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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#551 undersquare

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 14:11

Once again your wrong. Dennis was talking about a category of driver that was once quite common in the sport
IE. The latin playboy type from a rich family bankrolling the hobby.


Yep, seems not everyone has heard of Ayrton Senna :lol:

Or noticed Pedro, maybe he's not successful enough to be rated Spanish.

Meanwhile I'm surprised Ron hasn't been accused of being anti-Viking, after falling out with Kimi over discipline and dumping Heikki...

Alonso's reputation really needs that 3rd wdc, without the tyre advantage and in the Hamilton era.

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#552 Watkins74

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 14:18

You guys made me check my calendar. It is 2010 where I am. :lol:

Edited by Watkins74, 17 June 2010 - 14:19.


#553 MichaelPM

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 14:23

As soon as Alonso gets slightly competitive and challenges other top drivers this board explodes from those "fans" attacking Alonso's past and present.

After all these years it is just a fact of life which is best ignored, don't feed to trolls.

#554 Slartibartfast

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 14:32

Fernando just needs to be in a good team, like Ferrari, and specially a team whose boss doesn`t say "we were racing Fernado, not Kimi", as the great Ron said in China 2007.

But you know, there was a lot of equality in that team and Alonso is just paranoic.

With only that he can be champion.

I don't why I'm surprised that people still (willfully?) misinterpret Dennis' words, but I am. The emphasis is always placed on the "we" when it should be on the "racing".
The word "racing" is not analogous to "hindering", "impeding" or "sabotaging".

"We were racing Nelsinho" - Flavio Briatore?
"We were racing Barrichello/Massa/Irvine" - Jean Todt?

#555 nestor

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 14:34

Yep, seems not everyone has heard of Ayrton Senna :lol:

Or noticed Pedro, maybe he's not successful enough to be rated Spanish.

Meanwhile I'm surprised Ron hasn't been accused of being anti-Viking, after falling out with Kimi over discipline and dumping Heikki...

Alonso's reputation really needs that 3rd wdc, without the tyre advantage and in the Hamilton era.


What tyre advantange dude ? as far as I remember there were more drivers besides Alonso driving on Michelin tyres ( including the Kimi and JPM ) and they all fail to win the WDC , so what's your point there ?
You are not going to say anything about MS winning at least 3 of his 5 concecutive WDC's thanks to a superior performance of his Bridgestone tyres compare to the Michelins ? ( in a time that Michelins was learning the ropes again) , point is you just like to bash FA ...

#556 Mika Mika

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 14:37

As soon as Alonso gets slightly competitive and challenges other top drivers this board explodes from those "fans" attacking Alonso's past and present.

After all these years it is just a fact of life which is best ignored, don't feed to trolls.


:up:

#557 undersquare

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 14:45

What tyre advantange dude ? as far as I remember there were more drivers besides Alonso driving on Michelin tyres ( including the Kimi and JPM ) and they all fail to win the WDC , so what's your point there ?
You are not going to say anything about MS winning at least 3 of his 5 concecutive WDC's thanks to a superior performance of his Bridgestone tyres compare to the Michelins ? ( in a time that Michelins was learning the ropes again) , point is you just like to bash FA ...


Well Ferrari effectively being taken out of 2005 was certainly a help, wouldn't you say? That only left Kimi's engine to help Fernando out by letting go a few times. And in 2006 Bernie had to force some teams to go with Bridgestone because the Michelins were still so much better.

Anyway it would enhance FA's rep now wouldn't it, to win on a control tyre?

#558 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 14:47

Anyway it would enhance FA's rep now wouldn't it, to win on a control tyre?

:rotfl:
bashers arguments
:rotfl:

#559 yr

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 14:48

As soon as Alonso gets slightly competitive and challenges other top drivers...


What was it that prevented Alonso being competitive so far? As far as I know, Ferrari was fastest in raceday and second only to Redbull in quals when season started. If driver really makes differance, then surely Alonso should be leading standings by a healthy margin by now. Your "Alonso gets slightly competitive and challenge other top drivers..." must mean the driver - not car - because there was nothing wrong with a car in first 5 or 6 races compared to competitors. Well, yeah, lets hope Alonso gets slightly competitive, because it would be nice to see that even one Ferrari driver wouldnt waste one of best seats in grid totally like they both have done so far.


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#560 marcm

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 14:48

Well Ferrari effectively being taken out of 2005 was certainly a help, wouldn't you say? That only left Kimi's engine to help Fernando out by letting go a few times. And in 2006 Bernie had to force some teams to go with Bridgestone because the Michelins were still so much better.

Anyway it would enhance FA's rep now wouldn't it, to win on a control tyre?


Does that therefore invalidate Schumachers championships where the Bridgestones were the better tyre? :confused:

#561 otoelpiloto

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 14:52

Yep, seems not everyone has heard of Ayrton Senna :lol:

Or noticed Pedro, maybe he's not successful enough to be rated Spanish.

Meanwhile I'm surprised Ron hasn't been accused of being anti-Viking, after falling out with Kimi over discipline and dumping Heikki...

Alonso's reputation really needs that 3rd wdc, without the tyre advantage and in the Hamilton era.


that included pedro, whom we are extremely pleased of having as a countryman btw, but he's latin, never was treated by mclaren like he deserved, never got a seat after years of dedication to the team, even was humilliated by neglecting him against kova.

thanks to daddy dennis

and yes, his comment was very racist, coming from him I wasn't surprised though

#562 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 14:53

because there was nothing wrong with a car in first 5 or 6 races compared to competitors. Well, yeah, lets hope Alonso gets slightly competitive, because it would be nice to see that even one Ferrari driver wouldnt waste one of best seats in grid totally like they both have done so far.

what was wrong, they were just in two races (in bahrain and canada) of 8 able to fight for the victory!
nothing to do with the drivers!
and still alonso is close to the leaders!

#563 fabr68

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 15:07

On Saturday, Ferrari was slower than Mclaren and Red Bull as well. Alonso finished the race behind the fastest cars with the third best car of the grid.

Lets wait until the F10 can qualify on Pole before throwing the stones.

There are 11 races to go and it isn't over until the fat lady sings.

#564 undersquare

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 15:09

that included pedro, whom we are extremely pleased of having as a countryman btw, but he's latin, never was treated by mclaren like he deserved, never got a seat after years of dedication to the team, even was humilliated by neglecting him against kova.

thanks to daddy dennis

and yes, his comment was very racist, coming from him I wasn't surprised though


Well even as a non-fan I think Fernando deserves a better defence than Ron Dennis being 'racist' :rolleyes: . Why do you think I mentioned Senna and Pedro?

Did it not seep through that these guys were/are Latin? And that they both were chosen by Ron and had great relationships with him?

#565 yr

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 15:11

what was wrong, they were just in two races (in bahrain and canada) of 8 able to fight for the victory!
nothing to do with the drivers!
and still alonso is close to the leaders!


Driving over white line when wet and thus dropping in midpack and crashing there, jump starting, crashing in fp3 and thus skipping qual, waiting in pits for rain to stop while it actually is getting heavier and everybody else are on track arent exactly cars fault. Ferrari was capable of fighting for win or at least podiums in all those cases - driver weren´t though.


#566 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 15:19

Driving over white line when wet and thus dropping in midpack and crashing there,

he was hit by the winner of that race

jump starting,

he just lost one place to the place he started

crashing in fp3 and thus skipping qual,

thats pity



waiting in pits for rain to stop while it actually is getting heavier

team decision, not to forget the gear box problems in that race and the engine blow up


Ferrari was capable of fighting for win or at least podiums in all those cases - driver weren´t though.

for podiums maybe but not for win!

but even with counting those races ferrari were in 4 of 8 races capable of fighting for podium and alonso landed 3 times on podium!

even with this inferrior car, he would be leading the championship without the backmarkers in canada :up:



#567 yr

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 15:24

he was hit by the winner of that race

he just lost one place to the place he started


thats pity



team decision, not to forget the gear box problems in that race and the engine blow up



for podiums maybe but not for win!

but even with counting those races ferrari were in 4 of 8 races capable of fighting for podium and alonso landed 3 times on podium!

even with this inferrior car, he would be leading the championship without the backmarkers in canada :up:


:lol:

#568 fabr68

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 15:26

Driving over white line when wet and thus dropping in midpack and crashing there, jump starting, crashing in fp3 and thus skipping qual, waiting in pits for rain to stop while it actually is getting heavier and everybody else are on track arent exactly cars fault. Ferrari was capable of fighting for win or at least podiums in all those cases - driver weren´t though.


Was it Ferrari or was Alonso alone capable of such fighting?

The reason of the apparent "capability" of the F10 in Alonso's hands is because he has been extremely aggressive to compensate for the F10's lack of pace and get ahead of the superior cars:
- Drive over the white line (to try go pass on the start)
- Jump start (to get past the blistering Red Bulls as start was the only option to get ahead)
- Crashing at Monaco (to test agressive aero setup)
- Waiting in the pits for rain to stop (to get better lap) Mclaren did this as well but nobody cares to remember

Remove all the aggressive moves above and the F10 gets the speed and finishing positions shown by Massa.


#569 yr

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 16:07

Was it Ferrari or was Alonso alone capable of such fighting?


Yeah, thats one thing we never know for sure. Its as relevant as ask "is Redbull really fastest car this season, or do they just have fastest drivers". Well there is always some indicators we could use to judge which car is good and which is bad. One thing which suggests that Ferrari was a car to beat in race pace, and second fastest in qual pace after Redbull when season started, is the lap times each team made in winter tests, the other is statements from Ferrari camp (including Alonso himself).

What reasons you have to doubt that Ferrari wasnt superior to all others except perhaps Redbull (and even that only in quals)?


#570 Massacrator

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 16:24

215 McLaren-Mercede
193 RBR-Renault
161 Ferrari

109 Lewis Hamilton
106 Jenson Button
103 Mark Webber
094 Fernando Alonso
090 Sebastian Vettel
067 Felipe Massa

Constructor standings represent the power of the car overall. Now if you lower RBR and McLaren points to Ferrari's and you substract the WDC points to the drivers too, it would look like this:

161 McLaren-Mercedes (215-161=54 - 54/2=27 - 27 is what you substract to the drivers)
161 RBR-Renault (193-161=32 - 32/2=16 - 16 is what you substract to the drivers)
161 Ferrari

These would be the actual standings if the cars were about the same:

94 Fernando Alonso
87 Mark Webber (103-16)
82 Lewis Hamilton (109-27)
79 Jenson Button (106-27)
74 Sebastian Vettel (90-16)
67 Felipe Massa

This doesn't prove a shit, but it gives you a overview of who's the boss.

#571 Brandz07

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 16:30

215 McLaren-Mercede
193 RBR-Renault
161 Ferrari

109 Lewis Hamilton
106 Jenson Button
103 Mark Webber
094 Fernando Alonso
090 Sebastian Vettel
067 Felipe Massa

Constructor standings represent the power of the car overall. Now if you lower RBR and McLaren points to Ferrari's and you substract the WDC points to the drivers too, it would look like this:

161 McLaren-Mercedes (215-161=54 - 54/2=27 - 27 is what you substract to the drivers)
161 RBR-Renault (193-161=32 - 32/2=16 - 16 is what you substract to the drivers)
161 Ferrari

These would be the actual standings if the cars were about the same:

94 Fernando Alonso
87 Mark Webber (103-16)
82 Lewis Hamilton (109-27)
79 Jenson Button (106-27)
74 Sebastian Vettel (90-16)
67 Felipe Massa

This doesn't prove a shit, but it gives you a overview of who's the boss.


OMG :rotfl:

you guys really are desperate

#572 yr

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 16:33

This doesn't prove a shit


Well, you´ve got that one right. :lol:


#573 buzatlas

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 16:35

That only means Alonso much better than Massa - your job done Massacrador!

Everyone is now speaking in terms of 5 drivers to win this championship, both Mclaren and Red Bull drivers and Alonso.
If you discount Button and one of the Red Bulls you will see that Hamilton and the other Red Bull will really push for big points in the next races so Alonso can't count anymore with 3rds and 4ths to be in touch. He needs to win races.

#574 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 16:44

He needs to win races.

And hopefully from Valencia on the car will allow this!
Vamos Alonso :clap:

#575 metz

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 16:48

That only means Alonso much better than Massa - your job done Massacrador!

Everyone is now speaking in terms of 5 drivers to win this championship, both Mclaren and Red Bull drivers and Alonso.
If you discount Button and one of the Red Bulls you will see that Hamilton and the other Red Bull will really push for big points in the next races so Alonso can't count anymore with 3rds and 4ths to be in touch. He needs to win races.

Actually, AMuS just completed a detailed review of what development is in the plans for each team.
http://www.auto-moto...el-1892321.html
They agree that the WDC is probably out of reach for Rosberg, Massa and Kubica.
Of the remaining top 5, they give the best chance to Alonso.
This is based on their research, not just some wishful thinking.

#576 yr

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 16:57

And hopefully from Valencia on the car will allow this!
Vamos Alonso :clap:


Well, car has allowed both Ferrari drivers win everywhere else bar Turkey. Monaco and Canada tracks were actually screaming for Ferrari win, but drivers were not up to it.

#577 Massacrator

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 16:58

This is based on their research, not just some wishful thinking.

Apparently my "wishful thinking" gives out the same result as their "extensive research".

And somehow I'm not surprised :smoking:

#578 Brandz07

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 16:58

Actually, AMuS just completed a detailed review of what development is in the plans for each team.
http://www.auto-moto...el-1892321.html
They agree that the WDC is probably out of reach for Rosberg, Massa and Kubica.
Of the remaining top 5, they give the best chance to Alonso.
This is based on their research, not just some wishful thinking.


how can he be favourite? honestly, its a joke. one race where we have a freak tire incident, along with a very different track, where ferrari do well (3rd) and now he's going to claw back those points and win the whole thing! at turkey, a true test of all the cars characteristics with the slow, fast and medium corners, ferrari were battling with renault for god sake! behave

#579 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 16:59

Well, car has allowed both Ferrari drivers win everywhere else bar Turkey. Monaco and Canada tracks were actually screaming for Ferrari win, but drivers were not up to it.

sure!

In canada the car screamed for win, but the backmarkers shouted those screams!

here a wonderful song fernando

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#580 otoelpiloto

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 17:04

Well, car has allowed both Ferrari drivers win everywhere else bar Turkey. Monaco and Canada tracks were actually screaming for Ferrari win, but drivers were not up to it.


get a life man :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: you'll find something more interesting than bashing fernando all the time

#581 yr

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 17:04

here a wonderful song fernando


:rotfl:


#582 yr

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 17:05

get a life man :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: you'll find something more interesting than bashing fernando all the time


What bashing? Stating the truth is not allowed anymore?

#583 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 17:05

i am glad you like it ;)

#584 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 17:06

What bashing? Stating the truth is not allowed anymore?

sure it is, but why dont you do it :confused:

#585 otoelpiloto

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 17:08

What bashing? Stating the truth is not allowed anymore?


ferrari fighting with renaults and mercedes and it's all of a sudden the best car out there without any big upgrade but drivers don't deliver :rotfl: :rotfl: what a truth!!!

#586 AlanWake

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 17:12

Actually, AMuS just completed a detailed review of what development is in the plans for each team.
http://www.auto-moto...el-1892321.html
They agree that the WDC is probably out of reach for Rosberg, Massa and Kubica.
Of the remaining top 5, they give the best chance to Alonso.
This is based on their research, not just some wishful thinking.


Well I don't know German so I can't read anything on that site.

The WDC now is obviously Hamilton's to lose. For me, the big favorite to win this WDC is Hamilton, not Alonso.

But things change quickly so we'll see...

#587 Flamini

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 17:12

What bashing? Stating the truth is not allowed anymore?


No, it is bashing. When Haug, Whitmarsh, Renault guys and others from F1 say that Alonso is very good and you say that he is avarage...sorry, this is bashing.

http://f1reports.com...=...;y=2012&m=6 Remember this news?

Edited by Flamini, 17 June 2010 - 17:13.


#588 yr

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 17:15

sure it is, but why dont you do it :confused:


Well I did. You guys just dont seem to be able to accept that even if Alonso has clearly had tools to lead WDC by a huge margin, he has made mistakes left and right and center, just to make sure he wont lead the standings. Thats a shame, as nobody knows how the season will develop from here, but all those lost points (I mean those that were thrown away by mistakes of FA) will be dearly missed when season is over. Thats my prediction. :wave:

#589 Flamini

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 17:25

Well I did. You guys just dont seem to be able to accept that even if Alonso has clearly had tools to lead WDC by a huge margin, he has made mistakes left and right and center, just to make sure he wont lead the standings. Thats a shame, as nobody knows how the season will develop from here, but all those lost points (I mean those that were thrown away by mistakes of FA) will be dearly missed when season is over. Thats my prediction. :wave:


Easy, in 2008 Hamilton crashed into Raikkonen ass in Canada, crashed into Alonso ass in Bahrain, had a very poor start in Japan. As far as i remember also crashed in practice in Bahrain (was it 2008? ok, but he was able to take part in qualy, so this doesn't matter)

Alonso wants only to copy Hamilton - win WDC in season with serious errors.

#590 Ferrari2183

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 17:28

Well I don't know German so I can't read anything on that site.

The WDC now is obviously Hamilton's to lose. For me, the big favorite to win this WDC is Hamilton, not Alonso.

But things change quickly so we'll see...

Well, I can't read german either, but my opinion is that Ferrari are fairly low down on their development curve whereas others are fairly high up. In the very least higher than Ferrari. I just hope the update works and it gives the drivers a chance at regular victories. To me it's clear the reason for Alonso's mistakes is that he is over driving the car. I base this on Massa's performances.

#591 yr

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 17:30

ferrari fighting with renaults and mercedes and it's all of a sudden the best car out there without any big upgrade but drivers don't deliver :rotfl: :rotfl: what a truth!!!


They have been fighting Renaults and Mercedes in Turkey. Period.

Before that (perhaps with the exception of Spain) they were fastest or as fast as Redbulls in race pace and second only to redbull in qual pace. Admit it, you will feel better when you dont need to try and find stupid excuses anymore.

I would also say that not winning in Canada or Monaco is truly amazing underperfomance on drivers side.

1.People always go on about how Great Driver can make a difference, eh?
2.Monaco especially and Canada too are tracks were driver can make a differance.
3. Both of those tracks suited well for Ferrari.
4. Both GPs were run in softer tyres that were better for Ferrari.

Where was dominant victory from Fernando in both of those races? Am I missing something here? If he is such an incredible driver which nobody cant match, shouldnt he lap everybody in races where he has conditions 1-4 I listed above?

#592 Flamini

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 17:38

I would also say that not winning in Canada or Monaco is truly amazing underperfomance on drivers side.


Truly amazing underperformance in Canada? Don't be silly. McLaren was as fast as Ferrari (or faster) in race and a little faster in qualy. Truly amazing underperformance is when you have clearly faster car than rivals. Was Ferrari clearly faster than McLaren in Canada?

#593 otoelpiloto

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 17:39

They have been fighting Renaults and Mercedes in Turkey. Period.

Before that (perhaps with the exception of Spain) they were fastest or as fast as Redbulls in race pace and second only to redbull in qual pace. Admit it, you will feel better when you dont need to try and find stupid excuses anymore.

I would also say that not winning in Canada or Monaco is truly amazing underperfomance on drivers side.

1.People always go on about how Great Driver can make a difference, eh?
2.Monaco especially and Canada too are tracks were driver can make a differance.
3. Both of those tracks suited well for Ferrari.
4. Both GPs were run in softer tyres that were better for Ferrari.

Where was dominant victory from Fernando in both of those races? Am I missing something here? If he is such an incredible driver which nobody cant match, shouldnt he lap everybody in races where he has conditions 1-4 I listed above?


I don't look for any stupid excuses, ferrari is the 3rd car on the grid, period, and yet alonso is fighting for the championship, it's at the end of a season when a driver makes a difference, not in 2 circuits where a driver can excel for whatsoever reasons.
1. as I've told you, drivers make the difference throughout a season, I don't like the vettels or massas excelling in certain circuits and fading away the rest of the races.
2. the driver made the difference, specially in canada where massa was one lap behind, without the unlucky incident in monaco fernando would have won the race, making again the difference as you remark
3. both of those tracks suited ferrari well? or alonso excelled as a driver making a difference, massa was nowhere in canada and just average in monaco.
4. tyres? :stoned:


#594 otoelpiloto

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 17:42

back to 2007 season, I've found something I'd like to share, quite remarkable indeed IMHO

John L Sharp's view of Fernando vs Lewis

MONACO: where this muddle started. Team orders were issued (to slow down) to preserve the engine for the next race (when Alonso, after 2nd pit stop had a +10sec advantage on Hamilton and close to 1 min on Massa). Alonso limited his car rpm down to 17000 rpm. Hamilton "failed" to listen and his complaint initiated an FIA investigation. No foul play. Alonso faster than Hamilton!

INDIANAPOLIS: No orders were given to reduce rpms. Alonso was undoubtedly faster than Hamilton. Alonso tried just once to overtake Hamilton. Failed, but his reaction in the following lap suggested that maybe, just maybe, he was stopped from trying again by team orders. At least this would have been the consensus amongst English press should that have happened the other way round!! Alonso did not "request" the FIA to investigate what to everyone's eyes was more suspicious than what had "happened" in MONACO. Yes, Hamilton won the US GP (but Alonso outpaced Hamilton there!)And this includes all way throughout Q1, Q2 and Q3, until the very last extra flying lap (as also occurred previously in Canada).And we know that this season, apart from when there is a mechanical failure or significant human error, P1 is equivalent to victory (that's why enjoying that extra flying lap in Q3 is soooo important - with less fuel)

MAGNY-COURS: mechanical problems for Alonso with the gear change system and suspension hydraulics or electronics. I can't remember now. No foul play. Probably bad luck?. Hamilton faster than Alonso!

SILVERSTONE: pole for Hamilton (this was clearly planned to satisfy British supporters). We know what happened after. Alonso faster than Hamilton!

NURBURGRING: Hamilton's incident. Alonso had the same problem with his car. Only he was luckier. I could not compare performances as Hamilton may have been physically in a poorer condition. But I have to give Alonso the benefit of the doubt in this one. Alonso faster than Hamilton!

HUNGARORING: the second incident. Naughty boys (both Hamilton and Alonso)! Alonso actually was faster when he did his best lap (faster than Hamilton with same fuel loads). Of course, Hamilton intentions were to steal Alonso's extra lap knowing than P1= Victory in here. He wanted to enjoy that extra flying lap (and with less fuel load) so it was likely he could have improved Alonso's lap. But on equal levels of fuel Alonso was faster. And do not forget, it was Alonso’s turn to enjoy the extra flying lap (Hamilton prevented him from doing so). FIA sanction absolutely inappropriate. Hamilton should now have 2 points less and Alonso 5 more (as surely Alonso would have won that race and Hamilton would have finished 2nd or third). Unfortunately for Alonso, the "judges" were a British, a German and a Chinese (it is like having an English referee in the World Cup Final between England and Spain - biased decision!). Curiously same British guy that investigated the Japanese SC mess.

TURKEY: relatively bad luck for Hamilton. Maybe he was pushing too hard and not looking after his tyres properly. Relatively because luckily for him, the tyre burst two or three corners before pit entry so he was able to finish 5th. However, Hamilton was faster!

MONZA: Alonso faster. As simple as that!

SPA: Alonso faster. As simple as that! Poisonous strategy (Hamilton 5 extra laps 2nd stint). Not investigated by FIA. Hamilton's lack of speed prevented him from overtaking Alonso. Naughty Ron .

JAPAN: Alonso's accident. Difficult weather conditions! Erratic driving behind SC. FIA does not sanction Hamilton. Abnormal real tyre pressures after 1st pit stop. Overinflation. However, let's say that Hamilton was faster than Alonso, and luckier!

CHINA: Alonso faster than Hamilton, except Q3 by 0.6 sec! Tyre pressures used in Q3 appear to be overheated causing increase of pressure, measured at 1.5 psi - normally 0.2 psi. Max Mosley and FIA are aware of this and highly suspicious. Foul play, however, would be difficult to prove. Hamilton faster in Q3, but is that real or due to some sort of manipulation? The race as expected. From P1 usually you will maintain the momentum (independently of who you are). Poor tyre treatment: Hamilton was clearly abusing intermediate tyres, driving over dried tarmac, overheating and gradually destroying them. Yes, you get more speed that way but the life span greatly diminishes. And he paid for it. Bad luck, though.

FINALLY: There have been circuits were Alonso has been clearly faster during free practice, Q1, Q2 and most of Q3 until the very last lap, when Hamilton with the extra flying lap (less fuel, do not forget) has secured P1 –. The Team, since Canada, has been clearly helping strategically Hamilton's interests and Alonso is not stupid and realises that. One now wonders whether a “magic” hand has been playing little tricks on Alonso. Nothing surprises me these days.

CONCLUSION: Maybe everybody was expecting Alonso to run easily away with the title. However, once the Team realised that Hamilton was very good, strategy changed to silently benefit/favour the McLaren breed driver. Proof for this is that the number of extra flying laps that Hamilton has enjoyed is 7 against 2 of Alonso (at the beginning of the season). And after Brazil it surely will be 8 against 2. And we know that overtaking is not easy these days (so there are huge team interests on securing P1, and surely this is the aim of McLaren for Hamilton in Brazil). This can be achieved by giving Hamilton once more the extra flying lap and if he struggles, maybe overcooking certain drivers rubber.

Equality is a nice word, but from now on it sounds to me like pathological thinking coming from Ron's mouth.

I just can’t imagine how difficult it has been for Alonso to keep focused (and I could extend on the psychological war launched by McLaren against Alonso after Monza, including Hamilton's comments (always under the protection of Ron).


#595 Brandz07

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 17:55

your crazy.

so biased towards alonso its unbelievable.

just leave it, 2007 has gone, alonso didnt win, quit crying, and he won't win 2010 either.

Edited by Brandz07, 17 June 2010 - 17:58.


#596 Lokt

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 17:57

Pardon my french...

But I can´t Fu**ing belive that you guys are still debating the 2007 season......

Move on allready.

Stop beating the dead horse...

#597 TigersWood

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 18:00

I want to move on because in the end it ended up well for Fernando, because he is in the Scuderia now and with the chance of winning a couple more WDC before he goes.

But It was sad, he really wanted to drive for McLaren, the car was good and the driver was in good shape. It was really sad.

Had the team supported the right driver, they would have won both championships and that is something very very clear.

Nobody saw it coming. Maybe Ron, who did nothing to penalty a driver who sues his own team to the stewards like Lewis did in Hungary. It was his father by the way.
But as we all know, Lewis has McLaren in his heart.


Changing the issue, it looks that Fernando is again in good shape, let's hope the F10B delivers as It should, he needs to make podium in a regular basis, no other way to win the title.


#598 otoelpiloto

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 18:02

your crazy.

so biased towards alonso its unbelievable.

just leave it, 2007 has gone, alonso didnt win, quit crying, and he won't win 2010 either.



yeah yeah, as biased towards fernando as the team was towards lewis.

and why should I leave 2007? I like talking about it, and this topic is fernando alonso and as far as I know I'm talking about fernando alonso. Alonso didn't win, neither did hamilton who, quoting MARCA headlines after brazil, did the biggest ridicule of the century. I'm quite proud of what alonso managed in 2007 against the great britain empire, it wasn't a dissapointment at all



#599 AlanWake

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 18:03

back to 2007 season, I've found something I'd like to share, quite remarkable indeed IMHO

John L Sharp's view of Fernando vs Lewis

MONACO: where this muddle started. Team orders were issued (to slow down) to preserve the engine for the next race (when Alonso, after 2nd pit stop had a +10sec advantage on Hamilton and close to 1 min on Massa). Alonso limited his car rpm down to 17000 rpm. Hamilton "failed" to listen and his complaint initiated an FIA investigation. No foul play. Alonso faster than Hamilton!

INDIANAPOLIS: No orders were given to reduce rpms. Alonso was undoubtedly faster than Hamilton. Alonso tried just once to overtake Hamilton. Failed, but his reaction in the following lap suggested that maybe, just maybe, he was stopped from trying again by team orders. At least this would have been the consensus amongst English press should that have happened the other way round!! Alonso did not "request" the FIA to investigate what to everyone's eyes was more suspicious than what had "happened" in MONACO. Yes, Hamilton won the US GP (but Alonso outpaced Hamilton there!)And this includes all way throughout Q1, Q2 and Q3, until the very last extra flying lap (as also occurred previously in Canada).And we know that this season, apart from when there is a mechanical failure or significant human error, P1 is equivalent to victory (that's why enjoying that extra flying lap in Q3 is soooo important - with less fuel)

MAGNY-COURS: mechanical problems for Alonso with the gear change system and suspension hydraulics or electronics. I can't remember now. No foul play. Probably bad luck?. Hamilton faster than Alonso!

SILVERSTONE: pole for Hamilton (this was clearly planned to satisfy British supporters). We know what happened after. Alonso faster than Hamilton!

NURBURGRING: Hamilton's incident. Alonso had the same problem with his car. Only he was luckier. I could not compare performances as Hamilton may have been physically in a poorer condition. But I have to give Alonso the benefit of the doubt in this one. Alonso faster than Hamilton!

HUNGARORING: the second incident. Naughty boys (both Hamilton and Alonso)! Alonso actually was faster when he did his best lap (faster than Hamilton with same fuel loads). Of course, Hamilton intentions were to steal Alonso's extra lap knowing than P1= Victory in here. He wanted to enjoy that extra flying lap (and with less fuel load) so it was likely he could have improved Alonso's lap. But on equal levels of fuel Alonso was faster. And do not forget, it was Alonso’s turn to enjoy the extra flying lap (Hamilton prevented him from doing so). FIA sanction absolutely inappropriate. Hamilton should now have 2 points less and Alonso 5 more (as surely Alonso would have won that race and Hamilton would have finished 2nd or third). Unfortunately for Alonso, the "judges" were a British, a German and a Chinese (it is like having an English referee in the World Cup Final between England and Spain - biased decision!). Curiously same British guy that investigated the Japanese SC mess.

TURKEY: relatively bad luck for Hamilton. Maybe he was pushing too hard and not looking after his tyres properly. Relatively because luckily for him, the tyre burst two or three corners before pit entry so he was able to finish 5th. However, Hamilton was faster!

MONZA: Alonso faster. As simple as that!

SPA: Alonso faster. As simple as that! Poisonous strategy (Hamilton 5 extra laps 2nd stint). Not investigated by FIA. Hamilton's lack of speed prevented him from overtaking Alonso. Naughty Ron .

JAPAN: Alonso's accident. Difficult weather conditions! Erratic driving behind SC. FIA does not sanction Hamilton. Abnormal real tyre pressures after 1st pit stop. Overinflation. However, let's say that Hamilton was faster than Alonso, and luckier!

CHINA: Alonso faster than Hamilton, except Q3 by 0.6 sec! Tyre pressures used in Q3 appear to be overheated causing increase of pressure, measured at 1.5 psi - normally 0.2 psi. Max Mosley and FIA are aware of this and highly suspicious. Foul play, however, would be difficult to prove. Hamilton faster in Q3, but is that real or due to some sort of manipulation? The race as expected. From P1 usually you will maintain the momentum (independently of who you are). Poor tyre treatment: Hamilton was clearly abusing intermediate tyres, driving over dried tarmac, overheating and gradually destroying them. Yes, you get more speed that way but the life span greatly diminishes. And he paid for it. Bad luck, though.

FINALLY: There have been circuits were Alonso has been clearly faster during free practice, Q1, Q2 and most of Q3 until the very last lap, when Hamilton with the extra flying lap (less fuel, do not forget) has secured P1 –. The Team, since Canada, has been clearly helping strategically Hamilton's interests and Alonso is not stupid and realises that. One now wonders whether a “magic” hand has been playing little tricks on Alonso. Nothing surprises me these days.

CONCLUSION: Maybe everybody was expecting Alonso to run easily away with the title. However, once the Team realised that Hamilton was very good, strategy changed to silently benefit/favour the McLaren breed driver. Proof for this is that the number of extra flying laps that Hamilton has enjoyed is 7 against 2 of Alonso (at the beginning of the season). And after Brazil it surely will be 8 against 2. And we know that overtaking is not easy these days (so there are huge team interests on securing P1, and surely this is the aim of McLaren for Hamilton in Brazil). This can be achieved by giving Hamilton once more the extra flying lap and if he struggles, maybe overcooking certain drivers rubber.

Equality is a nice word, but from now on it sounds to me like pathological thinking coming from Ron's mouth.

I just can’t imagine how difficult it has been for Alonso to keep focused (and I could extend on the psychological war launched by McLaren against Alonso after Monza, including Hamilton's comments (always under the protection of Ron).


Great post :up: :up: :up:


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#600 Massacrator

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 18:03

We're still debating 2007 because its funnier than it will be when this year Alonso wins the WDC again, because then, they can blame it on the car. In 2007 they can't.