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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#5951 gaston_foix

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 19:16

Which moment did he choke in, then?

Getting out dragged off the start (I'm no technical expert but I think that is more to do with the clutch than the choke *badoom, tish*)?

Getting called in at the wrong time by the team?

Not overtaking a car with a significant straightline speed advantage?

I don't see how any of those things can be blamed on Alonso.


There are some guys who want to blame Alonso for nothing. You can't do nothing about them. I can use the ignore button... but you can't :D

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#5952 Mr2s

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 19:19

Surely alonso fans can't think this? I wasn't watching in 2005/6 but I thought he made like one mistake in those 2 seasons? And was up against MS, not 2 non WDCs, one who had a car that liked to blow up and let alonso through quite frequently. He's always famed for his consistency, he had that for the second half of this season but not the first.

That is assuming you mean 2010 and aren't just being optimistic about next year?!


Alonso had a car that liked to lose wheels. IIRC reliabilty was even. Another myth invented by insecure schumacher fans exposed.

#5953 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 19:27

Finally I can start to get over the lose and reflect. Without the low moments like these how can we enjoy the highs? I'm sure you guys like me have followed Alonso for most of his career, just think how the last two years have felt, watching every race hoping that Renault might have improved enough for a podium and realising that it hadn't happened. Compare that to the highlights of this year in Bahrain, Singapore, Korea etc. Fernando and Ferrari will be a force to be reckoned with in the future and I can't wait to watch it! We managed to support Alonso through 07, 08 and 09, we can keep our chins up and keep supporting, knowing that our guy is the best no matter what anyone tries to say to put him down!

#5954 robefc

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 19:32

Alonso had a car that liked to lose wheels. IIRC reliabilty was even. Another myth invented by insecure schumacher fans exposed.


What are you on about? I was talking about vettel...

#5955 Birelman

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 19:41

Which moment did he choke in, then?

Getting out dragged off the start (I'm no technical expert but I think that is more to do with the clutch than the choke *badoom, tish*)?

Getting called in at the wrong time by the team?

Not overtaking a car with a significant straightline speed advantage?

I don't see how any of those things can be blamed on Alonso.

He didn't have his best race on Sunday (title day) that constitutes a choke. Even the mistaken strategy, he has a lot of input into that strategy, or would you not give him credit for great strategic calls he's made throughout his career? it's also his input into the bad ones. He and his team made the wrong call on Sunday (once again, title day) that's a choke. Even with the wrong strategic call, we didn't really see a heroic effort from him to overtake Petrov, if you ask me, Schumacher (in his prime and same position) would have overtaken the Renault, or die trying. We didn't see that.

He just didn't bring his A game, and is B game wasn't good enough on Sunday (title day) = choke.

#5956 gaston_foix

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 19:47

Finally I can start to get over the lose and reflect. Without the low moments like these how can we enjoy the highs? I'm sure you guys like me have followed Alonso for most of his career, just think how the last two years have felt, watching every race hoping that Renault might have improved enough for a podium and realising that it hadn't happened. Compare that to the highlights of this year in Bahrain, Singapore, Korea etc. Fernando and Ferrari will be a force to be reckoned with in the future and I can't wait to watch it! We managed to support Alonso through 07, 08 and 09, we can keep our chins up and keep supporting, knowing that our guy is the best no matter what anyone tries to say to put him down!

Still Newey beat him...

#5957 gaston_foix

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 19:51

He didn't have his best race on Sunday (title day) that constitutes a choke. Even the mistaken strategy, he has a lot of input into that strategy, or would you not give him credit for great strategic calls he's made throughout his career? it's also his input into the bad ones. He and his team made the wrong call on Sunday (once again, title day) that's a choke. Even with the wrong strategic call, we didn't really see a heroic effort from him to overtake Petrov, if you ask me, Schumacher (in his prime and same position) would have overtaken the Renault, or die trying. We didn't see that.

He just didn't bring his A game, and is B game wasn't good enough on Sunday (title day) = choke.

@Gareth is not an Alonso fan you know... You try so hard to put this on Alonso shoulders too. No proves... but keep trying...

#5958 Birelman

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 20:01

@Gareth is not an Alonso fan you know... You try so hard to put this on Alonso shoulders too. No proves... but keep trying...

Of course it's not all on his shoulders, we all know that, but he's not entirely without responsibility either which some guys are trying to imply.....

#5959 chapilinux

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 20:07

Link to the video. Hope you can see it:

http://www.lasexta.c...trategia/343021

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#5960 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 20:15

I can't get it to work, it just keeps showing the ads over and over again. It must be because I'm not in Spain, is there any way to put it on youtube or something?

#5961 Mr2s

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 20:26

What are you on about? I was talking about vettel...



I wasn't watching in 2005/6 but I thought he made like one mistake in those 2 seasons? And was up against MS, not 2 non WDCs, one who had a car that liked to blow up and let alonso through quite frequently.


I read it wrong sorry

Edited by Mr2s, 15 November 2010 - 20:27.


#5962 robefc

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 20:35

I read it wrong sorry


No probs :)

#5963 Ferrari2183

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 20:43

Alonso's shares have gone up in my book. He has thus far handled the disappointment of losing it in that manner quite well and it was nice to see his emotional side.

:up:

#5964 prty

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 20:48

He didn't have his best race on Sunday (title day) that constitutes a choke. Even the mistaken strategy, he has a lot of input into that strategy, or would you not give him credit for great strategic calls he's made throughout his career? it's also his input into the bad ones.


Decisions like doing a cushion lap in Singapore qualifying can be done, and were succesfuly done by him. To expect the driver to know the gaps to everyone, the information of how many stops has everyone done, calculate in what position he will return to the track, how is the tyre wear rate of everyone, and how was Webber pace (oh, and also driving the car), and take a decision in two laps based in all that, is stupid to say the least. Then saying he chocked because he didn't do all that is not stupid, it's the next stage.

Edited by prty, 15 November 2010 - 20:49.


#5965 Birelman

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 20:51

Decisions like doing a cushion lap in Singapore qualifying can be done, and were succesfuly done by him. To expect the driver to know the gaps to everyone, the information of how many stops has everyone done, calculate in what position he will return to the track, how is the tyre wear rate of everyone, and how was Webber pace (oh, and also driving the car), and take a decision in two laps based in all that, is stupid to say the least. Then saying he chocked because he didn't do all that is not stupid, it's the next stage.

You can make all the excuses you want, he still didn't deliver on the biggest night of the season, that's a choke, by definition.

#5966 prty

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 20:53

You can make all the excuses you want, he still didn't deliver on the biggest night of the season, that's a choke, by definition.


Oh but he did.

#5967 robefc

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 20:55

You can make all the excuses you want, he still didn't deliver on the biggest night of the season, that's a choke, by definition.


Quick online check of definition of 'choke'

To fail to perform effectively because of nervous agitation or tension, especially in an athletic contest:

So no, failing to deliver isn't by definition choking unless it's caused by the above.

Secondly, apart from button getting a bad start what else did alonso do wrong?

Edited by robefc, 15 November 2010 - 20:55.


#5968 Ferrari2183

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 20:56

You can make all the excuses you want, he still didn't deliver on the biggest night of the season, that's a choke, by definition.

And by definition, to make a statement such as the above is ignorant at best.

Edited by Ferrari2183, 15 November 2010 - 20:57.


#5969 Birelman

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 20:56

Oh but he did.

Did he, really? I just checked the standings again, it still says Vettel champion.....phewwww! You had me worried there!  ;)

#5970 Birelman

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 20:58

And by definition, to make a statement such as the above ignorant at best.

LOL you guys are really getting desperate aren't you?

Calling somebody ignorant cus he doesn't share your day of mourning? :drunk:

#5971 prty

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 20:58

Did he, really? I just checked the standings again, it still says Vettel champion.....phewwww! You had me worried there! ;)


So, F1 is just and only about the driver then? Phew! That will save Red Bull a lot of money on Newey's salary, go tell them :drunk:


#5972 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 21:01

Alonso's shares have gone up in my book. He has thus far handled the disappointment of losing it in that manner quite well and it was nice to see his emotional side.

:up:

Ye really well, hand gestures really are a way to show class :cool: .

#5973 Birelman

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 21:03

Quick online check of definition of 'choke'

To fail to perform effectively because of nervous agitation or tension, especially in an athletic contest:

So no, failing to deliver isn't by definition choking unless it's caused by the above.

Secondly, apart from button getting a bad start what else did alonso do wrong?

How is that different from what happened sunday? "Championship showdown = nervous agitation" " wrong strategy call = failing to perform effectively" "Formula 1 GP = athletic contest"

Did I miss anything? :)

#5974 prty

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 21:11

Did I miss anything? :)


Not worth to reply.

Anyway:

http://www.lasexta.c...ue_viene/342671

Posted Image


#5975 Ferrari2183

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 21:16

Ye really well, hand gestures really are a way to show class :cool: .

I take it you haven't played competitive sports as sometimes these things happen in the heat of battle.

It wasn't a great gesture and I condemned it when it happened but that is only a little part of his disappointment.

#5976 JustinCider

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 21:18

I take it you haven't played competitive sports as sometimes these things happen in the heat of battle.

It wasn't a great gesture and I condemned it when it happened but that is only a little part of his disappointment.


Yeah, but not infront of 300,000,000 people watching on live TV across the world. Alonso should look up the word discretion in the dictionary.

Edited by JustinCider, 15 November 2010 - 21:20.


#5977 Ferrari2183

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 21:28

Yeah, but not infront of 300,000,000 people watching on live TV across the world. Alonso should look up the word discretion in the dictionary.

Yeah well it's easy for us to criticise such behaviour. Have you considered his mind set at the time?

#5978 toxicfusion

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 21:28

Yeah, but not infront of 300,000,000 people watching on live TV across the world. Alonso should look up the word discretion in the dictionary.



Most of which come next season won't remember this race.

Luckily for them :p

Edited by toxicfusion, 15 November 2010 - 21:29.


#5979 JustinCider

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 21:32

Yeah well it's easy for us to criticise such behaviour. Have you considered his mind set at the time?


Yes, and he's paid tens of millions of dollars to perform on track and act like a consumate professional representing his employers at all other times. He should have kept his cool until the worlds camera's weren't trained upon him.

Plenty of other drivers have taken stick (quite rightly) for inappropriate actions of comments made infront of a camera, Alonso is no different.

Edited by JustinCider, 15 November 2010 - 21:33.


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#5980 yr

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 21:35

Decisions like doing a cushion lap in Singapore qualifying can be done, and were succesfuly done by him. To expect the driver to know the gaps to everyone, the information of how many stops has everyone done, calculate in what position he will return to the track, how is the tyre wear rate of everyone, and how was Webber pace (oh, and also driving the car), and take a decision in two laps based in all that, is stupid to say the least. Then saying he chocked because he didn't do all that is not stupid, it's the next stage.


Ok, I hope you will also remember that next time Ferrari will get their strategy right. Its not only once or twice after succesfull strategy decision from Alonsos team that we have heared: "It was Alonso who made that call, he is such a great at making right decisions at right time when the heat is on".

So, yeah. Next time Ferrari will get it right strategywise, don´t try to give credit for it to Fernando, ok?

Edited by yr, 15 November 2010 - 21:36.


#5981 matasiete

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 21:41

Avanti, Fer..

3wdc or two, Fernando is still the best driver in the grid.
Congratulations for a fantastic and thrilling season.



#5982 Birelman

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 21:44

Ok, I hope you will also remember that next time Ferrari will get their strategy right. Its not only once or twice after succesfull strategy decision from Alonsos team that we have heared: "It was Alonso who made that call, he is such a great at making right decisions at right time when the heat is on".

So, yeah. Next time Ferrari will get it right strategywise, don´t try to give credit for it to Fernando, ok?

:up:

So now that we know that strategy is only due to the team, then, half of Fernando's traits are a farce?

#5983 prty

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 21:45

Ok, I hope you will also remember that next time Ferrari will get their strategy right. Its not only once or twice after succesfull strategy decision from Alonsos team that we have heared: "It was Alonso who made that call, he is such a great at making right decisions at right time when the heat is on".

So, yeah. Next time Ferrari will get it right strategywise, don´t try to give credit for it to Fernando, ok?


That will depend if he is responsible for it or not, so it has to be judged individually. It makes no sense to try to create a rule. The only possible scenario for wanting to make a rule is trying to imply that nothing was Kimi's fault ;)

Edited by prty, 15 November 2010 - 21:46.


#5984 yr

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 21:50

Fernando is still the best driver in the grid.


Hmmm, don´t know about that. Seems to me he made several mistakes in first half of the season, by not doing any one of those numerous errors would have put him in a position that Vettel couldnt have won WDC in last race. Granted, team (including Alonso) made bad strategy choice in last race, but that´s only 1 race out of 19, you could as easily pick, say, Monaco for a race where title was decided. But whatever, Alonso is best and all others suck... sigh.


#5985 Birelman

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 21:50

That will depend if he is responsible for it or not, so it has to be judged individually. It makes no sense to try to create a rule. The only possible scenario for wanting to make a rule is trying to imply that nothing was Kimi's fault ;)

Now I know why you make no sense, you were watching Rallying where Kimi races, see, we were watching Formula 1, you're welcome to join us next time :)

#5986 yr

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 21:52

That will depend if he is responsible for it or not, so it has to be judged individually. It makes no sense to try to create a rule. The only possible scenario for wanting to make a rule is trying to imply that nothing was Kimi's fault ;)


Well, nothing ever was Kimis fault, surely you knew that. :confused:


 ;)

#5987 matasiete

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 21:57

Hmmm, don´t know about that. Seems to me he made several mistakes in first half of the season, by not doing any one of those numerous errors would have put him in a position that Vettel couldnt have won WDC in last race. Granted, team (including Alonso) made bad strategy choice in last race, but that´s only 1 race out of 19, you could as easily pick, say, Monaco for a race where title was decided. But whatever, Alonso is best and all others suck... sigh.


Whatever, mate, it´s my opinion.

#5988 Nitropower

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 21:59

I am amazed how some antialonso people here keep having a go at him even at his lowest moment, what a sick gang.

#5989 yr

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 22:01

Whatever, mate, it´s my opinion.


Ok, as long as you dont get confused by facts and opinons.


#5990 Mackey

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 22:04

Don´t feed the trolls guys, this way they´ll never stop.

What to say? One day after this big dissapointment I can only take my hat off to Alonso for the way he fought the Championship until the very last race with a car that didn´t deserve it.

I´m sure next year Red Bull won´t have this big car advantage and Fernando will show us again why he´s the best driver on the grid.

FORZA FERNANDO and FORZA FERRARI!!!!!

#5991 yr

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 22:10

I am amazed how some antialonso people here keep having a go at him even at his lowest moment, what a sick gang.


:lol:

Like Alonso fans were not having a ball when news about Kimi being removed from Ferrari in order to make room for Mr Santander came out. Talking about hitting when you are down...phew.

What I mean is that you guys gave no mercy at time for us Kimi fans (even if I´m sure that Kimi couldnt care less) but now when Alonso failed to deliver, you guys peg for mercy, that´s rich.

#5992 JackTorrance

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 22:13

The anti alonso brigade are sulking..there is simply nothing substantial to cry about so they look at petty things. He still remains the best driver Ferrari has seen since Schumacher, took Massa apart and sold him for parts, is immensely nice and friendly, level headed. Im very happy he is driving a red car.

#5993 yr

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 22:14

Don´t feed the trolls guys, this way they´ll never stop.

What to say? One day after this big dissapointment I can only take my hat off to Alonso for the way he fought the Championship until the very last race with a car that didn´t deserve it.

I´m sure next year Red Bull won´t have this big car advantage and Fernando will show us again why he´s the best driver on the grid.

FORZA FERNANDO and FORZA FERRARI!!!!!


How didnt the car deserved it? It was second fastest overall throughout the year, fastest in most weekends on racepace, reliability was from another planet compared to Red Bulls. All they needed was driver who didnt make so many mistakes in early season.

#5994 Mackey

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 22:29

How didnt the car deserved it? It was second fastest overall throughout the year, fastest in most weekends on racepace, reliability was from another planet compared to Red Bulls.


The car didn´t deserve it because it was never the fastest car in any GP. Only in Monza it was top, matched with the McLaren. You can´t ask a driver to win a Championship with a car like that.

All they needed was driver who didnt make so many mistakes in early season


Like Kimi, who driving the best car in 2008 finished 14 points ahead of Alonso, driving the mighty R28.


#5995 Enzoluis

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 22:46

The car didn´t deserve it because it was never the fastest car in any GP. Only in Monza it was top, matched with the McLaren. You can´t ask a driver to win a Championship with a car like that.


Well I wonder if this was true in Australia, but unfortunatly our heroe put the tires on the white line, and in Malasya, was waiting for the sun, in China suffered a rapid daltonic illness, Monaco misses the most famous curve in the F1 history, Canada forgot how to pass a backmaker, Great Britain started to suffer how to overtake a Renault, Germany, everybody needs some help.

Like Kimi, who driving the best car in 2008 finished 14 points ahead of Alonso, driving the mighty R28.


Kimi won his WDC in his first year at Ferrari with more than a couple of fantastic drives. I think is better to wait a couple of years before discuss this.




#5996 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 22:49

The car didn´t deserve it because it was never the fastest car in any GP. Only in Monza it was top, matched with the McLaren. You can´t ask a driver to win a Championship with a car like that.


Like Kimi, who driving the best car in 2008 finished 14 points ahead of Alonso, driving the mighty R28.

what was the fastest car in germany?
2008? you're talking about singapore 2008? his best win?

#5997 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 22:54

Yeah well it's easy for us to criticise such behaviour. Have you considered his mind set at the time?

I would guess similar to Massa's in 2008 and similar to Hamilton's in 2007. Both completely outshone Alonso in their reactions.

#5998 Souffle

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 23:01

While fred astallso was probably fouling his teammate, will someone please now tell him Seb. is World Champion... & he isn't.

Edited by Souffle, 15 November 2010 - 23:01.


#5999 ForeverF1

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 23:01

Personally I think it is the ultimate pettiness to come in to an Alonso thread and try to kick him/his supporters when they're down...and some people have a cheek complaining about Alonso's behaviour. Why not show some class and measure your happiness on your driver/teams successes rather than your rivals failures?


There are no *insert driver name* threads that are solely for that drivers fans. All threads are open to all members.

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#6000 Stuko

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 23:04

A true leader: http://www.gpupdate....was-hard-today/