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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#10201 Bruce

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 14:43

that is the point, i am criticising.

ferrari is not in the position to be react, they have to act to make podium finishes or wins, and today they forgot to stop during the sc-phase :down:


I don'tthink they "forgot"to stop. They were on a very different strategy to SV - SV stopped for tires on - what - lap 4? so it was a no-brainer to pit him when the SC came out.

Ferrari, even if they HAD pitted would have been nailed with another pitstop and still had to finish on the harder tyres... the safety carplayed into Red Bulls hands. That's all.

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#10202 YellowHelmet

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 14:46

I don'tthink they "forgot"to stop. They were on a very different strategy to SV - SV stopped for tires on - what - lap 4? so it was a no-brainer to pit him when the SC came out.

Ferrari, even if they HAD pitted would have been nailed with another pitstop and still had to finish on the harder tyres... the safety carplayed into Red Bulls hands. That's all.


but the stop would have meant challenging vettel after sc on new tyres and so being faster and so being more in front than they were without the stop.

not to forget, ferrari only used two of their 3 sets of opions this weekend (sat + sun).
so we had a whole new set left.

#10203 Cesc

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 14:49

As I said in the Spa topic, they forgot to pit Alonso under the SC, but also forgot to pit him after they realized the mediums were a disaster in his car. He did 15 laps in medium tires, those tires are about 2 or even 3 seconds slower than the softs in the ferrari. So taking away the time to pit (very short in Spa) he would have ended much closer to Vettel. And besides, in any case he was going to keep the 4th place (he was 2nd after he pitted, but seeing the pace from Webber and Button, there was no way he could stop them). Ferrari has to take risks, they played safe today after they pitted with medium tires.

#10204 Outsider

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 14:55

actually i was hoping that massa's puncture pitstop was for alonso

#10205 BalazsF1

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 15:34

Alonso's race was wcrewd up by the horrible strategy. At the beginning he was driving like hell. He was fighting trough the field and eating everybody! He has a controlled aggressivity, similiar to Lewis's, but the Brition is often too aggressive which causes him so many mistakes.
I am completely fascinated by Fernando's talent!
He proved today again that he is over the rest! What a fantastic driver!

#10206 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 15:57

Alonso was sensational today, so sad to see him finish off the podium. He should have pitted under SC, that way he would have been a bit faster in the middle stint and he would have had 4 laps less on the mediums. I don't think it would have been enough to beat the pace of the Red Bulls but we certainly could have covered Jenson better.

#10207 Bruce

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 16:07

Alonso was sensational today, so sad to see him finish off the podium. He should have pitted under SC, that way he would have been a bit faster in the middle stint and he would have had 4 laps less on the mediums. I don't think it would have been enough to beat the pace of the Red Bulls but we certainly could have covered Jenson better.


I'll be interested to look at the timing charts as they come available - I think there may have been a good reason not to stop at the SC - SV had a little more space at the time given his lead - I think that Alonso may have filtered in behind other cars.

In hindsight - you have to say the final tyres didn't serve him well - but if had matched SV and come out of the pits behind Nico or even further back. Passing wasn't too hard for Alonso today - but that's not to say that had he pitted it would have been a guaranteed success...

#10208 Cesc

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 16:09

Passing wasn't too hard for Alonso today - but that's not to say that had he pitted it would have been a guaranteed success...


But it would have been much more entertaining and I have little doubts he would have challenged Webber and Button in the last...say 5 laps... but again we had to se Alonso in Mercedes pace for the last 10 laps... pitty they didnĀ“t risk the last 10 laps for a fresh set of softs...

#10209 TheBunk

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 16:17

The first half Alonso showed a class drive ive rarely seen any driver do. Mouth watering to witness.

#10210 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 16:22

I'll be interested to look at the timing charts as they come available - I think there may have been a good reason not to stop at the SC - SV had a little more space at the time given his lead - I think that Alonso may have filtered in behind other cars.



Vettel rejoined just behind Webber and Alonso was 5 seconds behind him. From my memory Webber was more than 5 seconds ahead of the next car but I agree it will be interesting to see the lap charts. If he would have came out behind only Webber and Vettel I simple can't see any benefit to staying out so as you say there may well have been a good reason.


#10211 Jejking

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 16:28

but the stop would have meant challenging vettel after sc on new tyres and so being faster and so being more in front than they were without the stop.

not to forget, ferrari only used two of their 3 sets of opions this weekend (sat + sun).
so we had a whole new set left.

Still, he would have fallen quite a bit back (in terms of cars) and because they were going for another strategy than the Bulls they preferred track position. Alonso is a bit more conserving his tyres. If the SC hadn't been there, he might have had a chance to get higher up with Vettels tyre woes.

#10212 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 17:14

I'll be interested to look at the timing charts as they come available - I think there may have been a good reason not to stop at the SC - SV had a little more space at the time given his lead - I think that Alonso may have filtered in behind other cars.


Pat Fry has said they didn't pit at the SC because they would fall into traffic so you were right :up:

#10213 Fontainebleau

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 17:46

People may want to revisit certain assertions in the last couple of pages: Alonso is a bad starter, he does not overtake, he never does well at Spa...  ;) :p

I think that Ferrari/Alonso were doing great and heading towards a win, but once the SC came out I think the win was out of reach. I honestly don't know how a different strategy would have worked in terms of securing the podium.

Anyway, great race by the top 5 guys: Alonso and Webber were unlucky with the SC, but their driving was fantastic; Vettel, Button and Schumacher got their SC pit stop right, but again drove very well. :)

And devastated for poor Alguersuari :cry: It seems Alonso was right in being concerned about the "newcomers to the top 10 of the grid", and Senna proved to be too agressive and too little in control. Well, off to Monza!

#10214 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 17:51

The top 6 were flawless with their driving at different stages today! Alonso was devestatingly brilliant in the opening laps in particular, Vettel and Webber were sensational when they needed to be, Button's passes were incredible, Schumacher came from last on the grid and Rosberg led for a while in the Mercedes!! I've said it before and will say it again, the standard of driving this year is exceptional.

#10215 garoidb

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 17:56

People may want to revisit certain assertions in the last couple of pages: Alonso is a bad starter, he does not overtake, he never does well at Spa... ;) :p

I think that Ferrari/Alonso were doing great and heading towards a win, but once the SC came out I think the win was out of reach. I honestly don't know how a different strategy would have worked in terms of securing the podium.

Anyway, great race by the top 5 guys: Alonso and Webber were unlucky with the SC, but their driving was fantastic; Vettel, Button and Schumacher got their SC pit stop right, but again drove very well. :)

And devastated for poor Alguersuari :cry: It seems Alonso was right in being concerned about the "newcomers to the top 10 of the grid", and Senna proved to be too agressive and too little in control. Well, off to Monza!


Alono got whacked quite hard at the start too, as part of a chain reaction. I thought he might be out, but the Ferrari withstood the hit.

#10216 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 18:24

Looking forward to the next time someone ventures into this thread to claim that Alonso sucks at Spa and that this would prove he is not that great.

#10217 jj2728

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 18:33

Don't worry lads, we'll be back and in fine winning form for the home race at Monza.

#10218 Outsider

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 19:11

Alono got whacked quite hard at the start too, as part of a chain reaction. I thought he might be out, but the Ferrari withstood the hit.

i was very impressed that car took that hit and he continued as nothing happened. next time someone complains about missing a piece of wing or something, they should be reminded that

#10219 Callisto

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 20:41

Even with a poor strategy Alonso was great today(again)

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#10220 AlanWake

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 20:42

After an awful qualifying and a lot of critics, Fernando was under a big pressure and how did he respond today? With a great performance. He was fantastic today -specially in the opening laps- and without a doubt silenced some of his doubters :)

#10221 redbarron

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 21:32

It was awesome watching Alonso drive today, all the same it was depressing watching him fall behind with the medium tyres. I just don't think its our year chaps. It's Vettels year, nothing can go wrong for him.

#10222 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 22:50

Looking forward to the next time someone ventures into this thread to claim that Alonso sucks at Spa and that this would prove he is not that great.

Is this some sort of pre-emptive strike? :) But in all seriousness you have to admit its becoming peculiar that he has not won here in Spa yet. Goodness knows that he has had plenty of chances in race winning cars. Being overtaken on the outside in Eau Rouge itself is not one of his proudest moments either. Evidence would suggest that he in fact is not very good around this socalled drivers track. Unprovoked, he even spun out last year. Im just sayin'.

#10223 mrmusicman

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 00:02

Awesome brawling drive by Fernando, and his mugging of Massa was a great exhibition of his raw passion and aggression, and of course talent. There was just no way Massa was going to stop him, matter how hard he tried, although he did try very hard and do a fine job.

#10224 mrmusicman

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 00:03

Is this some sort of pre-emptive strike? :) But in all seriousness you have to admit its becoming peculiar that he has not won here in Spa yet. Goodness knows that he has had plenty of chances in race winning cars. Being overtaken on the outside in Eau Rouge itself is not one of his proudest moments either. Evidence would suggest that he in fact is not very good around this socalled drivers track. Unprovoked, he even spun out last year. Im just sayin'.


His cars have always been too slow at spa.

#10225 mcguin

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 00:10

Is this some sort of pre-emptive strike? :) But in all seriousness you have to admit its becoming peculiar that he has not won here in Spa yet.

In this series.


#10226 Fontainebleau

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 00:30

Is this some sort of pre-emptive strike? :) But in all seriousness you have to admit its becoming peculiar that he has not won here in Spa yet. Goodness knows that he has had plenty of chances in race winning cars. Being overtaken on the outside in Eau Rouge itself is not one of his proudest moments either. Evidence would suggest that he in fact is not very good around this socalled drivers track. Unprovoked, he even spun out last year. Im just sayin'.

And you are just saying nonsense. :rolleyes: It was Alonso's driving in Spa that won him his first F1 seat. During his F1 career he has raced at Spa with Minardi in 2001 (retired - gearbox), Renault in 2004 (retired - engine/spin) and 2005 (2nd), McLaren in 2007 (3rd), Renault in 2008 (4th) and 2009 (retired - wheel), Ferrari 2010 (retired - collision/spin) and 2011 (4th). That is, in that drivers's track, when he has finished he has always been among the top four, and every retirement was either directly due to car malfunction or had a previous incident. For example, you mention an "unprovoked" spin in 2010, but conveniently forget to mention that he had been hit by Barrichello on lap 1 when Alonso had been the only driver to actually make it around the Bus Stop.

As for being overtaken by Webber in Eau Rouge, I fail to see the shame of it: Alonso was just coming out of his pit stop, and he was a sitting duck for the much faster Red Bull. Here, have a look in case you forgot that detail I suppose you would have preferred Alonso to try a desperate blocking move on Webber, something similar to Hamilton's move on Kobayashi with potentially similar consequences? Well, wrong driver, Alonso always plays clean in these situations.

Edited by Fontainebleau, 29 August 2011 - 00:31.


#10227 jj2728

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 00:37

Is this some sort of pre-emptive strike? :) But in all seriousness you have to admit its becoming peculiar that he has not won here in Spa yet. Goodness knows that he has had plenty of chances in race winning cars. Being overtaken on the outside in Eau Rouge itself is not one of his proudest moments either. Evidence would suggest that he in fact is not very good around this socalled drivers track. Unprovoked, he even spun out last year. Im just sayin'.



Yeah....right. Just like Jim Clark never won at Monaco. You are sayin shite.......

#10228 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 01:19

As an Alonso fan I was giving him :up: when he backed out of it going into Eau Rouge with Webber. He knew Webber had the line and is a clean enough racer to know when enough is enough. Webber even alluded to this in the press conference, saying that Alonso is one of the few guys on the track you would have the confidence to go wheel to wheel with into that corner.

#10229 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 01:27

Is this some sort of pre-emptive strike? :) But in all seriousness you have to admit its becoming peculiar that he has not won here in Spa yet. Goodness knows that he has had plenty of chances in race winning cars. Being overtaken on the outside in Eau Rouge itself is not one of his proudest moments either. Evidence would suggest that he in fact is not very good around this socalled drivers track. Unprovoked, he even spun out last year. Im just sayin'.


A preemptive strike in the way that your post is what I was expecting. The claim is he is not good at Spa, he drives brilliantly at Spa, you say he is not good at Spa nevertheless. Next thing you say will be his starts suck, right? :stoned:

Edit: other posters provided the facts :up:

Edit: It's notable as well how you managed to provide the additional spin of calling it "outside" in Eau Rouge when on entry Webber was actually on the inside, and conveniently ignored that he was coming out of the pits and there was no way he could have held Webber except by a dirty and very dangerous block. Well done!

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 29 August 2011 - 01:39.


#10230 fabr68

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 01:49

Is this some sort of pre-emptive strike? :) But in all seriousness you have to admit its becoming peculiar that he has not won here in Spa yet. Goodness knows that he has had plenty of chances in race winning cars. Being overtaken on the outside in Eau Rouge itself is not one of his proudest moments either. Evidence would suggest that he in fact is not very good around this socalled drivers track. Unprovoked, he even spun out last year. Im just sayin'.


Yeah...unprovoked. Driving a car wrecked earlier by Barrichello



#10231 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 02:54

Yeah...unprovoked. Driving a car wrecked earlier by Barrichello


I still cannot believe that the car survived this at all, even if damaged. Much worse than how I remembered it. Alonso should have been declared the winner right there, since everyone else didn't even try to stay on the race track ;)

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 29 August 2011 - 04:28.


#10232 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 07:25

Yeah...unprovoked. Driving a car wrecked earlier by Barrichello

What?? He put the car too far up on the wet kerb and spun. This is what Alonso said himself: "Then I went off the track, when I went over a kerb and that was my race over". It was not due to any damage that suddenly kicked in when he went too high on a kerb. Lol.

But I agree that Alonso is a very fair driver on the track. Lewis Hamilton and others could learn a thing or two in that area.

#10233 BalazsF1

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 07:40

Alonso is now very mature. He is extremely aggressive when it comes to overtaking, but he has a kind of controlled aggressivity and is able to pull back when it's needed.
I call racing what he did in the early stages of the race and I would like to say big thanks for gifting us so beautiful laps.
Shame for the safety car, without it he could have won the race easily, because he could keep his tyres pretty long and was the fastest on the soft.

#10234 selespeed

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 07:51

Renault in 2004 (retired - engine/spin)



wasn't he leading at the time??

#10235 walkindude

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 08:53

Is this some sort of pre-emptive strike? :) But in all seriousness you have to admit its becoming peculiar that he has not won here in Spa yet. Goodness knows that he has had plenty of chances in race winning cars. Being overtaken on the outside in Eau Rouge itself is not one of his proudest moments either. Evidence would suggest that he in fact is not very good around this socalled drivers track. Unprovoked, he even spun out last year. Im just sayin'.


He drove a great race on a drivers track.There you go.Regarding the overtake,actually it was great work from alonso to avoid a potentially huge crash,and he had just come out of the pits so obviously had a speed disadvantage.

#10236 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 10:33

Alonso is now very mature. He is extremely aggressive when it comes to overtaking, but he has a kind of controlled aggressivity and is able to pull back when it's needed.
I call racing what he did in the early stages of the race and I would like to say big thanks for gifting us so beautiful laps.
Shame for the safety car, without it he could have won the race easily, because he could keep his tyres pretty long and was the fastest on the soft.

Are you serious?? You must have watched a different race.
Does every Alonso fan in here share that view?

#10237 YellowHelmet

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 10:35

Are you serious?? You must have watched a different race.
Does every Alonso fan in here share that view?

he would have a bigger chance to be on top or at least to pressure vettel, but i think a podium would have been easily within reach.

coz with newer tyres he would have been faster and so challenging vettel, and so pressuring vettel, which could have lead to vettel going on earlier to prymes or even alonso leading that race.

#10238 Fontainebleau

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 10:43

As an Alonso fan I was giving him :up: when he backed out of it going into Eau Rouge with Webber. He knew Webber had the line and is a clean enough racer to know when enough is enough. Webber even alluded to this in the press conference, saying that Alonso is one of the few guys on the track you would have the confidence to go wheel to wheel with into that corner.

http://www.grandprix.../r851sunpc.html
Q: (Mike Doodson - Honorary) Congratulations for providing a really thrilling race today and I think you all had some very exciting passes, but the one that I think got our imagination going was Mark going down the hill, no DRS and taking it straight to Alonso. Could you tell us about that and whether it was just a moment's inspiration or had you calculated it all?

Webber: Well, you don't have much time to get the calculator out at that point, mate, so I think most of the race I was still charged with frustration from the start, so when I came out behind Fernando, obviously we were very, very close going down into Eau Rouge and I knew Fernando would have been using some KERS so I was using some KERS as well. I got a tow, obviously, and then I thought if I can get to the inside then I might have the line but obviously both of us are very experienced, we both don't give much too easily, so it was a good battle and very, very rewarding that it worked out OK, but it takes two guys doing a good job to get all that right obviously, so it's more rewarding when you can do it with someone like Fernando because he's a world-class driver and he knows when enough is enough. Obviously my attitude might have been a bit different with someone else, let's say, but in the end, it worked out for me today but in Monza, maybe it's his turn to do it to me. I was breathing in at the bottom, I got in and I looked in the mirror at the top and I saw he was still in... well, he had no choice, obviously in the end he had to... one of us had to lift and I had a slightly better line and it was he who had to lift.

I wonder who else did he have in mind? :p Seriously, nice comment from Webber. :)

#10239 Oho

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 10:47

Are you serious?? You must have watched a different race.
Does every Alonso fan in here share that view?


Indeed, perhaps sans safety car Alonso could have prevailed but certainly not easily, given he was essentially a sitting duck on the mediums.

I guess few of his fans better hope (Christian/Jewish) God does not exist or that he/she is not too picky about the first of his commandments.....

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#10240 YellowHelmet

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 10:48

nice comments,
but it can also mean that an other driver he wouldnt try to overtake there, which is not really a compliment for alonso, or is it?

#10241 Fontainebleau

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 11:14

nice comments,
but it can also mean that an other driver he wouldnt try to overtake there, which is not really a compliment for alonso, or is it?

No, the meaning is very clear: you don't try an overtake there with someone who is willing to make a bonehead move, because the consequences could be disastrous.You only try it when you can trust the other driver to play clean and fair.

Interestingly, Alonso made a similar comment about Webber and Button not so long ago: he told the Spanish press that the two guys he liked to battle with were those two, because you can trust tem to play fair and hence can take more risks and enjoy the fight.

#10242 YellowHelmet

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 11:17

No, the meaning is very clear: you don't try an overtake there with someone who is willing to make a bonehead move, because the consequences could be disastrous.You only try it when you can trust the other driver to play clean and fair.

Interestingly, Alonso made a similar comment about Webber and Button not so long ago: he told the Spanish press that the two guys he liked to battle with were those two, because you can trust tem to play fair and hence can take more risks and enjoy the fight.

i know that, but there are always people who try to misunderstand that, thats why i wanted a clarification  ;)

#10243 Fontainebleau

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 11:38

i know that, but there are always people who try to misunderstand that, thats why i wanted a clarification ;)

Ah, no clarification would be good enough certain people, but then that is what happens on the internet - but I think there is still hope, I think that even the more stubborn internet posters are reasonable in the real world, this is just for fun  ;)

#10244 YellowHelmet

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 11:39

Ah, no clarification would be good enough certain people, but then that is what happens on the internet - but I think there is still hope, I think that even the more stubborn internet posters are reasonable in the real world, this is just for fun ;)

sometimes, surely  ;)

#10245 PoleMan

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 11:39

Looking for some help. Tropical Storm Irene knocked out power to my house, so I didn't get to see any of Alonso's early charge through the field (besides the accidental thumping from Jaime). Are there any clips of his passes to go from 8th to 1st? Only things that I find on You Tube are passes of him eith er just coming out of the pits or on the medium tyres. :(

#10246 AirWebber

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 11:46

Alonso / Ferrari did a terrible race in Spa in terms of tire management.

With the softer ones the tires were blistering, but the RedBull had even more.

With the harder ones, Alonso overcooked them setting the fastest time right away he got it so at the the of the stint they were in bad shape.

Ferrari still has a very conservative car concept and hard tires issues.
Alonso fixed nothing.
Wasn't that the aledged reason Kimi got hid from the team ?


#10247 YellowHelmet

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 11:47

Wasn't that the aledged reason Kimi got hid from the team ?

yes :drunk:

#10248 AirWebber

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 11:54

Looking for some help. Tropical Storm Irene knocked out power to my house, so I didn't get to see any of Alonso's early charge through the field (besides the accidental thumping from Jaime). Are there any clips of his passes to go from 8th to 1st? Only things that I find on You Tube are passes of him eith er just coming out of the pits or on the medium tyres. :(

http://www.formula1.com/video/

I think you have to wait for the FIA Race Edit or seach for some torrent.

#10249 as65p

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 11:54

With the harder ones, Alonso overcooked them setting the fastest time right away he got it so at the the of the stint they were in bad shape.


You should pay more attention. Alonso got faster and faster on his hards in the last stint, so there was no overcooking going on at all. That the Ferraris overall were not nearly getting as much performance out of the hards is a completely different issue.

Alonos clearly underperformed in Q3, so there's nothing wrong with having a go at him over that. But to critizise his race is just silly.



#10250 Kvothe

Kvothe
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  • 6,813 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 29 August 2011 - 12:08

As an Alonso fan I was giving him :up: when he backed out of it going into Eau Rouge with Webber. He knew Webber had the line and is a clean enough racer to know when enough is enough. Webber even alluded to this in the press conference, saying that Alonso is one of the few guys on the track you would have the confidence to go wheel to wheel with into that corner.

:up: