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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#10851 Unbiased

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 09:30

Don't ask me how I know but next year Alonso is champion :wave:

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#10852 puxanando

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 09:31

Don't ask me how I know but next year Alonso is champion :wave:

:up:

#10853 puxanando

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 09:57

“So, it is not a dramatic change in terms of our approach for this weekend. I always feel motivated because when you are a Formula 1 driver it means you are a competitive person: I don’t like cars overtaking me, I like to overtake cars. I don’t like to be on the third or fourth row of the grid, I want to be on pole position and this is why there is always a motivation to keep pushing. Now, it’s just the same, in that I want to win and I want to be on pole position. I know it might not be possible at the moment, given our current performance level, but you always have the hope you can do it. For the remaining five races we will try to do our best, trying to finish in the highest position possible.”

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#10854 Concorde

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 10:09

Don't ask me how I know but next year Alonso is champion :wave:

I'm hoping for a great fight between Fred and Vettel all throughout 2012 :up:

#10855 cilurnum

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 10:51

Philip Morris International will not be leaving Ferrari in the foreseeable future. As I said, the brands are synonymous with each other and to assume that Philip Morris as the title sponsor will allow Santander to call the shots is laughable. Had they pulled out you would have had a leg to stand on but a thin one at that...

Ferrari were, nevertheless, in a position prior to 2010 of losing their main title sponsor and needing to coax a new one into place and that was going to be Santander. That's the material business point and I'm afraid the above about synonymous brands is really quite meaningless. I noticed you absent mindedly left out when the previous Morris deal ended, which was this year. Although I don't have too much affection for him Joe Saward described the situation thus in early 2010:

http://joesaward.wor...hip-of-ferrari/

Santander's name is on the car, Philip Morris's isn't, and the nature of the two deals are very different. Santander is effectively buying space from Philip Morris, not Ferrari funnily, so Santander is effectively a customer.

#10856 cilurnum

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 11:02

You are right, business is business. That is why it is so ridiculous to imply that a sponsor that contributes 10% of the budget is somehow running the company.

If you go buy the figures PM is 'only' 20%. 10% is extremely important to any team and that is more than likely to increase over the next few years. However, you obviously didn't read the part where Ferrari were hunting around for a new title sponsor prior to 2010 which tells you how important it was for them to get Santander on board. I know some people don't like it, but that opened the door for Alonso to Ferrari. It's always been like that.

My previous example of one of the very first sponsorship deals, Gold Leaf and Lotus, dictating that Jim Clark was to run in a Formula 2 race because Chapman had promised them shows you that sponsors very much run a team and they always have done. Team bosses will often make driver decisions based on sponsors, and pay serious money out to get them if they're desperate as Ferrari did, as long as they feel the driver isn't going to wreck a lot of their cars. Obviously Alonso is a very good driver who is not going to do that. Alonso himself knows it's all part of the game.

As sure as eggs are eggs.

#10857 Fontainebleau

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 11:49

If you go buy the figures PM is 'only' 20%. 10% is extremely important to any team and that is more than likely to increase over the next few years. However, you obviously didn't read the part where Ferrari were hunting around for a new title sponsor prior to 2010 which tells you how important it was for them to get Santander on board. I know some people don't like it, but that opened the door for Alonso to Ferrari. It's always been like that.

My previous example of one of the very first sponsorship deals, Gold Leaf and Lotus, dictating that Jim Clark was to run in a Formula 2 race because Chapman had promised them shows you that sponsors very much run a team and they always have done. Team bosses will often make driver decisions based on sponsors, and pay serious money out to get them if they're desperate as Ferrari did, as long as they feel the driver isn't going to wreck a lot of their cars. Obviously Alonso is a very good driver who is not going to do that. Alonso himself knows it's all part of the game.

As sure as eggs are eggs.

So, just to make sure I follow your point entirely, are you saying that Vodafone runs McLaren and has decision-making power as to who should be the drivers and how they should be treated?

#10858 Zhuk

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 11:50

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Surprise gift from friends, Ferrari shoe signed by Fernando Alonso at the 2011 Australian GP (which I attended), it now has a hallowed place in my man cave/F1 shrine! pretty cool to have an autographed item from one of my heroes.

#10859 Ferrari2183

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 11:53

Ferrari were, nevertheless, in a position prior to 2010 of losing their main title sponsor and needing to coax a new one into place and that was going to be Santander. That's the material business point and I'm afraid the above about synonymous brands is really quite meaningless. I noticed you absent mindedly left out when the previous Morris deal ended, which was this year. Although I don't have too much affection for him Joe Saward described the situation thus in early 2010:

http://joesaward.wor...hip-of-ferrari/

Santander's name is on the car, Philip Morris's isn't, and the nature of the two deals are very different. Santander is effectively buying space from Philip Morris, not Ferrari funnily, so Santander is effectively a customer.

I did not absent mindedly leave it out. I would have thought that mentioning the extension was more than enough, which I assume was part of the original deal...

$ 1 billion over 10 years... 2005 - 2015 = 10 years. I believe the parties involved had the option to extend or dissolve the relationship.

I agree with the last statement but it is more complicated than that because the Ferrari brand is plastered everywhere Santander is mentioned and the drivers are flogging Santander credit cards. So there is some sort of sponsorship involved whether it is a seperate transaction is anyones guess.

I'm with Concorde. A season long championship battle between Alonso and Vettel, which have been the drivers of the season with Button nipping at their heels, will be good.

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#10860 Jordana

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 12:04

I did not absent mindedly leave it out. I would have thought that mentioning the extension was more than enough, which I assume was part of the original deal...

$ 1 billion over 10 years... 2005 - 2015 = 10 years. I believe the parties involved had the option to extend or dissolve the relationship.

I agree with the last statement but it is more complicated than that because the Ferrari brand is plastered everywhere Santander is mentioned and the drivers are flogging Santander credit cards. So there is some sort of sponsorship involved whether it is a seperate transaction is anyones guess.

I'm with Concorde. A season long championship battle between Alonso and Vettel, which have been the drivers of the season with Button nipping at their heels, will be good.


Being honest... If you don't know much about F1, you turn on the tv and you watch a GP... I would not be surprise if most people would think more of a team called Santader F1 that anything else... Santander is all over the car, on the drivers' t-shirts, polos, caps... It really amazes me how people can spend their money buying staff with the name of a bank on it...

#10861 Clay

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 12:44

Being honest... If you don't know much about F1, you turn on the tv and you watch a GP... I would not be surprise if most people would think more of a team called Santader F1 that anything else... Santander is all over the car, on the drivers' t-shirts, polos, caps... It really amazes me how people can spend their money buying staff with the name of a bank on it...

In the same way people would buy stuff from a drinking company on it such as Johnny Walker or RedBull (both unhealthy btw)?
Btw happy 500th post :lol:

Edited by Clay, 06 October 2011 - 12:46.


#10862 fabr68

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 14:03

If you go buy the figures PM is 'only' 20%. 10% is extremely important to any team and that is more than likely to increase over the next few years. However, you obviously didn't read the part where Ferrari were hunting around for a new title sponsor prior to 2010 which tells you how important it was for them to get Santander on board. I know some people don't like it, but that opened the door for Alonso to Ferrari. It's always been like that.

My previous example of one of the very first sponsorship deals, Gold Leaf and Lotus, dictating that Jim Clark was to run in a Formula 2 race because Chapman had promised them shows you that sponsors very much run a team and they always have done. Team bosses will often make driver decisions based on sponsors, and pay serious money out to get them if they're desperate as Ferrari did, as long as they feel the driver isn't going to wreck a lot of their cars. Obviously Alonso is a very good driver who is not going to do that. Alonso himself knows it's all part of the game.

As sure as eggs are eggs.


So your are saying that if your company (to which you are CEO) gets a partner that invests 10-20%, you will leave your CEO office and let them call all the shots? That is a desperate way to run business and Ferrari is anything but a team desperate for money.

Lets not confuse things. A title sponsor is a position every other Formula 1 team fills. It is just someone willing to pay for a large amount of logos on the team's outfit. A title sponsor does not tell a team boss who and how their team will run. Especially when the team gets 80% of their money somewhere else.

You are using some examples with other teams which are irrelevant. Ferrari does not live on sponsors alone. Most of their revenues comes from manufacturing and selling exotic sports cars which typically have a two-year waiting period and a long list of hand-picked exclusive customers.

#10863 Jordana

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 14:07

In the same way people would buy stuff from a drinking company on it such as Johnny Walker or RedBull (both unhealthy btw)?
Btw happy 500th post :lol:


Are you going to compare a bank with a drinking company? Guau... :eek:

And I don't think Johnny Walker or Red Bull are unhealthy, of course that's only my opinion but at least, they don't steal money from you. :lol:

#10864 Clay

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 14:17

Are you going to compare a bank with a drinking company? Guau... :eek:

And I don't think Johnny Walker or Red Bull are unhealthy, of course that's only my opinion but at least, they don't steal money from you. :lol:


It's not a matter of opinion, with the exception of drinks of the likes of cider or wine alcoholic drinks are unhealthy, also RedBull, said by doctors,

Also, not all banks steal money (they are not stealing anything from me at Santander and ING Direct).

And just go down to your local grocery store and ask for a RedBull can (1,60e here) :lol:... If you consider banks steal money you should do the same with those drinking cans that in reality only cost few cents to be produced.

#10865 cilurnum

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 14:35

So your are saying that if your company (to which you are CEO) gets a partner that invests 10-20%, you will leave your CEO office and let them call all the shots? That is a desperate way to run business and Ferrari is anything but a team desperate for money.

If someone is investing that kind of proportion you would be very surprised as to the demands that are made. All teams have been like this for the past few years and every reasonably large sponsor who could possibly turn into an even bigger one is gold dust. McLaren have done it with Vodafone and other teams have moved mountains internally to get sponsors in on long-term deals. You don't lay out 20 odd million to smooth a new sponsor in unless there is some payoff.

You are using some examples with other teams which are irrelevant.

They are NOT irrelevant at all. It clearly shows the lengths to which teams have always gone, even with regards to their drivers, to ensure sponsors are happy.

Ferrari does not live on sponsors alone. Most of their revenues comes from manufacturing and selling exotic sports cars which typically have a two-year waiting period and a long list of hand-picked exclusive customers.

Fiat has subsidised Ferrari for a long time and Fiat is not doing so well these days. Every single team on the grid needs to pay its way. The days of pure manufacturer teams are over, and Mercedes cannot have much longer themselves.

#10866 cilurnum

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 14:51

I did not absent mindedly leave it out. I would have thought that mentioning the extension was more than enough, which I assume was part of the original deal...

When the deal ended had everything to do with Ferrari's activities.

$ 1 billion over 10 years... 2005 - 2015 = 10 years. I believe the parties involved had the option to extend or dissolve the relationship.

The 2005 deal was always going to end this year regardless unless PM could be massaged into signing. Coincidentally perhaps, the deal was signed when Raikkonen was signed and lasted for the duration of his contract.

I'm still not sure what PM gets out of it to be honest though, and I wouldn't be paying that kind of money for subliminal and unseen marketing. It's a sponsorship I find pretty curious. But, there we are.


#10867 Concorde

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 14:52

What part of Fernando Alonso is too difficult to understand for you boys? :rolleyes:
There's a separate Philip Morris thread, that way ->

#10868 Jordana

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 14:56

It's not a matter of opinion, with the exception of drinks of the likes of cider or wine alcoholic drinks are unhealthy, also RedBull, said by doctors,

Also, not all banks steal money (they are not stealing anything from me at Santander and ING Direct).

And just go down to your local grocery store and ask for a RedBull can (1,60e here) :lol:... If you consider banks steal money you should do the same with those drinking cans that in reality only cost few cents to be produced.



1.60 for a Red Bull can?... Please, whoever go to that store to buy Red Bull should take them to court... :lol:

Funny how you talk about banks because, in general, they don't have a huge amount of fans all over the world... :mad:

And about what doctors say, trust them blindly is very dangerous, ask anybody who know how the pharmaceutical companies behave and then we talk.... I remember here in Spain, many years ago, olive oil was the worst, today it's the most healthy food in the world... Even though, in Dennmark, now they disagree...

And I'm done here, we are very much off topic and I am pretty sure that the moderator is not far away and soon we'll get news from him... ;)

Edited by Jordana, 06 October 2011 - 14:57.


#10869 fabr68

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 15:06

If someone is investing that kind of proportion you would be very surprised as to the demands that are made. All teams have been like this for the past few years and every reasonably large sponsor who could possibly turn into an even bigger one is gold dust. McLaren have done it with Vodafone and other teams have moved mountains internally to get sponsors in on long-term deals. You don't lay out 20 odd million to smooth a new sponsor in unless there is some payoff.


Yes. You get to put your logos all over the car and team and driver's overalls. Twenty million is about the right amount all title sponsors pay to all teams for putting their logos on. Nothing else. We don't hear the nonsense of Vodafone firing technical staff or running the reorganization at Mclaren or any other team because they became title sponsors. It does not happen to big teams that get most their money from multiple sponsors and running a business on their own. I can see backmarker teams being subdued to sponsors wishes, but we are talking about Ferrari and not backmarker teams.

Fiat has subsidised Ferrari for a long time and Fiat is not doing so well these days. Every single team on the grid needs to pay its way. The days of pure manufacturer teams are over, and Mercedes cannot have much longer themselves.


Yes and Mercedes subsidized Mclaren for a while owning 40% or so of the team. Mercedes was never able to get a driver of their liking into Mclaren. They ended up parting ways and getting their own team together with drivers of their choice.

Therefore, not all teams get influenced by sponsors the same way. Big teams like Mclaren and Ferrari do not depend on one sponsor alone. They have multiple sponsors and run their own businesses. While they may work to keep their sponsors "happy", it is a totally different story to say that the CEO of one of the sponsor companies is calling all the shots within the team and overuling the team bosses.


#10870 kosmos

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 15:14

9 minute interview with Fernando in Ferrari.com, if the link don't works, check the main F1 site in Ferrari.com

http://www.ferrari.c...rariTVHome.aspx

The usual suspects again derailing the thread and bringing their paranoia alive, nothing changes.


#10871 Clay

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 15:24

1.60 for a Red Bull can?... Please, whoever go to that store to buy Red Bull should take them to court... :lol:

Funny how you talk about banks because, in general, they don't have a huge amount of fans all over the world... :mad:

And about what doctors say, trust them blindly is very dangerous, ask anybody who know how the pharmaceutical companies behave and then we talk.... I remember here in Spain, many years ago, olive oil was the worst, today it's the most healthy food in the world... Even though, in Dennmark, now they disagree...

And I'm done here, we are very much off topic and I am pretty sure that the moderator is not far away and soon we'll get news from him...;)


Ok, doctors have no idea, big % of alcohol, taurine or insane amounts of cafeine are not unhealthy. Point taken. :lol: I bet you wouldn't have said what you said if Alonso was wearing JW and RBR logos while your driver Santander suits...

I'm out of the discussion. Still 2 days to go, I want to see if Alonso can reach the podium and Ferrari's car surprise us. But since not only we have now more problems that the rest at heating the tyres but also we get them more degradated than others I'm not very positive about the weekend... Tho no matter if it's for a win or to finish 5th Alonso will surely be flawless and top noch.
:clap:

#10872 Fontainebleau

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 15:33

http://i56.tinypic.com/30d8dn4.jpg

Surprise gift from friends, Ferrari shoe signed by Fernando Alonso at the 2011 Australian GP (which I attended), it now has a hallowed place in my man cave/F1 shrine! pretty cool to have an autographed item from one of my heroes.

And very original too - I would have never thought of a shoe, but it looks very appropriate for a shelf! :)

#10873 kosmos

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 15:53

Got this from the Japan preview thread.

Posted Image

The cards for 2012 and 2013 are a little nice touch :up:

#10874 puxanando

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 16:06

Posted Image

:love: wow...Nando has real long hair now!

Edited by puxanando, 06 October 2011 - 16:09.


#10875 SCUDmissile

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 16:46

i know a nice barber, fernando. that is dodgy. :drunk:

#10876 AlanWake

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 19:57

Got this from the Japan preview thread.

Posted Image

The cards for 2012 and 2013 are a little nice touch :up:


Great pic. Fernando Alonso has always been very popular in Japan, even before to get his first WDC.

As always, Japanese F1 Fans are great! :up:


#10877 puxanando

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 11:10

Posted Image Posted Image

#10878 KirilVarbanov

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 13:01

:love: wow...Nando has real long hair now!

He must be mad - this adds weight! :) He needs a haircut very badly :)

#10879 Clay

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 13:03

He has a lot of common in that regard with certain finn. They both thought long hair suit them but they are much better with short hair. :p

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#10880 Jordana

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 13:09

He has a lot of common in that regard with certain finn. They both thought long hair suit them but they are much better with short hair. :p


Clay, in some way, you are right but...Pleaseeeeeee... Do not compare... :lol:

I don't want anybody to get mad at me but Alonso's look is dreadful. :|

#10881 as65p

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 13:29

Clay, in some way, you are right but...Pleaseeeeeee... Do not compare... :lol:

I don't want anybody to get mad at me but Alonso's look is dreadful. :|


Probably. Okay, maybe you're completely right, it is. Then again, with an avatar like yours, you're not really qualified to judge, I'd say. There are a thousand pics out there where Kimi doesn't look so... tacky. :p

#10882 Jordana

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 13:55

Probably. Okay, maybe you're completely right, it is. Then again, with an avatar like yours, you're not really qualified to judge, I'd say. There are a thousand pics out there where Kimi doesn't look so... tacky. :p


Watch out! We're going off topic!  ;)

Nevertheless, I would say that I prefer my guy with short hair but he looks OK now that he feels like wearing it long... Alonso is different, he is not a good looking man and it gets worse with such long hair... :rolleyes:

The glamour is gone chez Ferrari... :rolleyes:

#10883 as65p

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 15:39

Watch out! We're going off topic! ;)

Nevertheless, I would say that I prefer my guy with short hair but he looks OK now that he feels like wearing it long... Alonso is different, he is not a good looking man and it gets worse with such long hair... :rolleyes:


Okay. Won't argue with a girl about the looks of men, that would be even more futile than what we usually do around here. :wave:

#10884 Jordana

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 15:44

Okay. Won't argue with a girl about the looks of men, that would be even more futile than what we usually do around here. :wave:



Oh well... Not a girl anymore (I could be Vettel's mom so imagine...) but thanks anyway!

Edited by Jordana, 07 October 2011 - 15:44.


#10885 puxanando

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 16:53

Alonso is different, he is not a good looking man and it gets worse with such long hair... :rolleyes:

The glamour is gone chez Ferrari... :rolleyes:


You are only ONE person/woman! There are a lot in whole the world who thinks different, me incluided!
Why are you so intolerant? :rolleyes:


#10886 Smile17

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 18:01

Watch out! We're going off topic! ;)

Nevertheless, I would say that I prefer my guy with short hair but he looks OK now that he feels like wearing it long... Alonso is different, he is not a good looking man and it gets worse with such long hair... :rolleyes:

The glamour is gone chez Ferrari... :rolleyes:


Since when is Kimi R good looking? Especially compared to someone like Alonso? :well: ok
Reality is; glamour has finally returned at Ferrari! I mean just 'everything' The team looked dreadful with Kimi on-board.

Thanks for the good laugh Jordana!

Edited by Smile17, 07 October 2011 - 18:07.


#10887 yr

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 18:13

You are only ONE person/woman! There are a lot in whole the world who thinks different, me incluided!
Why are you so intolerant? :rolleyes:


I really hope you are a woman, otherwise... well, you know, we might think you are quite weird.

PS. same goes for smile17 too.

#10888 Mackey

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 18:19

Are you really discussing if a driver is more handsome than other. Oh my.... :rotfl:

#10889 Smile17

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 18:25

Are you really discussing if a driver is more handsome than other. Oh my.... :rotfl:


yeah kinda I guess, Mrs Jordana started the discussion. Anyway, you don't have to be a woman to know how the wind blows in this case... :lol:
You should talk with that kind of icon/avatar!

Edited by Smile17, 07 October 2011 - 18:50.


#10890 Mr j

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 18:26

I really hope you are a woman, otherwise... well, you know, we might think you are quite weird.

PS. same goes for smile17 too.


Well, you've got to give them some credit for not only thinking their favourite driver is the best driver but also good looking. That's a really good fan, perhaps not totally unbiased but a really really good fan.

#10891 yr

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 18:35

Well, you've got to give them some credit for not only thinking their favourite driver is the best driver but also good looking. That's a really good fan, perhaps not totally unbiased but a really really good fan.


Well, sure, thats what I would call being totally comitted... :lol:

Edited by yr, 07 October 2011 - 19:00.


#10892 SCUDmissile

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 18:45

:drunk: :drunk: :stoned:

what in the hell just happened???

anyways, it may take a superhuman effort from him to get near the bulls, but would love Alonso to win here again.

#10893 Mr j

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 19:00

:drunk: :drunk: :stoned:

what in the hell just happened???

anyways, it may take a superhuman effort from him to get near the bulls, but would love Alonso to win here again.


It could happen, with a lot of DNFs or if the illegal starting system, that Alonso brought from Renault, gives them an edge in the start that pulls him and Massa in the lead in the first lap and Massa then blocking the rest of the field for the rest of the race to help Alonso win. It could happen!

#10894 currupipi

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 19:07

It could happen, with a lot of DNFs or if the illegal starting system, that Alonso brought from Renault, gives them an edge in the start that pulls him and Massa in the lead in the first lap and Massa then blocking the rest of the field for the rest of the race to help Alonso win. It could happen!



:rotfl:

Edited by currupipi, 07 October 2011 - 19:07.


#10895 SCUDmissile

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 19:09

It could happen, with a lot of DNFs or if the illegal starting system, that Alonso brought from Renault, gives them an edge in the start that pulls him and Massa in the lead in the first lap and Massa then blocking the rest of the field for the rest of the race to help Alonso win. It could happen!

lol or all the other cars could be banned, as they would then be illegal aswell, but luckily for Alonso, Botin/LdM/Max/Todt/Illuminati will make sure his car is declared 'legal' :p

#10896 Mr j

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 19:15

lol or all the other cars could be banned, as they would then be illegal aswell, but luckily for Alonso, Botin/LdM/Max/Todt/Illuminati will make sure his car is declared 'legal' :p

:rotfl: :up:

#10897 puxanando

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 20:28

The glamour is gone chez Ferrari... :rolleyes:


:cat: So you can be happy that your boy perhaps will bring the GLAMOUR to Williams, meanwhile Alonso will get some more title with the italian scuderia!


#10898 Clay

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 20:36

It could happen, with a lot of DNFs or if the illegal starting system, that Alonso brought from Renault, gives them an edge in the start that pulls him and Massa in the lead in the first lap and Massa then blocking the rest of the field for the rest of the race to help Alonso win. It could happen!


Illegal starting system? What a cute attempt of flammebaiting.

Edited by Clay, 07 October 2011 - 20:37.


#10899 yr

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 20:39

:cat: So you can be happy that your boy perhaps will bring the GLAMOUR to Williams, meanwhile Alonso will get some more title with the italian scuderia!


Unless you havent noticed it, Fernando hasnt bring any titles to Maranello yet, maybe he will deliver or maybe not, but you would be smart by not banging the championship drum already before Alonso actually brings it in, no?

Btw big :up: for Kimi for bringing latest WDC to Ferrari. :up: :up: :up:

Edited by yr, 07 October 2011 - 20:40.


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#10900 ASFA2011

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 21:33

Unless you havent noticed it, Fernando hasnt bring any titles to Maranello yet, maybe he will deliver or maybe not, but you would be smart by not banging the championship drum already before Alonso actually brings it in, no?

Btw big :up: for Kimi for bringing latest WDC to Ferrari. :up: :up: :up:


There we go with Kimi again in the Alonso thread ... :rolleyes: