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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#11201 as65p

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 00:16

It's that what they call quoting out of context ? A hint for you; high is not allways absolute.


Funny you'd say that... :p

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#11202 cardin

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 00:37

I don't think the debate should be if he was faster or not than Massa. Alonso needs to stop acting like a prima donna. His teammate isn't HIS employee. He doesn't have to move over for him. He isn't even fighting for the championship anymore! If he's stuck behind his teammate he should either "use the best of his talent, we all know how big it is" or deal with it!!


You are quite right.

#11203 cardin

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 00:44

How do you make out he didn't "deal with it"? All he did was stating the obvious over the radio.

Anything but obvious.

#11204 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 00:47

It sounded to me that ALO knew the exact reason for running the new wing and had no problems with doing so. I believe his comments about being more aggressive & coming up with their own ideas was more in part to the season as a whole and not one particular part. Ferrari didn't innovate this season, and that's what he was speaking of. As he said, when you copy you're months behind the others. But the new wing was to get an understanding of a new philosophy. Guess we'll see in 2012.

#11205 IamFasterthanU

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 02:15

True, teams shouldn't just swap the positions but early in the race through strategy or race pace if it's clear that Alonso would give them a better result then nothing is wrong with it. Why risk drivers taking each other out???.

It's not like Alonso demands no. 1 status but does not deliver the goods (05,06 WDC as well as WCC also last year in arguably 2nd or 3rd fastest car he fought for the championship till the very last race)

Edited by IamFasterthanU, 24 October 2011 - 02:15.


#11206 Sakae

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 02:41

I am not sure if I ever been in this thread, but, there is too much time between races, and I thought I will ask something about him which is not entirely clear to me. I know that he has two WDCs on his belt, some heads (like Briatore) declared him the very best, his fans are crazy about him, but what really is it which puts him into such prominence?

I saw him fading, not driving well, and being almost petulant on occasions, yet, why he and Hamilton are always ahead of the others? I watch F1 for a while, but I do not get this one at all.



#11207 F1Newbie

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 03:04

I am not sure if I ever been in this thread, but, there is too much time between races, and I thought I will ask something about him which is not entirely clear to me. I know that he has two WDCs on his belt, some heads (like Briatore) declared him the very best, his fans are crazy about him, but what really is it which puts him into such prominence?

I saw him fading, not driving well, and being almost petulant on occasions, yet, why he and Hamilton are always ahead of the others? I watch F1 for a while, but I do not get this one at all.



Go watch Barcelona qualify and race start you will understand. I don't like Alonso self-centered personality but there's no doubt he's the best driver out there.

- mentaly strong

- very quick in qualify

- very quick in race pace

What else could you ask from a driver?


#11208 SpaMaster

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 03:21

Go watch Barcelona qualify and race start you will understand. I don't like Alonso self-centered personality but there's no doubt he's the best driver out there.
..

Really?? There is no doubt he is one of the best out there, but undoubtedly the best? That is stretching it a bit. If that had been the case, he would have absolutely ruled after 2006. Instead, he hasn't won a single title after 2006. He would not have been let go by McLaren, spent two years out of competitive seat, and then join a declining team.

Edited by SpaMaster, 24 October 2011 - 03:23.


#11209 kosmos

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 04:31

Wrong. On the second stint, after the safety car was in, Massa was faster 9 of the 13 laps. The gap to Alonso was more than 1.5 seconds for the last 5 laps of the stint and as high as 2 seconds.



Don't bother saying that when Alonso got clean air he did 3 personal fastest laps, two of them in 1:41 and coming from another two personal fastest laps faster than Massa. Don't bother saying that the last pit stop was faster for Massa.

Edited by kosmos, 24 October 2011 - 08:28.


#11210 bmardini

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 07:32

Don't bother saying that when Alonso got clean air he did 3 personal fastest laps, two of them in 1:41 and coming from another two personal fastest laps faster than Massa. Don't bother saying than the last pit stop was faster for Massa.


rofl. It constantly amuses me that, despite overwhelming evidence that Fernando was a LOT quicker than Massa, some still try to ascertain the negative. You are so right. Right after Massa pitted it looked like Fernando was driving a different car. Felipe may have outqualified Fernando, but I suspect that has a lot to do with set-up (quali focus).

#11211 fabr68

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 12:00

What's amazing is that you disregarded the fact that Ferrari screwd the timming of Massa's second stop. Actually scratch that, it's not amazing at all, it's completely predictable.


The timing of a pit stop is determined by how the driver wears the tires. Massa set his own pit stop. Still, amazing that with Alonso's pit stop being slower than Massa's and also with Alonso "giving up" he still was 10 seconds ahead of Massa. :rotfl:

#11212 as65p

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 12:14

Anything but obvious.


Then let's say he made a claim he subsequently proved, with his speed in the third stint. You can't deny that.

On 2nd thought I take that back, I'm sure you'll deny it somehow. :p But within reason - no.

#11213 KirilVarbanov

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 12:35

rofl. It constantly amuses me that, despite overwhelming evidence that Fernando was a LOT quicker than Massa, some still try to ascertain the negative. You are so right. Right after Massa pitted it looked like Fernando was driving a different car. Felipe may have outqualified Fernando, but I suspect that has a lot to do with set-up (quali focus).

The Massa vs. Alonso argument shouldn't really exists - just look at their achievements this year, last year, and actually, any other year.
Don't forget that Alonso was also running an experimental front wing, which is detrimental to performance.

#11214 Ferrari2183

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 12:52

The timing of a pit stop is determined by how the driver wears the tires. Massa set his own pit stop. Still, amazing that with Alonso's pit stop being slower than Massa's and also with Alonso "giving up" he still was 10 seconds ahead of Massa. :rotfl:

There was nothing wrong with the timing of Massa's stop... Ferrari were reacting to Webber and Hamilton's stops. Had Ferrari left him out those same Massa apologists would be all over the board saying Ferrari left him out to dry while those ahead were on fresh rubber.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

#11215 currupipi

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 13:57

Really?? There is no doubt he is one of the best out there, but undoubtedly the best? That is stretching it a bit. If that had been the case, he would have absolutely ruled after 2006. Instead, he hasn't won a single title after 2006. He would not have been let go by McLaren, spent two years out of competitive seat, and then join a declining team.


yeah life sucks , he could be driving for perky jerky


#11216 SCUDmissile

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 14:08

yeah life sucks , he could be driving for perky jerky

:lol: WATER!!

#11217 Jordana

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 14:16

yeah life sucks , he could be driving for perky jerky



Perky Jerky? No way.... Central Lechera Asturiana would be the one! :rotfl:

#11218 walkindude

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 14:41

yeah life sucks , he could be driving for perky jerky

Or his fans could be creaming their pants at rumors of him joining williams

#11219 Jordana

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 14:51

Or his fans could be creaming their pants at rumors of him joining williams


Achtung... Off topic...

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#11220 currupipi

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 16:33

Perky Jerky? No way.... Central Lechera Asturiana would be the one! :rotfl:


or Fabada Litoral :rotfl:


#11221 Jordana

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 16:45

or Fabada Litoral :rotfl:


Or both of them... And La Sexta should hire "la Abuela de la Fabada" to help Lobato broadcast the races... :rotfl:



#11222 currupipi

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 17:12

Or both of them... And La Sexta should hire "la Abuela de la Fabada" to help Lobato broadcast the races... :rotfl:


:rotfl:


#11223 puxanando

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 17:38

:rolleyes: Seems all threads are holy, but this one really is becoming rubish.....

#11224 currupipi

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 18:41

:rolleyes: Seems all threads are holy, but this one really is becoming rubish.....


relax a little , nothing wrong with some light humor

#11225 puxanando

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 20:23

.......with some light humor



:p :drunk: Then I will go to Kimi...Schumi...Vettel-thread and put some light humor IN also!


#11226 Panktej

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 20:38

Seriously, we have to discuss who's faster between Alonso and Massa?

Alonso 212 : 98 Massa (with the same car)

Even a kid could identify where is the problem.

Ferrari being 3rd quickest car on the grid and yet someone is ahead of Webber and Lewis, speaks volume...


#11227 Watkins74

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 20:47

:p :drunk: Then I will go to Kimi...Schumi...Vettel-thread and put some light humor IN also!

You do it in the Kimi thread. Practice what you preach.

#11228 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 20:50

It seems Alonso is not making any new fans over at F1 fanatic: Alonso said he was “much quicker” than Massa in Korea

Previously unheard team radio from the Korean grand Prix reveals Fernando Alonso told Ferrari “I am much quicker than Felipe [Massa]” during the race.

That he said this is no great surprise, but it is interesting for two reasons. First, he used the exact same words when urging Ferrari to use team orders to make Massa pull over for him in Hockenheim last year.

Second, it flatly contradicts his remarks to the BBC’s Lee McKenzie immediately after the Korean race. Alonso said: “No, I was not much quicker at that time [...] I was not much quicker at that time of the race. I was only quick in the last stint with the last set of tyres.”



#11229 prty

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 20:59

It seems Alonso is not making any new fans over at F1 fanatic: Alonso said he was “much quicker” than Massa in Korea


Oh no! :cry:

:lol:

#11230 Watkins74

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 21:03

It seems Alonso is not making any new fans over at F1 fanatic: Alonso said he was “much quicker” than Massa in Korea

I bet he is devastated.

#11231 fabr68

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 21:09

It seems Alonso is not making any new fans over at F1 fanatic: Alonso said he was “much quicker” than Massa in Korea


I don't think there was any new fans to be made in that site anyway.

OMG. Alonso saying that he is faster than Massa!!!

:eek:

Shame on him for stating the obvious.
:rolleyes:

Edited by fabr68, 24 October 2011 - 21:09.


#11232 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 21:30

I don't think there was any new fans to be made in that site anyway.

OMG. Alonso saying that he is faster than Massa!!!

:eek:

Shame on him for stating the obvious.
:rolleyes:

I dont think that was the point of the article. It pointed out that Alonso said one thing to the team during the race. And said "no, I wasnt faster.." to the press afterwards. No matter how you look at it, that is an untrue statement since only one of them can be correct. Im sure that was the point they were making.

#11233 Aieljose

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 21:30

It seems Alonso is not making any new fans over at F1 fanatic: Alonso said he was “much quicker” than Massa in Korea

So predictable... :yawnface:

#11234 cardin

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 21:36

The timing of a pit stop is determined by how the driver wears the tires. Massa set his own pit stop. Still, amazing that with Alonso's pit stop being slower than Massa's and also with Alonso "giving up" he still was 10 seconds ahead of Massa. :rotfl:


To properly enjoy a F1 race you should be able to deal with more than one set of data and more than one fact at the same time. I'm not sure you can do that. Besides ignoring the fact that Massa lost a lot of time after the second pitstop, by having to overtake a couple of slower cars, you also are ignoring the fact that Alonso had to stop immediately after the checkered flag while Massa had enough fuel for the cool down lap. What does that tell you ? Take your time and ponder about it. Another strange fact; Massa's total pitstop time was 44.722 seconds while Alonso's was 41.617. I hope you can digest all this instead of repeating the final gap between them. In any case, I'm not holding my breath expecting you to do that.

#11235 AlanWake

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 22:03

Consirering that Felipe was on a better strategy than Fernando in the race and that Fernando was handicapped by the new FW which was not well suited for the current car at all, it is really a shame for Felipe that he didn't beat Fernando.

Anyway, I'm just imagining if Felipe was using the new 2012 FW instead of Fernando... :D
I have no doubt that there would be dozens of Massa Fans (and also Alonso Haters) saying that Felipe's performance was handicapped by the new FW and that he was used as a guinea pig for Fernando and Ferrari....and so and on and on… ;)

#11236 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 22:11

If you are done with your downplaying, then there is actually some interesting stuff emerging from the comments in that post.

Emanuele Pirro was at the Gold Coast this weekend and guest commentated the Touring Car Masters support race. He talked about his experience as a F1 guest steward.

He mentioned how some drivers act like immature kids in the stewards room, making up excuses and the like. He said that one of the worst was a ‘multi world champion’.

Now the race he was stewarding was Sepang 2011. I know Schumacher wasn’t in the stewards room after the race, and Vettel wasn’t a double world champion then, that leaves…

You can hear his comments in this clip from 4:00 and on:
If you remember Sepang, that was when Lewis and Fernando was summoned due to their coming together on track.

#11237 ghost

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 22:22

It seems Alonso is not making any new fans over at F1 fanatic: Alonso said he was “much quicker” than Massa in Korea


Isn't 0.6 per lap not faster enough for u? He just stated obvious. :wave:

#11238 as65p

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 22:28

To properly enjoy a F1 race you should be able to deal with more than one set of data and more than one fact at the same time. I'm not sure you can do that. Besides ignoring the fact that Massa lost a lot of time after the second pitstop, by having to overtake a couple of slower cars, you also are ignoring the fact that Alonso had to stop immediately after the checkered flag while Massa had enough fuel for the cool down lap. What does that tell you ? Take your time and ponder about it. Another strange fact; Massa's total pitstop time was 44.722 seconds while Alonso's was 41.617. I hope you can digest all this instead of repeating the final gap between them. In any case, I'm not holding my breath expecting you to do that.


The 3 sec slower stop for Massa happened before the SC. Shame your enjoyment of F1 is screwed by missing out such little bits of data... :)

Now can you figure why it makes "total pitstop time" irrelevant? Shall I hold my breath while you try? :p

#11239 AlanWake

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 22:30

If you are done with your downplaying, then there is actually some interesting stuff emerging from the comments in that post.


You can hear his comments in this clip from 4:00 and on:
If you remember Sepang, that was when Lewis and Fernando was summoned due to their coming together on track.


I think Fernando has every right to complain (if he really did it) when someone is doing illegal manouvres. He is no different to the rest, in that sense.

Better complaining about something obvious that falsely complaining to the stewards that another driver "blocked" you in Q3  ;)

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#11240 ForeverF1

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 22:30

Shall I hold my breath while you try? :p


Please do.  ;) :lol:

#11241 Ferrari2183

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 22:32

To properly enjoy a F1 race you should be able to deal with more than one set of data and more than one fact at the same time. I'm not sure you can do that. Besides ignoring the fact that Massa lost a lot of time after the second pitstop, by having to overtake a couple of slower cars, you also are ignoring the fact that Alonso had to stop immediately after the checkered flag while Massa had enough fuel for the cool down lap. What does that tell you ? Take your time and ponder about it. Another strange fact; Massa's total pitstop time was 44.722 seconds while Alonso's was 41.617. I hope you can digest all this instead of repeating the final gap between them. In any case, I'm not holding my breath expecting you to do that.

Who was Massa racing? Those couple of slower cars or Button and Webber? Ferrari had to react or risk losing more ground to those ahead on fresh tyres.

About the slow pit stops... I think pit lane traffic is responsible for that or did you want an unsafe release for Massa and a subsequent drive through as to moan some more about Ferrari's treatment of Massa. And you really shouldn't be moaning because the 2.6 seconds Massa lost to Alonso during that first round of pit stops would barely have been enough to release him ahead of Rosberg in any event. Furthermore that time which you claim as critical was negated by the safety car although without the possible track position.

#11242 showtime

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 22:32

It seems Alonso is not making any new fans over at F1 fanatic: Alonso said he was “much quicker” than Massa in Korea


I don't think he had any fans there before, we all know that website preferences.

#11243 as65p

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 22:44

Please do. ;) :lol:


Posted Image

mpfff! :up:  ;)

#11244 Fontainebleau

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 23:05

If you are done with your downplaying, then there is actually some interesting stuff emerging from the comments in that post.


You can hear his comments in this clip from 4:00 and on:
If you remember Sepang, that was when Lewis and Fernando was summoned due to their coming together on track.

I have heard the comments; somehow I am missing when he says that "one of the worst is a multi-world champion". Actually, I don't think he ever says such a thing, and in the video you quoted he speaks about "multi-world champions" in plural. But hey, never lat facts interfere in a good bashing  ;)

#11245 F1Newbie

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 23:11

I don't think there was any new fans to be made in that site anyway.

OMG. Alonso saying that he is faster than Massa!!!

:eek:

Shame on him for stating the obvious.
:rolleyes:


Shame on him, he wanted Ferrari to make Massa move over for him just like he did last year.

#11246 PoleMan

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 23:25

I dont think that was the point of the article. It pointed out that Alonso said one thing to the team during the race. And said "no, I wasnt faster.." to the press afterwards. No matter how you look at it, that is an untrue statement since only one of them can be correct. Im sure that was the point they were making.

I promised myself I would not get into any slagging matches on here out of respect for the two racing heroes who just lost their lives in pursuit of their dreams (And I won't!), but I do want to respond with a few questions to Desdirodeabike.

On what lap did Alonso make his statement about being much faster than Felipe? Do you know? In his post-race statement he says Felipe was not holding him up "at that point." Do we know which "point" during the race he was talking about? My assumption would be the first stint when both were on the SuperSoft tires and Felipe was always comfortably ahead, while Alonso was locking up his tires at every other corner. On the Second Stint Alonso WAS clearly faster as he proved by outpacing Felipe's best pace up to "that point" while on severely worn tyres. He was also faster after Felipe switched to new tires! By the third stint he came out just ahead of Felipe, then just drove away, ending up 10 seconds down the road, while reeling in an almost equal amount of time to the 3 cars in front of him. One should always be careful about calling people deceitful (or other insulting names!), especially if one doesn't have the critical information necessary to make such claims.

Edited by PoleMan, 24 October 2011 - 23:28.


#11247 cilurnum

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 23:33

It seems Alonso is not making any new fans over at F1 fanatic: Alonso said he was “much quicker” than Massa in Korea

He should try the same tactic on other drivers besides Massa. :rolleyes:

He's just making a bit of a rod for his own back.

#11248 cardin

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 23:44

The 3 sec slower stop for Massa happened before the SC. Shame your enjoyment of F1 is screwed by missing out such little bits of data... :)

Now can you figure why it makes "total pitstop time" irrelevant? Shall I hold my breath while you try? :p


You fell flat, no surprises there. Here's what i said; 'To properly enjoy a F1 race you should be able to deal with more than one set of data and more than one fact at the same time. ' It looks like you can't do that either. Go watch the race again and tell me what would have happened if he hadn't lost that 4+ seconds in the first stop. The guy was arguing that although Alonso lost a second in his second stop he came out on top. That's why "total pitstop time" is relavante in the sense that Massa lost a lot more track position and therefore time with his 3+ seconds slower pits. Actually, this slower total pitstop times was a lot more costly to Massa than the 3 seconds imply. I know it's complicated and you have to check the data and see what happened at the track. I also know, by your thousands of posts, that you don't like to discuss the races in detail but I sincerelly Ihope I didn't confuse you to much. You can breath now, or not.

Edited by cardin, 24 October 2011 - 23:44.


#11249 engel

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 23:56

I think pit lane traffic is responsible for that or did you want an unsafe release for Massa and a subsequent drive through as to moan some more about Ferrari's treatment of Massa.


No traffic in the pitlane when Massa was released, it was just a 6.4 second pitstop. And yeah in terms of track position the pitstop did hurt Massa, it put him behind Button and Rosberg. And no it's not mistreatment, I would guess some wheel got stuck or something, but it's definitely unlucky

#11250 cardin

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 23:57

Please do.;) :lol:

Which is which ? The way I see it, you either don't like the guy or you think there's no risk in him holding his breath. :)

Edited by cardin, 25 October 2011 - 00:09.