Jump to content


Photo
* * * - - 7 votes

New Jersey GP? [merged]


  • Please log in to reply
1221 replies to this topic

#301 Mastah

Mastah
  • Member

  • 3,679 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 22 October 2011 - 09:09

Have you gone insane???


Absolutely no! Gimmie something exciting like this:

Posted Image

and get rid of such a boring track like this:

Posted Image

Advertisement

#302 Wi000

Wi000
  • Member

  • 1,163 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 22 October 2011 - 09:48

Fantastic news! Another street track with 90 degree corners :clap:. I hope it will replace Albert Park or Spa, I can't stand these boring circuits anymore!


Just what F1 needs, another clunky street race, in a country where F1 rates somewhere below varsity tiddlywinks in the fan stakes, just so that Bernie Ecclestone can get even richer and Tamara can loll about on a bed covered in £2 million in notes...

Good news for F1 me thinks, here is Joe Saward's take on it.
Monaco on the Hudson

A rather fitting comment from Joe seeing the negative first reactions here:

"One thing that always amazes me about the comments on this blog is the number of people who look at the world from the glass-half-empty point of view (pessimism), rather than the glass-half-full (optimism).
Perhaps it is in the nature of a blog-poster to always look at reasons why things cannot happen, rather than wondering if something might be possible. Formula 1 is a world where the half-empties are left behind and the half-fulls rule the roost."

:lol:

#303 Don_Humpador

Don_Humpador
  • Member

  • 2,223 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 22 October 2011 - 09:56

Posted Image

It's.. beauuutiful. :love:

#304 Massa_f1

Massa_f1
  • Member

  • 3,323 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 22 October 2011 - 09:56

Enough with the street circuits. They are so boring to watch. Monaco is enough for me. I bet we end up loosing a classic circuit for this rubbish.

#305 jaisli

jaisli
  • Member

  • 1,212 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 22 October 2011 - 09:57

I'm about 40 minutes away by car (without traffic--as if that ever happens) and while it would be nice to have a Grand Prix venue so close, I can't think of a worse place in which to do it. The Liberty Park idea at least had promise because of the potential in creating an interesting course within the confines of the park. I guess I would have to see the proposal, but being somewhat familiar with the roads around Weekhawken and West New York, as well as the infrastructure and general access, I'm not at all excited. There are roads in that area I'm scared to drive my own car with low profile tires at legal speeds. And compared to the glamor and beauty of Singapore or Yas Marina, this is going to be an embarrassment. Bernie better give the camera crews instructions to stay with wide angle shots, fixated on the background.

#306 hulmerist

hulmerist
  • Member

  • 1,026 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 22 October 2011 - 10:09

Enough with the street circuits. They are so boring to watch. Monaco is enough for me. I bet we end up loosing a classic circuit for this rubbish.


could get rid of barcelona/valencia

#307 Fastcake

Fastcake
  • Member

  • 6,105 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 October 2011 - 10:20

Enough with the street circuits. They are so boring to watch. Monaco is enough for me. I bet we end up loosing a classic circuit for this rubbish.

I'm fairly certain Valencia is still unsure about its future - would you be so angry then?

#308 Muppetmad

Muppetmad
  • Member

  • 2,426 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 22 October 2011 - 10:27

Monaco on the Hudson? Have they seen New Jersey?

#309 flyboy

flyboy
  • Member

  • 385 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 22 October 2011 - 11:00

The topic of a GP in the NY/NJ area is a waste of electrons... never happen. If it gets beyond the talking stage it will become a bonanza for the environmental and public interest lawyers who will tie it up in litigation for years.
If they want a race on the east coast there is only one place to hold it... The Glen! Bernie can buy Qaddafi's tent, which is no longer needed, and set it up as a hotel for the high rollers.

#310 August

August
  • Member

  • 2,067 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 22 October 2011 - 11:24

A race in NY/NJ sounds cool. Two US races helps to promote in da States. Also, I think USA provides much more business opportunities for F1 than countries like Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, or Malaysia. I just hope the street circuit is more like Albert Park or Montreal, not like Valencia or Singapore.

Edited by August, 22 October 2011 - 11:24.


#311 ElJefe

ElJefe
  • Member

  • 145 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 October 2011 - 11:38

Another USGP? I really don't get it, I thought Bernie was all about expanding the horizons of F1. Countries such as Argentina, Mexico and South Africa all have an F1 pedigree and their economies are growing at a much faster rate than any Western economy. Especially in Argentina all forms of motorsports enjoy a reasonably big fanbase...

#312 Wi000

Wi000
  • Member

  • 1,163 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 22 October 2011 - 11:47

A race in NY/NJ sounds cool. Two US races helps to promote in da States. Also, I think USA provides much more business opportunities for F1 than countries like Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, or Malaysia.

Sure it's not like Bahrain (major Mclaren shareholder, investor in Mclaren automotive, Mclaren automotive regional HQ), Abu Dhabi (Ferrari World) and Malaysia (Petronas, Tony Fernandes with AirAsia, Team Lotus) have provided business opportunities for F1. :rolleyes:

#313 lustigson

lustigson
  • Member

  • 4,767 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 22 October 2011 - 11:52

5354057[/url]']
Another USGP? I really don't get it, I thought Bernie was all about expanding the horizons of F1.

Well, Bernie's always been about expanding the horizon of his wallet, first and foremost. However, I'd be more than delighted with a second US Grand Prix.
I wonder what it'll be called, though; surely not 'New York Grand Prix'? Although that wouldn't be without precedent - San Marino Grand Prix, anyone?

#314 August

August
  • Member

  • 2,067 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 22 October 2011 - 12:15

Sure it's not like Bahrain (major Mclaren shareholder, investor in Mclaren automotive, Mclaren automotive regional HQ), Abu Dhabi (Ferrari World) and Malaysia (Petronas, Tony Fernandes with AirAsia, Team Lotus) have provided business opportunities for F1. :rolleyes:


I don't think Middle East is the best region for existing sponsors to have races. It's still relatively small market compared to USA or e.g. China. And could you name any business opportunity provided by Turkey. I can't, and maybe that's why they lost their race.

Well, Bernie's always been about expanding the horizon of his wallet, first and foremost. However, I'd be more than delighted with a second US Grand Prix.
I wonder what it'll be called, though; surely not 'New York Grand Prix'? Although that wouldn't be without precedent - San Marino Grand Prix, anyone?


At least in the recent years the races haven't had cities' names, even though IIRC Rome race would've been called Rome Grand Prix, and of course Las Vegas race was named after Caesars Palace hotel. But maybe Atlantic GP in style of Pacific GP or Grand Prix of Americas in style of European GP, even though that would be a better name for the Circuit of Americas' race.

#315 MattPete

MattPete
  • Member

  • 1,443 posts
  • Joined: January 00

Posted 22 October 2011 - 12:17

Another USGP? I really don't get it, I thought Bernie was all about expanding the horizons of F1. Countries such as Argentina, Mexico and South Africa all have an F1 pedigree and their economies are growing at a much faster rate than any Western economy. Especially in Argentina all forms of motorsports enjoy a reasonably big fanbase...



The United States is roughly the size of western Europe, and Monza is closer to Silverstone (1042 km) than Austin is to NYC (2431 km).


On a side note, I believe this web site was started in Austin, TX.

#316 primer

primer
  • Member

  • 6,664 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 22 October 2011 - 12:18

Gimmie something exciting like this:
Posted Image

From a distance (no Bette Midler) it looks wee bit like a shaft and two balls, one smaller and hanging offset than the other as it so often happens. You went random in mspaint and this is what you 'naturally' come up with, Mastah, is there something you want to tell us?

Monaco on the Hudson? Have they seen New Jersey?

:lol: :up:

Edited by primer, 22 October 2011 - 12:25.


#317 DinocoBlue

DinocoBlue
  • Member

  • 434 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 22 October 2011 - 12:18

Well, Bernie's always been about expanding the horizon of his wallet, first and foremost. However, I'd be more than delighted with a second US Grand Prix.
I wonder what it'll be called, though; surely not 'New York Grand Prix'? Although that wouldn't be without precedent - San Marino Grand Prix, anyone?

New England GP... just to irritate.;)

#318 HaydenFan

HaydenFan
  • Member

  • 2,090 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 22 October 2011 - 12:18

Well, Bernie's always been about expanding the horizon of his wallet, first and foremost. However, I'd be more than delighted with a second US Grand Prix.
I wonder what it'll be called, though; surely not 'New York Grand Prix'? Although that wouldn't be without precedent - San Marino Grand Prix, anyone?


Names? Grand Prix of Jersey? I could see it now. Chris Christie at the event announcement confusing the F1 show car for a hot dog and eating it.

This is just a base for a million jokes. The norm in an F1 hospitality suit is caviar and champagne, but not in Jersey. They'll park a few diners alongside the circuit.



#319 OfficeLinebacker

OfficeLinebacker
  • Member

  • 14,019 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 22 October 2011 - 12:22

Just what F1 needs, another clunky street race, in a country where F1 rates somewhere below varsity tiddlywinks in the fan stakes,


The USA is a big country. NYC is the most cosmopolitan of the cities in the USA. If you don't think this won't be the most star-studded race in recent memory, you don't know $%1t about sports.

Advertisement

#320 DinocoBlue

DinocoBlue
  • Member

  • 434 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 22 October 2011 - 12:24

So, I guess '13 will have 21 races? Presuming that Bahrain stays.

And then there's Russia in '14 to accommodate.



#321 lustigson

lustigson
  • Member

  • 4,767 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 22 October 2011 - 12:24

5354096[/url]']
New England GP... just to irritate.;)

:lol:
I juist hope it's not going to be 'United States Grand Prix East' - that's lame.

#322 OfficeLinebacker

OfficeLinebacker
  • Member

  • 14,019 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 22 October 2011 - 12:27

I wonder what it'll be called, though; surely not 'New York Grand Prix'? Although that wouldn't be without precedent - San Marino Grand Prix, anyone?

Well the New York Jets and the New York Giants both play at the Meadowlands in New Jersey.

But more importantly, who sponsors it?

The JPMorgan Chase Grand Prix of New York?

#323 DinocoBlue

DinocoBlue
  • Member

  • 434 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 22 October 2011 - 12:31

:lol:
I juist hope it's not going to be 'United States Grand Prix East' - that's lame.

Surely it should be US GP North and Austin becomes US GP South?;) :drunk:


In all seriousness I do quite like the Atlantic GP idea floated a few posts above.

#324 Richard T

Richard T
  • Member

  • 1,145 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 22 October 2011 - 12:33

Surely it should be US GP North and Austin becomes US GP South?;) :drunk:


In all seriousness I do quite like the Atlantic GP idea floated a few posts above.


Indeed, Atlantic or perhaps American GP

#325 HaydenFan

HaydenFan
  • Member

  • 2,090 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 22 October 2011 - 12:35

Well the New York Jets and the New York Giants both play at the Meadowlands in New Jersey.

But more importantly, who sponsors it?

The JPMorgan Chase Grand Prix of New York?


The Occupy Wall Street people might block that.

I'm thinking of more Jersey type sponsors. Western Union, MTV, DeCavalcante crime family.

#326 MattPete

MattPete
  • Member

  • 1,443 posts
  • Joined: January 00

Posted 22 October 2011 - 12:43

New England GP... just to irritate.;)


That would irritate the hell out of my relatives that actually do live in New England (CT, NH, & MA).


[for those of you who don't know, New Jersey is NOT in New England]


#327 Lamag

Lamag
  • Member

  • 997 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 22 October 2011 - 12:45

YEAH BABY, ANOTHER GRINGO GP!!!

#328 Wi000

Wi000
  • Member

  • 1,163 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 22 October 2011 - 12:48

And could you name any business opportunity provided by Turkey. I can't, and maybe that's why they lost their race.

Sod it, ya think I'm your personal F1 business encyclopedia. Google is a friend of the clueless. :wave:
I gave you 3 fine examples of business opportunities provided by countries that you ignorantly dismiss as not interesting for F1 that will have to do.

OT: Atlantic GP has a nice ring to it. :up:

Edited by Wi000, 22 October 2011 - 12:49.


#329 discover23

discover23
  • Member

  • 3,869 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 22 October 2011 - 12:52

F1 finally coming to my back yard.. HELL YEAHH BABY!!!

#330 Les

Les
  • Member

  • 2,068 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 22 October 2011 - 12:57

I imagine the calendar would stay at 20 with a race or two being dropped. Maybe Bahrain or South Korea?

#331 lukestanton91

lukestanton91
  • Member

  • 151 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 22 October 2011 - 12:58

So, I guess '13 will have 21 races? Presuming that Bahrain stays.

And then there's Russia in '14 to accommodate.


If the rumours of Circuit de Catalunya and Valencia sharing the Spanish GP on alternate years are true, that's one less Grand Prix down (even though by right, it should be at Motorland Aragon, great track, just crying out for Formula One. Same goes for Portimao in Portugal too).

I would be surprised if we go back to Bahrain next year, and in the long term, who knows? I certainly won't be upset if it never comes back.

Also, the noises coming from the Yeongam Circuit in Korea this week seemed to suggest they don't seem too confident about Korea staying on the calender.

So taking all this into account, looking at the long term, there is room for a New Jersey (or whatever it will be called) Grand Prix.

I've got no problem with that, just as long as it's better than Valencia and Singapore...

Edited by lukestanton91, 22 October 2011 - 12:59.


#332 OSX

OSX
  • Member

  • 4,192 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 22 October 2011 - 13:00

A race in NY/NJ sounds cool. Two US races helps to promote in da States.


I agree but I doubt that the 'United States Grand Prix' folk in Austin feel the same way...


#333 August

August
  • Member

  • 2,067 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 22 October 2011 - 13:08

According to Saward's blog, the track would look something like this.

Posted Image

Edit: I still assume, the track wouldn't go straight from hairpin to 1st corner, I think it will use the roads closer to Hudson.

Edit 2: Wait a minute, here's more official layout in a f1fanatic article from August.

http://www.f1fanatic...track-new-york/

There's a 90-deg corner to left, left to the lower arrow I drew, and another 90-deg corner to right leading back to Port Imperial Blvd. Then the first two corners are as I supposed them to be except that they are earlier, where I expected the pits to be.

Edited by August, 22 October 2011 - 13:26.


#334 DinocoBlue

DinocoBlue
  • Member

  • 434 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 22 October 2011 - 13:20

If the rumours of Circuit de Catalunya and Valencia sharing the Spanish GP on alternate years are true, that's one less Grand Prix down (even though by right, it should be at Motorland Aragon, great track, just crying out for Formula One. Same goes for Portimao in Portugal too).

I would be surprised if we go back to Bahrain next year, and in the long term, who knows? I certainly won't be upset if it never comes back.

Also, the noises coming from the Yeongam Circuit in Korea this week seemed to suggest they don't seem too confident about Korea staying on the calender.

So taking all this into account, looking at the long term, there is room for a New Jersey (or whatever it will be called) Grand Prix.

I've got no problem with that, just as long as it's better than Valencia and Singapore...


I'm all for a GP share between the Spanish tracks (and isn't Spa supposed to be entering a share with Paul Ricard?), but it'd be a shame to loose Korea. Especially if they finally do start building the place up. And I actually like the novelty of Singapore, but I heard there was speculation they weren't that fussed at renewing when the contract expires.

Either way, I guess there is room.

*cue inevitable fantasy calendar posts*

I'll make this less fantasy...

Australia
Malaysia
China
Spain
Monaco
Canada
Atlantic GP
European GP (either Austria or Portugal)
Britain
Germany
Hungary
Belgium/France
Italy
Singapore
Japan
Korea
India
Abu Dhabi
USA
Brazil

And, if Bernie gets his way, Sochi can fit in mid-Summer - perhaps between Germany and Hungary.



According to Saward's blog, the track would look something like this.

Edit: I still assume, the track wouldn't go straight from hairpin to 1st corner, I think it will use the roads closer to Hudson.


Hmm not that inspiring to me, but what do I know.

#335 Watkins74

Watkins74
  • Member

  • 5,729 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 22 October 2011 - 13:24

is there any truth that Peter Windsor is going to be the Promoter?

seriously... can anyone believe that all the red tape will be resolved within a year to stage this event
nevermind the corruption and bureaucracy Hudson county is renowned for

Valid points but the US economy is so in the tank, I could imagine the local politicans bending over backwards to bring some revenue in.

#336 lukestanton91

lukestanton91
  • Member

  • 151 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 22 October 2011 - 13:33

I'm all for a GP share between the Spanish tracks (and isn't Spa supposed to be entering a share with Paul Ricard?), but it'd be a shame to loose Korea. Especially if they finally do start building the place up. And I actually like the novelty of Singapore, but I heard there was speculation they weren't that fussed at renewing when the contract expires.

Either way, I guess there is room.

*cue inevitable fantasy calendar posts*

I'll make this less fantasy...

Australia
Malaysia
China
Spain
Monaco
Canada
Atlantic GP
European GP (either Austria or Portugal)
Britain
Germany
Hungary
Belgium/France
Italy
Singapore
Japan
Korea
India
Abu Dhabi
USA
Brazil

And, if Bernie gets his way, Sochi can fit in mid-Summer - perhaps between Germany and Hungary.





Hmm not that inspiring to me, but what do I know.



I'd love Paul Ricard to be on the calender, and I think we should have a French Grand Prix. But I don't want to loose Spa. It should be written in the FIA regulations that it has to be part of the Formula One calender...

I like Yeongam too. Before the race last year looking at the layout, I was convinced I would hate it, but then I saw it for real, and it's got something about it that I just like. As you say though, they need to start building it up though. From a visual point of view, it looks horrible.

Not a fan of Singapore I'm afraid. It looks beautiful. But it's like my ex girlfriend. Looks beautiful but that's about it. Having said that though, the race this year wasn't too bad though. But even so, there are a lot better circuits out there that are just crying out for Formula One.




#337 nordschleife

nordschleife
  • Member

  • 869 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 22 October 2011 - 13:37

Valid points but the US economy is so in the tank, I could imagine the local politicans bending over backwards to bring some revenue in.


Chris Christie bending over backwards? That's not physically possible but I'd like to see him try. No, wait, I wouldn't. :lol:

Austin is Red State GP, NJ is Blue State GP. There, fixed.



#338 Fastcake

Fastcake
  • Member

  • 6,105 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 October 2011 - 13:37

And, if Bernie gets his way, Sochi can fit in mid-Summer - perhaps between Germany and Hungary.


I'm thinking Hungary is going to leave in the near future.

#339 DinocoBlue

DinocoBlue
  • Member

  • 434 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 22 October 2011 - 13:40

I'm thinking Hungary is going to leave in the near future.

Music to my ears.

Advertisement

#340 King Six

King Six
  • Member

  • 3,230 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 22 October 2011 - 13:53

Oh god, another street circuit. The best we can hope for is some decent/fast park circuit like Australia or Canada but more likely we're going to get another grid-bore like Singapore. I think this will be Pheonix all over again, and there's already issues with the Texas circuit.

Now it's just a case of who's going to be dropped for this. But the good news about that is there's plenty of awful tracks that can be spared, the bad news is that these are the richest/most well off tracks that could host F1 for the next 100 years.

#341 Wi000

Wi000
  • Member

  • 1,163 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 22 October 2011 - 13:57

I'm thinking Hungary is going to leave in the near future.

Dream on they extended until 2016, so unless 2017 is "near future" to you it isn't leaving anytime soon.

#342 Anonymous

Anonymous
  • Member

  • 2,948 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 22 October 2011 - 14:01

Get the **** out Bernie!!!! :mad: :mad:

#343 paulogman

paulogman
  • Member

  • 1,877 posts
  • Joined: June 03

Posted 22 October 2011 - 14:47

awesome news if it is going to go ahead. I'll be 15 minutes from the circuit!

#344 August

August
  • Member

  • 2,067 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 22 October 2011 - 14:49

Hmm not that inspiring to me, but what do I know.


I wouldn't say New Jersey proposal an unispiring circuit. Some people argue Monaco is better than Valencia or Singapore, coz it has elevation changes. According to Google Earth Monaco's Casino Square is about 30 m AMSL, whereas NJ's JFK Blvd is over 45 m AMSL. Also, NJ might provide some overtaking opportunities, the flat-out section from hairpin along Port Imperial Blvd is about 1.3 km long, hopefully hairpin and turning straight doesn't cause Abu Dhabi/Valencia syndrome. The JFK Blvd section with its constant, yet small direction changes can be like Valencia's S3, the best section of Valencia. The last 300 m or so of JFK Blvd section is straight so that should enable overtaking attempts. The sweep from JFK Blvd to hairpin is about 800 m long so maybe there's another overtaking opportunity.

Here's some photos from Google Streetview:

Posted Image

The place where Pershing Road (County Road 682) joins JFK Blvd. Pershing Rd is quite steep uphill.

Posted Image

Pic from JFK Blvd with River Hudson and Manhattan on the right side.

Posted Image

Obviously the place of pit straight. On the left you see a steep slope above which JFK Blvd is. Unfortunately the weather seems to have been bad when the pic has been taken.

Unfortunately the concrete/Armco barriers will destroy the view in the race.

#345 King Six

King Six
  • Member

  • 3,230 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 22 October 2011 - 14:55

I'm going to go in with zero hope for this layout until I watch the race. I just can't stand any more street circuits next to a marina or river or stupid things like that Monaco this is all your fault you ****

#346 Fastcake

Fastcake
  • Member

  • 6,105 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 October 2011 - 14:57

Dream on they extended until 2016, so unless 2017 is "near future" to you it isn't leaving anytime soon.

Must of forgot they extended. I don't see them carrying on past then, if they don't just pull out earlier anyway. When Russia comes along we have a new and improved Eastern European race, and the Hungaroring is getting dated.

#347 f1seb

f1seb
  • Member

  • 1,527 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 22 October 2011 - 15:18

So many USA haters here.

#348 Dmitriy_Guller

Dmitriy_Guller
  • Member

  • 4,032 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 22 October 2011 - 15:20

Monaco on the Hudson? Have they seen New Jersey?

I've seen the waterfront, I live there in fact. It's a very developed area, and Weehawken in particular is a very beautiful town. Of course, it takes billions in this area just to build a stop sign here, with over-regulation and corruption, so I will believe it when I see it.

#349 Dmitriy_Guller

Dmitriy_Guller
  • Member

  • 4,032 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 22 October 2011 - 15:31

I drive over there frequently. Port Imperial Boulevard/River Road is very scenic, with elevation changes and sharp forested cliff on the side. JFK Boulevard probably is too, since it's on the top of that cliff that overlooks Port Imperial Boulevard, though I don't usually drive there. Port Imperial Boulevard is also pretty wide, although I have no point of reference to compare them other street courses. The neighborhood is also a new development, so if you expect to see oil refineries or dilapidated docks on the track-side, prepare to be disappointed.

#350 discover23

discover23
  • Member

  • 3,869 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 22 October 2011 - 15:33

Formula 1 is immensely popular in Spain. The have a double World Champion, plus two other drivers and a team of their own. America has no Grands Prix, no teams and no races currently. If they can't maintain one race because they throw tantrums about the contracts, why should they have three?


I mean they are the same in spirit, structured the same way if not identical in the details.


...because NYC is the most diversified city in the world (2nd ? Toronto)and it would have absolutely no problem filling up the grand stands.. Just the tourists alone who visit NYC every summer can fill the stands on any given weekend..