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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#651 velgajski1

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 04:40

that is exactly what happened.
i believe it was Ron's intention for his "experiment" to drive the best car and learn from the best driver in the series starting from his very first year in F1.
but the plan soon changed. commercial interest alone was enough for it to happen that way. its understandable.
having a spaniard put an end to the Kaiser domination was not news to sells those newspapers.
then Lewis surprised everybody giving hope to british fans, and the terribly untruthful and cruel press shaped that hope at will.
while spanish press was also being biased, the level of manipulation cannot be compared.
equality in McLaren 2007? i laugh not to cry

it would also be interesting to compare those 2 and the relative performance of the cars they had, treatment from the press, from the FiA and race director, etc...

please some fanboy come here try and sell me Lewis and his noble moral values or something.
you needed that hero, you have it.
but don't sell it to us! its an experiment


Damn, that's one hell of a unobjective post! Stop :smoking:

Alonso lost by half a point to one of greatest F1 talents ever - its not such a big shame and you don't need to rewrite history. But this is what happens when you overglorify a driver and then get a good dose of reality. Alonso is great driver, but not unbeatable demigod - he can lose in a fair way against his teammate, and thats exactly what happened in 2007.

Cut all the press BS aside. Who had more team cockups and car failures in 2007? That is only relevant question.

AFAIK - it was Hamilton, and even if it were Alonso it wouldn't mean anything unless you have one guy with perfect car, and other guy with car breaking every second race (HINT: Ferrari in Rubens/Schumacher era).

Alonso complained about not being given nr1 status. He himself said he doesn't believe in driver equality and I can understand that, but he needed to know that McLaren will try to replicate equality as much as possible if Hamilton is any good. And he was way better than anyone expected. In short, Alonso underestimated Hamilton and expected clear nr1 status that he had in Renault, but insted got a fierce and dirty (Hungary 2007) rival instead of tame kid that will be happy to be his second fiddle.

Btw, if you really think McLaren is such an evil Lewis Hamilton empire - why the hell is Button happy with it? Why doesn't Kovalainen (who DID play second fiddle in second part of 2008. and throughout 2009. to Lewis) say anything bad about McLaren?

Edited by velgajski1, 18 June 2010 - 04:51.


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#652 buzatlas

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 07:41

Alonso lost by half a point to one of greatest F1 talents ever - its not such a big shame and you don't need to rewrite history.


The major point is that Mclaren lost the WDC. That's the important factor and that's what should count for Mclaren - I don't believe that their aim was just to put Hamilton ahead of Alonso just for fun.

That year proved that putting Alonso as a support role for Hamilton was a disaster for them in 2007 - they launched their champion that won in 08 but they were a total disapoint to Alonso's expectations from Mclaren.
But obviously you think that they were competing in equality mode and the one's that say the opposite are rewriting the general feeling of Hamilton's supporters.

Fortunately for him, Alonso isn't the kind of guy who accepts being number 2 and it was a classic seeing him fighting all mighty Mclaren - a pleasure to see.

#653 demoing

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 07:51

Button will be less happy at the end of the season and after all we are much closer to a repeat of 2007 in Mclaren (just look at the unhappiness of Hamilton after Turkey) than at Ferrari as a lot of people predicted.
And about Kovalainen: read what he had to say about Mclaren equality (but I don't think he can say much more has he was always de facto #2)

thats only because Massa is no longer a racing driver but a highly paid will never be a winner driver now.
He took the money instead of the WDC

#654 YellowHelmet

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 07:53

what excuse do you have for Alonso's after all he is the agreed better driver normally.

there are no excuses: from now on, with the Valencia upgrade Alonso is gonna shine again!

#655 demoing

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 07:54

there are no excuses: from now on, with the Valencia upgrade Alonso is gonna shine again!

QFF

#656 YellowHelmet

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 08:02

QFF

I dont know what qff means, but talking about f1 material-independent makes no sense!
just remember monaco 2010, Lewis normally a great driver in monaco hadnt any chance to win, due to his car!
But Mclaren have won 4 races and the redbull 3 races and still Alonso is up their with a race win and challenging the drivers in the until now better cars!

#657 velgajski1

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 09:48

Button will be less happy at the end of the season and after all we are much closer to a repeat of 2007 in Mclaren (just look at the unhappiness of Hamilton after Turkey) than at Ferrari as a lot of people predicted.
And about Kovalainen: read what he had to say about Mclaren equality (but I don't think he can say much more has he was always de facto #2)


Kovalainen was nr.2 at second part of 2008. and in 2009. like I wrote. But that happened only after it was clear his performances were not near what was expected of him.

But main point is - Alonso never complained he was given worse professional treatment (by his engineers) or equipment than Lewis. He only complained about not being shown enough respect as 2xWDC by team bosses. One of ways to do that would be to make Lewis nr.2 driver. If I recall correctly, in one interview where he said he doesn't believe in equality he even mentions that McLaren is trying to 'replicate equality but its not always working'.

And I can see Alonso reasoning there. He said he brought McLaren 0.6s performance. I believe him. Thing about 0.6s is that press turned him to some engineering master, and now is putting him down as such because he didn't 'develop the car in 2008/2009'. But what probably happened is that Alonso brought some of Renault data to McLaren which gave 0.6s performance to the car. Hamilton brought nothing. Alonso felt that he should be given preferential treatment as 2xWDC and someone bringing his experience and probably some Renault data to the team. He didn't get that. And its a valid logic if you think a bit about it, its just that not everyone and every team has to agree with it. McLaren obviously doesn't work like that, and this is where problems began.

While Alonso was always McLaren fan, I think he looks much better in Ferrari. Also, he looks cooler and more at peace now than ever before (despite some errors this year). Alonso / Ferrari combo will be dangerous in years to come.

Edited by velgajski1, 18 June 2010 - 10:14.


#658 One

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 10:07

I do think that At Ferrari one get more public pressure PLUS BERNIE's strong expectation. That is way more than being a strong contention and a hope for tomorrow (Button). Monaco was a pity as Alonso could have won. Sadly the accident was so unfortunate, hit a worse sport to damage chassis.
As Button says championship is wide open and this is a col year. I in no way underestimate how Alonso fights back.

#659 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 10:19

what should be obvious on that?
that a round or some rounds before, where he was off the track he damaged something on his car!


Make up your mind, did he damage the car or did he push the button. Or did magical fairies fall on his car and hit the brake pedal for 20 seconds?


laughable claim yours is, specially when this stats show it http://f1-facts.com/...m-mates/FAlonso. quicker by a big margin, monaco, silverstone, germany, indi

What did that link show? It only proved what I said about the fastest laps. So I ask again, where did you come up with that 11:5 number

In anycase, you said he was quicker by a big margin in most races, but now you gave 4 examples only and to my knowledge most means more than half. There were more than 8 races in 2007. I wont even comment on how stupid it is to say alonso was quicker by a big margin in a race where Hamilton beat him in a straight fight (indy) and Germany is questionable. Monaco - untrue. The pace difference there was little.

yet fernado is ahead, just a system in which number of 2nd positions clarifies who is to be in front. http://f1-facts.com/...m-mates/FAlonso

What was that 11:5 thing you claimed? Were you trying to lie and hoping to get away with it?
By the way, you want stats? Look at how Alonso was dominated in qualifying by Hamilton.

ridiculous was mclaren and his way to manage hungary, I remind you without such sanction alonso would be world champion again, plus tell one single race where fernando was outqualified with less fuel.

Gladly. Indy, Hungary, Turkey, Japan. There might be others.

McLaren managed Hungary just fine, it was alonso who behaved like a jerk. He would have been the champ had he not crashed at Japan or if he had driven better at many races.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: sorry man, couldnt resist you even sound funny. I'll never forget what alonso was told by a mclaren engineer in turkey "fernando, you don't know how easy it is to make a car less competitive" strange breaches on chasis, tyre pressures, limited engines, malfunctioning gearboxes...

I am sure Fisi, Trulli and Piquet know all about that from their Renault days.


you see? it's not difficult to see it was done on purpose, obvious when you desperately need a british champion after decades of thirst. the ones who had no shame were those managing mclaren

Your proof of that is...?

never was treated by mclaren like he deserved, never got a seat after years of dedication to the team, even was humilliated by neglecting him against kova.

He didnt get the seat because he wasnt fast enough. Why should the team prefer him to a much faster driver, even if he has dedicated many years to McLaren. It is not like he wasnt getting paid. Besides, he had many races for McLaren in 2006 and was destroyed by Kimi in most of them. His only use would have been a nr.2 to Alonso, which is what that insecure guy needs, he cannot handle a fast teammate, he goes lunatic at once (as said by Pat Symonds too)



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#660 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 10:19


215 McLaren-Mercede
193 RBR-Renault
161 Ferrari

109 Lewis Hamilton
106 Jenson Button
103 Mark Webber
094 Fernando Alonso
090 Sebastian Vettel
067 Felipe Massa

Constructor standings represent the power of the car overall. Now if you lower RBR and McLaren points to Ferrari's and you substract the WDC points to the drivers too, it would look like this:

161 McLaren-Mercedes (215-161=54 - 54/2=27 - 27 is what you substract to the drivers)
161 RBR-Renault (193-161=32 - 32/2=16 - 16 is what you substract to the drivers)
161 Ferrari

These would be the actual standings if the cars were about the same:

94 Fernando Alonso
87 Mark Webber (103-16)
82 Lewis Hamilton (109-27)
79 Jenson Button (106-27)
74 Sebastian Vettel (90-16)
67 Felipe Massa

This doesn't prove a shit, but it gives you a overview of who's the boss.


Why did I start thinking of stinking horse manure when I read your post?


ferrari fighting with renaults and mercedes and it's all of a sudden the best car out there without any big upgrade but drivers don't deliver :rotfl: :rotfl: what a truth!!!


Ferrari was the best car at Canada, only mistakes from Alonso (AGAIN) gave the victory to McLarens. At Turkey Alonsos performance was a comedy. In fact, he has many so many mistakes this year that it is getting a bit pathetic. The funniest was of course when you claimed he didnt make a mistake at Monaco, despite FACTS saying otherwise.


back to 2007 season, I've found something I'd like to share, quite remarkable indeed IMHO

John L Sharp's view of Fernando vs Lewis

MONACO: where this muddle started. Team orders were issued (to slow down) to preserve the engine for the next race (when Alonso, after 2nd pit stop had a +10sec advantage on Hamilton and close to 1 min on Massa). Alonso limited his car rpm down to 17000 rpm. Hamilton "failed" to listen and his complaint initiated an FIA investigation. No foul play. Alonso faster than Hamilton!

INDIANAPOLIS: No orders were given to reduce rpms. Alonso was undoubtedly faster than Hamilton. Alonso tried just once to overtake Hamilton. Failed, but his reaction in the following lap suggested that maybe, just maybe, he was stopped from trying again by team orders. At least this would have been the consensus amongst English press should that have happened the other way round!! Alonso did not "request" the FIA to investigate what to everyone's eyes was more suspicious than what had "happened" in MONACO. Yes, Hamilton won the US GP (but Alonso outpaced Hamilton there!)And this includes all way throughout Q1, Q2 and Q3, until the very last extra flying lap (as also occurred previously in Canada).And we know that this season, apart from when there is a mechanical failure or significant human error, P1 is equivalent to victory (that's why enjoying that extra flying lap in Q3 is soooo important - with less fuel)

MAGNY-COURS: mechanical problems for Alonso with the gear change system and suspension hydraulics or electronics. I can't remember now. No foul play. Probably bad luck?. Hamilton faster than Alonso!

SILVERSTONE: pole for Hamilton (this was clearly planned to satisfy British supporters). We know what happened after. Alonso faster than Hamilton!

NURBURGRING: Hamilton's incident. Alonso had the same problem with his car. Only he was luckier. I could not compare performances as Hamilton may have been physically in a poorer condition. But I have to give Alonso the benefit of the doubt in this one. Alonso faster than Hamilton!

HUNGARORING: the second incident. Naughty boys (both Hamilton and Alonso)! Alonso actually was faster when he did his best lap (faster than Hamilton with same fuel loads). Of course, Hamilton intentions were to steal Alonso's extra lap knowing than P1= Victory in here. He wanted to enjoy that extra flying lap (and with less fuel load) so it was likely he could have improved Alonso's lap. But on equal levels of fuel Alonso was faster. And do not forget, it was Alonso’s turn to enjoy the extra flying lap (Hamilton prevented him from doing so). FIA sanction absolutely inappropriate. Hamilton should now have 2 points less and Alonso 5 more (as surely Alonso would have won that race and Hamilton would have finished 2nd or third). Unfortunately for Alonso, the "judges" were a British, a German and a Chinese (it is like having an English referee in the World Cup Final between England and Spain - biased decision!). Curiously same British guy that investigated the Japanese SC mess.

TURKEY: relatively bad luck for Hamilton. Maybe he was pushing too hard and not looking after his tyres properly. Relatively because luckily for him, the tyre burst two or three corners before pit entry so he was able to finish 5th. However, Hamilton was faster!

MONZA: Alonso faster. As simple as that!

SPA: Alonso faster. As simple as that! Poisonous strategy (Hamilton 5 extra laps 2nd stint). Not investigated by FIA. Hamilton's lack of speed prevented him from overtaking Alonso. Naughty Ron .

JAPAN: Alonso's accident. Difficult weather conditions! Erratic driving behind SC. FIA does not sanction Hamilton. Abnormal real tyre pressures after 1st pit stop. Overinflation. However, let's say that Hamilton was faster than Alonso, and luckier!

CHINA: Alonso faster than Hamilton, except Q3 by 0.6 sec! Tyre pressures used in Q3 appear to be overheated causing increase of pressure, measured at 1.5 psi - normally 0.2 psi. Max Mosley and FIA are aware of this and highly suspicious. Foul play, however, would be difficult to prove. Hamilton faster in Q3, but is that real or due to some sort of manipulation? The race as expected. From P1 usually you will maintain the momentum (independently of who you are). Poor tyre treatment: Hamilton was clearly abusing intermediate tyres, driving over dried tarmac, overheating and gradually destroying them. Yes, you get more speed that way but the life span greatly diminishes. And he paid for it. Bad luck, though.

FINALLY: There have been circuits were Alonso has been clearly faster during free practice, Q1, Q2 and most of Q3 until the very last lap, when Hamilton with the extra flying lap (less fuel, do not forget) has secured P1 –. The Team, since Canada, has been clearly helping strategically Hamilton's interests and Alonso is not stupid and realises that. One now wonders whether a “magic” hand has been playing little tricks on Alonso. Nothing surprises me these days.

CONCLUSION: Maybe everybody was expecting Alonso to run easily away with the title. However, once the Team realised that Hamilton was very good, strategy changed to silently benefit/favour the McLaren breed driver. Proof for this is that the number of extra flying laps that Hamilton has enjoyed is 7 against 2 of Alonso (at the beginning of the season). And after Brazil it surely will be 8 against 2. And we know that overtaking is not easy these days (so there are huge team interests on securing P1, and surely this is the aim of McLaren for Hamilton in Brazil). This can be achieved by giving Hamilton once more the extra flying lap and if he struggles, maybe overcooking certain drivers rubber.

Equality is a nice word, but from now on it sounds to me like pathological thinking coming from Ron's mouth.

I just can’t imagine how difficult it has been for Alonso to keep focused (and I could extend on the psychological war launched by McLaren against Alonso after Monza, including Hamilton's comments (always under the protection of Ron).


Who the hell is John Sharp (or maybe not that sharp). A recovering alcoholic? Didnt graduate from 5th grade? Those seem likely options.


alonso said it, he confirmed it alive after the qualy, on youtube you'll find all his comments, in spanish though

Alonso has claimed many things, most of them seem BS. The guy is not a very honest person.


and ron couldn't fix anything and raise suspicion as the spanish automobile fed kept an eye on them since hungary when alonso claimed engineers bullied on him even hinting at his life integrity

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

That is just too much. Alonso is just such a funny guy, I have never seen such paranoia and crazyness from one driver. Not even from Mansell.

#661 velgajski1

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 10:33

That is just too much. Alonso is just such a funny guy, I have never seen such paranoia and crazyness from one driver. Not even from Mansell.


Well, I think he managed to solve his paranoia, but it definitely was a problem until after 2007. Pat Symonds talked about it also I think, we also know Alonso didn't feel to good at Renault at the end of 2006., and it all just continued in 2007. But he looks like a cool guy now :up:


#662 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 11:00

in your blindfolded eyes might not be the case, as he's been far away of fighting for championships, for those of us who follow him he's been stronger than ever, destroying literally piquet, grosjean and now massa, the only drivers whom one can be compared really.

Destroying Piquet and Grosjean.. Yes. That is quite the acheivement... Especially with a clear number one status.
As for Massa, he is not the same after he nearly died. Not at all. So I dont know. Other teammates are Trulli and Hamilton who both beat him. At least until Trulli was mysteriously replaced by Renault with Fisichella or he quit from McLaren.

#663 Gertie

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 11:12

Alonso made a terrible mistake leaving McLaren...
He should have stayed there and helped Hamilton win more titles....he would have been a great nr2....

#664 Massacrator

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 11:16

Why did I start thinking of stinking horse manure when I read your post?

It is actually a good indicator. Let's add Renault:

161 Ferrari
079 Renault (161-79=82 - 82/2 = 41)

073 Robert Kubica
006 Vitaly Petrov

-----------------------------------

114 Robert Kubica (73 + 41)
94 Fernando Alonso
87 Mark Webber (103-16)
82 Lewis Hamilton (109-27)
79 Jenson Button (106-27)
74 Sebastian Vettel (90-16)
67 Felipe Massa
47 Vitaly Petrov (6+41)


#665 otoelpiloto

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 11:18

Damn, that's one hell of a unobjective post! Stop :smoking:

Alonso lost by half a point to one of greatest F1 talents ever - its not such a big shame and you don't need to rewrite history. But this is what happens when you overglorify a driver and then get a good dose of reality. Alonso is great driver, but not unbeatable demigod - he can lose in a fair way against his teammate, and thats exactly what happened in 2007.

Cut all the press BS aside. Who had more team cockups and car failures in 2007? That is only relevant question.

AFAIK - it was Hamilton, and even if it were Alonso it wouldn't mean anything unless you have one guy with perfect car, and other guy with car breaking every second race (HINT: Ferrari in Rubens/Schumacher era).

Alonso complained about not being given nr1 status. He himself said he doesn't believe in driver equality and I can understand that, but he needed to know that McLaren will try to replicate equality as much as possible if Hamilton is any good. And he was way better than anyone expected. In short, Alonso underestimated Hamilton and expected clear nr1 status that he had in Renault, but insted got a fierce and dirty (Hungary 2007) rival instead of tame kid that will be happy to be his second fiddle.

Btw, if you really think McLaren is such an evil Lewis Hamilton empire - why the hell is Button happy with it? Why doesn't Kovalainen (who DID play second fiddle in second part of 2008. and throughout 2009. to Lewis) say anything bad about McLaren?


alonso didn't lose by half a point with anybody, wrong.

he didn't lose fair and square against his teammate, the drew and it wasn't neither fair nor square, dennis "we are racing fernando, not kimi"...wrong again

hamilton had more cockups, specially when the pressure was on his shoulders, alonso had much more mechanical issues, specially hidden mechanical issues such the 5mm breach in his car in bahrein or the malfunctioning gearbox in france.

alonso never ever complained of n1 status, he'd just asked for equal treatment, wrong once again.

and button is happy because he isn't a champion at all, he's a loser rather happy of being 2nd, he knew 2009 wdc was gifted and had to prove himself to be more competitive and add some podiums to his stats, and as he's happy as n2 no fireworks will blow out, as soon as he treated to beat lewis...well, you've the answer in turkey, it looked like a funeral. and kovalainen is simply a wimp and tried to hold up his seat as much as he could


#666 Flamini

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 11:19

As for Massa, he is not the same after he nearly died.


Because you know this.


I tell you something: start reading. Doctors, medical experts, Ferrari team, Massa himself - everybody have different opinion than you about accident effects. So give me some evidence that Massa is not the same driver. Medical evidence.

Edited by Flamini, 18 June 2010 - 11:19.


#667 zeph

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 11:21

Well, I think he managed to solve his paranoia, but it definitely was a problem until after 2007. Pat Symonds talked about it also I think, we also know Alonso didn't feel to good at Renault at the end of 2006., and it all just continued in 2007. But he looks like a cool guy now :up:


Yes, he looks like a chastened but wiser man. I think that the 2007 disaster eroded his confidence quite a bit. Before that he was the cocky young bullfighter who ended the reign of the Kaiser. That is always a good place to be. Life is easier when you are the new guy who takes the fight to the champ. Reaching the top is one thing, staying there a totally different cookie.
Every driver must sooner or later face his nemesis, and in Alonso's case that was Hamilton. One day it will be Hamilton's turn to have a younger and faster teammate. It's the way of the world.

When I look at Alonso's face, I do not see someone who just enjoys being a racing driver. I see a man under severe pressure and self-doubt, and I think that's why he is making these mistakes. I hope that he will recover his mental equilibrium, and am confident that when he does he will be faster than ever.

I don't know that Alonso is the greatest. I don't know that Hamilton is the greatest. Statistically they are both still a few years away from any claims to greatness. I think that with all things being equal, it's just comes down to how they are feeling on that particular day.

Edited by zeph, 18 June 2010 - 11:22.


#668 Fatgadget

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 11:27

Felippe baby just doesn't look as full of beans as he did in 08 and 09. And what significant changes since then?..Read into that what you will.

#669 otoelpiloto

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 11:28

thats only because Massa is no longer a racing driver but a highly paid will never be a winner driver now.
He took the money instead of the WDC


is no longer a racing driver? who says so? you? what's your experience in the paddock? :rotfl: if kimi were driving that ferrari we'd be talking on how shitty that ferrari is and how massa is outpacing the iceman again

#670 otoelpiloto

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 11:36

Destroying Piquet and Grosjean.. Yes. That is quite the acheivement... Especially with a clear number one status.
As for Massa, he is not the same after he nearly died. Not at all. So I dont know. Other teammates are Trulli and Hamilton who both beat him. At least until Trulli was mysteriously replaced by Renault with Fisichella or he quit from McLaren.


piquet was second in gp2 nearly beating hamilton, if this ham vs alonso situation had happened in renault, fernando would have finished like 30 or 40 points ahead of hamilton, trulli never beat fernando and hamilton just drew with him with a preferential treatment and n1 status http://f1-facts.com/...m-mates/FAlonso

#671 Gertie

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 11:38

his name is alonso, or fernando, not teflonso.
And we don't see mistakes from button as you don't see button ahead of hamilton, he's happy cruising as n2
The excuse why fernando is better is this http://f1-facts.com/...m-mates/FAlonso even against the whole great britain the spaniard beat hamilton, button alongside hamilton is a mere n2 driver happy with his n2 role, that's why you don't see any mistakes from him


in your wet dreams where Alonso win the GPs lapping everyone even himself :rotfl:
I see even Alonso fans are rattled by Hamilton more than Alonso himself..........their biggest nightmare is Hamilton i see........

1 Kimi Räikkönen 1 3 3 Ret 8 5 4 1 1 Ret 2 2 3 1 3 1 1 110
2 Lewis Hamilton 3 2 2 2 2 1 1 3 3 9 1 5 2 4 1 Ret 7 109
3 Fernando Alonso2 1 5 3 1 7 2 7 2 1 4 3 1 3 Ret 2 3 109

#672 otoelpiloto

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 11:41

Every driver must sooner or later face his nemesis, and in Alonso's case that was Hamilton.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: hilarious, i'd pay millions to lineup again fernando and hamilton outside of mclaren, we'd see whose fernando's nemesis :rotfl:

#673 otoelpiloto

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 11:42

When I look at Alonso's face, I do not see someone who just enjoys being a racing driver. I see a man under severe pressure and self-doubt, and I think that's why he is making these mistakes. I hope that he will recover his mental equilibrium, and am confident that when he does he will be faster than ever.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: ohh my god, you're the funniest guy I've ever read, man, you made my day, work will be much easier later thanks to your vision :stoned:

#674 MichaelPM

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 11:44

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: hilarious, i'd pay millions to lineup again fernando and hamilton outside of mclaren, we'd see whose fernando's nemesis :rotfl:

I'd chip in to see that as well! :clap:

#675 otoelpiloto

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 11:44

Felippe baby just doesn't look as full of beans as he did in 08 and 09. And what significant changes since then?..Read into that what you will.


the significant chance is a narrower front tyre which he's struggling with plus fernando alonso...other than that...it's all your imagination :kiss:

#676 zeph

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 11:47

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: hilarious, i'd pay millions to lineup again fernando and hamilton outside of mclaren, we'd see whose fernando's nemesis :rotfl:


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: ohh my god, you're the funniest guy I've ever read, man, you made my day, work will be much easier later thanks to your vision :stoned:


Always happy to make someone else smile! :wave:

FWIW, I'm actually an Alonso supporter. Not sure if you got that.

Edited by zeph, 18 June 2010 - 11:48.


#677 otoelpiloto

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 11:48

in your wet dreams where Alonso win the GPs lapping everyone even himself :rotfl:
I see even Alonso fans are rattled by Hamilton more than Alonso himself..........their biggest nightmare is Hamilton i see........

1 Kimi Räikkönen 1 3 3 Ret 8 5 4 1 1 Ret 2 2 3 1 3 1 1 110
2 Lewis Hamilton 3 2 2 2 2 1 1 3 3 9 1 5 2 4 1 Ret 7 109
3 Fernando Alonso2 1 5 3 1 7 2 7 2 1 4 3 1 3 Ret 2 3 109


and yet stats put fernando ahead, hamilton was second just because of FIA rules,http://f1-facts.com/statistics/team-mates/FAlonso. and don't forget the completely unfair and biased sanction in Hungary, no surprised though, bernie was desperate to get a british champion too, afterall, this sport is from britain and its owners are british.

For us, alonso's fans, our biggest nightmare was dennis and mclaren in general, that's why every single time they race or test around the get a significant whistle :drunk:

#678 otoelpiloto

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 11:51

Always happy to make someone else smile! :wave:

FWIW, I'm actually an Alonso supporter. Not sure if you got that.


I know, I know, but you sounded really funny :drunk: :up:

#679 zeph

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 11:55

I know, I know, but you sounded really funny :drunk: :up:


Good, glad to alleviate your office misery there for a sec.

FWIW, I am sure Hamilton can take the fight to Alonso. And who wins will just depend on who's feeling better that day. I don't think that anybody can seriously maintain that Alonso is superior on the track. Hamilton has proven himself succinctly.

Off track and in car development is a different matter, I can not really judge that.




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#680 undersquare

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 11:58

hilarious, i'd pay millions to lineup again fernando and hamilton outside of mclaren, we'd see whose fernando's nemesis :rotfl:


Me too :up:

#681 Gertie

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 11:59

and yet stats put fernando ahead, hamilton was second just because of FIA rules,http://f1-facts.com/statistics/team-mates/FAlonso. and don't forget the completely unfair and biased sanction in Hungary, no surprised though, bernie was desperate to get a british champion too, afterall, this sport is from britain and its owners are british.

For us, alonso's fans, our biggest nightmare was dennis and mclaren in general, that's why every single time they race or test around the get a significant whistle :drunk:


as i suspected ....nightmare when Hamiton get mentioned...excuses left and right...

Hamilton 2nd
Alonso 3rd

beaten fair and square by a rookie .......get over it.
Alonso is afantastic driver but Hamilton is in another level....that's life...one can be better than you


#682 Gareth

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 12:01

Thread closed for a lot of cleanup.

Whilst that's going on, a couple of things to make clear:

1. This is a thread about Fernando Alonso.

2. This is not (contrary to some suggestions in the thread) a support thread - there are no support threads on this bulletin board.

3. The thread is not about "fans of Fernando Alonso" (or fans of anybody else).

4. Please do not make personal attacks, they are against house rules.

5. Please do not troll, again it's against house rules.

Thanks for your attention. The thread will re-open later once cleaned up.

Gareth

#683 Buttoneer

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 22:21

OK, I'm re-opening this thread.

Please bear in mind Gareth's notes above, and the house rules when posting to this topic.

The thread is not for members to discuss how much they dislike each other, the Spanish press, the British press, Ron Dennis, Lewis Hamilton or Nelson Piquet. It was intentionally opened with a broad remit to discuss Fernando Alonso. That means some of the issues I just mentioned will inevitably arise but they must not become the main event. If they do, and if posters ignore this or Gareth's warning, members will have their posting rights suspended or withdrawn.

Do not reply to this post or Gareth's post. If you have anything to say about how this thread or this forum is moderated then you do it via PM, as per the house rules. Also, you can post a comment in the 'driver and team threads' feedback topic but please be aware of the guidance for that thread in mel's opening post.

#684 kissTheApex

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 23:14

May I just say "Thank you"... Your efforts are definitely appreciated by this poster.

#685 Massacrator

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 00:09

I don't think Fernando lacks self-confidence on track, I think he has low personal self-esteem, he is shy and introverted, but that's all.

#686 rhukkas

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 00:11

I don't think Fernando lacks self-confidence on track, I think he has low personal self-esteem, he is shy and introverted, but that's all.


2007 still haunts him, and he's never really recovered. I know a lot of critics keep saying he's the 'most complete' driver in F1 but Kubica is doing as good, if not better, job at Renault than Alonso did over the last 2 years.



#687 Massacrator

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 00:23

2007 still haunts him, and he's never really recovered. I know a lot of critics keep saying he's the 'most complete' driver in F1 but Kubica is doing as good, if not better, job at Renault than Alonso did over the last 2 years.

Fernando said long time ago that Kubica was the best driver on grid, so I don't see how that can make his self-confidence go down.

#688 aditya-now

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 00:25

Fernando said long time ago that Kubica was the best driver on grid, so I don't see how that can make his self-confidence go down.


Yep, and they are friends. I don´t know what all these insinuations about Fernando should amount to....
After all you guys are speaking about the 2010 WDC.


#689 zeph

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 01:25

2007 still haunts him, and he's never really recovered.


That is my impression as well. If you compare photos taken before and after 2007, the difference is apparent.

But I will forever be grateful that he ended the Schumacher-era! I mean, is there anyone who disagrees that F1 has gotten a lot more interesting since?

Edited by zeph, 20 June 2010 - 01:32.


#690 otoelpiloto

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 04:43

2007 still haunts him, and he's never really recovered. I know a lot of critics keep saying he's the 'most complete' driver in F1 but Kubica is doing as good, if not better, job at Renault than Alonso did over the last 2 years.


is kubica doing as good or better than alonso in 2005 and 2006? you're comparing different cars and different seasons. It goes nowhere

thanks for reopening it, much appreciated

Edited by otoelpiloto, 20 June 2010 - 04:44.


#691 otoelpiloto

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 04:51

That is my impression as well. If you compare photos taken before and after 2007, the difference is apparent.

But I will forever be grateful that he ended the Schumacher-era! I mean, is there anyone who disagrees that F1 has gotten a lot more interesting since?


guys, god look after your vision!!! :clap:

fernando 2004 Posted Image

fernando 2008 Posted Image

#692 velgajski1

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 06:25

The major point is that Mclaren lost the WDC. That's the important factor and that's what should count for Mclaren - I don't believe that their aim was just to put Hamilton ahead of Alonso just for fun.

That year proved that putting Alonso as a support role for Hamilton was a disaster for them in 2007 - they launched their champion that won in 08 but they were a total disapoint to Alonso's expectations from Mclaren.
But obviously you think that they were competing in equality mode and the one's that say the opposite are rewriting the general feeling of Hamilton's supporters.

Fortunately for him, Alonso isn't the kind of guy who accepts being number 2 and it was a classic seeing him fighting all mighty Mclaren - a pleasure to see.


I'm a McLaren supporter before all else and I for one don't see reasons why Alonso wouldn't be put in Montoya 2006. treatment if McLaren wanted to somehow sabotage him. Ron Dennis could have replaced him with Pedro who would surely play good support role, especially at the point where WCC was out of sight with spygate anyway, but main point is - Ron Dennis wanted showdown and I'm 100% sure he tried to have equality there. This is just one of the inconsistencies with 'McLaren made Alonso nr.2 driver'.

Objectively, McLaren screwed Hamilton more times that season than they screwed Alonso, but that's purely down to luck - I'd never claim they tried to sabotage Hamilton. This is second inconsistency with the story.

Only proofs of that story are Alonso's general feelings (lets remember his general feelings in 2006. when he nearly accused Renault of sabotage) and Ron's 'we were basically racing Fernando'. And yet, at the same race - they did better job with Fernando than with Lewis.

In short, I remember Ron interview around Canada race. He said 'we want to turn this season into Alonso vs. Hamilton fight until end of season'. And this is what happened. In the end both drivers failed McLaren by being unfair towards eachother and towards the team. Also, they failed because at the end of the day - no one pushed Alonso out of Japan race, or Hamilton out of China race. Kimi won that season in an inferior equipment, but as McLaren fan I don't feel sorry for that at all, it was a great season.

But of course, one may have different view of that season.

P.S. - That's exactly why I'm a McLaren fan, every now and then they give us great inter team battle with car capable of winning WDC - you won't see that often in other teams.


Edited by velgajski1, 20 June 2010 - 06:37.


#693 buzatlas

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 10:00

There's no such thing as equal cars or conditions.
Cars have different setups and teams have different development directions and different strategies that can favor one driver or another.

And there's also no such thing as teams having a number 1 established by contract. Teams might have a strategy of a number one driver supporting in first place one driver but if that driver doesn't deliver they will change that balance to the other driver.

Of course there's a lot of situations where this was taken in extremes. In Austria 2002 what was shocking was not that Rubens let Schumacher win but how that was done with a car that was dominating and still they persist on the number 1/2 policy. No doubt that when a car is dominant the only sensible thing to hope is to see a team to assist both drivers in the best manner possible.

Seems to me that best team to this is Williams. And they lost some championships because of this policy - 81, Jones/Reutemann; 86 Mansell/Piquet and 2003 with Montoya/Ralf. But that also deliver very good championships as 87 Mansell/Piquet again (and that cost them in the end both Piquet and Honda engines to Warr's Lotus).

Also Ferrari didn't really always have the Schumacher #1 policy from the beginning of the year. In 77 Reutemann started very well but faded as the season progress due to Lauda's very good policy manipulation that resulted in wining the WDC and leave the team for 78. In 79 despite Scheckter had the leading role (and a hold position order was issued at Monza with the championship in sight) the truth is that Scheckter won it because of his experience in dealing with championship strategy.

Mclaren is a bit of a mess in this regard: the only time that I saw real good fighting between team mates was 84 and the famous 88/89 Prost/Senna (that resulted with Prost leaving the team accusing Mclaren of favoring Senna...). And this years were good because of this fights as the Mclarens were extremely dominant.

As for 2007... Mclaren forgot they were racing Ferrari and put Alonso at a very uncomfortable situation that ended with their split. You will always hear from Mclaren/Hamilton fans that Mclaren was fair with both drivers putting them in 'equal' staus from Monte Carlo and from Alonso fans you'll always hear that Mclaren favor Hamilton by a mile. From me you'll hear that Mclaren should favor Alonso and falling doing so they fully deserved their 2007 failure.

No doubt that this year and hopefully next 2 years at least the championships will be much about Alonso/Hamilton epic battles and joint with that the classic Ferrari (indiscipline/pasta team ;-) and Mclaren (corporate/pr business ;-)
May the 'latins' win! :up:

#694 buzatlas

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 10:04

2007 still haunts him, and he's never really recovered. I know a lot of critics keep saying he's the 'most complete' driver in F1 but Kubica is doing as good, if not better, job at Renault than Alonso did over the last 2 years.


Why should not Kubica do a good job? And it's different owners/cars, etc.

But if you really want to compare take for instance that Alonso was in 2008 5th in the WDC with 2 wins. And that with a car that started to develop mid 07, same as Kubica as this years Renault car started to be designed mid 09.

#695 Buttoneer

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 10:21

Not a Kubica thread. - just want to avoid this thread derailing again.

The thread is not for members to discuss how much they dislike each other, the Spanish press, the British press, Ron Dennis, Lewis Hamilton or Nelson Piquet. It was intentionally opened with a broad remit to discuss Fernando Alonso. That means some of the issues I just mentioned will inevitably arise but they must not become the main event. If they do, and if posters ignore this or Gareth's warning, members will have their posting rights suspended or withdrawn.



#696 Peter Perfect

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 11:09

Why should not Kubica do a good job? And it's different owners/cars, etc.

But if you really want to compare take for instance that Alonso was in 2008 5th in the WDC with 2 wins. And that with a car that started to develop mid 07, same as Kubica as this years Renault car started to be designed mid 09.


Well...given the 'strategy' used in Singapore it's more like 7th in the WDC with 1 win IMHO.

#697 Massacrator

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 14:29

If I was an Alonso fan I would be utterly ashamed to write this phrase. Unless you started following F1 this year and are just quoting stats.

Why should he?, he didn't know anything about that, and he still had to fight hard to win that one.

#698 Hole

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 14:34

Why should he?, he didn't know anything about that, and he still had to fight hard to win that one.


Yes, and it's not that he was one of the guys that collected more points during the second half only due Singapore win.

#699 ZooL

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 14:46

No other top tier driver has made as many personal mistakes than Alonso this season.

The only weekend he hasn't made a mistake was the 1st race of the season.

If he didn't make so many errors he would be leading the championship, but alas with his mistakes he does not deserve it.

When you compare his mistakes with Hamilton, Button and even Vettel and Webber - Alonso comes out last so far this season.

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#700 VoRteX

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 14:55

several mistakes from Fernando this season.
its unusual from him. and a matter of joy for many :rotfl:s
but i dont see a loss of confidence or skills.
after reading and watching all the interviews my opinion is clear.
the reason: simple overexcitement, it makes one anxious. trying too hard can lead to mistakes.
he looks at ease in the Ferrari environment so i expect this initial anxiety to calm down,
so we can enjoy his best performance with very few mistakes as we are used to.


i really want to go to the next race
when we finish one race...
two weeks between the races for me are very long now
something new, because sometimes i want(ed) some relax
but now im looking forward for the next race