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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#6701 ArtShelley

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 13:33

Frankly, you don't really need a source, the Symmonds statement speaks for itself. Nobody would say that about a driver he gets along with well, even if it were true. And I think in Symmonds case we can easily dismiss the other option, that he's just a honest guy always speaking the truth no matter what. :D


I don't agree as65p. He didn't say it in a manner that was vindictive (of course it's difficult when it's just words on a page and can't hear his words or see his expression). He seemed to say it quite matter of factly and in response to a question about Alonso. Fair enough, to many everything about him will be tainted because of crashgate, but the guy has a lot of cred still in F1 circles. He will always regret his participation in that fiasco. Unfortunately for his the Briatore influence was strong.

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#6702 Ferrim

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 13:34

The 2007 Ferrari was much faster than Mclaren. This is not even disputable now that we have seen Massa vs Alonso in equal cars. Ive seen a few comments about how the regulations were different, the cars were different, but all that matters is that the drivers were the same, thus giving us a relative base line. Based on this, the 07 Ferrari was generally 0.5 - 1.0 faster at most tracks that season, with the Mclaren being a little closer on a few tracks, like Monaco, Indy, Canada.


We still haven't learned from the Villeneuve-Hill-Frentzen comparison, it seems.

Hill beat Villeneuve in '96; Villeneuve beat Frentzen in '97; Frentzen beat Hill in '99.

Also consider these:

Alonso > Fisichella > Massa = Räikkönen. But Räikkönen destroyed Fisichella at Ferrari. If you say Massa > Räikkönen then it's even worse.

Hamilton > Kovalainen = Fisichella > Button. Which basically means Hamilton should had had an even bigger advantage over Button than over Kovalainen. It didn't happen.

Heidfeld had the better of Kubica in 2007, Kubica had the better of Heidfeld in 2008, they were evenly matched in 2009.

Barrichello used to match and even beat Button on poor cars (2007 and 2008), but was blown away in 2008 and 2009.


Different drivers in different cars designed to different rules with different tyres and different engines against different drivers and at different points of their careers CAN'T be compared. But I'm stating the obvious.

#6703 Oho

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 14:17

Should I write 30,000 word posts to cover every detail possible with a given subject so someone can't expand upon it in a way which is not explicitly relevant to the main point of the post?



Yes it was, it certainly gave an impression you don't know what the hell you are talking about. The notion of irradiating the entire brain with ionizing energies with slice separation sufficiently small to asses damage to brain with a method not suited for the task unless oncological or stereo-tactic radiation therapy is planned seems, well, obtuse, when MRI and/or fMRI certainly are available to a patient like Felipe Massa. I sure as hell would not want my brain scanned with CT unless I was going under gantry and needed CT stack for treatment planning.

Edited by Oho, 31 January 2011 - 14:19.


#6704 prty

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 14:22

Source?


I think it started in Indy 2003, when while Alonso was ahead of Trulli in the WDC and was fighting for 3rd position, they gave the new iteration of engine (only one available) to Trulli. I'm not going to look for 2003 TV transmisions and info, so take it or not. Over the years Symonds has been critisizing Alonso here and there.


#6705 ArtShelley

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 15:08

Ok, now I was interested in this "Pat Symonds doesn't get along with Alonso theory" so I thought let's be open minded and see if there's any truth to that basis. So here is what I've found:

1) Pat Symonds: In May 2007 http://news.bbc.co.u...one/6655491.stm

Design chief Pat Symonds worked with Alonso at Renault and said the situation may be getting to the world champion more than he liked to admit. "The thing he really hates is being beaten by his team-mate, and when it happened with us he could be come irrational - I suspect that will be the same again," he said.


2) Pat Symonds: Again in October 2007 http://www.duemotori...Pat_Symonds.php

Symonds, who worked at Toleman with Ayrton Senna, and also with Michael Schumacher at Benetton, describes Alonso as "one of the most difficult drivers to understand" that he has personally encountered.

"He's a very complex character," the Briton said, amid Alonso's seemingly broken relationships with his current team boss Ron Dennis and teammate Lewis Hamilton, who this weekend in China could wrap up the title. "He only had one very, very small chink in his armour when he drove for us," Symonds explained, "and that was the inability to accept being beaten." "Actually that's a really good quality, but it was the one time he was perhaps slightly irrational -- when Giancarlo (Fisichella) beat him, for example." "I think that what we've seen this year, with Lewis unexpectedly giving him such a hard time, it's opened up that chink a little bit," Symonds said.


To also be fair, in that same article Briatore as corrupt as he is, does make a possibly very valid point about Ron Dennis and how he didn't handle things well in his opinion.

3) Here is where it gets very interesting. Steve Nielsen, Renault's sporting director had this to say in early 2007 http://www.huliq.com...-win-then-title

Alonso's former team manager at Renault would be surprised if Hamilton's rise wasn't creating some self-doubt in the Spaniard. "In his career, he has always been comfortably faster than teammates, and now he's got a guy who's his equal, if not maybe a little bit quicker," Steve Nielsen said. "The few times we saw Fernando really under pressure were when his teammate beat him. That's the situation he's in now."


4) Steve Nielsen later in 2010 http://www.autoevolu...take-22053.html

“We know what happened (at McLaren), and he came back. I actually think it was probably a mistake. I don't know if he agrees with me but he knows I love him,” said Nielsen in a recent interview with eurosport.fr. “If I had been his manager at the time, I would have told him 'Listen, you have to stay and beat this guy (Lewis Hamilton)'. 'Firstly because you have the best car now, secondly because your best chance to be champion next year is to stay at McLaren',” added the Renault boss.


Now would any person, let alone the team's sporting director and someone who openly proclaims his admiration for Alonso, say that he should have stayed at McLaren if he truly believed that they would not give him equal opportunity? Of course not. In fact, in the above he complements Alonso's great driving talent because he openly states his belief that Alonso could have beaten Lewis based on talent/experience/determination if only he didn't let his mind overcome him.

The writing is on the wall, and for all the flak Ron Dennis gets for 2007 and I have no doubt he deserves some of that as he probably could have managed the situation better, it seems pretty clear that it was caused by one 2 x WDC expecting to be treated as No.1 whilst the other was out to prove he was definitely not a No.2.

Having said that, I think Alonso has probably looked inwards and learnt a lot from that year and may not react so badly if Massa does beat him in any races. Not that I think that will happen very often this season, though if it does I guess only then will be sure if he has learnt. Actually as Nielsen said, I think the inability to accept being beaten is a great thing if used positively to improve performance rather than used negatively to become paranoid and which decreases performance.

#6706 ArtShelley

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 15:18

I think it started in Indy 2003, when while Alonso was ahead of Trulli in the WDC and was fighting for 3rd position, they gave the new iteration of engine (only one available) to Trulli. I'm not going to look for 2003 TV transmisions and info, so take it or not. Over the years Symonds has been critisizing Alonso here and there.


No source eh. It's interesting though, even back in 2003 Symonds was against him. Then again in 2008 he was so against him that he risked (and subsequently lost) his career in a scandal which resulted in the other driver crashing just so Alonso could win. Nielsen too, who's echoed exactly what Symonds said, also was against him. All these Renault people against him. It's a wonder he won the championship in 2005 (what with both Nielsen and Symonds against him). An even bigger wonder that their hate couldn't prevent him winning in 2006 (again with those haters Nielsen and Symonds in key Alonso hating positions). Then he went to McLaren and they too were against him and despite big, bad Ron he still almost won the championship missing out by only 1 point. All these different people in different teams against poor little Alonso. I hope Ferrari don't turn against him too. Though knowing Alonso, he'll probably still win another championship despite all those people against him there too. I can only guess that his achievements would shade Schumacher's records into oblivious if he ever found a team that..well..wasn't against him.

Edited by ArtShelley, 31 January 2011 - 15:20.


#6707 prty

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 15:48

No source eh. It's interesting though, even back in 2003 Symonds was against him. Then again in 2008 he was so against him that he risked (and subsequently lost) his career in a scandal which resulted in the other driver crashing just so Alonso could win. Nielsen too, who's echoed exactly what Symonds said, also was against him. All these Renault people against him. It's a wonder he won the championship in 2005 (what with both Nielsen and Symonds against him). An even bigger wonder that their hate couldn't prevent him winning in 2006 (again with those haters Nielsen and Symonds in key Alonso hating positions). Then he went to McLaren and they too were against him and despite big, bad Ron he still almost won the championship missing out by only 1 point. All these different people in different teams against poor little Alonso. I hope Ferrari don't turn against him too. Though knowing Alonso, he'll probably still win another championship despite all those people against him there too. I can only guess that his achievements would shade Schumacher's records into oblivious if he ever found a team that..well..wasn't against him.


Look, as I said, believe it or not. But don't (well, do whatever you want) write long posts with quotes that don't prove anything, or try to say that Symonds had nothing to gain in Singapore, it was all for Alonso, or say that Symonds was against him when no one said that :drunk:

#6708 MichaelPM

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 16:21

Yes it was, it certainly gave an impression you don't know what the hell you are talking about. The notion of irradiating the entire brain with ionizing energies with slice separation sufficiently small to asses damage to brain with a method not suited for the task unless oncological or stereo-tactic radiation therapy is planned seems, well, obtuse, when MRI and/or fMRI certainly are available to a patient like Felipe Massa. I sure as hell would not want my brain scanned with CT unless I was going under gantry and needed CT stack for treatment planning.

So my post stating the cat was skinned by professionals with access to the best resources available is incorrect because there is "more than one way to skin a cat".

Well at least we raised our post count slightly so we can say something useful was achieved.

#6709 cardin

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 16:39

So my post stating the cat was skinned by professionals with access to the best resources available is incorrect because there is "more than one way to skin a cat".

Well at least we raised our post count slightly so we can say something useful was achieved.


Don't sell yourself short. Besides increasing the post count It also showed you have no idea what you are talking about.


#6710 ArtShelley

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 16:45

Look, as I said, believe it or not. But don't (well, do whatever you want) write long posts with quotes that don't prove anything, or try to say that Symonds had nothing to gain in Singapore, it was all for Alonso, or say that Symonds was against him when no one said that :drunk:


The "long posts with quotes" don't prove anything. Of that you are quite correct. But they are anecdotal evidence. Don't you find it interesting that two different guys from Renault have said the same thing? Ok you believe Symonds didn't get along well with Alonso. But now I've showed you two separate quotes at two separate times from Renault's Sporting Director, Steve Nielsen, and it seems you've just ignored it. Fine, though you look like a fanboy.

By the way, I don't hate Alonso, I don't dislike Alonso and in fact I greatly admire Alonso and as a fan of F1 I am sincerely grateful that drivers of his calibre exist in the sport so that we can look forward to some fantastic racing. I'm not a "hater" just because I don't make excuses for him and blame Ron Dennis for what happened in 2007. Nothing is fact because nothing is proved beyond doubt, but there is enough to strongly suggest that Alonso expects No.1 status as 4 separate managers within the sport have openly stated, or strongly alluded to this.

http://www.sb-788.co...ticises-ferrari
Whitmarsh alludes to what happened in 2007 in reference to Massa moving over for Alonso in Germany 2010.

Alonso in 2006 http://www.auto123.c...lla?artid=65678

Fernando Alonso has gently criticised team-mate Giancarlo Fisichella for playing a quiet role in the battle for the 2006 World Championship. The Spaniard was confined to third place at the start of Magny Cours' F1 race last Sunday when title rival Michael Schumacher's team-mate, Felipe Massa, assertively closed down a passing move. "Schumacher was able to take advantage of Massa's work," Alonso was quoted as saying by Spanish newspaper Diario de Noticias.
Surely referring to Fisichella, who meandered around in sixth or seventh place throughout the French Grand Prix event, he added: "Unfortunately, not everyone can benefit from the same things. I always race alone without any help."
Fisichella has had just three podium finishes so far this year.


No doubt he thought the same about Massa in 2010.

Then http://www.station.l...lt-support.html

Fernando Alonso has criticised members of his Renault team for not backing his title defence wholeheartedly. The Spaniard is due to leave for McLaren at the end of the year and he believes there are some in the team who would rather he did not take the coveted number one with him. Alonso lost his championship lead for the first time this season after trailing in behind race winner and title rival Michael Schumacher in a Chinese Grand Prix that Renault should have won. "The whole team is gutted, apart from the handful of people who don't want me to take the number one to McLaren," Alonso told Spanish television. "Some others are happy because we went past Ferrari in the team battle. They are not helping me as much as they could."


In many parts admirable as his passion for winning is addictive, but he also exhibits a very strong persecution complex.

#6711 MichaelPM

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 16:54

Don't sell yourself short. Besides increasing the post count It also showed you have no idea what you are talking about.

1,455 troll posts without being banned yet, very impressive.

#6712 cardin

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 17:06

1,455 troll posts without being banned yet, very impressive.


I doubt you read all my 1400+ posts but if you did I bet you could not find platitudes like the following:

Modern treatment and analyse of brain trauma can't even remotely be compared to decades ago. It's a complex subject to speak about generally but if the doctors can't see a physical issue with Massa's recovery through CT scans and declare him fit to return physically then its the unequivocal truth.


The point is; it's more than a little tiresome, and downright predictable, to read post after post by Alonso's fanboys clueless brain damage 'experts' stating Massa is a 100% fit.


#6713 prty

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 17:36

The "long posts with quotes" don't prove anything. Of that you are quite correct. But they are anecdotal evidence. Don't you find it interesting that two different guys from Renault have said the same thing? Ok you believe Symonds didn't get along well with Alonso. But now I've showed you two separate quotes at two separate times from Renault's Sporting Director, Steve Nielsen, and it seems you've just ignored it. Fine, though you look like a fanboy.


Stopped reading there.

And you still missed the point. Quotes, be positive or negative, don't tell if they get along or not, especially in the PR world F1.

Anyway you don't have to be very smart to know how the Alonso-Symonds relationship went when they gave Trulli the engine (this one is easy to check if you have the time, I certainly am not going to do it) being behind in the WDC.


#6714 as65p

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 18:07

I doubt you read all my 1400+ posts but if you did I bet you could not find platitudes like the following:



The point is; it's more than a little tiresome, and downright predictable, to read post after post by Alonso's fanboys clueless brain damage 'experts' stating Massa is a 100% fit.


Whereas I'm sure Massa is thrilled by those supporters that declare him brain-damaged and a shadow of his former self. Who needs bashers with fans like that? :p

#6715 cardin

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 19:21

Whereas I'm sure Massa is thrilled by those supporters that declare him brain-damaged and a shadow of his former self. Who needs bashers with fans like that? :p


Once more you missed the point and, I'm sorry to say, that's not really a surprise. I've never said in any of my posts that Massa is suffering from the consequences of his acident
because I don't know enough to say one way or another. Even if I said that(which I didn't) it wouldn't mean, as your post suggest, that it would be demeaning to Massa in any way. Brain injurys, of course depending on how serious they are, can heal. Although it may take time.
On another note, your posts, and not only when replying to me, are condescending and sarcastic. The problem is your sarcasm often times fall flat, you seem to be trying to punch above your weight. I would strongly suggest you tone down a couple of notches.

#6716 tifosiMac

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 19:34

The "long posts with quotes" don't prove anything. Of that you are quite correct. But they are anecdotal evidence. Don't you find it interesting that two different guys from Renault have said the same thing? Ok you believe Symonds didn't get along well with Alonso. But now I've showed you two separate quotes at two separate times from Renault's Sporting Director, Steve Nielsen, and it seems you've just ignored it. Fine, though you look like a fanboy.

Some very interesting interview quotes from Alonso over the years and although I did back him in his frustration during his Renault days, theres no getting away from the fact he lashes out when he feels threatened. I could have done with having these as bookmarks over the years... :)

#6717 as65p

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 21:28

Once more you missed the point and, I'm sorry to say, that's not really a surprise. I've never said in any of my posts that Massa is suffering from the consequences of his acident


No, you just jump on anyone who believes Massa himself, his doctors and not least Ferrari, all of which are of the opinion that Massa has fully recovered. That's the same thing but, characteristically, through the back door.

On another note, your posts, and not only when replying to me, are condescending and sarcastic. The problem is your sarcasm often times fall flat, you seem to be trying to punch above your weight. I would strongly suggest you tone down a couple of notches.


You suggest, and strongly? :lol: Can you get any more pompous? Come on give it a try!

#6718 cardin

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 22:21

No, you just jump on anyone who believes Massa himself, his doctors and not least Ferrari, all of which are of the opinion that Massa has fully recovered.


I'm sorry I was just not very well informed. I don't even know the names of his doctors and I didn't know you not only know them but also know the test results. The only coment from a medical doctor I've read is from Dr. Sid Watkins. He said an injury like Massa's takes at least 2 years to heal a 100% but what does he know ?

That's the same thing but, characteristically, through the back door.


Is that your best stab at logic ?

You suggest, and strongly? :lol: Can you get any more pompous? Come on give it a try!


Please disconsider the suggestion. Your posts are very entertaining as they are.


#6719 as65p

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 23:23

I'm sorry I was just not very well informed.


That much is obvious.

I don't even know the names of his doctors and I didn't know you not only know them but also know the test results. The only coment from a medical doctor I've read is from Dr. Sid Watkins. He said an injury like Massa's takes at least 2 years to heal a 100% but what does he know ?


You should read a bit more before making sweaping statements. The news that he has fully recovered according to the doctors in charge seems to have escaped you completely. No, I'm not going to look it up for you.

Please disconsider the suggestion. Your posts are very entertaining as they are.


Thanks. I knew you'd change your mind. :D

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#6720 showtime

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 00:05

So, tomorrow Alonso will be driving the F150, you know 2010 pre season tests and that... just saying :wave:

#6721 as65p

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 00:16

Them we have all the reasons to conclude you are just making this all up. Not a first for you I'm afraid. And BTW you have no idea what the expression 'sweeping statement' means


Who's "we"? The royal one or is it just you looking for allies? :lol:

Thanks for following my encouragement to get more pompous. You succeeded! :up:

Anyway, here's a teaser for you, it even has the name of a doctor in it, which seems somehow important to you. There are more, of course. Have fun getting informed better! :)

#6722 cardin

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 00:41

Who's "we"? The royal one or is it just you looking for allies? :lol:

Thanks for following my encouragement to get more pompous. You succeeded! :up:

Anyway, here's a teaser for you, it even has the name of a doctor in it, which seems somehow important to you. There are more, of course. Have fun getting informed better! :)


By we I meant anybody who has a brain and I don't need allies your posts are all I need. If you make a statment you have to back it up otherwise it's poor form.
You presented a link to a report of him being cleared up for testing in an empty track. It's actually pretty safe to assume that he was also cleared by his doctors to race.
But that is not the point, I know, you missed it again. Go back read all the posts and try really hard to understand the point. A hint for you, there's a world of difference between being fit to race and not suffering any consequences from an injury like that that wouldn't affect his performance. Just a reminder; I'm not saying he's suffering any consequences from his injury because I dont know enough to say one way or another.

Edited by cardin, 01 February 2011 - 00:48.


#6723 as65p

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 00:52

By we I meant anybody who has a brain and I don't need allies your posts are all I need. If you make a statment you have to back it up otherwise it's poor form.
You presented a link to a report of him being cleared up for testing in an empty track. It's actually pretty safe to assume that he was also cleared by his doctors to race.
But that is not the point, I know, you missed it again. Go back read all the posts and try really hard to understand the point. A hint for you, there's a world of difference between being fit to race and not suffering any consequences from an injury like that would affect his performance. Just a reminder; I'm not saying he's suffering any consequences from his injury because I dont know enough to say one way or another.


Yeah, but remember: we're about to change that issue of you not knowing enough.

Here we go, next round. I like this... :D

This time it's got two doctors names in it :eek: , BUT, it's in german. Hard, I admit, but you know how it works, difficulty get's up with every level. Take your time, I'm having a bit of sleep meanwhile. :wave:

Edited by as65p, 01 February 2011 - 06:40.


#6724 cardin

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 01:06

Yeah, but remember: we're about to change that issue of you not knowing enough.

Here we go, next round. I like this... :D

This time it's got two doctors names in it :eek: , BUT, it's in german. Hard, I admit, but you know how it works, difficulty get's up with every level. Take your time, I'm having a bit of sleep meanwhile. :wave:


Yes you need your sleep. Even when you are fully awaken your posts hardly make any sense but the one above takes the cake. And if it means that I have to remind you of what the point of the discussion is at every post, thanks, but no thanks, I'll pass.


#6725 NZX_Lorne

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 02:01

[massive snip...]
The writing is on the wall, and for all the flak Ron Dennis gets for 2007 and I have no doubt he deserves some of that as he probably could have managed the situation better, it seems pretty clear that it was caused by one 2 x WDC expecting to be treated as No.1 whilst the other was out to prove he was definitely not a No.2.

Please... After Monaco things were as equal as can be between the McLaren teammates and it stayed that way up until Hungary. During that time period, I don't remember Alonso screaming for no1 status, frankly, it was during that time when FA seemed to reluctantly accept the fact that the team were going to shit all over him in favor of the most-hyped-rookie-ever....... However, what is very clear is that going into Hungary, Fernando had gotten himself to within 2pts of the chosen child, and it seemed to me that said child was worried about it---for good reason!....... With it being impossible to pass on that track, an Alonso pole/win - a very likely outcome given it being FA's turn to receive the extra lap - just might see the 2x WDC reclaim the points lead and possibly reclaim some status in the team/press.

Hamilton (or I should say; daddy) saw that coming and it was HAM (not Fernando) who demanded no1 status... In fact the boy king wasn't even willing to wait around for a reply to his demands... no, no, he decided it best to *steal* no1 status in the most unsportsmanlike way possible. Going against team orders, what was agreed to, what was fair... In the end, he actually had the unmitigated gall to tell off his team boss! (Ron) the guy who gave him a career that will see him earn 1-billion over time... "Don't you ever do that to me again!" the arrogant youngster screamed.

Hamilton demanded no1 status in that team, not FA. And whether it was true love or the hype from the press, or both, Ron became obsessed with the thought that the British kid just might have what it takes to pull it off in his rookie season, who gives a damn what that does to his great - albeit slightly fragile - proven champion and all around nice guy, Fernando. :p

At least Ron and the kid got exactly what they deserved... Here's hoping that Fernando will get what he deserves this year and that one day all HAM fans will have more than just a false sense of what happened in '07 to boast about! :clap:

#6726 ArtShelley

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 07:10

Stopped reading there.

And you still missed the point. Quotes, be positive or negative, don't tell if they get along or not, especially in the PR world F1.

Anyway you don't have to be very smart to know how the Alonso-Symonds relationship went when they gave Trulli the engine (this one is easy to check if you have the time, I certainly am not going to do it) being behind in the WDC.


You seem to keep jumping to Alonso-Symonds supposed poor relationship. That's fine if the only quotes were from him. However the additional quotes from different people paint a stronger picture. Also, I completely agree with you that you don't have to be smart to think the reason for the quote is due to a supposedly sour Alonso-Symonds relationship. You don't have to be very smart at all to think that.

#6727 ArtShelley

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 07:15

Please... After Monaco things were as equal as can be between the McLaren teammates and it stayed that way up until Hungary. During that time period, I don't remember Alonso screaming for no1 status


You're correct, I don't remember Alonso screaming for No.1 status. I do however clearly remember him weaving towards the stands on the main straight at Indianapolis with his trademark fist out of the car enraged like a mad bull because McLaren wouldn't ask the No.2 to move over. :rotfl:

PS. I fully agree that Lewis was sneaky at Hungary. However what Alonso did afterwards negated all of that. He shouldn't have matched Hamilton's childishness, let alone easily surpass it. He didn't give the team a chance to intervene because he took matters in his own hands. It's of little doubt that Hamilton's speed fazed Alonso. We saw that in Canada when Hamilton owned that track all weekend. Alonso's driving that day..well..it didn't look like Alonso at all. It was almost as if Alonso's brother was driving the car that day :rotfl:

Edited by ArtShelley, 01 February 2011 - 07:20.


#6728 tifosiMac

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 07:18

Anyway you don't have to be very smart to know how the Alonso-Symonds relationship went when they gave Trulli the engine (this one is easy to check if you have the time, I certainly am not going to do it) being behind in the WDC.

Sounds like Alonso was cutting his nose off to spite his face (if true).
Holding a grudge against the man who is in charge of research and development or the man who is directly responsible for giving you a championship winning car sounds abit dumb. They may have had a disagreement or two but there was plenty of positive vibes when between them when Alonso was winning. I'd say that is complete BS.

#6729 Atic Atac

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 07:20

You're correct, I don't remember Alonso screaming for No.1 status. I do however clearly remember him weaving towards the stands on the main straight at Indianapolis with his trademark fist out of the car enraged like a mad bull because McLaren wouldn't ask the No.2 to move over. :rotfl:


IIRC, he was weaving beacause the team forbid him to make a second attack on Hamilton ;)

#6730 AlanWake

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 07:49

IIRC, he was weaving beacause the team forbid him to make a second attack on Hamilton ;)

Who knows? I would not be surprised if Mclaren told him on the radio: "Save fuel, Fernando, save fuel!" :p

#6731 tifosiMac

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 07:56

Who knows? I would not be surprised if Mclaren told him on the radio: "Save fuel, Fernando, save fuel!" :p

:lol:
They only do that when they want Button to get past Hamilton.. :)

#6732 ArtShelley

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 12:11

IIRC, he was weaving beacause the team forbid him to make a second attack on Hamilton ;)


100% you don't remember correctly. No source. 100%

#6733 robefc

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 12:16

Please... After Monaco things were as equal as can be between the McLaren teammates


Erm precisely, at the beginning of the season they weren't equal hence lewis out to prove he wouldn't/shouldn't be number 2.

I've rarely seen someone confirm the point of the person they've quoted so well whilst trying to do the opposite.

The rest of your post is just a tad biased.

#6734 robefc

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 12:19

IIRC, he was weaving beacause the team forbid him to make a second attack on Hamilton ;)


I don't remember seeing/hearing or reading anything to that effect.

The obvious explanation would seem to be he was frustrated that he couldn't get past hamilton and that the team were telling him he had to get past on his own steam.

This would certainly fit with outbursts he made at both renault and ferrari when he was behind a teammate he felt was slower.

#6735 ArtShelley

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 12:48

Who knows? I would not be surprised if Mclaren told him on the radio: "Save fuel, Fernando, save fuel!" :p




Lewis' race engineer to Lewis just after he won the race, as heard clearly on the above video:

Ron was very adamant on that race. He let you and Fernando fight fair and square, despite some..a request from Fernando so probably worth giving him a big thank you

Ouch!

Then there's clear video of Nando swerving and waving his hand at the team. Coupled with the above radio message, it's crystal clear. Yet it seems Nando lies just as well as Lewis:
http://formula-1.upd...werve/view.html

Some TV angles suggested that the Spaniard also shook his fist, a lap after failing to make an attempt to pass his teammate Lewis Hamilton stick for the lead of the race at Indianapolis. But in the post-race press conference, 25-year-old Alonso said he was just trying to cool his car.

Oh my :well:

#6736 Buckethead

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 12:54

Not this again

#6737 flowvis

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 12:58

Hamilton (or I should say; daddy) saw that coming and it was HAM (not Fernando) who demanded no1 status...


Your posts are worryingly vitriolic. Can you please post up some evidence that Lewis "demanded" no.1 status?

Also, Lewis wasn't the one that started trashing rooms and blackmailing his team during spygate. "Make me no1 or I'm gonna tell on you Ron". "Go ahead Fernando"

#6738 Flojoe

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 12:58

come on guys.....give it a rest...we are in 2011 and yet its back to the future/past to 2007............

#6739 wj_gibson

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 13:04

All concerned appear to have got over the 2007 season.

Except for some people on F1 forums, of course.

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#6740 flowvis

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 13:06

All concerned appear to have got over the 2007 season.

Except for some people on F1 forums, of course.


And Fernando himself of course.. :rotfl:

#6741 ArtShelley

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 13:17

Your posts are worryingly vitriolic. Can you please post up some evidence that Lewis "demanded" no.1 status?

Also, Lewis wasn't the one that started trashing rooms and blackmailing his team during spygate. "Make me no1 or I'm gonna tell on you Ron". "Go ahead Fernando"


I don't think Lewis demanded No.1 status but he became overly paranoid. He knew Nando wanted No.1 status but he should have trusted the team and its principles more. Lewis was paranoid too and his actions, for example at Hungary, contributed to the mess of 2007.

http://www.racer.com...article/165075/

"At the beginning of my first year I was up alongside the two-time World Champion, and he was seen as the guy to win the World Championship and I think at the time I misinterpreted and misunderstood the goals and the understanding of how the team worked," Hamilton told the BBC. "But, since I've been here, they do everything to give us individually the best package possible. I've never had more than the guy next to me, we've always had equal opportunity, which is the greatest thing in a team. It's not easy to manage that, because one guy can be ahead of the other. "Inevitably people say things sometimes when they haven't done so well. You say things out of anger; you say things that you potentially don't mean. That's how I see it from the others."



#6742 ArtShelley

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 13:23

come on guys.....give it a rest...we are in 2011 and yet its back to the future/past to 2007............


Oh but it is related to 2011. The topic originally started on speculation whether Alonso would handle it better if (however unlikely it seems) Massa does start beating him in some races this season. The 2011 season. Relevant to this discussion is how he handled it in 2007 and whether he has learnt from that (I think he has) but possible that though he has learnt from it when reflecting back when calm and rational, it could be different in the heat of the moment when the red mist descends. As we see from the multiple times of fist waving during this season culminating in fist waving at Petrov. He seems to be a guy who wears his emotions on his sleeve when things don't go his way, so we are speculating that, considering all his strengths, will it affect his performance IF he does face pressure from within the team by way of a quick(er) Massa? Some want to remain in denial that it's not an issue of discussion because Nando doesn't have a problem being beaten by team mates (or that he was never beaten in the first place in 2007) and that's where the topic continues to revolve. It's still about Alonso so it still remains within topic of this thread.

#6743 Smile17

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 13:52

Stop it please! The fact that Hamilton groupies keep falling back to 2007 says enough about them and their quest for a valid argument to show that their wonderboy is, excuse me, was doing wonders (in 2007). If they were smart they would come up with a better example, cuz 07 is everything but something to be proud of. The irony is that it still was Hamilton's best season...

#6744 tifosiMac

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 13:55

Stop it please! The fact that Hamilton groupies keep falling back to 2007 says enough about them and their quest for a valid argument to show that their wonderboy is, excuse me, was doing wonders (in 2007). If they were smart they would come up with a better example, cuz 07 is everything but something to be proud of. The irony is that it still was Hamilton's best season...


2007 was an amazing season for Hamilton and its no wonder his fans are proud of what he achieved in his rookie season, but theres a thread for that and this one is about Alonso.

#6745 Flojoe

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 13:59

Oh but it is related to 2011. The topic originally started on speculation whether Alonso would handle it better if (however unlikely it seems) Massa does start beating him in some races this season. The 2011 season. Relevant to this discussion is how he handled it in 2007 and whether he has learnt from that (I think he has) but possible that though he has learnt from it when reflecting back when calm and rational, it could be different in the heat of the moment when the red mist descends. As we see from the multiple times of fist waving during this season culminating in fist waving at Petrov. He seems to be a guy who wears his emotions on his sleeve when things don't go his way, so we are speculating that, considering all his strengths, will it affect his performance IF he does face pressure from within the team by way of a quick(er) Massa? Some want to remain in denial that it's not an issue of discussion because Nando doesn't have a problem being beaten by team mates (or that he was never beaten in the first place in 2007) and that's where the topic continues to revolve. It's still about Alonso so it still remains within topic of this thread.


I totally understand what you are saying......and I have my reservations about Alonso's attitude as well but in the interest of peace and indulging certain rousers I was just hoping we could focus on Alonso without reference to Hammy. This usually fuels the fire and before you know it the whole forum spirals out of control . Or maybe am just to docile and don't like a good scrap!!!

Edited by Flojoe, 01 February 2011 - 14:03.


#6746 Flojoe

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 14:02

Stop it please! The fact that Hamilton groupies keep falling back to 2007 says enough about them and their quest for a valid argument to show that their wonderboy is, excuse me, was doing wonders (in 2007). If they were smart they would come up with a better example, cuz 07 is everything but something to be proud of. The irony is that it still was Hamilton's best season...


ehrrr....what about 2008......is that another good example.......he actually won the title that season.......

#6747 fabr68

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 14:03

If Hamilton beat Alonso in 2007, then you can say Alonso crushed Hamilton in 2010. Hamilton blew his championship in 2010 at Monza and Singapore with the #2 WCC car. Alonso finished two places in front of him with a #3 WCC car. No wonder why Hamilton fans keep living in 2007.

#6748 showtime

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 14:05

ehrrr....what about 2008......is that another good example.......he actually won the title that season.......


Not Hamilton`s thread.



#6749 tifosiMac

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 14:08

If Hamilton beat Alonso in 2007, then you can say Alonso crushed Hamilton in 2010. Hamilton blew his championship in 2010 at Monza and Singapore with the #2 WCC car. Alonso finished two places in front of him with a #3 WCC car. No wonder why Hamilton fans keep living in 2007.

Both were losers in 2010, as they were in 2007, and both had a #2 WCC at some point during the 2010 season. Neither the Ferrari or the McLaren were consistently better than the other over a period of time so I feel you have made a false claim there. Its sad that these are the two best drivers on the grid and fans seem obsessed with trying to understand why one beat the other during one season and vice versa. Move on ffs.

#6750 fabr68

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 14:10

Both were losers in 2010, as they were in 2007, and both had a #2 WCC at some point during the 2010 season. Neither the Ferrari or the McLaren were consistently better than the other over a period of time so I feel you have made a false claim there. Its sad that these are the two best drivers on the grid and fans seem obsessed with trying to understand why one beat the other during one season and vice versa. Move on ffs.


Just stating the facts for those who like to cling to one side of the coin that serves their agenda.