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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#9051 tifosiMac

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 08:20

And even without that prize Ferrari seems delighted with him, just imagine when he wins it... (yes, when and not if :p )

His time will come I'm sure.. :)
Its when Ferrari allow him to each ice cream I think you ought to worry, the Kimi hat is fine lol.. :p

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#9052 Kohque

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 09:01

You really believe that Alonso wasn't at fault in the incident with Jenson in Canada?

I'll bring up the footage when I get home, but as I posted in another thread, it's blatantly clear that Jenson was right up alongside Alonso going into the first part of the chicane. Alonso tried to take the corner back by TRYING to outbrake Jenson into the entry, but he didn't even come close to succeeding. Without getting far enough ahead, he simply turned across Jenson's front wheels. Jenson had nowhere to go, he was already parked right up on the kerbs on the apex of the corner.

100% Alonso's fault.

Uff, a bit old...

Trying to outbrake Jenson: Some people call it racing. Not only he tried to outbrake Jenson, but he actually did outbrake Jenson, which is not too difficult to understand since Jenson was in the interior and had to brake earlier.

Alonso didn't come close, you say... Well, he was one wheel away from continuing his race, but he did not have to succeed in anything because the overtake was being done by Jenson, who "almost" succeeded, but backed off to take the turn. Alonso had the racing line. Just before the turn, both drivers moved to the left to take the wider possible angle in that curve. The footage that you are going to show me only shows Button entering a bit too wide into that corner because he arrived with a bit of extra speed.

But before you continue, can you tell me why Di Resta was penalized? After all, Heidfield also outbraked Di Resta, didn't he? Then, why the stewards penalize Di Resta? (In fact, most of penalties of this kind go to the driver in the interior, so something gotta give).

100% Alonso's fault... Mmmm... OK :lol: whatever.



#9053 trogggy

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 09:21

Uff, a bit old...

Trying to outbrake Jenson: Some people call it racing. Not only he tried to outbrake Jenson, but he actually did outbrake Jenson, which is not too difficult to understand since Jenson was in the interior and had to brake earlier.

Alonso didn't come close, you say... Well, he was one wheel away from continuing his race, but he did not have to succeed in anything because the overtake was being done by Jenson, who "almost" succeeded, but backed off to take the turn. Alonso had the racing line. Just before the turn, both drivers moved to the left to take the wider possible angle in that curve. The footage that you are going to show me only shows Button entering a bit too wide into that corner because he arrived with a bit of extra speed.

But before you continue, can you tell me why Di Resta was penalized? After all, Heidfield also outbraked Di Resta, didn't he? Then, why the stewards penalize Di Resta? (In fact, most of penalties of this kind go to the driver in the interior, so something gotta give).

100% Alonso's fault... Mmmm... OK :lol: whatever.

Was DiResta ahead of Heidfeld at any point? I can't remember him being, might be wrong..

Edited by trogggy, 22 June 2011 - 09:23.


#9054 Kohque

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 09:42

Was DiResta ahead of Heidfeld at any point? I can't remember.

"At any moment" is irrelevant if you are not able to claim the racing line or you are not alongside as you reach the turn. If Jenson had been alongside at the turn, then Alonso would have been at fault in case of impact, IMO, but Alonso was ahead. The reason, again, is obvious: Jenson could not keep that speed from the interior, so he backed off before reaching the turn.

#9055 trogggy

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 09:53

"At any moment" is irrelevant if you are not able to claim the racing line or you are not alongside as you reach the turn. If Jenson had been alongside at the turn, then Alonso would have been at fault in case of impact, IMO, but Alonso was ahead. The reason, again, is obvious: Jenson could not keep that speed from the interior, so he backed off before reaching the turn.

Button was ahead of Alonso. Alonso could see where he was - in front of him - when he started to brake. From that point, with Button braking as hard as was possible on his piece of track, what happened was totally down to what FA decided to do. He could have conceded, he could have cut the chicane, he could have taken a wider line. Instead he chose to try to outbrake Button, cut across him and span out. It was legitimate but risky - he nearly managed it. But he was the one who had the option to do something different.

Edit: anyway you asked and there's the answer.

Car 4 appeared to be firmly established on the inside line prior to the entry of the corner and drove onto the kerb to avoid Car 5 on the outside.


Edited by trogggy, 22 June 2011 - 09:55.


#9056 Fontainebleau

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 09:55

His time will come I'm sure.. :)
Its when Ferrari allow him to each ice cream I think you ought to worry, the Kimi hat is fine lol.. :p

Ah, don't mention ice creams! I am on a diet and hence off them, and at this moment in Madrid it is so hot that I could kill for one...

#9057 YellowHelmet

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 10:01

Yeah, that´s how SC plays sometimes. No need for conspiracies or mistakes for that to happen. It´s called SAFETY car for a reason, and when a car goes skywards the only right time to deploy it is ASAP. You don´t seem to realise that what should have happened without anyone breaking the rules is Hamilton P8, Alonso P9 and not Hamilton P2, Alonso P3. But hey, if you want to hold tight to another moral championship with cool stories, go ahead.

who is talking about conspiracies :confused:
about the rest look at user RR68

#9058 as65p

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 10:15

It was legitimate but risky - he nearly managed it. But he was the one who had the option to do something different.


Agree with the first part, but in the 2nd you make it sound as if Button didn't have the same option (to do something different), which I don't think is true.

They both played it hard while trying to be fair (IMO). But at this level it's bound to get wrong from time to time withouth neccessarily either of the two being the sole culprit.

#9059 Kohque

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 10:20

Button was ahead of Alonso. Alonso could see where he was - in front of him - when he started to brake. From that point, with Button braking as hard as was possible on his piece of track, what happened was totally down to what FA decided to do. He could have conceded, he could have cut the chicane, he could have taken a wider line. Instead he chose to try to outbrake Button, cut across him and span out. It was legitimate but risky - he nearly managed it. But he was the one who had the option to do something different.

Edit: anyway you asked and there's the answer.

OK, how I see it:

He could have conceded: No, you would have conceded if a normal day in the middle of London, but not when you are supposed to be racing. I mean, if a driver do that, then better pack the stuff and go home.

He could have cut the chicane: He could and probably would have if Jenson had been alongside, but he was behind.

He could have taken a wider line: He took a wider line. He went from the left edge before the turn to the left edge after the turn.

You know, "choosing to outbrake" is part of the game. How can you not choose to do that? It is like asking Button no to choose to try the overtake. He tried, did not have enough speed and backed off. Alonso tried to outbrake Jenson, did outbrake him, took a wider line, turned, came in to contact with Button, spun off, retired from the race and the whole thing ended up as a racing incident.

Really, you usually cannot put the burden on the driver in front who is not making the overtake. It is up to the driver who overtakes to make it stick.

And again, you can apply all this to Heidfield-Di Resta and try to explain why Di Resta was then penalized. If you agree the person in front is at fault, well, up to you. The important thing is that you stay consistent with that, coz I am pretty sure Hamilton and Button will find themselves in the situation Alonso was and I think it is going to be difficult to stick to that opinion.

Anyway, there is a thread for this so all these comments are going to be axed.



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#9060 trogggy

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 10:20

Agree with the first part, but in the 2nd you make it sound as if Button didn't have the same option (to do something different), which I don't think is true.

They both played it hard while trying to be fair (IMO). But at this level it's bound to get wrong from time to time withouth neccessarily either of the two being the sole culprit.

I'm not claiming FA was solely responsible - I'm not responsible for what other people think. What I'm saying is that from the time Button started to brake he couldn't do anything much different. At that point Alonso was the only one who could have pulled out or changed course.
I don't think Button was taking it easy on the damp line he was on. He was going for the corner, and braked as late and hard as he could. From that point on it was in FA's hands.
Fair?

#9061 as65p

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 10:37

I'm not claiming FA was solely responsible - I'm not responsible for what other people think. What I'm saying is that from the time Button started to brake he couldn't do anything much different. At that point Alonso was the only one who could have pulled out or changed course.
I don't think Button was taking it easy on the damp line he was on. He was going for the corner, and braked as late and hard as he could. From that point on it was in FA's hands.
Fair?


Hmm... not quite. You imply that between JB commiting and FA commiting to their way of negotiating the corner, the latter would have had sufficient time to change his approach according to what JB did, but I don't think their was enough time for Alonso to do that. From my POV they both commited to what they saw as the limit on their respective lines, without any intent to touch, it just didn't work out.

But I don't agree that Button had no other choice while Alonso had. They could both have chosen to back off, yet I'm glad they didn't. Just a hard battle how most would like to see, with a unfortunate outcome for one of them. Frankly I see no sense in the blame game at all over this one.

#9062 trogggy

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 10:42

Hmm... not quite. You imply that between JB commiting and FA commiting to their way of negotiating the corner, the latter would have had sufficient time to change his approach according to what JB did, but I don't think their was enough time for Alonso to do that. From my POV they both commited to what they saw as the limit on their respective lines, without any intent to touch, it just didn't work out.

But I don't agree that Button had no other choice while Alonso had. They could both have chosen to back off, yet I'm glad they didn't. Just a hard battle how most would like to see, with a unfortunate outcome for one of them. Frankly I see no sense in the blame game at all over this one.

They could have. I'm not arguing that at all. What I'm saying is that Button didn't back off - he left it until as late as possible to brake - and at that point he was ahead, but on a damp surface. After that all the choices were FA's.
I don't see how that's even really arguable, or why an FA fan would have a problem with it. The only argument could be that Button should have braked harder, and that you think he wasn't on the limit. None of that stops it being a 50:50 racing incident. :confused:

#9063 as65p

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 10:51

None of that stops it being a 50:50 racing incident. :confused:


Let's leave it at that, shall we? Confusion is bad...  ;)

#9064 trogggy

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 10:53

Let's leave it at that, shall we? Confusion is bad... ;)

No confusion here.

#9065 Buttoneer

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 10:58

Off topic here.

There is a thread for this so further chat will be axed. If you need to continue, cut and past the post you wish to reply to, into the correct thread.

#9066 as65p

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 11:01

No confusion here.


Wrong smiley then?

#9067 kosmos

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 11:05

A video of the Montana restaurant in Maranello.




Fernando Alonso’s greatest Grand Prix races

http://www.yallaf1.c...and-prix-races/

#9068 Hole

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 14:19

Woha! Fernando seems very very positive towards this GP! Autosport reported some of his good feelings regarding the EU GP, and now laSexta is reporting more:

We are able to win firmly

http://www.lasextade...claridad/371063

#9069 Kohque

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 14:34

Woha! Fernando seems very very positive towards this GP! Autosport reported some of his good feelings regarding the EU GP, and now laSexta is reporting more:


http://www.lasextade...claridad/371063

:up: thanks

As he says, there is no reason why they would not be competitive in Valencia, since it is a circuit with similar characteristics to Montreal. Let's see what McLaren brings to Valencia. It seems they were using the wrong rear wing in Montreal, so they will be very competitive as well.

#9070 Jordana

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 15:32

:up: thanks

As he says, there is no reason why they would not be competitive in Valencia, since it is a circuit with similar characteristics to Montreal. Let's see what McLaren brings to Valencia. It seems they were using the wrong rear wing in Montreal, so they will be very competitive as well.


It makes sense: horrible race in Barcelona, good race in Monaco, race to forget in Canada... :smoking:

#9071 Dunder

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 21:23

It seems that poor Fernando is still bitter about last year in Valencia:

Q. But it's a circuit that you haven't necessarily done very well at in this European Grand Prix. Best of sixth in 2009.

FA: Yes, in 2008 I had accident first lap with (Kazuki) Nakajima. In 2009 sixth and 2010 safety car period, safety car line one.

#9072 toxicfusion

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 21:31

It seems that poor Fernando is still bitter about last year in Valencia:

Q. But it's a circuit that you haven't necessarily done very well at in this European Grand Prix. Best of sixth in 2009.

FA: Yes, in 2008 I had accident first lap with (Kazuki) Nakajima. In 2009 sixth and 2010 safety car period, safety car line one.


Did or did it not define his race? You might as well say he's still bitter about the first lap incident with Nakijima.

#9073 Fontainebleau

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 09:15

It seems that poor Fernando is still bitter about last year in Valencia:

Q. But it's a circuit that you haven't necessarily done very well at in this European Grand Prix. Best of sixth in 2009.

FA: Yes, in 2008 I had accident first lap with (Kazuki) Nakajima. In 2009 sixth and 2010 safety car period, safety car line one.

He gets asked a question about how he has done in Valencia in the past, summarises the three races, and you conclude that he is still bitter???

#9074 tifosiMac

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 10:03

Fernando did mention how he was unfairly disadvantaged last year by the safety car in his interview with the BBC earlier this week. The question put to him didn't prompt this subject however. I wouldn't go as far to say he's bitter about it, although still slightly annoyed. :)

#9075 tty

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 10:41

It seems that poor Fernando is still bitter about last year in Valencia:

Q. But it's a circuit that you haven't necessarily done very well at in this European Grand Prix. Best of sixth in 2009.

FA: Yes, in 2008 I had accident first lap with (Kazuki) Nakajima. In 2009 sixth and 2010 safety car period, safety car line one.

It seems that you're obsessed with Fernando.

#9076 YellowHelmet

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 13:37

i hope those were representative times and that the dominance of red bull is finally over.

we will see.

however, great prefromance of alonso today :up:

#9077 fabr68

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 13:41

Fernando did mention how he was unfairly disadvantaged last year by the safety car in his interview with the BBC earlier this week. The question put to him didn't prompt this subject however. I wouldn't go as far to say he's bitter about it, although still slightly annoyed. :)


He is not as annoyed and bitter as he should be. That was some bad luck.

#9078 Kohque

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 13:46

i hope those were representative times and that the dominance of red bull is finally over.

we will see.

however, great prefromance of alonso today :up:

Everything seems to be going more or less as in Canada, though McLaren seems stronger here with the soft compound (no idea what problem they were having with the medium compound, any leads? bad updates?).

I also have the impression RBR is faster in the medium compound than they were in Canada, so that's a bit of a worry, but hopefully the times are more representative this time and Ferrari can keep the advantage it seems to have in practice.

EDIT: OK, they used soft and soft in Canada, I forgot, then everything as expected.

Edited by Kohque, 24 June 2011 - 14:45.


#9079 Dunder

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 13:47

i hope those were representative times and that the dominance of red bull is finally over.

we will see.

however, great prefromance of alonso today :up:


Yup, got to sell those tickets somehow!

2010 FORMULA 1 TELEFÓNICA GRAND PRIX OF EUROPE - 2ND FREE PRACTICE
Pos No Driver Team Time/Retired Gap Laps
1 8 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1:39.283 33
2 5 Sebastian Vettel RBR-Renault 1:39.339 0.056 27
3 6 Mark Webber RBR-Renault 1:39.427 0.144 29
4 4 Nico Rosberg Mercedes GP 1:39.650 0.367 22
5 2 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:39.749 0.466 24

2009 FORMULA 1 TELEFÓNICA GRAND PRIX OF EUROPE - 2ND FREE PRACTICE
Pos No Driver Team Time/Retired Gap Laps
1 7 Fernando Alonso Renault 1:39.404 33
2 22 Jenson Button Brawn-Mercedes 1:40.178 0.774 33
3 23 Rubens Barrichello Brawn-Mercedes 1:40.209 0.805 34
4 16 Nico Rosberg Williams-Toyota 1:40.385 0.981 39
5 17 Kazuki Nakajima Williams-Toyota 1:40.503 1.099 35

2008 FORMULA 1 TELEFÓNICA GRAND PRIX OF EUROPE - 2ND FREE PRACTICE
Pos No Driver Team Time/Retired Gap Laps
1 1 Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari 1:39.477 30
2 5 Fernando Alonso Renault 1:39.497 0.020 39
3 16 Jenson Button Honda 1:39.546 0.069 35
4 2 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:39.678 0.201 31
5 22 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:39.712 0.235 31

Edited by Dunder, 24 June 2011 - 13:48.


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#9080 YellowHelmet

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 13:52

Yup, got to sell those tickets somehow!

thats why i said i hope that those times were representative  ;)

#9081 puxanando

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 13:52

Posted Image

:up: :up: the fastest man in P2 !!!

#9082 Slowinfastout

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 13:54

What's with the cap thing?

I know he's filling in for Raikkonen, but that's taking it a step too far..

#9083 showtime

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 13:56

Yup, got to sell those tickets somehow!


Fair point but he has been up the in the FP since Monaco so I would say his times are not glory runs.

#9084 Dunder

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 14:01

Fair point but he has been up the in the FP since Monaco so I would say his times are not glory runs.


I would agree with that. None of the leading cars looked especially well balanced TBH.

#9085 Kohque

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 15:12

Webber: "Nothing has changed on engine mapping," he said. "McLaren was not slow in Canada and neither was Ferrari, so not much has changed. On all of this subject we wait until Silverstone, as it is a normal GP in terms of the new regulations, at least for us anyway. For us not much has changed."

It that is true, then slim chance for Alonso or Massa getting near pole during qualifying.

#9086 kosmos

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 15:24

Interesting comments of Vettel to Corriere della Sera:

From Alonso you don't learn only switching on the TV and saying, OK, I have to do it like this. You have to follow him in the races, with the onboard camera and of course, you have to pay attention the way he prepare the GP.


http://www.marca.com...1308904408.html

From italian to spanish to english, could be something lost in translation, but the comment is pretty straightforward. Speak volumes about who is Fernando Alonso in modern F1.

Edited by kosmos, 24 June 2011 - 15:30.


#9087 topical

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 15:46

Interesting comments of Vettel to Corriere della Sera:



http://www.marca.com...1308904408.html

From italian to spanish to english, could be something lost in translation, but the comment is pretty straightforward. Speak volumes about who is Fernando Alonso in modern F1.



Quite frankly I would rather Alonso wasn't facing his 5th straight year without a championship and have a little less plaudits than the way it is now.

#9088 SCUDmissile

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 17:17

Quite frankly I would rather Alonso wasn't facing his 5th straight year without a championship and have a little less plaudits than the way it is now.

didnt a certain M Schumacher have a similar length of time between his titles?

good performance from the car today, but RedBull look very good on the long runs, but Ferrari is there with McLaren very close these top 3.

#9089 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 08:28

Fair point but he has been up the in the FP since Monaco so I would say his times are not glory runs.


Dudes, quali is on fumes this year, it's totally legitimate to test that, especially like your car has had problems in this configuration. Not comparable to 2008.

#9090 topical

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 08:43

didnt a certain M Schumacher have a similar length of time between his titles?

good performance from the car today, but RedBull look very good on the long runs, but Ferrari is there with McLaren very close these top 3.


Yes but MS was part of a group that was taking a chaotic team and making it stronger and stronger on a year by year basis. The trend at Ferrari over the last 3-4 years has been looking worryingly like the opposite. I really don't see much similarity.

#9091 GreyArrow

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 08:54

It that is true, then slim chance for Alonso or Massa getting near pole during qualifying.

But a better chance of getting pole in qualifying than any other time...

#9092 IamFasterthanU

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 09:00

Yup with engine maps rule change surely red bulls ~0.5sec pace advantage in qualy as compared to their race pace should diminish to more reasonable level

#9093 Kohque

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 09:27

But a better chance of getting pole in qualifying than any other time...

Yes, they are going to be up there, but following the best sector times so far, they seem only slightly better than last year compare to Red Bull... and they pulled 0.5s advantage in qualifying last time around. For now, let's see how it goes in FP3.

#9094 SCUDmissile

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 09:51

Yes but MS was part of a group that was taking a chaotic team and making it stronger and stronger on a year by year basis. The trend at Ferrari over the last 3-4 years has been looking worryingly like the opposite. I really don't see much similarity.

not really.

Fastest car 3 years ago, 4th Fastest 2009, 2nd Fastest (arguably) 2010, and now 3rd Fastest.

i think 2009 was a lot worse, and they are improving very well this year.

#9095 ZooL

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 13:48

Should have qualified in P2 but made another mistake.

#9096 showtime

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 14:01

Should have qualified in P2 but made another mistake.


Don't think so. P2 I mean, P3 more likely.

#9097 kosmos

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 13:46

Bravo!, fantastic second position. Bad start but very good recovery to get P3 right away, amazing pace matching sometimes Vettel. Seriously, let's hope in England something change, at least give Feranndo the chance to push Vettel in every race. :up:

#9098 velgajski1

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 13:47

Great drive by Alonso today!

#9099 zeph

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 14:15

Solid race today. But I'm not gonna get excited until he actually wins something.


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#9100 topical

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 14:24

Good result all considering. The championship is lost but perhaps he can fight the McLarens and Webber for second, that would be respectable.