee...paying for COTA's content.


BTW, just saw this Pitpass article:

'A New Jersey fairytale?"

http://www.pitpass.c...ersey-fairytale



o/t: quote from the 'skeptic' in the article:

I didn't have a chance to get to Austin last year and it was great to see a sell-out crowd



Austin did not sell out. Sorry. The repetition of this is just a pet-peave of mine.

This skeptic sure sounds awfully defensive of COTA for someone who did not even attend the race here. Interesting. He also talks about the paddock in NJ not being complete. From what I've seen in Austin, having spent a lot of time in the paddock during every race but MotoGP, all you need for a paddock is a big open area. That's all the COTA paddock is. It's essentially a parking lot. The COTA support paddock doesn't even have electricity or water.

Edited by AustinF1, 12 June 2013 - 18:46.


#945 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 00:35

http://www.planetf1....cures-F1-future

"Thanks to the patient, invaluable support of Bernie Ecclestone and FOM (Formula One Management) we now have the long-term sanctioning agreement needed to go racing for years to come, starting in June 2014."

#946 ScuderiaSV1

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 01:59

I'm surprised no one has posted the article from Darren Heath's (professional F1 photographer) blog regarding the NY/NJ race:

http://www.darrenhea...ersey-no-chance

#947 ScuderiaSV1

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 02:05

Austin did not sell out. Sorry. The repetition of this is just a pet-peave of mine.


I know the isn't the correct thread, but I'm going to ask it anyways. I attended the F1 GP in 2012 and will be returning from the east coast (Pittsburgh) again this year. What is a "sell-out" for Austin?

I'd imagine they could and would sell as many GA tickets as possible. Is there a circuit capacity? Or were some grandstand(s) not full? Looked packed as hell to me. We arrived by 9am on Sunday and the hill at T1 was packed in the GA area. I was photographing at T7 (ga area) when the race began and hardly anyone was there..

#948 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 08:43

I'm surprised no one has posted the article from Darren Heath's (professional F1 photographer) blog regarding the NY/NJ race:

http://www.darrenhea...ersey-no-chance



Brilliant photographer, the best, but his opinions seem to always be a bit daft (MS sucks, etc.). Curious.

Here's hoping New Jersey is cheaper than frakking Austin prices.







#949 AustinF1

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 10:05

I know the isn't the correct thread, but I'm going to ask it anyways. I attended the F1 GP in 2012 and will be returning from the east coast (Pittsburgh) again this year. What is a "sell-out" for Austin?

Yes, the crowd was big. Very big, but not a sellout as some have claimed, even Geoff Moore from COTA earlier this year. COTA said a sellout would be 120K people. A couple of months before that they said a sellout = 140K people. Early on, Hellmund & others said they would be disappointed with less than 200K people on race day. It's interesting that they reduced the "sellout" number over the months leading to the race. There were a bit over 117K at COTA on race day and the 3 permanent grandstands (T1, T15, and the Main GS) never sold out. There are photos of the start of the race (I think I have some at home) with big empty areas in the Main Grandstand and other grandstands, and tickets were on sale at the ticket office all weekend.

I'd imagine they could and would sell as many GA tickets as possible. Is there a circuit capacity? Or were some grandstand(s) not full? Looked packed as hell to me. We arrived by 9am on Sunday and the hill at T1 was packed in the GA area. I was photographing at T7 (ga area) when the race began and hardly anyone was there..


You're right that the GA crowd at T1 was huge. There were also good crowds along the esses, and at Turn 11. There was a good General Admission turnout, but not nearly as many as there could have been, as COTA arbitrarily cut off GA ticket sales at 40K a few weeks before the race. They were trying to push people toward more expensive, unsold grandstand seats.

I don't know what the official capacity of the track might be per the fire department occupancy load calculations, but it was clear even during F1 that tens of thousands more people could be accommodated. They got within about 2500 people of a "sellout" based on the number of tickets they decided to sell, but not based on capacity. All of this despite tactics such as giving away multiple tickets to employees of vendors and writing vendor contracts requiring them to buy back 1% of their contract value in race tickets (essentially paying a portion of vendor contracts in race tickets rather than money, and then calling it "ticket sales" due to the wording).

Edited by AustinF1, 13 June 2013 - 10:49.


#950 AustinF1

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 10:13

Here's hoping New Jersey is cheaper than frakking Austin prices.

Indeed.

Should be interesting. COTA is apparently having trouble even with help from taxpayers (which is why they need to embellish & augment attendance figures any way they can). Hindery, on the other hand, has taken the hard-line stance against receiving public funding, even going as far as to call it "bad politics" and "bad ethics".

http://gordonkirby.c...t_is_no388.html

Edited by AustinF1, 13 June 2013 - 10:51.