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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#11251 cardin

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 00:08

Who was Massa racing? Those couple of slower cars or Button and Webber? Ferrari had to react or risk losing more ground to those ahead on fresh tyres.

About the slow pit stops... I think pit lane traffic is responsible for that or did you want an unsafe release for Massa and a subsequent drive through as to moan some more about Ferrari's treatment of Massa. And you really shouldn't be moaning because the 2.6 seconds Massa lost to Alonso during that first round of pit stops would barely have been enough to release him ahead of Rosberg in any event. Furthermore that time which you claim as critical was negated by the safety car although without the possible track position.


First, I'm not moaning, I'm pointing to a fact, which was; Massa's pistops were slower(a lot) than Alonso's. Second, it was more than 2.6 seconds and a regular piststot would have been enough to put him in front of Rosberg. I'm not saying it was on purpose but screw up Ferrari did. It hapens a lot more frequently with Massa, just saying.

Edited by cardin, 25 October 2011 - 00:29.


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#11252 AyrtonSauna

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 00:37

:)

Shame on him, he wanted Ferrari to make Massa move over for him just like he did last year.

So you are basically saying that if you were a team boss,you would not employ legal team orders despite the great possibility of your faster driver reaching the podium(Alonso) that is held up by your slower driver (Massa).That's what Ferrari did! That Myth is Busted that Alonso always receives the best treatment at his command at Ferrari.

The Ferrari decision to allow Massa to keep his position in front of the faster Alonso was an investment by Ferrari in bringing out even more driving potential from their star driver Alonso than he already has.


#11253 SpaMaster

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 01:45

yeah life sucks , he could be driving for perky jerky

I take it that you agree with everything else. Good. As long as we are in agreement that he is not the absolute best.. because his career-path for the past 5 years definitely does not suggest that.

As for the declining team part: Fortunately it does not need subjective arguments. The results speak for themselves.

Edited by SpaMaster, 25 October 2011 - 02:44.


#11254 Aieljose

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 02:59

I take it that you agree with everything else. Good. As long as we are in agreement that he is not the absolute best, because his career-path for the past 5 years definitely does not suggest that..

As for the declining team part: Fortunately it does not need subjective arguments. The results speak for themselves.

Care to explain why most critics, team bosses and drivers think the exact opposite then? Alonso was voted the best driver in 2010 by both team bosses and drivers. Even vettel once called Alonso "complete"
Alonso the best? What a silly idea! :drunk: :stoned:

#11255 SpaMaster

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 03:20

Care to explain why most critics, team bosses and drivers think the exact opposite then? Alonso was voted the best driver in 2010 by both team bosses and drivers. Even vettel once called Alonso "complete"
Alonso the best? What a silly idea! :drunk: :stoned:

Not sure what critics and bosses you are talking about. McLaren and Red Bull certainly did not think so. It is one thing to say Alonso is complete, and another thing to say 'undoubtedly the most complete'. Is Alonso one of the best? Most definitely. Is he undoubtedly the best? No. That's what I said in my original post. There is a difference between making a case for someone being the best, and calling someone 'undoubtedly the best'.

#11256 as65p

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 05:19

You fell flat, no surprises there. Here's what i said; 'To properly enjoy a F1 race you should be able to deal with more than one set of data and more than one fact at the same time. ' It looks like you can't do that either. Go watch the race again and tell me what would have happened if he hadn't lost that 4+ seconds in the first stop.


What falls flat is primarily your numbers. Massa's first stop time (whole time in the pitlane) was 2.66 secs slower than Alonso and 3.55 secs slower than Rosbergs. He came out over 3 secs behind Rosberg, so even with a stop as fast as Alonsos, he would likely have fallen behind, although it would have been closer. No idea what dark place you pulled the 4+ seconds from...

The guy was arguing that although Alonso lost a second in his second stop he came out on top. That's why "total pitstop time" is relavante in the sense that Massa lost a lot more track position and therefore time with his 3+ seconds slower pits.


Ah, now it's magically reduced to 3+ seconds. :drunk: Still wrong in relation to Alonso, but at least you're getting there! :p

Actually, this slower total pitstop times was a lot more costly to Massa than the 3 seconds imply. I know it's complicated and you have to check the data and see what happened at the track. I also know, by your thousands of posts, that you don't like to discuss the races in detail but I sincerelly Ihope I didn't confuse you to much. You can breath now, or not.


Looks like you shouldn't try either, at least not until you learned to get your numbers right. :wave:

#11257 nbhb

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 05:58

I dont think that was the point of the article. It pointed out that Alonso said one thing to the team during the race. And said "no, I wasnt faster.." to the press afterwards. No matter how you look at it, that is an untrue statement since only one of them can be correct. Im sure that was the point they were making.


So you didn't know that Alonso is very clever to play politics? Hmmm... Get use it...

#11258 hero

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 06:03

Depends when he said he was faster. I think he said it when Felipe was stuck behind Rosberg and Alonso was all over both of them. Once in clean air Massa looked faster for most of that stint and pulled away.

#11259 nbhb

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 06:04

To properly enjoy a F1 race you should be able to deal with more than one set of data and more than one fact at the same time. I'm not sure you can do that. Besides ignoring the fact that Massa lost a lot of time after the second pitstop, by having to overtake a couple of slower cars, you also are ignoring the fact that Alonso had to stop immediately after the checkered flag while Massa had enough fuel for the cool down lap. What does that tell you ? Take your time and ponder about it. Another strange fact; Massa's total pitstop time was 44.722 seconds while Alonso's was 41.617. I hope you can digest all this instead of repeating the final gap between them. In any case, I'm not holding my breath expecting you to do that.


That Massa didn't bother to try more than 6th, therefore showing a lot of competitive spirit or that he was slower than Fernando. Which one it suit your agenda better?

BTW, after his second pit stop and after he got rid of the traffic, Massa had a clean lap on new tyres, but was slower than Alonso on worn tyres. What does this means to you?

Edited by nbhb, 25 October 2011 - 06:55.


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#11260 Ferrari2183

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 06:10

No traffic in the pitlane when Massa was released, it was just a 6.4 second pitstop. And yeah in terms of track position the pitstop did hurt Massa, it put him behind Button and Rosberg. And no it's not mistreatment, I would guess some wheel got stuck or something, but it's definitely unlucky

I'm pretty sure Massa was held in the box because Schumacher was driving by.

#11261 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 06:21

So you didn't know that Alonso is very clever to play politics? Hmmm... Get use it...

So what he said was untrue you say? Well, that is not a redeeming feature - even if it was to play politics. And I would not say it was clever when he knows that there is a chance that the radio feed can go public.
We also have a former F1 driver saying that he was behaving like a little kid in the stewards office. I agree that he is very good at playing the press and his fans like a fiddle. But ever so often things like this emerges that show his true colors. And they are immediately downplayed, dismissed and excused by his fans. I gotta hand it to the guy. He really got you by the balls  ;)

#11262 Ferrari2183

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 06:23

First, I'm not moaning, I'm pointing to a fact, which was; Massa's pistops were slower(a lot) than Alonso's. Second, it was more than 2.6 seconds and a regular piststot would have been enough to put him in front of Rosberg. I'm not saying it was on purpose but screw up Ferrari did. It hapens a lot more frequently with Massa, just saying.

I agree that Massa has often had the worst of the strategy and that the majority pit crew errors seem to happen to him, but I didn't witness anything of the sort in Korea.

He was just unlucky during the first stop and during the second stop I fail to see how Ferrari could have done anything different with Massa because he would have lost time to those ahead of him on fresh rubber in any event. They just had to react.

Alonso on the other hand had an absolute shocker of in lap for his first stop.

I still maintain that if Ferrari want to be malicious as far as Massa was concerned they would not have given him the preferred strategy in the first place.

#11263 nbhb

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 07:50

So what he said was untrue you say? Well, that is not a redeeming feature - even if it was to play politics. And I would not say it was clever when he knows that there is a chance that the radio feed can go public.
We also have a former F1 driver saying that he was behaving like a little kid in the stewards office. I agree that he is very good at playing the press and his fans like a fiddle. But ever so often things like this emerges that show his true colors. And they are immediately downplayed, dismissed and excused by his fans. I gotta hand it to the guy. He really got you by the balls ;)


When he spoke with BBC he was reffered to the first stint and he said nothing about the second stint. In the race edit, his radio message is after the SC, after they overtook Rosberg, so in the second stint . So how did he lie or was not very clever in the interview?

Secondly, are you trust in a man, who declare in press things that must remains within closed doors? Excuse me, but this things must remain private, even if you dislike a man as it is the case with this ex driver and Alonso.

You think we don't know that Alonso play politics, "he is a pain in the ass", he sees his own interest, he is doing almost everything to gather the team behind him, he wants to protect the image of his teammate in the press just for his own good, etc. Well that is Formula1, but you maybe don't know this. It appears that he understood this, when others didn't and they race in I don't know what rallies and trees ... And maybe that's why we are love him, because the guy is brilliant inside and outside the track.

Edited by nbhb, 25 October 2011 - 07:53.


#11264 cardin

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 08:03

Then let's say he made a claim he subsequently proved, with his speed in the third stint. You can't deny that.

On 2nd thought I take that back, I'm sure you'll deny it somehow. :p But within reason - no.


How could I have missed this pearl of logic. You are saying that when he called for team orders he was not actually faster but he proved it later in the race. Amazing. :rotfl: :rotfl:

What falls flat is primarily your numbers. Massa's first stop time (whole time in the pitlane) was 2.66 secs slower than Alonso and 3.55 secs slower than Rosbergs. He came out over 3 secs behind Rosberg, so even with a stop as fast as Alonsos, he would likely have fallen behind, although it would have been closer. No idea what dark place you pulled the 4+ seconds from...

This is getting tedious. You seem to

Ah, now it's magically reduced to 3+ seconds. :drunk: Still wrong in relation to Alonso, but at least you're getting there! :p



Looks like you shouldn't try either, at least not until you learned to get your numbers right. :wave:


This is getting tedious. You are confusing pitstop time with total pit lane time. The gap to Rosberg on the second stint was never bigger than 2.567 seconds. Now do the math. Never mind, I'll do it for you.Even considering total pitlane time Massa would have come on top.

Edited by cardin, 25 October 2011 - 08:04.


#11265 cardin

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 08:16

That Massa didn't bother to try more than 6th, therefore showing a lot of competitive spirit or that he was slower than Fernando. Which one it suit your agenda better?


That's exactly how it works. Massa probably radioed the pit and told them he wasn't going to bother and would settle for 6th.

BTW, after his second pit stop and after he got rid of the traffic, Massa had a clean lap on new tyres, but was slower than Alonso on worn tyres. What does this means to you?

You are wrong there but, and I hope you understand, I can't be bothered anymore.

#11266 cardin

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 08:25

I agree that Massa has often had the worst of the strategy and that the majority pit crew errors seem to happen to him, but I didn't witness anything of the sort in Korea.

He was just unlucky during the first stop and during the second stop I fail to see how Ferrari could have done anything different with Massa because he would have lost time to those ahead of him on fresh rubber in any event. They just had to react.

Alonso on the other hand had an absolute shocker of in lap for his first stop.

I still maintain that if Ferrari want to be malicious as far as Massa was concerned they would not have given him the preferred strategy in the first place.

What are you talking about ? Alonso's in lap was 2 seconds slower than Felipe's.
If there wasn't anything malicious going on Massa's second stop the end result was the same.

#11267 nbhb

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 08:39

That's exactly how it works. Massa probably radioed the pit and told them he wasn't going to bother and would settle for 6th.

But why Massa "probably" did this? Would have been nice to see a "I give up" from Massa after he saw the back of Alonso, is it? What a poor race edit this guys did. :lol:

You are wrong there but, and I hope you understand, I can't be bothered anymore.


You know I'm not wrong and BTW, it's no shame, cause Alonso was faster than McLaren and RBR also, except for Vettel. His worn tyres were in good shape is it? I wonder why, but I won't bother you, cause I think you may know the answer. :p

Edited by nbhb, 25 October 2011 - 08:41.


#11268 YellowHelmet

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 08:40

I dont think that was the point of the article. It pointed out that Alonso said one thing to the team during the race. And said "no, I wasnt faster.." to the press afterwards. No matter how you look at it, that is an untrue statement since only one of them can be correct. Im sure that was the point they were making.

it is not.
he was faster at some points of the race and not during the whole race, and that is also what he said.


#11269 Jordana

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 08:41

relax a little , nothing wrong with some light humor


Glad to see somebody like you with a great and healthy sense of humor... Keep it up! :p

#11270 YellowHelmet

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 08:43

Shame on him, he wanted Ferrari to make Massa move over for him just like he did last year.

why should he be ashamed, for wanting to achieve more than what ferrari achieved at the end of that race :drunk:
shame on you for not wanting a driver to achieve more for a team, as it was possible without it. :down:

#11271 YellowHelmet

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 08:45

:) So you are basically saying that if you were a team boss,you would not employ legal team orders despite the great possibility of your faster driver reaching the podium(Alonso) that is held up by your slower driver (Massa).That's what Ferrari did! That Myth is Busted that Alonso always receives the best treatment at his command at Ferrari.

The Ferrari decision to allow Massa to keep his position in front of the faster Alonso was an investment by Ferrari in bringing out even more driving potential from their star driver Alonso than he already has.

:up:


#11272 YellowHelmet

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 08:47

When he spoke with BBC he was reffered to the first stint and he said nothing about the second stint. In the race edit, his radio message is after the SC, after they overtook Rosberg, so in the second stint . So how did he lie or was not very clever in the interview?

Secondly, are you trust in a man, who declare in press things that must remains within closed doors? Excuse me, but this things must remain private, even if you dislike a man as it is the case with this ex driver and Alonso.

You think we don't know that Alonso play politics, "he is a pain in the ass", he sees his own interest, he is doing almost everything to gather the team behind him, he wants to protect the image of his teammate in the press just for his own good, etc. Well that is Formula1, but you maybe don't know this. It appears that he understood this, when others didn't and they race in I don't know what rallies and trees ... And maybe that's why we are love him, because the guy is brilliant inside and outside the track.

well said :up:

#11273 YellowHelmet

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 08:57

What are you talking about ? Alonso's in lap was 2 seconds slower than Felipe's.
If there wasn't anything malicious going on Massa's second stop the end result was the same.

first read the facts and than try to argue,

otherwise you are just again trolling (which is forbidden).

second stop times
massa 21:080
alonso 20:639


there was nothing malicious going on, alonso was just perfroming at his best with worn out tyres at that time :up:
go to this page click on korea, than click on head to head, choose alonso and massa and compare the laps 34 to 38.
(massas in lap was faster than alonsos, but alonsos outlap was on vettels level, and massas on hamiltons level! plus alonso driving like hell in the laps between)

#11274 Ferrari2183

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 09:30

What are you talking about ? Alonso's in lap was 2 seconds slower than Felipe's.
If there wasn't anything malicious going on Massa's second stop the end result was the same.

That is exactly what I'm saying because Alonso was touring around on tyres that had fallen off a cliff because they rightfully gave Massa the preferred strategy and yet you are complaining about the 2.6 seconds Massa lost due to no fault of the team.

Regarding the second stop... So what you are telling me is that Ferrari should have kept Massa out because he wasn't racing Button and Webber and his sole intention was to stay ahead of Alonso. In any event you make it sound like they released Massa in a queue of cars when in fact it was just the one Force India which he disposed of relatively quickly.

Also, what the other poster said about Alonso being faster than Massa while on old tyres is true. On lap 36 Alonso set a lap faster than all the front runners except Vettel (whom were all on fresh tyres). This lap was about a second quicker than what Massa could manage. Alonso's lap 35 was just about on par with the other front runners as well.

This all points to Alonso being faster than Massa during that stage of the race and my belief is had it not been for Rosberg, Alonso would have have gotten by Massa on his own.

Edited by Ferrari2183, 25 October 2011 - 09:34.


#11275 engel

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 09:50

I'm pretty sure Massa was held in the box because Schumacher was driving by.


nope

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#11276 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 10:19

So what he said was untrue you say? Well, that is not a redeeming feature - even if it was to play politics. And I would not say it was clever when he knows that there is a chance that the radio feed can go public.
We also have a former F1 driver saying that he was behaving like a little kid in the stewards office. I agree that he is very good at playing the press and his fans like a fiddle. But ever so often things like this emerges that show his true colors. And they are immediately downplayed, dismissed and excused by his fans. I gotta hand it to the guy. He really got you by the balls ;)


No we don't. Please actually listen to the audio.


#11277 Ferrari2183

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 10:43

nope

I think you will find that they held Massa in the box because Schumacher was approaching for his stop. In that pic you can see the Mercedes mechanics busy with Schumacher's car.

#11278 F1Newbie

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 12:44

:) So you are basically saying that if you were a team boss,you would not employ legal team orders despite the great possibility of your faster driver reaching the podium(Alonso) that is held up by your slower driver (Massa).That's what Ferrari did! That Myth is Busted that Alonso always receives the best treatment at his command at Ferrari.

The Ferrari decision to allow Massa to keep his position in front of the faster Alonso was an investment by Ferrari in bringing out even more driving potential from their star driver Alonso than he already has.


Like Martin B. said , team order might be legal that doesn't make it fair. Alonso is no longer fighting for the championship, why would Ferrari gives him preference over Massa? Now they are both fighting for wins.


#11279 as65p

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 12:52

Like Martin B. said , team order might be legal that doesn't make it fair. Alonso is no longer fighting for the championship, why would Ferrari gives him preference over Massa? Now they are both fighting for wins.


You really need to ask why, put against 4 faster cars, Ferrari might think their outsider chance of a win lays with Alonso and not Massa? You really need to ask that? :lol:

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#11280 fabr68

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 12:54

Like Martin B. said , team order might be legal that doesn't make it fair. Alonso is no longer fighting for the championship, why would Ferrari gives him preference over Massa? Now they are both fighting for wins.


Ferrari's dream is that both drivers would be fighting for wins. Reality is one Ferrari driver fights for Podiums, the other for 5th place.

#11281 F1Newbie

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 13:03

You really need to ask why, put against 4 faster cars, Ferrari might think their outsider chance of a win lays with Alonso and not Massa? You really need to ask that? :lol:



he should have Used the best of your talent. We know how big it is :rotfl: ... he can't pretend his teammate to move over for him every time he's stuck behind him. And it gave him a bad reputation.


#11282 as65p

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 13:09

How could I have missed this pearl of logic. You are saying that when he called for team orders he was not actually faster but he proved it later in the race. Amazing. :rotfl: :rotfl:


Neither did I say the bolded, nor is there anything amazing to the story, in fact it's all quite trivial for full-witted brains. Alonso claimed he could drive faster and once Massa was out of the way he proved just that. It doesn't get any simpler, I'm afraid.

This is getting tedious. You are confusing pitstop time with total pit lane time. The gap to Rosberg on the second stint was never bigger than 2.567 seconds. Now do the math. Never mind, I'll do it for you.Even considering total pitlane time Massa would have come on top.


Well, I'll explain it to you: total pit lane time includes pit stop time, making it a bit more relevant because of that. Not to speak of it being accurately measured, contrary to pitstop time. Consider this just another bit of data to help you understand F1 racing one day! :D

And no, it's by no means certain Massa would have come out ahead of Rosberg with a stop as fast as Alonsos. It would have been closer, that's all one can say with certainty. To claim any more than that, one would have to know the snapshot time difference between the two at the moment Massa released the speed limiter at the end of the pit lane.

#11283 T-Mobile

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 13:12

You can say what you want about being fair (whatever fair means), but I have no problem with Alonso letting the team know that he is indeed faster than Felipe. He was, he knew it, and thought he could finish better if he was ahead of Massa.

The way I see it, a driver should do exactly this and let the team handle the tough decisions. If Ferrari do or don't let Alonso pass, it is on them. I have no problem at all with a driver wanting every advantage possible. Perhaps an unfair advantage? Ever heard of that?

Isn't that what racing drivers are supposed to do? Maximize their results? Would you really want Alonso to become complacent when he knows he is faster than Massa?

#11284 as65p

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 13:16

he should have Used the best of your talent. We know how big it is :rotfl: ... he can't pretend his teammate to move over for him every time he's stuck behind him. And it gave him a bad reputation.


I'm flattered, but really I don't think the best of my talent would help Alonso much.  ;)

I fully agree however, that Alonso must take care himself for being in front of Massa, preferably by outqualifying him. Especially considering how Massa has shown time and again that blocking Alonso is his main goal by some margin at this stage of his career, soemtimes I wonder if he's even aware that there are other teams he should race. Okay, he likes to trade some paint with Hamilton now and then, but other than that...

#11285 currupipi

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 13:42

I take it that you agree with everything else. Good. As long as we are in agreement that he is not the absolute best.. because his career-path for the past 5 years definitely does not suggest that.

As for the declining team part: Fortunately it does not need subjective arguments. The results speak for themselves.


cant really argue with you, it must suck knowing you are not the absolute best and have to drive a ferrari for work


#11286 Jordana

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 14:15

You can say what you want about being fair (whatever fair means), but I have no problem with Alonso letting the team know that he is indeed faster than Felipe. He was, he knew it, and thought he could finish better if he was ahead of Massa.

The way I see it, a driver should do exactly this and let the team handle the tough decisions. If Ferrari do or don't let Alonso pass, it is on them. I have no problem at all with a driver wanting every advantage possible. Perhaps an unfair advantage? Ever heard of that?

Isn't that what racing drivers are supposed to do? Maximize their results? Would you really want Alonso to become complacent when he knows he is faster than Massa?



So if Alonso is the one who has to tell the team he is faster than Massa... Just one little question... What kind of data does the tema have from the computers and the telemetries? I don't understand anything...



#11287 Jordana

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 14:23

cant really argue with you, it must suck knowing you are not the absolute best and have to drive a ferrari for work



I am not that sure if Alonso & Massa are driving for the Cavallino Team anymore... It looks much more like the Puledro Team... ;)

And talking about animals... The horse has become old fashioned, now it's time for the bull... :p

Edited by Jordana, 25 October 2011 - 14:24.


#11288 Kubiccia

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 14:28

Guys, any member here is from Spain???

I'm looking forward to a better quality of this video:


Can someone help me, please?

#11289 Jordana

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 14:40

Guys, any member here is from Spain???

I'm looking forward to a better quality of this video:


Can someone help me, please?



I don't thinik this is much different that the one you have but I tried...

http://www.lasexta.c...n_suzuka/494463




#11290 kosmos

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 14:40

Fernando will do tomorrow something for UNICEF. Machine translation from french.

Fernando Alonso meanwhile fulfill its role as a UNICEF ambassador Thursday morning by visiting a pediatric hospital in New Delhi where he will bring gifts for hospitalized children to celebrate "Diwali", more commonly known as the "Feast of light, "one of the most important religious events in India. The Ferrari driver would like to educate the public on a subject as delicate as India and to promote vaccination against poliomyelitis:

"Who is as lucky as me to do something for those who suffer, who are disadvantaged. I take to heart my role as a UNICEF ambassador and I hope that this initiative will make it clear to everyone the importance of the issue of vaccination against polio. In recent years, there has been considerable progress in this area, against this terrible disease, but much remains to be done, especially for children .... "




#11291 AlanWake

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 16:44

Fernando will do tomorrow something for UNICEF. Machine translation from french.


Maybe Fernando isn't a bad guy after all  ;)

#11292 currupipi

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 17:05

I am not that sure if Alonso & Massa are driving for the Cavallino Team anymore... It looks much more like the Puledro Team...;)

And talking about animals... The horse has become old fashioned, now it's time for the bull... :p


:rotfl: with some of the strategy calls they have made this year you are too generous

#11293 Fontainebleau

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 17:57

he should have Used the best of your talent. We know how big it is :rotfl: ... he can't pretend his teammate to move over for him every time he's stuck behind him. And it gave him a bad reputation.

You make an interesting point there, because in fact Alonso is neither the first nor the last to comment on his speed relative to that of his teammate, yet apparently he is the only one getting a bad reputation for it. And of course, he does not do it "every time" he is stuck behind him, quite often he simply overtakes - and gets trashed on the Internet for being too agressive to his teammate. :p

Since you are a Newbie ;) you may have not seen this before

Does it ring a bell? Now, the guy behind this decision is the same Eddie Jordan that screams murder every time Ferrari does anything that could remotely smell of team orders.

Also, for those of you who have not seen it, this is part of a nice interview with Webber where he adresses the issue of team orders and crashing with your teammate ;)

Edited by Fontainebleau, 25 October 2011 - 17:58.


#11294 PoleMan

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 18:10

nope

Posted Image

To hopefully put an end to this, and remove all doubt (for reasonable people) over whether Massa was delayed in the pits due to other cars, here is Felipe, himself:

"I'm not pleased because small problems prevented me from getting a better result. I got a good start and, on the opening lap, I managed to make up some places, then at the first pit stop, I rejoined the track behind Rosberg and Button. This was mainly because the team had to keep me on my spot because Michael was coming and also because the other two had pitted before me."

Also, here is a more complete quote of Fernando on his speed relative to Massa. Careful reading shows that he actually says each time that he is FASTER than Felipe, though not by much throughout the entire race! So where is the contradiction?;)

Alonso also insisted that he was not frustrated with either Massa or Ferrari as a whole.
"I was not much quicker than him at that time. I struggled a lot in the first part of the race with the super-soft tyres so I tried to manage the degradation.

"Then, after the stops, I found myself between (Vitaly) Petrov and Michael (Schumacher) and really close to their accident in Turn Three.

"Behind Nico, we also lost a bit of time, but I was not much quicker at that time of the race. When we switched to the softs, the situation improved significantly and, with a clear track, I was able to push as hard as I could. "I did 20 qualifying laps to catch the group in front, but we arrived a little bit too late to the battle. I was only quick in the last stint so we will try to see why."

Edited by PoleMan, 25 October 2011 - 18:14.


#11295 joshb

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 18:18

You make an interesting point there, because in fact Alonso is neither the first nor the last to comment on his speed relative to that of his teammate, yet apparently he is the only one getting a bad reputation for it. And of course, he does not do it "every time" he is stuck behind him, quite often he simply overtakes - and gets trashed on the Internet for being too agressive to his teammate. :p

Since you are a Newbie ;) you may have not seen this before

Does it ring a bell? Now, the guy behind this decision is the same Eddie Jordan that screams murder every time Ferrari does anything that could remotely smell of team orders.

Also, for those of you who have not seen it, this is part of a nice interview with Webber where he adresses the issue of team orders and crashing with your teammate ;)


And Damon had the cheek to disagree with the Red Bull team orders at Silverstone!

#11296 faaaz

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 18:35

lol @ ayrtonsauna....that has to be the dumbest/funniest nickname I have seen.

Edited by faaaz, 25 October 2011 - 18:35.


#11297 T-Mobile

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 18:54

So if Alonso is the one who has to tell the team he is faster than Massa... Just one little question... What kind of data does the tema have from the computers and the telemetries? I don't understand anything...


My point is all that stuff is the team's concern. If he wants to let them know he thinks he is faster, let him. All drivers should do (and most already do, if they are every held up by a teammate.)

As pointed out by another comment, people like to rag on Alonso because of this, but in reality it comes down to the teams decision. Personally, I don't see a problem with Alonso's behavior. He just wants to get past someone he knows he can lap faster than, and the people he is talking to can influence that situation.


#11298 prty

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 21:25

nope

[img]http://i52.tinypic.com/2cf5mw7.jpg[img]

That picture shows Massa just released and a car stopped in the pits just in front on him, so how can that picture be a "nope"?


#11299 cardin

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 21:57

My point is all that stuff is the team's concern. If he wants to let them know he thinks he is faster, let him. All drivers should do (and most already do, if they are every held up by a teammate.)

As pointed out by another comment, people like to rag on Alonso because of this, but in reality it comes down to the teams decision. Personally, I don't see a problem with Alonso's behavior. He just wants to get past someone he knows he can lap faster than, and the people he is talking to can influence that situation.


Your, and a lot of other posters here, atempt to trivialise the incident by saying it's common currency in F1 would be very valid if it was true, but there's a huge problem with this
characterization; in three pages of debate you could only come up with 1 other example of this happening. Alonso, on the other hand, has at least 3(three) documented instances were he asked for team orders.

As for you not seeing a problem with the practice of team orders, specially when there's nothing important at play, what can I say ? I like car racing. I'm not sure what to call what you like.

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#11300 fieraku

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 22:12

As much as I'd like to give FA a good bash (courtesy of 'some' fans) that Felipe baby has turned into a "moving chicane",I was surprised at Alonso being calm and collective behind "Slow-mo Massa",I was waiting for a bull-rush.

I really really hate team-orders,but there has to be a limit on how slow you can be!