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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#6351 Watkins74

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 22:00

Everyone is entitled to a point of view, but I don't think anyone outperformed their car to the huge extent that Alonso did this season. And no one, certainly, so comprehensively destroyed his team mate (one who came within a point of the 2008 title). In a season in which all of the top candidates made mistakes, I'd personally regard Alonso as having done the best job of anyone.

I am a huge Alonso fan, but to disregard the number of mistakes Alonso made from the first race to Belgium is to live in denial. So what if other drivers made mistakes? It doesn't give Alonso a pass on his mistakes.

Just because he was tremendous in the end of the season, doesn't mean you forget the beginning. Every race counts equally.

Forza Alonso! Better luck next year.

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#6352 TurboF1

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 16:14

I am a huge Alonso fan, but to disregard the number of mistakes Alonso made from the first race to Belgium is to live in denial. So what if other drivers made mistakes? It doesn't give Alonso a pass on his mistakes.

Just because he was tremendous in the end of the season, doesn't mean you forget the beginning. Every race counts equally.

Forza Alonso! Better luck next year.



Agree 100%. People will go so far to bash a driver that they disregard all the good they did, and intensely magnify the bad. I think Fred and Lewis both did a great job this year all things considered. I must admit, Freds early season mistakes were very much unlike him, but then I dont think he's ever had as much pressure in his career before (Debut for Fezza, a strong red bull & mclaren and a car that was outdeveloped in the early part of the season).

#6353 Seanspeed

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 16:29

I still count him among the top drivers, but he lost a lot of cred with me this season. Let's see if he can improve in the next round.

Judging by your views of him this season, I dont think there's much the guy can do to become any better in your eyes.

#6354 jjcale

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 18:07

I am a huge Alonso fan, but to disregard the number of mistakes Alonso made from the first race to Belgium is to live in denial. So what if other drivers made mistakes? It doesn't give Alonso a pass on his mistakes.


Thing is, nobody asks why he made all those errors... at the time, I suggested that he was under too much pressure from having to have instant success at Ferrari but no one in this thread was interested... they seemed to think it a bash by an LH fan (LH was leading at the time).

If we take the reason into account we can be a bit easier on FA.

Also, when we take into account, very little testing, more untested upgrades coming at the drivers than ever before + a very tight race at the tops thanks to Redbull dropping the ball so much early in the season (thus increasing the pressure on the guys at the top).... its not like back in the old days when there was unlimited testing, and a fight between 2 or three drivers with the others in car that cannot even hold them up, much less challenge them.

Errors in 2010 were much more forgiveable than errors in 2005 or 1995.

FA only got it together when he was so far behind that he was being written off, even in Italty, that it meant the pressure was off him... also it didnt hurt that Ferrari stopped making big upgrades to the car midseason so he had a stable chassis to work with and get used to.

With this experience behind him, I expect him to be composed all the way through the season in 2011, provided he has a competitive car that does not ask hm to drive at 110% every lap just to stay in the hunt (like LH found himself with in the last third of 2010).

#6355 Johnrambo

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 19:25

Forza Alonso! Better luck next year.


Luck? What has luck got to do anything with Alonso crashing left and right?


#6356 Callisto

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 19:59

Thing is, nobody asks why he made all those errors... at the time, I suggested that he was under too much pressure from having to have instant success at Ferrari but no one in this thread was interested... they seemed to think it a bash by an LH fan (LH was leading at the time).

If we take the reason into account we can be a bit easier on FA.

Also, when we take into account, very little testing, more untested upgrades coming at the drivers than ever before + a very tight race at the tops thanks to Redbull dropping the ball so much early in the season (thus increasing the pressure on the guys at the top).... its not like back in the old days when there was unlimited testing, and a fight between 2 or three drivers with the others in car that cannot even hold them up, much less challenge them.

Errors in 2010 were much more forgiveable than errors in 2005 or 1995.

FA only got it together when he was so far behind that he was being written off, even in Italty, that it meant the pressure was off him... also it didnt hurt that Ferrari stopped making big upgrades to the car midseason so he had a stable chassis to work with and get used to.

With this experience behind him, I expect him to be composed all the way through the season in 2011, provided he has a competitive car that does not ask hm to drive at 110% every lap just to stay in the hunt (like LH found himself with in the last third of 2010).


What has the lack of testing and new parts got to do with making mistakes?

#6357 Watkins74

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 20:11

Luck? What has luck got to do anything with Alonso crashing left and right?

Please list all times Alonso crashed "left and right".

Edited by Watkins74, 20 December 2010 - 20:12.


#6358 jjcale

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 20:13

What has the lack of testing and new parts got to do with making mistakes?


Lets take the EBD as but one example ... drivers had to adjust their driving style mid-season to cope with it. Is it not more likely that there will be mistakes if a driver's "natural" style is unsuited to using the EBD if he has only the race weekends to get used to it and not hours and hours of testing as in previous years. From memory, some of FA's worst races of the season coincided with the introduction of the EBD by Ferrari... a direct cause and effect relationship could not be established but a heavily updated car must pose more challengest to a driver than would otherwise be the case.

Edited by jjcale, 20 December 2010 - 20:16.


#6359 gaston_foix

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 21:10

A very disappointing performance overall for Fernando this year. Alonso performed poorly under pressure quite a bit (and I do recognize that he had some good runs under pressure as well, i.e., singapore and hungary - but they were pretty outnumbered). Additionally, I felt like he allowed his emotions to get the better of him way too often throughout the season. His reputation as a driver took a tremendous hit for me as a result of his overall performance (culminating in his race behind Petrov) - despite the press largely ignoring his faux paus for some reason and focusing more on the aged battle with Hamilton, team orders and his positive strides. Admittedly, he had some bad luck, but his unforced errors were way too numerous for a man of his experience - despite the pressure. Of his 5 wins, 2 were gifted due to Vettel mechanical DNFs and 1 was a outright gift of his teammate - 21 pure luck points and that does not take into account the points garnered through non-win attrition. I still count him among the top drivers, but he lost a lot of cred with me this season. Let's see if he can improve in the next round.


I wonder if you realize how many points Vettel got by having such a dominant car, but I think you are not.

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#6360 Callisto

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 21:40

Lets take the EBD as but one example ... drivers had to adjust their driving style mid-season to cope with it. Is it not more likely that there will be mistakes if a driver's "natural" style is unsuited to using the EBD if he has only the race weekends to get used to it and not hours and hours of testing as in previous years. From memory, some of FA's worst races of the season coincided with the introduction of the EBD by Ferrari... a direct cause and effect relationship could not be established but a heavily updated car must pose more challengest to a driver than would otherwise be the case.

I undetstand what you are saying,but alonso made the most mistakes in the first half of the season

#6361 undersquare

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 21:55

I undetstand what you are saying,but alonso made the most mistakes in the first half of the season


And they were all different I think. Lining up for the start on the paint, false start, FP3 crash, Spa crash (OK similar those two), not letting Kubi back past. Did I forget any? In general, not all that car related anyway.

#6362 jjcale

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 21:59

And they were all different I think. Lining up for the start on the paint, false start, FP3 crash, Spa crash (OK similar those two), not letting Kubi back past. Did I forget any? In general, not all that car related anyway.


I think the pressure to deliver instant results for Ferrari was the biggest factor (they were such stupid mistakes in some cases)... but the other things that I mentioned would not have helped.

Edited by jjcale, 20 December 2010 - 22:03.


#6363 AyrtonSauna

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 22:20

I think the pressure to deliver instant results for Ferrari was the biggest factor (they were such stupid mistakes in some cases)... but the other things that I mentioned would not have helped.

There was massive pressure from Ferrari in the 1st half of 2010.Replacing the huge talent of Kimi Raikkonen was always going to put Alonso under great pressure aswell and it showed until he really got his act together with 4 wins in the 2nd half of the season.

On another note.I just saw this new video about Alonso from Minardi to Ferrari and loved it! :lol:








#6364 undersquare

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 22:24

I think the pressure to deliver instant results for Ferrari was the biggest factor (they were such stupid mistakes in some cases)... but the other things that I mentioned would not have helped.


Well the false start would fit that, certainly. IIRC the Ferrari EBD had one bad race then it was good. Then the whole car was good to drive once the flexi bits came on line.

I don't know about Ferrari pressure, it's there certainly, but the expectation was there for the others too. More so for the Red Bull drivers in many ways, who had to live up to the car (though it did look easy to drive at the limit).

I suppose I see the pressure as coming with the territory - the salary, the No1 thing, life at the top. If anything, the early win should have settled him down. For me they looked like mainly random mistakes that they just make, or don't.

#6365 Watkins74

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 16:05

Happy New Year Fernando. :wave:

I expect great things from you this year. It is going to be you against the kid/Newey for all the glory.

Forza Fernando!

#6366 noikeee

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 17:12

Alonso has just managed to piss off my local media. He's spending the New Year holidays in Porto Santo, which is a small island right next to (my) Madeira Island. Arriving at the airport he went straight to the journalists and said: "Guys, the first photographer or camera I see in the next few days, I'll go home the next day. And I'll make sure I'll tell everyone Porto Santo is a disaster. Give me tranquillity, okay? Or else tomorrow I go away and in the entire world Porto Santo [thumbs down]"

Caught on camera: http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

I don't mind that much, he clearly was in a bad day or something and needs rest, but he got some very bad PR here these days, it's not like everyone's bias against the spanish helps neither...

Edited by paranoik0, 31 December 2010 - 17:14.


#6367 Tifosi90

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 17:23

Alonso has just managed to piss off my local media. He's spending the New Year holidays in Porto Santo, which is a small island right next to (my) Madeira Island. Arriving at the airport he went straight to the journalists and said: "Guys, the first photographer or camera I see in the next few days, I'll go home the next day. And I'll make sure I'll tell everyone Porto Santo is a disaster. Give me tranquillity, okay? Or else tomorrow I go away and in the entire world Porto Santo [thumbs down]"

Caught on camera: http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

I don't mind that much, he clearly was in a bad day or something and needs rest, but he got some very bad PR here these days, it's not like everyone's bias against the spanish helps neither...


Another reason why I don't like Alonso. He gets paid god knows how many millions a year and then he complains about the media taking pictures of him. Does he realise that the people taking those pictures are only doing their job that the boss told them to do. If Alonso doesn't like all the attention then he should have never become an F1 driver, he knew perfectly well what was going to happen when you enter F1.

Alonso is just a spoiled brat, like he has shown many times over.

#6368 prty

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 18:01

Alonso has just managed to piss off my local media. He's spending the New Year holidays in Porto Santo, which is a small island right next to (my) Madeira Island. Arriving at the airport he went straight to the journalists and said: "Guys, the first photographer or camera I see in the next few days, I'll go home the next day. And I'll make sure I'll tell everyone Porto Santo is a disaster. Give me tranquillity, okay? Or else tomorrow I go away and in the entire world Porto Santo [thumbs down]"

Caught on camera: http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

I don't mind that much, he clearly was in a bad day or something and needs rest, but he got some very bad PR here these days, it's not like everyone's bias against the spanish helps neither...


Well seeing that he's on vacation and he gets this when he arrives at the place to relax:



The reaction is not that weird...

Another reason why I don't like Alonso. He gets paid god knows how many millions a year and then he complains about the media taking pictures of him. Does he realise that the people taking those pictures are only doing their job that the boss told them to do.


They chose that job though.

Also, do you like Schumacher?

http://www.youtube.c...A7t0T38XM#t=27s

Or Kimi?



;)

Edited by prty, 31 December 2010 - 18:10.


#6369 fabr68

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 18:10

Another reason why I don't like Alonso. He gets paid god knows how many millions a year and then he complains about the media taking pictures of him. Does he realise that the people taking those pictures are only doing their job that the boss told them to do. If Alonso doesn't like all the attention then he should have never become an F1 driver, he knew perfectly well what was going to happen when you enter F1.

Alonso is just a spoiled brat, like he has shown many times over.


Well, the media is not the one paying him the "millions". I don't care what the bosses of those people told them, no driver is obligated to respond to the media on their personal vacation time. Besides, when all the media do is start speculations, rumours and invent things to sell their publications, there is zero reason to give them some free camera time.

The media gets the respect they give...

Edited by fabr68, 31 December 2010 - 18:11.


#6370 DarthRonzo

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 20:30

Alonso has just managed to piss off my local media. He's spending the New Year holidays in Porto Santo, which is a small island right next to (my) Madeira Island. Arriving at the airport he went straight to the journalists and said: "Guys, the first photographer or camera I see in the next few days, I'll go home the next day. And I'll make sure I'll tell everyone Porto Santo is a disaster. Give me tranquillity, okay? Or else tomorrow I go away and in the entire world Porto Santo [thumbs down]"

It sounds like blackmail :down:

Alonso intends to badly advertise the whole tourist Porto Santo community for the errors of a few.

The guy is rich and could avoid this kinf of shaite by buy/rent a private place to enjoy his vacations.

That was rude :well:

#6371 showtime

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 20:57

I would love to see the face of those hyenas , I'm sure they didn't expect that :rotfl:

#6372 Fontainebleau

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 21:12

It sounds like blackmail :down:

Alonso intends to badly advertise the whole tourist Porto Santo community for the errors of a few.

The guy is rich and could avoid this kinf of shaite by buy/rent a private place to enjoy his vacations.

That was rude :well:

I think that you are exaggerating. It wasn't nice, I agree, but you are making it sound as if he were the only person who has ever said something like that when on a bad moment.

#6373 Smile17

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 23:01

I think that you are exaggerating. It wasn't nice, I agree, but you are making it sound as if he were the only person who has ever said something like that when on a bad moment.


True, but the latest reports are now claiming that he even went as far as saying 'I'm going to break your wrists' today. He went to golf and had lunch by the sea but the paparazzi followed him and made pics. He used inappropriate language and insulted the reporters who were filming him from a distance. Porto Santo secured him exclusive access, but it looks like that wasn't enough.



#6374 Fontainebleau

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 23:48

True, but the latest reports are now claiming that he even went as far as saying 'I'm going to break your wrists' today. He went to golf and had lunch by the sea but the paparazzi followed him and made pics. He used inappropriate language and insulted the reporters who were filming him from a distance. Porto Santo secured him exclusive access, but it looks like that wasn't enough.

Yes, we already know that Alonso can get very upset if reporters don't respect his private life. And yes, insulting is not particularly nice but unfortunately it is quite usual.

As for threatening, again it is not nice, but I have to say that "I am going to break your wrists" is a very weird one!

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that Alonso is right in doing those things, but portraying him as the evil character of F1 because of them is incorrect too.

#6375 currupipi

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 00:52

that was pretty lame , he seems to be calming down with age. he must have been in a good mood , i remember how pissed he used to get with the spanish press when they started hounding him when he started going out with his wife and the press found out. it must be true that age tempers even the wildest ones,

btw happy new year to everyone.

#6376 kosmos

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 10:11

And I'll make sure I'll tell everyone Porto Santo is a disaster


Stupid comment ever, the press upset Alonso and he is going to charge against the island and not the press? :rotfl: Next time when I visit Oviedo if someone upset me I'm going to say that Oviedo is crap because apples and oranges go together.

#6377 Fontainebleau

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 12:24

Stupid comment ever, the press upset Alonso and he is going to charge against the island and not the press? :rotfl: Next time when I visit Oviedo if someone upset me I'm going to say that Oviedo is crap because apples and oranges go together.

Alternatively, you may join a certain Mr Lauda on his nasty comments about "Asturian villages" - which he made because he did not like Alonso, or something Alonso had done. So,as you see, Alonso is not inventing anything new here.

Anyway, and going to the important things - a very happy 2011 to all of you! :)

#6378 cardin

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 13:58

It sounds like blackmail :down:


That rings a bell.

#6379 ArtShelley

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 14:24

I couldn't give a rats what he does in his personal life. He's still one of the very best drivers currently in F1. If Ferrari build a competitive car for 2011, I don't think many will disagree that he will be a force.

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#6380 cardin

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 14:27

Yes, we already know that Alonso can get very upset if reporters don't respect his private life. And yes, insulting is not particularly nice but unfortunately it is quite usual.

As for threatening, again it is not nice, but I have to say that "I am going to break your wrists" is a very weird one!

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that Alonso is right in doing those things, but portraying him as the evil character of F1 because of them is incorrect too.


If you consider only this isolated incident then yes, it's incorrect. If you, on the other hand, take into consideration his whole body of work then it's pretty safe to conclude; the guy is an a-hole.

#6381 Fontainebleau

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 15:36

If you consider only this isolated incident then yes, it's incorrect. If you, on the other hand, take into consideration his whole body of work then it's pretty safe to conclude; the guy is an a-hole.

What body of work? The one that certain press has tried to spoon-feed us?

I don't think that at a personal level Alonso is any worse (or better) than the other drivers.

Edited by Fontainebleau, 01 January 2011 - 15:37.


#6382 DarthRonzo

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 15:44

I couldn't give a rats what he does in his personal life. He's still one of the very best drivers currently in F1. If Ferrari build a competitive car for 2011, I don't think many will disagree that he will be a force.

That's precisely why Alonso must take care with his actions.

One word of Alonso Allmighty can destroy the economy of Porto Santo :eek:

All this atrition with the paparazzi could be avoided if he buys a private island in Abu Dhabi...

OK, maybe next year after the TRAUMA is gone :well:

#6383 prty

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 17:36

That's precisely why Alonso must take care with his actions.

One word of Alonso Allmighty can destroy the economy of Porto Santo :eek:


I don't think he can, but then it would be the responsability of Porto Santo paparazzis.

If someone with a lot of influence (and again, I don't think Alonso has that kind) comes to your town, that has an economy based on tourism, and you go around annoying him, then face the consequences. Just doing their job? They chose that job, so live by it. Also, they have a job because people are interested in what they tell. Again, if that comes around to bite you, it's your fault, not the annoyed person's.

That said, I wouldn't have done what Alonso did, and also it is clear that he only said that to make them go away.

Edited by prty, 01 January 2011 - 17:38.


#6384 P123

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 17:45

He should have borrowed Kimi's gorilla suit for a hassle free wander through the airport.

#6385 Smile17

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 17:53

The usual bla bla again, the stuff haters like to read etc. Like it or not, Alonso is still the most respected F1 driver and has a much better reputation than say someone like Hamilton. I know the fan boys don't want to know and yes it's stupid to even compare them.

Edited by Smile17, 01 January 2011 - 17:54.


#6386 Callisto

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 19:49

The usual bla bla again, the stuff haters like to read etc. Like it or not, Alonso is still the most respected F1 driver and has a much better reputation than say someone like Hamilton. I know the fan boys don't want to know and yes it's stupid to even compare them.

If its stupid to compare them,then why did you compare them?

#6387 noikeee

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 19:56

When I wrote that he "pissed off the local media" I'm referring to one or two opinion articles I've read in the newspaper that condemned his attitude, saying it was rude and not the way to win fans. They aren't "afraid he'll ruin the economy", that's ridiculous. Where do you people come up with this shit?

I also found it very amusing to see prty referring to the "Porto Santo paparazzis". There aren't any Porto Santo paparazzis, it's a very small place with 4000 inhabitants and no local media. I'm not sure who is/was there for him but there would be at least a few representatives of the Madeira media which is the bigger island next to it (where I live in), and maybe some from mainland Portugal.

#6388 Fontainebleau

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 22:17

Well, I have to say that what I got out of this discussion is that I have found out about Porto Santo, of which existance I didn't know anything before and which looks like a very beautiful place and a nice holiday destination. :)

#6389 velgajski1

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 22:31

The usual bla bla again, the stuff haters like to read etc. Like it or not, Alonso is still the most respected F1 driver and has a much better reputation than say someone like Hamilton. I know the fan boys don't want to know and yes it's stupid to even compare them.


Lol at this. As a non-Spanish, non-British person (nor in any way related to any of those two nations) I have to say that Alonso has worst reputation amongst current F1 pack except maybe Schumacher, but even that is questionable since generally speaking Schummi was correct to most of ppl except his opponents, while Alonso is usually fair driver on-track, but a total asshole otherwise :)

Edited by velgajski1, 01 January 2011 - 22:34.


#6390 prty

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 22:33

I also found it very amusing to see prty referring to the "Porto Santo paparazzis". There aren't any Porto Santo paparazzis, it's a very small place with 4000 inhabitants and no local media. I'm not sure who is/was there for him but there would be at least a few representatives of the Madeira media which is the bigger island next to it (where I live in), and maybe some from mainland Portugal.


Oh, I don't know, I remembered you said something like "pissed off my local media" and then said that you live in that zone, I assumed :)

#6391 purebliss

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 00:54

A very disappointing performance overall for Fernando this year. Alonso performed poorly under pressure quite a bit (and I do recognize that he had some good runs under pressure as well, i.e., singapore and hungary - but they were pretty outnumbered). Additionally, I felt like he allowed his emotions to get the better of him way too often throughout the season. His reputation as a driver took a tremendous hit for me as a result of his overall performance (culminating in his race behind Petrov) - despite the press largely ignoring his faux paus for some reason and focusing more on the aged battle with Hamilton, team orders and his positive strides. Admittedly, he had some bad luck, but his unforced errors were way too numerous for a man of his experience - despite the pressure. Of his 5 wins, 2 were gifted due to Vettel mechanical DNFs and 1 was a outright gift of his teammate - 21 pure luck points and that does not take into account the points garnered through non-win attrition. I still count him among the top drivers, but he lost a lot of cred with me this season. Let's see if he can improve in the next round.


Thanks for your version of an alternative reality. Alonso joined a new team and out performed his team mate by the second largest margin on the grid, and you write that nonsense?

#6392 velgajski1

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 10:09

Thanks for your version of an alternative reality. Alonso joined a new team and out performed his team mate by the second largest margin on the grid, and you write that nonsense?


Massa had a year from hell, its really rare that a team boss openly criticizes a driver for his season performance and that exactly happened to Massa this year. This year he was in no way at level of Webber or Button for example + he was made nr.2 at half of season which is a huge blow to any driver, so beating poorer than ever Massa should not be something to take pride in even if its by a big margin. It's like saying that Hamilton had alien performance in his 2008. season because he beat Kovalainen by a huge margin.

Ferrari and McLaren weren't best cars on grid this season, but were cars that were able to win races and a WDC with stellar driving. None of McLaren or Ferrari drivers did a stellar season.

As McLaren/Hamilton fan I have to say that out of WDC contenders Vettel made least mistakes and that made him WDC in the end. He also showed great mental strength when it mattered the most but also throughout the season filled with frustration and car failures. I think Hamilton and Alonso are overall quicked drivers but they both made too much errors this season.

On the other hand Alonso suffered the same syndrome that is often attributed to Hamilton - he began to perform great only when he became a WDC underdog. Also, he choked quite badly in last race so the whole Alonso-most-complete-driver-with-his-mental-toughness showed (again) to be just a myth this season.

Edited by velgajski1, 02 January 2011 - 10:20.


#6393 purebliss

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 10:18

Massa had a year from hell, its really rare that a team boss openly criticizes a driver for his season performance and that exactly happened to Massa this year. This year he was in no way at level of Webber or Button for example + he was made nr.2 at half of season which is a huge blow to any driver, so beating poorer than ever Massa should not be something to take pride in even if its by a big margin. It's like saying that Hamilton had alien performance in his 2008. season because he beat Kovalainen by a huge margin.

Ferrari and McLaren weren't best cars on grid this season, but were cars that were able to win races and a WDC with stellar driving. None of McLaren or Ferrari drivers did a stellar season.


He had a year from hell because his team mate was half a second a lap faster, it did not happen for nothing, it was a direct result of alonsos amazing speed which you seem to ignore. You cannot say he was no way at the level of webber and button because they had different benchmarks, and for all we know Alonso just drove out of his skin, but I understand thats a conclusion some people refuse to even consider. They obviously want to beleive that Massa was the only driver on the grid out of 26 who had trouble heating his tyres even though bridgestone refuted that claim.

How did Alonso choke in the last race exactly?

Edited by purebliss, 02 January 2011 - 10:19.


#6394 marcoferrari

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 10:25

He had a year from hell because his team mate was half a second a lap faster, it did not happen for nothing, it was a direct result of alonsos amazing speed which you seem to ignore. You cannot say he was no way at the level of webber and button because they had different benchmarks, and for all we know Alonso just drove out of his skin, but I understand thats a conclusion some people refuse to even consider. They obviously want to beleive that Massa was the only driver on the grid out of 26 who had trouble heating his tyres even though bridgestone refuted that claim.

How did Alonso choke in the last race exactly?


Both Massa and Button had strong and fast teammates and both lost to them over 4 tenths per race... Massa needs to be more strategic as Button is, that is the only way how he can be at least near Alonso... The first half of 2010 wasn t that bad, Massa made less mistakes then Alonso... But after Monza Felipe started to be very weak, but maybe he just didn t want to help Fernando in taking away points from his main competitors... Every driver is at least a bit selfish...

#6395 velgajski1

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 10:29

He had a year from hell because his team mate was half a second a lap faster, it did not happen for nothing, it was a direct result of alonsos amazing speed which you seem to ignore. You cannot say he was no way at the level of webber and button because they had different benchmarks, and for all we know Alonso just drove out of his skin, but I understand thats a conclusion some people refuse to even consider. They obviously want to beleive that Massa was the only driver on the grid out of 26 who had trouble heating his tyres even though bridgestone refuted that claim.


So, you claim that Hamilton won 2008. in vastly inferior car? I disagree as I tend to look at each driver performance individually and Massa 2010 ~ Kovalainen 2008 which is also backed up by Massa receiving great amount of criticism from Ferrari for the first time in his career.

I do not ignore Alonso amazing speed, as I wrote I find him and Hamilton as two fastest drivers on grid, but that does not excuse them for a fair share of mistakes they did this season.

Edited by velgajski1, 02 January 2011 - 10:31.


#6396 purebliss

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 10:46

So, you claim that Hamilton won 2008. in vastly inferior car? I disagree as I tend to look at each driver performance individually and Massa 2010 ~ Kovalainen 2008 which is also backed up by Massa receiving great amount of criticism from Ferrari for the first time in his career.



Yep. You cannot look at driver performance individually because you have no benchmark so you cannot make a credible comparision. How could you compare Massa and Kovalainen in 2008 when they had different cars and team mates? Impossible. Massa has driven many years in F1 with many different regulations, yet we are supposed to believe that the minor changes in 2010 suddenly caused the most dramatic performance drop off of his career during his prime at the same time Alonso joined his team? If you believe that then you would believe anything. Fact is Massa is not in Alonso's class and the careers of both drivers backs this up perfectly. I dont really understand the denial showed by so many. I can understand it coming from Kimi fans but not from everyone else.

#6397 DanardiF1

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 10:57

Yep. You cannot look at driver performance individually because you have no benchmark so you cannot make a credible comparision. How could you compare Massa and Kovalainen in 2008 when they had different cars and team mates? Impossible. Massa has driven many years in F1 with many different regulations, yet we are supposed to believe that the minor changes in 2010 suddenly caused the most dramatic performance drop off of his career during his prime at the same time Alonso joined his team? If you believe that then you would believe anything. Fact is Massa is not in Alonso's class and the careers of both drivers backs this up perfectly. I dont really understand the denial showed by so many. I can understand it coming from Kimi fans but not from everyone else.


Massa nearly died in 2009. I think scoring the amount of points he did, and serving the team so well in 2010 when they had done the same for him when in intensive care is remarkable. You don't win 11 grand prix through being a poor driver. Alonso has clearly been favoured since he arrived at Ferrari, whether this is down to his character or the big fat cheque Santander send Ferrari's way for having him I don't know. He is a very fast driver yes, but to suggest Massa is in his 'prime' when he is in his first season back after a life-threatening accident is silly. So Alonso beat a driver who clearly had issues with tyres (doesn't matter if it's not a technical problem, he wasn't getting the feel out of them... several other drivers had the same problem.), and whose last time driving an F1 car nearly died?

Why do people insist on putting down the other driver to make their favourite look better? Why not just be fair? Alonso beat Massa anyway so there shouldn't be a chip on your shoulder? He's a damn sight better than we saw in 2010 so I wouldn't go round gloating (or indeed just trolling) just yet.

#6398 velgajski1

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 11:02

Yep. You cannot look at driver performance individually because you have no benchmark so you cannot make a credible comparision. How could you compare Massa and Kovalainen in 2008 when they had different cars and team mates? Impossible. Massa has driven many years in F1 with many different regulations, yet we are supposed to believe that the minor changes in 2010 suddenly caused the most dramatic performance drop off of his career during his prime at the same time Alonso joined his team? If you believe that then you would believe anything. Fact is Massa is not in Alonso's class and the careers of both drivers backs this up perfectly. I dont really understand the denial showed by so many. I can understand it coming from Kimi fans but not from everyone else.


This is true, I rely on my gut instinct based on what I see on track, but also on what driver/team boss says about certian performance. My logic is that if Massa drove well in 2010. he wouldn't receive criticism from Ferrari because they were obviously really happy with him up until this season. That is, unless their logic has the same flaw as mine does :) My assumption is that they know what they're doing.

#6399 Lotusseven

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 11:17

When I wrote that he "pissed off the local media" I'm referring to one or two opinion articles I've read in the newspaper that condemned his attitude, saying it was rude and not the way to win fans. They aren't "afraid he'll ruin the economy", that's ridiculous. Where do you people come up with this shit?

I also found it very amusing to see prty referring to the "Porto Santo paparazzis". There aren't any Porto Santo paparazzis, it's a very small place with 4000 inhabitants and no local media. I'm not sure who is/was there for him but there would be at least a few representatives of the Madeira media which is the bigger island next to it (where I live in), and maybe some from mainland Portugal.



Who cares if Alonso pissing of your local media ? hahaha...sorry :kiss:;)
I have never heard about Porto Santo, looks like a nice place.
I donĀ“t think you have to worry about Alonso and what he told the mediaguy in the video. He has done the same before.
I have seen Shumi, Heidfield, Villeneuve acting like assholes to media too, when they have been on vacations...they all only wish for
"alone time" I think.

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#6400 marcoferrari

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 15:05

Massa nearly died in 2009. I think scoring the amount of points he did, and serving the team so well in 2010 when they had done the same for him when in intensive care is remarkable. You don't win 11 grand prix through being a poor driver. Alonso has clearly been favoured since he arrived at Ferrari, whether this is down to his character or the big fat cheque Santander send Ferrari's way for having him I don't know. He is a very fast driver yes, but to suggest Massa is in his 'prime' when he is in his first season back after a life-threatening accident is silly. So Alonso beat a driver who clearly had issues with tyres (doesn't matter if it's not a technical problem, he wasn't getting the feel out of them... several other drivers had the same problem.), and whose last time driving an F1 car nearly died?

Why do people insist on putting down the other driver to make their favourite look better? Why not just be fair? Alonso beat Massa anyway so there shouldn't be a chip on your shoulder? He's a damn sight better than we saw in 2010 so I wouldn't go round gloating (or indeed just trolling) just yet.


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