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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#601 MichaelPM

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 18:05

back to 2007 season, I've found something I'd like to share, quite remarkable indeed IMHO

John L Sharp's view of Fernando vs Lewis

MONACO: where this muddle started. Team orders were issued (to slow down) to preserve the engine for the next race (when Alonso, after 2nd pit stop had a +10sec advantage on Hamilton and close to 1 min on Massa). Alonso limited his car rpm down to 17000 rpm. Hamilton "failed" to listen and his complaint initiated an FIA investigation. No foul play. Alonso faster than Hamilton!

INDIANAPOLIS: No orders were given to reduce rpms. Alonso was undoubtedly faster than Hamilton. Alonso tried just once to overtake Hamilton. Failed, but his reaction in the following lap suggested that maybe, just maybe, he was stopped from trying again by team orders. At least this would have been the consensus amongst English press should that have happened the other way round!! Alonso did not "request" the FIA to investigate what to everyone's eyes was more suspicious than what had "happened" in MONACO. Yes, Hamilton won the US GP (but Alonso outpaced Hamilton there!)And this includes all way throughout Q1, Q2 and Q3, until the very last extra flying lap (as also occurred previously in Canada).And we know that this season, apart from when there is a mechanical failure or significant human error, P1 is equivalent to victory (that's why enjoying that extra flying lap in Q3 is soooo important - with less fuel)

MAGNY-COURS: mechanical problems for Alonso with the gear change system and suspension hydraulics or electronics. I can't remember now. No foul play. Probably bad luck?. Hamilton faster than Alonso!

SILVERSTONE: pole for Hamilton (this was clearly planned to satisfy British supporters). We know what happened after. Alonso faster than Hamilton!

NURBURGRING: Hamilton's incident. Alonso had the same problem with his car. Only he was luckier. I could not compare performances as Hamilton may have been physically in a poorer condition. But I have to give Alonso the benefit of the doubt in this one. Alonso faster than Hamilton!

HUNGARORING: the second incident. Naughty boys (both Hamilton and Alonso)! Alonso actually was faster when he did his best lap (faster than Hamilton with same fuel loads). Of course, Hamilton intentions were to steal Alonso's extra lap knowing than P1= Victory in here. He wanted to enjoy that extra flying lap (and with less fuel load) so it was likely he could have improved Alonso's lap. But on equal levels of fuel Alonso was faster. And do not forget, it was Alonso’s turn to enjoy the extra flying lap (Hamilton prevented him from doing so). FIA sanction absolutely inappropriate. Hamilton should now have 2 points less and Alonso 5 more (as surely Alonso would have won that race and Hamilton would have finished 2nd or third). Unfortunately for Alonso, the "judges" were a British, a German and a Chinese (it is like having an English referee in the World Cup Final between England and Spain - biased decision!). Curiously same British guy that investigated the Japanese SC mess.

TURKEY: relatively bad luck for Hamilton. Maybe he was pushing too hard and not looking after his tyres properly. Relatively because luckily for him, the tyre burst two or three corners before pit entry so he was able to finish 5th. However, Hamilton was faster!

MONZA: Alonso faster. As simple as that!

SPA: Alonso faster. As simple as that! Poisonous strategy (Hamilton 5 extra laps 2nd stint). Not investigated by FIA. Hamilton's lack of speed prevented him from overtaking Alonso. Naughty Ron .

JAPAN: Alonso's accident. Difficult weather conditions! Erratic driving behind SC. FIA does not sanction Hamilton. Abnormal real tyre pressures after 1st pit stop. Overinflation. However, let's say that Hamilton was faster than Alonso, and luckier!

CHINA: Alonso faster than Hamilton, except Q3 by 0.6 sec! Tyre pressures used in Q3 appear to be overheated causing increase of pressure, measured at 1.5 psi - normally 0.2 psi. Max Mosley and FIA are aware of this and highly suspicious. Foul play, however, would be difficult to prove. Hamilton faster in Q3, but is that real or due to some sort of manipulation? The race as expected. From P1 usually you will maintain the momentum (independently of who you are). Poor tyre treatment: Hamilton was clearly abusing intermediate tyres, driving over dried tarmac, overheating and gradually destroying them. Yes, you get more speed that way but the life span greatly diminishes. And he paid for it. Bad luck, though.

FINALLY: There have been circuits were Alonso has been clearly faster during free practice, Q1, Q2 and most of Q3 until the very last lap, when Hamilton with the extra flying lap (less fuel, do not forget) has secured P1 –. The Team, since Canada, has been clearly helping strategically Hamilton's interests and Alonso is not stupid and realises that. One now wonders whether a “magic” hand has been playing little tricks on Alonso. Nothing surprises me these days.

CONCLUSION: Maybe everybody was expecting Alonso to run easily away with the title. However, once the Team realised that Hamilton was very good, strategy changed to silently benefit/favour the McLaren breed driver. Proof for this is that the number of extra flying laps that Hamilton has enjoyed is 7 against 2 of Alonso (at the beginning of the season). And after Brazil it surely will be 8 against 2. And we know that overtaking is not easy these days (so there are huge team interests on securing P1, and surely this is the aim of McLaren for Hamilton in Brazil). This can be achieved by giving Hamilton once more the extra flying lap and if he struggles, maybe overcooking certain drivers rubber.

Equality is a nice word, but from now on it sounds to me like pathological thinking coming from Ron's mouth.

I just can’t imagine how difficult it has been for Alonso to keep focused (and I could extend on the psychological war launched by McLaren against Alonso after Monza, including Hamilton's comments (always under the protection of Ron).

:up: :up: :up: Greatest post in this thread has just been made.
That pretty much sums it up alright.
Although Japan Alonso was hit by someone early on in the race damaging his rear aero on the right side which resulted in the very sharp change of direction when going around the fast corner he crashed at.
Also Monaco was painfully obvious how much faster Alonso was. He steadily pulled away from Hamilton in convincing fashion, then the orders came to slow down and Hamilton disobeyed. Shortly after that when Hamilton banged a few barriers to try and catch a cruising Alonso when he got in his mirrors Alonso then sped up again and built a gap just like before.
It was a great display and the only thing Hamilton could do about it was whine to the press after the race and cause the FIA investigation, he had no chance to win it on the track.

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#602 Ferrari2183

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 18:11

your crazy.

so biased towards alonso its unbelievable.

just leave it, 2007 has gone, alonso didnt win, quit crying, and he won't win 2010 either.

Won't?

You seem to forget that Lewis didn't win either... those titles belong to Kimi and Ferrari.

#603 undersquare

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 18:16

back to 2007 season, I've found something I'd like to share, quite remarkable indeed IMHO

John L Sharp's view of Fernando vs Lewis

CHINA: Alonso faster than Hamilton, except Q3 by 0.6 sec! Tyre pressures used in Q3 appear to be overheated causing increase of pressure, measured at 1.5 psi - normally 0.2 psi. Max Mosley and FIA are aware of this and highly suspicious. Foul play, however, would be difficult to prove. Hamilton faster in Q3, but is that real or due to some sort of manipulation? The race as expected. From P1 usually you will maintain the momentum (independently of who you are). Poor tyre treatment: Hamilton was clearly abusing intermediate tyres, driving over dried tarmac, overheating and gradually destroying them. Yes, you get more speed that way but the life span greatly diminishes. And he paid for it. Bad luck, though.


:rotfl:

F1 tyres are run at about 1 bar, that's 14 psi. Who's this John L Sharp that you don't link to? Someone who's not shy about inventing stuff, clearly :lol:

The whole thing is such obvious rubbish, you must be reall desperate to try and use it.

#604 Brandz07

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 18:18

Won't?

You seem to forget that Lewis didn't win either... those titles belong to Kimi and Ferrari.


i didn't say he did win

#605 otoelpiloto

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 18:40

:rotfl:

F1 tyres are run at about 1 bar, that's 14 psi. Who's this John L Sharp that you don't link to? Someone who's not shy about inventing stuff, clearly :lol:

The whole thing is such obvious rubbish, you must be reall desperate to try and use it.


that's the amount of overinflation.

causing increase of pressure, measured at 1.5 psi - normally 0.2 psi

john sharp is just one fan more out of the millions who saw, listened and believed exactly as him. this text sums up pretty clear why ron dennis (and mclaren in general behind him) is enemy n1 in spain
http://timesonline.t...l-sharps-v.html

Edited by otoelpiloto, 17 June 2010 - 18:42.


#606 Brandz07

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 18:45

we could turn that post round for every single race and get lewis' point of view, its meaningless. the fact is, alonso got upstaged by a rookie, whereas you have no facts about favoritism, its all rumors.

Edited by Brandz07, 17 June 2010 - 18:45.


#607 otoelpiloto

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 18:51

we could turn that post round for every single race and get lewis' point of view, its meaningless. the fact is, alonso got upstaged by a rookie, whereas you have no facts about favoritism, its all rumors.


do it, turn it around :rotfl:

and we do have proofs and facts, it's your problem if you don't speak spanish to understand them from fernando's mouth

btw alonso was the only rookie, hamilton belonged to mclaren for 12 years, tested the car in 2006 and knew the whole team, fernando was new to the team, car, tyres and english piracy.

#608 fabr68

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 18:52

we could turn that post round for every single race and get lewis' point of view, its meaningless. the fact is, alonso got upstaged by a rookie, whereas you have no facts about favoritism, its all rumors.


"We were not racing against Kimi, we were racing against Fernando"

#609 undersquare

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 18:54

that's the amount of overinflation. john sharp is just one fan more out of the millions who saw, listened and believed exactly as him. this text sums up pretty clear why ron dennis (and mclaren in general behind him) is enemy n1 in spain
http://timesonline.t...l-sharps-v.html


Oh OK, I see about the pressure. Who measured it though? At this supposed overpressure.

And the guy is just a random blogger indulging in speculation.

And why would Ron 'race' Fernando when according to your conspiracy he could have just taken him out of the equation with a fix and not needed to leave Hamilton out driving on kevlar in China?

Don't you get what "racing Fernando" actually meant?

#610 Massacrator

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 18:55

we could turn that post round for every single race and get lewis' point of view, its meaningless. the fact is, alonso got upstaged by a rookie, whereas you have no facts about favoritism, its all rumors.

If he was so rookie, how come that was his best season in points so far?

2007 - 109
2008 - 98
2009 - 49

Yea he won the WDC in 2008, not because he did better than 2007 but just because others did worse than him that season.

Edited by Massacrator, 17 June 2010 - 18:57.


#611 Bonaventura

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 18:57

do it, turn it around :rotfl:

and we do have proofs and facts, it's your problem if you don't speak spanish to understand them from fernando's mouth

btw alonso was the only rookie, hamilton belonged to mclaren for 12 years, tested the car in 2006 and knew the whole team, fernando was new to the team, car, tyres and english piracy.

Shame on a 2 time WDC if a Rookie beats him over the season because he had a few testdays before the season
Alonso had 6years experience driving F1 cars

#612 Massacrator

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 19:00

Shame on a 2 time WDC if a Rookie beats him over the season because he had a few testdays before the season
Alonso had 6years experience driving F1 cars

As I just proved, experience means nothing, in fact every season Hamilton is doing worse and worse :wave:

#613 otoelpiloto

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 19:06

Oh OK, I see about the pressure. Who measured it though? At this supposed overpressure.

And the guy is just a random blogger indulging in speculation.

And why would Ron 'race' Fernando when according to your conspiracy he could have just taken him out of the equation with a fix and not needed to leave Hamilton out driving on kevlar in China?

Don't you get what "racing Fernando" actually meant?


alonso said it, he confirmed it alive after the qualy, on youtube you'll find all his comments, in spanish though

and ron couldn't fix anything and raise suspicion as the spanish automobile fed kept an eye on them since hungary when alonso claimed engineers bullied on him even hinting at his life integrity

#614 otoelpiloto

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 19:08

Shame on a 2 time WDC if a Rookie beats him over the season because he had a few testdays before the season
Alonso had 6years experience driving F1 cars


fernando had 0 years experience using bg, 0 years experience using a mclaren, 0 years experience dealing against a starved english press...

#615 2ms

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 19:09

As I just proved, experience means nothing, in fact every season Hamilton is doing worse and worse :wave:


Not as much as Alonso.

2007: 109pts
2008: 61pts :rotfl:
2009: 26pts :lol:

:wave:

Edited by 2ms, 17 June 2010 - 19:10.


#616 otoelpiloto

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 19:12

Not as much as Alonso.

2007: 109pts
2008: 61pts :rotfl:
2009: 26pts :lol:

:wave:


you see? with this example you also claim that being a rookie in f1 means nothing :rotfl:

#617 Ferrari2183

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 19:14

Not as much as Alonso.

2007: 109pts
2008: 61pts :rotfl:
2009: 26pts :lol:

:wave:

Alonso was driving a dog of a renault...

#618 race addicted

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 19:16

you see? with this example you also claim that being a rookie in f1 means nothing :rotfl:


And you believe that?

#619 otoelpiloto

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 19:21

And you believe that?



actually what I believe is being a rookie helped hamilton massively. he was absolutely protected and didn't know what pressure was at all, everything rolling perfect. But reality smashed hamilton on the floor, when he left of being rookie, when fighting for the championship, when the media realised england had a potential champion, when the shield of mclaren broke he brainfarted badly.

Being a rookie was rather positive, once the rookie condition became contender brrrrrrrrrrrrrr

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#620 Ferrari2183

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 19:21

Shame on a 2 time WDC if a Rookie beats him over the season because he had a few testdays before the season
Alonso had 6years experience driving F1 cars

Kimi, in a Ferrari, beat them both! Alonso did really well in 2007 all things considered. Also, I believe he has found a good home now... Here's to him making a strong challenge for the WDC. Forza Ferrari!

#621 AlanWake

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 19:25

As I just proved, experience means nothing, in fact every season Hamilton is doing worse and worse :wave:


I wouldn't say so, but without a doubt 2007 was his best F1 season to date. He was incredibly consistent, especially in the first half of the season. He didn't look like a rookie at all.

#622 Massacrator

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 19:31

I wouldn't say so, but without a doubt 2007 was his best F1 season to date. He was incredibly consistent, especially in the first half of the season. He didn't look like a rookie at all.

I still think experience doesn't mean that much. If you're a good driver, you're a good driver. You can improve some small things or mistakes you were doing. Hamilton in 2007 didn't do mistakes in the first half of the year, otherwise Alonso this year is making a lot of mistakes, and he is a very experienced driver, same as Schumacher, the most experienced driver on grid who still makes mistakes.

#623 otoelpiloto

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 19:34

Don't you think it's safe to say, given the world-recognized rabidity of Spanish press and his fans, that everyone here has heard these same old excuses 50,000 times before?


they are not excuses, I've heard it from fernando's lips, have you? that's why we can repeat it 50000 and even 5 million times if necessary. http://www.youtube.c...0...=1&index=22 to sum up the video "why did it look like a tragedy when mclaren has gotten a 1-2 grid for the race?" ..." because I'm p1"..."is that it? it's really hard what you are saying" ..."yeahh, it's really hard what I'm saying and what I'm seeing" "things in mclaren don't work when I got p1"...speechless!!!

It makes Alonso look worse than he is when people dwell on making excuses trying to claim he could have beaten the 2nd place driver 3 years ago because of blah blah blah excuses + conspiracy.

it makes alonso even bigger, specially the way he ended a year against a whole english team backing up his english driver, we spaniards lived the same situation with carlos sainz and colin mcrae in subaru, being this of ham vs fernando much more important and fernando dealt it as a real torero





#624 otoelpiloto

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 19:37

I still think experience doesn't mean that much. If you're a good driver, you're a good driver. You can improve some small things or mistakes you were doing. Hamilton in 2007 didn't do mistakes in the first half of the year, otherwise Alonso this year is making a lot of mistakes, and he is a very experienced driver, same as Schumacher, the most experienced driver on grid who still makes mistakes.


I remember fernando saying experience only gives you wise decisions, not speed, your speed is there the first minute you drive a racing car

#625 AlanWake

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 19:38

I still think experience doesn't mean that much. If you're a good driver, you're a good driver. You can improve some small things or mistakes you were doing. Hamilton in 2007 didn't do mistakes in the first half of the year, otherwise Alonso this year is making a lot of mistakes, and he is a very experienced driver, same as Schumacher, the most experienced driver on grid who still makes mistakes.


+1

#626 undersquare

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 19:43

alonso said it, he confirmed it alive after the qualy, on youtube you'll find all his comments, in spanish though

and ron couldn't fix anything and raise suspicion as the spanish automobile fed kept an eye on them since hungary when alonso claimed engineers bullied on him even hinting at his life integrity


Oh I see, Alonso said it. Fernando "I went on the countdown" Alonso. Said they fixed his tyres, for Q but not for the race? And his very life was at stake? No wonder he walked out in disgust, two weeks after the end of the season :lol: .

#627 Ferrari2183

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 19:43

So do you think that Kubica is much better car developer and team leader than Alonso then since he is doing better than Alonso did even though Renault has had much less money and development for this season (particularly relative to Ferrari and McL) than they have in probably the last decade?

I don't know how Renault works as an organisation, but based on their development pace this year as opposed to 08 and 09 I would say that they are using their resources better. I mean their development pace is right up there with Mclaren. Also, I was merely stating the performance of the car relative to the leaders.

#628 otoelpiloto

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 19:52

Oh I see, Alonso said it. Fernando "I went on the countdown" Alonso. Said they fixed his tyres, for Q but not for the race? And his very life was at stake? No wonder he walked out in disgust, two weeks after the end of the season :lol: .


yes, alonso said it, and there's no reason to think otherwise, FIA wouldn't allow inspections within mclaren just due to fernando's outbursts

it wasn't necessary for races, a "tiny failure" in qualy prevented fernando from poles, poles meant victory, races last +60 laps and hamilton could have DNFs, so there wasn't any reason to screw the whole team due to unforeseen circumstances during a race

#629 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 20:29

People may have another opinion about Alonso then you and they are free to express them in this thread.

sure

FYI I think Alonso clearly is one of the best if not the best driver out there today, but please enjoy his racing and stop the same old same old excuses used by many Alonso fans trying to make his 2007 campaing into something it weren´t.

didnt see any alonso fan doing that. They are just expressing the view of Alonso and the people that surrounded Alonso at that time!
And that is, that Ron Dennis messed it up!

Even Whitmarsh distanced himself from the Dennis-approach!

#630 Lokt

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 20:29

[quote name='otoelpiloto' date='Jun 17 2010, 21:52' post='4422170']
yes, alonso said it, and there's no reason to think otherwise, FIA wouldn't allow inspections within mclaren just due to fernando's outbursts

it wasn't necessary for races, a "tiny failure" in qualy prevented fernando from poles, poles meant victory, races last +60 laps and hamilton could have DNFs, so there wasn't any reason to screw the whole team due to unforeseen circumstances during a race
[/quote

You can´t know that Alonso would have won if he started from pole so why bring it up? and whose to say Alonso wouldn´t have had the DNFs instead of Hamliton, stop reading tea leafs

#631 Lokt

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 20:32

sure


didnt see any alonso fan doing that. They are just expressing the view of Alonso and the people that surrounded Alonso at that time!
And that is, that Ron Dennis messed it up!

Even Whitmarsh distanced himself from the Dennis-approach!


I´m not gonna get draged into this 2007 debate, as I said before, it´s a dead horse people keep hitting on.
I´d rather dicuss Alonso´s 2010 campaing.

#632 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 20:36

I´m not gonna get draged into this 2007 debate, as I said before, it´s a dead horse people keep hitting on.

wise decision ;)

I´d rather dicuss Alonso´s 2010 campaing.

okay, we alonso fans like this season too :cool:

#633 otoelpiloto

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 20:38

You can´t know that Alonso would have won if he started from pole so why bring it up? and whose to say Alonso wouldn´t have had the DNFs instead of Hamliton, stop reading tea leafs


no intentions to read the future whatsoever. If you asked every single member of a f1 team in 2007, pole was key to win a race

#634 Flamini

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 21:10

Is it because Spain does not have as many other athletes to concentrate their pride in or something like that?


:eek:

Football national team, FC Barcelona, Real Madrid, Alberto Contador, Rafael Nadal...and i'm even not from Spain.

Edited by Flamini, 17 June 2010 - 21:11.


#635 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 21:13

The extent some people will go to in rewriting 2007

why rewriting?
everything that was posted until now, is already common sense, and has nothing to do with rewriting!



#636 otoelpiloto

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 21:17

why rewriting?
everything that was posted until now, is already common sense, and has nothing to do with rewriting!


there's no rewriting, just reminder

#637 otoelpiloto

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 21:19

:eek:

Football national team, FC Barcelona, Real Madrid, Alberto Contador, Rafael Nadal...and i'm even not from Spain.


basketball, handball, tennis armada, moto gp, moto 2, 125 cc and a long etc

#638 otoelpiloto

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 21:40

Yes that amzes me too. As for the great British press conspiracy, F1 is poorly covered in the British press and any anti-Alonso sentiment is tame (I've never noticed any to be frank) when compared to what the likes of Schumacher and Senna received. I'm sure the Spanish press provide you with all the insight you require.


british press image of fernando has radically changed from 2007 until nowadays, in 2007 they were a nightmare, they found out a champion and their thirst was overfilled by downplaying fernando. Fernando claimed once that people who's hurt him the most in F1 was british press

#639 buzatlas

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 21:42

I have to agree with yr when he says Alonso could/should lead comfortably the championship.
But not because he underperformed, actually he shows so far a shining pace considering the F10 and because of that he could be leading the charts.

It just happened that some little errors were costly but everything is still open. Some errors due to too much ambition and also some bad luck and this could change as he gels better with Ferrari. Also lets not forget he also had is share of luck in Bahrain and Barcelona so the points tally is not that negative.



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#640 otoelpiloto

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 21:45

As for Spain, I was under the impression that it is quite prolific in producing successful sportsmen, albeit not traditionally in motor-racing.


although I agree with most of you say, don't the angel nietos, crivilles, carlos sainzs, pedrosas, lorenzos, checas tell you something?


#641 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 21:53

I dont know what the debate is precisely focused on now but I didnt see this link posted here so here it is: Alonso promises Ferrari surge
I thought Alonso was out of the title hunt after Turkey, but now I actually think he has a good chance of winning it. Valencia will be a make or break race for that imo due to all the significant upgrades they have there. If those upgrades dont work, I dont see them catching up with Red Bull and/or especially McLaren.

People seem to have forgotten that last year, in the middle part of the season and in a car that was getting ever less competitive, Kimi was the driver who had scored the most points.

He mentions Kimi too as an argument for a strong final part of the season. However, the F60 was overall pretty inferior to the F10 who was a racewinning car from the first race. Which Alonso believed he would have won even without Vettels problem. In that light we should expect Alonso to win or be on the podium from now on in basically.

#642 aditya-now

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 22:27

It's nice to see how many posts are coming in the Alonso thread now.
People are waking up, feeling that Fernando is "on a charge".

To me, the battle for WDC has just commenced.

#643 otoelpiloto

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 22:31

It's nice to see how many posts are coming in the Alonso thread now.
People are waking up, feeling that Fernando is "on a charge".

To me, the battle for WDC has just commenced.


your theory works for me :drunk: :up: :p

#644 NZX_Lorne

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 22:34

What was it that prevented Alonso being competitive so far? As far as I know, Ferrari was fastest in raceday and second only to Redbull in quals when season started. If driver really makes differance, then surely Alonso should be leading standings by a healthy margin by now. Your "Alonso gets slightly competitive and challenge other top drivers..." must mean the driver - not car - because there was nothing wrong with a car in first 5 or 6 races compared to competitors. Well, yeah, lets hope Alonso gets slightly competitive, because it would be nice to see that even one Ferrari driver wouldnt waste one of best seats in grid totally like they both have done so far.

I'm sure Felipe wishes Kimi were still in the team. Then everyone would be saying the Ferrari is a crap car this year and Felipe is performing magic again by beating Kimi in points for the third straight season. :wave:


#645 Nitropower

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 23:08

If F10b turns to be a title challenger then we are going to have a lot of fun. Can't wait to see if they can up their game to match McLaren. Yes, I think Redbull don't have the drivers and reliability, so what?

#646 zeph

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 00:00

I believe it was Ron's intention for his "experiment" to drive the best car and learn from the best driver in the series starting from his very first year in F1.
but the plan soon changed. commercial interest alone was enough for it to happen that way. its understandable.
Having a spaniard put an end to the Kaiser domination was not news to sells those newspapers.
Then Lewis surprised everybody giving hope to british fans, and the terribly untruthful and cruel press shaped that hope at will.
You needed that hero, you have it.


I lean towards this view as well. That was how it looked to me at the time, anyway.



#647 Kovalonso

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 01:04

The reality is Alonso hasn't been impressive for years already.

Alonso seems to be a hostage of a certain moment of time and special conditions and I mean Renault + Michelin + Massdamper + #1A status.

Just like Villeneuve, he doesn't seem to be so good out of these specialized conditions.

#648 Yorkie

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 01:06

yeah yeah, as biased towards fernando as the team was towards lewis.

and why should I leave 2007? I like talking about it, and this topic is fernando alonso and as far as I know I'm talking about fernando alonso. Alonso didn't win, neither did hamilton who, quoting MARCA headlines after brazil, did the biggest ridicule of the century. I'm quite proud of what alonso managed in 2007 against the great britain empire, it wasn't a dissapointment at all

Were not pre-dating back to the Spanish armada are we?

do it, turn it around :rotfl:

and we do have proofs and facts, it's your problem if you don't speak spanish to understand them from fernando's mouth

btw alonso was the only rookie, hamilton belonged to mclaren for 12 years, tested the car in 2006 and knew the whole team, fernando was new to the team, car, tyres and english piracy.

I think Lewis had 1 test

As I just proved, experience means nothing, in fact every season Hamilton is doing worse and worse :wave:

Yes he's doing really bad this season :rolleyes:

#649 zeph

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 01:32

The reality is Alonso hasn't been impressive for years already.


I don't think that goes. He did end on equal points with Hamilton in 2007, and he has consistently outpaced Massa this season.
If you think that is only because Massa sucks, remember he was vice-champion in 2008 (by 1 point) and more consistent over all than Raikkonen in the last two seasons. I mean, if they suck, everybody sucks and we really should not watch F1.


#650 otoelpiloto

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 02:07

The reality is Alonso hasn't been impressive for years already.

Alonso seems to be a hostage of a certain moment of time and special conditions and I mean Renault + Michelin + Massdamper + #1A status.

Just like Villeneuve, he doesn't seem to be so good out of these specialized conditions.


in your blindfolded eyes might not be the case, as he's been far away of fighting for championships, for those of us who follow him he's been stronger than ever, destroying literally piquet, grosjean and now massa, the only drivers whom one can be compared really.