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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#7751 EdwardCullen

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 20:50

Erm, Alonso hasn't asked Massa to move over, the only exception was in 2010 Germany when Felipe had no chance of winning the title and ended up ahead of Alonso due to a good start. Massa has been ahead of Alonso a few times and cost Alonso time or at least having an affect on strategy (Australia 10, Australia 11 and the most recent Chinese grand prix).

So if he was that fast why dont he overtake like every other dirver?! And he did ask his team to move him over, he did the same thing back in Indy 2007 and the same at Canada 2005

Hungary 07? I'm assuming you're referring to the pit lane incident? Well, given it was Alonso's turn to get the final Q3 run and Lewis was the one who initially broke the team orders, you can't really blame it totally on him. They both acted childish but at least Alonso can argue he was obeying the team by waiting until the last moment to leave the pitlane. If you actually go back and watch that session I think he grabbed pole so it would've worked.

What are u talking? Alonso's turn to get the final Q3 run??
Lewis got out in front of Alonso, so Lewis can get one more extra lap..which meant he had one extra lap (which would give me extra fuel for race)..he may have disobeyed team's order but thats not cheating! What Alonso did was real cheating.... impeding someone's quly purposely like Schumy in Monaco.....i know how much people called Schumy cheat back then. Its the same with Alonso on that race....he cheated and blacked Lewis so much that he couldnt start his final Q3 lap on low fuel and new tyres! Thats why Alonso got pole not becoz he was fast or something!

Don't get me wrong, Alonso can be a massive jerk and I'm not a massive fan, but you have to remember he has spanish blood in him and they are always fiery characters. And tbf as much as I love Robert Kubica (one of the best on the grid i reckon), I wish he showed some character like Alonso does.

I hope Kubica never become a cheat like Alonso!
if Schumy was spanish, we can all blame his acts on his origin and say he is innocent

Also to whoever posted the dourboos practice incident; this happens EVERY practice session and MOST drivers make a gesture to a driver who slows them down. If you watch that whole lap before hand Alonso had every right to get annoyed. Every driver does it, that's like getting annoyed at a footballer when he gets complained of getting fouled lol.

Haha, you make me laugh....did u even see what happened back in 2006?
Alonso got penalty for brake testing and causing dangerous move on track! He did that same thing to him during winter testing, then at Turkey and finally at Hungary where he was punished!

yeah, it was becoz of Lewis, it was becoz of Massa, it was becoz of Nelson, It was becoz of his spanish blood blah blah blah...!
We heard all this from his fans, he never is to blame.....
Even when there was email proof about Alonso and Pedro in spygate, his fans where blaming it on Ron and Lewis :lol:

Edited by EdwardCullen, 27 April 2011 - 20:52.


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#7752 Fontainebleau

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 20:58

From July 3rd, 2006:

http://www.elpais.co...lpepidep_22/Tes

Thanks :-). Again, what I read here is far away from the "Renault doesn't want me to win the championship" quote. And also, as per the article, it is an answer to a guided question by the journalist, and not an unasked-for rant. Which again is not particularly nice, but far away from how it is portrayed in internet forums.

#7753 Goron3

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 22:00

1 So if he was that fast why dont he overtake like every other dirver?! And he did ask his team to move him over, he did the same thing back in Indy 2007 and the same at Canada 2005

2 What are u talking? Alonso's turn to get the final Q3 run??
Lewis got out in front of Alonso, so Lewis can get one more extra lap..which meant he had one extra lap (which would give me extra fuel for race)..he may have disobeyed team's order but thats not cheating! What Alonso did was real cheating.... impeding someone's quly purposely like Schumy in Monaco.....i know how much people called Schumy cheat back then. Its the same with Alonso on that race....he cheated and blacked Lewis so much that he couldnt start his final Q3 lap on low fuel and new tyres! Thats why Alonso got pole not becoz he was fast or something!



3 I hope Kubica never become a cheat like Alonso!
if Schumy was spanish, we can all blame his acts on his origin and say he is innocent


4. Haha, you make me laugh....did u even see what happened back in 2006?
Alonso got penalty for brake testing and causing dangerous move on track! He did that same thing to him during winter testing, then at Turkey and finally at Hungary where he was punished!

yeah, it was becoz of Lewis, it was becoz of Massa, it was becoz of Nelson, It was becoz of his spanish blood blah blah blah...!
We heard all this from his fans, he never is to blame.....
Even when there was email proof about Alonso and Pedro in spygate, his fans where blaming it on Ron and Lewis :lol:


1. It's Formula 1. Not all the tracks (especially the modern ones) are designed for overtaking. All cars are VERY aerodynamically sensitive. In order to overtake someone you need to be about 1second a lap faster than them; given Massa is driving a Ferrari too (it's the same car as Alonso's in every way, bar set up), it would be almost impossible to overtake unless Massa made a massive mistake. You also said 'overtake like every other driver'. Well that's completely wrong. Before this season, most drivers rarely recorded overtakes during races. Some grand prixs from 2006 onwards have only had about 10 moves during the whole race.

2. It was known to basically everyone that Alonso was supposed to go out as the LAST driver as it was his turn. Fernando was obeying team orders by staying in his box until the last possible moment. Yes, you can argue it was 'harsh' and he should've been the bigger man but it hardly is cheating. Schumacher in Monaco was cheating; he caused a yellow flag to effectively ruin EVERYONE's lap, knowing he had gone slower. There is no proof that Lewis was going to get pole, he had already set a lap time. Again, I think instead of arguing here you should go and look up and actually learn what happened during this session as your opinion is completely blighted by your hate for Alonso. I'm lucky in that my dad is actually involved heavily with a F1 team so i tend to ignore loads of the media feeds us with regards to that situation, but yeah, look it up.

3. You missed my point but nevermind.

4. Again you haven't even looked at what I wrote. Someone posted a vid of Alonso overtaking a slower car and waving his finger at him; Alonso didn't brake test him at all, he drove past him. I am aware of the brake testing incident you are referring and yes you're right, any driver who does it should get penalised. I never disagreed with you on that.

And yes, I will agree many Alonso fans give the whole 'Alonso is completely innocent' viewpoint but that is just as bad as 'Alonso is a cheater' argument because you are letting bias and judgement get in the way of what is happening. Fernando did blackmail Ron which was just stupid but it's clearly not something he would do again; he was a young 2 time world champion back then and clearly it had got to his head a bit. You stated that 'they try to blame it on Ron Dennis and Lewis' and well let's be honest, Ron did a LOT wrong that year. The reason why Whitmarsh is so respected in the paddock is the fact that he doesn't have favourites, which unfortunately Ron did (though again, understandable to an extent due to him knowing Lewis from a young age).

I'm not really going to bother replying to any really 'antil alonso' posts after this. i'm not the guys biggest fan but anyone who hates him to a point that they see anyone who doesn't hate him/see things for how they actually happened as an idiot/fan boy isn't worth the time.

Anways, I'm watching Suzuka 2005 highlights atm. Loving Anthony Davidson's 'WOAHHHHHHHHHHHHH' comment as Alonso takes Schumi round 130R. Jeez, I've driven round that corner in real life and the thought of overtaking someone at 203mph is just mindblowing.

#7754 Skinnyguy

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 22:49

Thanks :-). Again, what I read here is far away from the "Renault doesn't want me to win the championship" quote. And also, as per the article, it is an answer to a guided question by the journalist, and not an unasked-for rant. Which again is not particularly nice, but far away from how it is portrayed in internet forums.


"Not particulary nice"... Jesus

http://www.sportingl...ual_115203.html

This was the headline used by every media covering that infamous interview, I don´t think they all got it out of anywhere, especially talking about Spanish media where the original interview was made. It´s a stupid comment, the guy is obsessed with being sabotaged, when anything goes wrong, it´s FIA / the team / other driver´s fault.

#7755 Fontainebleau

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 23:01

"Not particulary nice"... Jesus

http://www.sportingl...ual_115203.html

This was the headline used by every media covering that infamous interview, I don´t think they all got it out of anywhere, especially talking about Spanish media where the original interview was made. It´s a stupid comment, the guy is obsessed with being sabotaged, when anything goes wrong, it´s FIA / the team / other driver´s fault.

Really? Please, do me a favour - go to the link you posted, and tell me if there is a quote of Alonso saying "Renault does not want me to win" in it. These are the quotes provided:
"They wanted us to finish second and third because they do not want me to take the number 'one' to a different team"
"They are not helping me as much as they could."
"Some [at Renault] are happy because we went past Ferrari in the team battle,"
Now, please compare the quotes above with the ones I posted initially:
"I am sure that they are and they openly said so. For the team the constructors' ttle is more important than the drivers' title. And since I am leaving the team I don't know how interested they would be in me taking the #1 to McLaren" "It looks like the team is thinking more in the WCC than in my WDC. They prefer a second and third positions to other things. They saw 14 points and they do not care about which order the two cars have."

As Spanish is my mother tongue, I went straight to the original interview. And to me it looks that in the article you posted somebody did a little cut-and-paste to make Alonso's words sound a bit juicier than they were.

So now - where do you think they got their headline from?

Edited by Fontainebleau, 27 April 2011 - 23:01.


#7756 robefc

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 23:01

2. It was known to basically everyone that Alonso was supposed to go out as the LAST driver as it was his turn. Fernando was obeying team orders by staying in his box until the last possible moment. Yes, you can argue it was 'harsh' and he should've been the bigger man but it hardly is cheating. Schumacher in Monaco was cheating; he caused a yellow flag to effectively ruin EVERYONE's lap, knowing he had gone slower. There is no proof that Lewis was going to get pole, he had already set a lap time. Again, I think instead of arguing here you should go and look up and actually learn what happened during this session as your opinion is completely blighted by your hate for Alonso. I'm lucky in that my dad is actually involved heavily with a F1 team so i tend to ignore loads of the media feeds us with regards to that situation, but yeah, look it up.


Erm no, he was obeying team orders right up to the point that were they lifted the lollipop for him to leave the pits and he declined to do so.

Regardless of whether you think lewis started it or alonso was justified in retaliating what you've said there is complete rubbish.

#7757 Buttoneer

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 23:06

Please will posters stop trolling and baiting.

#7758 Goron3

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 23:09

Erm no, he was obeying team orders right up to the point that were they lifted the lollipop for him to leave the pits and he declined to do so.

Regardless of whether you think lewis started it or alonso was justified in retaliating what you've said there is complete rubbish.


Actually reading that back, I didn't phrase it right. It was decided that Alonso would get the last run, but yeah he obviously stayed there longer knowing Lewis was behind. I explained it better in my previous post, sorry for the confusion. They both did wrong during the season, i think we can all agree on that. I'm saying at least Fernando can argue that he was meant to leave at the latest possible time and he still got the final run they intended, but he should have just done his lap and sorted it out after that.

Oh well, 2007 has been covered numerous times. Frankly I'm glad Lewis and Alonso didn't work simply because Kimi got the title, and after 2005 I thought he definitely deserved a world title if Alonso had one.





#7759 fabr68

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 23:58

What you posted as Alonso's words is in my opinion an aggressive attack against his team. As a team owner - or even as a cleaning person at the factory - I would be pretty pissed off at him for saying such things in public. That's not what a good team player should be doing. He has proverbially stabbed his team in the back several times by now and I think you can't blame me for saying that's a bad attitude from him.

Alonso is a great racer and he's obviously very talented. No one here is denying that. But sometimes this nasty side of him bursts out and that's what I am commenting on here, that he has this nasty attitude that pops up every once in a while and I wouldn't tolerate it if it were my team and apparently neither did Ron Dennis.


Funny how at the end, Flavio got two Constructor's trophies out of Alonso, while Ron got zilch, nothing, nada. Formula 1 is not personal, it is business and it goes to show you that those who are driven by their cold brains get more than those who are driven by their emotional feelings. Irony is sweet...the flamboyant Italian less emotional than the English gentleman. :rotfl:

And this is what Alonso had to say after the so called "attacks against his team"



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#7760 aragon

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 06:59

What you posted as Alonso's words is in my opinion an aggressive attack against his team. As a team owner - or even as a cleaning person at the factory - I would be pretty pissed off at him for saying such things in public. That's not what a good team player should be doing. He has proverbially stabbed his team in the back several times by now and I think you can't blame me for saying that's a bad attitude from him.

Alonso is a great racer and he's obviously very talented. No one here is denying that. But sometimes this nasty side of him bursts out and that's what I am commenting on here, that he has this nasty attitude that pops up every once in a while and I wouldn't tolerate it if it were my team and apparently neither did Ron Dennis.

I prefer a nasty fast Alonso at Ferrari than a lazy slow one..... Thanks.

Edited by aragon, 28 April 2011 - 07:02.


#7761 ForzaGTR

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 08:09

As a Ferrari fan, I like the fact that Alonso radioed Ferrari to warn them he is faster. I prefer this over him trying to fight Massa and both of them crashing out leaving everyone at Ferrari egg-faced and with zero points. Also, If a faster Massa is ahead of a turtle slow Alonso I would expect Alonso to yield. It is a cold brain decision, but leaving emotional feelings aside it is the best choice for both drivers and the team. I totally understand the frustration from fans of other teams and driver fans on missing out both Ferrari cars getting DNFs to the benefit of their own.


Surely you would prefer the Hamilton and Button approach that allows them to race each other. This is racing, if you are not fast enough to pass your team mate then tough luck. Alonso damaged his reputation on Germany.

#7762 velgajski1

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 08:21

He has been inconsistent in my opinion. I thought he made way to many mistakes in the first half of 2010. The second half I thought he drove wonderfully.

Even though the season is long, every race counts and you can't make the mistakes he made last year and give away all those points. The competition is to close now. This year is a little tough to figure out with the pace of the car and the tire situation. However he has finished lower than he qualified in all three races....mostly due to his starts.

I think he is an incredibly talented driver and there is none better, although there is one, possibly two equal.

I know Red Bull almost shot themselves in the foot last year even with their wonder car but I think Fernando could have gotten the WDC if he had less mistakes. He would have been a 3 time winner compared to Hamiltons 1 and Vettels 0. That would have given him a big edge over the drivers of his era. Others may disagree (I know they do) but at the end of the day wins and Championships count.

Any questions? :D


This. He has been inconsistent ever since he got to McLaren. And what is interesting he always starts the season weakly - lack of preparation perhaps?

Even in McLaren he had some strange races where he would be unexplainably slower than Lewis, and what McLaren was supposed to be. One can argue that if Lewis Hamilton wasn't in McLaren he would have gotten away with it and everyone would say that McLaren wasn't such a great car after all, but that Alonso drove some brilliant races.

Then, in 2008. people said he had a junk car, but that is not entirely true - up until midseason best result for the team was brought by Piquet who was supposed to be trashed by Alonso. People seem to forget some of his races early in 2008. where he made many mistakes or was simply off pace.

In 2009. I thought he drove well all the season with terrible equipment.

In 2010. he made lots of mistakes in some crucial moments early in the season which cost him WDC title in the end.

In 2011. he started not that great again, I can bet he will again win more points and make less mistakes as season draws to an end.

So, in my opinion, something is wrong with Fernando at the starts of the seasons, and was so ever since he left Renault.

#7763 as65p

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 08:32

Surely you would prefer the Hamilton and Button approach that allows them to race each other. This is racing, if you are not fast enough to pass your team mate then tough luck. Alonso damaged his reputation on Germany.


The fans ought to prefer free for all, no doubt (but I suspect a large percentage will only go along with it as longs as it's their man coming out on top :p ).

But the drivers, well... it would be silly not to try and maximize your opportunities by any means possible, including bullying for a free pass on your teammate.

Pretty frequently we hear radio conversations where between teammates the one behind tries to convince the pit wall that he's faster, the aim is clearly to get the team to instruct the other guy to let him pass. That's nothing special, really.

Why do you think last year in Turkey Hamilton inquired if Button will attempt to pass him or not? If McLarens policy were really to let the drivers race at all times, as the fans try to propagate, the question wouldn't have made any sense in the first place.

#7764 as65p

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 08:38

Then, in 2008. people said he had a junk car, but that is not entirely true - up until midseason best result for the team was brought by Piquet who was supposed to be trashed by Alonso.


Ah, that sentence utterly ruines your carefully developed theory.

To use Piquets one fluke result as an argument that the car wasn't bad, then even suggest that he was NOT trashed... :drunk:

Shame really, you were doing so well with the rest of your post... :cry:  ;)

#7765 revlec

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 08:45

The fans ought to prefer free for all, no doubt (but I suspect a large percentage will only go along with it as longs as it's their man coming out on top :p ).

But the drivers, well... it would be silly not to try and maximize your opportunities by any means possible, including bullying for a free pass on your teammate.

Pretty frequently we hear radio conversations where between teammates the one behind tries to convince the pit wall that he's faster, the aim is clearly to get the team to instruct the other guy to let him pass. That's nothing special, really.

Why do you think last year in Turkey Hamilton inquired if Button will attempt to pass him or not? If McLarens policy were really to let the drivers race at all times, as the fans try to propagate, the question wouldn't have made any sense in the first place.

HAM was racing BUT and asked a legitimate question.. "If i back off, is Jenson going to pass me or not?" i don't see anything wrong with that.. he wanted to win, not to slowdown his team mate.. there is a difference.. and hey, mind you he did overtake him just few corners later, but i'm sure you will say Martin told BUT to give the postion back within 3 milliseconds...

p.s: the order "team is critical" was given to both drivers, not only to LEW so his question was even MORE legitimate..

Edited by revlec, 28 April 2011 - 08:46.


#7766 as65p

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 08:51

HAM was racing BUT and asked a legitimate question.. "If i back off, is Jenson going to pass me or not?" i don't see anything wrong with that.. he wanted to win, not to slowdown his team mate.. there is a difference.. and hey, mind you he did overtake him just few corners later, but i'm sure you will say Martin told BUT to give the postion back within 3 milliseconds...

p.s: the order "team is critical" was given to both drivers, not only to LEW so his question was even MORE legitimate..


What's clear (and legitimate) is that the team tried to secure their one-two by calling the race off. Just that Button didn't get the memo in time...

Sure Hamilton wanted to win. And he asked to make sure his teammate won't get in the way of that aim.


#7767 Gareth

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 08:58

Alonso is surely one of the most fair drivers in race-conditions, that has ever driven in f1 (we are talking about the top guys).

Completely agree. On track, in a race, overtaking or defending I can think of two moves from Alonso that I thought were borderline. Not definitely wrong, just close to the line. IMO that's incredibly impressive for a driver who fights as hard as he does and one of his greatest strengths.

Really? Please, do me a favour - go to the link you posted, and tell me if there is a quote of Alonso saying "Renault does not want me to win" in it. These are the quotes provided:
"They wanted us to finish second and third because they do not want me to take the number 'one' to a different team"
"They are not helping me as much as they could."
"Some [at Renault] are happy because we went past Ferrari in the team battle,"
Now, please compare the quotes above with the ones I posted initially:
"I am sure that they are and they openly said so. For the team the constructors' ttle is more important than the drivers' title. And since I am leaving the team I don't know how interested they would be in me taking the #1 to McLaren" "It looks like the team is thinking more in the WCC than in my WDC. They prefer a second and third positions to other things. They saw 14 points and they do not care about which order the two cars have."

As Spanish is my mother tongue, I went straight to the original interview. And to me it looks that in the article you posted somebody did a little cut-and-paste to make Alonso's words sound a bit juicier than they were.

So now - where do you think they got their headline from?

Yup. "I don't know if they want me to win" (IMO, the gist of his 'number 1' remark in the original interview) is very, very different from "they don't want me to win".

#7768 Skinnyguy

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 09:08

As Spanish is my mother tongue, I went straight to the original interview. And to me it looks that in the article you posted somebody did a little cut-and-paste to make Alonso's words sound a bit juicier than they were.

So now - where do you think they got their headline from?


Oh sure, EVERYONE using the sentence did a copy and paste from... from what?

If you want to ignore that quote, it´s OK, I guess you have your reasons. But hey, you´re going to look like a massive fanboy saying that those other quotes you posted are not that stupid/childish. I can´t remember a driver challenging for a WDC without his team mate in the fight moaning about lack of support/ being alone in the fight etc. Again, nothing to do with his on track behaviour, but says a lot about his personality, he´s obsesed with the world being against him, he can´t stand the fact of being beaten (or even the likelihood of being beaten), and he always looks for excuses in other places when that happens: Renault, stewards, Ron Dennis, Hamilton, FIA, Petrov... that´s a disgusting attitude. :down:

#7769 velgajski1

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 09:09

Ah, that sentence utterly ruines your carefully developed theory.

To use Piquets one fluke result as an argument that the car wasn't bad, then even suggest that he was NOT trashed... :drunk:

Shame really, you were doing so well with the rest of your post... :cry:;)


I suggested he was not trashed up until late season which he wasn't. Piquet scored 10 points, with 2 point finishes, Alonso had 5 point finishes and scored 15 points - I would hardly call that a trashing.

I don't have any reliable arguments that the car wasn't bad except that Alonso said before the championship that Renault will fight for championship + my own subjective view, but the fact stays that this car was not utter bullcrap as long as Piquet managed to score a podium and another point finish with it up until midseason. This is for example better than Kovalainen (who is still in F1, mind you) did with McLaren 2009. up until same point in the season.

Another interesting thing is that Piquet scored less points in second half of season than in first half so his performance more or less stayed the same. On the other hand Alonso won 2 races in second half of season, and scored more points than any driver IIRC.

If something happens for one or two seasons then no theories can be made of it, but if something is happening on a pretty consistent level then its worth studying a bit more.

Edited by velgajski1, 28 April 2011 - 09:15.


#7770 revlec

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 09:10

What's clear (and legitimate) is that the team tried to secure their one-two by calling the race off. Just that Button didn't get the memo in time...

Sure Hamilton wanted to win. And he asked to make sure his teammate won't get in the way of that aim.


Did you see the pace HAM was able to maintain after he past BUT? you sincerly think that he had fuel problems??


#7771 Dunder

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 09:13

The fans ought to prefer free for all, no doubt (but I suspect a large percentage will only go along with it as longs as it's their man coming out on top :p ).

But the drivers, well... it would be silly not to try and maximize your opportunities by any means possible, including bullying for a free pass on your teammate.

Pretty frequently we hear radio conversations where between teammates the one behind tries to convince the pit wall that he's faster, the aim is clearly to get the team to instruct the other guy to let him pass. That's nothing special, really.

Why do you think last year in Turkey Hamilton inquired if Button will attempt to pass him or not? If McLarens policy were really to let the drivers race at all times, as the fans try to propagate, the question wouldn't have made any sense in the first place.


In the case of Alonso, I can think of quite a few examples from Canada 2005 onwards.
I am struggling to recall any involving other top drivers.


#7772 as65p

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 09:26

In the case of Alonso, I can think of quite a few examples from Canada 2005 onwards.
I am struggling to recall any involving other top drivers.


I know. :)

The funny thing is, if in Alonso teams he were really the no.1 by virtue of his evil manipulative character and/or even more evil Santander money, he wouldn't even need to get on the radio. Instead the respective no.2 muppet would now his place and jump out of the way on the spot. I seem to recall a top team were it was like that two or three years ago, name escapes me ATM... I think the cars were a bit silverish... :confused:  ;)

There are also the frequent cases Alonso teammates finished in front of him. What happened there? Did Alonso not bother on those days [to assert his evil powers via radio]?

#7773 as65p

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 09:34

Did you see the pace HAM was able to maintain after he past BUT? you sincerly think that he had fuel problems??


I sincerely think Hamilton overdid the slowing down thing on the first lap after the team had told both drivers to, and almost paid the price.

Nothing any more special, except that Hamilton for one reason or another sought confirmation from the team to get a free ride 'til the flag.

#7774 revlec

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 09:52

I sincerely think Hamilton overdid the slowing down thing on the first lap after the team had told both drivers to, and almost paid the price.

Nothing any more special, except that Hamilton for one reason or another sought confirmation from the team to get a free ride 'til the flag.



He actually hate that and you know it.. may be you you are talking about someone else..;)

#7775 as65p

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 09:56

He actually hate that and you know it..


What I know is that he likes to give the impression he hates it. Small diff.

may be you you are talking about someone else..;)


You wish... :)



#7776 Dunder

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 09:57

I know. :)

The funny thing is, if in Alonso teams he were really the no.1 by virtue of his evil manipulative character and/or even more evil Santander money, he wouldn't even need to get on the radio. Instead the respective no.2 muppet would now his place and jump out of the way on the spot. I seem to recall a top team were it was like that two or three years ago, name escapes me ATM... I think the cars were a bit silverish... :confused: ;)

There are also the frequent cases Alonso teammates finished in front of him. What happened there? Did Alonso not bother on those days [to assert his evil powers via radio]?


Let's not go down that road, aside from anything else you are assigning views on me that I do not hold and have never expressed.
Let's just leave it that you raised a point which I successfully repudiated (ergo, I win. :p).

#7777 as65p

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 10:01

Let's not go down that road, aside from anything else you are assigning views on me that I do not hold and have never expressed.
Let's just leave it that you raised a point which I successfully repudiated (ergo, I win. :p).


How fitting, a win achieved in the very style we're discussing... :up: :)

#7778 revlec

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 10:05

What I know is that he likes to give the impression he hates it. Small diff.



Sure, you know HAM better than himself.. don't you.. :rolleyes:
we are talking about facts but you bring your "weak" conclusion...

Edited by revlec, 28 April 2011 - 10:06.


#7779 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 10:07

Like knocking over little kids and pushing over photographers?

edit: Oh wait.....that was another driver. My apologies.

First you complain about people going off topic concerning Kimi. And then you do the exact same yourself :down:
Second, he didnt knock down the kid. The mom or whoever that was did that on her own. Watch the video and dont slander people.

Haha, you make me laugh....did u even see what happened back in 2006?
Alonso got penalty for brake testing and causing dangerous move on track! He did that same thing to him during winter testing, then at Turkey and finally at Hungary where he was punished!

yeah, it was becoz of Lewis, it was becoz of Massa, it was becoz of Nelson, It was becoz of his spanish blood blah blah blah...!
We heard all this from his fans, he never is to blame.....
Even when there was email proof about Alonso and Pedro in spygate, his fans where blaming it on Ron and Lewis :lol:

I praised Alonso earlier for being fair when wheel to wheel. It is strange that he acts like a total dick on some occasions but when he is racing against competitors from other teams he is surprisingly fair compared to how he behaves sometimes. With his attitude problems one would suspect extreme blocking moves and a lot of wheelbanging.
I guess he saves up all those things for when his teammate is in front and limits braketesting and blocking for practice sessions and the pitlane?

Edited by Desdirodeabike, 28 April 2011 - 10:08.


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#7780 Dunder

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 10:14

How fitting, a win achieved in the very style we're discussing... :up: :)


As the old saying goes "All is fair in love, war, F1 and forumming"
Something like that anyway.


#7781 as65p

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 10:14

I praised Alonso earlier for being fair when wheel to wheel. It is strange that he acts like a total dick on some occasions but when he is racing against competitors from other teams he is surprisingly fair compared to how he behaves sometimes. With his attitude problems one would suspect extreme blocking moves and a lot of wheelbanging.


Yep. Very strange and surprising that he doesn't behave according to the the picture you build of him in your mind... :p



#7782 as65p

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 10:18

As the old saying goes "All is fair in love, war, F1 and forumming"
Something like that anyway.


Nice, my original point. :)

Getting your teammate to move out of the way is just another method to try and maximize your result. If presented with the opportunity, or posessing the powers to demand it, no driver will refute it.

Of course the ultimate power belongs to those who don't even need to ask... way to go still for Alonso...  ;)

#7783 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 10:28

Yep. Very strange and surprising that he doesn't behave according to the the picture you build of him in your mind... :p

Get a grip. There are plenty of links and videos in this very thread to prove my point. That picture is well documented and only his most rabid followers fail to see that.

#7784 Suntrek

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 10:35

In the case of Alonso, I can think of quite a few examples from Canada 2005 onwards.
I am struggling to recall any involving other top drivers.


I can only think of two occasions when Alonso has been on the radio telling the team he is faster. It's Canada 2005 as you mention and Germany 2010.

Which other examples are you thinking about?

#7785 Fontainebleau

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 11:22

Yup. "I don't know if they want me to win" (IMO, the gist of his 'number 1' remark in the original interview) is very, very different from "they don't want me to win".

What is very, very different is what he said in Spanish from what the link provided as the translation in English. Please note that the original question he was asked by the journalist was "is Renault happy with the results of the race despite you losing the leadership in the WDC?". His reply, as copied above, was "I am sure that they are and they openly said so. For the team the constructors' ttle is more important than the drivers' title. And since I am leaving the team I don't know how interested they would be in me taking the #1 to McLaren". That is a far cry from Alonso saying that Renault did not want him to win, it is him just stating the logical fact that the team cared more about the WCC, particularly as the WDC would bring them no additional benefit.

Edited by Fontainebleau, 28 April 2011 - 11:26.


#7786 Fontainebleau

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 11:28

Oh sure, EVERYONE using the sentence did a copy and paste from... from what?

If you want to ignore that quote, it´s OK, I guess you have your reasons. But hey, you´re going to look like a massive fanboy saying that those other quotes you posted are not that stupid/childish. I can´t remember a driver challenging for a WDC without his team mate in the fight moaning about lack of support/ being alone in the fight etc. Again, nothing to do with his on track behaviour, but says a lot about his personality, he´s obsesed with the world being against him, he can´t stand the fact of being beaten (or even the likelihood of being beaten), and he always looks for excuses in other places when that happens: Renault, stewards, Ron Dennis, Hamilton, FIA, Petrov... that´s a disgusting attitude. :down:

I think that you have missed the point: that is not a quote. And you seem to totally ignore the circumstances of the Chinese 2006 GP when making your statements above.

#7787 Gareth

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 11:35

What is very, very different is what he said in Spanish from what the link provided as the translation in English.

I know. I was trying to agree with you with that last post! :lol:


#7788 Fontainebleau

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 11:51

I know. I was trying to agree with you with that last post! :lol:

:lol: I am very sorry, my only excuse for being that thick is that I am having a bad day at the office! ;)

#7789 as65p

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 12:17

Get a grip. There are plenty of links and videos in this very thread to prove my point. That picture is well documented and only his most rabid followers fail to see that.


It was you who deemed it strange that parts of the puzzle don't seem to fit, did you forget already?

It is strange that he acts like a total dick on some occasions but when he is racing against competitors from other teams he is surprisingly fair compared to how he behaves sometimes. With his attitude problems one would suspect extreme blocking moves and a lot of wheelbanging.


So don't blame me for losing grip. :wave:

I was just trying to give you a hint where to look in a bid to solve this strange and surprising mystery... :)

#7790 as65p

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 12:24

Sure, you know HAM better than himself.. don't you.. :rolleyes:
we are talking about facts but you bring your "weak" conclusion...


Well, if in doubt re-watch the Turkey podium ceremony for a convincing expression of Hamilton totally enjoying his battle with Button. :smoking:

#7791 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 12:31

It was you who deemed it strange that parts of the puzzle don't seem to fit, did you forget already?

So don't blame me for losing grip. :wave:

I was just trying to give you a hint where to look in a bid to solve this strange and surprising mystery... :)

Uhm what? You seem to be mixing things. The fact that he is acting like a dick sometimes is well documented. That is why I am commending him on racing as fair as he actually does when wheel to wheel.

#7792 AlanWake

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 12:56

It is strange that he acts like a total dick on some occasions but when he is racing against competitors from other teams he is surprisingly fair compared to how he behaves sometimes. With his attitude problems one would suspect extreme blocking moves and a lot of wheelbanging.


A fair driver wheel to wheel but a person with attitude problems... It sounds contradictory to me! :p

IMO, his image as a "bad guy" is overblown by the media, specially by the British Press. Nobody is saying he is completely innocent, of course, but he's not the pantomime villain some are trying to paint him out to be... There are F1 Fans that tend to admit how wrong they were in their judgment of him when they know him...can you just guess why?

Edited by AlanWake, 28 April 2011 - 12:59.


#7793 robefc

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 13:05

A fair driver wheel to wheel but a person with attitude problems... It sounds contradictory to me! :p

IMO, his image as a "bad guy" is overblown by the media, specially by the British Press. Nobody is saying he is completely innocent, of course, but he's not the pantomime villain some are trying to paint him out to be... There are F1 Fans that tend to admit how wrong they were in their judgment of him when they know him...can you just guess why?


I don't think this is so much the case post 2007 to be honest. They were very unhappy about the team orders thing in germany but a lot of that wasn't aimed at fred and what was aimed at fred would have been aimed at anyone in that position imo.

I imagine, although I don't know, that lewis is far more of a pantomine villan in spain than alonso is in england.


#7794 as65p

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 13:10

Uhm what? You seem to be mixing things. The fact that he is acting like a dick sometimes is well documented. That is why I am commending him on racing as fair as he actually does when wheel to wheel.


I'm not mixing anything. You still work from the premise that he's "a dick" (which POV isn't "well documented" but just widely spread, not quite the same) and then of course you end up wondering why he isn't actually driving like "the dick" he must be. Okay maybe I should applaud you for even recognizing that he's driving quite fair, lot's of people don't even reach that point. So, :up: that far.

Still, the solution to that strange and surprising riddle is quite simple, once you manage to get your head around it.

There are other hints too. Did you ever ask yourself why none of the drivers to which he did those terrible, terrible things in testing sessions did have a problem with it afterwards? Why not even Nelsinho Piquet had anything bad to say about him after their time together at Renault?

#7795 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 13:36

I'm not mixing anything. You still work from the premise that he's "a dick" (which POV isn't "well documented" but just widely spread, not quite the same) and then of course you end up wondering why he isn't actually driving like "the dick" he must be. Okay maybe I should applaud you for even recognizing that he's driving quite fair, lot's of people don't even reach that point. So, :up: that far.

Still, the solution to that strange and surprising riddle is quite simple, once you manage to get your head around it.

There are other hints too. Did you ever ask yourself why none of the drivers to which he did those terrible, terrible things in testing sessions did have a problem with it afterwards? Why not even Nelsinho Piquet had anything bad to say about him after their time together at Renault?

Whatever dude. The guy acts like a complete tool from time to time. If you fail to see that then godspeed to ya. Plenty of other people do. Why dont you take a look at the Abu Dhabi race for instance and listen to what Brundle had to say about his pathetic arm waving at Petrov after the race. That is grade A asshole behavior. End of. Just one example. I think we are done here anyway.

Edit: But let me add to this, that even though he behaved very unsportsmanlike after the race, he didnt try some crazy kamikaze move on Petrov during the race. And that is admirable.

Edited by Desdirodeabike, 28 April 2011 - 13:39.


#7796 AlanWake

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 13:40

I imagine, although I don't know, that lewis is far more of a pantomine villan in spain than alonso is in england.


I disagree. The Spanish media was very hard with Lewis in 2007-2008, but since 2009 Lewis is more respected by the Spanish media in general. I can't say the same about certain British media with Alonso... they haven't got over what happened in 2007.

Edited by AlanWake, 28 April 2011 - 13:41.


#7797 Buttoneer

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 13:41

Can posters please stop baiting and trolling. If you cannot discuss a topic without resort to name calling, perhaps you should ignore the topic.

#7798 cardin

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 13:51

Completely agree. On track, in a race, overtaking or defending I can think of two moves from Alonso that I thought were borderline. Not definitely wrong, just close to the line. IMO that's incredibly impressive for a driver who fights as hard as he does and one of his greatest strengths.


Yup. "I don't know if they want me to win" (IMO, the gist of his 'number 1' remark in the original interview) is very, very different from "they don't want me to win".


I wouldn't say it's very, very different but it's different. What I'm not sure, by reading your post, is if what he said is acceptable. For me, when he said that, was when he lost my support. It was when he start to show his colors. 2007 not only confirmed but expanded the notion that he's an extremely flawed human being.

#7799 ArtShelley

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 14:40

Well, if in doubt re-watch the Turkey podium ceremony for a convincing expression of Hamilton totally enjoying his battle with Button. :smoking:


*comes in, sees some people fantasizing about Hamilton in an Alonso thread. Walks out*

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#7800 Gareth

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 14:51

I wouldn't say it's very, very different but it's different. What I'm not sure, by reading your post, is if what he said is acceptable. For me, when he said that, was when he lost my support. It was when he start to show his colors. 2007 not only confirmed but expanded the notion that he's an extremely flawed human being.

To me it's one of those things where you'd like to think you wouldn't do the same if placed in that situation but you can understand why it happened. So I wouldn't say it was acceptable but then I wouldn't say it was unnacceptable either, if that makes sense? It's not the greatest thing in the world to have said, it's also not the worst.