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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#501 werks prototype

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 12:59

I thought Alonso was absolutely superb. Second best drive of the weekend, IMO. Really unluck twice with backmarkers not getting out of the way as they should: he could well have won that race.


He drove a solid race. But he was the third best driver. And very lucky regarding Webber and his gearbox/grid demotion. He is so very consistent though. Ferrari must be pleased.

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#502 Gareth

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 13:10

He drove a solid race. But he was the third best driver. And very lucky regarding Webber and his gearbox/grid demotion. He is so very consistent though. Ferrari must be pleased.

I thought Alonso's monstering of Hamilton before the 2nd stops, and bliserting pace once he forced Hamilton into an early pit, were fantastic. I'm not sure I saw anything from any other driver on Sunday that matched it. And Alonso was just as lucky as those around him re: Webber's demotion.

#503 abc

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 17:52

fernando wasn't outdriven at all, in terms of race pace he was quicker in most of the races by a big margin, I can't recall the stats right now but if I not mistaken it was sort of 11-5, the difference rooted in that extra lap hamilton had over and over again which impeded fernando to start in front of him, came to my mind that desperate strategy in silverstone, let alone all those reliability issues fernando suffered from time to time

Alonso was lighter in most cases during 2007 and even so he managed to have been outqualified quite severely. Fuel adjusted it was like 9:4 to Hamilton :rotfl: .

Edited by Gareth, 16 June 2010 - 18:25.


#504 abc

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 18:21

Alonsos bad luck in France quali was more than compensated with tire issues Lewis had in Germany and Turkey. Unfortunate event of Hungarian Q was more than compensated with dubious events for Lewis in last two races. There he lost 17 points, what today is 42 points, so Alonso rather lucked to finish on the same points.

#505 Arn

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 18:29

I'm sure it did help them, just as some features of the Ferrari help that car to go quick. But the point is the overtake wasn't just a case of "get behind the Ferrari and let the F-duct do its thing". There was a lot of skill in that overtake. The attempts to do it down as only due to the F-duct are incorrect, IMO.


I thought Alonso was absolutely superb. Second best drive of the weekend, IMO. Really unluck twice with backmarkers not getting out of the way as they should: he could well have won that race.

Buemi was not just traffic, he was racing for position and Lewis made the best of the opportunity.
Alonso made two crucial misjudgements so I would not rate it the second best drive of the race, maybe third.

#506 Gareth

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 18:33

Every time I say backmarkers someone comes back to me and says Buemi wasn't a backmarker. I know. That's why I said backmarkers, because I don't think Alonso was unlucky at all with Buemi so I wanted to exclude him from what I was saying!

#507 buzatlas

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 18:33

abc, let me refresh your memory:

http://f1-facts.com/...m-mates/FAlonso

#508 abc

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 18:55

abc, let me refresh your memory:

http://f1-facts.com/...m-mates/FAlonso


no need I dont go by heart. This site has quali 9 to 8 but they had to give Hungary to Alonso which is strange, Lewis was quicker whole weekend but couldnt do the quickest lap on low fuel and rubbered track and missed pole by 0,1sec. For me its clear 10:7 (taking also into account Alonso was relegated), fuel adjusted then 9:4, the rest undecided (too close to call).

Enough for me in this thread :wave:

Edited by abc, 16 June 2010 - 18:57.


#509 P123

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 19:01

Fernando just landed behind lewis in the Championship because He had the only Technical failure in France during that Season! And that costed him the Championship (besides the unfair Treatment of Dennis an Co.)


That championship was there for the taking for Alonso yet he screwed it up through numerous driving errors and falling out with his team. Blaming a technical failure in France qualifying is as idiotic and selective as the Schumacher fans who tenuously hold on to the wish that a non-finish at Suzuak cost him the '06 championship. Dennis may be a prat, but if you opened your eyes you may also see that Alonso's behaviour was hardly commendable either. When you have a teammate as good as Hamilton it's not the best tactic to start acting like a petulant primadonna.

#510 Massacrator

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 23:27

Alonso sets the car up better than Hamilton, that's why Hamilton benefited from Alonso in 2007 (and still tied in points). Now if you take into consideration the pressure on Alonso in 2007, the team against him, and the ego boost that Hamilton was having because of the great performing he was getting at his first year, you can clearly see who is the all best round driver in the grid: Alonso.

Once the F10 matches McLaren, byebye Hamilton.

#511 otoelpiloto

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 00:03

That championship was there for the taking for Alonso yet he screwed it up through numerous driving errors and falling out with his team. Blaming a technical failure in France qualifying is as idiotic and selective as the Schumacher fans who tenuously hold on to the wish that a non-finish at Suzuak cost him the '06 championship. Dennis may be a prat, but if you opened your eyes you may also see that Alonso's behaviour was hardly commendable either. When you have a teammate as good as Hamilton it's not the best tactic to start acting like a petulant primadonna.


did you know that gearbox had been spotted and classified as inoperative and replaceable by the team, and that "by mistake" was assembled in fernando's car? of course you don't know, english press wasn't interested at all to unveil it. Pdlr confirmed it publicly on tv whilst commenting the race

mclaren :down:

and his problem wasn't his teammate, the problem was a whole nation starved of f1 victories, keep it in your mind, it's a significant detail

Edited by otoelpiloto, 17 June 2010 - 00:05.


#512 otoelpiloto

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 00:08

Oh btw Lewis lost the wdc with the team's other technical failure :wave: .


your mechanical problem http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

I knew hamilton's been deliberatedly brought up as a mclaren robot, but not up to the point of considering his mistakes as mechanical failures :p

#513 danhnguyen

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 00:09

Alonso sets the car up better than Hamilton, that's why Hamilton benefited from Alonso in 2007 (and still tied in points). Now if you take into consideration the pressure on Alonso in 2007, the team against him, and the ego boost that Hamilton was having because of the great performing he was getting at his first year, you can clearly see who is the all best round driver in the grid: Alonso.

Once the F10 matches McLaren, byebye Hamilton.


You don't see the car this year ...?! From Bahrain to Montreal, who's "up better", LOL
Very Poor, Alonso :down:

Edited by danhnguyen, 17 June 2010 - 00:12.


#514 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 01:11

fernando wasn't outdriven at all, in terms of race pace he was quicker in most of the races by a big margin,

Laughable claim. He was not quicker in most races and I dont remember there being a race where he was quicker by a big margin (except for Silverstone, he was clearly much quicker there).


I can't recall the stats right now but if I not mistaken it was sort of 11-5,

What stats are you using? Fastest laps? Irrelevant stats. In anycase, if you counted fastest laps then you have been caught with your pants down. When it came to fastest laps, Alonso beat Hamilton 9:8

the difference rooted in that extra lap hamilton had over and over again which impeded fernando to start in front of him,

Ridiculous. There were cases where even with less fuel Alonso failed to outqualify Hamilton. In anycase, your extra lap theory does not hold water at all.

let alone all those reliability issues fernando suffered from time to time

Hamilton suffered more reliability issues than Alonso who suffered only one reliability issue throughout the season, I dont see you making a mention of that.


did you know that gearbox had been spotted and classified as inoperative and replaceable by the team, and that "by mistake" was assembled in fernando's car? of course you don't know, english press wasn't interested at all to unveil it. Pdlr confirmed it publicly on tv whilst commenting the race


Yes, I am sure McLaren gave Alonso a faulty gearbox on purpose. :rolleyes: Do you have no shame?

#515 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 08:10

Hamilton suffered more reliability issues than Alonso who suffered only one reliability issue throughout the season, I dont see you making a mention of that.

:stoned:
please list the (technical) reliability issues hamilton had?

#516 as65p

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 08:14

:stoned:
please list the (technical) reliability issues hamilton had?


"Magnetic glitch" in Brazil. :drunk: :smoking:

#517 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 08:20

"Magnetic glitch" in Brazil


that repaired itsself :stoned:
and you still believe in santa claus?

#518 pikamoku

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 08:46

LH vs. FA ? Again?

Come on guys, please come back to present day.


#519 as65p

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 08:49

that repaired itsself :stoned:
and you still believe in santa claus?


Watch out for the smilies!

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#520 Obi Offiah

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 08:58

Yeap. Lewis pressed the neutral button then spent half a minute trying to figure out how to put the car in gear. "Is it this knob down here" he thought reaching for the brake bias adjust, "Nope. Lets try this..", he presses the drinks button. Its incredible! He has obviously changed from neutral to 1st hundreds of times in the past, but on this occasion it was just too much for him. Having said that I seem to recall him flipping the gear selection paddles for gears during the 'incident', but I guess thats just a figment of my imagination. :p  ;)

#521 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 09:10

:stoned:
please list the (technical) reliability issues hamilton had?

Tyre failure at the Ring and the gearbox problem at Brazil.

Now I am sure Otoelpiloto will name the many problems Alonso had.

#522 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 09:24

Tyre failure at the Ring and the gearbox problem at Brazil.

tyre failure at the ring, hadnt an effect on the race due to rain (where he made a mistake!)
gearbox problem at brazil is just a rumour, a statement made by mclaren to protect lewis inability to win the championship!



#523 abc

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 09:27

Alonsos bad luck in France quali was more than compensated with tire issues Lewis had in Germany and Turkey. Unfortunate event of Hungarian Q was more than compensated with dubious events for Lewis in last two races. There he lost 17 points, what today is 42 points, so Alonso rather lucked to finish on the same points.

#524 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 09:29

Alonsos bad luck in France quali was more than compensated with tire issues Lewis had in Germany and Turkey.

in germany the tyre issue (qualy) didnt affect the outcome of the race, due to rain!

in turkey lewis tyre problems costed him less than alonsos tyre problems in canada!

#525 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 09:29

tyre failure at the ring, hadnt an effect on the race due to rain (where he made a mistake!)

Actually, it did have an effect. If I remeber correctly, a BMW hit Hamilton in the 2nd corner and broke his tyre, which cost him time. Without the problem in qualy, this wouldnt have happened.

gearbox problem at brazil is just a rumour, a statement made by mclaren to protect lewis inability to win the championship!

:rolleyes: :rotfl: Congrats. This is one of the funniest things I have ever read.

Did you watch the race? If so, do you think Lewis slowed because he forgot which is the brake pedal and which is the throttle? If you think so, let me just say that Alonso forgot how to change gears at France and there was no mechanical problem with his car whatsoever.


#526 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 09:34

:rolleyes: :rotfl: Congrats. This is one of the funniest things I have ever read.

poor life of yours :smoking:
lewis made some mistakes in brazil 07 and just one of those was his inability to press the right button!

#527 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 09:35

Actually, it did have an effect. If I remeber correctly, a BMW hit Hamilton in the 2nd corner and broke his tyre, which cost him time. Without the problem in qualy, this wouldnt have happened.

you remember wrong, lewis made just a mistake and landed in the gravel (due to aquaplaning)

#528 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 09:35

poor life of yours :smoking:
lewis made some mistakes in brazil 07 and just one of those was his inability to press the right button!


:rotfl:
Reality, my friend, is not your friend.

#529 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 09:36

you remember wrong, lewis made just a mistake and landed in the gravel (due to aquaplaning)

That happened too, but what I said happened too. So you remember wrong.

#530 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 09:38

:rotfl:
Reality, my friend, is not your friend.

is that your argumentation? than let us two not argue anymore :cool:

#531 buzatlas

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 09:39


Enough for me in this thread :wave:



#532 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 09:42

is that your argumentation? than let us two not argue anymore :cool:

When your argument is that he didnt know how to push the right button, there is nothing to left to argue about.

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

If something so obvious doesnt clear it up for you, what is there left to argue about?




#533 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 09:53

what should be obvious on that?
that a round or some rounds before, where he was off the track he damaged something on his car!


#534 Massacrator

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 09:57

You don't see the car this year ...?! From Bahrain to Montreal, who's "up better", LOL
Very Poor, Alonso :down:

You know that before every GP, drivers and mechanics have to set up the car for that track, right?

That's exactly what I meant. But still, developing the car too. Next year the car will be a lot better developed than this season, because half of this season's car was developed throught the last season, and Fernando wasn't obviously there.

Edited by Massacrator, 17 June 2010 - 09:57.


#535 Obi Offiah

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 10:02

what should be obvious on that?
that a round or some rounds before, where he was off the track he damaged something on his car!

You seem to have changed your tune YellowHelmut. Funnily enough I was going to post of this varying of opinion. Initially you said he pressed the wrong button, but when Cheap Wine Alesi presents footage that shows this not to be the case, you change you reason to Lewis having an off as the cause. I find it had to believe that this: Lewis 2007 Brazil off caused the gearbox issue. Also the gearbox seemed to work well enough for a lap.

Edited by Obi Offiah, 17 June 2010 - 10:04.


#536 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 10:06

You seem to have changed your tune YellowHelmut. Funnily enough I was going to post of this varying of opinion. Initially you said he pressed the wrong button, but when Cheap Wine Alesi presents footage that this is not the case, you change you reason to him having an off as the cause. I find it had to believe that this: Lewis 2007 Brazil off cased the gearbox issue.

in the middle of the first corner you see him pressing a button and from then on he shifts up and down without any affect!
and my nick is not ...helmut


#537 Obi Offiah

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 10:11

in the middle of the first corner you see him pressing a button and from then on he shifts up and down without any affect!
and my nick is not ...helmut

Apologies for the typo YellowHelmet. :)
Where do you see this, in which video?
Hav you seen this: Hamilton Brazil 2007 Gearbox issue.

#538 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 10:11

now i watched the video again. and it seems that lewis for first just shiffted up, and it didnt work and than later he shifted down and up and it worked!

#539 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 10:14

Apologies for the typo YellowHelmet. :)
Where do you see this, in which video?
Hav you seen this: Hamilton Brazil 2007 Gearbox issue.

in the one CWA posted, look at the first corner and than after the second corner he presses that buttom several times again! I think his problem was not down shiffting till first gear and than up, and rather trying up shiffting for about 20 seconds!

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#540 abc

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 10:17

Yeah Buzatlas you caught me there.

I have to go it seems :up: if my issue is not Alonso but only some deluded fans.



#541 fed up

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 11:01

"Our car's race pace was good enough for victory. Let's hope that, in the future, there won't be mistakes in pushing a button nor in lapping cars that put us at a disadvantage, because we've already gone though that."


Luca
:cat:




#542 buzatlas

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 11:12

Seems to me that the period of adaptation Alonso/Ferrari is over. Must deliver now. Hopefully the Valencia upgrades are good enough and Alonso can concentrate enough to get everything right and call the champions luck back to him. Canada was indeed a lost opportunity: he should inflict there a win in the Mclaren terrain as Schumacher has done in 2003 beating both Williams at Montreal.

Let's be honest: if Ferrari doesn't win in the next 2-3 races they must say goodbye to championships. A lot of pressure for Alonso. I'm sure he will deliver. smoking.gif

I've done some calculations and Alonso must have 4 top results (1st and 2nd places) in the next 6 races (including Monza) to be in the hunt. Valencia, Hungay and Monza possibly best chances. Hopefully Spa will be wet. At Hochenheim and Silverstone he will need proper luck.

#543 Yorkie

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 11:21

The point is that people continue to trot out the line that Alonso 'got spanked/beaten/humiliated etc. by Lewis'.

This is clearly a lie.

The natural retort that follows "..but Lewis is a rookie...Alonso should have beaten him easily" is somewhat irrelevant when
a) Lewis probably test drove the car more than Alonso did before the season started
b) Lewis is one of the most naturally gifted F1 drivers to have emerged in the past decade
c) Alonso had more trouble adapting to Bridgestone tyres and the McLaren in 2007 than Lewis did.

Alonso was consistently faster (but only just) than Lewis over the 2nd half of the season.

I would suggest that both Alonso and Hamilton are probably the two outstanding talents on the grid at the moment.

I think that most people would agree with that

Those two Points are Important! Lewis and bridgestone. Because that proves that He is Not that good on other tyres! In 2006 when Montoya got kicked Lewis had the Chance to Test and He was over half a Second of the pace on the Michelin tyres! On Michelin tyres Lewis was by far Not that fast as on Bridgestones!

It was his first test in a F1 car, do you know the season Vettel was test driver to Kubica and Heidfeld he was consistently half a second slower, also in Lewis's first test session with Alonso on a damp track Lewis crashed and Alonso questioned whether Lewis should have been given the drive and his buddie PDLR should have been racing instead.

So sad you have to go back to 2006 to find fault with Lewis ignoring whats reality in 2010

no need I dont go by heart. This site has quali 9 to 8 but they had to give Hungary to Alonso which is strange, Lewis was quicker whole weekend but couldnt do the quickest lap on low fuel and rubbered track and missed pole by 0,1sec. For me its clear 10:7 (taking also into account Alonso was relegated), fuel adjusted then 9:4, the rest undecided (too close to call).

Enough for me in this thread :wave:

I do the qua;ifying comparisons myself, fuel corrected Lewis beat Alonso 9-8 being on average 0.07s quicker

Alonso sets the car up better than Hamilton, that's why Hamilton benefited from Alonso in 2007 (and still tied in points). Now if you take into consideration the pressure on Alonso in 2007, the team against him, and the ego boost that Hamilton was having because of the great performing he was getting at his first year, you can clearly see who is the all best round driver in the grid: Alonso.

Once the F10 matches McLaren, byebye Hamilton.

In 2007 Lewis was a ROOKIE

in germany the tyre issue (qualy) didnt affect the outcome of the race, due to rain!

in turkey lewis tyre problems costed him less than alonsos tyre problems in canada!

Alonso had tyre problems in Canada?

Isnt that the race where he was constantly off the track?

You know that before every GP, drivers and mechanics have to set up the car for that track, right?

That's exactly what I meant. But still, developing the car too. Next year the car will be a lot better developed than this season, because half of this season's car was developed throught the last season, and Fernando wasn't obviously there.

Yes Alonso did a great job with the 2009 Renault :well: :rolleyes:



#544 TigersWood

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 11:29

Fernando just needs to be in a good team, like Ferrari, and specially a team whose boss doesn`t say "we were racing Fernado, not Kimi", as the great Ron said in China 2007.

But you know, there was a lot of equality in that team and Alonso is just paranoic.

With only that he can be champion.



#545 prty

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 11:32

Alonsos bad luck in France quali was more than compensated with tire issues Lewis had in Germany and Turkey. Unfortunate event of Hungarian Q was more than compensated with dubious events for Lewis in last two races. There he lost 17 points, what today is 42 points, so Alonso rather lucked to finish on the same points.


In Germany he later spun out of the race, and in Turkey it was his fault as confirmed by Bridgestone, so I don't know what does that compensate.

#546 cardin

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 12:14

The point is that people continue to trot out the line that Alonso 'got spanked/beaten/humiliated etc. by Lewis'.

This is clearly a lie.

The natural retort that follows "..but Lewis is a rookie...Alonso should have beaten him easily" is somewhat irrelevant when
a) Lewis probably test drove the car more than Alonso did before the season started
b) Lewis is one of the most naturally gifted F1 drivers to have emerged in the past decade
c) Alonso had more trouble adapting to Bridgestone tyres and the McLaren in 2007 than Lewis did.

Alonso was consistently faster (but only just) than Lewis over the 2nd half of the season.

I would suggest that both Alonso and Hamilton are probably the two outstanding talents on the grid at the moment.


You gave as an excuse Alonso didn't get 'spanked/beaten/humiliated etc. by Lewis' the fact that... 'Lewis is one of the most naturally gifted F1 drivers to have emerged in the past decade' . That has got to be one of the funniest things ever written in this BB.


#547 otoelpiloto

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 12:21

Laughable claim. He was not quicker in most races and I dont remember there being a race where he was quicker by a big margin (except for Silverstone, he was clearly much quicker there).

laughable claim yours is, specially when this stats show it http://f1-facts.com/...m-mates/FAlonso. quicker by a big margin, monaco, silverstone, germany, indi

What stats are you using? Fastest laps? Irrelevant stats. In anycase, if you counted fastest laps then you have been caught with your pants down. When it came to fastest laps, Alonso beat Hamilton 9:8

yet fernado is ahead, just a system in which number of 2nd positions clarifies who is to be in front. http://f1-facts.com/...m-mates/FAlonso

Ridiculous. There were cases where even with less fuel Alonso failed to outqualify Hamilton. In anycase, your extra lap theory does not hold water at all.

ridiculous was mclaren and his way to manage hungary, I remind you without such sanction alonso would be world champion again, plus tell one single race where fernando was outqualified with less fuel.

Hamilton suffered more reliability issues than Alonso who suffered only one reliability issue throughout the season, I dont see you making a mention of that.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: sorry man, couldnt resist you even sound funny. I'll never forget what alonso was told by a mclaren engineer in turkey "fernando, you don't know how easy it is to make a car less competitive" strange breaches on chasis, tyre pressures, limited engines, malfunctioning gearboxes...


Yes, I am sure McLaren gave Alonso a faulty gearbox on purpose. :rolleyes: Do you have no shame?

you see? it's not difficult to see it was done on purpose, obvious when you desperately need a british champion after decades of thirst. the ones who had no shame were those managing mclaren


#548 AlanWake

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 12:27

Recently, Ducati gifted Alonso this Moto GP bike :love:

Posted Image



#549 Biggles Flies Undone

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 13:58

it is racism, he's conditioning all latin drivers into a general and wrong idea


Once again your wrong. Dennis was talking about a category of driver that was once quite common in the sport
IE. The latin playboy type from a rich family bankrolling the hobby.
None of these pay drivers ever won a race.

Edited by Biggles Flies Undone, 17 June 2010 - 14:51.


#550 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 14:07

Once again your wrong. Dennis was talking about a category of driver that was once quite common in the sport
IE. The latin playboy type from a rich family bankrolling the hobby.

you are not talking about senna, or fitipaldi or massa?

it is racism to construe a weakeness of some drivers and emphasize where they are from and throw them into a category.

Just imagine that justin wilson or some other drivers would be a category for some european drivers!

Edited by YellowHelmet, 17 June 2010 - 14:08.