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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#10251 Fontainebleau

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 12:12

Looking for some help. Tropical Storm Irene knocked out power to my house, so I didn't get to see any of Alonso's early charge through the field (besides the accidental thumping from Jaime). Are there any clips of his passes to go from 8th to 1st? Only things that I find on You Tube are passes of him eith er just coming out of the pits or on the medium tyres. :(

PoleMan, I don't know if you can access the La Sexta website, but there you can reply the whole race whenever you want (sadly there are cuts on the moments they went to advertisements). This is the link:
http://www.lasexta.c..._belgica/474143

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#10252 AirWebber

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 12:14

You should pay more attention. Alonso got faster and faster on his hards in the last stint, so there was no overcooking going on at all.

Alonos clearly underperformed in Q3, so there's nothing wrong with having a go at him over that. But to critizise his race is just silly.

I have a vivid memory on that.
Alonso stopped for harder tires in lap 30.
On lap 32 he got the purple lap [fastest].

#10253 kosmos

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 12:16

With the harder ones, Alonso overcooked them setting the fastest time right away he got it so at the the of the stint they were in bad shape.



Please don't come here to post your biased BS, get real or leave us alone.

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#10254 Watkins74

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 12:30

Alonso / Ferrari did a terrible race in Spa in terms of tire management.

With the softer ones the tires were blistering, but the RedBull had even more.

With the harder ones, Alonso overcooked them setting the fastest time right away he got it so at the the of the stint they were in bad shape.

Ferrari still has a very conservative car concept and hard tires issues.
Alonso fixed nothing.
Wasn't that the aledged reason Kimi got hid from the team ?

Alonso pitted on Lap 29 and on lap 31 set a 1:51.844, Webber pitted on Lap 31 and on Lap 33 set a 1:49.833

So I guess that overcooked Webber's tires?

No the ice man got fired because he took a nap after his WDC and got beaten by his #2 who made a fraction of his salary.

You don't seem to understand the sport very well, perhaps you should follow Golf.

#10255 walkindude

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 12:32

sometimes, surely ;)


Dont call him shirley :p

#10256 walkindude

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 12:35

Alonso / Ferrari did a terrible race in Spa in terms of tire management.

With the softer ones the tires were blistering, but the RedBull had even more.

With the harder ones, Alonso overcooked them setting the fastest time right away he got it so at the the of the stint they were in bad shape.

Ferrari still has a very conservative car concept and hard tires issues.
Alonso fixed nothing.
Wasn't that the aledged reason Kimi got hid from the team ?


Nope.Kimi was fired because Massa well and truly beat him.And this is coming from a kimi fan who is sick and tired of kimi 'fanboys' suspending their intelligence everytime there is something related to alonso or ferrari.

#10257 AirWebber

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 12:41

Please don't come here to post your biased BS, get real or leave us alone.

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Thank you for the supporting material.  ;)

Alonso clocked 51.5 sec after the pit, then made several laps at the 52.0 range.

His lap times should have decrease as fuel loads go down.

#10258 as65p

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 12:57

Thank you for the supporting material. ;)

Alonso clocked 51.5 sec after the pit, then made several laps at the 52.0 range.

His lap times should have decrease as fuel loads go down.


For some people, numbers remain a mystery all their lifes... :p

#10259 Atomicus

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 13:53

Is this some sort of pre-emptive strike? :) But in all seriousness you have to admit its becoming peculiar that he has not won here in Spa yet. Goodness knows that he has had plenty of chances in race winning cars. Being overtaken on the outside in Eau Rouge itself is not one of his proudest moments either. Evidence would suggest that he in fact is not very good around this socalled drivers track. Unprovoked, he even spun out last year. Im just sayin'.


Not that Webber was ordinary, I think he did nice there, but I don't know what Alonso should have supposedly done to prevent the shameful outcome of being overtaken around Eau Rouge. Alonso was leaving pits, his car is worse than the RBR and the harder compound makes the Ferrari quite slower (not slow, but slower than RBR and McLaren). I don't see shame in that, every single top driver on the grid have been overtaken at SPA.

On the other hand, after watching Alonso's performances today (i mean, yesterday :p), in 2005, 2007, and 2008 I don't understand how can you say Alonso is bad at this so called driver track. If you ignore circumstances maybe you may be right tho :rolleyes:

Anyway, I don't want to kill the party, obviously people is free to support Alonso at all cost and to critize him also at all cost. Perhaps this way is more fun? :stoned:

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#10260 fabr68

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 16:33

What?? He put the car too far up on the wet kerb and spun. This is what Alonso said himself: "Then I went off the track, when I went over a kerb and that was my race over". It was not due to any damage that suddenly kicked in when he went too high on a kerb. Lol.

But I agree that Alonso is a very fair driver on the track. Lewis Hamilton and others could learn a thing or two in that area.


Alonso also said that his steering got damaged during the collision to the point that he had to keep his steering wheel turned for the car to ride straight. Therefore, I think it is a bit unfair to imply he could not "handle" a driver's track when driving a car that was not working well.



#10261 Cesc

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 18:34

Alonso / Ferrari did a terrible race in Spa in terms of tire management.

With the softer ones the tires were blistering, but the RedBull had even more.

With the harder ones, Alonso overcooked them setting the fastest time right away he got it so at the the of the stint they were in bad shape.

Ferrari still has a very conservative car concept and hard tires issues.
Alonso fixed nothing.
Wasn't that the aledged reason Kimi got hid from the team ?


Oh man...
Ferrari problem is exactly the opposite, they can´t get proper temperature in their tires. Alonso was fastest towards the end of the stint (probably because the fuel weight) but those prime tires were (proably) quite ok as ferrari does not get proper temperature on them so they are "under-used"...

If in Monza the Pirelli selection is soft/ super-soft we will see an extremely powerful Alonso. If not, they have to start to think about a "1 lap stint" on primes strategy.

Edited by Cesc, 29 August 2011 - 18:35.


#10262 Flamini

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 18:41

If in Monza the Pirelli selection is soft/ super-soft we will see an extremely powerful Alonso. If not, they have to start to think about a "1 lap stint" on primes strategy.


In Monza Pirelli selection is soft & medium. In Singapore will be Super-soft and soft. It's official: http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/93611

#10263 Cesc

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 19:00

In Monza Pirelli selection is soft & medium. In Singapore will be Super-soft and soft. It's official: http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/93611


So in Monza Alonso´s chances (I can´t imagine how Massa can be fastest than Alonso) are 50-50 let´s say... In Singapore he has a good chance for an extremely good result as it is the perfect combination of tires for ferrari and Alonso´s best track.

Edited by Cesc, 29 August 2011 - 19:01.


#10264 AirWebber

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 19:17

Oh man...
Ferrari problem is exactly the opposite, they can´t get proper temperature in their tires. Alonso was fastest towards the end of the stint (probably because the fuel weight) but those prime tires were (proably) quite ok as ferrari does not get proper temperature on them so they are "under-used"...

If in Monza the Pirelli selection is soft/ super-soft we will see an extremely powerful Alonso. If not, they have to start to think about a "1 lap stint" on primes strategy.

I think Alonso is just like Flipper: goes up, up, waves hello and then comes down again. :p

#10265 Atomicus

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 20:04

I think Alonso is just like Flipper: goes up, up, waves hello and then comes down again. :p


Obviously you are free to have that view but I suggest you to watch those races where Alonso didn't have serious tyre problems, perhaps you will realize then that Alonso has nothing of Flipper, maybe with the exception that he's sharpy though. :lol:

Edited by Atomicus, 29 August 2011 - 20:04.


#10266 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 20:13

Obviously you are free to have that view but I suggest you to watch those races where Alonso didn't have serious tyre problems, perhaps you will realize then that Alonso has nothing of Flipper, maybe with the exception that he's sharpy though. :lol:

I recall someone at Ferrari a couple of years ago that had serious tire problems but that was critisized and told that a good driver should be able to drive around those problems. Using that logic, Alonso should have been able to do just that and even won the race. Seeing he is the most complete driver and all. Unfortunately he didnt but got overtaken by one car after another.

#10267 AirWebber

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 20:37

I recall someone at Ferrari a couple of years ago that had serious tire problems but that was critisized and told that a good driver should be able to drive around those problems. Using that logic, Alonso should have been able to do just that and even won the race. Seeing he is the most complete driver and all. Unfortunately he didnt but got overtaken by one car after another.

Indeed.
When Massa as teamed with Kimi, Ferrari used to be WCC.
Massa was more productive.

Alonso is very egotistical and to punish Ferrari Massa refused to deliver in 2010 after the German GP.

With the Massa and Kimi combo, Ferrari had two drivers.
With the Massa and Alonso combo, Ferrari has one and half.

#10268 Atomicus

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 20:41

I recall someone at Ferrari a couple of years ago that had serious tire problems but that was critisized and told that a good driver should be able to drive around those problems. Using that logic, Alonso should have been able to do just that and even won the race. Seeing he is the most complete driver and all. Unfortunately he didnt but got overtaken by one car after another.


Problem is that logic is very unfair, IMO I don't think anyone else would have done better than that employee you are talking about from years ago or Alonso.

You can try to adapt to a different kind of tyres or a car set up or whatever, problem is that harder compounds are not very nice for Ferrari's car characteristics, and about that I don't think Alonso can do anything (and neither could that other guy from Ferrari you named) so I respectully think your critics are being a bit too harsh.

Indeed.
When Massa as teamed with Kimi, Ferrari used to be WCC.
Massa was more productive.

Alonso is very egotistical and to punish Ferrari Massa refused to deliver in 2010 after the German GP.

With the Massa and Kimi combo, Ferrari had two drivers.
With the Massa and Alonso combo, Ferrari has one and half.


Come on... So it's Alonso's fault now that Massa (who's being paid more than your will ever be) is not delivering...


Edited by Atomicus, 29 August 2011 - 20:43.


#10269 Watkins74

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 20:47

Problem is that logic is very unfair, IMO I don't think anyone else would have done better than that employee you are talking about from years ago or Alonso.

You can try to adapt to a different kind of tyres or a car set up or whatever, problem is that harder compounds are not very nice for Ferrari's car characteristics, and about that I don't think Alonso can do anything (and neither could that other guy from Ferrari you named) so I respectully think your critics are being a bit too harsh.



Come on... So it's Alonso's fault now that Massa (who's being paid more than your will ever be) is not delivering...

The problem with the logic is that when that former driver complained his teammate was just fine. Alonso has twice the points as Felipe. Something the other guy couldn't imagine in his wildest dreams.

#10270 walkindude

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 21:12

I recall someone at Ferrari a couple of years ago that had serious tire problems but that was critisized and told that a good driver should be able to drive around those problems. Using that logic, Alonso should have been able to do just that and even won the race. Seeing he is the most complete driver and all. Unfortunately he didnt but got overtaken by one car after another.


Dude are you high?I remember massa almost winning the championship in that car (i presume you mean 2008) well and truly outclassing kimi in the process.

#10271 PoleMan

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 22:35

http://www.formula1.com/video/

I think you have to wait for the FIA Race Edit or seach for some torrent.

Many thanks Fontainebleau and Air Webber! :up:

Long day at work, so haven't tried the links yet. Reading the race via the Autosport live commentary, Alonso just seemed like he was a man amongst boys at the start! And based on all the positive comments here, I've just got to see it! Cheers! :)

#10272 AirWebber

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 04:38

The problem with the logic is that when that former driver complained his teammate was just fine. Alonso has twice the points as Felipe. Something the other guy couldn't imagine in his wildest dreams.

Yes, but he achieved that destroying Felipe's mojo, which reflected in Felipe WDC and Ferrari WCC.

Alonso is +100pt behind Vettel, so his performance hasn't been brilliant this year.
The problem is some of his fans still get dazzled by his flipper tricks.

All he does is transfer the blame for getting no results to the car.
Santander paid millions and millions for Nando and Kimi and nothing.

#10273 AirWebber

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 05:24

JA Poll:
Who was your driver of the day at Spa Francorchamps?

Michael Schumacher 44.21% (1,819 votes)

Jenson Button 38.82% (1,597 votes)

Sebastian Vettel 5.76% (237 votes)

Mark Webber 5.54% (228 votes)

Fernando Alonso 4.55% (187 votes)

Nico Rosberg 0.61% (25 votes)

Adrian Sutil 0.51% (21 votes)


Total Votes: 4,114

#10274 Flamini

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 10:34

You know very well that team bosses say nothing good about drivers who are not driving for their team. If Brawn compliments drivers from other teams you can read it as : "we have a place for you". You think that Domenicali would suddenly star praising, say, Hamilton? Vettel? or that Horner would suddenly praise Alonso or Hamilton?

MS is old and wont stay long Mercedes, so why wouldnt Brawn put some nice words in for Fernando, he would be a good replacement for MS.


So by your logic this: http://www.worldcarf...-massive-regret is the evidence that McLaren wanted Alonso in 2009. Great :)



#10275 puxanando

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 12:09

:) Alonso is in Maranello, preparing fo5r Monza GP!

#10276 walkindude

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 12:22

A Ferrari 1-2 and Schumacher completing the podium.Monza will erupt !

Edited by walkindude, 30 August 2011 - 12:22.


#10277 Atomicus

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 13:25

A Ferrari 1-2 and Schumacher completing the podium.Monza will erupt !


Too sweet to be true. If I put Rosberg in the place of Schumacher, it would be sweet too.

Edited by Atomicus, 30 August 2011 - 13:25.


#10278 fabr68

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 13:50

Yes, but he achieved that destroying Felipe's mojo, which reflected in Felipe WDC and Ferrari WCC.

Alonso is +100pt behind Vettel, so his performance hasn't been brilliant this year.
The problem is some of his fans still get dazzled by his flipper tricks.

All he does is transfer the blame for getting no results to the car.
Santander paid millions and millions for Nando and Kimi and nothing.


Alonso is the only non-Red Bull driver with the most points in the Championship. If his performance has not been brilliant then all the other drivers have been even worst.

#10279 puxanando

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 14:02

Alonso is the only non-Red Bull driver with the most points in the Championship. If his performance has not been brilliant then all the other drivers have been even worst.

:up: very good answer!

Alonso & Andrea Stella

Edited by puxanando, 30 August 2011 - 14:03.


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#10280 Buttoneer

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 14:24

Kimi posts deleted.

Stay on topic and, please, do not troll the thread and avoid making personal attacks.

#10281 robefc

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 14:31

Alonso is the only non-Red Bull driver with the most points in the Championship. If his performance has not been brilliant then all the other drivers have been even worst.


Well last year I think lewis and alonso performed broadly on a par with each other in the first season where they had comparable cars since 07.

You won't get much of an argument from me over who is performing better this season though.

Massa is making judging alonso's level of performance difficult though.

Was massa affected by hungary 2009?
Was the ferrari in 2008 a much better car than we thought?
Is he close to lewis (from 2008) but alonso is simply even better than we thought with 2007 performances complicated by all the issues?
Would alonso beast any other driver as a teammate?

I'd quite like button to go to ferrari to see what happens.

#10282 Cesc

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 14:32

Yes, but he achieved that destroying Felipe's mojo, which reflected in Felipe WDC and Ferrari WCC.

Alonso is +100pt behind Vettel, so his performance hasn't been brilliant this year.
The problem is some of his fans still get dazzled by his flipper tricks.

All he does is transfer the blame for getting no results to the car.
Santander paid millions and millions for Nando and Kimi and nothing.


This is probably the most simplistic analysis that I've read. So based on your analysis I understand that there may be some other drivers that would be much close to Vettel in the standings (or leading the championship with the F150), correct? Please tell Ferrari about, they'll be thankful.

#10283 Fontainebleau

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 18:16

Well last year I think lewis and alonso performed broadly on a par with each other in the first season where they had comparable cars since 07.

You won't get much of an argument from me over who is performing better this season though.

Massa is making judging alonso's level of performance difficult though.

Was massa affected by hungary 2009?
Was the ferrari in 2008 a much better car than we thought?
Is he close to lewis (from 2008) but alonso is simply even better than we thought with 2007 performances complicated by all the issues?
Would alonso beast any other driver as a teammate?

I'd quite like button to go to ferrari to see what happens.

As you say, it is hard to judge what is going on. I personally think that we should add another factor, which is the external pressure that Massa receives from some press and fans, particularly in his home country. I was once told by a Brazilian journalist that when it comes to F1 the country is always seeking a heir to Senna, and hence the expectations on Brazilian drivers who are at a level/team where they can deliver titles is huge.

#10284 currupipi

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 19:56

i think one of the problems felipe is having is that he is destroying his tires following other drivers, it seems to me that he has more problems following close than alonso does and once he doesnt make a quick pass on someone he starts to lose performance, when he has new rubber and clear track he is quick and maintains pace

#10285 BalazsF1

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 21:05

I know Alonso is arrogant. Alonso is completely willful. Alonso is selfish. BUT you cannot deny the fact that he is the best and most complex driver out there and in the whole history of the motorsport. If somebody can't live with that, is either fool or don't follow the F1 properly. Point.

#10286 SCUDmissile

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 22:10

I think te new durable tyres have hurt Felipe. in 2009 he was brilliant aswell, and I don't think he would even remember the accident, so IMO that's not the the problem.

I think these 2010 tyres were hurting him, and these ones, but they will get better.

and as they get better, he should too.

#10287 Bruce

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 22:59

I know Alonso is arrogant. Alonso is completely willful. Alonso is selfish. BUT you cannot deny the fact that he is the best and most complex driver out there and in the whole history of the motorsport. If somebody can't live with that, is either fool or don't follow the F1 properly. Point.




ooooooh.

I mean - I really do like Alonso - but the "best and most complex driver out there and in the whole history of the motorsport"?

This puts him up against people like;

Ayrton Senna,
Alain Prost,
Jimmy Clark,
Jackie Stewart,
Juan Manuel Fangio,
Gilles Villeneuve,
Keke Rosberg,
Niki Lauda,
Jochen Rindt,
Stirling Moss,
Alberto Ascari
Tazio Nuvolari,
Rudolf Carraciola,
Bernd Rosemeyer...

to name a few. While I wouldn't hesitate to mention Alonso's name amongst these (and several other current drivers) I would balk at giving him pre-eminence...

Edited by Bruce, 30 August 2011 - 23:01.


#10288 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 05:19

Alonso / Ferrari did a terrible race in Spa in terms of tire management.

With the softer ones the tires were blistering, but the RedBull had even more.

With the harder ones, Alonso overcooked them setting the fastest time right away he got it so at the the of the stint they were in bad shape.

Ferrari still has a very conservative car concept and hard tires issues.
Alonso fixed nothing.
Wasn't that the aledged reason Kimi got hid from the team ?


Yes, Kimi's car concepts had been very conservative, they were hoping Alonso with his track record of designing radical cars would fix that. Total Alonso failure :drunk:

#10289 AirWebber

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 05:26

Yes, Kimi's car concepts had been very conservative, they were hoping Alonso with his track record of designing radical cars would fix that. Total Alonso failure :drunk:

So there was nothing wrong with Kimi :wave:

#10290 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 05:29

I think te new durable tyres have hurt Felipe. in 2009 he was brilliant aswell, and I don't think he would even remember the accident, so IMO that's not the the problem.

I think these 2010 tyres were hurting him, and these ones, but they will get better.

and as they get better, he should too.


I like your posts usually, but in the bolded part you demonstrate a poor understanding of how the brain works. It's completely possible to not remember something and be influenced by it. Freud discovered that a hundred years ago, you know. As for racing drivers, do you remember Wendlinger's crash and coma? He claimed the same, that he cannot remember and so it won't affect him. Except he was clearly not the same afterwards. Just a year ago or so there was an interview in Austrian magazine Autorevue where he said that he clearly was wrong about this at the time, and it took him years to understand and accept that it did affect him.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 31 August 2011 - 05:31.


#10291 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 05:30

So there was nothing wrong with Kimi :wave:


Oh my god.

#10292 Cesc

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 06:33

I know Alonso is arrogant. Alonso is completely willful. Alonso is selfish. BUT you cannot deny the fact that he is the best and most complex driver out there and in the whole history of the motorsport. If somebody can't live with that, is either fool or don't follow the F1 properly. Point.


Well, I guess a lot of drivers are arrogant, I don't see those attributes in Alonso more than in other current drivers in the grid.

The thing is that Alonso needs (and deserves once for all) a clearly dominant car for a whole season,as the Red Bull is, a car that out to the track is clearly the fastest in any condition (I don't want to start again the discussion about the R25 and R26... those were extremely good cars, but they were not dominant nor the fastest cars of the grid but the more consistent...in Alonso's hands).

I think a season like that would put Alonso in another level (and with the big names). Until then (and if it happens), he will always be fighting for regular podiums and a victory from time to time, growing his stats but always having to battle a lot for a small reward.

Edited by Cesc, 31 August 2011 - 06:35.


#10293 BalazsF1

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 06:41

Is there any chance to banish Mr AirWebber from this thread?
We are here to discuss about Fernando. If you don't like him then beat it at search for another playing ground. I know it is very hard to accept for some people that this Spaniard is so bloodily talented.

#10294 Skellen

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 06:52

So there was nothing wrong with Kimi :wave:


I wonder what this... um... person is doing here. Day after day trying to discredit Alonso with fail arguments. Dont you think its a waste of time, since you wont convince anybody using that tactic?

#10295 gillesthegenius

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 06:53

I am a Seb fan, but if you ask me what type of racing I enjoy the most, I would say that it is the cerebral type that Prost used to bring to the table so effectively. That is why I thoroughly enjoyed Alonso's win in Silverstone, eventhough it came at Seb's expense. :up:

But I am little disappointed that he hasnt won more races in that manner though. Ever since re-fuelling was banned I expected Alonso to bring that type of racing back into f1 and do it on a regular basis. But he has been able win only one race in such a manner over the last year and a half.

Can any Alonso fan explain why he (for the master strategist he is) hasnt been able to do it more often? :)

Edited by gillesthegenius, 31 August 2011 - 07:03.


#10296 GerhardBerger

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 08:09

I like your posts usually, but in the bolded part you demonstrate a poor understanding of how the brain works. It's completely possible to not remember something and be influenced by it. Freud discovered that a hundred years ago, you know. As for racing drivers, do you remember Wendlinger's crash and coma? He claimed the same, that he cannot remember and so it won't affect him. Except he was clearly not the same afterwards. Just a year ago or so there was an interview in Austrian magazine Autorevue where he said that he clearly was wrong about this at the time, and it took him years to understand and accept that it did affect him.


Slighlty off topic, but is that Wendlinger interview available anywhere online?

#10297 GerhardBerger

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 08:12

I am a Seb fan, but if you ask me what type of racing I enjoy the most, I would say that it is the cerebral type that Prost used to bring to the table so effectively. That is why I thoroughly enjoyed Alonso's win in Silverstone, eventhough it came at Seb's expense. :up:

But I am little disappointed that he hasnt won more races in that manner though. Ever since re-fuelling was banned I expected Alonso to bring that type of racing back into f1 and do it on a regular basis. But he has been able win only one race in such a manner over the last year and a half.

Can any Alonso fan explain why he (for the master strategist he is) hasnt been able to do it more often? :)


Well the car has been inferior to the dominant Red Bull most of the time. I also think the level of competition in terms of the drivers has gone up. Vettel has got his act together and is proving himself to be the real deal after being quite error prone in the previous 2 years. Hamilton of course is also a fierce competitor, plus Jenson is always improving.

#10298 puxanando

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 09:45

Well, I guess a lot of drivers are arrogant, I don't see those attributes in Alonso more than in other current drivers in the grid.



Is there any chance to banish Mr AirWebber from this thread?
We are here to discuss about Fernando. If you don't like him then beat it at search for another playing ground. I know it is very hard to accept for some people that this Spaniard is so bloodily talented.

:up: I am with you & very happy to find here some real objective <Alonso fans! Let's give me a BIG "Thank you" to you!

#10299 ForeverF1

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 09:59

Is there any chance to banish Mr AirWebber from this thread?
We are here to discuss about Fernando. If you don't like him then beat it at search for another playing ground. I know it is very hard to accept for some people that this Spaniard is so bloodily talented.


:up: I am with you & very happy to find here some real objective <Alonso fans! Let's give me a BIG "Thank you" to you!


All members can post in any thread. If you think they are breaking House Rules, then report the post.

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#10300 Fontainebleau

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 10:32

Well the car has been inferior to the dominant Red Bull most of the time. I also think the level of competition in terms of the drivers has gone up. Vettel has got his act together and is proving himself to be the real deal after being quite error prone in the previous 2 years. Hamilton of course is also a fierce competitor, plus Jenson is always improving.

I think your first point is a crucial one, but I also think that Gilles's initial post hints to how strategy has damaged Alonso's chances more than once, which I think we can all agree to (see Abu Dhabi 2010).

Gilles, the issue is that a driver on his own can only do so much in terms of strategy. It is the pitwall that has all the relevant information and the final word on what to do - for example, we could hear Alonso questioning the strategy during the last race, so obviously he was not making the decision there. But you are right in saying that Alonso perceives his input on strategy as one of his strong points. At the time Alonso signed with McLaren it was said that one of the factors for his move was his less-than-ideal relationship with Pat Symonds, with whom he often disagreed in terms of strategy; and Alonso has often said that while it is not true that he asked for #1 status at McLaren, it is true that he asked to have more weight when it came to designing his own strategy, which Dennis refused to give. So it is important for him to participate in it, and that explains why he asks for so much information during the race (as Andrea Stella says in the video link provided a few posts above) and expects his opinion to be taken into account.

Now, I think that in terms of extracting value from the strategy, Alonso has done more than win one race in the last year and a half - otherwise he would not have been 2nd in 2010 and currently running 3rd  ;) From the top of my head, one could argue that he would have had a shot at winning both Monaco and Spa this year thanks to strategy, but that in both cases Vettel was saved by a timely SC; and Monaco last year was another example of how to play the game. Are those examples as spectacular as what he achieved in Japan 2008, where he correctly read the fuel/tyre impact in lap times? No, but one cannot always hit the jackpot!

Fnally, a word on Button, who was brought up by GB: Button is renowed for being very good at strategy in changing conditions. I don't think that Button is better than others at reading the weather, and therefore one must conclude that in some instances he has been lucky that mother nature liked his tyre choices  ;) . But he is very good at calculating which risks he can take, given his easy handling of all tyres, and at being very patient - and as proved in Spa, that takes him further than just profiting of changing weather conditions. He and Alonso are very similar on that.