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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#8801 elusivef1

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 06:19

No it's OK and I quite agree with you. But you have to remember that Fernando is pretty much the finished product and Sebastian is at the very beginning of his career.

Fernando has seen it all, took on Schumacher won in not the fastest car and drove fantastic and uncompetitive machinery for 4 different teams. We've seen Fernando in all situations and he's a known quantity.
Sebastian has a few more years to grow, to score some victories where he takes full credit and less so the car and to build some heroic drives like you mentioned Fernando has.

I think Seb is capable of that and we're lucky to see two of these great talents fight, maybe one day together in the same team.
One can dream can't we, Vettel and Alonso 6 world titles between them in a 2014 Ferrari. :cool:


Renault were the fastest car at the begginning. Alonso made it boring as he was only happy with coming 2nd place and not trying to go for wins. He did not beat MS. Infact he got hammered near the end of 2006.

The 2005 season for Ferrari was a miss. Tyres were appalling.

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#8802 puxanando

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 06:21

Video from yesterday's match:


:love: Thank you so much....

#8803 broooz

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 06:42

Renault were the fastest car at the begginning. Alonso made it boring as he was only happy with coming 2nd place and not trying to go for wins. He did not beat MS. Infact he got hammered near the end of 2006.

The 2005 season for Ferrari was a miss. Tyres were appalling.

Fernando played it as he should to reach the goal - the WDC. It's the best way.
About beating MS....Alonso/Renault beat MS/Ferrari, that's all that counts. Of course, MS was heavily handicapped with the tyres in 2005 but it's a part of the game.
Besides, ferrari was faster in the second half of 2006 and Mclaren was faster in 2005.

Edited by broooz, 01 June 2011 - 06:55.


#8804 topical

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 09:09

Renault were the fastest car at the begginning. Alonso made it boring as he was only happy with coming 2nd place and not trying to go for wins. He did not beat MS. Infact he got hammered near the end of 2006.

The 2005 season for Ferrari was a miss. Tyres were appalling.


And Schumacher got 'hammered' by Alonso in the first 9 races of 2006. Go back and look at the results. It was then the FIA stepped in to ensure the title race would be closer.

2005 Ferrari had tyre problems. Big deal. The rest of the grid had tyre problems in 2004 while Ferrari had an almost exclusive supplier. Swings and roundabouts.


#8805 Mackey

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 16:12

I don´t know if it´s been posted, but:
Fernando Alonso + Ferrari 458 Italia = :cool: :cool:

http://www.youtube.c...embedded#at=179

Edited by Mackey, 01 June 2011 - 16:12.


#8806 kosmos

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 08:26

Gene talking about Fernando and equal treatment in Ferrari.

"I cannot judge what he did in his time at Renault and McLaren but I have worked with World Champions Schumacher, Villeneuve and Raikkonen and Fernando is the one who impresses me the most," said Gene.


More here:


http://www.f1sa.com/...c...&Itemid=157

#8807 broooz

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 08:29

Gene talking about Fernando and equal treatment in Ferrari.



More here:


http://www.f1sa.com/...c...&Itemid=157

:up:

I would say that it's plain obvious to see that Alonso is on a completely different level from Räikkönen. And that's good for Ferrari.

#8808 YellowHelmet

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 08:45

Gene talking about Fernando and equal treatment in Ferrari.



More here:


http://www.f1sa.com/...c...&Itemid=157

:up:
thx mate for that  ;)

#8809 AlainProstX

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 09:04

http://www.motorspor...ite-chance.html


hear a interview with Grosjean in german. He talks about Alonso too, he rates his work with the engineers very high.

#8810 BuzzingHornet

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 09:11

Just IMHO but Alonso is the complete driver. If you had to bet your granny's life on one driver finishing the race on the podium, which driver would you bet on? In any conditions he can take his car to the limit and he makes very very few mistakes.

#8811 zeph

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 10:39

Just IMHO but Alonso is the complete driver. If you had to bet your granny's life on one driver finishing the race on the podium, which driver would you bet on? In any conditions he can take his car to the limit and he makes very very few mistakes.


While this is true when he's in the groove, he's had his share of brain farts, too. He had some dumb rookie mistakes last year. But when he is on top of things, he's damn near perfect.

#8812 metz

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 13:27

However if anyone is suggesting that alonso isnt in the top 3 then they need their head examined.

I'd say there are at least 6 drivers that would be in the top 3... ;)

#8813 prty

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 15:56

From Marc Gené interview in El Mundo:

Marc Gene has refuted suggestions that Fernando Alonso gets preferential equipment at Ferrari, saying Alonso's results are better because he is better.

This year's Championship has again seen Alonso hold the advantage over the Brazilian with 69 points to Massa's 24. The Spaniard has also outqualified his team-mate in all six grands prix.

However, Gene, who is Ferrari's test driver, insists this has nothing to do with Alonso getting better equipment. Rather, it's because the Spaniard is just better.

"I can confirm 100 percent that the two, both Felipe and Fernando, have the same material at their disposal," he told Spanish newspaper El Mundo.

"If Fernando's results are better, it's because he's at a higher level."
However, it's not just Massa who Gene believes Alonso's towers over.

"I have worked with World Champions like Michael Schumacher, Villeneuve and Raikkonen - and Fernando is the one that impressed me most," said the Spaniard.

"Before he came to Ferrari, I had great expectations of him. Now that I've seen and observed and worked with him, I can say that my expectations have been exceeded."

But while Alonso may be ahead in the Ferrari team-mate battle, it's rivals Red Bull Racing who are ahead out on track. Gene, though, reckons the Scuderia can and will fight back.

"It is true that the gap with Red Bull is significant even if there are still many races to complete. But no deficit is insurmountable, especially for a team like Ferrari."



#8814 DLaw

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 16:40

From Marc Gené interview in El Mundo:



Without a doubt. :up:

#8815 Mr j

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 17:55

:up:

I would say that it's plain obvious to see that Alonso is on a completely different level from Räikkönen. And that's good for Ferrari.


You forgot your usual mantra that you have in every post, which is that Alonso is the best driver in the world, just reminding you so you don't make the same mistake again.


#8816 igoru

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 18:10

You forgot your usual mantra that you have in every post, which is that Alonso is the best driver in the world, just reminding you so you don't make the same mistake again.

No need to repeat every time......everybody knows that :)

#8817 Anssi

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 18:15

So why did he lose to a rookie then? Should you not be saying Lewis Hamilton is the best driver in the world, because if you don't, then Alonso would have lost to someone who is not the best which would be a bigger shame. Say, if Lewis would be something like the 5th-best driver in the world, Alonso would have to be 6th or lower...

...this really should be very simple, as we know these team-mate comparisons and cross-comparisons are always 100 % reliable.

#8818 Mr j

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 18:15

No need to repeat every time......everybody knows that :)


But why suddenly change something that you have always done.

And I do understand sarcasm and obviously you do also but what about broooz?

Edited by Mr j, 02 June 2011 - 18:19.


#8819 broooz

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 18:29

You forgot your usual mantra that you have in every post, which is that Alonso is the best driver in the world, just reminding you so you don't make the same mistake again.

Well, yes he is! :-) Hamilton and Vettel are very close, though.
Schumacher of today is simply too old - but I would say that Schumacher in his prime was better, a tiny little bit better, than any of his successors. It's not a great pleasure watching him driving the way he does now but if it makes him happy, why not?

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#8820 broooz

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 18:32

So why did he lose to a rookie then? Should you not be saying Lewis Hamilton is the best driver in the world, because if you don't, then Alonso would have lost to someone who is not the best which would be a bigger shame. Say, if Lewis would be something like the 5th-best driver in the world, Alonso would have to be 6th or lower...

...this really should be very simple, as we know these team-mate comparisons and cross-comparisons are always 100 % reliable.

Everybody loses on occasion. He at least lost with the same number of points and wins in a new team that turned hostile towards him.
I would dare to say that Alonso performed excellently in 2007. Most other drivers would have fared way worse.

#8821 igoru

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 18:45

So why did he lose to a rookie then? Should you not be saying Lewis Hamilton is the best driver in the world, because if you don't, then Alonso would have lost to someone who is not the best which would be a bigger shame. Say, if Lewis would be something like the 5th-best driver in the world, Alonso would have to be 6th or lower...

...this really should be very simple, as we know these team-mate comparisons and cross-comparisons are always 100 % reliable.

He did not lose anything. It was 108 for both, despite the fact that he competed against the whole Mclaren team. And Hamilton had lot more experiences with Bridgestones than Fred. Who was rookie in fact? Fantastic season for Fred!!!

Bring Lewis in Ferrari where no Ron Dennis.....and you ll se who Fred is...

F1 fun

#8822 Nitropower

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 18:50

So why did he lose to a rookie then? Should you not be saying Lewis Hamilton is the best driver in the world, because if you don't, then Alonso would have lost to someone who is not the best which would be a bigger shame. Say, if Lewis would be something like the 5th-best driver in the world, Alonso would have to be 6th or lower...

...this really should be very simple, as we know these team-mate comparisons and cross-comparisons are always 100 % reliable.


You hardcore Lewis fans are boring, really. So Jacques Villeneuve is better than Michael Schumacher because he beat him in 1997. Damon Hill too. What a well ellaborated logic. As simple as a 10 year old fanboy. By the end of the year Vettel will be also a better driver than Lewis because he will be 2 times WDC. Oooooh they need to be in the same car. Well who's better then, Kimi or Massa?




#8823 showtime

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 18:52

There's already an Alonso vs. Hamilton thread. Just saying...

#8824 DarthWillie

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 18:55

So why did he lose to a rookie then? Should you not be saying Lewis Hamilton is the best driver in the world, because if you don't, then Alonso would have lost to someone who is not the best which would be a bigger shame. Say, if Lewis would be something like the 5th-best driver in the world, Alonso would have to be 6th or lower...

...this really should be very simple, as we know these team-mate comparisons and cross-comparisons are always 100 % reliable.


We all know Rosberg is the best driver ever, because he is beating Schumacher. And we know situations and people never change, so the 2004 Schumi is 100% exactly the same driver as he is in 2011 and the circumstances in the Ferrari 2004 team are 100% exact the same as in the Mercedes 2011 team. Ah, how easy life is.

Don't know about the you guys but we are very lucky to see drivers like Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel race each other, I rather enjoy that than these pointless discussions about what one driver did 4 years ago. And I trust Gene a bit more than most posters here, although I do believe he might be overdoing it a bit for a Spanish newspaper.

#8825 Anssi

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 18:57

You hardcore Lewis fans are boring, really. So Jacques Villeneuve is better than Michael Schumacher because he beat him in 1997. Damon Hill too. What a well ellaborated logic. As simple as a 10 year old fanboy. By the end of the year Vettel will be also a better driver than Lewis because he will be 2 times WDC. Oooooh they need to be in the same car. Well who's better then, Kimi or Massa?



Thank you.

#8826 broooz

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 19:01

You hardcore Lewis fans are boring, really. So Jacques Villeneuve is better than Michael Schumacher because he beat him in 1997. Damon Hill too. What a well ellaborated logic. As simple as a 10 year old fanboy. By the end of the year Vettel will be also a better driver than Lewis because he will be 2 times WDC. Oooooh they need to be in the same car. Well who's better then, Kimi or Massa?

:up:

I have reached the conclusion that most of the 'Alonso lost to Hamilton' attacks have a hidden agenda of making Kimi look better in the light of the late 2009 events in Ferrari.

Hamilton is a great driver and a WDC. Vettel is a great driver and a WDC. Alonso is a great driver and a WDC. Button is not far behind. It's not a shame for any of those drivers to get beaten by another.

Edited by broooz, 02 June 2011 - 19:03.


#8827 Anssi

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 19:03

The official results seem to say that Alonso indeed lost to Hamilton in 2007. Do you have some other results that you are reading? I think we can argue all day long but in the end we only have the official results published by the FIA.

People are using team-mate comparisons to prove that Alonso is the best driver in F1. But then team-mate comparisons are not allowed to be used to make a point that Alonso may in fact not be the best. You can't do both and not look like hypocrites.

As far as I know he may or may not be the best, but I can't agree with the logic some of you people are using to prove he's the best.

Edited by Anssi, 02 June 2011 - 19:12.


#8828 broooz

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 19:07

The official results seem to say that Alonso indeed lost to Hamilton in 2007. Do you have some other results that you are reading? I think we can argue all day long but in the end we only have the official results published by the FIA.

He lost, so what? Name the driver who had never lost.

#8829 toxicfusion

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 19:20

The official results seem to say that Alonso indeed lost to Hamilton in 2007. Do you have some other results that you are reading? I think we can argue all day long but in the end we only have the official results published by the FIA.


I would question who has become the better driver since 2007, Fernando has been repeatedly touted as the best all round driver in the sport currently. Will Hamilton or Vettel take that from him? maybe but based on what we see right now it is difficult to see either of them doing so, don't get me wrong both are exceptional talents but their weaknesses (or question marks) are strategy or wheel to wheel combat.

On the track Fernando doesn't have those issues, he is a jack of all trades, he'll never be out and out the fastest but he'll be close. His biggest issue is being challenged from within, he hasn't been since 2007 so we don't know if he would be better prepared for it. Will Ferrari ever do it? they might do I have no idea, it'll be a discussion for when it does.

The Alonso of 2007 and 2011 are very different, how happy and relaxed he is just finishing on the podium for Ferrari this year has illustrated that. I can't remember him ever looking that happy finishing 2nd or 3rd before.

Edited by toxicfusion, 02 June 2011 - 19:21.


#8830 Hole

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 19:39

So why did he lose to a rookie then? Should you not be saying Lewis Hamilton is the best driver in the world, because if you don't, then Alonso would have lost to someone who is not the best which would be a bigger shame. Say, if Lewis would be something like the 5th-best driver in the world, Alonso would have to be 6th or lower...

...this really should be very simple, as we know these team-mate comparisons and cross-comparisons are always 100 % reliable.


Here we go again, 2007 and some phalacies. I suggest you to take into consideration the circumstances, as you usually guys did when Massa used to beat your Kimi. :wave:
Back then btw you guys didn't seem to be very keen on saying that team-mate comparisions were 100% reliable.

I would question who has become the better driver since 2007, Fernando has been repeatedly touted as the best all round driver in the sport currently. Will Hamilton or Vettel take that from him? maybe but based on what we see right now it is difficult to see either of them doing so, don't get me wrong both are exceptional talents but their weaknesses (or question marks) are strategy or wheel to wheel combat.

On the track Fernando doesn't have those issues, he is a jack of all trades, he'll never be out and out the fastest but he'll be close. His biggest issue is being challenged from within, he hasn't been since 2007 so we don't know if he would be better prepared for it. Will Ferrari ever do it? they might do I have no idea, it'll be a discussion for when it does.

The Alonso of 2007 and 2011 are very different, how happy and relaxed he is just finishing on the podium for Ferrari this year has illustrated that. I can't remember him ever looking that happy finishing 2nd or 3rd before.



Even in 2007, It is just me or Alonso did better than Hamilton in the second half? Those are also numbers one could take from the official FIA numbers. Also numbers say ALonso is a 2xWDC.

And something someone who has watched F1 for a long time should know is that being a rookie could mean a lot, or could be irrelevant.

Edited by AdamKOR, 02 June 2011 - 19:51.


#8831 ferrarijon123

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 19:41

The official results seem to say that Alonso indeed lost to Hamilton in 2007. Do you have some other results that you are reading? I think we can argue all day long but in the end we only have the official results published by the FIA.

People are using team-mate comparisons to prove that Alonso is the best driver in F1. But then team-mate comparisons are not allowed to be used to make a point that Alonso may in fact not be the best. You can't do both and not look like hypocrites.

As far as I know he may or may not be the best, but I can't agree with the logic some of you people are using to prove he's the best.

The official results say that hamilton and alonso finished on the same points. End of!

#8832 zeph

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 19:53

I should know better than to get sucked into this, but for those who use '07 as evidence that Hamilton is better than Alonso:

- Alonso finished with points in 16 out of 17 races. He had 12 podiums: 4 wins, 4 second places and 4 thirds. He ended the season with 109 points.

- Hamilton finished with points in 15 out of 17 races. He had 12 podiums: 4 wins, 5 second places and 3 thirds. He ended the season with 109 points.


So what you are saying is that because Hamilton has an extra 2nd place, he BEAT Alonso? Really? :confused:

Edited by zeph, 02 June 2011 - 19:55.


#8833 ferrarijon123

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 19:57

I should know better than to get sucked into this, but for those who use '07 as evidence that Hamilton is better than Alonso:

- Alonso finished with points in 16 out of 17 races. He had 12 podiums: 4 wins, 4 second places and 4 thirds. He ended the season with 109 points.

- Hamilton finished with points in 15 out of 17 races. He had 12 podiums: 4 wins, 5 second places and 3 thirds. He ended the season with 109 points.


So what you are saying is that because Hamilton has an extra 2nd place, he BEAT Alonso? Really? :confused:

Init but then people will say that alonso has 1 more third and 1 more finish in the points. But you wont be able to persuade people so why do we bother :confused:

#8834 Anssi

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 20:03

How about Trulli beating Alonso? It may in fact be that both Hamilton and Trulli are better than Alonso if we use this popular logic of doing team-mate comparisons and team-mate cross-comparisons to prove it. By the same logic we can make an argument that Heikki Kovalainen is better than Alonso since he beat Trulli.

For all you nice people reading my posts, please understand that I am not saying that Lewis Hamilton or anyone else is better than Fernando Alonso. I am discussing the logic some of you are using to prove that Alonso is the best.

#8835 Hole

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 20:45

How about Trulli beating Alonso? It may in fact be that both Hamilton and Trulli are better than Alonso if we use this popular logic of doing team-mate comparisons and team-mate cross-comparisons to prove it. By the same logic we can make an argument that Heikki Kovalainen is better than Alonso since he beat Trulli.

For all you nice people reading my posts, please understand that I am not saying that Lewis Hamilton or anyone else is better than Fernando Alonso. I am discussing the logic some of you are using to prove that Alonso is the best.


I see your point, but when did that of Trulli happened?

2003:
Alonso: 55. (5 retirements)
Trulli: 33. (5 retirements)

2004 (till Italian GP that was when Trulli last raced for Renault):
Alonso: 45 (5 retirements)
Trulli: 46 (3 retirements)


In 2004 with 2 more retirements Alonso managed to have more or less the same points than Trulli. I don't see that such a beat.

Edited by AdamKOR, 02 June 2011 - 20:46.


#8836 broooz

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 21:02

I see your point, but when did that of Trulli happened?

2003:
Alonso: 55. (5 retirements)
Trulli: 33. (5 retirements)

2004 (till Italian GP that was when Trulli last raced for Renault):
Alonso: 45 (5 retirements)
Trulli: 46 (3 retirements)


In 2004 with 2 more retirements Alonso managed to have more or less the same points than Trulli. I don't see that such a beat.

Of course, you are right. Anssi is clutching at straws all the time.
And the only reason is Kimi.

#8837 Nitropower

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 21:03

I never said Hamilton was not good, I admire very much Hamilton as a driver as much as I hated his old attitude - and sometimes his brainless attacking style. I rate him over Vettel for example. I don't waste my time in trying to show who's better, I just listen to the experts and, guess what they say? (even if for me it's their current opinion and not a wholy and invariable truth).

What I say the equation "Hamilton is better than Alonso because in the 2007 championship he ended ahead on the standings" is as simple as plain stupid. It's a single season and a very controversial and different one.

#8838 Buttoneer

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 23:03

Posts deleted.

There's already an 'Ultimate' Alonso v Hamilton thread, so take the discussion there please.


Also, please REPORT those who are trolling, do not REPLY to them. If you do reply, you simply create additional posts to be removed, and put yourself in a position where your posting rights may also be restricted.

#8839 Buttoneer

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 12:07

Deleted more Hamilton v Alonso chatter.

There is a thread dedicated for that. It's easy enough to quote a post, copy the text, and then reply to it over in that thread, so I suggest that if you absolutely must discuss 2007 etc, you take it there.

Please do not reply to those posts here.

Edit; Earnings chart split to it's own topic because it is being discussed across multiple threads.

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#8840 kosmos

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 16:23

So much love for Fernando, only thing missing it's the car :cat:

http://www.jamesalle...ery-takes-over/

#8841 Unbiased

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 19:08

The most important quality of Alonso is that he can handle pressure and keeps focussed on getting the job done when it really matters and something special is needed (as Vettel can too). He just delivers it.

Hamilton definitely lacks that quality as he showed in 2007 (lost the championship because he threw it away the last races under pressure), 2008 (almost threw the title away under pressure against Massa of all drivers...), 2010 (crashing here and there, making mistakes in corners going off track/wide letting other championship contenders pass, under pressure, throwing his title chances away) and recent races too, exact same thing. Webber has that too.

Alonso has never faltered that way under pressure, although some might say him being stuck behind Petrov, losing the championship that way, would be one of those times.

Alonso can still win this championship, Ferrari needs to step up to the plate, Alonso does everything already.

#8842 AlanWake

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 19:47

So much love for Fernando, only thing missing it's the car :cat:

http://www.jamesalle...ery-takes-over/


Don't worry, sooner or later, Fernando will have the car to fight for the WDC again! :)

#8843 puxanando

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 20:28

Don't worry, sooner or later, Fernando will have the car to fight for the WDC again! :)

:up: Yes .....

#8844 SCUDmissile

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 21:44

i think sooner than what people think. :cat:  ;)

#8845 Hole

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 22:35

Despite the huge difference between Vetel and Alonso, somehow I feel we are in a better situation this year than in 2010, dunno exactly why or if it's really sensible :confused:

#8846 SCUDmissile

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 23:16

Despite the huge difference between Vetel and Alonso, somehow I feel we are in a better situation this year than in 2010, dunno exactly why or if it's really sensible :confused:

probably because china aside he has driven amazingly, and IMO there is a lot of potential to come out the f150

#8847 kosmos

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Posted 05 June 2011 - 02:51

Alonso has never faltered that way under pressure, although some might say him being stuck behind Petrov, losing the championship that way, would be one of those times.


He couldn't overtake Petrov because the track and Renault's speed in the straight not because he succumbed under pressure that day, Hamilton couldn't overtake Kubica either.


#8848 showtime

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 15:23

Fernando and Lewis in CARS 2 (video on the right):

http://www.tiramilla...1307353915.html

Posted Image

Edited by showtime, 06 June 2011 - 15:25.


#8849 Anssi

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 20:04

Alonso can still win this championship


I agree. The season is very long (too long imho, not because of Alonso but I just generally don't like to have so many GPs. It devalues F1 for me.)


#8850 Buttoneer

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 15:28

Posts deleted so this is now the third request on the same page!

Thread will be closed permanently if you do not take Hamilton v Alonso 2007 discussion to the appropriate thread, which was set up specifically at the request of those wishing to keep THIS thread clear of that stuff. It's no good complaining that it was 'other posters who did it'. You can help prevent closure by reporting those who troll and NOT replying.

If you simply absolutely MUST reply to a post above, copy it and quote it in the correct thread.