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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#11701 tkulla

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 21:58

Fernando Alonso says gap to McLaren in qualifying is flattering Ferrari's car

Am I the only getting sick of Fernando saying things like this? It's SOOO self-serving. He might as well just say "Look how much better I am than Lewis & Jenson, since I'm almost matching them in this truck" (don't use "truck" though - it even got Prost fired from Ferrari).

Tons of respect for Alonso as a driver, but I'm surprised the team isn't annoyed by these type of statements.

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#11702 ferrarijon123

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 22:04

Fernando Alonso says gap to McLaren in qualifying is flattering Ferrari's car

Am I the only getting sick of Fernando saying things like this? It's SOOO self-serving. He might as well just say "Look how much better I am than Lewis & Jenson, since I'm almost matching them in this truck" (don't use "truck" though - it even got Prost fired from Ferrari).

Tons of respect for Alonso as a driver, but I'm surprised the team isn't annoyed by these type of statements.

I'm not sick of it, he's just telling the truth which is what we all want to hear. I think the team recognise that he's outperforming the car as well so thats why i dont think their annoyed.

#11703 showtime

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 22:07

Fernando Alonso says gap to McLaren in qualifying is flattering Ferrari's car

Am I the only getting sick of Fernando saying things like this? It's SOOO self-serving. He might as well just say "Look how much better I am than Lewis & Jenson, since I'm almost matching them in this truck" (don't use "truck" though - it even got Prost fired from Ferrari).

Tons of respect for Alonso as a driver, but I'm surprised the team isn't annoyed by these type of statements.


You can see it that way and probably you are right about him being repetitive. But I can't see any other way of putting his performance into perspective. Well there's another way, Felipe's time, but he has done it before and was criticized too. Ferrari bosses have already labelled the car as disappointing so Alonso's words shouldn't be a problem for a team already focused on 2012 .

#11704 tkulla

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 22:14

You can see it that way and probably you are right about him being repetitive. But I can't see any other way of putting his performance into perspective. Well there's another way, Felipe's time, but he has done it before and was criticized too. Ferrari bosses have already labelled the car as disappointing so Alonso's words shouldn't be a problem for a team already focused on 2012 .


I suppose. But it strikes me as a cry for attention that isn't necessary. I'm sure it bugs him that Sebastian is having such an amazing year and grabbing all the headlines, but it's not going to win him any points with the team or any respect from his rivals. It's not a big deal by any means, but in a season where almost everyone acknowledges that Fernando has had an excellent season it seems a bit silly.

Oh, and there's no such thing as "outperforming" the car. I know it's semantics but it bugs me when people say stuff like this. He might be getting closer to 100% of this car's potential than his rivals are in theirs (though this is something that literally NO ONE knows).

Or maybe I'm just a bit grouchy.... maybe I need a snack. :)

#11705 Mr j

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 22:23

I'm not sick of it, he's just telling the truth which is what we all want to hear. I think the team recognise that he's outperforming the car as well so thats why i dont think their annoyed.


I guess saying things like this is part of what Ferrari means when saying that they need a team leader.

So yes, I think you're right in that Ferrari is happy with Alonso saying these things. A team leader these days is not only a driver who can deliver on track but also one who can put words to whose performance makes the difference.

And to all disbelievers just look where the help driver, I mean the nr 2 driver, qualified on the grid.

#11706 YellowHelmet

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 22:24

Alonso tends to be somewhat inconsistent under wet conditions. One day he is in the league of his own (First laps of Hungary 2006 and China 2006 and latter stages of Nurburgring 2007 and Korea 2010), another day he isn't fast enough (albeit very few times) or is fast but erratic (Fuji 2007 or Spa 2010) or is just good but not exceptional (Australia 2010, China 2010, etc).

like every other driver before him and after.

and it is a mistake to judge his performance without taking the possibilities of his car into account.

how for gods sake can you say that alonso was not special in australia 2010, in wet he was the fastest guy.

and china 2010 he was extraordinary in wet (the false start had nothing to do with the rain!).

what one can say is that alonso is often unlucky in wet races.
e.g. australia 2010: he got hit by button and so lost a lot of places and button wins
e.g. canada 2011: he got hit by button and so had a dnf and button wins

Edited by YellowHelmet, 26 November 2011 - 22:28.


#11707 garoidb

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 22:24

Oh, and there's no such thing as "outperforming" the car. I know it's semantics but it bugs me when people say stuff like this. He might be getting closer to 100% of this car's potential than his rivals are in theirs (though this is something that literally NO ONE knows).


Absolutely, he can only outperform other drivers. I presume he did not use that phrase.

#11708 Mandzipop

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 22:30

As a Ferrari fan, I'll be honest about my feelings with regards to Alonso.

In the dry he is the best driver on the grid. I know I'm a Seb fan too, but I appreciate all driver skills for what they are. Alonso's is IMO not necessarily speed, but efficiency. He establishes what tools he has at his disposal, then looks at what the possibilities are with those tools to hand in a realistic manner. He know what he needs to do to achieve that goal and works out his competition probably better than anyone else on the grid. He is very calculating and very consistant. His wet weather skills aren't extraordinary though. Even in more recent times the best driver on the grid in full wet conditions IMO is probably Schumacher. Button is the changeable conditions master. maybe it is the cars that Alonso has driven that have made his life difficult in the wet, but I do think that certain conditions do suit certain drivers better than others regardless of the car they are driving. Alonso is not bad in the wet, but it isn't his stongest point.

#11709 YellowHelmet

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 22:34

As a Ferrari fan, I'll be honest about my feelings with regards to Alonso.

In the dry he is the best driver on the grid. I know I'm a Seb fan too, but I appreciate all driver skills for what they are. Alonso's is IMO not necessarily speed, but efficiency. He establishes what tools he has at his disposal, then looks at what the possibilities are with those tools to hand in a realistic manner. He know what he needs to do to achieve that goal and works out his competition probably better than anyone else on the grid. He is very calculating and very consistant. His wet weather skills aren't extraordinary though. Even in more recent times the best driver on the grid in full wet conditions IMO is probably Schumacher. Button is the changeable conditions master. maybe it is the cars that Alonso has driven that have made his life difficult in the wet, but I do think that certain conditions do suit certain drivers better than others regardless of the car they are driving. Alonso is not bad in the wet, but it isn't his stongest point.

time will prove this, too.
sometimes some circumstances which are not always obvious influence our judgement, which can lead to some wrong assumptions.
i personally think he is special in rain, too.

Edited by YellowHelmet, 26 November 2011 - 22:41.


#11710 Mr j

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 22:39

As a Ferrari fan, I'll be honest about my feelings with regards to Alonso.

In the dry he is the best driver on the grid. I know I'm a Seb fan too, but I appreciate all driver skills for what they are. Alonso's is IMO not necessarily speed, but efficiency. He establishes what tools he has at his disposal, then looks at what the possibilities are with those tools to hand in a realistic manner. He know what he needs to do to achieve that goal and works out his competition probably better than anyone else on the grid. He is very calculating and very consistant. His wet weather skills aren't extraordinary though. Even in more recent times the best driver on the grid in full wet conditions IMO is probably Schumacher. Button is the changeable conditions master. maybe it is the cars that Alonso has driven that have made his life difficult in the wet, but I do think that certain conditions do suit certain drivers better than others regardless of the car they are driving. Alonso is not bad in the wet, but it isn't his stongest point.


So what you're actually saying is that your foremost an Alonso fan.

#11711 garoidb

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 22:41

As a Ferrari fan, I'll be honest about my feelings with regards to Alonso.

In the dry he is the best driver on the grid. I know I'm a Seb fan too, but I appreciate all driver skills for what they are. Alonso's is IMO not necessarily speed, but efficiency. He establishes what tools he has at his disposal, then looks at what the possibilities are with those tools to hand in a realistic manner. He know what he needs to do to achieve that goal and works out his competition probably better than anyone else on the grid. He is very calculating and very consistant. His wet weather skills aren't extraordinary though. Even in more recent times the best driver on the grid in full wet conditions IMO is probably Schumacher. Button is the changeable conditions master. maybe it is the cars that Alonso has driven that have made his life difficult in the wet, but I do think that certain conditions do suit certain drivers better than others regardless of the car they are driving. Alonso is not bad in the wet, but it isn't his stongest point.


I think it also needs to be said that he is not slow. Only Hamilton has really troubled him for pace, and Hamilton does not have all the other attributes you have listed. I think many of these comments could have been made about drivers like Prost and Lauda in the past. These are important skills and all part of the competition.

#11712 YellowHelmet

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 22:43

About Alonso being the best:

Today for whatever reason and only god knows why, Lauda said at RTL that Alonso is the best driver out there and repeating it with saying that alonso is the best of the best (including vettel, hamilton etc.)

i was astonished by that, normally he talks crap against alonso.
maybe that was just his lucid moment.

#11713 AlanWake

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 22:44

So what you're actually saying is that your foremost an Alonso fan.


Hmm, are you saying that all people (fans, journalists, drivers and team bosses) that say Fernando is the best driver on the grid are Alonso Fans? :well:

#11714 showtime

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 22:45

As a Ferrari fan, I'll be honest about my feelings with regards to Alonso.

In the dry he is the best driver on the grid. I know I'm a Seb fan too, but I appreciate all driver skills for what they are. Alonso's is IMO not necessarily speed, but efficiency. He establishes what tools he has at his disposal, then looks at what the possibilities are with those tools to hand in a realistic manner. He know what he needs to do to achieve that goal and works out his competition probably better than anyone else on the grid. He is very calculating and very consistant. His wet weather skills aren't extraordinary though. Even in more recent times the best driver on the grid in full wet conditions IMO is probably Schumacher. Button is the changeable conditions master. maybe it is the cars that Alonso has driven that have made his life difficult in the wet, but I do think that certain conditions do suit certain drivers better than others regardless of the car they are driving. Alonso is not bad in the wet, but it isn't his stongest point.


That would be my opinion or something very close to it.

#11715 AlanWake

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 22:46

As a Ferrari fan, I'll be honest about my feelings with regards to Alonso.

In the dry he is the best driver on the grid. I know I'm a Seb fan too, but I appreciate all driver skills for what they are. Alonso's is IMO not necessarily speed, but efficiency. He establishes what tools he has at his disposal, then looks at what the possibilities are with those tools to hand in a realistic manner. He know what he needs to do to achieve that goal and works out his competition probably better than anyone else on the grid. He is very calculating and very consistant. His wet weather skills aren't extraordinary though. Even in more recent times the best driver on the grid in full wet conditions IMO is probably Schumacher. Button is the changeable conditions master. maybe it is the cars that Alonso has driven that have made his life difficult in the wet, but I do think that certain conditions do suit certain drivers better than others regardless of the car they are driving. Alonso is not bad in the wet, but it isn't his stongest point.


Good post :up:

#11716 Mr j

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 22:49

I think it also needs to be said that he is not slow. Only Hamilton has really troubled him for pace, and Hamilton does not have all the other attributes you have listed. I think many of these comments could have been made about drivers like Prost and Lauda in the past. These are important skills and all part of the competition.

That is a very generous wording but if it makes you happy let's say it's like that and not use words like beaten by a rookie, okay? but on the other hand he's never been team up against a "paracarro" like Button.

#11717 Mr j

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 22:53

Hmm, are you saying that all people (fans, journalists, drivers and team bosses) that say Fernando is the best driver on the grid are Alonso Fans? :well:

Where did I say that? If I said anything it was that don't diguise your fanboyism.

#11718 garoidb

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 22:53

That is a very generous wording but if it makes you happy let's say it's like that and not use words like beaten by a rookie, okay? but on the other hand he's never been team up against a "paracarro" like Button.


I have no idea what a "paracarro" is, but Alonso has been in the same team as Button. He was test driver at Renault in 2002 and took Jenson's seat for 2003.

#11719 Mr j

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 22:55

I have no idea what a "paracarro" is, but Alonso has been in the same team as Button. He was test driver at Renault in 2002 and took Jenson's seat for 2003.

Ask Alonsos manager!

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#11720 Mandzipop

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 22:56

So what you're actually saying is that your foremost an Alonso fan.


Actually the complete opposite. I went to the Bakewell show in 2006 and made an imitation spit at his car. I couldn't stand him. In 2007 my opinion changed. I felt a bit sorry for him. That was not the Alonso that I knew.

I am a Ferrari fan who will support whoever drives for Ferrari, regardless of whether I actually like the driver or not.

Since he left Mclaren I've appreciated his skills more and since he joined Ferrari I have appreciated them even more.

#11721 AlanWake

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 23:11

Where did I say that? If I said anything it was that don't diguise your fanboyism.


I know you’re a smart boy and therefore you can see that I was just being ironic, ok? ;)

#11722 Mandzipop

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 23:17

I think it also needs to be said that he is not slow. Only Hamilton has really troubled him for pace, and Hamilton does not have all the other attributes you have listed. I think many of these comments could have been made about drivers like Prost and Lauda in the past. These are important skills and all part of the competition.


He isn't slow, but I don't think he is the fastest driver on the grid. But his attributes are stronger than out and out speed.

Some people seem to think that out and out raw speed is the most important thing. In my eyes that is not the case. Even Senna knew that and he talks about it in the film about learning more.

As far as I see it is that level one is the raw pace, which all F1 drivers should have. It's that next level that is more difficult. The learning, improving and absorbing process. Some drivers can get the bigger picture. Alonso is one of them.

A driver doesn't get faster, they get better at being as fast as they are and maintaining it. The requirements are patience and dogged determination and maximumising what you can get out of the car at any given weekend. Alonso is hard but fair. He understands the restrictions of the car, he wont let a faster car through easily, but he doesn't put himself into the situation of a do and lose everything. He doesn't put himself in the position to end up with a DNF as opposed to losing 2 points.

#11723 garoidb

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 23:20

He isn't slow, but I don't think he is the fastest driver on the grid. But his attributes are stronger than out and out speed.

Some people seem to think that out and out raw speed is the most important thing. In my eyes that is not the case. Even Senna knew that and he talks about it in the film about learning more.

As far as I see it is that level one is the raw pace, which all F1 drivers should have. It's that next level that is more difficult. The learning, improving and absorbing process. Some drivers can get the bigger picture. Alonso is one of them.

A driver doesn't get faster, they get better at being as fast as they are and maintaining it. The requirements are patience and dogged determination and maximumising what you can get out of the car at any given weekend. Alonso is hard but fair. He understands the restrictions of the car, he wont let a faster car through easily, but he doesn't put himself into the situation of a do and lose everything. He doesn't put himself in the position to end up with a DNF as opposed to losing 2 points.


Another good post, to which I fully subscribe.

#11724 Mr j

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 23:23

Actually the complete opposite. I went to the Bakewell show in 2006 and made an imitation spit at his car. I couldn't stand him. In 2007 my opinion changed. I felt a bit sorry for him. That was not the Alonso that I knew.

I am a Ferrari fan who will support whoever drives for Ferrari, regardless of whether I actually like the driver or not.

Since he left Mclaren I've appreciated his skills more and since he joined Ferrari I have appreciated them even more.

Okay then, I get your a Ferrari fan foremost but I have a question since I understand that you support Ferrari and who drives there first of of all , but did you have the same feeling towards all Ferrari drivers?

Also did you hope all along that Alonso would drive for Ferrari one day? And since you said that you appreciate Vettel so highly is your dream team a Alonso and Vettel partnership one day?

#11725 YellowHelmet

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 23:27

He isn't slow, but I don't think he is the fastest driver on the grid. But his attributes are stronger than out and out speed.

Some people seem to think that out and out raw speed is the most important thing. In my eyes that is not the case. Even Senna knew that and he talks about it in the film about learning more.

As far as I see it is that level one is the raw pace, which all F1 drivers should have. It's that next level that is more difficult. The learning, improving and absorbing process. Some drivers can get the bigger picture. Alonso is one of them.

A driver doesn't get faster, they get better at being as fast as they are and maintaining it. The requirements are patience and dogged determination and maximumising what you can get out of the car at any given weekend. Alonso is hard but fair. He understands the restrictions of the car, he wont let a faster car through easily, but he doesn't put himself into the situation of a do and lose everything. He doesn't put himself in the position to end up with a DNF as opposed to losing 2 points.

there are some good points in it.

the only part to which i would not agree is that about alonso not being the fastest.
i think that no driver is faster right now than him.

#11726 Mr j

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 23:34

I know you’re a smart boy and therefore you can see that I was just being ironic, ok?;)

Praise will get you a long way. :p On a more serious I like that you get that I'm just trying to stir the pot a little bit, no harm meant, and you know what, I think Alonso is as fine of a driver as they come.

But that was no fun so let's get back to topic or is it off topic...

Edited by Mr j, 26 November 2011 - 23:40.


#11727 Mandzipop

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 00:10

Okay then, I get your a Ferrari fan foremost but I have a question since I understand that you support Ferrari and who drives there first of of all , but did you have the same feeling towards all Ferrari drivers?

Also did you hope all along that Alonso would drive for Ferrari one day? And since you said that you appreciate Vettel so highly is your dream team a Alonso and Vettel partnership one day?


When I officially started supporting a Ferrari driver properly was at the latter end of 1998 with Irvine. I hated Schumacher, yet I saw an interview with him in 1999 after he broke his leg. I took to him. After that it was always Schumacher. When he retired in 2006 I didn't know who to support, so I stayed with Ferrari as a team. I liked Massa and I had no issues with Kimi joining Ferrari. I didn't expect to want to follow another driver. But Seb came along at Indy 2007 and I liked him straight away. I knew at that race he would be a multiple WDC. Don't ask me why or how, but I knew straight off. There are people who do occasionally post on this forum that can back me up on that. However I doubt they will post on this topic.

My boyfriend cannot grasp how I can be a Ferrari fan and a Seb fan at the same time. Maybe it is a woman thing. ;)

In answer to your question about Alonso driving for Ferrari one day, towards the end of 2007, I knew it was going to happen. I totally expected it. In fact I was surprised it took so long.

Would I want Vettel and Alonso both at Ferrari? Well yes as in my eyes the WCC is more important to Ferrari as opposed to the WDC. They are both consistant enough even with the 2nd fastest car on the grid to get the WCC. But that depends on whether another team builds a rocketship or not. I reckon Seb would win in qualifying. But I don't think that would de-stabalize Alonso like he got at Mclaren. He would know what he is up against. However they seem to have a similar attitude and I'm not sure that would be good for Ferrari, even if they had the fastest car by a country mile. I'm not sure Stefano would cope with it as a TP. I'd love to see it, but as a Ferrari fan, I dont. If that makes any sense. :well:

Edited by Mandzipop, 27 November 2011 - 00:11.


#11728 kosmos

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 04:36

The most exciting thing about this weekend so far is Alonso again patting himself on the back for flattering the car (sorry I couldn't resist and no need to respond to this trolling).



Really?, let's see, Autosport headline vs Alonso real quote.

Fernando Alonso says gap to McLaren in qualifying is flattering Ferrari's car


"What this means is that we managed to get a little bit more out of it than our potential would indicate."


How can anyone can turn that in Alonso patting himself is beyond me.

#11729 kosmos

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 09:06

Posted Image



#11730 Smile17

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 09:32

^That's a lovely picture with Rubens' son Eduardo. Thanks for posting it here.

#11731 Devero

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 10:26

the only part to which i would not agree is that about alonso not being the fastest.
i think that no driver is faster right now than him.


This year Alonso can consistently eat alive anyone. He is back in force of 2005-2006 :)

Edited by Devero, 27 November 2011 - 11:06.


#11732 AlanWake

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:03

This year Alonso can consistently eat live anyone. He is back in force of 2005-2006 :)


He has improved massively in qualifying and is stronger mentally (which was his weakest point on that period of time), so I would say he is better now than in 2005-2006 when he clearly had a winning car in his hands, unlike now.

I don't believe the Alonso of 2003-2007 would have done as well this year with a car as difficult to drive like the F150, but that's my opinion, of course. He would have been fast in races, but not as consistent in terms of results and not as good in qualifying as he is right now.

#11733 Devero

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:14

He has improved massively in qualifying and is stronger mentally (which was his weakest point on that period of time), so I would say he is better now than in 2005-2006 when he clearly had a winning car in his hands, unlike now.

I don't believe the Alonso of 2003-2007 would have done as well this year with a car as difficult to drive like the F150, but that's my opinion, of course. He would have been fast in races, but not as consistent in terms of results and not as good in qualifying as he is right now.


I disagree slightly. 2006 title was won through adversity, huge amount of pressure from desperate MS and FIA, Renault/Michelin decline in second part of the season, bad luck and so on.
But as of 2007 onwards he faced other types of challenges he could not cope properly and he got lost a bit, especially in 2009, his worst season to date.
So last year Fernando was a bit rusty and in the process of accomodating in his new team. But in the second part of 2010 with exception of Spa he was flawless and carried this even more reinforced form through this year.
Yet his top year so far is still 2006 imho. He is still on a mission to repeat it or better it. Very much hopefully this will happen next year.

Edited by Devero, 27 November 2011 - 11:23.


#11734 nbhb

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:22

I like the way Alonso's ultimate speed is underrated.

#11735 kosmos

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:32

and he got lost a bit, especially in 2009, his worst season to date.



You say that like it was his fault, the car was crap and still he managed to do some solid races, many of them in the top 7 and one podium.

#11736 AlanWake

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:37

I like the way Alonso's ultimate speed is underrated.

:up:

#11737 Devero

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:42

You say that like it was his fault, the car was crap and still he managed to do some solid races, many of them in the top 7 and one podium.


Even in his worst year Alonso remains himself ;)

Here is my personal rating of his seasons so far (level of experience and age has been taken into consideration):

1. 2006
2. 2011, 2005
3. 2003, 2001
4. 2010, 2008
5. 2007, 2004
6. 2009

Edited by Devero, 27 November 2011 - 11:43.


#11738 YellowHelmet

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 12:04

I like the way Alonso's ultimate speed is underrated.

i also can not understand that.

his speed is not surpasable by any other driver right now + his ability to carry this speed on through a whole race is near to magic.


#11739 YellowHelmet

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 12:13

Even in his worst year Alonso remains himself ;)

Here is my personal rating of his seasons so far (level of experience and age has been taken into consideration):

1. 2006
2. 2011, 2005
3. 2003, 2001
4. 2010, 2008
5. 2007, 2004
6. 2009

i dont know why such ratings are needed?

but if, i cant understand how anyone can not see the special way of alonsos 2007 season?

for me personally this was the most outstanding performance of a driver who is being repeatedly mistreaten by his team and still that guy fought till the last second for the title.
maybe some are unsatisified coz hamilton had the same amount of points, but still the circumstances how those points were earned, how the team surrounding effected this outcome, is something that makes alonsos 2007 maybe the greatest overcoming of injust circumstances of any other driver in history.

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#11740 AlanWake

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 12:26

The R29 was probably the worst car of the year in 2009 (remember there weren't Hispanias, Virgins or Lotus back then ;) ).

Actually, Renault finished that year 8th in the WCC :eek: , in front of Force India and Toro Rosso with 73 points in the new points system and Fernando was the only Renault driver who scored points for the team. So it is not ridiculous to say that without a driver of Alonso's calibre, Renault would have finished last in the WCC standings, with zero or very few points.

For Alonso's standards, 2009 was a very bad year without a doubt, but for a driver like Sutil, Kovalainen, Kobayashi, Pérez, Alguersuari, etc, if they had got similar results like FA in 2009 with the R29, most people would have said they had a great year considering the rubbish car they were driving...

Edited by AlanWake, 27 November 2011 - 12:29.


#11741 topical

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 12:38

Yet his top year so far is still 2006 imho. He is still on a mission to repeat it or better it. Very much hopefully this will happen next year.


I agree. 2006 was his best year, but 2005 he was very good and 2011 has been very good as well.

#11742 NZX_Lorne

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 12:44

Fernando Alonso says gap to McLaren in qualifying is flattering Ferrari's car

Am I the only getting sick of Fernando saying things like this? It's SOOO self-serving. He might as well just say "Look how much better I am than Lewis & Jenson, since I'm almost matching them in this truck" (don't use "truck" though - it even got Prost fired from Ferrari).

Tons of respect for Alonso as a driver, but I'm surprised the team isn't annoyed by these type of statements.

Didn't figure you to be the kind of guy to bash a driver based only on a jurnos made up headline. What did Fernando say that makes you sick? Seems to me you didn't even read the article, as this is what FA actually said:
"We are not very pleased with the balance of the car and we were expecting a very competitive Mercedes. However, in Q3, we got much closer to the McLarens than we could have expected, while the first of the Mercedes was left a few tenths back. What this means is that we managed to get a little bit more out of it than our potential would indicate."

#11743 topical

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 12:47

time will prove this, too.
sometimes some circumstances which are not always obvious influence our judgement, which can lead to some wrong assumptions.
i personally think he is special in rain, too.


Is there a single area of F1 where you don't think Alonso is "special" and better than everyone else?  ;)

I agree with the majority of posters here and have said it time and again (and been criticised by some of the more extreme Alonso fans for it): he is erratic in the wet.Some good races, but too many mediocre and bad ones (either just slow or spinning too much). Button, Hamilton and probably Vettel are all better in wet and changing conditons. But Alonso would probably be in the group behind them.

#11744 tkulla

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 13:08

Didn't figure you to be the kind of guy to bash a driver based only on a jurnos made up headline. What did Fernando say that makes you sick? Seems to me you didn't even read the article, as this is what FA actually said:
"We are not very pleased with the balance of the car and we were expecting a very competitive Mercedes. However, in Q3, we got much closer to the McLarens than we could have expected, while the first of the Mercedes was left a few tenths back. What this means is that we managed to get a little bit more out of it than our potential would indicate."


After re-reading the article, I must admit that you're absolutely right. What Alonso actually said was nothing like the headline or the introductory paragraph of the story:

"Fernando Alonso believes his performance in qualifying for the Brazilian Grand Prix has flattered the actual pace of his Ferrari."

Such an amateur mistake to fall for a deceiving headline. :blush:

It makes me wonder why they would give it such a headline... maybe they don't like that Lewis and Fernando are all buddy-buddy now and are trying to bring back Alonso as a villain because Seb is too happy-go-lucky? Who knows.

--------

As for Alonso and his speed compared to Sebastian or Lewis or Jenson, it's just so damned hard to know. If we knew for sure that Massa was the same guy who sent off Kimi in 2008 then we'd have to look at the difference between FA and FM and conclude that Alonso is the second coming. But I don't think we can do that. Whether it's a physical problem or a psychological problem, Felipe doesn't seem like the same driver. It would be like assuming that Rosberg is the best driver on the grid because he's dominating Schumi in qualifying - we simply don't know if this Schumacher is the same guy, and we figure he isn't.

That's to take nothing away from Alonso. He's doing a great job this year, as usual. But we lack a good benchmark to really know for sure.

Sadly, it looks like another year of Massa sitting in a top seat he doesn't deserve next season, so we'll have the same problem in 2012. I wish they'd draft Rosberg in to replace him - then we would know a lot more about Fernando's (and Nico's) qualifying pace.

#11745 NZX_Lorne

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 13:35

The R29 was probably the worst car of the year in 2009 (remember there weren't Hispanias, Virgins or Lotus back then ;) ).

Actually, Renault finished that year 8th in the WCC :eek: , in front of Force India and Toro Rosso with 73 points in the new points system and Fernando was the only Renault driver who scored points for the team. So it is not ridiculous to say that without a driver of Alonso's calibre, Renault would have finished last in the WCC standings, with zero or very few points.

Exactly. The car started the season at the bottom of the mid-pack and quickly got worse from there, as Renault's make-shift DDD solutions couldn't compete with the Ferrari/McLaren efforts. Development was stopped with still half the season remaining and in the end it was pretty much the worst car on the grid.

Surprisingly though, in that R29 crap-box, Alonso still managed to beat Hamilton in 9 out of 17 races. . .

Posted Image


#11746 NZX_Lorne

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 13:46

After re-reading the article, I must admit that you're absolutely right. What Alonso actually said was nothing like the headline or the introductory paragraph of the story:

"Fernando Alonso believes his performance in qualifying for the Brazilian Grand Prix has flattered the actual pace of his Ferrari."

Such an amateur mistake to fall for a deceiving headline. :blush:

:up:

At one time or another I think we've all been taken in by those BS headlines. . .

Edited by NZX_Lorne, 27 November 2011 - 13:48.


#11747 YellowHelmet

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 14:11

Is there a single area of F1 where you don't think Alonso is "special" and better than everyone else? ;)

right now?
and we are talking just about f1 related things!?
i cant see any driver right now in any f1-related field stronger than alonso.

I agree with the majority of posters here and have said it time and again (and been criticised by some of the more extreme Alonso fans for it): he is erratic in the wet.Some good races, but too many mediocre and bad ones (either just slow or spinning too much). Button, Hamilton and probably Vettel are all better in wet and changing conditons. But Alonso would probably be in the group behind them.

give examples,
some that already were given, i have already deconstrued.
but as already said, every driver in the f1 field has strong and less strong rain races.
there is no driver right now and in the past who just had great rain races.
even those drivers you have mentioned had mediocre rain races and unspectacular ones.
thats why i cant understand your analysis and especially your conclusion.


#11748 AlanWake

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 14:23

Posted Image

As you see, except in 2004 and 2007, Fernando always has had the upper hand over his teammate.

#11749 YellowHelmet

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 14:27

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As you see, except in 2004 and 2007, Fernando always has had the upper hand over his teammate.

regarding what stats?

#11750 topical

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 14:33

give examples,
some that already were given, i have already deconstrued.
but as already said, every driver in the f1 field has strong and less strong rain races.
there is no driver right now and in the past who just had great rain races.
even those drivers you have mentioned had mediocre rain races and unspectacular ones.
thats why i cant understand your analysis and especially your conclusion.


Good rain races: Hungary 2006, Nurburgring 2007 (mixed conditions), Korea 2010.

Mediocre/bad ones: Japan 2007, China 2007, Monaco 2008/9(?), Belgium 2010, Canada 2011 and most others I can remember.

Facts are despite having a strong car for most of his career he's won one proper wet race (Korea 2010, and that because Vettel retired - although it was a great drive by Alonso) and one in mixed conditions (Nurburgring 2007). That's not that impressive. He's also never had a dominant wet drive like Hamilton and Vettel have, while Button is the acknowledged master of mixed conditions.
Wet weather driving and qualifying are not Alonso's strong points. He's all right, but his biggest strength is intelligent driving and incredible consistency in race conditions.

Edited by topical, 27 November 2011 - 14:35.