48 replies to this topic

[Rob Semmeling]

When was an airfield first used for racing?

I am aware of the 1930s races at Mines Field, but that was dirt road course of which there were several at that time. This one just happened to be located at an airstrip.

What was the first paved airfield circuit, i.e. a course using runways and service roads? The earliest may have been used for a 1937 strictly-stock race at Longview airport in Washington, US. Can anyone offer further details about this?

The first post-war airfield race I am aware of was the Victory GP at Caversham, Australia in April 1946. Was there anything before that?

[Vitesse2]

Rukuhia in New Zealand? 1935 or thereabouts, but possibly only a grass strip at that time?

http://www.cambridge.....0BOP area.htm

[hansfohr]

The first post-war airfield race I am aware of was the Victory GP at Caversham, Australia in April 1946. Was there anything before that?

In July 1945 a one-off sprint event was held at Filton Airfield, won by Bob Gerard (ERA).

Edited by hansfohr, 26 March 2010 - 13:00.

[Rob Semmeling]

In July 1945 a one-off sprint event was held at Filton Airfield, won by Bob Gerard (ERA).

An interesting event considering the date, Hans, but not a circuit race - sorry if my question wasn't entirely clear.

Rukuhia is interesting but entirely new to me. Who knows more?

[hansfohr]

Rukuhia is interesting but entirely new to me. Who knows more?

A military airport that came into service in 1935. It was merely a stopover for refuelling. Only in that year 'races' were held, obviously only to keep the pilots happy.

Edited by hansfohr, 26 March 2010 - 13:38.

[David McKinney]

Rukuhia is interesting but entirely new to me. Who knows more?

As Vitesse says, it was a grass field then
First used in December 1933 (as Steele's airfield), and again a year later
Rukuhia was still being used for grasstrack racing well into the 1960s. I can think of at least one F1 driver who had his first race there

Edited by David McKinney, 26 March 2010 - 15:11.

[Rob Semmeling]

Ok, presumably that still leaves the 1937 Longview race as the first 'real' airfield race... surely someone must know more about?

[Tim Murray]

In July 1945 a one-off sprint event was held at Filton Airfield, won by Bob Gerard (ERA).

October 1945, not July. It was the first all-tarmac speed event held in the UK after WW2 but, as Rob pointed out, doesn't fit this particular bill.

Could Brooklands be defined as an airfield circuit?

[Sharman]

None of the previously mentioned predated Brooklands

[alansart]

Could Brooklands be defined as an airfield circuit?

I had that thought, but was Brooklands an airfield before a race track?

[Vitesse2]

It takes a very long stretch of the truth to suggest Brooklands as an airport venue: it's either a motor racing circuit with an airstrip attached or vice versa.

[Rob Semmeling]

Brooklands is completely different... I'm talking about runways, service roads or taxiways of an existing airport being used for racing. This became common practice after WW2 for obvious reasons, but it surely happened pre-war as well somewhere?

[Phil Rainford]

The Wright Brothers did use Le Mans in 1908 ......but probably doesn't qualify

As this picture from the centenary in 2008 illustrates




PAR

Edited by Phil Rainford, 26 March 2010 - 16:31.

[Vitesse2]

Well, again a sprint, and on an airport approach road rather than runways Whitchurch, 1937.

Concrete runways were still a bit of a rarity in the 1930s, of course.

[Risil]

I was wondering this exact same thing yesterday. If the Second World War hadn't happened, and the 'big two' circuits on mainland Britain hadn't been requisitioned for military use, what might British motor racing have looked like in the '50s and '60s? Without a ready supply of paved facilities at places like Thruxton, Snetterton and Silverstone; and presumably without the French recourse to closing off sections of the public highways -- what would the non-Donington, non-Brooklands race driver have done? Speedway-style racing? I believe Midgets raced at Wembley for a brief period after the war...

Edited by Risil, 26 March 2010 - 17:01.

[D-Type]

I was wondering this exact same thing yesterday. If the Second World War hadn't happened, and the 'big two' circuits on mainland Britain hadn't been requisitioned for military use, what might British motor racing have looked like in the '50s and '60s? Without a ready supply of paved facilities at places like Thruxton, Snetterton and Silverstone; and presumably without the French recourse to closing off sections of the public highways -- what would the non-Donington, non-Brooklands race driver have done? Speedway-style racing? I believe Midgets raced at Wembley for a brief period after the war...

They would have had Donington and Crystal Palace. The BARC knew Brooklands was out of date and had evolved the low cost "Campbell" and "Mountain" circuits at Brooklands.

Racing in Britain was moving towards road circuits as is shown by the Donington GPs, the opening of the Palace track and races on the IoM and Jersey. Had finance been available and a way around the noise issue found, then it is feasible that the BARC might have built a road course at Brooklands. It might even have been possible to successfully lobby Parliament to lift the ban on closing roads for racing. Had the E-Type ERA been successful when the GP formula moved to 1500cc in 1940 then the case for all these would have become stronger. As I write this I can see the pig carrying out its pre-flight checks.

[Vitesse2]

They would have had Donington and Crystal Palace.

... which were the shape of the future. More artificial road courses were the way forward, but where they'd have put them is another matter. At least three projects failed during the 30s and several others never even got past first base.

The BARC knew Brooklands was out of date and had evolved the low cost "Campbell" and "Mountain" circuits at Brooklands.

The Mountain Circuit had been all but abandoned by 1939 and unless the BARC gave up 10-lap handicaps Campbell circuit racing was going nowhere fast. By mid-39 Brooklands was being beaten hands down by Crystal Palace, which was attracting larger and larger crowds to better racing.

Racing in Britain was moving towards road circuits as is shown by the Donington GPs, the opening of the Palace track and races on the IoM and Jersey.

The RAC had no intention of going back to the Isle of Man - they'd lost too much money there - and I doubt races on Jersey would have happened if not for the war.

Had finance been available and a way around the noise issue found, then it is feasible that the BARC might have built a road course at Brooklands.

The noise issue would have been the big problem. The residents of St George's Hill would not have been amused ...

It might even have been possible to successfully lobby Parliament to lift the ban on closing roads for racing.

No chance. They would have argued that the legislation was already in place in Northern Ireland, so why introduce it elsewhere? But after the 1936 TT both Ards and Bangor were closed: only Ballyclare was used in 1937 and even that was abandoned in 1938 due to road improvements. AFAIK they didn't even apply for a date in 1939.

Had the E-Type ERA been successful when the GP formula moved to 1500cc in 1940 then the case for all these would have become stronger. As I write this I can see the pig carrying out its pre-flight checks.

Can we please nail this one? There would not have been a wholesale change to the GP Formula in 1940, although it's my belief that there were moves to run voiturette racing on a more formal basis. The CSI specifically ruled in October 1938 that the 3.0/4.5 Formula would remain valid until December 31st 1940 and I further believe that it could (and probably would) have been extended by at least a year, more probably two.

[David McKinney]

To get back OT, I know nothing about Longview, but the following airfield race meetings were run in 1946:

Apr 07 - Caversham, Western Australia
Jun 10 - Marsden Park, NSW, Australia
Jun 16 - Gransden Lodge, England
Aug 12 - Strathpine, Qld, Australia
Nov 11 - Seagrove, New Zealand
Nov 24 - Strathpine, Qld, Australia
Nov 24 - Seagrove, New Zealand

Possibly also racing at Ratmalana airport in Ceylon (as was), though that might not have been until 1947

[fuzzi]

Long Kesh airfield in Northern Ireland was used for a motorcycle race meeting in May 1945, as part of the VE Day celebrations. Two more motorcycle race meetings were held in the November of that year, but by then the Filton Sprint had been held on 28 October 45.

Edited by fuzzi, 26 March 2010 - 20:06.

[D-Type]

Vitesse 2 - that's why I said I could se the pigs getting ready to fly! Apart from Donington and the Palace, the rest sounded highly implausible.

But the real question for discussion here is whether anyone raced at an airfield prewar.

[Rob Semmeling]

Thanks Fuzzi - that's one I had overlooked! - and David for the interesting list of 1946 airfield races. Perhaps one addition for that year: the airfield race in Maldegem, Belgium on 6 October, albeit only for motorcycles.

[Ray Bell]

Not sealed, but most (as has been identified) weren't...

Penrith Speedway was built on the site of an airfield. No doubt aircraft still used the facility at the time racing was conducted... from 1924 IIRC.

[David McKinney]

Perhaps one addition for that year: the airfield race in Maldegem, Belgium on 6 October, albeit only for motorcycles.

Sorry, I don't regard motorcycling as "motor racing"

[Rob Semmeling]

Sorry, I don't regard motorcycling as "motor racing"

Arrgghh...*bites tongue* Better let's not go there

[Ray Bell]

Maybe we should put it this way...

'Motor Cycle Racing' has a separate sub-forum since people tried to introduce the subject to TNF.

[Rob Semmeling]

Going through Allan Brown's book again, I noticed the 1937 Longview race is listed twice, once in the Texas chapter and again in that for Washington. Both places have a nearby airport.

[Stephen W]

When was an airfield first used for racing?

We are once again stuck on definitions. An airfield would suggest a grass strip, An aerodrome may well indicate a surfaced runway.

Mind you there were regular flights from Southport beach where they also raced!

[LittleChris]

How about Littorio ?

[Vitesse2]

Hmmm ... yes! But IIRC Littorio was specifically designed as a joint aviation/motor sport facility (not many airfields incorporate banking!) OTOH, I think they did race on the runways ...

[ken devine]

The Caversham circuit is still completly intact and drivable,the straight is mostly unsealed but the D section althoug bumpy the surface
is reasonable.It has been used in recent years for the Caversham Festival.

[ggnagy]

Most prewar airfields were dirt, not paved.

I believe that the land used for the Roosevelt Raceway on Long Island in NY was part of a larger parcel of land made up of two airfields. Since the previous airfield was one big runway anyway, I could argue that the tracks used in the 36 and 37 Vanderbilt Cups were "airport courses"

[Terry Walker]

The "Brooklands" circuit in Western Australia, which lasted just two meetings in 1932, was built around the West Subiaco Areodrome, a grass strip - or probably paddock - used by one or two small-plane joy-flight outfits, about all we had in the state in that era. I guess it qualifies as a pre-war airfield circuit.

[Rob Semmeling]

I have compiled the following list of races held on paved airfield circuits from 1945-1947 (thanks Richard, Terry and Tomas, for your help, as well as earlier contributors to this thread) :

24.11.1945 Long Kesh, Northern Ireland (motorcycles)

07.04.1946 Caversham, Australia (autos & motorcycles)
10.06.1946 Marsden Park, Australia (autos)
15.06.1946 Gransden Lodge, England (autos & motorcycles)
22.06.1946 North Weald, England (motorcycles) - date to be confirmed
00.07.1946 Aldergrove, Northern Ireland (motorcycles) - or possibly on 29 june ?
11.08.1946 Strathpine, Australia (autos & motorcycles)
06.10.1946 Maldegem, Belgium (motorcycles)
03.11.1946 Ansty, England (motorcycles)
10.11.1946 Seagrove, New Zealand (autos) - or 11 november ?
24.11.1946 Seagrove, New Zealand (autos & motorcycles)
24.11.1946 Strathpine, Australia (autos & motorcycles)

27.01.1947 Marsden Park, Australia (autos)
27.01.1947 Ballarat, Australia (autos)
23.03.1947 Brough, England (motorcycles)
12.04.1947 Stapleford Tawney (Abridge), England (motorcycles)
13.04.1947 Seagrove, New Zealand (autos)
16.06.1947 Nowra, Australia (autos)
28.06.1947 Brough, England (autos) - cancelled
13.07.1947 Gransden Lodge, England (autos)
13.07.1947 Middelkerke, Belgium (motorcycles)
19.07.1947 Leeuwarden, Netherlands (autos & motorcycles)
27.07.1947 Livermore, California, United States (autos)
09.08.1947 Stapleford Tawney (Abridge), England (motorcycles)
10.08.1947 Strathpine, Australia (autos & motorcycles)
13.09.1947 Beverley, Australia (autos)
14.09.1947 Maldegem, Belgium (motorcycles)
28.09.1947 Florennes, Belgium (motorcycles)
28.09.1947 Tholthorpe, England (autos)
28.09.1947 Gardermoen, Norway (autos & motorcycles)
05.10.1947 Brough, England (motorcycles)
11.10.1947 Dunholme, England (motorcycles)
07.12.1947 Ratmalana, Sri Lanka (Ceylon) (autos)
00.00.1947 Aldergrove, Northern Ireland (motorcycles)
00.00.1947 Ansty, England (motorcycles)

If anyone can add anything, I'd be very interested !

I'm also having trouble finding out more about the Seagrove meetings and circuit - David ?

Edit 24.03.2013: the above list is now outdated, please download the Racing Circuits Factbook file from my website www.wegcircuits.nl for a more complete and up-to-date list.

Edited by Rob Semmeling, 24 March 2013 - 11:31.

[Geoff E]

http://en.wikipedia....use#Motor_Sport

[fuzzi]

If you are including sprint courses, there were these:

The Bristol Motorcycle and Light Car Club used Whitchurch Airfield (now Hengrove Park) near Bristol for a sprint on part of the perimeter road in May 1937 [covered in detail on Pete Stowe's excellent website]. This was the meeting where Robert Waddy crashed Fuzzi going for btd.

The first sprint meeting on the Austin Motors airfield, known as Cofton Hackett, was held on 11 May 1946. ‘Mr Bob’ Gerard set btd in one of his E.R.A.s in 28.2sec. The second meeting in October was run in rain, but Gerard set a new record of 27.0sec, chased home by Ian Connell in the E.R.A. (R5B) ‘Remus’ with 27.8. The spring meeting of 12 April 1947 was the first speed event of the year and Reg Parnell came down from Derby to take btd in 28sec.

The Midland Motor Enthusiasts Club planned to hold a race meeting on a simple course using one of the runways on 26 July 1947, but the event had to be cancelled, as the course could not be prepared in time. As noted above the Veteran Car Club organised their Longbridge Rally based on the Austin Works in July 1948 and ran a Relay Race and some one-lap sprints on the 1,408-yards Test Track. It is possible that this was located on the old airfield. The works were considerably extended in the early 1950s and the old airfield disappeared.

Edited by fuzzi, 09 March 2013 - 10:15.

[Rob Semmeling]

Thanks fuzzi, but indeed my list includes circuit races only.

Some additions:

27.01.1947 Caversham, Australia (autos) - why were Ballarat, Marsden Park and Caversham all held on the same day ?
20.04.1947 Gawler, Australia (motorcycles)
05.05.1947 Caversham, Australia (motorcycles)

Also corrected the date of the Beverley meeting from 15 October to 13 September.

[David McKinney]

why were Ballarat, Marsden Park and Caversham all held on the same day ?

They were all in different States - there would be no likely clash for entrants

Also, I think that date would have ben a national holiday (Australia Day)

[Rob Semmeling]

Yes, it was the Australia Day long weekend, but still...

David, can you add anything on Seagrove ? I don't have details about the course used there and also don't know if there was any racing in 1947.

Also, what is the correct date of the first meeting at Seagrove in 1946 - 10 or 11 November ?

[austmcreg]

They were all in different States - there would be no likely clash for entrants

Also, I think that date would have ben a national holiday (Australia Day)

David is correct. In 1947, there was almost nil private travel around Australia. The three circuits were in different states, vast distances from each other. It was not until the mid 1950s that interstate travel to attend race meetings was common, at least for ordinary meetings like these. Australia is a big country....

The Australia Day (it was called ANA day earlier maybe still in 1940s) holiday would have seen car and motorcycle racing events at venues in every state of Australia.

Rob Saward

[Ray Bell]

Definitely the case...

That's the very reason I never saw any 'Round The Houses' races in WA. I had intended to go to Geraldton in 1965, but I was asked to take photos at Lowood on the same day. No clash there, even though travel was a lot easier than in the serious fuel rationing period of the post-war years, but they were something like 3,000 miles apart.

Easter is another date on which there has always been apparent clashes. Hume Weir and Bathurst, less than 300 miles apart, were both on at Easter, while for a few years I think Phillip Island was on over that weekend too, Mallala got in on the act as well.

But there's four days of the Easter weekend, so racing at Hume Weir would be on Sunday, at Bathurst on the Monday, Phillip Island too, if I recall correctly. And probably Mallala.

The only weekend circuits didn't fight over was Mothers Day...

[austmcreg]

The newspaper clip below from the Hobart Mercury, 7th October 1946, related to the October 12, 1946 airstrip meeting at Tunbridge, Tasmania, would seem to add weight to the proposition that the Caversham meeting mentioned in the first post was the first in Australia.

This event was motorcycle only, but the club involved covered cars as well, and several later Tunbridge meetings had races for cars.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Was there really airstrip racing in Italy before the end of the war?

Rob Saward

Edited by austmcreg, 09 March 2013 - 13:14.

[Vitesse2]

Was there really airstrip racing in Italy before the end of the war?

Rob Saward

Not in any official sense as we would understand it, I'm sure. There were certainly ad hoc events run on UK airbases, probably usually while the CO was out of earshot: when you consider that lots of RAF types ran sports cars and had access to plenty of 100-octane Avgas from which nobody would miss the odd few gallons, it would be more surprising if they hadn't raced them!

As for Italy - my guess would be most likely something along the lines of Jeep races when there were no ops on or perhaps (as happened in Asmara in 1943) a few local performance cars being "liberated".

edit: As far as bikes are concerned, there was also the officially-sanctioned Bar-None Motorcycle Club, which was mainly based in Egypt and Palestine (the original idea being to keep the bored squaddies and erks away from the less healthy forms of entertainment to be found in Cairo!) I think they may have had some branches in Italy too.

Edited by Vitesse2, 09 March 2013 - 13:43.

[David McKinney]

David, can you add anything on Seagrove ? I don't have details about the course used there and also don't know if there was any racing in 1947.

Also, what is the correct date of the first meeting at Seagrove in 1946 - 10 or 11 November ?

I have it as the 10th, which was a Sunday. AFAIK there was no public holiday on the Monday, which pretty much rules out the 11th

There were meetings in 1947 on 13 April and in November, and possibly others as well

[Rob Semmeling]

Thank you, David.

The newspaper clip below from the Hobart Mercury, 7th October 1946, related to the October 12, 1946 airstrip meeting at Tunbridge, Tasmania, would seem to add weight to the proposition that the Caversham meeting mentioned in the first post was the first in Australia.

Rob, it would appear the road race mentioned in your article did not take place. The Launceston Examiner of 12 October writes that "if time permits, a short distance road race with a small field will also be conducted." But since race reports in the Mercury and Examiner of 14 October speak only of acceleration tests and sprints over the quarter mile and full mile, the race was presumably axed.

A Tunbridge meeting in March 1947 also included sprints only.

[Geoff E]

I have compiled the following list of races held on paved airfield circuits from 1945-1947 (thanks Richard, Terry and Tomas, for your help, as well as earlier contributors to this thread) :
11.10.1947 Dunholme, England (motorcycles)

 

Apparently there may have been a meeting the following year which included an F3 race http://www.silhouet....s/dunholme.html

[ron simmonds]

I don't think anyone has mentioned Melbourne's Fishermans Bend airstrip that was used for many years after the war. Always a popular event, as it was only about 10 minutes from the CBD. The airstrip was used by the Commonwealth Aircraft factory where they made planes for the war, and later on made the Nomad aircraft. The West Gate Bridge now passes over where the old strip was. It was  basically  set up as a big T with the track divided by using hay bales down each side. Cheers Simmo.

[Lee Nicolle]

Definitely the case...

That's the very reason I never saw any 'Round The Houses' races in WA. I had intended to go to Geraldton in 1965, but I was asked to take photos at Lowood on the same day. No clash there, even though travel was a lot easier than in the serious fuel rationing period of the post-war years, but they were something like 3,000 miles apart.

Easter is another date on which there has always been apparent clashes. Hume Weir and Bathurst, less than 300 miles apart, were both on at Easter, while for a few years I think Phillip Island was on over that weekend too, Mallala got in on the act as well.

But there's four days of the Easter weekend, so racing at Hume Weir would be on Sunday, at Bathurst on the Monday, Phillip Island too, if I recall correctly. And probably Mallala.

The only weekend circuits didn't fight over was Mothers Day...
In SA there has been an Easter Race Meeting for over 30 years. It was originally Austin 7 Club at AIR [this in my time] and has been both 1 and 2 day formats over the years. The date was sort of hijacked by SCCSA for the Historic Meeting that has happened well over 20 years now.
And the only thing that happens Monday is the Collingrove hillclimb.

[cooper997]

Apparently there may have been a meeting the following year which included an F3 race http://www.silhouet....s/dunholme.html

 

Sept 48 IOTA has an advert for the October 9, 1948 Dunholme event - 'The 500 Club Scratch Motor Car Race'. There's mention of the Car Race to start at 2.20pm.

 

Stephen

[terry mcgrath]

A wonderful list but I would query the word "paved" I would take this as meaning a sealed surface? ie bitumen tarmac etc Caversham, Strathpine, Beverley, Mooliabeenie, Brooklands Western Australia 1930-1933 would have been a compacted roadbase material that had a loose surface that would have been graded as required and either watered to stop dust or maybe covered in engine oil. The surface of Brooklands was cinders - waste from a furnace? terry

I have compiled the following list of races held on paved airfield circuits from 1945-1947 (thanks Richard, Terry and Tomas, for your help, as well as earlier contributors to this thread) :

24.11.1945 Long Kesh, Northern Ireland (motorcycles)

07.04.1946 Caversham, Australia (autos & motorcycles)
10.06.1946 Marsden Park, Australia (autos)
15.06.1946 Gransden Lodge, England (autos & motorcycles)
22.06.1946 North Weald, England (motorcycles) - date to be confirmed
00.07.1946 Aldergrove, Northern Ireland (motorcycles) - or possibly on 29 june ?
11.08.1946 Strathpine, Australia (autos & motorcycles)
06.10.1946 Maldegem, Belgium (motorcycles)
03.11.1946 Ansty, England (motorcycles)
10.11.1946 Seagrove, New Zealand (autos) - or 11 november ?
24.11.1946 Seagrove, New Zealand (autos & motorcycles)
24.11.1946 Strathpine, Australia (autos & motorcycles)

27.01.1947 Marsden Park, Australia (autos)
27.01.1947 Ballarat, Australia (autos)
23.03.1947 Brough, England (motorcycles)
12.04.1947 Stapleford Tawney (Abridge), England (motorcycles)
13.04.1947 Seagrove, New Zealand (autos)
16.06.1947 Nowra, Australia (autos)
28.06.1947 Brough, England (autos) - cancelled
13.07.1947 Gransden Lodge, England (autos)
13.07.1947 Middelkerke, Belgium (motorcycles)
19.07.1947 Leeuwarden, Netherlands (autos & motorcycles)
27.07.1947 Livermore, California, United States (autos)
09.08.1947 Stapleford Tawney (Abridge), England (motorcycles)
10.08.1947 Strathpine, Australia (autos & motorcycles)
13.09.1947 Beverley, Australia (autos)
14.09.1947 Maldegem, Belgium (motorcycles)
28.09.1947 Florennes, Belgium (motorcycles)
28.09.1947 Tholthorpe, England (autos)
28.09.1947 Gardermoen, Norway (autos & motorcycles)
05.10.1947 Brough, England (motorcycles)
11.10.1947 Dunholme, England (motorcycles)
07.12.1947 Ratmalana, Sri Lanka (Ceylon) (autos)
00.00.1947 Aldergrove, Northern Ireland (motorcycles)
00.00.1947 Ansty, England (motorcycles)

If anyone can add anything, I'd be very interested !

I'm also having trouble finding out more about the Seagrove meetings and circuit - David ?

Edit 24.03.2013: the above list is now outdated, please download the Racing Circuits Factbook file from my website www.wegcircuits.nl for a more complete and up-to-date list.

Edited by terry mcgrath, 22 September 2013 - 15:03.