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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#11051 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 08:37

Alonso on the limiter in Massa's tow on lap 1, I wonder if he was on the limiter in the DRS zone all race.

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#11052 Unbiased

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 08:41

Well, to be fair to Ferrari, if they make Massa move over they get thrashed for ruining Massa's race, and now if they don't, they get thrashed for ruining Alonso's race :p



#11053 se7en_24

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 08:46

i think also it was that, but with that they threw a podium away.

Ferrari strategy once again :down:

Maybe lolonso should learn to beat his teammate earlier on track rather than needing the team to tell him to move over.

Edited by se7en_24, 16 October 2011 - 08:46.


#11054 ali.unal

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 08:46

Alonso now told BBC that he did 20 qualifying laps and "in one of them I was very close to wall, so I asked the team how many laps were there, they told me 2, and then I said I gave up. It was too late."

He also added that he didn't feel he was held up by Massa cause he thinks he wasn't that much quicker at the beginning.

Edited by ali.unal, 16 October 2011 - 08:47.


#11055 Ferrari2183

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 08:47

Well, to be fair to Ferrari, if they make Massa move over they get thrashed for ruining Massa's race, and now if they don't, they get thrashed for ruining Alonso's race :p

Pretty sad really. I haven't watched the race as yet and I'm starting to wonder if I should.

#11056 garoidb

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 09:28

Well, to be fair to Ferrari, if they make Massa move over they get thrashed for ruining Massa's race, and now if they don't, they get thrashed for ruining Alonso's race :p


The real problem for Ferrari is that Massa cannot match or even approach Alonso's race performances. If he could have caught up to the Hamilton-Webber-Button group and compete for a podium, then it would not matter that Alonso was behind.

#11057 Ferrari2183

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 09:39

The real problem for Ferrari is that Massa cannot match or even approach Alonso's race performances. If he could have caught up to the Hamilton-Webber-Button group and compete for a podium, then it would not matter that Alonso was behind.

Problem was, as I heard it, that the running order was Rosberg, Massa, Alonso and Alonso couldn't get by because Massa was using his DRS as well.

This all stems from Alonso's poor qualifying.

I agree about Massa though... He gets optimal strategy and still finishes the race behind his teammate. That is just piss poor. Ferrari need to dump him asap.

Edit: it was Rosberg instead of Button.

Edited by Ferrari2183, 16 October 2011 - 09:47.


#11058 topical

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 09:49

Yes, Alonso's problems started with qualifying yesterday. If he'd been ahead of Massa on the grid this situation wouldn't have arisen. He needs to sort that out.

Strategy for both drivers at the first pit stop was rubbish. Both were ahead of Button and Rosberg: both came out behind.

Alonso's last stint was great but too little too late. And in fact more depressing than anything was that last lap by Vettel. It shows that he was more or less just cruising the whole race and had everything under control. Make no mistake, this is Schumacher 2004 all over again and the rest of the field are nowhere near him.

#11059 Fontainebleau

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 09:58

Problem was, as I heard it, that the running order was Button, Massa, Alonso and Alonso couldn't get by because Massa was using his DRS as well.

This all stems from Alonso's poor qualifying.

I agree about Massa though... He gets optimal strategy and still finishes the race behind his teammate. That is just piss poor. Ferrari need to dump him asap.

Not really - Button was never right ahead of Massa and Alonso, both of them overtook him in the first two laps. Just before the firts pit stop, the running order was Webber-Massa-Alonso-Button-Rosberg, and nobody seemed to be able to overtake the car in front. Button and Rosberg both pitted to overtake (as heard over the team radio), Massa chose to stay out. As a consequence, Button and Rosberg came back on track ahead of Massa. Massa then pitted together with Webber, Schumacher and Petrov, and lost time coming out of the pits because of incoming cars. Alonso pitted on the following lap, after having a terrible in lap because apparently his tyres suddenly gave up.

So it did not all stem from poor qualifying: had Ferrari pitted one of their cars with Button and Rosberg, both Ferraris could have been in a better position than they found themselves after this round of stops (certainly in no worse one). Had Massa pitted he would not have lost position and Alonso would have had one good lap on his tyres before pitting himself. Had Alonso pitted he would have overtaken Massa, as Button and Rosberg did, and also come out ahead of both the McLaren and the Mercedes, and Massa would have had one more lap to try and overtake Webber without having to worry about Alonso being behind him.

Note: once both Ferraris found themselves behind Rosberg they did lose some time, but both managed to overtake the Mercedes.

Edited by Fontainebleau, 16 October 2011 - 09:59.


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#11060 Ferrari2183

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 10:04

Fountain, I've edited my post already.

#11061 King Six

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 10:15

Alonso now told BBC that he did 20 qualifying laps and "in one of them I was very close to wall, so I asked the team how many laps were there, they told me 2, and then I said I gave up. It was too late."

He also added that he didn't feel he was held up by Massa cause he thinks he wasn't that much quicker at the beginning.

Exactly, I hope everyone else realises this. He wasn't being held up, he just wasn't faster (at that stage of the race). Same for Webber and Hamilton, we saw today that it was possible to overtake with DRS and KERS, you just needed to be fast enough. End of story.

Edited by King Six, 16 October 2011 - 10:15.


#11062 Ferrari2183

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 10:27

Exactly, I hope everyone else realises this. He wasn't being held up, he just wasn't faster (at that stage of the race). Same for Webber and Hamilton, we saw today that it was possible to overtake with DRS and KERS, you just needed to be fast enough. End of story.

:up: :up: :up:

I really don't know what the fuss is about. You can maybe blame the strategy for the first round of stops but other than that everything was fair game.

#11063 P123

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 10:31

Agreed. If this continues Alonso should think about packng his bags and get to Red Bull. There is only so much stupidity you can tolerate.


Only problem is that he would find himself behind Vettel more often than he has found himself behind Massa. That wouldn't lighten his mood.

#11064 puxanando

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 10:49

Lucky Alonso

#11065 topical

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 11:10

Lucky Alonso


I think we all saw the clip about ten times during the race already...

#11066 AlanWake

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 11:24

Lucky Alonso


Indeed, as I said he was lucky, but to be fair he was very good reacting to what he was seeing next to him.

That ability to respond quickly, reminded me of Bahrain 2006, when Felipe almost takes him out, after spinning in the first laps:

#11067 topical

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 11:43

Indeed, as I said he was lucky, but to be fair he was very good reacting to what he was seeing next to him.

That ability to respond quickly, reminded me of Bahrain 2006, when Felipe almost takes him out, after spinning in the first laps:


LOL, I love Brundle's comment: "that's just the sort of thing you're expecting from Massa..."!

#11068 King Six

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 11:55

I have no idea what Alonso and Petrov were doing ballsing down the straight with so much overspeed into the corner in the first place, it's like where the hell did that come from :stoned:

#11069 P123

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 11:59

Indeed, as I said he was lucky, but to be fair he was very good reacting to what he was seeing next to him.

That ability to respond quickly, reminded me of Bahrain 2006, when Felipe almost takes him out, after spinning in the first laps:


He wasn't really reacting, he had outbraked himself too, and was fortunate Petrov didn't clip him in the run-off.

#11070 YellowHelmet

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 13:34

I see we are discussing three things right now:

1) Was Alonso two slow in the first two stints and is that the reason that he couldnt overtake Massa?
As Alonso had shown in the end of the second stint, that he was about 1 second/lap driving faster than Massa, after Massa went into pits, i think we can see, that Alonsos statements on that were just meant as a defense of the team in public, which is good for the team, but not for our analyses, coz in the laps he could drove without Massa in front of him showed us, that he was way faster as Massa.
But if he was faster than Massa, why couldnt he overtake him?
The reasons are: on that track there is one (maybe two) overtaking spots. For that you have to come out, as the follower, very strong out of corner one. Ferrari was lacking mechanical grip in that corner, especially when driving behind others (as also seen from webber, losing a lot of time out of corner one behind hamilton). + Alonso came into the limiter + Massa was also using drs coz he was following a car in front of his own.
There was no real posibility to overtake, but it would had been easy for the team to make a strategical correction of the order, for the best for the team.
They screwed it up there, and lost a very important podium.


2) Was Alonsos grid position decisive for todays race outcome?

As we have seen, he had already overtook Massa after start, but he had pity with the racing situations in front of him, which he couldnt influence (Webber, Button + Massa)
So his starting position 6, instead of 5 was not the real decider for the outcome. ferrari still had enough chances to honour their team efforts with a podium, with making the right decisions.



3) "I give up" quote: how was it meant?
Many people will interpret this differently. there are many possibilities, but if you follow Alonso closely one of those possibilities (the following) is the most common:
He gave up on his personal ambitions (to end up higher, and so risking a crash), to score important points for the team + concentrating the critics on him instead of the team, (not to forget he was running out of fuel, too).

Edited by YellowHelmet, 16 October 2011 - 13:37.


#11071 fieraku

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 14:01

First post here ;)

It's a perfect opportunity to gloat and bash just to get even with "some" FA fans that have been kicking LH while he's been down,in every thread that bears his name but I'm better than that!

"I give up" is the frustration of a great driver being tired of the car period,something Lewis has showed for a while.Yes Mac has been much better but so what,not to win the title good.
These 2 aren't much different from e/o,they both believe they can win every GP and beat anyone out there, and today FA fans saw frustration get the better of him. Sad really,if I were a team owner with billions to spare I wouldn't have two other drivers on my team.For entertainment/pure racing value it'd be MAGIC every race!

#11072 PoleMan

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 14:44

First post here ;)

It's a perfect opportunity to gloat and bash just to get even with "some" FA fans that have been kicking LH while he's been down,in every thread that bears his name but I'm better than that!

"I give up" is the frustration of a great driver being tired of the car period,something Lewis has showed for a while.Yes Mac has been much better but so what,not to win the title good.
These 2 aren't much different from e/o,they both believe they can win every GP and beat anyone out there, and today FA fans saw frustration get the better of him. Sad really,if I were a team owner with billions to spare I wouldn't have two other drivers on my team.For entertainment/pure racing value it'd be MAGIC every race!

Interesting view, but I'm not sure it matches up, AT ALL, with what we witnessed or Alonso's explanation. He was pushing like Hell, but after taking gobs of time out of Hamilton, Webber and Button, he realized he didn't have enough laps left to finish the job, and expressed his disappointment. It was that Red Car that got him in that position. Maybe mixed in there was frustration at being so many laps behind Massa in 2nd stint (1st stint, I don't think stopwatch showed he was faster than Felipe.). As for Lewis and Fernando together again under one roof...maybe it will happen. Will Buxton's conversation with Lewis, and his continued sharp tone with RE on the radio, indicate he and the McLaren Team seem very estranged. Think Button may have made McLaren his home and Lewis may be looking elsewhere. Sad really, considering he grew up there. :(

#11073 Fontainebleau

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 14:44

Fernando Alonso Explains 'Give Up' Call: BBC F1 2011 - Round 16: Korean GP

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded



#11074 AlanWake

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 15:02

Actions speak louder than words. He kept pushing hard anyway after he said that to Andrea Stella, so he really didn't give up :)

Edited by AlanWake, 16 October 2011 - 15:02.


#11075 fabr68

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 15:13

First post here ;)

It's a perfect opportunity to gloat and bash just to get even with "some" FA fans that have been kicking LH while he's been down,in every thread that bears his name but I'm better than that!

"I give up" is the frustration of a great driver being tired of the car period,something Lewis has showed for a while.Yes Mac has been much better but so what,not to win the title good.
These 2 aren't much different from e/o,they both believe they can win every GP and beat anyone out there, and today FA fans saw frustration get the better of him. Sad really,if I were a team owner with billions to spare I wouldn't have two other drivers on my team.For entertainment/pure racing value it'd be MAGIC every race!


Nice spin.

So crashing with a dozen of drivers and getting about five drive through penalties is the "same" as saying "I give up" with two laps to go and seven seconds away of the guy in front of you.

:rotfl:

Please. Everyone knows what Alonso meant. Nice try.

#11076 prty

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 15:14

First post here ;)

It's a perfect opportunity to gloat and bash just to get even with "some" FA fans that have been kicking LH while he's been down,in every thread that bears his name but I'm better than that!

"I give up" is the frustration of a great driver being tired of the car period,something Lewis has showed for a while.Yes Mac has been much better but so what,not to win the title good.
These 2 aren't much different from e/o,they both believe they can win every GP and beat anyone out there, and today FA fans saw frustration get the better of him. Sad really,if I were a team owner with billions to spare I wouldn't have two other drivers on my team.For entertainment/pure racing value it'd be MAGIC every race!


It's not a perfect opportunity for anything, because unlike Hamilton, he is not down in any way :lol:

#11077 se7en_24

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 15:25

Indeed, as I said he was lucky, but to be fair he was very good reacting to what he was seeing next to him.

That ability to respond quickly, reminded me of Bahrain 2006, when Felipe almost takes him out, after spinning in the first laps:

He was so good that he reacted before Petrov did and outbraked himself. What a guy Alonso is he can even see into the future. :eek:

#11078 ghost

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 15:29

He was so good that he reacted before Petrov did and outbraked himself. What a guy Alonso is he can even see into the future. :eek:


people call it experience

#11079 topical

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 15:45

"I give up" is the frustration of a great driver being tired of the car period,something Lewis has showed for a while.Yes Mac has been much better but so what,not to win the title good.
These 2 aren't much different from e/o,they both believe they can win every GP and beat anyone out there, and today FA fans saw frustration get the better of him. Sad really,if I were a team owner with billions to spare I wouldn't have two other drivers on my team.For entertainment/pure racing value it'd be MAGIC every race!


Good post! People are reading way too much into the "I give up" comment. It was neither "mind games" as the BBC commentators ridiculously speculated, nor an attack on the team. It was just a driver letting his emotions and frustration get the better of him and voicing it over the radio - exactly as Hamilton has done several times this year. It's a little petulant but understandable.

I totally agree with you - Lewis and Alonso are similar in some ways and it's a pity they no longer drive together. It's also a great shame that neither of them have anything like the equipment they need to take on Vettel. Hopefully next year.

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#11080 fieraku

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 15:46

Nice spin.

So crashing with a dozen of drivers and getting about five drive through penalties is the "same" as saying "I give up" with two laps to go and seven seconds away of the guy in front of you.

:rotfl:

Please. Everyone knows what Alonso meant. Nice try.

What I meant is that god forbid LH said that ther'd be three simultaneous threads "Lewis the quitter" by the same FA fans that now say "Everyone knows what FA meant"
It's OT anyway,great job by FA! :up:

#11081 cilurnum

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 15:49

Please. Everyone knows what Alonso meant.

Yes, we do, and I can't say I blame him to be honest.

#11082 fieraku

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 15:54

Good post! People are reading way too much into the "I give up" comment. It was neither "mind games" as the BBC commentators ridiculously speculated, nor an attack on the team. It was just a driver letting his emotions and frustration get the better of him and voicing it over the radio - exactly as Hamilton has done several times this year. It's a little petulant but understandable.

I totally agree with you - Lewis and Alonso are similar in some ways and it's a pity they no longer drive together. It's also a great shame that neither of them have anything like the equipment they need to take on Vettel. Hopefully next year.

That's what I meant,these professional commentators/F1 pundits have turned into Hollywood/garbage tabloid journalism feeding the uninformed/newer fans with a lot of BS stories. :down: .

#11083 cardin

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 16:26

Maybe lolonso should learn to beat his teammate earlier on track rather than needing the team to tell him to move over.

You are not going to be very popular here with this view. The people here, as Alonso, love 'radio racing'.

#11084 cardin

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 16:33

Pretty sad really. I haven't watched the race as yet and I'm starting to wonder if I should.


But that didn't stop you from comming here and bash. How pathetic.


#11085 Watkins74

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 16:48

Maybe it was just watching in the middle of the night but the race was a little strange. I kept waiting for Alonso to pass Button, the same time I was waiting for Button to pass Webber, who I was waiting to see pass Hamilton.

Oh well.....it's just a race. On to the next one. :smoking:

#11086 jj2728

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 17:10

There's thinking it and then there's saying it for the whole world to hear. The Italian media is gonna have a field day with this.

#11087 Onsokumaru

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 18:34

Actions speak louder than words. He kept pushing hard anyway after he said that to Andrea Stella, so he really didn't give up :)

First post here ;)

It's a perfect opportunity to gloat and bash just to get even with "some" FA fans that have been kicking LH while he's been down,in every thread that bears his name but I'm better than that!

"I give up" is the frustration of a great driver being tired of the car period,something Lewis has showed for a while.Yes Mac has been much better but so what,not to win the title good.
These 2 aren't much different from e/o,they both believe they can win every GP and beat anyone out there, and today FA fans saw frustration get the better of him. Sad really,if I were a team owner with billions to spare I wouldn't have two other drivers on my team.For entertainment/pure racing value it'd be MAGIC every race!

:up:

#11088 faaaz

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 18:48

Not a huge Alonso fan, but you have to give the guy massive respect.

Its a pity that a driver of his calibre is not challenging for the world title. It would make for unbelievable viewing if he could :D

#11089 puxanando

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 18:57

Maybe lolonso should learn to beat his teammate earlier on track rather than needing the team to tell him to move over.


Maybe you should learn to write such a simple name as Alonso before you go to bash a driver?! :rolleyes:


#11090 Callisto

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 19:07

good race by alonso today :up:

#11091 PretentiousBread

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 19:13

I suspect behind Vettel, most people are going to rate JB as the second best driver of the year, but I was thinking just yesterday that Alonso would pip him to 2nd place for me. JB has had some individual great races and has been really consistent and impressive in his racecraft, but he just doesn't maximise his car like Alonso has this year. And considering Alonso has spent the majority of the season in the slower car, i'd give it to him.

#11092 Fontainebleau

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 19:16

Fountain, I've edited my post already.

Apologies, this forum moves too fast for me to keep up! Yes, it wasn't easy to get past Rosberg, even with DRS; De la Rosa and Gené were referring to the difference in top speed between the Ferrari and the Mercedes (in favour of the Mercedes) as an important factor :)


#11093 Ferrari2183

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 19:54

But that didn't stop you from comming here and bash. How pathetic.

I was going by the result and what I read which was Massa had prime strategy of the Ferrari's and yet still finished some distance behind Alonso...

I'm a tifosi first and foremost and it is time for Massa to go. He is just weak.

You, on the other hand, don't address the post. Instead you resort to personal attacks which is pathetic.

#11094 puxanando

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 19:54

Nice interview with Fernando

:up:

#11095 cardin

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 20:53

I was going by the result and what I read which was Massa had prime strategy of the Ferrari's and yet still finished some distance behind Alonso...

I'm a tifosi first and foremost and it is time for Massa to go. He is just weak.

You, on the other hand, don't address the post. Instead you resort to personal attacks which is pathetic.


I know, that's your mantra. It doesn't matter what happens in the race, that's your story and you're sticking to it. How sad.

#11096 fabr68

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 20:59

But that didn't stop you from comming here and bash. How pathetic.


Look who is talking.

#11097 Tifosi4ever

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 21:05

I was going by the result and what I read which was Massa had prime strategy of the Ferrari's and yet still finished some distance behind Alonso...

I'm a tifosi first and foremost and it is time for Massa to go. He is just weak.

You, on the other hand, don't address the post. Instead you resort to personal attacks which is pathetic.


I agree, and here is my post in the Massa thread regarding this.

I like Fellipe, and being a Ferrari driver, will support him. However, today he just held up his much faster team mate, and cost Ferrari a podium, possibly even a win. Why oh why does he hold Fernando up so much more than any other driver? If Lewis is about to pass, they crash, if anyone else is about to pass, he lets them, but if it is his team mate, he makes it as hard as possible.

Ferrari made a very bad decision today, though I can understand it. Let Fellipe race on the one hand, but on the other, they need to look at how much he is holding up his team mate. Fernando will not crash into his team mate, indeed he is one of the few who I can think of that hasn't, (please feel free to correct me). But Fellipe seems to want to hold up Fernando so much more than anyone else, and this is hurting Ferrari. I hate to say it, but I think the time has come to get rid of him, and replace him with either Perez or Bianchi.



#11098 cardin

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 21:12

Look who is talking.

At least I watch the races first.

#11099 as65p

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 21:16

Team strategy today was silly, but there's no denying the fact that Alonso has to take a portion of the blame for not qualifying in front of Massa.

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#11100 Ferrari2183

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 21:16

I know, that's your mantra. It doesn't matter what happens in the race, that's your story and you're sticking to it. How sad.

It is not just this race but nearly two seasons worth of races where he has been piss poor apart from a few races here and there where he really performs.

I am not saying he should have let Alonso through because I actually think he had the legs on Alonso earlier in the race but grand prix racing is not about being fast in one or two stints.

Answer this... Has Massa been good or poor? Fast or slow?

Edit: Again you direct your post at me instead of addressing the matter at hand which is Massa's performances in comparison to his teammate and whether he deserves the Ferrari seat...

Edited by Ferrari2183, 16 October 2011 - 21:19.