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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#9901 Slartibartfast

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 11:26

Yes, but as I said above, Alonso's offs kept putting him behind slower cars which ultimately led to him being stuck behind a slower Webber for a good part of the race.

So his mistakes were more costly, no?

Costly insomuch as they probably cost him places? Yes, I agree that makes them more costly than Button's since Button still went on to win. More costly than Massa's? Massa lost more time and parts of his car, but I don't think he was going to be on the podium anyway so one could argue that Massa lost less. More costly than Hamilton's? Not sure about that. More costly than Ferrari's strategy decisions? Yes, I think so.

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#9902 Ferrari2183

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 11:41

Costly insomuch as they probably cost him places? Yes, I agree that makes them more costly than Button's since Button still went on to win. More costly than Massa's? Massa lost more time and parts of his car, but I don't think he was going to be on the podium anyway so one could argue that Massa lost less. More costly than Hamilton's? Not sure about that. More costly than Ferrari's strategy decisions? Yes, I think so.

The way I see it is that his mistakes led to his strategy. I really don't think that they planned a 4 stopper, but they had to go aggressive in order to jump Webber and find some clear air. With the pace Alonso showed, scrapping with Webber shows how costly his mistakes were.

#9903 Alarcon

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 11:59

In my opinion Vettel is the best driver on wet, by far.

I,ll rate Alonso as good as Lewis, both are very nice drivers on that conditions.

And I,m not speaking just on that race but on the whole career. Obviously it comes much difficult when you need to overtake some car in front or your car isn,t as good.

P.D. Of course Schumacher V1.0 was a rainmaster.

Edited by Alarcon, 01 August 2011 - 12:00.


#9904 as65p

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 12:15

Can you explain to me where exactly the strategy went wrong? Because I can't see it. I thought his first stop was well timed and putting him on options at his 3rd stop was critical based on the timing of it because he went ballistic in those 4 - 6 laps when everyone on a 3 stopper were extending their stints. His final stop was perfectly timed as well. The only problem I can see was not going for the undercut at the second stop...

The problem with Alonso's race was that his offs were costly in that it put him behind slower cars when the others got away with theirs. So yes, Alonso's offs were costly.


Well, for a start they could have put him on slicks earlier. Then those first laps after his 3rd stops where mighty fast, but really only a bonfire. IIRC correctly, his times dropped quite a bit after that. So just maybe it would have been the better decision to put him on primes to try and make it to the end?

I know all those possibilities could have gone wrong too, even dramatically. But after all that talk before of going risky, I duly expected something more adventurous, I thought the strategies were pretty conservative in the end.

And just to make that clear again, I'm not at all trying to deny the effect of Alonsos driving errors with all this. Had he been completely error free, he could have won with the actual strategies, but then again no driver managed that on the day.

#9905 GerhardBerger

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 12:20

In my opinion Vettel is the best driver on wet, by far.

I,ll rate Alonso as good as Lewis, both are very nice drivers on that conditions.

And I,m not speaking just on that race but on the whole career. Obviously it comes much difficult when you need to overtake some car in front or your car isn,t as good.

P.D. Of course Schumacher V1.0 was a rainmaster.


When was the last time Vettel won a wet race? Whilst he's certainly very competent in the wet, he's done nothing to prove that he is the best driver in the wet, by far, as you put it.

#9906 kissTheApex

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 12:29

I'm a long time fan of Alonso and I believe Ferrari2183 is spot on. Exactly what I think about the Hungary race. I actually believe that it was the strategy that got him ahead of Webber after the pit stop. Team may have put him on the slick a bit earlier, but driver is as much (if not more) a part of that decision as the team.

Alonso's strategy was spot on today. I can't see why Ferrari need to blamed for this performance.

I see some are saying that they should have pit Alonso a few laps prior for his first stop... Why would they want to do that when he was the fastest on the track at the time?

His early mistakes and the inability to get heat in the tyres screwed his race after the first pit stop. Which led the team to opt for a more aggressive strategy which included undercutting Webber because he was ruining Alonso's race.

His early mistakes, being stuck behind Webber and tyre temps after the pit stop screwed up his race. Not strategy...

Alonso should accept responsibility for this although it is understandable as he was really pushing.



#9907 SCUDmissile

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 10:36

Alonso up there with Prost, Senna, Schu - Briatore

Flavio Briatore says that Fernando Alonso "is one of the few great drivers" and deserves to beat Michael Schumacher's record of titles at Ferrari.

Briatore, who is still involved in the management of Alonso, ranks the double-world champion alongside the likes of Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost, while also highlighting Michael Schumacher but then describing Alonso as "a little better". Briatore was team principal when Alonso won both his title at Renault and has been linked with a future role at Ferrari, but he said regardless of his presence Alonso can win many more championships.

"I think Fernando Alonso can win the championship at Ferrari without Flavio Briatore," Briatore told Onda Cero. "Fernando deserves to be the best driver in history. He has decided to be with Ferrari until the end of his career and I hope he can get the cars to win more titles than Schumacher.

"If he had that car (the RB7), Fernando would be winning by a huge margin. He is one of the few great drivers with Senna, Prost and Schumacher."

When asked about Alonso's ability compared to Schumacher, Briatore ranked the pair closely but still sided with his current client.

"They are two totally different drivers. Fernando is a little better, because when Michael becomes depressed, he falls back, while in the same situation Fernando's concentration sharpens."

Briatore also refused to rule out a move to Ferrari in the future, despite being banned from an operational role in Formula One until 2013.

"I am a Ferrari tifoso (supporter), but in life you never know - anything can happen."



#9908 sosidge

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 10:41

Alonso up there with Prost, Senna, Schu - Briatore


Coming up on ESPN...

Fuller - Hamilton is better than Prost and Senna combined!


Weber - Schumi is better than Hamilton and Alonso and Vettel combined!

Hamilton - Di Resta is better than Hamilton!

#9909 currupipi

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 12:04

i have really never understood this need to compare drivers and decide which one is better and especially when comparing drivers from different times, sort of reminds me of when we were kids and did peeing contests to see who could pee further, really who gives a shi....

#9910 mrmusicman

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 12:57

If there is one thing Flavio is good at it's judging drivers. He discovered the two best talents of the last 20 years, and used them incredibly well.

#9911 PoleMan

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 14:10

That's bull. He had a great start off the line and was third at the apex of T1, but then got wheelspin accelerating out of T1 and that was where he fell back. The off-track moments came later and of course also cost places.

I'm not quite sure what in my post is "Bull." You admit Alonso was third going into to Turn 1, put a foot wrong (I believe he caught some wet grass or curbing) and let the Mercedes pair get ahead of him. The conditions were certainly tricky for everyone, but Fernando was driving, so he was the responsible party, non?

I also think you misread my criticism. Fernando drove well in the second half of the race. AWESOME, in fact, and he earned the podium he received! But where I found fault was in his comments where he intimated that he "somehow" got behind the Mercedes, when it was his driving errors early in the race that did it. Without those early mistakes, there were porbably higher places on the podium to be had. That's all. I think Alonso fans, and I am certainly a proud member of that group, should not feel they have to support their driver even when they make statements that are contrary to all evidence. Let's leave that for the most irrational Hamilton fans, shall we? ;) Ok, that was a joke, and I'm not looking to poison this thread with a war.

#9912 Ferrari2183

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 14:30

I'm not quite sure what in my post is "Bull." You admit Alonso was third going into to Turn 1, put a foot wrong (I believe he caught some wet grass or curbing) and let the Mercedes pair get ahead of him. The conditions were certainly tricky for everyone, but Fernando was driving, so he was the responsible party, non?

I also think you misread my criticism. Fernando drove well in the second half of the race. AWESOME, in fact, and he earned the podium he received! But where I found fault was in his comments where he intimated that he "somehow" got behind the Mercedes, when it was his driving errors early in the race that did it. Without those early mistakes, there were porbably higher places on the podium to be had. That's all. I think Alonso fans, and I am certainly a proud member of that group, should not feel they have to support their driver even when they make statements that are contrary to all evidence. Let's leave that for the most irrational Hamilton fans, shall we?;) Ok, that was a joke, and I'm not looking to poison this thread with a war.

:up: :up:

#9913 kosmos

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 16:13

I'm not quite sure what in my post is "Bull." You admit Alonso was third going into to Turn 1, put a foot wrong (I believe he caught some wet grass or curbing) and let the Mercedes pair get ahead of him.


I think the problem on turn 1 was the lack of traction more than anything. The back of the car was moving like crazy. I think he touched a little the kerb, not sure if that was enough to make the car move like that, as I said I think it was a traction issue but I'm not an expert.

he "somehow" got behind the Mercedes


"the start didn't go as predicted and both Mercedes overtook us on the start"

he explained what happen, plain and simple. Even if he is reluctant to acknowledge his mistakes in the press conference, it's something that the whole world watched. He said to the spanish press this: " everyone went off the track at some point, everyone spun (including himself)", I can post the link but the video is blocked outside Spain.



#9914 TheBunk

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 17:28

Ive been watching F1 for quite some time and I gotta agree with briatore: Alonso is right upthere with the very, very best. He ticks all the boxes

Ultra fast over one lap
Ultra consistent over a race
Knows his weaknesses
Knows his strenghts
Intelligent
Versatile
Quick in the wet
Good overtaker
Doesnt get fazed by stress

And usually very open and honest, no bullshit attitude in interviews. Goves credit to whomever should get it, and admits mistakes.

I really dont see any other driver currently in F1 ticking all these boxes.

Vettel is coming for sure, but sometimes can make a little mistake.

No, Flavio is right. Alonso, he da man.

Edited by TheBunk, 02 August 2011 - 22:39.


#9915 PoleMan

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 17:34

I think the problem on turn 1 was the lack of traction more than anything. The back of the car was moving like crazy. I think he touched a little the kerb, not sure if that was enough to make the car move like that, as I said I think it was a traction issue but I'm not an expert.



"the start didn't go as predicted and both Mercedes overtook us on the start"

he explained what happen, plain and simple. Even if he is reluctant to acknowledge his mistakes in the press conference, it's something that the whole world watched. He said to the spanish press this: " everyone went off the track at some point, everyone spun (including himself)", I can post the link but the video is blocked outside Spain.

Kosmos,

His statements were more forthcoming in the post-race Team statement. If he also admitted his errors to the Spanish-speaking audience, even better. Some seem a bit sensitive to my (mild) critique of Fernando. I think he can take it. ;) I think he's still the best on the grid. Unfortunately, no one gets to live on their laurels. Those considered to be the very best have to prove their worthiness on the track every fortnight. I expect his driving in the second half to live up to his (and our) lofty standards as he has all season! :up: :up:

#9916 ClockworkRacing

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 17:44

Alonso is a good overtaker?? :lol:
Not at all,mate

#9917 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 19:35

I'm not quite sure what in my post is "Bull." You admit Alonso was third going into to Turn 1, put a foot wrong (I believe he caught some wet grass or curbing) and let the Mercedes pair get ahead of him. The conditions were certainly tricky for everyone, but Fernando was driving, so he was the responsible party, non?

I also think you misread my criticism. Fernando drove well in the second half of the race. AWESOME, in fact, and he earned the podium he received! But where I found fault was in his comments where he intimated that he "somehow" got behind the Mercedes, when it was his driving errors early in the race that did it. Without those early mistakes, there were porbably higher places on the podium to be had. That's all. I think Alonso fans, and I am certainly a proud member of that group, should not feel they have to support their driver even when they make statements that are contrary to all evidence. Let's leave that for the most irrational Hamilton fans, shall we?;) Ok, that was a joke, and I'm not looking to poison this thread with a war.


I apologize for the bull and indeed I misread your whole post because I was disappointed. I (Edit: mostly) agree with the above. Edit: I just don't think that the T1 wheelspin was a "driving error", he just had overtaken 2 cars off the line and into T1, and found himself at a spot that had no grip. He ended up not worse that what he had been anyway, so it was right to take the risk. Going off in T2 twice surely wasn't perfect, but who are we to judge, really (the same goes for the others who ran wide there)

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 02 August 2011 - 19:40.


#9918 man

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 19:39

Ive been watching F1 for quite some time and I gotta agree with briatore: Alonso is right upthere with the very, very best. He ticks all the boxes

Ultra fast over one lap
Ultra consistent over a race
Knows his weaknesses
Knows his strenghts
Intelligent
Versatile
Quick in the wet
Good overtaker
Doesnt get fazed by stress

And usually very open and honest, no bullshit attitude in interviews. Goves credit to whomever should get it, and admits mistakes.

I really dont see any other driver currently in F1 ticking all these boxes.

Vettel is coming for sure, but sometimes can make a little mistake

Hamilton is very good on some areas but hopeless in others.

No, Flavio is right.


A good analysis, but you ruined it with your comments on Hamilton

#9919 crespo

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 20:49

Alonso is a good overtaker?? :lol:
Not at all,mate

Care to give proof of this? Alonso has a great collection of overtakes to his name.

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#9920 crespo

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 20:51

I apologize for the bull and indeed I misread your whole post because I was disappointed. I (Edit: mostly) agree with the above. Edit: I just don't think that the T1 wheelspin was a "driving error", he just had overtaken 2 cars off the line and into T1, and found himself at a spot that had no grip. He ended up not worse that what he had been anyway, so it was right to take the risk. Going off in T2 twice surely wasn't perfect, but who are we to judge, really (the same goes for the others who ran wide there)

Also remember that Massa lost the same two places to the two Mercs in a nearly identical fashion. The Ferrari seemed to be at a serious disadvantage at the start of the race, not being able to keep whatever heat from the formation lap in the tires.

#9921 Ferrari2183

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 21:59

Also remember that Massa lost the same two places to the two Mercs in a nearly identical fashion. The Ferrari seemed to be at a serious disadvantage at the start of the race, not being able to keep whatever heat from the formation lap in the tires.

It was only at turn 1 at the start... After that Alonso was finding good grip in the wet conditions and was lighting up live timing before he went off at turn 2 for the first time and lost the place to Rosberg. Once he got past Rosberg the second time, he again lit up live timing with purple sectors and was a good deal faster than Hamilton at that time and was chewing up the gap to Button prior to Button pitting. I shudder to think what would have happened had he not made those mistakes at turn 2. A shame really, but let's look ahead to Spa.

Edited by Ferrari2183, 02 August 2011 - 22:00.


#9922 TheBunk

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 22:39

A good analysis, but you ruined it with your comments on Hamilton



Allright. Thanks.

#9923 ClockworkRacing

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 22:43

Care to give proof of this? Alonso has a great collection of overtakes to his name.

Abu Dhabi 2010 :o

#9924 SCUDmissile

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 22:47

Abu Dhabi 2010 :o

that would mean Hamilton is also a rubbish overtaker.

#9925 PoleMan

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 00:01

I apologize for the bull and indeed I misread your whole post because I was disappointed. I (Edit: mostly) agree with the above. Edit: I just don't think that the T1 wheelspin was a "driving error", he just had overtaken 2 cars off the line and into T1, and found himself at a spot that had no grip. He ended up not worse that what he had been anyway, so it was right to take the risk. Going off in T2 twice surely wasn't perfect, but who are we to judge, really (the same goes for the others who ran wide there)

Fair enough. How you describe it could certainly be exactly how it happened. You and I both root for the best driver on the grid and only want the best for him and from him. RESPECT! :cool: :up:

#9926 Totza

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 00:12

Ive been watching F1 for quite some time and I gotta agree with briatore: Alonso is right upthere with the very, very best. He ticks all the boxes

Ultra fast over one lap
Ultra consistent over a race
Knows his weaknesses
Knows his strenghts
Intelligent
Versatile
Quick in the wet
Good overtaker
Doesnt get fazed by stress

And usually very open and honest, no bullshit attitude in interviews. Goves credit to whomever should get it, and admits mistakes.

I really dont see any other driver currently in F1 ticking all these boxes.

Vettel is coming for sure, but sometimes can make a little mistake.

No, Flavio is right. Alonso, he da man.

Hamilton is in the same bracket, you cannot deny it :)

#9927 TheBunk

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 00:18

Personally I dont think Alonso will manage to beat shumi's stats - hed have to win 5 championships in a row - but I do agree Alonso will become one of the very best in history. And I do believe he will win at least 2 more championships and get at least 50 wins under his name.

#9928 GerhardBerger

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 10:29

Personally I dont think Alonso will manage to beat shumi's stats - hed have to win 5 championships in a row - but I do agree Alonso will become one of the very best in history. And I do believe he will win at least 2 more championships and get at least 50 wins under his name.


I agree. I don't think Alonso is lacking in talent or application, but he is just in a more competitive era with other top drivers like Vettel and Hamilton also gunning for world championships.

#9929 Wi000

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 10:42

Personally I dont think Alonso will manage to beat shumi's stats - hed have to win 5 championships in a row - but I do agree Alonso will become one of the very best in history. And I do believe he will win at least 2 more championships and get at least 50 wins under his name.

With 5 more years on his contract 2 more WDCs and winning 23+ races looks possible.
Joining Alain Prost as 4 time WDC. :up:

#9930 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 10:47

I don't really care how many more he wins or what other people think of him. He is the current best and one of the greatest ever as far as I am concerned, and that's all that matters to me!

#9931 puxanando

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 10:52

I don't really care how many more he wins or what other people think of him. He is the current best and one of the greatest ever as far as I am concerned, and that's all that matters to me!

:up:

We still will see a lots of victories from the asturian & I think also some titels...... :)

#9932 SCUDmissile

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 11:12

i dont wanna jinx it, but the rules are looking good for ferrari to build a great car.

McLaren and RedBull have more reliance on their ebd, and they will be banned next year.

#9933 e34

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 12:43

I agree. I don't think Alonso is lacking in talent or application, but he is just in a more competitive era with other top drivers like Vettel and Hamilton also gunning for world championships.


He, and Ferrari, are lacking in testing, and in being able to optimise set-ups. They have been hit hardest by regulation development after 2007.

#9934 ivey

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 13:15

What you didn't mention is that Alonso is a very good defending driver (up there with Hamilton :lol: )

#9935 Flamini

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 13:15

Fernando Alonso's Birthday Gift From Ferrari

Sorry if that's been posted before.

#9936 PoleMan

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 15:19

Fernando Alonso's Birthday Gift From Ferrari

Sorry if that's been posted before.

That was GREAT, Flamini! Thank you for that! :up: The affection Ferrari has for Fernando seems genuine and spread across every corner of the team. I think he will be there a long time. I predict 3 more WDC's for Fernando while with the Scuderia.

#9937 kosmos

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 16:00

Fernando Alonso's Birthday Gift From Ferrari

Sorry if that's been posted before.



The video was longer but Ferrari didn't allowed to "la sexta" to show some personal stuff. I wonder about the pig at the end of the video.

#9938 puxanando

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 16:05

I wonder about the pig at the end of the video.

:clap: This is a luck-bringer!

#9939 puxanando

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 17:17

Fernandos birthday cake

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#9940 Mika Mika

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 17:22

i dont wanna jinx it, but the rules are looking good for ferrari to build a great car.

McLaren and RedBull have more reliance on their ebd, and they will be banned next year.


Last year though the Mclaren was better without the EBD than the Ferrari - you cant really base one year on another..

Edited by Mika Mika, 03 August 2011 - 17:23.


#9941 puxanando

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 17:28

Tonio Liuzzy speaking about Alonso

“But although Vettel is leading the championship, I think Fernando Alonso has been the most impressive of the top five or six drivers this year. He is doing an amazing job with the Ferrari, has had some great races and has made very few mistakes considering how hard he has pushed. He's always making the difference and for sure we will see some great races before the end of the season between the drivers at the top teams. “



#9942 EdwardCullen

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 17:35

Briatore: "If he had that car (the RB7), Fernando would be winning by a huge margin. He is one of the few great drivers with Senna, Prost and Schumacher."

This made me laugh :lol: as if Vettel is not winning or leading by a huge margin :lol:

Edited by EdwardCullen, 03 August 2011 - 17:39.


#9943 ClockworkRacing

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 18:04

that would mean Hamilton is also a rubbish overtaker.

Yes but the difference is that Alonso was fighting the championship there and Lewis not ;)

#9944 puxanando

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 18:04

Lewis Hamilton : "Alonso is a very, very fast driver, incredibly fast, with extraordinary talent and incredible speed. You know that he will always give his best."

Fernando Alonso : "I have no problem with Hamilton and neither did we have one at McLaren. I have the absolute respect for him. As long as it wasn't at McLaren, sharing a team with Lewis Hamilton would be good."



#9945 SCUDmissile

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 18:12

Last year though the Mclaren was better without the EBD than the Ferrari - you cant really base one year on another..

yeah, i suppose so.

Yes but the difference is that Alonso was fighting the championship there and Lewis not



then that would mean Lewis could try his best to overtake, as there was no pressure. he could go aggressive, yet he couldnt overtake, yet Alonso had to also bring it home.

PS great vid :up:

Edited by SCUDmissile, 03 August 2011 - 18:18.


#9946 as65p

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 18:17

Yes but the difference is that Alonso was fighting the championship there and Lewis not ;)


:p This discussion always comes to this funny point. Hamilton, the eternal racer, couldn't be bothered to apply all his skill that day. :drunk:

Two things:

a) Hamilton was NOT mathematically out of the championship. However slim his chance, it was there. Had everyone up front fallen off he could have become WDC that day. Just not trundling round behind Kubica...

b) if we assume his chance was unrealistic, he had even more reason to go for it: no pressure then, just racing, last GP of the season.

But of course everyone reasonable could see that all of the above is secondary to the overwhelming issue of the Renault simply being non-overtakable that day due to a perfectly set up f-duct (Renault had arguably developed the most efficient system by the end of the season) and the nature of the track.

But I reckon you know all that, don't you?

#9947 George Costanza

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 18:24

Alonso will be a four time WDC by the time he retires, IMO. He's just that good. Along with 50 wins or more.

#9948 KavB

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 18:31

He can easily win at least 2 championships by the end of his current contract. It'll be criminal if he ended his career only as a double WDC. I still can't believe he hasn't won a title for 5 years!

#9949 George Costanza

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 18:33

He can easily win at least 2 championships by the end of his current contract. It'll be criminal if he ended his career only as a double WDC. I still can't believe he hasn't won a title for 5 years!



I personally think Alonso has been a tad unlucky since 2006.

Why? Could have won it in 2007 and 2010 (of course if he stayed with McLaren for 2008, he could have won it also)

So maybe he would have been a four time or five time WDC by the age of 30. :eek:

Edited by George Costanza, 03 August 2011 - 18:35.


#9950 SCUDmissile

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 18:46

think what could have happened if he waited until 2006 to settle his future.