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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#7901 anachronox

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 14:21

There was no Ferrari IP found on the 08 car Lewis won in. From your own link: "McLaren vowed not to use these items in 2008".

And even if there had been, it would have been Fernando who helped put it there, not Lewis. So it would be a pretty stupid argument however you slice it.

Fernando claimed Singapore as a win, his fans have to work with that, not try and get out of it with fabricated hits against some other driver.

AFAIC once it came out and he was asked, there was no easy answer without embellishing the story and feeding the media with it, so I don't have a problem with it.


Mclaren vows, :stoned:

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#7902 undersquare

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 14:44

Mclaren vows, :stoned:


A moment's thought will tell you they probably did not use the pwecious Ferrari brake balance lever, since it sits on display in the cockpit for Charlie to see at every race. On the other hand we could consider "I went on the countdown", "I wasn't waving my fist in anger", or "it wasn't a team order" :p

If you want to pick fights on Fernando's behalf, I wouldn't choose lying or cheating as the battleground, personally. I'd just explain how limited Fernando's options really were when he was asked about Singapore 08.

#7903 fabr68

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 14:46

There was no Ferrari IP found on the 08 car Lewis won in. From your own link: "McLaren vowed not to use these items in 2008".

And even if there had been, it would have been Fernando who helped put it there, not Lewis. So it would be a pretty stupid argument however you slice it.

Fernando claimed Singapore as a win, his fans have to work with that, not try and get out of it with fabricated hits against some other driver.

AFAIC once it came out and he was asked, there was no easy answer without embellishing the story and feeding the media with it, so I don't have a problem with it.


You insult other people's arguments but you seriously need to take a look at yours. You say even if Lewis won with a cheating car, he is absolved of sin because there is no evidence he knew about Spygate. But then you go on about how Alonso and his fans have to live with his Singapore win even though there is no evidence he knew about Crashgate :stoned:

Seriously, fans need to move on from constantly bashing drivers from all the coolaid the sensationalist F1 media serves them.

#7904 undersquare

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 14:51

You insult other people's arguments but you seriously need to take a look at yours. You say even if Lewis won with a cheating car, he is absolved of sin because there is no evidence he knew about Spygate. But then you go on about how Alonso and his fans have to live with his Singapore win even though there is no evidence he knew about Crashgate :stoned:

Seriously, fans need to move on from constantly bashing drivers from all the coolaid the sensationalist F1 media serves them.

Nope. What would be stupid would be attacking Hamilton for winning with Alonso's cheating :lol:

But my point was you should simply not introduce Hamilton into it but just offer a defence for Alonso's claiming Singapore as a win, which is perfectly viable IMO.

#7905 e34

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 16:33

There was no Ferrari IP found on the 08 car Lewis won in. From your own link: "McLaren vowed not to use these items in 2008".

And even if there had been, it would have been Fernando who helped put it there, not Lewis. So it would be a pretty stupid argument however you slice it.

Fernando claimed Singapore as a win, his fans have to work with that, not try and get out of it with fabricated hits against some other driver.

AFAIC once it came out and he was asked, there was no easy answer without embellishing the story and feeding the media with it, so I don't have a problem with it.


So now Alonso designed the car with which Lewis won the championship? You are not warming to Alonso, you are marcoslive in disguise... :lol:

Now seriously, I didn't want to imply that Hamilton knew or did not knew. All I wanted to say is that there was more people than the three often mentioned (Alonso, Coughlan and de la Rosa, as if they were an autonomous cell operating in isolation in McLaren) that used the info of Ferrari, because you can be sure that Alonso did not design the brake system of MP4-23.



#7906 fabr68

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 18:12

Nope. What would be stupid would be attacking Hamilton for winning with Alonso's cheating :lol:

But my point was you should simply not introduce Hamilton into it but just offer a defence for Alonso's claiming Singapore as a win, which is perfectly viable IMO.


Well, that is the same explanation. Alonso did not know about Singapore until the end of 2009. I guess attacking Alonso for Piquet Jr's cheating is genius in contrast. :D

#7907 undersquare

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 18:16

So now Alonso designed the car with which Lewis won the championship? You are not warming to Alonso, you are marcoslive in disguise... :lol:

Now seriously, I didn't want to imply that Hamilton knew or did not knew. All I wanted to say is that there was more people than the three often mentioned (Alonso, Coughlan and de la Rosa, as if they were an autonomous cell operating in isolation in McLaren) that used the info of Ferrari, because you can be sure that Alonso did not design the brake system of MP4-23.


I agree, I think :eek:
:)


#7908 undersquare

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 18:24

Well, that is the same explanation. Alonso did not know about Singapore until the end of 2009. I guess attacking Alonso for Piquet Jr's cheating is genius in contrast. :D


I thought the issue was Fernando saying he counted it as a valid win? Which he was being attacked for earlier.

But that IMO can be defended by pointing out that if he had said anything else, that I can think of anyway, it would have been 'a story'. It would have drawn him into a discussion about Flav and Symonds, probably, and led to a lot of extra questions that he'd have had to fend off. Say as little as possible, is a golden rule in those situations, and 'yes' is as little as it gets.

Fernando is very smart in dealing with the media, he didn't get his Teflonso tag for nothing :D

#7909 lewymp4

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 18:42

Now seriously, I didn't want to imply that Hamilton knew or did not knew. All I wanted to say is that there was more people than the three often mentioned (Alonso, Coughlan and de la Rosa, as if they were an autonomous cell operating in isolation in McLaren) that used the info of Ferrari, because you can be sure that Alonso did not design the brake system of MP4-23.


I would hardly believe at that time, Fernando would have shared any info with Lewis, in order to make him more competitive.


#7910 YellowHelmet

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 19:09

I would hardly believe at that time, Fernando would have shared any info with Lewis, in order to make him more competitive.

he shared almost all his datas with lewis.


BUT:
isnt there a hamilton vs. alonso thread.
this one is just about alonso, and it is concentrating on alonso, especially news about him and not so much about the past.
plz stop talking about that 2007 bs (at least here in this thread) :rolleyes:

Edited by YellowHelmet, 29 April 2011 - 19:10.


#7911 fabr68

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 19:13

I thought the issue was Fernando saying he counted it as a valid win? Which he was being attacked for earlier.

But that IMO can be defended by pointing out that if he had said anything else, that I can think of anyway, it would have been 'a story'. It would have drawn him into a discussion about Flav and Symonds, probably, and led to a lot of extra questions that he'd have had to fend off. Say as little as possible, is a golden rule in those situations, and 'yes' is as little as it gets.

Fernando is very smart in dealing with the media, he didn't get his Teflonso tag for nothing :D


Well, I don't see anything wrong with saying that Singapore 2008 counted as a valid win. Ask any FIA official, heck ask Todt and his answer will be the same as Alonso's. The result cannot be changed, so it is officially valid.

And yes, I love how the so-called "reputable" F1 media is fixated on their hate with one driver and call him names. Be it another driver also involved in a FIA scandal, and such reporter(s) would be thrown out of their seat.

#7912 Skinnyguy

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 19:33

And yes, I love how the so-called "reputable" F1 media is fixated on their hate with one driver and call him names. Be it another driver also involved in a FIA scandal, and such reporter(s) would be thrown out of their seat.


Well done, let´s keep the stupid-conspiracies flow alive.

#7913 puxanando

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 10:57

Well done, let´s keep the stupid-conspiracies flow alive.

:rolleyes: This has become a real "hate-thread".........

#7914 fabr68

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 14:20

Well done, let´s keep the stupid-conspiracies flow alive.


Please don't.

#7915 prty

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 14:28

He was guilty in 2007. As guilty as can be. Only reason he saved his skin was by submitting all material, emails, texts and so on. And the context of this correspondance shows that he wanted to test the stuff that was in Ferrari IP. He had a hefty dialogue with an engineer about the brake balance and the wheel base of "the red car" as he put it.
That is nothing but disgraceful. And since you guys keep bringing up Kimi, its in a completely other league than showing a photographer for standing on your gear with muddy shoes. If you can see the vast difference then its a start.


Oh no, he wasn't. You are mixing the people who knew about the dossier, which was the key element, and the people that knew stuff about Ferrari as paddock regular interchange. Which a lot of insiders always have said before 2007, during 2007 and after 2007 that is something usual in F1. Key McLaren personel knew about the dossier with design drawings, etc, that's why they were fined and deservedly so. Alonso, has not been linked to it no matter how badly you want it.

#7916 cardin

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 21:30

Oh no, he wasn't. You are mixing the people who knew about the dossier, which was the key element, and the people that knew stuff about Ferrari as paddock regular interchange. Which a lot of insiders always have said before 2007, during 2007 and after 2007 that is something usual in F1. Key McLaren personel knew about the dossier with design drawings, etc, that's why they were fined and deservedly so. Alonso, has not been linked to it no matter how badly you want it.


Once again for those living in lala land.

3.3 The McLaren drivers were reminded of their duty as competitors and Super
Licence holders to ensure the fairness and legitimacy of the Formula One World
Championship. Given the importance of establishing the facts and that the
information might not come out any other way, the FIA offered the assurance that
any information made available in response to the letter would not result in any
proceedings against the drivers personally under the International Sporting Code
or the Formula One Regulations. However, the drivers were notified that if it
later came to light that they had withheld any potentially relevant information,
serious consequences could follow.

3.4 All three drivers responded. Mr. Hamilton responded that he had no information
responsive to the FIA’s request. Mr. Alonso and Mr. de la Rosa both submitted e-
mails to the FIA which the WMSC finds highly relevant. Subsequently (at
McLaren’s request) both Mr. Alonso and Mr. de la Rosa made written statements
to the WMSC verifying that these e-mails were sent and received and offering
context and explanations regarding the e-mails. The e-mails show unequivocally
that both Mr. Alonso and Mr. de la Rosa received confidential Ferrari information
via Coughlan; that both drivers knew that this information was confidential
Ferrari information and that both knew that the information was being received by
Coughlan from Stepney.


http://www.fia.com/r...sion_130907.pdf

Edited by cardin, 30 April 2011 - 21:33.


#7917 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 22:16

Oh no, he wasn't. You are mixing the people who knew about the dossier, which was the key element, and the people that knew stuff about Ferrari as paddock regular interchange. Which a lot of insiders always have said before 2007, during 2007 and after 2007 that is something usual in F1. Key McLaren personel knew about the dossier with design drawings, etc, that's why they were fined and deservedly so. Alonso, has not been linked to it no matter how badly you want it.

Im sorry but you are so very wrong. I have read all the transcripts from the trial. Including the emails from and to Alonso himself. And he talks specifically about things in the Ferrari dossier, technical things on the car which he urges the engineers to test as soon as possible. That is unrefutable facts no matter how bad you want it not to be. Here is one example:

Friday, September 14 2007

The FIA issues a statement detailing its reasons behind the sanctions imposed on McLaren. In the statement, the FIA said that emails between the McLaren drivers proved that the British-based team used information leaked from title rivals Ferrari. The FIA statement also said "The emails show unequivocally that both Mr Alonso and Mr de la Rosa received confidential Ferrari information via Mike Coughlan. Both drivers knew that this information was confidential Ferrari information and that both knew that the information was being received by Coughlan from Nigel Stepney"

Source: Transcripts from the trial now posted on Wikipedia. You see that? Un-equi-vocally.
http://en.wikipedia....age_controversy
You will also find that Alonso was even aware of what lap Kimi was pitting in Melbourne. That is severely corrupt behaviour from Alonso any which way you look at it. :down: :down:

Edit: Oops. Started to write and then came back and missed your post, cardin. Oh well. It seems that these facts needs to be hammered home for some people.

Edited by Desdirodeabike, 30 April 2011 - 22:18.


#7918 prty

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 22:29

Im sorry but you are so very wrong. I have read all the transcripts from the trial. Including the emails from and to Alonso himself. And he talks specifically about things in the Ferrari dossier, technical things on the car which he urges the engineers to test as soon as possible. That is unrefutable facts no matter how bad you want it not to be. Here is one example:


Source: Transcripts from the trial now posted on Wikipedia. You see that? Un-equi-vocally.
http://en.wikipedia....age_controversy
You will also find that Alonso was even aware of what lap Kimi was pitting in Melbourne. That is severely corrupt behaviour from Alonso any which way you look at it. :down: :down:

Edit: Oops. Started to write and then came back and missed your post, cardin. Oh well. It seems that these facts needs to be hammered home for some people.


I missed where it talks about knowing the dossier existance. Can you point it to me?

By the way:



:blush:

Edit: Even Lobato knows where some teams are going to stop and repeatedly say that during the transmisions. That, like the "un-equi-vocally" thing you say is still regular occurence in F1, so you have nothing as usual.

Edited by prty, 30 April 2011 - 22:34.


#7919 igoru

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 23:23

Good or bad boy..... it seems Alonso still the boss in F1!

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#7920 Hole

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 02:30

Did Alonso give back the victories he had from the illegal weapon mass damper (WMD)?

Sorry. This thread is really pathetic. If people want to be a fan of Alonso they should IMO accept him as he is and stop pretending that he has no beauty spots. It's like having a girlfriend that has small breasts and pretending they are huge, not only for yourself but you also for everyone you meet. "Those tits are huge" you say, even if she is sunbathing topless and the opposite is clear for everyone to see. Thing is, you love her and should accept the size. Or maybe it is not the tits, maybe she can not cook and you have a dinner party where everybody is staring at disbelief at their plate after their first bite. You can not say that your wife is a great cook and that the food is excellent. You can tell it to her and eat, but you will not fool anyone else.

Alonso has flaws. Kimi (since he is brought up often in his thread) has flaws. Schumi and Vettel have flaws. You have flaws, as have Desdirodeabike. I have flaws. We all also have qualities.

If you like someone you have measured the qualities against the flaws and come to a conclusion. Some flaws might not have been visible in the beginning and you might need to re-evaluate. Like a Swedish sports trainer that I read about. He trained some world champions and was a respected guy. Turned out he (literally) ****ed them all when they were kids.

In a love relationship you either accept the flaws or you deny them. It is only the former relationship that can survive because denial is always defeated by time.

:rolleyes: Just gotta love the need of some of you to act like moral supremacists against the Alonso fan base in particular just to try to make your points more valid or something. It is like some kind of fashion in this forum... And funny how I'd hardly find posts from you like this one I'm quoting in the threads of certain ex-F1 driver despite that people there isn't posting in a different manner than most Alonso fans (or just people that like the driver) do here. I guess some people of course see Alonso as the perfect guy just like some Kimi's fans or Hamilton's fans or Vettel's fans do, but I don't think it's the mainstream of this thread or the Alonso fan base so it would be nice if you showed some respect instead of saying this thread is pathetic.

Let's cut those resorts and get along. :wave: And if you don't like the thread just leave as moderators are saying over and over again.

Said that, I think what most of people defending Alonso has been doing here is not buying the exaggerated and negative image about him portrayed by some people here. Some just love to blow things out of proportion, and as Kimi's fans didn't like when Kimi was portrayed as a lazy drunk and greedy guy that did not care about anything, you'll understand Alonso's fans won't like when the same is done against the Spaniard ;)

Huge difference between this and not wanting to see Alonso's flaws as a driver or human being. Really, we don't need any class of morality, thank you.

Also, and despite that mods have said that this is not a support thread, I don't know what kind of reaction you expect from the people that usually come here happy to share stuff and info about Fernando when certain people have the constant need of bringing in this thread out the same topics over and over and that shouldn't be brought out here. In other words, ignoring warns like this:

There are threads for spygate, for Alonso replacing Kimi, for Singapore '08. Please will posters avoid trolling, baiting, or hijacking the thread.


-----------


Regarding how Alonso's speeches got blown out of proportion I'll always remember when Alonso said "I race alone" when he was in Renault. Of course for certain people it meant he was being ungrateful and disrespectful against his team, when actually he just was saying that he did not have other driver to help him on race as Schumacher had with Barrichello or Massa. He was throwing critizism on other team, not his own one. Agree or disagree with Alonso's statement is understandable but twisting his words as a lot of people did and is doing is not really fair.

---------------------------


pd: sorry for my English, it's not my native tongue.

Edited by AdamKOR, 01 May 2011 - 02:32.


#7921 Kohque

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 04:17

Im sorry but you are so very wrong. I have read all the transcripts from the trial. Including the emails from and to Alonso himself. And he talks specifically about things in the Ferrari dossier, technical things on the car which he urges the engineers to test as soon as possible. That is unrefutable facts no matter how bad you want it not to be. Here is one example:



Source: Transcripts from the trial now posted on Wikipedia. You see that? Un-equi-vocally.
http://en.wikipedia....age_controversy
You will also find that Alonso was even aware of what lap Kimi was pitting in Melbourne. That is severely corrupt behaviour from Alonso any which way you look at it. :down: :down:

Edit: Oops. Started to write and then came back and missed your post, cardin. Oh well. It seems that these facts needs to be hammered home for some people.


Sure, he knew about it, as the e-mails clearly show and people has repeated for the nth time :yawnface: . Let's try with a tedious analogy :rolleyes: :

A guy rob a bank and his son happens to know it, and he doesn't care if his father has robbed a bank (you follow, right?) The father goes to trial and is found guilty of robbing the bank, but he is so beloved by the people in the neighborhood that they can only talk about how GUILTY his son is of knowing about his father and not saying anything to the police. Not only he doesn't say anything, but actually he enjoys the money. But then, when he is called to testify, people blame him for talking and call him a blackmailer and whistleblower :confused: .

I can understand the neighbors would like to see the brat hanged, but what exactly is he guilty of? Not accomplice, in case you are wondering. Alonso didn't help in any way in getting that information.

Leaving aside the big elephant in the room, you could say that using that information is not a commendable attitude, even though is just as common as apple pie in F1 for teams to copy other team designs and for drivers to be very eager to add them to their cars. The difference is that they usually don't possess the whole specs from your rival's car. So the question again is not whether he should have used the information or not. The question is: Should Alonso have blew the whistle when they gave him the information or use it as he did?

The Wonderland scenario is for Alonso to have said: "No, dude, this is wrong. If they want to improve the car, they can do it, but don't let me know" (even though he was already aware of the paper :confused: ). I found quite stupefying that people call him whistleblower and blackmailer, and then complain because he did not blew it when he should and only gave the information only when asked.

So to put your thoughts in order: The reason above is not a reason for you to hate the guy. Rather, your hatred for Alonso makes that an unequivocal reason to reinforce your bile. :) Otherwise, your hatred for Alonso must be nothing compare to the hatred you have for McLaren. Is that the case?  ;)

#7922 HPT

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 06:09

Excellent post.

PS. Your English is perfectly fine :up:

:rolleyes: Just gotta love the need of some of you to act like moral supremacists against the Alonso fan base in particular just to try to make your points more valid or something. It is like some kind of fashion in this forum... And funny how I'd hardly find posts from you like this one I'm quoting in the threads of certain ex-F1 driver despite that people there isn't posting in a different manner than most Alonso fans (or just people that like the driver) do here. I guess some people of course see Alonso as the perfect guy just like some Kimi's fans or Hamilton's fans or Vettel's fans do, but I don't think it's the mainstream of this thread or the Alonso fan base so it would be nice if you showed some respect instead of saying this thread is pathetic.

Let's cut those resorts and get along. :wave: And if you don't like the thread just leave as moderators are saying over and over again.

Said that, I think what most of people defending Alonso has been doing here is not buying the exaggerated and negative image about him portrayed by some people here. Some just love to blow things out of proportion, and as Kimi's fans didn't like when Kimi was portrayed as a lazy drunk and greedy guy that did not care about anything, you'll understand Alonso's fans won't like when the same is done against the Spaniard ;)

Huge difference between this and not wanting to see Alonso's flaws as a driver or human being. Really, we don't need any class of morality, thank you.

Also, and despite that mods have said that this is not a support thread, I don't know what kind of reaction you expect from the people that usually come here happy to share stuff and info about Fernando when certain people have the constant need of bringing in this thread out the same topics over and over and that shouldn't be brought out here. In other words, ignoring warns like this:



-----------


Regarding how Alonso's speeches got blown out of proportion I'll always remember when Alonso said "I race alone" when he was in Renault. Of course for certain people it meant he was being ungrateful and disrespectful against his team, when actually he just was saying that he did not have other driver to help him on race as Schumacher had with Barrichello or Massa. He was throwing critizism on other team, not his own one. Agree or disagree with Alonso's statement is understandable but twisting his words as a lot of people did and is doing is not really fair.

---------------------------


pd: sorry for my English, it's not my native tongue.



#7923 mursuka80

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 06:18

My god! Why cant people let go already? Its 2011 and you are still hammering on about 2007. :stoned:

#7924 puxanando

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 07:00

For me is more important what a driver like Kubica think about Fernando or the children in hospitals, when he come along to make them smile with his magic, than what the Alonso haters do here and in other threads and forums. :wave: I think they don't have any idea about his personality.......
Go fernando Go.....

Edited by puxanando, 01 May 2011 - 07:19.


#7925 YellowHelmet

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 08:31

Once again for those living in lala land.

3.3 The McLaren drivers were reminded of their duty as competitors and Super
Licence holders to ensure the fairness and legitimacy of the Formula One World
Championship. Given the importance of establishing the facts and that the
information might not come out any other way, the FIA offered the assurance that
any information made available in response to the letter would not result in any
proceedings against the drivers personally under the International Sporting Code
or the Formula One Regulations. However, the drivers were notified that if it
later came to light that they had withheld any potentially relevant information,
serious consequences could follow.

3.4 All three drivers responded. Mr. Hamilton responded that he had no information
responsive to the FIA’s request. Mr. Alonso and Mr. de la Rosa both submitted e-
mails to the FIA which the WMSC finds highly relevant. Subsequently (at
McLaren’s request) both Mr. Alonso and Mr. de la Rosa made written statements
to the WMSC verifying that these e-mails were sent and received and offering
context and explanations regarding the e-mails. The e-mails show unequivocally
that both Mr. Alonso and Mr. de la Rosa received confidential Ferrari information
via Coughlan; that both drivers knew that this information was confidential
Ferrari information and that both knew that the information was being received by
Coughlan from Stepney.


http://www.fia.com/r...sion_130907.pdf

so what?
what is the intention of your post?
to emphasize that alonso acted as a team-player within the team which didnt give him the respect, he deserved?
yes alonso acted as a team-player in a team which unfortunately acted in a criminal way.
Nevertheless he showed his loylality.

Edited by YellowHelmet, 01 May 2011 - 08:32.


#7926 pUs

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 08:39

so what?
what is the intention of your post?
to emphasize that alonso acted as a team-player within the team which didnt give him the respect, he deserved?


I can't understand the respect-part. I just can't. For me, respect is something you earn. You're not "given" respect.

#7927 YellowHelmet

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 08:44

I can't understand the respect-part. I just can't. For me, respect is something you earn. You're not "given" respect.

i think he earned the respect with all the help he gave the team.
but
sometimes even if you have earned respect, others can refuse it for whatever reason. so also the respect thing is not just one-sided.

#7928 CookinFlatSix

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 10:59

Fernando is very smart in dealing with the media, he didn't get his Teflonso tag for nothing :D



His antics whilst on holiday on the Portugese island resort of Porto Santos might be another sign that his talents are starting to wane

Quote;
'To the first photographer or camera I see during these days, I will leave the next day, and I will tell the whole world that Porto Santo is a disaster.
Is that OK? Please, leave me alone. If you don't tomorrow I will leave and everyone will know about Porto Santo ok?'.

That attitude upset the Portuguese press who have described Alonso's words as blackmail.

Edited by CookinFlatSix, 01 May 2011 - 11:00.


#7929 Smile17

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 11:17

His antics whilst on holiday on the Portugese island resort of Porto Santos might be another sign that his talents are starting to wane

Quote;
'To the first photographer or camera I see during these days, I will leave the next day, and I will tell the whole world that Porto Santo is a disaster.
Is that OK? Please, leave me alone. If you don't tomorrow I will leave and everyone will know about Porto Santo ok?'.

That attitude upset the Portuguese press who have described Alonso's words as blackmail.


Oh do really have to come up with that again? Nothing new. I've seen celebrity's act worse, when they are confronted with aggressive paparazzi. He was quite calm and nice if you ask me. You shouldn't take this too seriously, but I guess everything can be used for Alonso bashing. I love to see how his comments and handling of situations winds people up, people value his words and handling a bit too much. Especially the haters who are passionate lovers in disguise.


Bye! Gonna watch MotoGP preview.

#7930 undersquare

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 11:35

His antics whilst on holiday on the Portugese island resort of Porto Santos might be another sign that his talents are starting to wane

Quote;
'To the first photographer or camera I see during these days, I will leave the next day, and I will tell the whole world that Porto Santo is a disaster.
Is that OK? Please, leave me alone. If you don't tomorrow I will leave and everyone will know about Porto Santo ok?'.

That attitude upset the Portuguese press who have described Alonso's words as blackmail.


Well yes, that was an exception. Still, our wdc's have to have some aggression in them, otherwise they couldn't get the job done. For me, pap-bashing is all good, more please :lol: .

#7931 Slartibartfast

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 12:17

Sure, he knew about it, as the e-mails clearly show and people has repeated for the nth time :yawnface: . Let's try with a tedious analogy :rolleyes: :

A guy rob a bank and his son happens to know it, and he doesn't care if his father has robbed a bank (you follow, right?) The father goes to trial and is found guilty of robbing the bank, but he is so beloved by the people in the neighborhood that they can only talk about how GUILTY his son is of knowing about his father and not saying anything to the police. Not only he doesn't say anything, but actually he enjoys the money. But then, when he is called to testify, people blame him for talking and call him a blackmailer and whistleblower :confused: .

I can understand the neighbors would like to see the brat hanged, but what exactly is he guilty of? Not accomplice, in case you are wondering. Alonso didn't help in any way in getting that information.

The son is guilty of handling stolen goods. Possibly money laundering as well, although that wouldn't fit the analogy so well.
Your analogy is also missing out some aspects of the son's behaviour; why is he being branded "blackmailer" and "whistleblower"? It won't be because he talked after being called to testify. The neighbours clearly believe that the son used his knowledge of his father's involvement in a bank robbery to try to gain something from his father - something that his father, presumably, would not have given him of his own free will. The neighbours also appear to believe that the police investigated the father (or perhaps re-investigated) as a result of the son informing on him after the alleged blackmail attempt had failed. I'm not saying that the neighbours' beliefs are correct, but those beliefs are the basis for the son being called a blackmailer and a whistleblower.

Leaving aside the big elephant in the room, you could say that using that information is not a commendable attitude, even though is just as common as apple pie in F1 for teams to copy other team designs and for drivers to be very eager to add them to their cars. The difference is that they usually don't possess the whole specs from your rival's car. So the question again is not whether he should have used the information or not. The question is: Should Alonso have blew the whistle when they gave him the information or use it as he did?

The Wonderland scenario is for Alonso to have said: "No, dude, this is wrong. If they want to improve the car, they can do it, but don't let me know" (even though he was already aware of the paper :confused: ). I found quite stupefying that people call him whistleblower and blackmailer, and then complain because he did not blew it when he should and only gave the information only when asked.

So to put your thoughts in order: The reason above is not a reason for you to hate the guy. Rather, your hatred for Alonso makes that an unequivocal reason to reinforce your bile. :) Otherwise, your hatred for Alonso must be nothing compare to the hatred you have for McLaren. Is that the case? ;)

(my bold)
The reason above could be a reason to hate the guy, whether it be Alonso or the son. You have portrayed him as behaving selfishly and with clear callousness, only doing "the right thing" when it was in his own interest. The issue you have correctly highlighted is of whether one can condemn Alonso for using information that he knew was provided by a Ferrari mole while excusing the McLaren team for doing the same.


#7932 Hairpin

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 12:56

:rolleyes: Just gotta love the need of some of you to act like moral supremacists against the Alonso fan base in particular just to try to make your points more valid or something

You did not read the post did you? Maybe you should before you act like a moral supremacist.

Here is an example of how you read:

I think Alonso is quite a lousy cook, specially when it comes to lowlife like seafood. I am not sure about that, because my guesses is not always correct.

Don't even try to deny it.

EDIT: Formatting

Edited by Hairpin, 01 May 2011 - 12:59.


#7933 revmeister

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 13:06

To the moralistic bashers here who can't let a supporter enjoy the contributions of other Alonso fans in peace, could you please provide a list of top F1 drivers who are without flaw, please? Then, perhaps, I could enjoy a nice read without putting up with all the self-righteous crap being spewed in this thread.

I wonder how long the list could be?

Edited by revmeister, 01 May 2011 - 13:10.


#7934 Hairpin

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 13:12

To the moralistic bashers here who can't let a supporter enjoy the contributions of other Alonso fans peace, could you please provide a list of top drivers who are without flaw, please? That way perhaps I could enjoy a nice read without putting up with all the self-righteous crap being spewed in this thread.

I wonder how long the list could be?

You did not read the post either. Apart from that, show me one thread about a driver that is free from bashers. That, was in fact what my post was about. The lack of respect. In was more directed to towards the bashers than towards the fans. But that should of course not keep you from bashing...

#7935 EdwardCullen

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 13:59

Good or bad boy..... it seems Alonso still the boss in F1!

boss? he won his last WDC 5 yrs ago and i dont think he will win this year either

the real boss in F1 now is Lewis and Vettel!

Edited by EdwardCullen, 01 May 2011 - 14:04.


#7936 puxanando

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 15:21

His antics whilst on holiday on the Portugese island resort of Porto Santos might be another sign that his talents are starting to wane

Quote;
'To the first photographer or camera I see during these days, I will leave the next day, and I will tell the whole world that Porto Santo is a disaster.
Is that OK? Please, leave me alone. If you don't tomorrow I will leave and everyone will know about Porto Santo ok?'.

That attitude upset the Portuguese press who have described Alonso's words as blackmail.

:drunk: how poor.......I'm sure you know nothing about the true story..... :cool: I do!

Even more he is 'hated' from the "ANTIS" his real fans will LOVE him!! :cool:

#7937 AlanWake

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 15:34

Whether you love him or hate him, he makes F1 interesting to watch :wave:

#7938 puxanando

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 15:44

Whether you love him or hate him, he makes F1 interesting to watch :wave:

:up: +1

#7939 Birelman

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 16:34

What? People still think Alonso wasn't guilty in 07 when McLaren was excluded for cheating? and Singapore? geez, some people must be really blind. In 07 he got immunity from being a cheat by being a snitch! as happens to some snitches when they make a deal!! Which makes him, not only a cheat, but also a snitch, two forms of the lowest filth you can call a human being, I think that's perfect behavior to presume he knew about Singapore, and probably helped plan it too. I mean, from cheat, to snitch, all he needed was fraud and he'd have a perfect record!!! :rotfl:

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#7940 EdwardCullen

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 16:44

What? People still think Alonso wasn't guilty in 07 when McLaren was excluded for cheating? and Singapore? geez, some people must be really blind. In 07 he got immunity from being a cheat by being a snitch! as happens to some snitches when they make a deal!! Which makes him, not only a cheat, but also a snitch, two forms of the lowest filth you can call a human being, I think that's perfect behavior to presume he knew about Singapore, and probably helped plan it too. I mean, from cheat, to snitch, all he needed was fraud and he'd have a perfect record!!! :rotfl:

+1


#7941 nbhb

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 17:36

What? People still think Alonso wasn't guilty in 07 when McLaren was excluded for cheating? and Singapore? geez, some people must be really blind. In 07 he got immunity from being a cheat by being a snitch! as happens to some snitches when they make a deal!! Which makes him, not only a cheat, but also a snitch, two forms of the lowest filth you can call a human being, I think that's perfect behavior to presume he knew about Singapore, and probably helped plan it too. I mean, from cheat, to snitch, all he needed was fraud and he'd have a perfect record!!! :rotfl:

Why do you think Piquet jr. never said that Alonso knew about it?

#7942 revmeister

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 18:12

You did not read the post either. Apart from that, show me one thread about a driver that is free from bashers. That, was in fact what my post was about. The lack of respect. In was more directed to towards the bashers than towards the fans. But that should of course not keep you from bashing...


Hairpin, I wasn't referring to your post, what made you think I was? I don't think I bashed anybody either.

I find it tiring to keep reading the same negative stuff over and over again. It's same in the other driver threads too. If someone knows of a better place, I'd be happy to check it out.

#7943 Fontainebleau

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 18:42

What? People still think Alonso wasn't guilty in 07 when McLaren was excluded for cheating? and Singapore? geez, some people must be really blind. In 07 he got immunity from being a cheat by being a snitch! as happens to some snitches when they make a deal!! Which makes him, not only a cheat, but also a snitch, two forms of the lowest filth you can call a human being, I think that's perfect behavior to presume he knew about Singapore, and probably helped plan it too. I mean, from cheat, to snitch, all he needed was fraud and he'd have a perfect record!!! :rotfl:

I think that what people think is that, unlike some people here pretend, Alonso was not the guilty party in 2007, but one more of the pieces of the jigsaw. Specifically, Alonso was never related to the infamous 780-pages dossier.

As for you thinking that it is "perfect behaviour" to presume he knew and planned Singapore and then to insult him based on that assumption, it depends of what you define as "perfect behaviour": if what you mean is that you are safe to do so under an anonymous nick in an Internet forum, then you are probably right; if you mean that your behaviour would be acceptable in court, then definitely not; and if you mean that your opinion is obviously the right one because you know better than, say, Piquet or FIA, I don't think you will find many people agreeing with you either.

One question: do I have to assume that to you is "perfect behaviour" to presume Hamilton knew and probably helped plan Spygate? After all, you have the same evidence against him that you have against Alonso in Singapore, that is, that his team was involved in cheating and that he profited from it.

Edited by Fontainebleau, 01 May 2011 - 18:44.


#7944 EdwardCullen

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 18:53

I think that what people think is that, unlike some people here pretend, Alonso was not the guilty party in 2007, but one more of the pieces of the jigsaw. Specifically, Alonso was never related to the infamous 780-pages dossier.

So what do you think he and Pedro was emailing each other?
How to make pasta curry? :lol:

#7945 prty

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 19:27

So what do you think he and Pedro was emailing each other?
How to make pasta curry? :lol:


Not anything dissimilar to what any F1 team email.

#7946 EdwardCullen

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 19:48

So what do you think he and Pedro was emailing each other?
How to make pasta curry? :lol:

Not anything dissimilar to what any F1 team email.

So you imply that all team drivers sent email to their test driver about their rival cars I.P with the full knowledge that it was stolen?? :rolleyes:

Edited by EdwardCullen, 01 May 2011 - 19:49.


#7947 undersquare

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 20:00

So you imply that all team drivers sent email to their test driver about their rival cars I.P with the full knowledge that it was stolen?? :rolleyes:


Every F1 driver would have, every one. All the new righteousness was created after Spring 07.

#7948 Birelman

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 20:09

I think that what people think is that, unlike some people here pretend, Alonso was not the guilty party in 2007, but one more of the pieces of the jigsaw. Specifically, Alonso was never related to the infamous 780-pages dossier.

As for you thinking that it is "perfect behaviour" to presume he knew and planned Singapore and then to insult him based on that assumption, it depends of what you define as "perfect behaviour": if what you mean is that you are safe to do so under an anonymous nick in an Internet forum, then you are probably right; if you mean that your behaviour would be acceptable in court, then definitely not; and if you mean that your opinion is obviously the right one because you know better than, say, Piquet or FIA, I don't think you will find many people agreeing with you either.

One question: do I have to assume that to you is "perfect behaviour" to presume Hamilton knew and probably helped plan Spygate? After all, you have the same evidence against him that you have against Alonso in Singapore, that is, that his team was involved in cheating and that he profited from it.

I could care less if Hamilton was part in spygate, he definitely profited from it and didn't cooperate with the FIA, so, he should have suffered the same fate as the rest of his team, if you ask me.

How did I insult Alonso, by calling him a cheat and snitch? that's a fact jack, he (admittedly) did in fact act as part of spygate, and did in fact get immunity by cooperating with the FIA to nail McLaren to the wall. The only part I'm speculating is Singapore, ONLY because, there's no evidence against him. That really only means much if you're a lawyer, a lawyer thinks like that, it doesn't matter what you know, it only matter what you can prove. But, morals work in a fairly different way, many times a guilty person walks because of insufficient evidence, that still doesn't change the fact that they did it, even if it's not proven beyond reasonable doubt in a court of law. His previous behavior certainly puts him in a type of character that leaves room to believe he is capable and willing to take part in something like crashgate. There's no insult there, just my opinion.

#7949 Claudius

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 20:14

Every F1 driver would have, every one. All the new righteousness was created after Spring 07.


I doubt that very very much.

First of all, you can't speak for all the drivers before 2007. (Last I checked you're not omniscient)
And second, I don't believe that all the drivers before spring 07 would do the same. I'm sure some of them would have declined to participate in what clearly is cheating.



#7950 undersquare

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 20:14

I could care less if Hamilton was part in spygate, he definitely profited from it and didn't cooperate with the FIA, so, he should have suffered the same fate as the rest of his team, if you ask me.

:confused:

link?