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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#8601 nbhb

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 11:16

Also, as a team mate Kovalainen was easily faster than Fisi, is faster than Trulli (even by bigger margin than Alonso ever was) but was slower than Hamilton. Based on that Hamilton is easily faster/better than Alonso, which is actually true as he was already matching/beating Fernando in his rookie year and has of course get better after gaining some experience.

That is, if you believe you can always count team mate cross comparasion gives us the whole truth.

It was nothing between them in 2007 in race pace. Fisichella outqualified Kovalainen more times than vice versa. He had more bad luck than Kovalainen, just that. Looking only at the final table is very misleading.
Later Edit: 9-8 for Fisichela based on Q2 performance.

Edited by nbhb, 24 May 2011 - 12:12.


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#8602 kryziuotis

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 11:20

So then we all agree Hamilton is the fastest one since he was faster than Alonso during his rookie year?

You seem to imply that rookie year is a worst year for a driver. Most often it's correct but not always. The main weakness of Hamilton is that he loses his head when under pressure and starts making silly mistakes. We saw it at the end of 2007 and in every year since. So 2007 was in a way best season for Hamilton - he was driving without any expectations and no real pressure so he showed his best.
And what we get when we put everything together - Hamilton matched Alonso during his best year when Alonso was having one of his worst years in a team who was openly against him. Well comparison is valid and everything is correct.

#8603 Dunder

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 11:35

It was nothing between them in 2007 in race pace. Fisichella outqualified Kovalainen more times than vice versa. He had more bad luck than Kovalainen, just that. Looking only at the final table is very misleading.


It was 9-8 in qualifying in favour of Kova.


#8604 Buttoneer

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 11:35

Kimi discussion ends here please.

There is another thread for Massa v Alonso.

Alonso v Hamilton also has an 'ultimate' thread.

If the off-topic continues, the thread will be closed.

#8605 velgajski1

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 11:46

You seem to imply that rookie year is a worst year for a driver. Most often it's correct but not always. The main weakness of Hamilton is that he loses his head when under pressure and starts making silly mistakes. We saw it at the end of 2007 and in every year since. So 2007 was in a way best season for Hamilton - he was driving without any expectations and no real pressure so he showed his best.
And what we get when we put everything together - Hamilton matched Alonso during his best year when Alonso was having one of his worst years in a team who was openly against him. Well comparison is valid and everything is correct.


I don't see how 2007. was Alonso worst season, I think it was one of his best seasons, almost at level of 2006. albeit in a bit worse car. He made a single big driver error in whole season + had a few bad races, but that is no different than Alonso did in 2005.

His worst one is definitely 2008. and 2010. was also nothing special at best, definitely worse than 2007. 2009 was good, not a bad one, but not a brilliant one either and definitely worse than 2007.

This season he looks good again, but also nothing special, so far at level of 2007.

Even his 2005. season wasn't that much better than 2007., probably he was only better in 2006. than in 2007.

My personal opinion about Hamilton is that he has driven better in 2008. and probably in 2010. than in 2007., but this is for some other discussion.

Edited by velgajski1, 24 May 2011 - 11:55.


#8606 zeph

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 12:09

His worst one is definitely 2008. and 2010. was also nothing special at best, definitely worse than 2007. 2009 was good, not a bad one, but not a brilliant one either and definitely worse than 2007.


Not sure if that is a typo or brainfade? Last year (2010) he was in contention for the title up until the last race, and could have bagged it were it not for a strategic clusterf--k.

'08 and '09 were bad, no doubt.

Edited by zeph, 24 May 2011 - 12:15.


#8607 nbhb

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 12:29

I don't see how 2007. was Alonso worst season, I think it was one of his best seasons, almost at level of 2006. albeit in a bit worse car. He made a single big driver error in whole season + had a few bad races, but that is no different than Alonso did in 2005.

His worst one is definitely 2008. and 2010. was also nothing special at best, definitely worse than 2007. 2009 was good, not a bad one, but not a brilliant one either and definitely worse than 2007.

This season he looks good again, but also nothing special, so far at level of 2007.

Even his 2005. season wasn't that much better than 2007., probably he was only better in 2006. than in 2007.

My personal opinion about Hamilton is that he has driven better in 2008. and probably in 2010. than in 2007., but this is for some other discussion.


I like how you put things to suit your agenda.
In 2007 he made mistakes in Spain and Canada at starts, in Hungary by paying back to his teammate and thus penalized, in Japan. Hardly a 2005 season.
2010 is his second best season. Mistakes comes when you are on the limit and his 2nd half of the season was absolutly brilliant. In 2005 he has clearly the 2 fastest car. Not so much pressure.

#8608 cardin

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 12:42

Also, as a team mate Kovalainen was easily faster than Fisi, is faster than Trulli (even by bigger margin than Alonso ever was) but was slower than Hamilton. Based on that Hamilton is easily faster/better than Alonso, which is actually true as he was already matching/beating Fernando in his rookie year and has of course get better after gaining some experience.

That is, if you believe you can always count team mate cross comparasion gives us the whole truth.


I was going to post that. These people don't understand that that is not how it works. And they want to discuss brain injury...

Edited by cardin, 24 May 2011 - 12:45.


#8609 cardin

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 12:44

True, you cannot always count on every one. For example Trulli is near retirement and totally unmotivated driving a car seconds off the pace, so that is one comparision that I would not use. Kovalainen was not easily faster than Fisichella by the way.


As somebody else already posted. When it proves your point this 'logic' is aplied without any qualyfications. The moment it doesn't work, tons of qualifications are invoked.


#8610 currupipi

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 12:44

just re watched the start of barcelona, that was good, aggresive, hope we can see more like this

#8611 kryziuotis

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 12:48

Even his 2005. season wasn't that much better than 2007., probably he was only better in 2006. than in 2007.

My personal opinion about Hamilton is that he has driven better in 2008. and probably in 2010. than in 2007., but this is for some other discussion.

I see a clear trend there - the better car a driver has the better is your opinion about his capabilities :lol: In fact it's completely the opposite - everybody can look good in a fast car, but really good drivers can put a slow car where it doesn't belong.
And not all driver errors are equal. For example in 2010 Alonso had a lot of errors but most of them were just a calculated risk - when you don't have a fastest car, you have to drive on the limit. And this approach paid off - sometimes it resulted in errors but he made great recovery drives and in fact haven't lost much. But sometimes it resulted in victories against the odds. And only becasue of this approach he was in the championship fight till the last race.
So, taking everything into account, the best years of Alonso were 2006 and 2010. 2008 and 2009 were also good, but he hadn't showed his best in every race because he was out of chapionship fight. 2005 and 2007 were solid years but just at the level a car was capable.

#8612 AlanWake

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 13:37

just re watched the start of barcelona, that was good, aggresive, hope we can see more like this


It looked like if he was driving the R24:

#8613 Fontainebleau

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 13:37

Not sure if that is a typo or brainfade? Last year (2010) he was in contention for the title up until the last race, and could have bagged it were it not for a strategic clusterf--k.

'08 and '09 were bad, no doubt.

I don't think 08 and 09 were that bad; he extracted the most of the car he had. If I am not mistaken, Alonso is on record saying that he had some of his best performances during those years.

#8614 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 13:39

On topic regarding Alonsos speed - to make some kind of equation based on teammates across many seasons and teams is not working either is it? Be reasonable.
I have no problem saying that any of the drivers we have been discussing like Ham, Alo and Kimi are in the among the worlds fastest category. Massa was too. But I have not really seen it after his accident. Thats all Im saying. Brain injuries are fickle things.

just re watched the start of barcelona, that was good, aggresive, hope we can see more like this

Yes, it was. One of the best I have seen. He found a gap and just emptied that KERS completely out. Lucky that Webber didnt do one of his signature chops.

#8615 YellowHelmet

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 13:42

It looked like if he was driving the R24:

thank you for that link :up:
it was a pleasure to watch.

#8616 AlanWake

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 13:48

Alonso's best years -in terms of driving- in order:

1.2006
2.2010
3.2005
4.2007
5.2003
6.2008
7.2009
8.2004

IMHO,

#8617 SCUDmissile

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 13:54

Now do you think Alonso will bring someone in a la Schu? maybe Pat symonds?

maybe this is why he signed the contract, that something big will be happening.

#8618 Disgrace

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 13:55

Even if the second half of 2010 was impressive from Alonso, his mistakes throughout the season can't make 2010 his second best season. He dropped it in Spa and Monaco practice, that's already one more race-changing error than 2005 and that year he won the title. 2006 was actually flawless though, without a single race-ending error contrasting to Schumachers two (Australia, Hungary).

#8619 kenny

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 13:59

Now do you think Alonso will bring someone in a la Schu? maybe Pat symonds?

maybe this is why he signed the contract, that something big will be happening.

Flavio??

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#8620 SCUDmissile

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 14:04

Flavio??

no Stefano is safe

#8621 AlanWake

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 14:21

Even if the second half of 2010 was impressive from Alonso, his mistakes throughout the season can't make 2010 his second best season. He dropped it in Spa and Monaco practice, that's already one more race-changing error than 2005 and that year he won the title. 2006 was actually flawless though, without a single race-ending error contrasting to Schumachers two (Australia, Hungary).


Well, I put 2010 instead of 2005 due to his great and unexpected comeback, his brilliant win in Singapore, and because unlike in 2005 -when he simply had to manage his WDC lead- he had to PUSH the car to its limits. And yes, he made mistakes that he shouldn't but it is understandable to make more mistakes when your car is slower AND you need to catch up like in 2010. I just find it interesting that when the pressure was on, he started to drive much better and make lesser mistakes.

Edited by AlanWake, 24 May 2011 - 14:23.


#8622 Smile17

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 14:23

Even if the second half of 2010 was impressive from Alonso, his mistakes throughout the season can't make 2010 his second best season. He dropped it in Spa and Monaco practice, that's already one more race-changing error than 2005 and that year he won the title. 2006 was actually flawless though, without a single race-ending error contrasting to Schumachers two (Australia, Hungary).


A weaker car leads to mistakes, simple as that. He never had to face a team so superior as RedBull in 2010. The situation he faced in 05/06 was pretty easy compared to that.

#8623 velgajski1

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 14:27

I see a clear trend there - the better car a driver has the better is your opinion about his capabilities :lol: In fact it's completely the opposite - everybody can look good in a fast car, but really good drivers can put a slow car where it doesn't belong.
And not all driver errors are equal. For example in 2010 Alonso had a lot of errors but most of them were just a calculated risk - when you don't have a fastest car, you have to drive on the limit. And this approach paid off - sometimes it resulted in errors but he made great recovery drives and in fact haven't lost much. But sometimes it resulted in victories against the odds. And only becasue of this approach he was in the championship fight till the last race.
So, taking everything into account, the best years of Alonso were 2006 and 2010. 2008 and 2009 were also good, but he hadn't showed his best in every race because he was out of chapionship fight. 2005 and 2007 were solid years but just at the level a car was capable.


Not quite. Alonso had a great car in 2010. and pretty good car in 2008. and I don't find these seasons too good. In both seasons he made loads of mistakes in first half.

On the other hand I thought he was pretty good in 2009. which is one his worst seasons given the results.

For me:
1. 2006., without a doubt, almost perfect season, I think he probably won in an inferior car that one
2. 2005. not as good as 2006., but only one big error and WDC (+ 1 or 2 small errors)
3. 2007. two points apart from WDC against a fierce teammate, lost some ground in first half of season, but recovered fantastically later. No one since mounted as strong challenge to Lewis Hamilton as Alonso in 2007.

Rest of the seasons are mixed, some unusual errors even in great cars (2008., 2010.). Maybe 2009. stands out a bit as he picked up some points in what really was a dog of a car.

Many people praise his 2008. and 2010., but the fact stands that in both of these seasons he made loads of mistakes in the season opening, something we didn't quite see in 2005.-2007.

Now as people are accusing me of having agenda, I'd like to hear explanation as to why was 2007. worst Alonso season, and how is it comparably worse than 2008./2010/2004./2003.

Edited by velgajski1, 24 May 2011 - 14:31.


#8624 cardin

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 15:06

A weaker car leads to mistakes, simple as that. He never had to face a team so superior as RedBull in 2010. The situation he faced in 05/06 was pretty easy compared to that.

So much crap to read. So little time.

#8625 kryziuotis

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 15:13

Not quite. Alonso had a great car in 2010. and pretty good car in 2008. and I don't find these seasons too good. In both seasons he made loads of mistakes in first half.

Wow, a good car in 2008? You really live in some alternate reality :) And a great car in 2010? It was only second/third fastest. If this quantifies as a great car I would say that Hamilton had a fantastic car for the whole F1 career.

And you really haven't paid attention what I said about mistakes. The number of mistakes says nothing by itself. You have to take into account how and when they were made. Sometimes drivers are consciously pushing too hard, because they have nothing to lose. And sometimes they just make a mistake out of the blue when all they needed was just to complete the race distance without any incidents. For example in 2005 Alonso made only one mistake, but it was worst of the kind - he was leading the championship, leading the race, but just binned it into the wall. I can't remember similar mistakes since, clearly not in 2008 or 2010 season.

#8626 kosmos

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 15:26

Now do you think Alonso will bring someone in a la Schu? maybe Pat symonds?

maybe this is why he signed the contract, that something big will be happening.



Pat?, no chance in hell, they don't like each other.

#8627 velgajski1

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 15:45

Wow, a good car in 2008? You really live in some alternate reality :)


Car capable of winning races and scoring podiums is not a good car? I wonder what would Toyota say about that. Talking about alternate reality....


#8628 AlanWake

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 15:47

Pat?, no chance in hell, they don't like each other.


+1

They respected each other, but their relationship was always distant.

A couple of years ago, Fernando was asked by the Spanish TV if he had any friends in the paddock and he named 2 drivers (Trulli and Fisichella) and 2 engineers, Remi Taffin (Renault Sport F1 track operations manager) and Paul Monaghan (his race engineer in 2003-2004, currently head of engineering at Red Bull Racing).

#8629 SCUDmissile

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 15:48

+1

They respected each other, but their relationship was always distant.

A couple of years ago, Fernando was asked by the Spanish TV if he had any friends in the paddock and he named 2 drivers (Trulli and Fisichella) and 2 engineers, Remi Taffin (Renault Sport F1 track operations manager) and Paul Monaghan (his race engineer in 2003-2004, currently head of engineering at Red Bull Racing).

im sure he has made more now though. :kiss: :up:

#8630 as65p

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 15:58

Car capable of winning races and scoring podiums is not a good car? I wonder what would Toyota say about that. Talking about alternate reality....


You're really something... sometimes. :drunk:

I still recall you describing the 2010 McLaren as a dog. But the 2008 Renault was a good car, eh?

Sure.... :p

Now if you'd be willing to argue seriously for a second, Renaults 2008 was very much like McLarens 2009, The car wasn't anywhere near "good" for at least half of the season, but in the last third they managed to develope it into something decent.

But to call it overall a good car is still :drunk:

#8631 currupipi

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 16:16

It looked like if he was driving the R24:


those were the days, defit reminded me last sunday of those times, hope we see more of these this year


#8632 velgajski1

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 16:23

You're really something... sometimes. :drunk:

I still recall you describing the 2010 McLaren as a dog. But the 2008 Renault was a good car, eh?

Sure.... :p

Now if you'd be willing to argue seriously for a second, Renaults 2008 was very much like McLarens 2009, The car wasn't anywhere near "good" for at least half of the season, but in the last third they managed to develope it into something decent.

But to call it overall a good car is still :drunk:


It all depends on a context. McLaren 2010. wasn't a dog, its different when you watch it from a one year distance, and I'm sure that if I called it dog it was in relation to a particular track, not overall - I said numerous times that McLaren 2010 was a WDC capable car, so I guess I don't have to explain that a WDC capable car is a great car.

And I agree that Renault 2008. is similar to McLaren 2009., still that doesn't make Lewis 2009. season or Alonso 2008. season something special, in spite of both drivers having a spectacular performance or two in the season. In my opinion, both drivers did much better in some other seasons.

Edited by velgajski1, 24 May 2011 - 16:25.


#8633 kryziuotis

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 16:30

Car capable of winning races and scoring podiums is not a good car? I wonder what would Toyota say about that. Talking about alternate reality....

What a logic :) Yes, Alonso took some podiums and even won races, so it must be a car? :lol: Tell me a single race where Renault had the pace to challenge for the win? It took some unusual circumstances and superb driving to get such results - thats why it was a good year for Alonso.

#8634 Buttoneer

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 16:30

Still having to delete posts.

Not Kimi, not Kimi, not Kimi!

#8635 puxanando

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 16:34

Not Kimi, not Kimi, not Kimi!

:up:

#8636 velgajski1

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 16:37

What a logic :) Yes, Alonso took some podiums and even won races, so it must be a car? :lol: Tell me a single race where Renault had the pace to challenge for the win? It took some unusual circumstances and superb driving to get such results - thats why it was a good year for Alonso.


Given the circumstances Alonso should have won Canada (or at least challenge BMW's for a win, he had the pace), but he binned it instead.

Given that Piquet scored 2nd place in Hockenheim, I'm sure that Alonso at his best would probably be better than Piquet at his best and would manage to bring the car to a win. That's 4 possible victories for Alonso in 2008.

You cannot put all the bad stuff on car and all the good stuff on driver, just doesn't work like that.

Edited by velgajski1, 24 May 2011 - 16:38.


#8637 ForzaGTR

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 16:59

He can't remeber anything from the accident, I don't think you can get PTSP that way. His main problem is Alonso who is much better driver.


How do you know he can't remember anything? Sure he may have said that at one time, but who knows what is really going through his head? Maybe he is subconsciously holding back. He knows he had the crash and nearly died.

But he is definitely not the same since his crash, this is an opinion shared by many experts too.

Alonso fans seem scared to admit it, it's like they're insecure, they are worried people think the only reason Alonso beats Massa is because he has lost his edge after the crash. The truth is most people, including me think that Alonso would beat Massa with or without the crash, just that the margin is slightly bigger because of the crash.

Saying Massa is driving as good as he ever was is plain stupidity. He clearly has lost something.

#8638 as65p

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 17:24

Given the circumstances Alonso should have won Canada (or at least challenge BMW's for a win, he had the pace), but he binned it instead.

Given that Piquet scored 2nd place in Hockenheim, I'm sure that Alonso at his best would probably be better than Piquet at his best and would manage to bring the car to a win.


Sorry but that proves once again you're talking bollocks. Did you even remember Hockenheim 2008 (other than Hamilton won of course)? If you even half recalled the true performance of Renault at that venue, or how Piquet ended up in 2nd, you'd recognize that asking for Alonso to win this race is beyond hilarious.

#8639 kurski

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 17:32

Alonso's best years -in terms of driving- in order:

5.2003
6.2008
7.2009
8.2004

IMHO,


I think Alonso had a better 2008 season than in 2003 and 2009 was worse than 2004 season.


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#8640 e34

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 17:34

Given the circumstances Alonso should have won Canada (or at least challenge BMW's for a win, he had the pace), but he binned it instead.

Given that Piquet scored 2nd place in Hockenheim, I'm sure that Alonso at his best would probably be better than Piquet at his best and would manage to bring the car to a win. That's 4 possible victories for Alonso in 2008.

You cannot put all the bad stuff on car and all the good stuff on driver, just doesn't work like that.


Piquet fluked into 2nd place in Hockenheim. He was nowhere, but SC played in his favour. Canada 2008 I didn't remember, but after a quick check-up, it was one of the examples of overdriving by Alonso. He could have won, but, not by merits of the car, but due to attrition.

Overall, R28 was quite bad at the beginning of the year, and Alonso overdrove it, causing avoidable mistakes, a bit like last year, only that in 2008 those mistakes were more costly pointwise (and the car was way worse than F10).

In my opinion, Alonso overdrove in the first part of 2007, 2008 and 2010, and that was the source of his problems those years. Well, realistically, 2008 he had no car for anything until the last part of the season, where both the car and his driving improved quite a lot.

In 2007 Hamilton got under his skin and he made silly mistakes in Barcelona and Canada (that was probably his worst race ever). He just could not accept that Hamilton sometimes could be faster than him, and that was his undoing. Ron Dennis, instead of reigning in the quarrell between his two drivers allowed them to put him between a rock and a hard place, and eventually he chose Hamilton. From then on, Alonso's character kicked in and he focused, laser-like, into getting as many points as possible. The rest we know.

Last year it was, IMO, something similar. He overdrove the car at the beginning, and when everything seemed lost, his stubborness kicked in again, and he finished the season on a very high note.

In evaluating whether those three seasons are bad or good, the key factor probably is deciding what should carry more weight: getting into troubles during the first part of the season, or being able to recover from those during the second.

#8641 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 17:34

Given the circumstances Alonso should have won Canada (or at least challenge BMW's for a win, he had the pace), but he binned it instead.

Given that Piquet scored 2nd place in Hockenheim, I'm sure that Alonso at his best would probably be better than Piquet at his best and would manage to bring the car to a win. That's 4 possible victories for Alonso in 2008.

You cannot put all the bad stuff on car and all the good stuff on driver, just doesn't work like that.


Rubbish!! Perhaps you didn't watch Canada '08? Heidfeld was on for the win, with Kubica and Alonso behind who hadn't pitted. He allowed Kubica past after team orders (which was a perfectly legit decision, quite why it didn't receive the same dramatics as Hockenheim '10 I don't know, oh actually I do, Alonso wasn't involved) and Alonso was set for a low points finish at best.

Hockenheim is even more rubbish again, all that took was some good SC timing for Piquet!

#8642 velgajski1

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 17:39

Sorry but that proves once again you're talking bollocks. Did you even remember Hockenheim 2008 (other than Hamilton won of course)? If you even half recalled the true performance of Renault at that venue, or how Piquet ended up in 2nd, you'd recognize that asking for Alonso to win this race is beyond hilarious.


You mean true performace of Renault or true performance of Alonso? Proof that Piquet had pace is that he was comfortably able to cruise and bring the 2nd place home in front of Massa. Yes, he was a bit lucky with SC, but after restart he looked faster than all but Hamilton.

#8643 AlanWake

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 17:40

I think Alonso had a better 2008 season than in 2003 and 2009 was worse than 2004 season.


Probably you are right :up:

#8644 Birelman

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 18:07

I would agree with those saying that Massa is performing at his 2007-8 level now and that the only difference is Ferrari car being way slower now than back then.

Massa is the only yardstick we have and I see no reason why wouldn't it be reliable. The difference between Kimi-Massa and Alonso-Massa relative speeds are most logically explained that way. Before this season begun, many predicted Massa would have his alleged tyre diffuculties solved. However, the gap to Alonso, if anything, got larger. No, the tyres are not an excuse and it goes equally for Kimi, Massa and Alonso.

Why is Kimi-Bob being brought up in a discussion about Massa and Alonso? We're talking about Massa, not Raikkonen, just by keeping an eye on Massa you can tell he's not driving up to his own standards, regardless where he stands relative to Alonso. You can't judge driver talent simply by looking at his teammate, sure, you can use that into the equation to validate whatever you scouted about the driver, but it should not be used as the be all end all of driver talent. You have to look at what they do in the car, their body language in the car, the car's body language, how the car handles underneath him. Just looking at him this weekend I noticed he had a massive entry understeer and the car would just not rotate, now, that might be his preference, and it might even be what he's finding to be the fastest way around the track in the current F1 regs, but I have never sen the car behave like that under him, or him driving in the way I saw him, that's just a quick glance from the top of my head, if we analize him further, we can see a lot more. He used to be a pretty good driver, but, right now, he's not even looking mediocre, without even talking about how he looks relative to Alonso, that's a whole other can of worms. So, to you, it might seem that it's only a perception relative to his teammate, but I see a lot more, I don't know what's going on with him, tires, accident, lack of interest, whatever, he's just not driving well.

Edited by Birelman, 24 May 2011 - 18:09.


#8645 Disgrace

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 18:17

... 2009 was worse than 2004 season.


A year he got pole in a turd of a Renault was worse than when he was beaten fair and square by Trulli as a team-mate (in the races Trulli was still in a Renault)? :lol:

A weaker car leads to mistakes, simple as that.


Nonsense. Trying too hard leads to mistakes, simple as that (actually it isn't).

#8646 kurski

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 18:32

A year he got pole in a turd of a Renault was worse than when he was beaten fair and square by Trulli as a team-mate (in the races Trulli was still in a Renault)? :lol:


Alonso drove a good 2004 season, although, Trulli had the better of their common points of time, but Briatore knew that Alonso has the future promise so he invested in Spanish. Trulli joined his friend Gascoyne Toyota team which was good for his decision after Flavio had landed with the manager of the contract.

#8647 Birelman

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 18:37

Alonso drove a good 2004 season, although, Trulli had the better of their common points of time, but Briatore knew that Alonso has the future promise so he invested in Spanish. Trulli joined his friend Gascoyne Toyota team which was good for his decision after Flavio had landed with the manager of the contract.

That's a solid, assessment. How come that only works for Fernando, I wonder?

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree, I just wonder why it's not applicable elsewhere.

#8648 kryziuotis

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 19:12

Given the circumstances Alonso should have won Canada (or at least challenge BMW's for a win, he had the pace), but he binned it instead.

Given that Piquet scored 2nd place in Hockenheim, I'm sure that Alonso at his best would probably be better than Piquet at his best and would manage to bring the car to a win. That's 4 possible victories for Alonso in 2008.

Did you really read the question? Both of these results were due to the circumstances and not the pace of the car. In Canada 2008 Hamilton drove into the back of Raikkonen eliminating both of them. And BMW still were faster. And in Hockenheim Piqet was second only because of safety car. He couldn't even get out of Q1 in qualifying and you are saying that the car had the pace to win the race! Wow, you really are desperate!


#8649 Smile17

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 19:17

That's a solid, assessment. How come that only works for Fernando, I wonder?

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree, I just wonder why it's not applicable elsewhere.


It's all about the X-Factor

#8650 Birelman

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 19:31

It's all about the X-Factor

I know about the X-factor, I also know other drivers with it that some of Alonso's fans tend to dismiss on a similar note.