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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#10151 GerhardBerger

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 15:52

I agree that the RB and Macs are much better in mixed conditions, largely due to the tyres etc, but I use Massa as the benchmark. If he qualified fourth then the car cannot be the reason Alonso qualified 8th. And if it's traffic that's still a poor excuse. He had 2-3 laps to find space. Anyhow, it's done now, let's just hope for better tomorrow...


traffic, plus he was one of the first to complete his last flying lap when track conditions were improving all the time (though not sure where Massa was in realtion to Alonso).

Anyone know what type of setup Alonso is running? Last year he struggled partly because he was running so much wing.

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#10152 GerhardBerger

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 15:53

He was excellent in Korea last year. Those are his two great wet races that I remember.


Nurburgring 2007 too.

#10153 Mackey

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 15:55

Now, be honest: do you actually see Fernando as very good driver in wet? I mean - like, when some driver has inferior equipment and always loses when its dry but suddenly almost lap everybody when it is pouring? Is that how you see Fernando? You know, they say that rain is great equalizer which levels the field and underlines drivers skills, why isnt Fernando keep getting wins or even podiums in his very competitive car if that is true?

Sorry, but I havent seen that Senna/Schumi like driving from Fernando in wet yet.


I haven´t seen any driver do that, ever.

PD. I started watching F1 in 2002.


#10154 yr

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 15:56

He was excellent in Korea last year. Those are his two great wet races that I remember.


Yeah, Ill give you that, but his overall performance in wet races is few good races and dozens of spins and crashses and out-of-podium finishes. It would take the skills of politician to argue that Alonso is great driver in wet track.

#10155 GerhardBerger

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 15:58

Yeah, Ill give you that, but his overall performance in wet races is few good races and dozens of spins and crashses and out-of-podium finishes. It would take the skills of politician to argue that Alonso is great driver in wet track.


I don't think anyone is arguing (or even suggesting) that he is great in the wet.

#10156 yr

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 15:59

I haven´t seen any driver do that, ever.

PD. I started watching F1 in 2002.


Well, look no futher than Jenson Button. He is always there or thereabouts when track is wet, no matter what car he drives. PS even wettel won his first race with inferior car because it was wet.


#10157 GerhardBerger

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 16:02

Well, look no futher than Jenson Button. He is always there or thereabouts when track is wet, no matter what car he drives. PS even wettel won his first race with inferior car because it was wet.


Button won in changeable conditions most of the time (usually a drying track). and FYI he was no where in Korea last year.

You can cherry pick certain races all you want. The top drivers have all had good races and not so good races in the wet. None of the them stand out as a true rain master the way Schumacher did in the late 90s.

#10158 yr

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 16:14

Button won in changeable conditions most of the time (usually a drying track). and FYI he was no where in Korea last year.

You can cherry pick certain races all you want. The top drivers have all had good races and not so good races in the wet. None of the them stand out as a true rain master the way Schumacher did in the late 90s.


Its not about cherrry picking certain races, its about who is almost always there and who shines only rarely. Senna and Schumacher (MS in his "first career") are great examples of drivers who really did shine with any car they had almost everytime it was wet, dont you agree? Fernando has had few times his set-up spot-on for rainy conditions and he has shone, but usually he is nowhere when conditions are not perfect.

#10159 kosmos

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 16:15

"Unfortunately, I hardly ever managed to get a clean lap because on both my second and third laps I found [Sergio] Perez ahead of me and on the last one I had to slow at the entrance to the chicane to let [Mark] Webber pass, otherwise I might have been penalised. That's how it was, but definitely there is a sense of regret, as I could have got a better place."


plot thickens but haters gonna hate no matter what.

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#10160 GerhardBerger

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 16:22

Its not about cherrry picking certain races, its about who is almost always there and who shines only rarely. Senna and Schumacher (MS in his "first career") are great examples of drivers who really did shine with any car they had almost everytime it was wet, dont you agree? Fernando has had few times his set-up spot-on for rainy conditions and he has shone, but usually he is nowhere when conditions are not perfect.


No i don't agree that he is "no where" when conditions are not perfect. He's no Schumacher/Senna in the wet (then again, who on the current grid is), but i don't see anyone claiming that Alonso is a rainmaster.


#10161 Fontainebleau

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 16:24

Well, is he really? I mean nobody has said that he cant drive a car better than your local taxi-driver, but they are not all praising him like there is no tommorrow and saying "I wish I could sack my current drivers and get Fernando to drive my car" are they?

Quote from the BBC, today:
http://news.bbc.co.u...one/9573626.stm
BBC Sport's Andrew Benson in Spa: "While Sebastian Vettel clearly already has 'one hand on the championship trophy', as Martin Brundle put it this weekend, rivals Mark Webber, Lewis Hamilton, Fernando Alonso and Jenson Button are still stretching every sinew to stop him. Which of them does Mercedes team boss Ross Brawn - architect of Michael Schumacher's seven titles - feel is best placed to put Vettel under pressure? 'I think Alonso is probably the strongest of that group who can give him a hard time. He's a driver I would have loved to have worked with in the past.'"

But of course, we all know that Internet posters are much more knowledgeable about F1 than Ross Brawn. Who's that guy, anyway, what has he achieved? :p

#10162 Fontainebleau

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 16:27

Ok, so if you are looking for a driver who is excellent in wet/mixed conditions, you would go for Fernando? Seriously?

Why not? Who are you going to mention, Hamilton? The same guy who was overtaken by Alonso in Korea 2010 and in Silverstone 2009? Yes, he drove well in Silverstone 2008 (although his win was greatly helped by Raikkonen's wrong choice of tyres), but since you are so happy to disregard Hungary 2006 and Nurburgring 2007 I guess you can disregard that one too...

#10163 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 16:29

I hate how the driver threads always go crazy after a bad performance and rarely after a good performance. I thought formula 1 fans were supposed to be some of the most sporting and respectful around? Where is that good sportsmanship when a driver has a bad day at the office? I always though sport was about supporting a person/team and celebrating their success rather than celebrating others failures?

#10164 Fontainebleau

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 16:30

A drivers track and difficult conditions? Perhaps Massa just handled all that better, even though he is number 2 in his team, I`d say well done Felipe.

You have some other explanation? (just kidding, of course yo have: Massa sucks and Alonso rocks - so the result is actually invalid).

No, you are the one hooked into simplistic analysis such as X is great and Y sucks (see the referencesto wet weather driving) - I simply think that Alonso failed to have a good lap in a car that is not competitive in the conditions we had at Spa today.

#10165 yr

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 16:36

Quote from the BBC, today:
http://news.bbc.co.u...one/9573626.stm
BBC Sport's Andrew Benson in Spa: "While Sebastian Vettel clearly already has 'one hand on the championship trophy', as Martin Brundle put it this weekend, rivals Mark Webber, Lewis Hamilton, Fernando Alonso and Jenson Button are still stretching every sinew to stop him. Which of them does Mercedes team boss Ross Brawn - architect of Michael Schumacher's seven titles - feel is best placed to put Vettel under pressure? 'I think Alonso is probably the strongest of that group who can give him a hard time. He's a driver I would have loved to have worked with in the past.'"

But of course, we all know that Internet posters are much more knowledgeable about F1 than Ross Brawn. Who's that guy, anyway, what has he achieved? :p


Those insiders are humans too.

Do you know who was Adrian Neweys favourite?

Tatadadaa: Damon Hill. But of course a man as capable as Newey is, knows way more than us internet posters, so Hill must be one of the very best drivers of last two decades, certainly better than Alonso, right?



#10166 Skellen

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 16:39

Those insiders are humans too.

Do you know who was Adrian Neweys favourite?

Tatadadaa: Damon Hill. But of course a man as capable as Newey is, knows way more than us internet posters, so Hill must be one of the very best drivers of last two decades, certainly better than Alonso, right?


Favourite driver he was working with, he didnt say that he finds him the best one, right?

#10167 yr

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 16:41

Why not? Who are you going to mention, Hamilton? The same guy who was overtaken by Alonso in Korea 2010 and in Silverstone 2009? Yes, he drove well in Silverstone 2008 (although his win was greatly helped by Raikkonen's wrong choice of tyres), but since you are so happy to disregard Hungary 2006 and Nurburgring 2007 I guess you can disregard that one too...


If I were a betting man, I would put my money on Button every time the conditions are not plain dry. Simple as that.

#10168 Skellen

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 16:45

If I were a betting man, I would put my money on Button every time the conditions are not plain dry. Simple as that.


Does this apply to qualy sessions too?

#10169 GerhardBerger

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 16:50

If I were a betting man, I would put my money on Button every time the conditions are not plain dry. Simple as that.


good thing you aren't, you would have lost money today...

#10170 yr

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 16:50

Favourite driver he was working with, he didnt say that he finds him the best one, right?



You know very well that team bosses say nothing good about drivers who are not driving for their team. If Brawn compliments drivers from other teams you can read it as : "we have a place for you". You think that Domenicali would suddenly star praising, say, Hamilton? Vettel? or that Horner would suddenly praise Alonso or Hamilton?

MS is old and wont stay long Mercedes, so why wouldnt Brawn put some nice words in for Fernando, he would be a good replacement for MS.

Its all politics, never trust anything what one says and never believe anything you see or hear and you´ll do just fine.

#10171 yr

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 16:51

Does this apply to qualy sessions too?



:lol:
Not today.

#10172 yr

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 17:01

good thing you aren't, you would have lost money today...


I was talking about race, not qualy, in wich case I would have won loads of money had I bet money for JBs win in every wet race in last years.
Hasnt Button won all wet races recently - no matter where he started or where he was after first lap?

God, that reminded me: if it is raining tomorrow, I should bet some money on Button despite his gridslot, thats as easy money as collecting interests from Bank, only much faster and more profitable.

#10173 Skellen

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 17:05

I can only imagine the pain you feel for Fernando Not having won WDC yet. :wave:


You mean in his new team, yes?

I can only imagine the pain you feel every time Raikkonen crashed in WRC. Or when you realise that he will probably never ever be very good in any kind of racing. Or when he was fired by his team in F1. Or when he isnt doing well even in races of middle-aged men in trucks on tracks with only left-handers.

Yes, it must be hard to be Kimi fan, no wonder you come here so often to troll.

#10174 GerhardBerger

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 17:05

I was talking about race, not qualy, in wich case I would have won loads of money had I bet money for JBs win in every wet race in last years.
Hasnt Button won all wet races recently - no matter where he started or where he was after first lap?

God, that reminded me: if it is raining tomorrow, I should bet some money on Button despite his gridslot, thats as easy money as collecting interests from Bank, only much faster and more profitable.


why not for qualifying?

You might have won loads of money, so i guess it's a shame that you didn't put your money where your mouth is.

Button didn't win Silverstone btw. He's done well in changeable conditions, rather than full wet conditions.

#10175 yr

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 17:17

why not for qualifying?

You might have won loads of money, so i guess it's a shame that you didn't put your money where your mouth is.

Button didn't win Silverstone btw. He's done well in changeable conditions, rather than full wet conditions.


I didnt put my money where my mouth is simply because i am not a betting man, I never put money on gambling.

#10176 cardin

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 20:48

Quote from the BBC, today:
http://news.bbc.co.u...one/9573626.stm
BBC Sport's Andrew Benson in Spa: "While Sebastian Vettel clearly already has 'one hand on the championship trophy', as Martin Brundle put it this weekend, rivals Mark Webber, Lewis Hamilton, Fernando Alonso and Jenson Button are still stretching every sinew to stop him. Which of them does Mercedes team boss Ross Brawn - architect of Michael Schumacher's seven titles - feel is best placed to put Vettel under pressure? 'I think Alonso is probably the strongest of that group who can give him a hard time. He's a driver I would have loved to have worked with in the past.'"

But of course, we all know that Internet posters are much more knowledgeable about F1 than Ross Brawn. Who's that guy, anyway, what has he achieved? :p

Never mind Hamilton starting beside him, Vettel must be scared sh!tless by the pressure Alonso will exert on him all the way from 8th.
Not very good timming bringing this quote here today, is it ?

#10177 OldSoldier

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 21:15

Never mind Hamilton starting beside him, Vettel must be scared sh!tless by the pressure Alonso will exert on him all the way from 8th.
Not very good timming bringing this quote here today, is it ?


Your vulgarity is not appreciated, inappropriate, and incorrect. None of the top drivers scare easily.

Alonso is very good - the car let him down today. I'm pretty sure he will show well tomorrow.

Please try to be more objective.


#10178 Clatter

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 21:19

Your vulgarity is not appreciated, inappropriate, and incorrect. None of the top drivers scare easily.

Alonso is very good - the car let him down today. I'm pretty sure he will show well tomorrow.

Please try to be more objective.


Not according to Alonso, but lets be objective.

PS
A sense of humour helps as well.

Edited by Clatter, 27 August 2011 - 21:20.


#10179 K-One

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 21:20

Your vulgarity is not appreciated, inappropriate, and incorrect. None of the top drivers scare easily.

Alonso is very good - the car let him down today. I'm pretty sure he will show well tomorrow.

Please try to be more objective.


Objective? Exactly how car let him down today, when he lost 1 sec to Massa?

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#10180 cardin

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 21:33

Your vulgarity is not appreciated, inappropriate, and incorrect. None of the top drivers scare easily.

Alonso is very good - the car let him down today. I'm pretty sure he will show well tomorrow.

Please try to be more objective.


Don't use words you have no idea what they mean. And BTW, lighten up.

#10181 Buttoneer

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 22:36

Posts deleted. Please cut out the fighting.

#10182 Johnrambo

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 22:46

Alonso the Beggar of Spa. :lol:

#10183 Bruce

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 22:54

Objective? Exactly how car let him down today, when he lost 1 sec to Massa?


If you watched quali, you'll have seen that his final two laps were compromised - the first by being locked in behind Webber who was locked in behind perez, and the second by backing off at the last turn (far too late - he should have backed off at the start of the third sector,but probably thought he was on for a better time than he was....) which cost him entering his final lap.

Given that this is only the second time this year that FA has been bested in quali by Massa, I think we have to take him on his word (and the evidence on the telly screen) that traffic was what spoiled his afternoon.

In fact - Perez really cost Webber any chance of pole or beating Ham too....





#10184 mrmusicman

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 23:19

Its not about cherrry picking certain races, its about who is almost always there and who shines only rarely. Senna and Schumacher (MS in his "first career") are great examples of drivers who really did shine with any car they had almost everytime it was wet, dont you agree? Fernando has had few times his set-up spot-on for rainy conditions and he has shone, but usually he is nowhere when conditions are not perfect.


Usually nowhere? What are you talkiing about? He is always miles ahead of his team mates in wet or mixed conditions, showing amazing speed. At China 2010, he finsihed 40 seconds ahead of Massa even with a drive through. He won Korea, again miles ahead of Massa. Or Nurburg 2007, when in classic schumacher style he caught and overtook massa as soon as it started to rain. From memory the only wet race that he has been beaten by a team mate was fuji 2007, so I wonder how you got the idea he is 'nowhere' when conditions are not perfect??

In terms of driving ability in the wet I would put him on terms with anyone, including Schumacher, the only difference is that with fixed race setups its harder to dominate like Schumacher often did in his prime, plus there are more stronger wet weather drivers around than in the 90s.

Edited by mrmusicman, 27 August 2011 - 23:21.


#10185 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 00:39

Favourite driver he was working with, he didnt say that he finds him the best one, right?


I cannot find the quote right now, but IIRC it was not about Hill being the most likable guy he worked with. Wasn't it how about DH was inch-perfect and the best test driver ever or something like that?

#10186 GerhardBerger

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 00:42

I cannot find the quote right now, but IIRC it was not about Hill being the most likable guy he worked with. Wasn't it how about DH was inch-perfect and the best test driver ever or something like that?


Hill was known for his precise technical feedback.

#10187 Bruce

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 00:54

I cannot find the quote right now, but IIRC it was not about Hill being the most likable guy he worked with. Wasn't it how about DH was inch-perfect and the best test driver ever or something like that?


Yeah - Hill did a lot of donkey work on the Williams and was, of course, a test driver for them before he was a driver... Hill may not have had the natural flare of a Senna or a Schumacher, but he could sort a car and make better use out of it than most...

#10188 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 01:40

Hill was known for his precise technical feedback.


Yep I know, but IIRC the Newey quote was not just about (verbal) feedback, but his testing effort being helped by very precise and consistent driving. Anyone care to share the actual quote? Thanks

#10189 topical

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 09:02

This thread is about Alonso, not Damon Hill.

He sounds confident of a good recovery today. Let's hope so. Most important thing is a good start with no first lap collisions.

#10190 puxanando

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 09:03

This thread is about Alonso, not Damon Hill.

:up: thank you!

Alonso hopes of a dry race!

#10191 K-One

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 09:44

If you watched quali, you'll have seen that his final two laps were compromised - the first by being locked in behind Webber who was locked in behind perez, and the second by backing off at the last turn (far too late - he should have backed off at the start of the third sector,but probably thought he was on for a better time than he was....) which cost him entering his final lap.

Given that this is only the second time this year that FA has been bested in quali by Massa, I think we have to take him on his word (and the evidence on the telly screen) that traffic was what spoiled his afternoon.

In fact - Perez really cost Webber any chance of pole or beating Ham too....


Yes he might have had traffic, but there is no question that car was capable for top4 position, so any talk about car letting him down is absolute garbage

#10192 kosmos

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 10:18

Something excepcional or something really bad today, nothing in the middle I fear. Good luck Fernando.

#10193 BalazsF1

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 10:28

The sun has been shining since the morning, but there are lots of clouds in the sky and it starts drizzling from time to time.
I hope it will be dry and we will have some sunshine. I really really hope Fernando can get onto the podium.

#10194 YellowHelmet

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 10:36

8th yesterday and 1st today, sounds good  ;)

#10195 Bonaventura

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 13:18

Hoped for a Alonso win, when Lewis was out, but even this should not have been

#10196 fnz

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 13:28

Thank you Alonso for a good race!

#10197 kosmos

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 13:42

Fantastic race, lot of overtakes, good pace and fighting all the time, same that the strategy wasn't the best and the never ending problem with the tyres. He deserved the podium, but Button as well.

Edited by kosmos, 28 August 2011 - 13:42.


#10198 YellowHelmet

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 13:46

Oh dear Ferrari (again!) :up: .

****ing idiots.

the only advantage we have is on the options and we dont use them, coz we forgot to take alonso in in the safety car phase. :down:


Nevertheless, great drive by alonso - again.

#10199 Bruce

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 14:13

Oh dear Ferrari (again!) :up: .

****ing idiots.

the only advantage we have is on the options and we dont use them, coz we forgot to take alonso in in the safety car phase. :down:


Nevertheless, great drive by alonso - again.



Ferrari was screwed as soon as Vettel came in at the safety car. They may have been wise to attempt same, and they might have made a podium - but Alonso manages tyres so well that I'm not surprised that ferrari thought it worth a go. Sad to see him demoted to 4th in the last 10 laps, but it was a gritty drive from Alonso and given his strategy the safety car conferred, likely the best he could do.

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#10200 YellowHelmet

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 14:15

Ferrari was screwed as soon as Vettel came in at the safety car. They may have been wise to attempt same, and they might have made a podium - but Alonso manages tyres so well that I'm not surprised that ferrari thought it worth a go. Sad to see him demoted to 4th in the last 10 laps, but it was a gritty drive from Alonso and given his strategy the safety car conferred, likely the best he could do.

that is the point, i am criticising.

ferrari is not in the position to be react, they have to act to make podium finishes or wins, and today they forgot to stop during the sc-phase :down: