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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#9251 HPT

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 03:44

Bernie seems to like Schumacher a lot too. I'm really curious, what did Schumi do as world champion that was so markedly different from Alonso?

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#9252 Kohque

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 04:13

If Bernie doesn't like Alonso is probably a good sign that he doesn't want to play lapdog.

Alonso owes nothing to anybody. He made his career receiving zero support from F1 or any other institution. Bernie has sucked dry every fan, promoter and even teams because of the commitment some of them have with F1 and its history. They are the ones attracting drivers, not Bernie. And if one day these teams leave, F1 will poof away. Bernie should be glad there are no more top drivers like Kimi or Montoya, who decided to raise their finger in protest and leave. Bernie sold F1 to a group of myopic investors not interested in the long term future of F1 and I am sure he would do it 10 times over just to keep his family 'afloat' in the most expensive area of London. Maybe, now that his daughters seem to have enough to make a living, he should try to give something back to the people who make F1 possible. And if he doesn't, I hope the teams get it anyway with the new Concorde agreement.

In Bernie's words, "commitment to F1" is doublespeak for "commitment to my wealth".

Edited by Kohque, 02 July 2011 - 04:22.


#9253 puxanando

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 06:42

If Bernie doesn't like Fernando perhaps it is because the spaniard is an autentic person and not a puppet! :p
And when he speakes with spanish medias he changes .......
But his time like F1 boss is counted...not even he lives infinite!

#9254 fernandofan2001

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 08:44

Where did you hear that Massa went for a wet set up in Canada? Reliable source please.

I never said Hamilton and Vettel are better in every wet race, simply that in general they are better. Compare ths statistics for number of wet races won versus competed in. But I guess we'll just agree to disagree. some fanboys can't accept that their favourite is less than the best in anything...


LOL fanboys. Thanks for that.

And I dont believe Alonso is the best in the wet. Alot of the time you just cant compare someones ability in every wet race, because every wet race is so different, and every track is different. Alonso has never gone well at Spa, but lewis flys there in the wet. He is better in the wet in Spa, than Alonso. Its plain to see. He's better in the DRY at Spa too compared to Alonso.

But thats just one race. Another race, for example Bahrain, even though its not wet, Alonso is supreme at that race, winning it what, 3 times? Even Hungarian GP, Alonso FLYS round there, and would have won in 2006 but for his driveshaft failure, and in the wet he was supreme there (aided by much better tyres). In fact I think that is a keypoint to raise; Alonso's performance in the wet havn't been as good with Pirelli or Bridgestone (bar the european GP 2007) because Michellins gave such an advantage and were designed to perfection which suited Alonso.

But like I said, no driver is the best at everything on track. Lewis could be said that he is more on the limit in qualifying and is better than Alonso. But Alonso is better during the race and is more consistent and controlled. So, yeah im happy you call me a fanboy and I think nobody is better in any way :lol:

#9255 Fontainebleau

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 09:35

LOL fanboys. Thanks for that.

And I dont believe Alonso is the best in the wet. Alot of the time you just cant compare someones ability in every wet race, because every wet race is so different, and every track is different. Alonso has never gone well at Spa, but lewis flys there in the wet. He is better in the wet in Spa, than Alonso. Its plain to see. He's better in the DRY at Spa too compared to Alonso.

But thats just one race. Another race, for example Bahrain, even though its not wet, Alonso is supreme at that race, winning it what, 3 times? Even Hungarian GP, Alonso FLYS round there, and would have won in 2006 but for his driveshaft failure, and in the wet he was supreme there (aided by much better tyres). In fact I think that is a keypoint to raise; Alonso's performance in the wet havn't been as good with Pirelli or Bridgestone (bar the european GP 2007) because Michellins gave such an advantage and were designed to perfection which suited Alonso.

But like I said, no driver is the best at everything on track. Lewis could be said that he is more on the limit in qualifying and is better than Alonso. But Alonso is better during the race and is more consistent and controlled. So, yeah im happy you call me a fanboy and I think nobody is better in any way :lol:

Every time that I see this argument written I wonder if people remember that all drivers but six on the grid used Michelin. From the way things like your comment above are written (not saying that this was your intention, btw, just how it reads) one would think that only Alonso had that advantage.

Anyway, if you want we can focus the analysis on Alonso's wet races starting with Nurburgring 2007. I still don't think there is basis to say that he is worse than other drivers in the wet.

As for Spa, in 2007 Alonso qualified and finished the race ahead of Hamilton. In 2008 he qualified 6th to Hamilton's pole, with a time difference of 0,25 secs, and finished 4th to Hamilton 3rd after Hamilton's 25-secs penalty (Alonso was 29 secs behind before the penalty) - the fact that we are talking about the R28 vs the MP4-23 makes up for most of that time difference, particularly in qualy. In 2009 both retired (although Alonso is officially ahead in the race classification) after qualifying 12th (Hamilton) and 13 (Alonso) with a time difference of 0.014 secs - and we are talking the R29 vs the MP4-24. In 2010 Spa was a disaster for Alonso and Ferrari, but I doubt that is enough basis to state that Hamilton is sistematically faster than Alonso in Spa.

There are a few myths created around Alonso (he is not good in the wet, he is a bad starter, he is not a fast qualifyer, he is slower than Hamilton at Spa) that do not have a real basis in terms of actual results, yet have been repeated so often that are taken as facts by many people. It would be quite interesting if people in this forum who have done any analysis that are relevan to these points could share them with us. :)

#9256 SCUDmissile

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 09:48

Every time that I see this argument written I wonder if people remember that all drivers but six on the grid used Michelin. From the way things like your comment above are written (not saying that this was your intention, btw, just how it reads) one would think that only Alonso had that advantage.

Anyway, if you want we can focus the analysis on Alonso's wet races starting with Nurburgring 2007. I still don't think there is basis to say that he is worse than other drivers in the wet.

As for Spa, in 2007 Alonso qualified and finished the race ahead of Hamilton. In 2008 he qualified 6th to Hamilton's pole, with a time difference of 0,25 secs, and finished 4th to Hamilton 3rd after Hamilton's 25-secs penalty (Alonso was 29 secs behind before the penalty) - the fact that we are talking about the R28 vs the MP4-23 makes up for most of that time difference, particularly in qualy. In 2009 both retired (although Alonso is officially ahead in the race classification) after qualifying 12th (Hamilton) and 13 (Alonso) with a time difference of 0.014 secs - and we are talking the R29 vs the MP4-24. In 2010 Spa was a disaster for Alonso and Ferrari, but I doubt that is enough basis to state that Hamilton is sistematically faster than Alonso in Spa.

There are a few myths created around Alonso (he is not good in the wet, he is a bad starter, he is not a fast qualifyer, he is slower than Hamilton at Spa) that do not have a real basis in terms of actual results, yet have been repeated so often that are taken as facts by many people. It would be quite interesting if people in this forum who have done any analysis that are relevan to these points could share them with us. :)

the best way to answer this is for him to win at Spa this year.

#9257 puxanando

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 13:22

Alonso waiting for 'calamares'......

:rotfl:

#9258 fernandofan2001

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 14:13

Every time that I see this argument written I wonder if people remember that all drivers but six on the grid used Michelin. From the way things like your comment above are written (not saying that this was your intention, btw, just how it reads) one would think that only Alonso had that advantage.

Anyway, if you want we can focus the analysis on Alonso's wet races starting with Nurburgring 2007. I still don't think there is basis to say that he is worse than other drivers in the wet.

As for Spa, in 2007 Alonso qualified and finished the race ahead of Hamilton. In 2008 he qualified 6th to Hamilton's pole, with a time difference of 0,25 secs, and finished 4th to Hamilton 3rd after Hamilton's 25-secs penalty (Alonso was 29 secs behind before the penalty) - the fact that we are talking about the R28 vs the MP4-23 makes up for most of that time difference, particularly in qualy. In 2009 both retired (although Alonso is officially ahead in the race classification) after qualifying 12th (Hamilton) and 13 (Alonso) with a time difference of 0.014 secs - and we are talking the R29 vs the MP4-24. In 2010 Spa was a disaster for Alonso and Ferrari, but I doubt that is enough basis to state that Hamilton is sistematically faster than Alonso in Spa.

There are a few myths created around Alonso (he is not good in the wet, he is a bad starter, he is not a fast qualifyer, he is slower than Hamilton at Spa) that do not have a real basis in terms of actual results, yet have been repeated so often that are taken as facts by many people. It would be quite interesting if people in this forum who have done any analysis that are relevan to these points could share them with us. :)


He has never been strong at Spa. He out qualified Hamilton, but you look at his results, Kimi, Schumacher and Hamilton are infact better than him at that track. And Come off it, the R28 in the second part of the season was a fantastic car! It took 2 wins, it dispatched kimi rather easily and hounded Massa to the finish in Brazil, He was on it and the car was fantastic.

And Yes, the tyres gave all the michellin shod teams a slight advantage, which is why Honda was faster than ferrari for example. But the fact is, the Michellin tyre (and I remember the ITV piece Ted Kravitz gave) was much more advanced and dispatched water much better than the bridgestone. Alonso took more of an advantage than anyone because he and renault worked the Michellins to perfection, lets be honest Michellin-renault, Bridgestone- Ferrari. They were the tyre manufacturers favourites.

Now for the love of god its bullshit to say he isnt good in the wet. If you read the post before, Ive said how can anyone claim that. He is a blistering qualifyer but there are people faster by a fraction, and its not slower at spa, its the fact that he just doesnt gel with that track.

#9259 fernandofan2001

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 14:14

the best way to answer this is for him to win at Spa this year.


Dont be daft. he needs a good car.

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#9260 SCUDmissile

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 14:41

Dont be daft. he needs a good car.

who is being daft? Kimi showed you don't necessarily  ;)

being serious, maybe he will get the car for that race.

Edited by SCUDmissile, 02 July 2011 - 14:46.


#9261 Kelateboy

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 14:47

i dont think Massa was on a wet setup.

Alonso wanted to start on Inters. he felt it was inter time, and felt comfortable on the lap to the grid on the inters. but the safety car start put paid to that, and he had to start on wets, when he wanted inters.

it was logical to assume he would not feel as comfortable.

whereas, Massa and Vettel were happier on the wets.

the irony of that weekend was that McLaren ended up crashing in the wet, and on the wet setup, they were actually quicker in the dry. :lol:

One McLaren crashed while the other one took the chequered flag.

#9262 SCUDmissile

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 14:52

One McLaren crashed while the other one took the chequered flag.

youre right, but at the start, where they were meant to be comfortable, with the setup, they were not. they were slower than the Ferraris, and much slower than Vettel.

Button in fact was lapping quite slowly, which led to the accident.

only when it was drying, did Button show good pace.

this is ot anyways.

#9263 Unbiased

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 15:04

Bernie really loves Vettel doesn't he!!

He's never hidden his dislike of Alonso, he seems to be just about the only "informed" person in the paddock who rates Vettel as the out and out best.


You would be very wrong. Most in the paddock believe Vettel is the best at the moment. Of course if you ask them on live TV who is the best, they will not say "the driver of the other team" and start a riot in their own team.

Ferrari would love to have Vettel, right now, if they could. So would Mclaren, Mercedes, Renault, all of them.

The reason Bernie said that about Alonso is because it is a fact Alonso is a very "closed" person. He did nothing actively to promote F1, it was a very passive way. He does not interact, he actually has a very unfriendly personality, like he is a king amongst peasants or something. I have been around him a dozen times in more private surroundings, you wouldn't wanna go drink a beer with him, "for sure".

But then again, I also believe he is consciously putting up a wall around him to keep people out, so he is concentrated more on his job, maximizing himself to perform, than anything else. Or it is, just like he said himself, him being extremely shy and giving that impression. It is part of what makes him one of the best drivers out there.

Edited by Unbiased, 02 July 2011 - 15:15.


#9264 showtime

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 15:10

Alonso waiting for 'calamares'......

:rotfl:


That bit is taken from a Alonso TV special in 2004. If you haven't seen it, is quite funny!:


Edited by showtime, 02 July 2011 - 15:11.


#9265 puxanando

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 16:19

That bit is taken from a Alonso TV special in 2004. If you haven't seen it, is quite funny!:

:love: thank you so much!

#9266 Kohque

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 16:23

You would be very wrong. Most in the paddock believe Vettel is the best at the moment. Of course if you ask them on live TV who is the best, they will not say "the driver of the other team" and start a riot in their own team.

Ferrari would love to have Vettel, right now, if they could. So would Mclaren, Mercedes, Renault, all of them.

The reason Bernie said that about Alonso is because it is a fact Alonso is a very "closed" person. He did nothing actively to promote F1, it was a very passive way. He does not interact, he actually has a very unfriendly personality, like he is a king amongst peasants or something. I have been around him a dozen times in more private surroundings, you wouldn't wanna go drink a beer with him, "for sure".

But then again, I also believe he is consciously putting up a wall around him to keep people out, so he is concentrated more on his job, maximizing himself to perform, than anything else. Or it is, just like he said himself, him being extremely shy and giving that impression. It is part of what makes him one of the best drivers out there.

Also, don't forget he can barely open his mouth without receiving some good old fashioned criticizing for being sulk, a bad human being, whiner, crybaby, etc. The "unbiased" media in particular loves to exacerbate this image. If he wants to promote the show, he has to do it as Dick Dastardly, just like Kimi had to do it as a drunk and so on... Bernie doesn't like him simply because he doesn't fit the bill to become a cash cow like the young guns like Hamilton or Vettel. Ricciardo will join soon, I guess. I mean, don't kid yourself. There is nothing Alonso can do to promote F1 without getting pounded in the process. I think he has learnt to keep his mouth shut over the years and it is working really well for him at the moment, but not so much for Bernie and the media I guess.

#9267 SCUDmissile

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 16:28

lol I just saw the fiat 500 ad with alonso dubbe in English.

mr alonso, :lol:



#9268 Unbiased

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 16:31

Yes, like I mentioned, he intentionally puts that wall around him to fend off the nonsense that drivers have to deal with (especially the ones who are considered to be the best, like Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel).

I understand it completely, but this is the reason people like Bernie do not value him and you cannot critisize Bernie for that too, because it is his shop and he needs to sell things. For that he needs good salesmen like Hamilton, Button and Vettel.

Alonso changed his attitude in 2006 towards the F1 business and got the cold and distant tag that way. When with his family and real friend he obviously is different, like we all are.

#9269 Kohque

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 17:28

Yes, like I mentioned, he intentionally puts that wall around him to fend off the nonsense that drivers have to deal with (especially the ones who are considered to be the best, like Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel).

I understand it completely, but this is the reason people like Bernie do not value him and you cannot critisize Bernie for that too, because it is his shop and he needs to sell things. For that he needs good salesmen like Hamilton, Button and Vettel.

Alonso changed his attitude in 2006 towards the F1 business and got the cold and distant tag that way. When with his family and real friend he obviously is different, like we all are.

But even there Bernie is wrong. Alonso promotes the image in F1 where he has a fan base. In fact, in these places he has done much more for F1 than any other driver, but maybe, these markets are relatively small compare to the northern European countries or North America.

I agree Alonso made himself a disservice during 2006 giving a pretty wrong image that has followed him all these years. He was very green in front of the media. But in this the media plays the bigger role. The contrast between the way the English and the Spanish media handled Alonso during those years and in 2007 is massive, as you would expect. And the same can be said with the case with Hamilton after Monaco. He could have being made a sort of "Britney", but the English media played it cool and the whole thing went down the drain after few weeks. As an English driver, many people came out publicly in his defense, including Bernie, or kept the tone down when criticizing him. In another countries, I don't know, but I guess he was not precisely praised.

Bernie can think whatever he wants, but every time he opens his mouth to talk bull about Alonso or any other driver or team, he is doing a very weak service to F1 in some countries where they are much more respected. Bernie is just a dinosaur with a natural anglo-centric view, if that makes any sense. I think he is much more of a problem than an asset to promote F1 around the world as an international sport. If he really wants to promote F1, he will do well in retiring soon, though it may be a bit difficult to understand why in Anglophone countries.

Edits and more edits.

Edited by Kohque, 02 July 2011 - 17:51.


#9270 Fontainebleau

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 17:57

He has never been strong at Spa. He out qualified Hamilton, but you look at his results, Kimi, Schumacher and Hamilton are infact better than him at that track. And Come off it, the R28 in the second part of the season was a fantastic car! It took 2 wins, it dispatched kimi rather easily and hounded Massa to the finish in Brazil, He was on it and the car was fantastic.

And Yes, the tyres gave all the michellin shod teams a slight advantage, which is why Honda was faster than ferrari for example. But the fact is, the Michellin tyre (and I remember the ITV piece Ted Kravitz gave) was much more advanced and dispatched water much better than the bridgestone. Alonso took more of an advantage than anyone because he and renault worked the Michellins to perfection, lets be honest Michellin-renault, Bridgestone- Ferrari. They were the tyre manufacturers favourites.

Now for the love of god its bullshit to say he isnt good in the wet. If you read the post before, Ive said how can anyone claim that. He is a blistering qualifyer but there are people faster by a fraction, and its not slower at spa, its the fact that he just doesnt gel with that track.

1.- Spa: look at his results, then. Raikkonen has indeed a better record at Spa (better than that of most drivers, in all fairness), but Hamilton doesn't, as per the results provided - and your example referred to him specifically. As for the R28, yes, it was a better car in the second part of the season, yet not up to the level of the McLaren.

2.- Michelin tyres gave, as you said, a slight advantage to its drivers, particularly on the wet. But putting Alonso's drives down to just him having Michelin is quite simplistic. Had that been the case, we would have had similarly spectacular drives from Fisichella, who was no slouch.

I go back to my initial point: I constantly hear that Alonso is worse than x, y or z in certain areas - not that he is bad, simply that others are better. And maybe some of those claims are correct, yet I would like to see data backing them up. For example the one that on a one-lap basis he is slower by a fraction - somebody might have done the analysis, I would love to see it.

These "common knowledge" things about F1 are not limited to Alonso, of course. For example, in terms of being fast on a one-lap basis, Jarno Trulli is indeed a qualifying master - yet I wonder how often posters here have seen his name mentioned when discussing drivers's "raw speed".

#9271 prty

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 20:11

He has never been strong at Spa.


Well the drive that got him an F1 seat was a dominant win in Spa. In F1 because of a series of circumstances he has never won, but he was still strong.


#9272 Suntrek

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 23:14

Well the drive that got him an F1 seat was a dominant win in Spa. In F1 because of a series of circumstances he has never won, but he was still strong.


Who cares?

It's not like a win at Spa magically transforms a driver into something of a higher level (that's for Kimi fans hype)

I'm sure Fernando himself will be satisfied with the second place he has at Spa if he never wins there again. It's just a track. Like any other track. :kiss:

Edited by Suntrek, 02 July 2011 - 23:19.


#9273 VXT

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 01:46

1.- Spa: look at his results, then. Raikkonen has indeed a better record at Spa (better than that of most drivers, in all fairness), but Hamilton doesn't, as per the results provided - and your example referred to him specifically. As for the R28, yes, it was a better car in the second part of the season, yet not up to the level of the McLaren.

2.- Michelin tyres gave, as you said, a slight advantage to its drivers, particularly on the wet. But putting Alonso's drives down to just him having Michelin is quite simplistic. Had that been the case, we would have had similarly spectacular drives from Fisichella, who was no slouch.

I go back to my initial point: I constantly hear that Alonso is worse than x, y or z in certain areas - not that he is bad, simply that others are better. And maybe some of those claims are correct, yet I would like to see data backing them up. For example the one that on a one-lap basis he is slower by a fraction - somebody might have done the analysis, I would love to see it.

These "common knowledge" things about F1 are not limited to Alonso, of course. For example, in terms of being fast on a one-lap basis, Jarno Trulli is indeed a qualifying master - yet I wonder how often posters here have seen his name mentioned when discussing drivers's "raw speed".



Results are related to car, and spa is a very car dependant track, so you are confusing his cars not being strong at spa with Alonso's driving. As a driver Alonso is as strong at spa as anywhere else.

2004 - retired from the lead in a renault
2005 - finished second behind the untouchable mclaren
2007 - dominated lewis hamilton in equal machinery
2008- 4th in a rubbish car.
2009 - racing for a strong finish but racing incident ruined his race
2010, everthing went wrong.

So no evidence of Alonso struggling at Spa or not gelling with it.

Just because Alonso hounded Massa in the R28 does not mean it was a fantastic car. he has proven he can do that in without a fantastic car.

But thats just one race. Another race, for example Bahrain, even though its not wet, Alonso is supreme at that race, winning it what, 3 times? Even Hungarian GP, Alonso FLYS round there, and would have won in 2006 but for his driveshaft failure, and in the wet he was supreme there (aided by much better tyres). In fact I think that is a keypoint to raise; Alonso's performance in the wet havn't been as good with Pirelli or Bridgestone (bar the european GP 2007) because Michellins gave such an advantage and were designed to perfection which suited Alonso


Strange. How was he able to beat Massa at china and korea last season in the wet by 50 and 30 seconds? That is the sort of speed advantage that only the best wet weather drivers have. Once again there is no evidence of anything you are suggesting. And you call yourself an Alonso fan? Maybe you should pay a bit closer attention to his races.



#9274 VXT

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 01:49

As far as I´m concerned the 2007 Ferrari and Mclaren were roughly the same speed wise.


And that is your fatal mistake. You wronly assumed the cars were equal because you wrongly assumed Kimi was on the level of Alonso. Instead of assumption, you should work from certainties and facts, like the fact that Alonso is much faster than Massa in equal cars, which means the 2007 Ferrari MUST have been the fastest by far.

#9275 VXT

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 01:52

Well comparing 2008 Massa with 2010 Massa, both of whom drove a car capable of taking its driver to gp wins and the wdc (so close both years!), the difference is dramatic:


A car capable of taking Massa to wins and the wdc is a very different car to one that can take Alonso to wins and the dwc. The 2008 Ferrari was dominant, while the 2010 ferrari was just fast, and Alonso made the difference. Cant you see that in your comparison you are equating Alonso and Massa as equal?

#9276 VXT

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 01:58

You would be very wrong. Most in the paddock believe Vettel is the best at the moment.


So you speak for the entire f1 paddock do you? :lol:

Funny thing is so do I , and they all don't rate vettel.

Edited by VXT, 03 July 2011 - 01:58.


#9277 VXT

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 06:58

Exactly, Alonso is the most complete driver, but not the quickest.



I am always amazed when I hear this, as its almost become a popular myth about Alonso, that he lacks out right raw speed. Its amazing because there is no evidence to even suggest this infact the direct opposite.

Despite being inexperienced he matched qualifying master trulli in qualifying, in the very difficult one lap shoot out system.
Destroyed qualifying experts, Fisichella and Massa.
Matched Hamilton despite not liking the tyres of that year.
Over the last 4 years his qualifying record is 62-4.
His career qualifying record sits at over 70% which is among the best of all time.

So with all that in mind, why would you have the impression he lacks speed to anyone on the grid?? And how does vettel beating mark webber outweigh all the above?

In terms of raw speed, Hamilton looked very impressive until last year and since has not been very impressive in qualifying against plodder Button. Being only 2-3 tenths quicker than Button is hardly worthy of the fastest driver on the planet tag. If Button was that close to Alonso in equal cars, no one would be saying he was the fastest.

In the last 2 years especially, Alonso has been by far the most impressive driver in qualifying, showing amazing consistency and speed against a fantastic and proven qualifying driver who was better than Kimi over a lap. I think the low fuel qualifying suits Alonso more than the previous system on cruising around on race fuel. He did beat Hamilton 10-7 in low fuel Q2 when they were team mates as well.

Edited by VXT, 03 July 2011 - 07:00.


#9278 Fontainebleau

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 19:19

Results are related to car, and spa is a very car dependant track, so you are confusing his cars not being strong at spa with Alonso's driving. As a driver Alonso is as strong at spa as anywhere else.

2004 - retired from the lead in a renault
2005 - finished second behind the untouchable mclaren
2007 - dominated lewis hamilton in equal machinery
2008- 4th in a rubbish car.
2009 - racing for a strong finish but racing incident ruined his race
2010, everthing went wrong.

So no evidence of Alonso struggling at Spa or not gelling with it.

Just because Alonso hounded Massa in the R28 does not mean it was a fantastic car. he has proven he can do that in without a fantastic car.

That was exactly the point I was making, so I am a bit confused about your post - were you agreeing or disagreeing with me? :drunk:


Strange. How was he able to beat Massa at china and korea last season in the wet by 50 and 30 seconds? That is the sort of speed advantage that only the best wet weather drivers have. Once again there is no evidence of anything you are suggesting. And you call yourself an Alonso fan? Maybe you should pay a bit closer attention to his races.

And maybe you should pay a bit more of attention to the posts you are quoting, because the text you quoted above is not mine! :lol: :p

Edited by Fontainebleau, 03 July 2011 - 19:21.


#9279 Callisto

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 21:20

There is a fiat 500 ad on the tv in the uk atm,with alonso in,wierdly its not alonsos voice,being as he speaks excelent english

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#9280 Unbiased

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 21:28

So you speak for the entire f1 paddock do you? :lol:

Funny thing is so do I , and they all don't rate vettel.


I said most, not entire, get it right ;)

And you must be talking to Hamilton's entourage exclusively then if you say the ones you speak to do not rate Vettel. As far as I know, they are the only ones who have this huge negative thing against Vettel. Rest of the paddock rate him as the one delivering the best work at the moment.

#9281 tifosiMac

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 08:11

There is a fiat 500 ad on the tv in the uk atm,with alonso in,wierdly its not alonsos voice,being as he speaks excelent english

I've seen that advert and it made me cringe. The voice they use for Fernando is awful because it sounds nothing like him and seems to be from an older person. Its almsot as bad as the Button head and shoulders ad but by no fault of Fernando. :)

#9282 kosmos

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 07:40

Fernando is on the cover of ABC newspaper today.

Posted Image

The interview is here: http://www.abc.es/20...1107080345.html

Very good interview.

#9283 Kohque

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 08:04

Fernando is on the cover of ABC newspaper today.

Posted Image

The interview is here: http://www.abc.es/20...1107080345.html

Very good interview.

Thanks for sharing. I take these two:

- Who is better, Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel?

Both are very great pilots. If I have to choose, I'll choose Hamilton. I know him more because I shared team with him and his level of driving is one step ahead of Vettel.

- What error has been corrected thanks to the experience?

-Now I know Formula 1. It's a different sport. There are sporting, economic, political interests ... Only like that you can enjoy F1. If you want to be only a pilot and have fun, you have to go karting or small formulas, where there are only wheels, motors and valves ... In F1 you must understand that there will be decisions that do not add up, politics and business. When I got to F1, I didn't like it and was not happy. Now I understand it, accept it, I stopped thinking about it and I am one hundred percent happy.

#9284 arknor

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 08:24

who is being daft? Kimi showed you don't necessarily ;)

being serious, maybe he will get the car for that race.

didnt they put a stop to driving off the track and overtaking everyone on yur own private road?

#9285 YellowHelmet

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 11:16

The deciding weekend.

and the weather wanna play a deciding role, too.
(although on sunday it should not rain).


I hope, that this weekend will bring a change that will stop the dominance of RB and bring us a better show, with hopefully alonso being the guy to beat.

#9286 puxanando

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 12:01

Alonso: "At the same time, this race is one where we know we are going to suffer because of the characteristics of the circuit."

):

#9287 Disgrace

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 15:03

Both are very great pilots. If I have to choose, I'll choose Hamilton.


To be fair, after 2007, he is always going to say that.

#9288 ArtShelley

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 15:43

Seriously, we may as well all go home if this diffuser farce turns out to be as bad as it currently seems.

#9289 Kohque

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 16:03

To be fair, after 2007, he is always going to say that.

No idea why he thinks that way, but that is new for me.




#9290 Totza

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 16:06

No idea why he thinks that way, but that is new for me.

Most likely because anyone can drive the RB and win with ease.

#9291 Buttoneer

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 16:10

Most likely because anyone can drive the RB and win with ease.

You should pause to think before you post rubbish like this.

#9292 YellowHelmet

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 16:10

Most likely because anyone can drive the RB and win with ease.

and why not webber?

i dont think that it is wise to answer such questions (if he really has done that).

it is better to stay diplomatic and say, both are great and both have they strong and weak points like everybody.

#9293 Disgrace

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 16:22

No idea why he thinks that way, but that is new for me.


Without going into detail that has been discussed for years ad nauseam, Hamilton and Alonso were equally-matched in 2007, Alonso the double champ, Hamilton the rookie.

Alonso is basically saying that Vettel is not better than him, which of course, any driver would say.

#9294 Kohque

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 16:36

Without going into detail that has been discussed for years ad nauseam, Hamilton and Alonso were equally-matched in 2007, Alonso the double champ, Hamilton the rookie.

Alonso is basically saying that Vettel is not better than him, which of course, any driver would say.

No, I understand why you say that. I am just saying that I really don't know the reasons and I am not going to bring guesses based on my own preconceived ideas. I found it curious, but I am not that interested. To be honest, I am more surprised when he says karts are more fun than Formula 1 (I have being enjoying the pinnacle of racing fun and I didn't know it! :lol: )

Edited by Kohque, 08 July 2011 - 16:39.


#9295 YellowHelmet

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 10:53

It may be our weekend.

Alooonso, Alooonso, Alooonso :)

#9296 kosmos

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 11:09

Indeed, if FP3 times are representative of RB and Ferraris pace, maybe today is the day. Let's wait with hope but also knowing that RB is very strong, with EBD or without it.

#9297 MichaelPM

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 11:15

Silverstone is the perfect storm for Ferrari to do badly, I still doubt there is a win on merit here but I will change my mind if we are in a great position with 75% of the race done tomorrow.

Racism claims have hit the main EBD ban thread now, so we must be nearing the end of all this :lol:

#9298 kosmos

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 13:07

Rain is a frikin' joke :mad: , P3 is nice anyway.

#9299 zeph

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 13:15

P3 is not bad. :up: Happy to see Massa up there as well.


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#9300 YellowHelmet

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 13:22

very good ride by alonso :up:
it was a pleasure to watch.

the rain took us some action and nail biting away, but okay, tomorrow the points are awarded,
and i am waiting for 25 points for alonso