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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#10501 engel

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 17:19

You guys have this tendency to overanalyze ... on a live broadcast that they have to spend 2 hours constantly talking they often say what comes to mind. And 99.9% of the time there is no sinister motive to whatever they say, they are just expressing thoughts without the benefit of time to fully process them.

And don't make me bring up the Spanish broadcasts and how "impartial' they are, or how "respectful" they are of making sure they don't portray drivers in a negative light. Next to them DC and Brundle are PC automatons

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#10502 puxanando

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 17:24

one lap

#10503 AlanWake

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 17:41

Interesting stats:

After 13 races in 2010: 141 points/5 podiums/2 wins

After 13 races in 2011: 172 points/7 podiums/1 win

#10504 Fontainebleau

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:38

So when both DC and MB said along the lines of Lewis being annoyed inside his helmet, its the wrong thing to say because in reality they don't know. Pundits and commentators make judgements/statements about this sort of thing all the time and Brundle is quite gushing about Alonso most of the time. It fills the gaps in the commentary and if they consider every sector of fans, the coverage would go very stale. I don't agree with alot of the things he says about Lewis but I accept it at face value. Just my opinion at the end of the day and neither of us are totally right in this arguement because it is what it is. A matter of opinion. :)

The problem is that he did not say it while filling the gaps at commentary, but that he wrote it later. I don't mind him saying that Hamilton or Alonso are annoyed, I mind him hinting that the next time he is overtaken in Eau Rouge Alonso would think about doing a dangerous move, or that he did that on Vettel just because he did not want to be overtaken in a certain fashion.

#10505 Fontainebleau

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:42

You guys have this tendency to overanalyze ... on a live broadcast that they have to spend 2 hours constantly talking they often say what comes to mind. And 99.9% of the time there is no sinister motive to whatever they say, they are just expressing thoughts without the benefit of time to fully process them.

And don't make me bring up the Spanish broadcasts and how "impartial' they are, or how "respectful" they are of making sure they don't portray drivers in a negative light. Next to them DC and Brundle are PC automatons

No, let's talk about the Spanish broadcast. I challenge you to provide a quote by one of the Spanish commentators giving a driver a negative nickname like Brundle did with Alonso, or claiming that, say, Hamilton, "hates us" (leave that open as to whether "us" is Spain in general) like the BBC official broadcast in this video:

Biased they may be, but worse than the BBC? No way.

Edited by Fontainebleau, 13 September 2011 - 18:44.


#10506 engel

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 18:58

No, let's talk about the Spanish broadcast. I challenge you to provide a quote by one of the Spanish commentators giving a driver a negative nickname like Brundle did with Alonso, or claiming that, say, Hamilton, "hates us" (leave that open as to whether "us" is Spain in general) like the BBC official broadcast in this video:

Biased they may be, but worse than the BBC? No way.


two words ... Gonzalo Serrano.
Case closed

#10507 Fontainebleau

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 19:27

two words ... Gonzalo Serrano.
Case closed

Please provide a link where we can all see Gonzalo Serrano saying anything of the type of the two examples I have provided, to justify your "case closed" comment. Or are you "closing" without evidence?

Gonzalo Serrano was an idiot, but the worst he ever did was to dismiss the driving abilities of other drivers while drooling over Alonso. Plus, he has not been a member of the Spanish broadcasting team since when, 2008? Aren't Jordan and Brundle still part of the BBC team?

Edit: I understand that there is another thread to discuss F1 coverage in different countries, and that if we want to go deeper into this discussion we should probably move over there. However, I would ask the mods to leave these first few posts here, because I think that showing the type of coverage that Alonso receives by certain media/journalists is relevant to many of the discussions we have in this thread.

Edited by Fontainebleau, 13 September 2011 - 19:37.


#10508 engel

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 19:29

Please provide a link where we can all see Gonzalo Serrano saying anything of the type of the two examples I have provided, to justify your "case closed" comment. Or are you "closing" without evidence?

Gonzalo Serrano was an idiot, but the worst he ever did was to dismiss the driving abilities of other drivers while drooling over Alonso. Plus, he has not been a member of the Spanish broadcasting team since when, 2008? Aren't Jordan and Brundle still part of the BBC team?


google his commentary over Hamilton's crash in China in 2007. Or pretty much any of his commentary in 2008 about the evil Ron Dennis and the evil McLaren. Him and Lobatto were having a field day all year.

#10509 as65p

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 19:40

Well, what do they say? "Nobody wins the my-commentator-is-better-than-yours war. We're are all screwed!" :)

Or soemthing like that. Though I claim more pain than anyone when next year I have to watch german RTL again for at least ten races. :mad:

 ;)

#10510 Fontainebleau

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 19:42

google his commentary over Hamilton's crash in China in 2007. Or pretty much any of his commentary in 2008 about the evil Ron Dennis and the evil McLaren. Him and Lobatto were having a field day all year.

China 2007, this is what he says: "se ha enganchado, se ha enganchado" ("it is stuck, it is stuck", referring to Hamilton's car). "That is the miracle we were hoping for", in reference to their previous comment that Alonso could not recover the distance to his teammate unless a miracle happened. How does that compare to the "Alonso hates us" by Jordan?

May I remind you that Pedro de la Rosa was part of that broadcasting team, and if only because of that they would have never let Serrano say anything as improper as what was said in the video link I provided?

Again, specific examples of comments about Dennis and Mclaren, rather than generic statements, would be welcome.

Edited by Fontainebleau, 13 September 2011 - 19:45.


#10511 Fontainebleau

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 19:45

Well, what do they say? "Nobody wins the my-commentator-is-better-than-yours war. We're are all screwed!" :)

Or soemthing like that. Though I claim more pain than anyone when next year I have to watch german RTL again for at least ten races. :mad:

;)

:lol:

That is very true, as65p, but I am a bit fed up with this "common knowledge" that La Sexta is far worse than the BBC when it comes to bias, that nobody seems to dispute. Well, I have provided a video link that is quite telling: hopefully people can now judge by themselves. :)

#10512 engel

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 19:49

China 2007, this is what he says: "se ha enganchado, se ha enganchado" ("it is stuck, it is stuck", referring to Hamilton's car). "That is the miracle we were hoping for", in reference to their previous comment that Alonso could not recover the distance to his teammate unless a miracle happened. How does that compare to the "Alonso hates us" by Jordan?

May I remind you that Pedro de la Rosa was part of that broadcasting team, and if only because of that they would have never let Serrano say anything as improper as what was said in the video link I provided?

Again, specific examples of comments about Dennis and Mclaren, rather than generic statements, would be welcome.


So you want to argue that a couple of professional commentators calling a driver crashing out of the race "a miracle" is somehow better and less prejudicial than a pundit saying he thinks Alonso hates Hamilton/McLaren?

Wonder how you 'd react if Alonso crashed out of a race and Coulthard and Brundle all cheered and called it a miracle.

Edited by engel, 13 September 2011 - 19:52.


#10513 as65p

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 19:59

So you want to argue that a couple of professional commentators calling a driver crashing out of the race "a miracle" is somehow better and less prejudicial than a pundit saying he thinks Alonso hates Hamilton/McLaren?

Wonder how you 'd react if Alonso crashed out of a race and Coulthard and Brundle all cheered and called it a miracle.


"crashing" out? :lol:

Aren't we a wee bit melodramatic here? You make it sound as if Hamilton was in danger of getting hurt.

#10514 engel

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 20:02

"crashing" out? :lol:

Aren't we a wee bit melodramatic here? You make it sound as if Hamilton was in danger of getting hurt.


not my intention. I meant it literally, as in here's a guy poof gone from the race lets break out the champagne and celebrate the miracle. Say Brundle and Coulthard did that when Alonso retired, you 'd think it ok?

That guy is arguing that EJ, who's basically paid to be controversial, is proof of BBC bias against Alonso cause he said he thinks Alonso hates McL/Ham.

#10515 as65p

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 20:14

not my intention. I meant it literally, as in here's a guy poof gone from the race lets break out the champagne and celebrate the miracle. Say Brundle and Coulthard did that when Alonso retired, you 'd think it ok?

That guy is arguing that EJ, who's basically paid to be controversial, is proof of BBC bias against Alonso cause he said he thinks Alonso hates McL/Ham.


Well, I agree insofar as that paying attention to anything EJ says is a major mistake! :)

TBH, I guess I'm not that sensitive as some here, I don't see the big fuss over either commentary.

#10516 Anssi

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 20:19

I think the commentators on television are not very reliable. Not in my country either - I think our main commentator makes a lot of mistakes and clearly "pulls home". The only really reliable guys there have been the ex-F1 drivers Järvilehto, Salo, and Keke of course as the biggest star with the best comments and with the best insight into the business side of F1. The television channel company calls some others "F1 experts" too but I laugh at that and regularly make fun of that. I can't see how someone becomes an F1 expert just by being a spectator at the races and often talking erroneously about what he is seeing. I think it's like this in any country.

Edited by Anssi, 13 September 2011 - 20:26.


#10517 Fontainebleau

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 20:27

not my intention. I meant it literally, as in here's a guy poof gone from the race lets break out the champagne and celebrate the miracle. Say Brundle and Coulthard did that when Alonso retired, you 'd think it ok?

That guy is arguing that EJ, who's basically paid to be controversial, is proof of BBC bias against Alonso cause he said he thinks Alonso hates McL/Ham.

No; I am saying that he is in the official broadcast by the BBC, which by the way is a state-owned TV channel if I am not mistaken, saying that Alonso "hates us" ("us" as in "us British"?), Hamilton and McLaren. That is unacceptable, and a qualitative step from cheering because one of your drivers's competitors has put itself out of contention in a non-dangerous way and said driver is back in the WDC fight.

And if the BBC pays somebody to be controversial or biased, then their broadcast is controversial or biased. Or are they not to be responsible for what their employees do?

Edit: grammar

Edited by Fontainebleau, 13 September 2011 - 20:28.


#10518 Fontainebleau

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 20:33

Guys, before one of the mods gets upset about this thread drifting off topic, I am out of the discussion - I don't want to be on their black list! :p

Edited by Fontainebleau, 13 September 2011 - 20:33.


#10519 engel

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 20:38

No; I am saying that he is in the official broadcast by the BBC, which by the way is a state-owned TV channel if I am not mistaken, saying that Alonso "hates us" ("us" as in "us British"?), Hamilton and McLaren. That is unacceptable, and a qualitative step from cheering because one of your drivers's competitors has put itself out of contention in a non-dangerous way and said driver is back in the WDC fight.

And if the BBC pays somebody to be controversial or biased, then their broadcast is controversial or biased. Or are they not to be responsible for what their employees do?

Edit: grammar



OK so saying Driver A hates Driver B and Team C is biased
Cheering When Driver D goes out of the race and Driver E benefits isn't

I think I got the gist of it.

And controversy is literally the different view. Spice.It's what makes a broadcast balanced. Both Lobatto and Gonzalo Serrano were by default controvensial since they openly supported Alonso and relied on PDLR and Gene for some balanced commentary. And even PDLR is literally scared to cheer for his employer when they have a good race and Alonso has a bad one.
In La Sexta's case the broadcast is centered on Alonso. The BBC covers everybody and doesn't openly support somebody. But I am sure you can't understand the difference, or the smack you in the face obvious difference in mangitude of bias. You basically say it's ok for Spanish broadcasters to openly support Alonso and cheer his opponents failures/mistakes but .. other broadcasters have to be sure to respect Alonso's feelings. It just doesn't make any sense.

PS what was La Sexta saying in Valencia 2010 (honest question, I haven't seen their broadcast)?

Edited by engel, 13 September 2011 - 20:39.


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#10520 Buttoneer

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 20:50

Guys, before one of the mods gets upset about this thread drifting off topic, I am out of the discussion - I don't want to be on their black list! :p

Copy and paste your reply to the appropriate thread and leave a marker here - simples.

#10521 showtime

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 21:07

No, let's talk about the Spanish broadcast. I challenge you to provide a quote by one of the Spanish commentators giving a driver a negative nickname like Brundle did with Alonso, or claiming that, say, Hamilton, "hates us" (leave that open as to whether "us" is Spain in general) like the BBC official broadcast in this video:

Biased they may be, but worse than the BBC? No way.


Wow, I had never seen that clip, amazing :eek:

#10522 puxanando

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 21:11

:| Don't think that Alonso hate any other driver........

#10523 Blackmadonna

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 21:27

:| Don't think that Alonso hate any other driver........



Of course not. And he doesn't 'hate' McLaren either. Some of his fans do, but thats another story.

'Hating' is very common among any kind of fans (fans as in 'fanatics'), but for those involved, it would only be a waste of time and energy. They have better and more important things to do.



#10524 Fontainebleau

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 21:31

OK so saying Driver A hates Driver B and Team C is biased
Cheering When Driver D goes out of the race and Driver E benefits isn't

I think I got the gist of it.

And controversy is literally the different view. Spice.It's what makes a broadcast balanced. Both Lobatto and Gonzalo Serrano were by default controvensial since they openly supported Alonso and relied on PDLR and Gene for some balanced commentary. And even PDLR is literally scared to cheer for his employer when they have a good race and Alonso has a bad one.
In La Sexta's case the broadcast is centered on Alonso. The BBC covers everybody and doesn't openly support somebody. But I am sure you can't understand the difference, or the smack you in the face obvious difference in mangitude of bias. You basically say it's ok for Spanish broadcasters to openly support Alonso and cheer his opponents failures/mistakes but .. other broadcasters have to be sure to respect Alonso's feelings. It just doesn't make any sense.

PS what was La Sexta saying in Valencia 2010 (honest question, I haven't seen their broadcast)?

http://forums.autosp...p;#entry5282626

#10525 tifosiMac

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 06:26

I mind him hinting that the next time he is overtaken in Eau Rouge Alonso would think about doing a dangerous move, or that he did that on Vettel just because he did not want to be overtaken in a certain fashion.

Its all down to personal opinion. I don't mind him making a suggestion to what Alonso is thinking just like I don't mind him making a suggestion to what Hamilton is thinking when he says he is annoyed. At the end of the day he doesn't know and is voicing from his viewpoint.

#10526 YellowHelmet

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 12:39

Woow, what a great race by Fernando.
Although i have to say, that one has to be a racing purist to understand the beauty of his race.
It is not easy to give a man more credit than the guys who beated him, in that race button and vettel, but if one is a racing purist, one hast to love it.

some will mabye argue he lost 1st or 2nd position but i think that he won third, which was very odd at this weekend.

f*** is very lame right now, but how on gods earth is alonso achieving to be 2nd in championship right now. great.

Edited by YellowHelmet, 14 September 2011 - 12:40.


#10527 kosmos

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 12:59

Anyone with italian knowledge can translate this?, is from an interview with Montezemolo today.

Posted Image

#10528 joshb

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 13:25

I think he's saying Alonso is very good  ;)

#10529 puxanando

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 14:48

I think he's saying Alonso is very good ;)

:) No, he says he is the best!

#10530 AlanWake

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 15:39

Anyone with italian knowledge can translate this?, is from an interview with Montezemolo today.

Posted Image


My traduction with google help:

Monza: Are you satisfied with Alonso's third place?
"We went very well, Alonso has ignited the public with a masterful start, but our real position was that."

However, Alonso has the Ferrari...
"He is an extraordinary driver, very strong also off track. But on sunday, Massa also had a beatiful race. Fernando, like Schumacher, is able to keep a pace of qualifying. And like Michael and Lauda, he is attentive to the work of the team and collaborates with the technicians. And then it comes all the weeks in Maranello working with the simulator, drags the team with his convictions and and also knows when it's time to not to create illusions. Among other things, recently, he has even bought an Enzo Ferrari..."

Edited by AlanWake, 14 September 2011 - 15:40.


#10531 Andy865

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 15:52

Would have thought hed have gone for an FXX evo, instead of that old pope-mobile...

#10532 kosmos

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 17:22

My traduction with google help:

Monza: Are you satisfied with Alonso's third place?
"We went very well, Alonso has ignited the public with a masterful start, but our real position was that."

However, Alonso has the Ferrari...
"He is an extraordinary driver, very strong also off track. But on sunday, Massa also had a beatiful race. Fernando, like Schumacher, is able to keep a pace of qualifying. And like Michael and Lauda, he is attentive to the work of the team and collaborates with the technicians. And then it comes all the weeks in Maranello working with the simulator, drags the team with his convictions and and also knows when it's time to not to create illusions. Among other things, recently, he has even bought an Enzo Ferrari..."


Thanks for the translation, I wonder how much cost an Enzo Ferrari for someone like Alonso (or Felipe)?, 10% discount? :yawnface:


Remember guys, tomorrow is the video chat with Fernando in Ferrari.com, go there and register to watch it, is free.

Edited by kosmos, 14 September 2011 - 17:22.


#10533 YellowHelmet

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 20:43

Thanks for the translation, I wonder how much cost an Enzo Ferrari for someone like Alonso (or Felipe)?, 10% discount? :yawnface:


Remember guys, tomorrow is the video chat with Fernando in Ferrari.com, go there and register to watch it, is free.

thx for the info  ;)

#10534 showtime

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 20:52

Would have thought hed have gone for an FXX evo, instead of that old pope-mobile...


Why would he want to pay for a car that can only be used at Fiorano when he can take it for a ride there whenever he wants?

#10535 SCUDmissile

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 21:16

Felipe Massa, Fernando Alonso give JayKay from Jamiroquai some driving lessons

#10536 spinster

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 21:19

:) No, he says he is the best!


Than LDM is a stupid dumbass...

Even I am not a schum supporter but saying that Alonso is the best while he didn't win the WDC for them is just a stupid thing to say...

Dollars really make people go crazy...

#10537 puxanando

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 21:23

Even I am not a schum supporter but saying that Alonso is the best while he didn't win the WDC for them is just a stupid thing to say...


:rolleyes: Let's remember...how many years needed "the GREAT" to win his first title for Ferrari?? Which people he had beside/behind him?? How many more kilometers he could test than other drivers??

Stupid who??




#10538 Atomicus

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 21:29

Than LDM is a stupid dumbass...

Even I am not a schum supporter but saying that Alonso is the best while he didn't win the WDC for them is just a stupid thing to say...

Dollars really make people go crazy...


I don't know why is it such a stupid thing to say. Alonso is X2 WDC and won his first one quite early in his career (and very young). Others needed more than 5 full seasons to achieve it...

#10539 spinster

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 21:30

:rolleyes: Let's remember...how many years needed "the GREAT" to win his first title for Ferrari?? Which people he had beside/behind him?? How many more kilometers he could test than other drivers??

Stupid who??


BUT at that time ferrari was the 3 of 4 best time and 1,5s a lap slower than the best...

Ferrari had in 2010 a WC car...

Let's say if Kimi for exemple would have driven the 2010 car and didn't became WDC than you would here the comments...

And no i'm not a blind Kimi fan but that's the truth...

and it thought Alonso was the best car developer on earth and brings 0,6s a lap to a car? t

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#10540 puxanando

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 21:41

..

Let's say if Kimi for exemple would have driven the 2010 car and didn't became WDC than you would here the comments...


If my father would have been a billionaire right now I would have a dinner with Brad Pitt or be drinking champaign with Flavio! :smoking:


#10541 spinster

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 21:51

enjoy your champagne with Flavio... grrrrmmmhhhh...

Ever seen him in real or stand beside him? Don't think you would want that if you're rich...than rather give me something else :)

#10542 NZX_Lorne

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 22:03

Ferrari had in 2010 a WC car...

Let's say if Kimi for exemple would have driven the 2010 car and didn't became WDC than you would here the comments...

Three years of history tells us that Kimi and Felipe were very closely matched. Hence, had Kimi been driving the Ferrari last year, chances are no one would be calling it a "WC car". . .

#10543 fabr68

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 22:10

Than LDM is a stupid dumbass...

Even I am not a schum supporter but saying that Alonso is the best while he didn't win the WDC for them is just a stupid thing to say...

Dollars really make people go crazy...


Well, LDM has access to driving telemetry for MSC, Raikkonen, Massa, and Alonso. So maybe he is basing his comment on facts and on driver data comparisons.



#10544 scheivlak

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 22:20

Three years of history tells us that Kimi and Felipe were very closely matched. Hence, had Kimi been driving the Ferrari last year, chances are no one would be calling it a "WC car". . .

Well, I wouldn't call it a "WC car" anyhow :p

#10545 spinster

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 22:20

Three years of history tells us that Kimi and Felipe were very closely matched. Hence, had Kimi been driving the Ferrari last year, chances are no one would be calling it a "WC car". . .


oh come on so you pretend that Alonso is 0,4s a lap quicker... I think you need to talk to some f1 engineers...end of discussion...

#10546 spinster

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 22:22

Well, LDM has access to driving telemetry for MSC, Raikkonen, Massa, and Alonso. So maybe he is basing his comment on facts and on driver data comparisons.


That's why domenicali calls Kimi the fastest ever seen huh?

Most of you never spoke to real f1 engineers or people close to but pretend like they know...what a joke are some of you :eek:

#10547 P123

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 22:31

No; I am saying that he is in the official broadcast by the BBC, which by the way is a state-owned TV channel if I am not mistaken, saying that Alonso "hates us" ("us" as in "us British"?), Hamilton and McLaren. That is unacceptable, and a qualitative step from cheering because one of your drivers's competitors has put itself out of contention in a non-dangerous way and said driver is back in the WDC fight.

And if the BBC pays somebody to be controversial or biased, then their broadcast is controversial or biased. Or are they not to be responsible for what their employees do?

Edit: grammar


Jordan actually says 'It', not 'us'.


Edited by P123, 14 September 2011 - 22:31.


#10548 scheivlak

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 22:32

Well, LDM has access to driving telemetry for MSC, Raikkonen, Massa, and Alonso. So maybe he is basing his comment on facts and on driver data comparisons.

Ii don't think that LDM can make an expert judgement all on his own on those data ;)

Apart from that, I don't think his opinion is based on telemetry. And if he did it just on the basis of telemetry he would be very stupid.
Being fast or just driving very, very well is not enough to be called "the best driver". There's more to that.

Edited by scheivlak, 14 September 2011 - 22:33.


#10549 spinster

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 22:34

Ii don't think that LDM can make an expert judgement all on his own on those data ;)

Apart from that, I don't think his opinion is based on telemetry. And if he did it just on the basis of telemetry he would be very stupid.
Being fast or just driving very, very well is not enough to be called "the best driver". There's more to that.


:up:


#10550 Fontainebleau

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 22:39

That's why domenicali calls Kimi the fastest ever seen huh?

Most of you never spoke to real f1 engineers or people close to but pretend like they know...what a joke are some of you :eek:

Could you please provide such quote? I would be surprised if Domenicali had used such an expression as "fastest ever seen".