Jump to content


Photo

Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
14493 replies to this topic

#851 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 12:46

So what? The records show, and always will show, that he was WDC for that year. But this has nothing to do with Fernando.
Keke won, with Didier Pironi and John Watson tied on points. Somewhat reminiscent of 2007. :lol:

with pironi didnt end the championship due to an accident



Advertisement

#852 Katsumi

Katsumi
  • Member

  • 1,114 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 12:48

the sponsors alonso brought with, didnt just come up for alonsos salary but also for much more! so it was not that mclaren paid, it was that alonso brought a lot of money to mclaren!


A yes or a no; Alonso as a 2 time WDC with 7 years of experience should have eaten Lewis raw, yes or no? No but ...

#853 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 12:49

A yes or a no; Alonso as a 2 time WDC with 7 years of experience should have eaten Lewis raw, yes or no? No but ...

without the team intervening: yes!
with the team intervening: no!

#854 Katsumi

Katsumi
  • Member

  • 1,114 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 12:51

the sponsors alonso brought with, didnt just come up for alonsos salary but also for much more! so it was not that mclaren paid, it was that alonso brought a lot of money to mclaren!


And one more thing, if Alonso thought he would be number 1 from the beginning he doesnt know much about McLaren. McLaren always gives their drivers the same equip and changes to become WDC, they dont bet on one horse.

What im saying is, Alonso knew if he wanted to become the number 1 driver he had to earn that on track, and he failed and then started whining.

#855 Massacrator

Massacrator
  • Member

  • 1,361 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 12:53

And one more thing, if Alonso thought he would be number 1 from the beginning he doesnt know much about McLaren. McLaren always gives their drivers the same equip and changes to become WDC, they dont bet on one horse.

What im saying is, Alonso knew if he wanted to become the number 1 driver he had to earn that on track, and he failed and then started whining.

Nope.

He started complaining when Hamilton was given more chances than him.

They (the drivers) are the ones who are there in the box and notice the treatment they get. If Alonso complained, I'm indeed with him.

#856 Katsumi

Katsumi
  • Member

  • 1,114 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 12:54

without the team intervening: yes!
with the team intervening: no!


Thats just bollocks, then you also know nothing about Alonso or dont hear what even Alonso said. Alonso even ventilated then the FIA technical delegate into his garage was absolutly bollocks.

But i can be wrong, do you have an URL that supports your statement, McLaren intervening Alonso? Because Alonso always waved that from his hand ...

#857 Katsumi

Katsumi
  • Member

  • 1,114 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 12:55

Nope.

He started complaining when Hamilton was given more chances than him.

They (the drivers) are the ones who are there in the box and notice the treatment they get. If Alonso complained, I'm indeed with him.


And that was when?

#858 arbillo

arbillo
  • New Member

  • 24 posts
  • Joined: February 08

Posted 22 June 2010 - 12:58

remember hungary????

And that was when?



#859 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:00

And that was when?

after monaco everything started!

Advertisement

#860 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:02

Thats just bollocks, then you also know nothing about Alonso or dont hear what even Alonso said. Alonso even ventilated then the FIA technical delegate into his garage was absolutly bollocks.

But i can be wrong, do you have an URL that supports your statement, McLaren intervening Alonso? Because Alonso always waved that from his hand ...

there is an interview otoelpiloto has posted here with alonso complaining about the treatment, please look through this thread!

#861 ZooL

ZooL
  • Member

  • 2,063 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:03

Nope.

He started complaining when Hamilton was given more chances than him.

They (the drivers) are the ones who are there in the box and notice the treatment they get. If Alonso complained, I'm indeed with him.

Alonso complained at Renault too that the team was against him. Was you with him then too?

Alonso has history of silly nonsense. He is a paranoid reclused individual. Even Pat Symonds said he was a weirdo. I bet he will do it at Ferrari too, give it time.

#862 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:05

Alonso has history of silly nonsense. He is a paranoid reclused individual.

are you talking about hamilton (this season after australia, or after turkey?)
please do not mix up the drivers

#863 Katsumi

Katsumi
  • Member

  • 1,114 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:05

remember hungary????


So this had noting to do with Lewis vs Alonso? ... It was all McLaren/Lewis/everyone vs Alonso?

Open your eyes for one second, if Alonso did what he had to do he should have beaten Lewis, he failed because Lewis at the end might be the more complete driver over Alonso. He matched Alonso in his rookie year, imagion what Lewis would do this day with 3.5 years of experience and 1 WDC ...

#864 Katsumi

Katsumi
  • Member

  • 1,114 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:05

after monaco everything started!


Even the so called fans dont know ... :rolleyes:

#865 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:06

Even the so called fans dont know ... :rolleyes:

please lighten us up!

#866 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:09

He matched Alonso in his rookie year, imagion what Lewis would do this day with 3.5 years of experience and 1 WDC ...

you mean like against button? :cool:
come on, lewis is really damn good, but he is like all other drivers, he needs the psychological advantage over the others (exception kimi), if not he is not up there.
and in 2007 dennis gave it to him, still alonso beated him 10:7 on track!

#867 Katsumi

Katsumi
  • Member

  • 1,114 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:10

are you talking about hamilton (this season after australia, or after turkey?)
please do not mix up the drivers


Common, Alonso in 2010 sending out a warning to Jenson about McLaren, Alonso suffered a huge psychological blow in 2007. His self-confidence will never be like it was before 2007.

#868 ZooL

ZooL
  • Member

  • 2,063 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:11

Nope.

He started complaining when Hamilton was given more chances than him.

They (the drivers) are the ones who are there in the box and notice the treatment they get. If Alonso complained, I'm indeed with him.

Alonso was of the belief that he should have ALL the chances. He was too used to the Renault way.

Remember the Blackmail threat? What do you think he threatened?
I bet it went like:

'give me all the chances or else I will be a snitch on the team'.

Then Alonso manager said 'only joking' but it was too late as Dennis phone FIA.

Blackmailing is not the way.

#869 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:12

Common, Alonso in 2010 sending out a warning to Jenson about McLaren, Alonso suffered a huge psychological blow in 2007. His self-confidence will never be like it was before 2007.

why not? he is not in the surrounding which lead to that psychological blow, he changed his surrounding and is better than before, because he went throw hard times and came out stronger! nothing bad about that.

#870 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:13

Remember the Blackmail threat? What do you think he threatened?

that was never proven, that there were any blackmail from alonso!
it is a chimera of dennis, the british and german press, alonso and the spanish press always said that this is not true.
really funny to see, that there are still pepole believing in that :down:

Edited by YellowHelmet, 22 June 2010 - 13:15.


#871 ZooL

ZooL
  • Member

  • 2,063 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:13

you mean like against button? :cool:
come on, lewis is really damn good, but he is like all other drivers, he needs the psychological advantage over the others (exception kimi), if not he is not up there.
and in 2007 dennis gave it to him, still alonso beated him 10:7 on track!

Hamilton is beating Button quite easily. 6-2, and those Button 2 are wet lottery's where Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Webber etc all got strategy wrong and only Button, Kubica, Rosberg right.

#872 Katsumi

Katsumi
  • Member

  • 1,114 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:14

and in 2007 dennis gave it to him, still alonso beated him 10:7 on track!


I'm stopping this, Alonso didnt beat anyone .. The only one he beat was the the thought he was going to get the #1 position, and failing in pulling this status towards him.

Its so pathetic to assume Alonso was in a #2 position, and even if he was!!! ... It was upto Alonso himself! DONT FORGET THAT!!! It was Alonso failing!!

#873 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:16

It was upto Alonso himself! DONT FORGET THAT!!! It was Alonso failing!!

no he didnt fail.
He raced against mclaren and hamilton and still managed to score the same points as hamilton did and beated hamilton 10:7 on track.
Cants see why he failed :confused:

Edited by YellowHelmet, 22 June 2010 - 14:16.


#874 Katsumi

Katsumi
  • Member

  • 1,114 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:17

Alonso was of the belief that he should have ALL the chances. He was too used to the Renault way.

Remember the Blackmail threat? What do you think he threatened?
I bet it went like:

'give me all the chances or else I will be a snitch on the team'.

Then Alonso manager said 'only joking' but it was too late as Dennis phone FIA.

Blackmailing is not the way.


Alonso fans dont remember this ...

#875 Simon Says

Simon Says
  • Member

  • 2,163 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:17

that was never proven, that there were any blackmail from alonso!


It was proven that Alonso used Ferrari IP by e-mails he had with De La Rosa.

And it was confirmed that Ron contacted the FIA after Hungary about new evidence that Ferrari IP was used, apparently by Alonso.

Edited by Simon Says, 22 June 2010 - 13:18.


#876 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:17

Hamilton is beating Button quite easily. 6-2, and those Button 2 are wet lottery's where Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Webber etc all got strategy wrong and only Button, Kubica, Rosberg right.

6:2 :confused: where you have your stats from?

#877 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:18

It just so happens that Alonso used Ferrari IP in e-mails he had with De La Rosa.

And it was confirmed that Ron contacted the FIA after Hungary about new evidence that Ferrari IP was used, apparently by Alonso.

and that doesnt mean that alonso blackmailed anybody, it can also be that ron blackmailed alonso!

#878 Simon Says

Simon Says
  • Member

  • 2,163 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:18

6:2 :confused: where you have your stats from?


In Barcelona, Lewis was in 2nd place while Jenson was all the way back down the grid. Hence why it's 6-2.

#879 Katsumi

Katsumi
  • Member

  • 1,114 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:19

why not? he is not in the surrounding which lead to that psychological blow, he changed his surrounding and is better than before, because he went throw hard times and came out stronger! nothing bad about that.


:rotfl:

Im stopping this, Alonso just isnt as good as you think, why else does he need pre-fixed-races???

Advertisement

#880 Katsumi

Katsumi
  • Member

  • 1,114 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:20

that was never proven, that there were any blackmail from alonso!
it is a chimera of dennis, the british and german press, alonso and the spanish press always said that this is not true.
really funny to see, that there are still pepole believing in that :down:


dont be so hypocrite, it was never proven that Lewis was favoured ...

#881 Katsumi

Katsumi
  • Member

  • 1,114 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:21

It was proven that Alonso used Ferrari IP by e-mails he had with De La Rosa.

And it was confirmed that Ron contacted the FIA after Hungary about new evidence that Ferrari IP was used, apparently by Alonso.


Spot on mate :up:

#882 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:22

Alonso fans dont remember this ...

but you remember, because you were present there?
the thing is, the more languages you speak, the more you could have followed what happened!
in the german (mercedes) and birtish (mclaren) newspapers they printed about alonso blackmailing dennis
and in the spanish (alonso) they printed about alonso being unfairly treated and that he never blackmailed anyone!


#883 ZooL

ZooL
  • Member

  • 2,063 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:22

that was never proven, that there were any blackmail from alonso!
it is a chimera of dennis, the british and german press, alonso and the spanish press always said that this is not true.
really funny to see, that there are still pepole believing in that :down:

LOL yes it was. It was in many many reports and probably FIA transcript.

The whole thing started because of Alonso's blackmail "give me #1 or I will tell".

You think Dennis phone FIA for fun? :rotfl: :(

Have a think for a moment WHY Dennis had to phone after speaking with Alonso...

#884 Simon Says

Simon Says
  • Member

  • 2,163 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:23

and that doesnt mean that alonso blackmailed anybody, it can also be that ron blackmailed alonso!


How was Ron blackmailing Alonso? Alonso later provided the evidence to nail Mclaren by what he did and got special protection from the FIA to do it.

Alonso definetly had something to nail Mclaren which later appeared. So what happened at Hungary is very likely to be true.

edit: And you think Ron will call up the FIA and say, we have more evidence that we used Ferrari IP? :rolleyes: Ofcourse he won't, it was because Alonso brought it up and wanted to go the FIA, so Ron decided to do it himself.

Edited by Simon Says, 22 June 2010 - 13:25.


#885 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:24

:rotfl:

Im stopping this, Alonso just isnt as good as you think, why else does he need pre-fixed-races???

and you are not the one to judge!
he proved you wrong, and will do that in future again

he never needed pre-fixed races, because there are more than 20 drivers which a pre-fixtion must take into consideration!

#886 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:25

The whole thing started because of Alonso's blackmail "give me #1 or I will tell".

please show me where in the transcrpit this is mentioned and proved to be true?
never, so stop guessing and bashing with no evidence alonso :down:

#887 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:26

How was Ron blackmailing Alonso?

i didnt say he does, but it is also possible as the opposite that alonso blackmailed him!
but none of that is proven, so let us forget about dennis mismanagement!

#888 Simon Says

Simon Says
  • Member

  • 2,163 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:28

and you are not the one to judge!
he proved you wrong, and will do that in future again

he never needed pre-fixed races, because there are more than 20 drivers which a pre-fixtion must take into consideration!


Alonso is one of the best drivers out there, but you guys are really nuts to suggest Lewis got prefertial treatment at Mclaren.

If that is teh case, report it to the FIA. Mclaren will get an other penalty, because Alonso was protected by the FIA to ensure equal treatment.

The FIA even put stewards in the garage of Mclaren to study if Alonso and Lewis got equal treatment and they found no evidence that Lewis was favoured. ( this was because Alonso had special protection from the FIA )

edit: At some point Alonso stopped sharing his setup with Lewis, that just shows that Lewis had no preferential treatment, because else he would have gotten it despite of Alonso his demands

Edited by Simon Says, 22 June 2010 - 13:29.


#889 as65p

as65p
  • Member

  • 17,293 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:30

Hm, here in Germany, childrens day is the 1st of June.

#890 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:32





Alonso is one of the best drivers out there, but you guys are really nuts to suggest Lewis got prefertial treatment at Mclaren.

why, it was obvious, "we are racing alonso"
not to forget, thinks like in malaysia, alonso winning the race superbly and the team celebrated hamilton!
not to forget monaco, alonso was fastest on all three days and winning easily and the team let the impression that alonso was favoured :drunk:

The FIA even put stewards in the garage of Mclaren to study if Alonso and Lewis got equal treatment and they found no evidence that Lewis was favoured. ( this was because Alonso had special protection from the FIA )

psychological favourism isnt possible to measure!

Edited by YellowHelmet, 22 June 2010 - 13:59.


#891 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:33

edit: At some point Alonso stopped sharing his setup with Lewis, that just shows that Lewis had no preferential treatment, because else he would have gotten it despite of Alonso his demands

it never stopped, e.g in brasil alonso tried lewis setup!

#892 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:35

In Barcelona, Lewis was in 2nd place while Jenson was all the way back down the grid. Hence why it's 6-2.

?
please do not use your own stats. let the stats as they are. we can go on discussing why it came to that stats, but please do not manipulate the stats on your own!

Edited by YellowHelmet, 22 June 2010 - 13:35.


#893 ZooL

ZooL
  • Member

  • 2,063 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:38

i didnt say he does, but it is also possible as the opposite that alonso blackmailed him!
but none of that is proven, so let us forget about dennis mismanagement!

My god what a silly argument!!!

Now your saying Dennis blackmailed Alonso and if Alonso didn't accept Dennis himself will phone the FIA and shoot his own team? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

#894 fabr68

fabr68
  • Member

  • 3,963 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:39

Alonso was of the belief that he should have ALL the chances. He was too used to the Renault way.

Remember the Blackmail threat? What do you think he threatened?
I bet it went like:

'give me all the chances or else I will be a snitch on the team'.

Then Alonso manager said 'only joking' but it was too late as Dennis phone FIA.


Blackmailing is not the way.


"I bet" is hardly any evidence or fact that such blackmailing occurred. Maybe you can provide links to support your opinion?

#895 robefc

robefc
  • Member

  • 8,020 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:46

why, it was obvious, "we are racing alonso"
not to forget, thinks like in malaysia, alonso winning the race superbly and the team celebrated hamilton!
not to forget monaco, alonso was fastest on all three days and winning easily and the team let the impression that alonso was favoured :drunk:


I'm not sure 'not celebrating with your winning driver sufficiently to make him feel wanted' qualifies as 'preferential treatment'.
Alonso found 2007 a tough year because of an unexpected challenge from a rookie, he could have managed it better, lewis could have managed it better, macca could have handled it better, in the end none of them won anything that season.


#896 Simon Says

Simon Says
  • Member

  • 2,163 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 22 June 2010 - 13:50

why, it was obvious, "we are racing alonso"
not to forget, thinks like in malaysia, alonso winning the race superbly and the team celebrated hamilton!
not to forget monaco, alonso was fastest on all three days and winning easily and the team let the impression that alonso was favoured :drunk:


You do realise that team principles always talk in "we"? :rolleyes:

Lewis was racing Alonso for the WDC because Kimi was 17 points behind in China so he had no chance of winning ( yes he won, just insane amount of luck ). So that's why Ron said that "we" ( that means the Mclaren strategist ) were racing Alonso and not Kimi and that's why they didn't call in Lewis much earlier in the pits before his tyres were gone.

That silly action of Mclaren in China is what actually helped Alonso to closen the gap in the WDC, because else Lewis would have won the China and be the 2007 WDC :rotfl:

For someone that wasn't even a test driver to be so close to Alonso, fighting with Kimi and Massa and scoring podiums all the time, ofcourse they are going to celebrate it. :rolleyes:

The team didn't say Alonso was favored, they said the race was fixed in advance, because of the unpredictabilty of the safety car. Alonso was given a light car so that's why he was so fast :rolleyes: Lewis was given a car full of fuel that could anticipate a safety car and jump everybody. But Mclaren didn't expect that Lewis was going to beat Alonso, so they gave him an extra stop and even told him later that he should back off. And that is what pissed Lewis off, because he was sabotaged by the pitcrew.

edit: And the FIA had stewards in the garage of Mclaren, they never found a shred of evidence that Mclaren favoured Lewis :wave:

Edited by Simon Says, 22 June 2010 - 13:56.


#897 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 14:00

My god what a silly argument!!!

Now your saying Dennis blackmailed Alonso

never said that (but it is a possibility!)

#898 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 14:02

I'm not sure 'not celebrating with your winning driver sufficiently to make him feel wanted' qualifies as 'preferential treatment'.
Alonso found 2007 a tough year because of an unexpected challenge from a rookie, he could have managed it better, lewis could have managed it better, macca could have handled it better, in the end none of them won anything that season.

the unexpected thing was the treatment of the team, not hamilton himself!

#899 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 June 2010 - 14:03

The team didn't say Alonso was favored, they said the race was fixed in advance, because of the unpredictabilty of the safety car.

and that is an affront against alonso, who was fastest on all three days in monaco!
and the begin of the 2007 saga!

edit: And the FIA had stewards in the garage of Mclaren, they never found a shred of evidence that Mclaren favoured Lewis wave.gif

as already mentioned, psychological favourism and vice versa mistreatment cant be measured, and cant be sanctioned by the fia

Edited by YellowHelmet, 22 June 2010 - 14:06.


Advertisement

#900 Flamini

Flamini
  • Member

  • 809 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 22 June 2010 - 14:06

Alonso was given a light car so that's why he was so fast :rolleyes: Lewis was given a car full of fuel that could anticipate a safety car and jump everybody.


Full of fuel? This is not true, you better start reading what happened in Monaco 2007. Hamilton had fuel for 5 laps longer than Alonso and he pitted only 3 laps after Alonso. So it was only 2 laps difference (first stop).

Btw, Alonso was on pole by 0.179
1 lap fuel in Monaco means 0.025 slower.
So Alonso was even faster in qualy by 0.054 fuel corrected.
+ Alonso had problems with brakes.