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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#9451 SCUDmissile

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 09:28

Yeah, I noted that in one of my previous post as well. It will be interesting to know how they arrived at the conclusion that the only reason Alonso won, as per the headline, was the temporary regulation change... If Ferrari win in Germany I expect to hear that the FIA have found another way to slow down Red Bull especially here in the forums because Ferrari receive more money, have a technical veto and receive favours from the authorities. Todt, above all things, has Rosso Corsa running through his veins.

It's hard being a Ferrari fan on the Autosport forums.

OT, but you mean from the FOM?

well that is completely resonable. FOM are concerned with the promotion of that sport, and i agree no team is as big as the sport, but Ferrari brings more fans to the sport than any other team, so why not?

if they went to LeMans, i guarantee that there would be a massive increase in people watching that. Also, you go to most race meetings, and apart from maybe the British GP, Ferrari normally have more flags than anyother. so it is logical to assume that since they bring more fans and promote the sport more, that they get more money from the promoter.

its like Tyson Fury saying it isnt fair that Wladimir Klitschko gets more money from a hypothetical fight. but the simple fact is, Wlad brings more punters. i wish people understood this.

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#9452 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 17:30

They haven't said sorry about misrepresenting Ferrari's Sunday morning stance to a final rule agreement, either. :down:


And it appears they don't intend to:

A bid to find unanimous support for the ban to be ditched stalled on Sunday morning, however, when Ferrari and Sauber declined to accept the move during a lengthy meeting. However, by Sunday evening the situation had changed and both teams suggested they would be willing to agree for the rules to revert back to how they were in Valencia.


I'm *so* close to canceling my subscription.

#9453 puxanando

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 18:09

Fantastic day :)

#9454 kosmos

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 03:48

Great inteview with Andrea Stella on Formula Santander, some highlights:

he is a team leader, he is very constructive and positive.


Fernando knows that to win he needs the team.


I expected that he would be the one to get most frequently angry with his team. But in reality, he only gets angry when he believes that something isn't fair, that there has been foul play. That is when Fernando goes a little crazy.


Ring a bell, McLaren?.

Fernando I would say is technically very well prepared for any type of circumstance, whether in the wet or the dry, and that he has a lot of mental strength, both analytical and intuitive


I think from the driving point of view, he is having a very good season.


He is mentally very strong.



http://www.formulasa...es/hola-paddock

You can change to english in the right up corner in case the text is in spanish.

Edited by kosmos, 15 July 2011 - 03:49.


#9455 fabr68

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 04:04

Ok, another 10 for Alonso,


Australia Alonso 7
Malaysia Alonso 7
China Alonso - 7
Turkey Alonso - 10
Spain Alonso 10
Monaco Alonso 10
Canada Alonso 7
Valencia Alonso 10
Silverstone Alonso 10

Average: 8.6

Lovely to read Edd Straw, in order to give credit to Alonso or writting stuff like this: "When the car that isn't quite the best -in other words, the current Ferrari- he still the driver who the likes of Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel truly fear.", first he have the need to remember the crashgate in the first line of the column. Oh, the bitterness.

Adrew van de Burgt [Autosport editor]:"Ferrari and Fernando Alonso clearly did a brillant job. It's just pity that we don't know whether they won on merit, or it's because some teams had one arm tied behind their back." :drunk:

What about they won on merit showing that Ferrari has done a real progress in this race but helped to some degree (yet to be seen) by the regulations?.

It's so hard to be fair when it comes to Alonso and Ferrari.


:drunk:
Vettel only dominates because of the car and because he does not have to overtake anyone.

Alonso/Ferrari win because of team orders, cheating or FIA help

Is there one driver and one team out there that win on pure merit? Please don't say it.

This is the exact reason why I don't suscribe to these reports. I know it is purely subjective and directly proportional on how much the writter likes the team/driver.


#9456 puxanando

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 16:50

"Alonso is on tremendous form and it will be interesting to see what he and Ferrari can achieve in the next 10 races." - Martin Brundle


#9457 Alarcon

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 17:11

"Alonso is on tremendous form and it will be interesting to see what he and Ferrari can achieve in the next 10 races." - Martin Brundle



Doesn´t matter what he can achieve, the important thing is what he achieved actually. And here Sebastian Vettel is on much more tremendous form and has no "pressure" because the "pressure" is now is for Alonso. The german had 92 points and if on 1 race he´s OUT and Alonso wins, the difference still stands on 67 points (almost 3 races!!!), however if Fernando is OUT and Vettel wins the difference will be... 117 points with only 9 races to run. You know, on the first 9 races Alonso got 112 points...




#9458 Ferrari2183

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 17:34

Doesn´t matter what he can achieve, the important thing is what he achieved actually. And here Sebastian Vettel is on much more tremendous form and has no "pressure" because the "pressure" is now is for Alonso. The german had 92 points and if on 1 race he´s OUT and Alonso wins, the difference still stands on 67 points (almost 3 races!!!), however if Fernando is OUT and Vettel wins the difference will be... 117 points with only 9 races to run. You know, on the first 9 races Alonso got 112 points...

I actually think Alonso has less pressure because he is a veeeeeeeery long shot for the title whereas Vettel is expected to win it. Should Alonso start eating into that lead at a significant rate then the closer he gets the more pressure he will be under as well as Vettel.

#9459 naiboz

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 17:39

the reality is that the championships are 90% gone

if Alonso is going to have any chance of catching Vettel, we need Massa, Hamilton, Button and Webber to be finishing in front of Vettel and taking points from him.

without that, it's 90% gone

:(

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#9460 Hole

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 22:35

Alonso has nothing to prove and he still has time to win more championships. I'm happy anyway because he's back to not making serious mistakes and being very solid on raceday. If he keeps on being like that and Ferrari keeps on improving, important achievements will come (unfortunately for his haters :p)

#9461 yr

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 18:50

This is from a guy who has been working with MS, KR and FA: "You have worked with Michael, with Kimi and with Fernando. They are very different world champions, aren't they?

Yes, the truth is yes. Michael I would say has natural talent, but he is persistent and analytical. Fernando I would say is technically very well prepared for any type of circumstance, whether in the wet or the dry, and that he has a lot of mental strength, both analytical and intuitive. And Kimi (he pauses and thinks what he is going to say), I think that Kimi is the best in a particular set of circumstances, but only in that set of circumstances, and he is definitely very intuitive.

Source: http://formulasantan...ng-stay-hopeful

Now, all I read here is, how Alonso beating Massa is an evidence of him being better than Kimi also, is that right? His engineer who has all the reasons in the world to talk up his current driver, is not saying Fernando is best by far, howcome? And to top it all, that was an interview on Santander page were the questions were not lacking bias, but still they couldnt squeeze "Fernando is the best, easily" out of him. Funny.

#9462 Watkins74

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 18:56

This is from a guy who has been working with MS, KR and FA: "You have worked with Michael, with Kimi and with Fernando. They are very different world champions, aren't they?

Yes, the truth is yes. Michael I would say has natural talent, but he is persistent and analytical. Fernando I would say is technically very well prepared for any type of circumstance, whether in the wet or the dry, and that he has a lot of mental strength, both analytical and intuitive. And Kimi (he pauses and thinks what he is going to say), I think that Kimi is the best in a particular set of circumstances, but only in that set of circumstances, and he is definitely very intuitive.

Source: http://formulasantan...ng-stay-hopeful

Now, all I read here is, how Alonso beating Massa is an evidence of him being better than Kimi also, is that right? His engineer who has all the reasons in the world to talk up his current driver, is not saying Fernando is best by far, howcome? And to top it all, that was an interview on Santander page were the questions were not lacking bias, but still they couldnt squeeze "Fernando is the best, easily" out of him. Funny.

Funny...but I don't read that as a great endorsement of Kimi. He infers Kimi has narrow performance window. I will see how others interpret these words.

BTW - I love how you never miss a chance to diss that evil Satander. :lol:

#9463 as65p

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 19:00

This is from a guy who has been working with MS, KR and FA: "You have worked with Michael, with Kimi and with Fernando. They are very different world champions, aren't they?

Yes, the truth is yes. Michael I would say has natural talent, but he is persistent and analytical. Fernando I would say is technically very well prepared for any type of circumstance, whether in the wet or the dry, and that he has a lot of mental strength, both analytical and intuitive. And Kimi (he pauses and thinks what he is going to say), I think that Kimi is the best in a particular set of circumstances, but only in that set of circumstances, and he is definitely very intuitive.

Source: http://formulasantan...ng-stay-hopeful

Now, all I read here is, how Alonso beating Massa is an evidence of him being better than Kimi also, is that right? His engineer who has all the reasons in the world to talk up his current driver, is not saying Fernando is best by far, howcome? And to top it all, that was an interview on Santander page were the questions were not lacking bias, but still they couldnt squeeze "Fernando is the best, easily" out of him. Funny.


Funny indeed, because he's saying that KR shines only under very particular and specific conditions. Which tallies perfectly with his two years against Massa, sometimes he looked like the clearly better driver but often enough he looked pretty ordinary. Then he's saying that Alonso is well prepared for any type of circumstance.

And you still have difficulties spotting which of the two he considers the overall better driver? Yep, funny... :D

#9464 yr

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 19:09

Funny indeed, because he's saying that KR shines only under very particular and specific conditions. Which tallies perfectly with his two years against Massa, sometimes he looked like the clearly better driver but often enough he looked pretty ordinary. Then he's saying that Alonso is well prepared for any type of circumstance.

And you still have difficulties spotting which of the two he considers the overall better driver? Yep, funny... :D



Where did he say that Kimi shines only "under very particular conditions"? As far as I know, he could have mean that Kimi is only great whenever it is not a newyears day and clock is not between 5 am and 6 am or something like that. If you want to have your own imaginary take about the things he said, by all means please do, but dont try to twist it as a fact.

#9465 figue

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 19:12

Where did he say that Kimi shines only "under very particular conditions"? As far as I know, he could have mean that Kimi is only great whenever it is not a newyears day and clock is not between 5 am and 6 am or something like that. If you want to have your own imaginary take about the things he said, by all means please do, but dont try to twist it as a fact.


Kimi is the best in a particular set of circumstances, but only in that set of circumstances

it's pretty clear to everyone but you apparently

#9466 yr

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 19:12

Funny...but I don't read that as a great endorsement of Kimi. He infers Kimi has narrow performance window. I will see how others interpret these words.

BTW - I love how you never miss a chance to diss that evil Satander. :lol:


He didnt infer a narrow performance window for Kimi, you did.

Oh, and I dont think Santander is evil at all, they bought a seat for their driver and thats the part of this sport, it has happend before and it will happen again.

#9467 yr

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 19:17

Kimi is the best in a particular set of circumstances, but only in that set of circumstances

it's pretty clear to everyone but you apparently


How is it more clear to you than it is to me? Perhaps you could explain? You have been talking with him and thus you know what he mean?

#9468 Skinnyguy

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 19:21

Now that´s curious. 7 very good years, 2 boogies, and the lazy guy has a narrow operative window. Good try from Ferrari to try and blame only him for not performing well while working toghether, but his full career suggests a totally different picture.

#9469 Ferrari2183

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 19:29

Now that´s curious. 7 very good years, 2 boogies, and the lazy guy has a narrow operative window. Good try from Ferrari to try and blame only him for not performing well while working toghether, but his full career suggests a totally different picture.

Blame Ferrari... They asked the race engineer of all three drivers and he answered. Anyway, this is not the first time I've heard this, Someone from McLaren said the exact same thing.

#9470 Skinnyguy

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 19:40

Blame Ferrari... They asked the race engineer of all three drivers and he answered. Anyway, this is not the first time I've heard this, Someone from McLaren said the exact same thing.


I´m not blaming anyone, just pointing out the pathetic try from Ferrari to blame him.

That X guy from Mclaren can say whatever he wants, if what you say is true. He saved their ass from shame in an era when the team DID SUCK, he drove fast anything they threw at him, good or bad.

#9471 Ferrari2183

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 20:02

I´m not blaming anyone, just pointing out the pathetic try from Ferrari to blame him.

That X guy from Mclaren can say whatever he wants, if what you say is true. He saved their ass from shame in an era when the team DID SUCK, he drove fast anything they threw at him, good or bad.

Blame him for what exactly? I don't see them blaming anybody... :confused:

Regarding his tenure at Ferrari. Kimi had an excellent 2007 and an average 2008. He couldn't adapt to the new suspension, no? Had a tough first half of 2009 and later improved. Every time something changed, whether it be a part (suspension) or Massa's injury (focus was on Kimi), his performance either went up or down. That does suggest he has a narrow performance window.

#9472 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 20:12

How is it more clear to you than it is to me? Perhaps you could explain? You have been talking with him and thus you know what he mean?


I don't know what to say. It's a very simple sentence, "I think that Kimi is the best in a particular set of circumstances, but only in that set of circumstances". Maybe this sentence is invisible to you. fnord


#9473 AlanWake

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 20:13

Andrea Stella said once in an interview that when the car IS perfect KR is the fastest... but when the car isn't very good and is difficult to drive Alonso is the best. According to him, Fernando is a mixture between Michael (analytical driver) and Kimi (intuitive driver).

#9474 Fontainebleau

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 20:16

This is from a guy who has been working with MS, KR and FA: "You have worked with Michael, with Kimi and with Fernando. They are very different world champions, aren't they?

Yes, the truth is yes. Michael I would say has natural talent, but he is persistent and analytical. Fernando I would say is technically very well prepared for any type of circumstance, whether in the wet or the dry, and that he has a lot of mental strength, both analytical and intuitive. And Kimi (he pauses and thinks what he is going to say), I think that Kimi is the best in a particular set of circumstances, but only in that set of circumstances, and he is definitely very intuitive.

Source: http://formulasantan...ng-stay-hopeful

Now, all I read here is, how Alonso beating Massa is an evidence of him being better than Kimi also, is that right? His engineer who has all the reasons in the world to talk up his current driver, is not saying Fernando is best by far, howcome? And to top it all, that was an interview on Santander page were the questions were not lacking bias, but still they couldnt squeeze "Fernando is the best, easily" out of him. Funny.

What I find very funny is how you try to present the interview in a way that Alonso is painted in the worst possible light :p When is Stella asked who is the best of the three WDCs he has worked with? Which bias have you perceived in the questions asked?

#9475 yr

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 20:33

I don't know what to say. It's a very simple sentence, "I think that Kimi is the best in a particular set of circumstances, but only in that set of circumstances". Maybe this sentence is invisible to you. fnord


Yes, it is a very simple sentence, it´s just that you are reading what you want from it and then you want everyone to agree with what you thought to be his point, no? "Best in a particular circumstances" could mean anything from being best if the world is still round, instead of being flat, to being best only if all the stars in the sky are in exactly the right position. Question is, how in the hell do you know what those "particular set of circumstances"are? Are you a psychic?

#9476 puxanando

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 20:34

Alonso is lot better than Kimi!! Thats 'fact'! :p

#9477 as65p

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 20:39

Yes, it is a very simple sentence, it´s just that you are reading what you want from it and then you want everyone to agree with what you thought to be his point, no? "Best in a particular circumstances" could mean anything from being best if the world is still round, instead of being flat, to being best only if all the stars in the sky are in exactly the right position. Question is, how in the hell do you know what those "particular set of circumstances"are? Are you a psychic?


Let's just say you've been a bit unlucky to chose that particular interview for your purpose. Apparently you're interpretation of it is very specific, and different to most other peoples, unfortunately. :D

#9478 MichaelPM

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 20:40

Alonso is lot better than Kimi!! Thats 'fact'! :p

+1*∞ :up:

#9479 yr

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 20:42

What I find very funny is how you try to present the interview in a way that Alonso is painted in the worst possible light :p When is Stella asked who is the best of the three WDCs he has worked with? Which bias have you perceived in the questions asked?


When Stella was asked about MS/KR/FA he didnt put any of those in first place. He basically says that all those guys have strengths over others, but doesnt single out any of them to be better than the others, right? That is funny because Fernando is current Ferrari driver and usually team members are giving most credit for current drivers - not for yesterdays stars. Its in everybodys interest in Ferrari to talk up Alonso, but he doesnt do that, instead he seem to think all three WDC drivers he has worked with, are about equal - each with his own strenghts.

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#9480 Ferrari2183

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 20:47

Let's just say you've been a bit unlucky to chose that particular interview for your purpose. Apparently you're interpretation of it is very specific, and different to most other peoples, unfortunately. :D

He/She is clutching at straws. As if the world being flat would somehow make Kimi a better driver as opposed to it being round. Maybe the adjusted gravitational pull would give Kimi more downforce and the others less. We live in magical times...

#9481 yr

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 20:47

Let's just say you've been a bit unlucky to chose that particular interview for your purpose. Apparently you're interpretation of it is very specific, and different to most other peoples, unfortunately. :D


Well, it certainly differs from Alonso fanboys interpretation, there´s no denying that. :wave:

#9482 Ferrari2183

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 20:53

Well, it certainly differs from Alonso fanboys interpretation, there´s no denying that. :wave:

This is not about fanboys. Their race engineer was asked a question and he hasn't exactly painted Kimi in glory with that statement. In fact he pointed out the others strengths and gave Kimi a miss apart from the intuitive part.

#9483 yr

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 21:08

This is not about fanboys. Their race engineer was asked a question and he hasn't exactly painted Kimi in glory with that statement. In fact he pointed out the others strengths and gave Kimi a miss apart from the intuitive part.


That debends on your interpretation, doesnt it? For example, Kimi is the only driver who he refers with the word "best". He didnt call Alonso or Scumacher "best in this or that" but he DID call Kimi Best at certain circumstances. You can ignore that all you want, but the truth is, he didnt exactly praise MS or FA in a higher note than what he did with Kimi.

#9484 DrewishPrince

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 21:10

That debends on your interpretation, doesnt it? For example, Kimi is the only driver who he refers with the word "best". He didnt call Alonso or Scumacher "best in this or that" but he DID call Kimi Best at certain circumstances. You can ignore that all you want, but the truth is, he didnt exactly praise MS or FA in a higher note than what he did with Kimi.

Are you serious? Please.....

#9485 Kimiraikkonen

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 21:11

Alonso is lot better than Kimi!! Thats 'fact'! :p



jajaja :clap: is it your dream?

Kimi first year WDC, Alonso has WDC in black and white.... muahhahaha

Alonso who? :blush:

Edited by Kimiraikkonen, 17 July 2011 - 21:12.


#9486 Skellen

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 21:13

Poor yr still living in past... Do you really think that if Raikkonen was not dissapointing for Ferrari they would fire him, even with Santander cash on sight? You are living in another world, wake up! You all time come to this thread to moan about that how SF were unfair to Raikkonen. You are trying very hard (today with your quite strange interpretation of interview). Noone takes you and your illogical theories seriously.

#9487 figue

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 21:14

That debends on your interpretation, doesnt it? For example, Kimi is the only driver who he refers with the word "best". He didnt call Alonso or Scumacher "best in this or that" but he DID call Kimi Best at certain circumstances. You can ignore that all you want, but the truth is, he didnt exactly praise MS or FA in a higher note than what he did with Kimi.



seriously man, you are embarrasing yourself in front of a lot of people. Sometimes is good to accept an error, there is nothing wrong with that.

your interpretation of the sentence is absolutely wrong. get over it

#9488 Fontainebleau

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 21:15

When Stella was asked about MS/KR/FA he didnt put any of those in first place. He basically says that all those guys have strengths over others, but doesnt single out any of them to be better than the others, right? That is funny because Fernando is current Ferrari driver and usually team members are giving most credit for current drivers - not for yesterdays stars. Its in everybodys interest in Ferrari to talk up Alonso, but he doesnt do that, instead he seem to think all three WDC drivers he has worked with, are about equal - each with his own strenghts.

Have you considered that maybe you are wrong in thinking that Ferrari is bent on talking up Alonso? That when they praise him they are sincere? That Ferrari as a team respects its own history, rather than badmouthing previous drivers? And, finally, that Stella has had a personal relationship with the three guys he was asked about, and may simply like all of them?

When asked who was the world's best driver, Domenicalli said Schumacher. Should we read that he is going to fire Alonso anytime soon?  ;)

Edited by Fontainebleau, 17 July 2011 - 21:18.


#9489 Skellen

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 21:17

jajaja :clap: is it your dream?

Kimi first year WDC, Alonso has WDC in black and white.... muahhahaha

Alonso who? :blush:


Ha! The only thing, which can be used in favor of Raikkonen repeated over and over again. Now, where would you place F2007 and F10? Which one was better car across the grid? Of course you forgot that fact.

#9490 Seanspeed

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 21:19

That debends on your interpretation, doesnt it? For example, Kimi is the only driver who he refers with the word "best". He didnt call Alonso or Scumacher "best in this or that" but he DID call Kimi Best at certain circumstances. You can ignore that all you want, but the truth is, he didnt exactly praise MS or FA in a higher note than what he did with Kimi.

I'm a Kimi fan and the interview clearly does not paint a favorable picture of Kimi compared to Alonso, sorry. And its a very justifiable statement as well. No matter what happened at Mclaren or even Sauber, when Kimi arrived at Ferrari, his performances were certainly very up and down, so it makes a lot of sense for a Ferrari employee to say that he's only good in certain circumstances. It should have been apparent to anyone watching F1 during that period, really.

Alonso has shown that while he's not infallible, he rarely has 'off days' like Kimi quite often had and Massa still has all the time. Its what makes Alonso a step above Kimi. Even when the car isn't up to par, he's usually at least still beating his teammate by a noticeable margin - again something that Kimi couldn't do often enough.

I'm honestly struggling to figure out your motivation for your obviously desperate argument. Are you a Kimi fan or do you just really dislike Alonso?

#9491 Fontainebleau

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 21:19

jajaja :clap: is it your dream?

Kimi first year WDC, Alonso has WDC in black and white.... muahhahaha

Alonso who? :blush:

I take it that you are a Barcelona supporter... :p

PS For those who are not Spanish, the joke is the following: Real Madrid had won 6 European Champions by 1966, but then had a long period without winning. Barcelona won its first in 1992, and in order to defend that single title versus Madrid's 6, the typical line of its supporters was that the Madrid wins were " in black and white" (referring to the fact that 1966 had been so long ago that TVs were black-and-white then).

Obviously using that line does not make sense now, since Madrid won the Cup a further three times (which are more recent than Barcelona's first win) - funnily enough, it is still used. ;)

Edited by Fontainebleau, 17 July 2011 - 21:33.


#9492 Vesuvius

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 21:24

the fact is Stella is good friends with Kimi and Stella was very sad when Kimi left the team. Stella has said many good things about kimi, like last weekend after Alonso's win he said that the victory that he has the strongest feel of hapiness is kimi's win brazil 2007 but that he enjoys also all the wins he took together with all three alonso,schumi and kimi

#9493 Watkins74

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 21:29

Well they did it again. The Kimi fans have lead another successful invasion into another non-Kimi thread.



#9494 yr

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 21:29

seriously man, you are embarrasing yourself in front of a lot of people. Sometimes is good to accept an error, there is nothing wrong with that.

your interpretation of the sentence is absolutely wrong. get over it


Ok, so here is evaluates in a nutshell for KR/MS/FA:

MS: Natural talent, persistent, analytical.
FA: Technically very well prepared, mentally strong, analytical, intuitive.
KR: Best in particular circumstances, very intuitive.

So excuse me, if I dont see where I am going so wrong that I am embarrassing myself.



#9495 yr

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 21:36

Even when the car isn't up to par, he's usually at least still beating his teammate by a noticeable margin - again something that Kimi couldn't do often enough.


Do you honestly believe that Massa has same support and enviroment to beat his teammate nowadays as he had when he had Kimi as a teammate? I mean the days when there was no Santander paying the bills?

Edit: spelling.

Edited by yr, 17 July 2011 - 21:37.


#9496 Seanspeed

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 21:36

Ok, so here is evaluates in a nutshell for KR/MS/FA:

MS: Natural talent, persistent, analytical.
FA: Technically very well prepared, mentally strong, analytical, intuitive.
KR: Best in particular circumstances, very intuitive.

So excuse me, if I dont see where I am going so wrong that I am embarrassing myself.

The obvious issue is that you read the interview and came up with this conclusion:

Now, all I read here is, how Alonso beating Massa is an evidence of him being better than Kimi also, is that right? His engineer who has all the reasons in the world to talk up his current driver, is not saying Fernando is best by far, howcome? And to top it all, that was an interview on Santander page were the questions were not lacking bias, but still they couldnt squeeze "Fernando is the best, easily" out of him. Funny.

You did exactly what you accused somebody else of doing, and thats to see exactly what you wanted to see and nothing more. And the fact that nobody else interpreted it the same way doesn't mean you're automatically wrong, but I think its fairly clear that your interpretation probably isn't the most obvious one.

#9497 Fontainebleau

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 21:39

Ok, so here is evaluates in a nutshell for KR/MS/FA:

MS: Natural talent, persistent, analytical.
FA: Technically very well prepared, mentally strong, analytical, intuitive.
KR: Best in particular circumstances, very intuitive.

So excuse me, if I dont see where I am going so wrong that I am embarrassing myself.

If I am not mistaken, people think that you are very wrong in trying to use that evaluation as proof that Stella might be hinting that Raikkonen is better than Alonso.

#9498 Fontainebleau

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 21:39

Do you honestly believe that Massa has same support and enviroment to beat his teammate nowadays as he had when he had Kimi as a teammate? I mean the days when there was no Santander paying the bills?

Edit: spelling.

Interestingly, Santander's key market is not Spain, but Brazil

Edited by Fontainebleau, 17 July 2011 - 21:40.


#9499 DrewishPrince

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 21:40

It's in fact really incredible to what lengths will Kimi fans go in bending the truth, fabricating the facts, misinterpreting quotes, use selective memory, etc....all in order to paint a completely false image of their hero.

There are respectable quotes from both McLaren and Ferrari confirming that Kimi is a very fast driver who requires a particular set of circumstances to shine. Common sense after watching his races tells us exactly the same thing. Yet, those quotes are deliberately twisted, misinterpreted or neglected.

On the other side, if a Mclaren mechanic says (probably out of politeness) that Kimi gave them good feedback, that's immediately interpreted by some as "McLaren mechanic still rave after all these years about the feedback Kimi used to give them."

I can imagine the following scene: Brazil 2008. The rain is falling stronger and stronger and Hamilton is struggling. Several Mclaren mechanics watch the scene breathlessly. Massa has just crossed the line in first place and Hamilton needs to make up one more place to win the first title for McLaren since 1999. The emotions run high, the atmosphere is unbelievably tense. Then Hamilton manages to pass Glock and score the points required for the WDC! The whole McLaren pit erupts in celebration!

However, the atmosphere quickly calms down.

A mechanic turns to his colleague. "Are you thinking the same what I'm thinking?" "Yes. This is all great, we won the WDC but I can't stop thinking about all those beautiful feedbacks Kimi used to give us. Without them I feel somehow empty." "Yes, those feedbacks were quite somethin', weren't they, pal?" "I keep dreaming about them." "Me too...."

And that's how certain Kimi fans would like to paint the reality to us.

Edited by DrewishPrince, 17 July 2011 - 21:48.


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#9500 Seanspeed

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 21:44

Do you honestly believe that Massa has same support and enviroment to beta his teammate nowadays as he had when he had Kimi as a teammate? I mean the days when there was no Santander paying the bills?

Yea, clearly Ferrari would be in serious trouble without Santander's money. :rolleyes:

And yes, I believe Massa has had every bit the same amount of support that he had when he was against Kimi. Kimi's paycheck was just as much a nod to him being potentially favored within the team, too, dont forget.