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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#5851 kanishkl

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 02:02

Wrong. Massa is starting just fine. Alonso is not a good starter. Never was.


"The start did not give me problems - said Alonso - the McLaren was too strong, I had problems with the soft, then hard they are worn behind another car."

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#5852 zeph

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 02:06

Alonso, by far, has the most illustrious career of any of them (2 WDCs, twice runner up. He's lost by 1 pt and 4 pts in the newer, higher scoring system, thats 5 in total) and can almost be considered the elder statesman considering how young they're hiring nowadays. The next few years are going to be very good.


:up: This

#5853 ViMaMo

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 02:12

Most eagerly waiting for 2011 winter tests. Go Fernando !!

#5854 cheapracer

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 02:29

Alonso has nothing to prove, a 3th worldtitle wouldn't have added to his stature,....

Alonso will get more chances to win worldtitles


So if he can't add to his stature why do you care if he will get more chances?

At an Ex-Pat's bar last night and about 100 of us watched Star Sport's coverage and every body was hoping Alonso would not win the WDC and everybody was cheering Petrov on and you should have heard the applause when Kubica came out of the pits in front, the guy is universally hated for his bad attitude and the language posed at Alonso when he gave Petrov curry after the race isn't repeatable here - what a bad loser.

As a Schumacher fan I think it's awesome that his spin ultimately cost Alonso the WDC although Renault did most of the job on Alonso and McLaren.

I value the opinions of people in the sport much more than people on the internet.


..and straight back at you.

Edited by cheapracer, 15 November 2010 - 02:32.


#5855 Hole

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 02:36

So if he can't add to his stature why do you care if he will get more chances?

At an Ex-Pat's bar last night and about 100 of us watched Star Sport's coverage and every body was hoping Alonso would not win the WDC and everybody was cheering Petrov on and you should have heard the applause when Kubica came out of the pits in front, the guy is universally hated for his bad attitude and the language posed at Alonso when he gave Petrov curry after the race isn't repeatable here - what a bad loser.

As a Schumacher fan I think it's awesome that his spin ultimately cost Alonso the WDC although Renault did most of the job on Alonso and McLaren.



..and straight back at you.


Universally hated? And we have to take your word about that bar you talked about? Even if true, your bar represents the world?

Ironic your words come from a Schumacher fan, who tried directly to take out rivals from the track. And he did! Even got a championship revoked due it.

I don't think Alonso is universally hated, just that as Hamilton or your Schumacher he has his temper and will attract hate too. I don't think mocking at your team mates or rivals as Vettel did ("Webber is crazy", "the engines isues for Fernando, etc") or Hamilton with the "It's not my problem if others don't have ball to brake later" are not much different than just waving a fist.

I'll take some weeks off from this forum because it's sheer trolling what one see around here.

Edited by AdamKOR, 15 November 2010 - 02:41.


#5856 zeph

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 02:46

At an Ex-Pat's bar last night and about 100 of us watched Star Sport's coverage and every body was hoping Alonso would not win the WDC and everybody was cheering Petrov on and you should have heard the applause when Kubica came out of the pits in front, the guy is universally hated for his bad attitude and the language posed at Alonso when he gave Petrov curry after the race isn't repeatable here - what a bad loser.


Oh my, the world must revolve around that sportsbar, then.

So Alonso took his frustration out on Petrov, not classy. But hey, he just lost the WDC, I feel him. And in the post-race interview he conceded that Petrov had done nothing wrong and drove a good race.

End of the story. I don't even see why some people felt the need to start a new thread about it and then ramble on for 12 pages.


#5857 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 02:51

I still think saying 'he was defending like it was the last lap of the WDC' is basically saying he didn't think petrov should have fought so hard. So I don't think he's being 2 faced, I think that's what he's saying (after he's called down).


Alonso discussing the finer points of Petrov's race and giving him some free advice! "Petrov you fight too hard .... etc, etc."

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Edited by halifaxf1fan, 15 November 2010 - 02:57.


#5858 Raelene

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 02:52

Universally hated? And we have to take your word about that bar you talked about? Even if true, your bar represents the world?

Ironic your words come from a Schumacher fan, who tried directly to take out rivals from the track. And he did! Even got a championship revoked due it.

I don't think Alonso is universally hated, just that as Hamilton or your Schumacher he has his temper and will attract hate too. I don't think mocking at your team mates or rivals as Vettel did ("Webber is crazy", "the engines isues for Fernando, etc") or Hamilton with the "It's not my problem if others don't have ball to brake later" are not much different than just waving a fist.

I'll take some weeks off from this forum because it's sheer trolling what one see around here.



which championship did Schumacher have revoked???

BTW I gree I on't hate Alonso - in fact I really like him, so he's not universally hated ;) ;')

#5859 WilliamsFWPH

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 02:56

Alonso discussing the finer points of Petrov's race and giving him some free advice!

Posted Image




Basically, he is saying to Petrov - "That was ridiculous! Why you didn't understood that I was faster than you?"

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#5860 Dunder

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 02:58

It is fair to say that I am not a fan of Fernando Alonso (or Ferrari) but on balance I think he was the driver that most deserved to win the championship.

We can't ignore the early season mistakes but since Monza he has driven pretty much flawlessly in a car that was not really a match for the RB6. In a way it mirrored Hamilton in the early part of the season but history shows us that mistakes tend to count for more at the "business end" of the season.

Vettel also drove very well but that is much easier in a car which has been the fastest at the vast majority of circuits.

After the last 3 years, I am glad that Alonso is now in a team where he looks to be happy and comfortable and hope that next year is as fascinating and competitive as this one has been *

* and that McLaren have the fastest car
.

#5861 simplyfast

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 03:41

Indeed. He acted like a massive cock to Petrov after the race. There is no other way to look at it.
What is worse is that he goes to the press afterwards and says Petrov did well. Shows how two-faced he is with the press. His fans are buying it but Im not.

I am certain it was not his real feelings but much more likely his team pointing out their sponsors would not enjoy such publicity.
He forgot he is supposed to be a professional and acted much more like you would expect of a ten year old at a school sports day who just lost a race they think they should have won, than a grown up man who is paid millions not just to race but to represent the companies that pay his wages in a good light.
Yes he raced today but clearly he failed on the representing his sponsors in a manner they expect.

#5862 simplyfast

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 03:45

It is fair to say that I am not a fan of Fernando Alonso (or Ferrari) but on balance I think he was the driver that most deserved to win the championship.

but what about the cheated 7 points you seam to have missed them out.
Which is more important to you?
winning fairly or winning at any cost?

#5863 HPT

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 04:13

Twice Alonso has been in close WDC battles and both times hes choked.

The only way he can win the WDC is if he has the best car AND the other cars continuously break down.


He choked? Man, if you don't understand F1, I suggest you don't comment on it. Makes you look really dumb.

#5864 Dunder

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 04:19

but what about the cheated 7 points you seam to have missed them out.
Which is more important to you?
winning fairly or winning at any cost?


I have always believed that rue 39.1 was both dumb and unenforceable and said so in the various 'team orders' threads at the time.




#5865 HPT

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 04:26

People who claimed Alonso choked have no clue about F1. Maybe they are just being deliberately idiotic. He soaked up the pressure and put the car 3rd on the grid. The team made a bad strategic call under the most stressful of situation, but Alonso didn't choke. Did he have an input on the decision? Maybe, maybe not. Bear in mind he doesn't have all the data available like the strategists at the pitwall do. He didn't know how many cars have pitted, he didn't know how many seconds they were in front of him and whether he would emerge in front or behind them after stopping. In a clear cut situation like Japan 08 for example, he thought he could jump Kubica by pitting early because that situation wasn't as complex as this one. Sometimes a driver makes the decision but most other times the strategists do.

But there's no point putting blame. It was a team mistake. It was anything but Alonso choking. Those that claim he did so can continue embarrassing themselves if that makes them happy. Alonso fans will continue to believe in him.

Anyways, congratulations to Vettel and Red Bull. Can't say they don't deserve it, so well done!

#5866 HPT

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 04:31

Ferrari wouldn't have been put in a situation to make a difficult strategy call if Alonso had a good start and managed to keep Button behind him. Alonso even started from the clean side. That was the mistake that really snowballed with the help of the team, really. I wonder why everyone's glossing over the mistake Fernando made at the start. Vettel managed to keep Hamilton behind at the start.


I watched the replay of the start from Alonso's onboard. He reacted even quicker than Vettel did, but was losing ground almost immediately. But somehow Button got the better start. Perhaps McLaren have a better start system than Ferrari. It's not unusual that one team has better start system than another. For a while the Red Bulls' starts were shit until they sorted it out.

#5867 boldhakka

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 04:33

People who claimed Alonso choked have no clue about F1. Maybe they are just being deliberately idiotic. He soaked up the pressure and put the car 3rd on the grid. The team made a bad strategic call under the most stressful of situation, but Alonso didn't choke. Did he have an input on the decision? Maybe, maybe not. Bear in mind he doesn't have all the data available like the strategists at the pitwall do. He didn't know how many cars have pitted, he didn't know how many seconds they were in front of him and whether he would emerge in front or behind them after stopping. In a clear cut situation like Japan 08 for example, he thought he could jump Kubica by pitting early because that situation wasn't as complex as this one. Sometimes a driver makes the decision but most other times the strategists do.

But there's no point putting blame. It was a team mistake. It was anything but Alonso choking. Those that claim he did so can continue embarrassing themselves if that makes them happy. Alonso fans will continue to believe in him.

Anyways, congratulations to Vettel and Red Bull. Can't say they don't deserve it, so well done!


He didn't choke. But he made a mistake at the start and let Button through. Vettel managed to keep Hamilton behind. Massa managed a good start in the same car. This was the mistake that forced the Ferrari pit wall into making a difficult decision, which they messed up further.

He was the only one of the top six to have lost a spot, even though he started from the clean side.

But I understand why you chose to ignore the bad start in your summary above.

#5868 Vilenova

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 04:36

If Fred had kept Button behind at the start, he would be champion right now.

Instead he is whining about the Renault when they were just racing.

#5869 boldhakka

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 04:53

I watched the replay of the start from Alonso's onboard. He reacted even quicker than Vettel did, but was losing ground almost immediately. But somehow Button got the better start. Perhaps McLaren have a better start system than Ferrari. It's not unusual that one team has better start system than another. For a while the Red Bulls' starts were shit until they sorted it out.


Perhaps. But it would be nice if you referred to it in your summaries.

Anyway, consider your own point. Vettel with a poorer reaction time than Alonso (according to you), managed to keep a McLaren behind while Alonso couldn't. There are many parameters in a start including how one drops the clutch, controls wheel spin, etc. It's a tad suspicious that you immediately blame the car and don't bring up this potential mistake from Alonso in your posts at all. Sure, it could be the car or Alonso's mistake, we don't know that. But you can't just gloss over it in your posts.

It was the most crucial aspect of how the race proceeded to unfold. Ferrari would never have been placed in the position they were if Fernando hadn't lost the place at the start. Yet I'm sure you'll continue glossing over this.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm just referring to this post of yours:

People who claimed Alonso choked have no clue about F1. Maybe they are just being deliberately idiotic. He soaked up the pressure and put the car 3rd on the grid. The team made a bad strategic call under the most stressful of situation, but Alonso didn't choke. Did he have an input on the decision? Maybe, maybe not. Bear in mind he doesn't have all the data available like the strategists at the pitwall do. He didn't know how many cars have pitted, he didn't know how many seconds they were in front of him and whether he would emerge in front or behind them after stopping. In a clear cut situation like Japan 08 for example, he thought he could jump Kubica by pitting early because that situation wasn't as complex as this one. Sometimes a driver makes the decision but most other times the strategists do.

But there's no point putting blame. It was a team mistake. It was anything but Alonso choking. Those that claim he did so can continue embarrassing themselves if that makes them happy. Alonso fans will continue to believe in him.

Anyways, congratulations to Vettel and Red Bull. Can't say they don't deserve it, so well done!


I think you could have been more objective, that's all. Otherwise you seem to have a pretty balanced view and I have no other beef with you.

Edited by boldhakka, 15 November 2010 - 04:59.


#5870 HPT

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 05:14

Perhaps. But it would be nice if you referred to it in your summaries.

Anyway, consider your own point. Vettel with a poorer reaction time than Alonso (according to you), managed to keep a McLaren behind while Alonso couldn't. There are many parameters in a start including how one drops the clutch, controls wheel spin, etc. It's a tad suspicious that you immediately blame the car and don't bring up this potential mistake from Alonso in your posts at all. Sure, it could be the car or Alonso's mistake, we don't know that. But you can't just gloss over it in your posts.

It was the most crucial aspect of how the race proceeded to unfold. Ferrari would never have been placed in the position they were if Fernando hadn't lost the place at the start. Yet I'm sure you'll continue glossing over this.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm just referring to this post of yours:



I think you could have been more objective, that's all. Otherwise you seem to have a pretty balanced view and I have no other beef with you.


I omitted the fact that he lost a place to Button at the start because I don't consider that as choking. He was in the position to lose a place because he out-qualified Button in what looks to be a quicker McLaren in qualifying. The clutch settings are all controlled by electronics. Perhaps there is more to it than that and I don't want to go into a debate on that as I'm not too well-versed with how the system works.

His start can be considered a mistake by some, but certainly not by me. Drivers get overtaken at the start all the time. He got overtaken by one car - hardly can be considered choking if you asked me. As I've said, the team (which includes Alonso as he is part of the team) made some mistakes, not just yesterday but the season as a whole. We can't pin the blame on losing the title solely on yesterday. I mean, where do we start? Ferrari would never have been placed in the position if Fernando hadn't lost a place, Ferrari and Alonso wouldn't have had to worry about Petrov and Rosberg had Schumacher not spun and brought out the SC, they would have Massa played rear-gunner had he completed his final qualifying lap, etc. etc.

Bottom line is, for those who claimed that Alonso lost the title last night because he choked are being overly simplistic about the situation and are simply trolling. Wouldn't you agree?

#5871 simplyfast

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 06:16

I have always believed that rue 39.1 was both dumb and unenforceable and said so in the various 'team orders' threads at the time.

while it is your right to think any rule is dumb, stupid, retarded or whatever, the fact remains its still a rule that should be followed by all the teams and drivers.
To ignore that fact is to invite any driver to do what they want and ignore any rule they don't like which in the end means no rules.
Teams sign up and agree to abide by the rules as written not pick and choose which rules they will follow and which they will break.


#5872 velgajski1

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 06:56

I omitted the fact that he lost a place to Button at the start because I don't consider that as choking. He was in the position to lose a place because he out-qualified Button in what looks to be a quicker McLaren in qualifying. The clutch settings are all controlled by electronics. Perhaps there is more to it than that and I don't want to go into a debate on that as I'm not too well-versed with how the system works.

His start can be considered a mistake by some, but certainly not by me. Drivers get overtaken at the start all the time. He got overtaken by one car - hardly can be considered choking if you asked me. As I've said, the team (which includes Alonso as he is part of the team) made some mistakes, not just yesterday but the season as a whole. We can't pin the blame on losing the title solely on yesterday. I mean, where do we start? Ferrari would never have been placed in the position if Fernando hadn't lost a place, Ferrari and Alonso wouldn't have had to worry about Petrov and Rosberg had Schumacher not spun and brought out the SC, they would have Massa played rear-gunner had he completed his final qualifying lap, etc. etc.

Bottom line is, for those who claimed that Alonso lost the title last night because he choked are being overly simplistic about the situation and are simply trolling. Wouldn't you agree?


Alonso lost his title no yesterday but in first half of season where he was less than impressive.

Yesterday, Ferrari did same as McLaren in 2008. - prepare conservative race that they planned on controlling and it ended up in tears.

Edited by velgajski1, 15 November 2010 - 06:57.


#5873 F1TonSoup

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 07:05

Bottom line is, for those who claimed that Alonso lost the title last night because he choked are being overly simplistic about the situation and are simply trolling. Wouldn't you agree?


Agree, he didn't lose because he choked, he lost because circumstances proved the early pit-stop strategy wrong.

That being said, I am very glad that he (and Ferrari) did lose, for the way they treated Kimi last year and also for the way they treated Massa this year, telling him to move over and hand Fred the victory on a silver platter. Yeah, I'm glad it blew up in Ferrari's face today.

#5874 HPT

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 08:54

Agree, he didn't lose because he choked, he lost because circumstances proved the early pit-stop strategy wrong.

That being said, I am very glad that he (and Ferrari) did lose, for the way they treated Kimi last year and also for the way they treated Massa this year, telling him to move over and hand Fred the victory on a silver platter. Yeah, I'm glad it blew up in Ferrari's face today.


You're entirely entitled to have an opinion and if your opinion is that you're glad that he lost, I can respect that. At least you can be objective and just be glad of the outcome, unlike some posters on here who simply want to stir things :up:

#5875 boldhakka

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 08:59

...

Bottom line is, for those who claimed that Alonso lost the title last night because he choked are being overly simplistic about the situation and are simply trolling. Wouldn't you agree?


Yep, agreed. :up:

#5876 gaston_foix

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 10:11

Despite the errors he made at the end of Q3 of the last race ALonso put his team in the best situation to win this title. He did his job in the 2nd and often 3rd car of the grid against a superb RedBull car.
After turn 1 was champion even with Button ahead of him. He did the job for which he was employed. It was the team that he should have made their job. They didn't...

Alonso has no blame. I repeat. After the turn1 he put the team in the best position to win this title. The team didn't deliver... End of story.



#5877 Flamini

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 10:19

Alonso has no blame. I repeat. After the turn1 he put the team in the best position to win this title. The team didn't deliver... End of story.


Of course not, Alonso did nothing wrong yesterday.

It's changing so quickly.

He was a dog after Spa.
He was a king between Monza and Abu Dhabi qualy.
And now he is a dog again? :lol: What exactly he did wrong yesterday in third fastest car in Abu Dhabi?

#5878 boldhakka

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 10:21

Despite the errors he made at the end of Q3 of the last race ALonso put his team in the best situation to win this title. He did his job in the 2nd and often 3rd car of the grid against a superb RedBull car.
After turn 1 was champion even with Button ahead of him. He did the job for which he was employed. It was the team that he should have made their job. They didn't...

Alonso has no blame. I repeat. After the turn1 he put the team in the best position to win this title. The team didn't deliver... End of story.


Alonso and the team aren't separate entities. He shouldn't have lost that spot to Button at the start. Vettel kept the other McLaren behind. That lost position forced the team into a no-win situation which they botched even further in hindsight. They lost it together and it was partly Alonso's fault but mostly the pit wall's.


#5879 Oho

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 10:22

Despite the errors he made at the end of Q3 of the last race ALonso put his team in the best situation to win this title. He did his job in the 2nd and often 3rd car of the grid against a superb RedBull car.
After turn 1 was champion even with Button ahead of him. He did the job for which he was employed. It was the team that he should have made their job. They didn't...

Alonso has no blame. I repeat. After the turn1 he put the team in the best position to win this title. The team didn't deliver... End of story.



I thought Alonso was supposed to be far more than just a driver and that is in big part why he was hired to replace Räikkönen. Guess I was wrong.

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#5880 boldhakka

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 10:24

Of course not, Alonso did nothing wrong yesterday.

It's changing so quickly.

He was a dog after Spa.
He was a king between Monza and Abu Dhabi qualy.
And now he is a dog again? :lol: What exactly he did wrong yesterday in third fastest car in Abu Dhabi?


Botched the start. He was otherwise blameless though.

#5881 Flamini

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 10:29

Botched the start. He was otherwise blameless though.


Right, but before that he put the car on P3 in qualy, so he was faster than Button and Webber in faster cars.

Do you agree with me that Red Bull and McLaren were faster than Ferrari in Abu Dhabi?

#5882 cheapracer

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 10:31

Universally hated? And we have to take your word about that bar you talked about? Even if true, your bar represents the world?

Ironic your words come from a Schumacher fan, who tried directly to take out rivals from the track. And he did! Even got a championship revoked due it.

I don't think Alonso is universally hated, just that as Hamilton or your Schumacher he has his temper and will attract hate too. I don't think mocking at your team mates or rivals as Vettel did ("Webber is crazy", "the engines isues for Fernando, etc") or Hamilton with the "It's not my problem if others don't have ball to brake later" are not much different than just waving a fist.

I'll take some weeks off from this forum because it's sheer trolling what one see around here.


Actually that bar has an amazing representation from all over the world, a few of us bought the lone Spanish guy a few beers, we gave him hell :lol:

I have no idea what your Schumacher comments, as wrong as they are, have to do with this thread but feel free to pop over to the Schumacher thread with your accusations.

There have been issues such as a major crash between Vettle and Webber that led to Vettle's comments but Petrov did NOTHING WRONG except block Alonso's ego.

If Alonso was serious he would be already campaining to change this stupid situation that has so severely bitten him where a car thats 1 second a lap faster finds it impossible to even attempt to pass let alone actually pass - but that would require a selfless attitude.


#5883 boldhakka

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 10:46

Right, but before that he put the car on P3 in qualy, so he was faster than Button and Webber in faster cars.

Do you agree with me that Red Bull and McLaren were faster than Ferrari in Abu Dhabi?


Sure. :confused: I was just answering your question actually.

Let me see where you're going with this. So you're saying Alonso's rightful place in qualifying was somewhere around P5, so his awesome P3 was a bonus. Therefore, his mistake at the start where he lost one position to Button was cancelled out by his excellent Q3 performance (in fact his tally comes out ahead by one position). So all in all he did a great job this weekend and so we mustn't count or mention his botched start as a "mistake"?

Fair enough. It's one way of looking at things I guess. I personally don't think a good job yesterday cancels out a bad job today, but I see how one might think that.

#5884 fed up

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 10:57

I omitted the fact that he lost a place to Button at the start because I don't consider that as choking. He was in the position to lose a place because he out-qualified Button in what looks to be a quicker McLaren in qualifying. The clutch settings are all controlled by electronics. Perhaps there is more to it than that and I don't want to go into a debate on that as I'm not too well-versed with how the system works.

His start can be considered a mistake by some, but certainly not by me. Drivers get overtaken at the start all the time. He got overtaken by one car - hardly can be considered choking if you asked me. As I've said, the team (which includes Alonso as he is part of the team) made some mistakes, not just yesterday but the season as a whole. We can't pin the blame on losing the title solely on yesterday. I mean, where do we start? Ferrari would never have been placed in the position if Fernando hadn't lost a place, Ferrari and Alonso wouldn't have had to worry about Petrov and Rosberg had Schumacher not spun and brought out the SC, they would have Massa played rear-gunner had he completed his final qualifying lap, etc. etc.

Bottom line is, for those who claimed that Alonso lost the title last night because he choked are being overly simplistic about the situation and are simply trolling. Wouldn't you agree?


look at this picture;

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/88296

Alonso's line was way too wide into turn 1 - he was practically gifting the position to Button :down:

For me though, my admiration for the guy has gone up 10 fold. I'm still not a fan, but I accept he is the best driver in F1 and, but for a strategic error would have been WDC.

F1 is very difficult when you have to aim for a certain *mediocre* position in the race. These guys only know flat out, so when you ask them to drive for 5th place, 4th place or whatever to be WDC, they often struggle:

Kimi had nothing to lose in 2007 - he just had to drive flat out and win
Massa had nothing to lose in 2008 - he just had to drive flat out and win
Vettel had nothing to lose in 2009/2010 - ditto

Alonso will be back, Lewis will be back and Vettel is now up with the big boys.

Fun times :cat:

#5885 Gareth

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 11:04

look at this picture;

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/88296

Alonso's line was way too wide into turn 1 - he was practically gifting the position to Button :down:

That picture doesn't tell the whole story by any stretch.

Button had more than just a nose ahead, and the inside line, when they entered the braking zone for that corner. The damage was done off the line. At that point, 3rd place was gone and the only thing Alonso could do was try and get in a good position to attack Button off the exit and make sure he didn't put his car in position to get hung out to dry by Jenson and risk losing another spot. The line he took was perfect for that: allowed him to slot in behind Button and get a good exit off the apex. That corner was good driving from Alonso, IMO.

The interesting bit about the start, to me, was his move left: after we heard radio pre-race to him suggesting staying right was the best option for grip.


#5886 boldhakka

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 11:07

look at this picture;

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/88296

Alonso's line was way too wide into turn 1 - he was practically gifting the position to Button :down:

For me though, my admiration for the guy has gone up 10 fold. I'm still not a fan, but I accept he is the best driver in F1 and, but for a strategic error would have been WDC.

F1 is very difficult when you have to aim for a certain *mediocre* position in the race. These guys only know flat out, so when you ask them to drive for 5th place, 4th place or whatever to be WDC, they often struggle:

Kimi had nothing to lose in 2007 - he just had to drive flat out and win
Massa had nothing to lose in 2008 - he just had to drive flat out and win
Vettel had nothing to lose in 2009/2010 - ditto

Alonso will be back, Lewis will be back and Vettel is now up with the big boys.

Fun times :cat:


That picture was well after he had already lost P3 to Jenson. He was going for the switch-back move to attack Jenson and also cover P4 from Webber. He took that corner quite well once the start picture was clear. He shouldn't have botched the start, but that's a different story.

Edit: Gareth says it better above me.

Edited by boldhakka, 15 November 2010 - 11:07.


#5887 Mr2s

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 11:10

look at this picture;

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/88296

Alonso's line was way too wide into turn 1 - he was practically gifting the position to Button :down:


Button had a great start, Alonso tried to block him off but had to swerve back a bit as Button got the better of him. That photo doesn't tell the whole story, Alonso was already behind and looking for another option.

Alonso will be back, Lewis will be back and Vettel is now up with the big boys.

Fun times :cat:


Well said. That's the way I see it. Credit to the drivers, they are all already positive and looking forward to next season whist the bickering and digs will no doubt go on in here until March.





#5888 Mr2s

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 11:14

Botched the start. He was otherwise blameless though.


Botched?
Alonso's start was normal. Just that Button had a better one.

#5889 Mr2s

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 11:18

if Fred had kept Button behind at the start, he would be champion right now.


Good point. But Button had a great start.

Instead he is whining about the Renault when they were just racing.


Bad point

"I tried to pass him once and he protected like it was the last lap"
"But he drove very well, he made no mistakes. I think next year we will try again."

#5890 rhukkas

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 11:18

People who claimed Alonso choked have no clue about F1. Maybe they are just being deliberately idiotic. He soaked up the pressure and put the car 3rd on the grid. The team made a bad strategic call under the most stressful of situation, but Alonso didn't choke. Did he have an input on the decision? Maybe, maybe not. Bear in mind he doesn't have all the data available like the strategists at the pitwall do. He didn't know how many cars have pitted, he didn't know how many seconds they were in front of him and whether he would emerge in front or behind them after stopping. In a clear cut situation like Japan 08 for example, he thought he could jump Kubica by pitting early because that situation wasn't as complex as this one. Sometimes a driver makes the decision but most other times the strategists do.

But there's no point putting blame. It was a team mistake. It was anything but Alonso choking. Those that claim he did so can continue embarrassing themselves if that makes them happy. Alonso fans will continue to believe in him.

Anyways, congratulations to Vettel and Red Bull. Can't say they don't deserve it, so well done!


He choked... end off debate.

#5891 kosmos

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 11:57

Fernando won the DHL Fastest Lap Award, not much, but another reason to praise his first season in Ferrari.

http://www.formula1....stest_laps.html

#5892 as65p

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 12:04

Fernando won the DHL Fastest Lap Award, not much, but another reason to praise his first season in Ferrari.

http://www.formula1....stest_laps.html


He-he, over in the McLaren thread Hamiltons engineer thinks Lewis won it. :drunk:

Not that it matters much...

#5893 as65p

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 12:06

He choked... end off debate.


Did that sophisticated argumentation style ever work for you in real life? Just curious... :)

#5894 kosmos

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 12:07

New blog entry.

In love with Ferrari

http://www.ferrari.c...th-ferrari.aspx



#5895 ForzaGTR

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 12:07

Hamilton fans will say Alonso choked because all we hear from Alonso fans is that Hamilton choked in Brazil in 2007.

Truth is neither of them choked, Hamilton had a gear box problem and Alonso was screwed by his pitwall.

Alonso did botch the start of the race though.

#5896 tifosiMac

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 12:08

He-he, over in the McLaren thread Hamiltons engineer thinks Lewis won it. :drunk:

Not that it matters much...

5 a piece, but WDC position earns him the title maybe?

#5897 scheivlak

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 12:11

5 a piece, but WDC position earns him the title maybe?

Fernando wins it on countback as he has the most second-fastest laps.

#5898 tifosiMac

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 12:11

Hamilton fans will say Alonso choked because all we hear from Alonso fans is that Hamilton choked in Brazil in 2007.

Truth is neither of them choked, Hamilton had a gear box problem and Alonso was screwed by his pitwall.

Alonso did botch the start of the race though.

There was also alot of talking about Hamilton "choking" in Brazil this year when he made a mistake and let Alonso through. I didn't agree with that at all, but maybe now the boot is on the other foot and theres a chance to say the same about Fernando its just not appreciated. Its all school yard stuff at the end of the day and comes down to people taking petty digs at each other and not being able to take it when its returned. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander and all that. :)

#5899 tifosiMac

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 12:11

Fernando wins it on countback as he has the most second-fastest laps.

Ah right thats fair enough. :)

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#5900 as65p

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 12:11

5 a piece, but WDC position earns him the title maybe?


Formula1.com says this:

* Alonso and Hamilton both set five fastest laps. Alonso takes the Award by virtue of setting more second-fastest laps.