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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#11901 PARAZAR

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 14:23

If I don't know or think it, you don't know or think it as well :p

Nah, the Alonso of 2011 at least would have a good chance against Hamilton, that's for sure!

@ the two guys above me: good videos, thanks for posting :cat:

Alonso really took some extra speed with the short tow + KERS and braked very late where Jenson backed out of it early. Not sure if Button already used up all his KERS, probably due to DRS. Anyone with info on that one?


Well what he says is that he didn't want to go through the debris previously left by Senna and Schumi.

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#11902 cardin

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 14:29

You do however, invariably show up and purposefully misunderstand any interview when it suits you to construct your Alonso strawman to bash.


Nothing farther from the truth. From the top of my head, I remember, this year alone, two occasions in which I defended Alonso. One was an interview he gave in the beginning of this season. He said that Ferrari was strong, he was strong, he was going to beat everybody and he was going to be the champion for the next 10 years(I might be exagerating a little, but that was the spirit). The haters(see what I did there :) ) came in full force. I just replied that I saw no problem with his attitude, in fact that's the fighting spirit every driver should have. The other one was about his little squeeze on Vettel at Monza. The bashers(am I having fun or what ?) once again pounced. I said I saw no problem with the maneuver. In fact I think he's the most fair driver out there, without loosing aggression. I'm also not the first one to come here to criticize him after he has an off weekend, only when people start to come up with the most ridiculous excuses I show up.

I understand that you, as an Alonso fan, only see the bashing(oh my) but I hope I helped you to dispel this notion.




#11903 cardin

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 14:34

Hi

My first post here.

I have read this thread and still can't see how some people find it so difficult to understand FA's response to Autoprix. He wasn't saying that he beat Trulli because he was (Trulli) old or finished, he was complaining that when he won some fans wouldn't give him any credit - they'd say that he was winning only because his teammates were rubbish

I think this is an accurate description of the truth


Welcome to the board but beware of the haters, trolls and bashers, too many of them here. :)

Edited by cardin, 30 November 2011 - 14:34.


#11904 YellowHelmet

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 14:55

Welcome to the board but beware of the haters, trolls and bashers, too many of them here. :)

dont reveal yourself so fast  ;)

#11905 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 15:00

Nothing farther from the truth. From the top of my head, I remember, this year alone, two occasions in which I defended Alonso. One was an interview he gave in the beginning of this season. He said that Ferrari was strong, he was strong, he was going to beat everybody and he was going to be the champion for the next 10 years(I might be exagerating a little, but that was the spirit). The haters(see what I did there :) ) came in full force. I just replied that I saw no problem with his attitude, in fact that's the fighting spirit every driver should have. The other one was about his little squeeze on Vettel at Monza. The bashers(am I having fun or what ?) once again pounced. I said I saw no problem with the maneuver. In fact I think he's the most fair driver out there, without loosing aggression. I'm also not the first one to come here to criticize him after he has an off weekend, only when people start to come up with the most ridiculous excuses I show up.

I understand that you, as an Alonso fan, only see the bashing(oh my) but I hope I helped you to dispel this notion.


It's certainly possible that I remember your posts in a skewed way as well, human perception is like that. But still, I'd be surprised if the large majority (edit: I meant "in this thread") was not anti-Alonso on often very dubious grounds. I cannot go and check your posting history because I am on roaming internet with like 2 KB/s, and that will be so for the next few months.

Anyway, it wouldn't hurt if you reevaluated your own approach as well instead of seeing bias primarily in the Alonso fans, while you are always clearsighted. (Though I'll give you that you conceded possible cultural bias in your latest go at Alonso, even if I don't know where such a tremendous cultural bias would come from which made you see him blowing his own horn in that interview. Where are you posting from, China 300 years ago?)

Edit: I missed this the first time - really, this year alone you remember two occasions in which you defended Alonso. Man, you really are the pinnacle of objectivity! Remind me, how many posts did you make nitpicking and distorting his quotes?

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 30 November 2011 - 18:23.


#11906 SCUDmissile

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 18:57

for a long time, we have heard this:
Kimi 1 title with Ferrari > Fernando no titles with Ferrari.
Maybe, we can have next year Fernando 2 tiles with Renault > Kimi no titles with renault. :D

just playin. but i find it funny how Kimi and Alonso have now managed to both drive for Renault, Ferrari and McLaren. their career paths have been a little similar.

#11907 mursuka80

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 19:02

for a long time, we have heard this:
Kimi 1 title with Ferrari > Fernando no titles with Ferrari.
Maybe, we can have next year Fernando 2 tiles with Renault > Kimi no titles with renault. :D

just playin. but i find it funny how Kimi and Alonso have now managed to both drive for Renault, Ferrari and McLaren. their career paths have been a little similar.


I hope some racing between the two, because they are both clean and fair racers who respect other drivers. Roll on 2012!! :clap:

#11908 Aieljose

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 19:12

for a long time, we have heard this:
Kimi 1 title with Ferrari > Fernando no titles with Ferrari.
Maybe, we can have next year Fernando 2 tiles with Renault > Kimi no titles with renault. :D
just playin. but i find it funny how Kimi and Alonso have now managed to both drive for Renault, Ferrari and McLaren. their career paths have been a little similar.

:kiss: You are a genius.

#11909 SCUDmissile

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 19:13

I hope some racing between the two, because they are both clean and fair racers who respect other drivers. Roll on 2012!! :clap:

:up:
if 2007 had gone as we expected, then it would have been an epic repeat of 2005.

#11910 fabr68

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 19:19

for a long time, we have heard this:
Kimi 1 title with Ferrari > Fernando no titles with Ferrari.
Maybe, we can have next year Fernando 2 tiles with Renault > Kimi no titles with renault.
:D

just playin. but i find it funny how Kimi and Alonso have now managed to both drive for Renault, Ferrari and McLaren. their career paths have been a little similar.


You are asking for trouble. Nevertheless, it would be priceless to read the lengthy excuses...


#11911 Skinnyguy

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 19:22

You are asking for trouble. Nevertheless, it would be priceless to read the lengthy excuses...


As it is now. :cat:

#11912 puxanando

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 21:36

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#11913 currupipi

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 22:28

for a long time, we have heard this:
Kimi 1 title with Ferrari > Fernando no titles with Ferrari.
Maybe, we can have next year Fernando 2 tiles with Renault > Kimi no titles with renault. :D

just playin. but i find it funny how Kimi and Alonso have now managed to both drive for Renault, Ferrari and McLaren. their career paths have been a little similar.


their careers will be different until we get alonso driving a nascar truck with chorizo revilla sponsership :p


#11914 CF22

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 22:47

Puxanando, you should change your sig to reflect 2012.

Fernando Alonso: "Ahora si ganaremos el campeonato".

#11915 bergasha

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 05:19

As for Alonso and his speed compared to Sebastian or Lewis or Jenson, it's just so damned hard to know. If we knew for sure that Massa was the same guy who sent off Kimi in 2008 then we'd have to look at the difference between FA and FM and conclude that Alonso is the second coming. But I don't think we can do that. Whether it's a physical problem or a psychological problem, Felipe doesn't seem like the same driver.


Unless Massa was abducted by aliens, he is the exact same driver, and there is no reason to assume he different just because its hard to swollow how much he is being dominated.

It would be like assuming that Rosberg is the best driver on the grid because he's dominating Schumi in qualifying - we simply don't know if this Schumacher is the same guy, and we figure he isn't.


No its nothing like that because we know 100% that at the age of 42, Michael is not and cannot be the same driver he was 10 years ago. A human body cannot defy age. On other hand, there is no credible reason to assume that Massa, in his prime, would suddenly lose 0.5 a lap in the space of 6 months.

That's to take nothing away from Alonso. He's doing a great job this year, as usual. But we lack a good benchmark to really know for sure.


Its taking everything away from Alonso.



#11916 bergasha

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 05:32

Relax. Where did I say such a thing? I suspect he is the best, since that seems to be the consensus amongst the team principals/insiders, who have more data to work with.

The question to me is whether he's just the best compromise of attributes, or whether there is any sort of gap between him and the rest of the top tier (currently Vettel, Hamilton & Button).

As for how good Fernando's teammates have been, I just don't see it. Let's look and see...

2001 - dominated his weak Minardi teammates.
2002 - test driver preparing for promotion at Renault as Flavio's golden child.
2003 - Impressively beats Jarno Trulli 55-33.
2004 - Edged by Trulli until the Italian mysteriously starts underperforming and is unceremoniously dumped late in the season and replaced by JV off the street.
2005 - Wins first WDC as he dominates new teammate Fisichella (impressive at the time as Fisi was a top midfield guy).
2006 - Wins 2nd WDC as he dominates new teammate Fisichella.
2007 - Tied by rookie Lewis Hamilton at McLaren (the less said about this the better - there are threads about this).
2008 - Nelson Piquet Jr? Not a terrible pedigree in lower formula, but not stellar considering his equipment. And a rookie to boot.
2009 - More Piquet, and then Grosjean. Romain is better than Piquet, but coming in mid-season as a rookie in a tricky car before he was ready.
2010 - Dominates Massa in his move to Ferrari - clearly he learned from his time at McLaren. Or is Massa just washed up?
2011 - More of the same versus the broken Massa.

All I see is a bunch of rookies, the two strong midfield driving Italians, and a post-injury Massa. No great shakes.

Button for instance, raced the same two Italians (and fared worse against Fisi in a difficult year), JV in the Canadians own team in 2003, Sato (not the strongest but at least known to be quick), a motivated Rubens (left Ferrari with a year on his contract to have a fair chance against a teammate), and two years against Lewis. In my mind that's way tougher than what Fernando has had to do, especially since he never benefitted from being the favored son (which really can't be denied RE Flavio and Fernando).



Oh dear. Jenson Button has had stronger team mates than Fernando Alonso now?

Lets just take a look at this claim under the microscrope.

Ralf Schumacher, Trulli, Fisichella (total 3 seasons)

Villenuve (washed up could not even keep a seat anymore)

Sato (pay driver, dominated by fisichella) Anthony Davidson (A never been) Barrichello (washed up career number 2) 7 seasons

Hamilton
Ralf Schumacher (beaten easily by Fisichella as team mates)

Button has had it easy for the majority of his career, and for the rest, shared the team mates with Alonso, and its pretty clear Alonso has had much strong team mates for most of his career despite your attempt to rewrite history. By the way he was the favoured son at BAR, especially when Richards made it openly clear he wanted Villeneuve out of the team.

#11917 bergasha

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 05:36

He has a point, but Felipe HAS forgotten how to drive, its painfully obvious and not because of the relative gap to his teammate. Alonso is in the very top class all the time, Felipe visited that class very briefly.



No driver temporarily visits the top class, they are either born with it or not. Massa never visited it. And I wonder if it has occured to you, how on earth a driver can suddenly forget to drive, in his prime? I also wonder if he forgot to drive in 2006 when Michael dominated him, or was that just down to Michaels greatness?

#11918 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 09:23

Unless Massa was abducted by aliens, he is the exact same driver, and there is no reason to assume he different just because its hard to swollow how much he is being dominated.


As I've already said in a previous post quite a while ago somewhere on the BB, Karl Wendlinger was not the same after his accident. He didn't believe at the time that it affected him and always maintained that he couldn't even remember the accident, so why would it. His doctors also told him there should be no problem, and he was pissed that Sauber let him go eventually. But in an interview with Austrian magazine Auto Revue last year he said that it took him many years to realize it, but today he knows that the accident did cost him speed. I am sorry to be unable to provide a link, as this was available only in the print magazine (which I don't have anymore) and the Auto Revue website was shit and did not have the articles. However they revamped the website since, so maybe they will add it to the online archives some time. http://www.autorevue.at/ - you can backorder (it's in German of course).

My conclusion: we have no idea if the accident affected Massa, and even if he himself is 100% sure to be the same, he still might not be.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 01 December 2011 - 09:25.


#11919 bergasha

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 10:08

As I've already said in a previous post quite a while ago somewhere on the BB, Karl Wendlinger was not the same after his accident. He didn't believe at the time that it affected him and always maintained that he couldn't even remember the accident, so why would it. His doctors also told him there should be no problem, and he was pissed that Sauber let him go eventually. But in an interview with Austrian magazine Auto Revue last year he said that it took him many years to realize it, but today he knows that the accident did cost him speed. I am sorry to be unable to provide a link, as this was available only in the print magazine (which I don't have anymore) and the Auto Revue website was shit and did not have the articles. However they revamped the website since, so maybe they will add it to the online archives some time. http://www.autorevue.at/ - you can backorder (it's in German of course).


Wendlinger was in a coma for weeks, Massa was concious within minutes. The accidents are not comparable, as the Germans was much more serious.



My conclusion: we have no idea if the accident affected Massa, and even if he himself is 100% sure to be the same, he still might not be.


So you give zero crediblity to modern medicine which has examined Massa and given him a clear bill of health? :confused:

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#11920 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 11:29

Wendlinger was in a coma for weeks, Massa was concious within minutes. The accidents are not comparable, as the Germans was much more serious.


He's Austrian :) But yeah, you are right, the severity of the accidents was different. However, Massa was not just unconscious for minutes, he had to be kept in a coma (albeit induced) for several days IIRC, there was enough injury to his brain to cause swelling and eye problems, several days went by until doctors felt confident enough to say he would likely recover, and it took repeated scans and treatment in the weeks after to support this.

So you give zero crediblity to modern medicine which has examined Massa and given him a clear bill of health? :confused:


Well, so did Wendlinger's doctors; granted, 17 years ago and medicine has improved. And while I believe that modern medicine is incredible, and I do not give it zero credibility (I don't know where you got that from), I have also practiced meditation and Tai Chi Chuan for 15 years as well as read quite a bit of serious neurophysiology, and I am of the opinion that despite the great knowledge medicine has about the brain, there is vastly more it does not know (edit: as any credible scientist will have no problem admitting either)

I appreciate your will to give credit to Alonso, I am a fan as well, and like you I oppose posters who are oh so sure that Alonso only is beating Massa because Massa is not the same. As anyone can know who is a regular in the Alonso thread. But I'm still maintaining that at the same time neither is there a guarantee that Massa is unaffected, whatever doctors and he himself believe. Which is really all I said in my previous post if you cared to actually read it without jumping to the reflex of opposing anything that might take the slightest bit away from Alonso.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 01 December 2011 - 12:06.


#11921 kosmos

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 14:44

Fernando is going to receive an award on December, 19. The award is called "Premio Internacional del Deporte".

http://www.interecon...eporte-20111201

I'm pretty sure this means a lot to Fernando, is easy to give awards to athletes when they win titles, but when they don't, often they are forgotten.

#11922 puxanando

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 21:55

Posted Image

#11923 TeamSideways

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 22:07

alonso sits in his car like his head has more angle away from usual position , it looks like his head is relaxed more ?


i repeat my question

#11924 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 22:59

i repeat my question [alonso sits in his car like his head has more angle away from usual position , it looks like his head is relaxed more ?]


I don't know about relaxation, but I read once (sorry, I forgot where, but IIRC a reputable source which now I cannot find) that early on in Alonso's career, I think it was in his first Minardi test (but possibly in lower classes, I forgot), he had to use a car whose seating position was adjusted for a different driver, making him sit a bit deeper and in an unusual position. Being very young, shy, and not wanting to come across as a primadonna who requires minute seating adjustments even though he was a nobody, he decided to live with it for the day. Because it was his first time in this type of car (i.e., an F1, if it was Minardi) it stuck and started to feel right, and so he kept it.

#11925 TeamSideways

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 11:39

I don't know about relaxation, but I read once (sorry, I forgot where, but IIRC a reputable source which now I cannot find) that early on in Alonso's career, I think it was in his first Minardi test (but possibly in lower classes, I forgot), he had to use a car whose seating position was adjusted for a different driver, making him sit a bit deeper and in an unusual position. Being very young, shy, and not wanting to come across as a primadonna who requires minute seating adjustments even though he was a nobody, he decided to live with it for the day. Because it was his first time in this type of car (i.e., an F1, if it was Minardi) it stuck and started to feel right, and so he kept it.

thanks for explaining , since noticing it every time i see him i asked myself why does he sit in a different way than all the 23 drivers ?
and frankly it looks so cool when u are able to drive f1 car in this position like a boss

#11926 AdHoc

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 12:05

Some fun......


:rotfl:

Thanks!

#11927 prty

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 13:22

I don't know about relaxation, but I read once (sorry, I forgot where, but IIRC a reputable source which now I cannot find) that early on in Alonso's career, I think it was in his first Minardi test (but possibly in lower classes, I forgot), he had to use a car whose seating position was adjusted for a different driver, making him sit a bit deeper and in an unusual position. Being very young, shy, and not wanting to come across as a primadonna who requires minute seating adjustments even though he was a nobody, he decided to live with it for the day. Because it was his first time in this type of car (i.e., an F1, if it was Minardi) it stuck and started to feel right, and so he kept it.


It was for the Formula Renault, he was talking when doing the seat mold and didn't realize he had slipped down.

#11928 Bren

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 13:52

Just to add some extra petrol to the 'driver returns different from accident', Mika Häkk came out of a big impact and a coma to be a double world chmapion...
Just saying.

Nano gave us alot this year, always pushing, never giving up (until he says he gives up :) ), producing more than what the car can do.
We have have so much hope for next year.


#11929 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 16:25

It was for the Formula Renault, he was talking when doing the seat mold and didn't realize he had slipped down.


Thanks!

#11930 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 16:44

Just to add some extra petrol to the 'driver returns different from accident', Mika Häkk came out of a big impact and a coma to be a double world chmapion...
Just saying.


True, and just to make sure I'm not being misunderstood, I did not say that Felipe is definitely affected. I guess I should put it this way: IMHO there are no definitives in this.

#11931 puxanando

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 15:43

Have a LOOK :eek: :up:

#11932 prty

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 17:18

Don't know why but that reminded me of this

Posted Image

:lol:

#11933 kosmos

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 10:32

This is the first time I see this pic, I think is old.

Posted Image

pic

#11934 AdHoc

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:12

Nice pic!

Are there some more from this event?

Edited by AdHoc, 05 December 2011 - 12:13.


#11935 AdHoc

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:28

Actually: http://s1232.photobu.....0road safety/

#11936 kosmos

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 11:46

It looks like Fernando won an award.

THE JOHNNY WAKEFIELD TROPHY -- FERNANDO ALONSO

Awarded to the driver setting the fastest race lap of the season on the Silverstone Grand Prix Circuit.


http://www.thechecke...at-brdc-awards/

#11937 AlanWake

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 13:28

It looks like Fernando won an award.

http://www.thechecke...at-brdc-awards/


It is just another meaningless award :cool: , although it is better than nothing.

#11938 AlanWake

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 13:50

Don't know why but that reminded me of this
:lol:


There is no doubt that the person who made Alonso's Wax Statue must be a real Alonso hater or just isn't an artist at all :rotfl:

OT: Except two exceptions: A.Banderas and G.Clooney, the whole Wax Museum of Madrid is completely terrible. See the Madame Tussauds museum in London to see how it is done: http://allworldcars....me-tussauds.jpg

#11939 kosmos

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 06:33

Posted Image


Nothing really new.

Autosport words.

A decade later he's still outperforming his car




I like this quote.

"Yeah, definitely there are some things that you would change in your career, but it's the way it is", he says. "The good thing is that what I said was what I thought, and at the moment it was right.
Sometimes it was [seen as] political, but it was no political for me. It was political for the one who didn't like the truth. So that's OK".


Edited by kosmos, 08 December 2011 - 06:33.


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#11940 AdHoc

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 09:49

What is he talking about at this point?

#11941 kosmos

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 11:42

Autosport says that he is enjoying the paddock life more than before and they ask if he will tackle certain situations differently now. They don't ask anything specific, but obviously they are thinking about 2007. It's not really an interview per se, it's just an article made with some quotes, some of them strangely familiar even if they claim this is an exclusive interview.

#11942 puxanando

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 12:06

"I'm totally confident that this championship will come sooner rather than later, because I'm in the perfect team to do that."


:up:

#11943 showtime

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 12:58

Baldisserri was interviewed this week for The Flying Lap and brought a video about how Ferrari Young Driver Academy works, it was good to see Fernando involved in this. The whole interview is worth a watch but the bit I'm talking about starts at 13.45.



#11944 asmodeus

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 14:42

Nano gave us alot this year, always pushing, never giving up (until he says he gives up :) ), producing more than what the car can do.
We have have so much hope for next year.


Right. Much hope indeed.
But for Alonso to win will be much harder 2012 than what it was 2011, because of Vettel, Button and Hamilton, and also Raikkonen, maybe the quickest driver ever, is here again.

And every team has new cars, built according to the new rules.

#11945 YellowHelmet

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 15:09

Right. Much hope indeed.
But for Alonso to win will be much harder 2012 than what it was 2011, because of Vettel, Button and Hamilton, and also Raikkonen, maybe the quickest driver ever, is here again.

And every team has new cars, built according to the new rules.

i dont understand what you want to say with that?

1) formula1 is not a material-indepedent series. so if the car is good, nothing can stop him
2) none of those drivers is really a threat for alonso, when the circumstances are same for everybody.

#11946 MP422

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 15:18

i dont understand what you want to say with that?

1) formula1 is not a material-indepedent series. so if the car is good, nothing can stop him
2) none of those drivers is really a threat for alonso, when the circumstances are same for everybody.


I'd say Vettel and Hamilton pose a threat to Alonso. I know what he means about Kimi but i doubt the lotus will be a threat to the top four teams.

#11947 spa08

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 15:44

If Massa is still the same driver as he once was then the Ferraris of 07 and 08 were way ahead of the Mclarens. This also makes Kimi an also ran which I don't believe one bit. It is not out of the question that the current cars with their narrow tyres suit Alonso much more than Massa and this is causing the big difference. I feel that if they were teammates in the 07-08 cars there would be nothing between them

#11948 lewymp4

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 17:20

Nano gave us alot this year, always pushing, never giving up (until he says he gives up :) ), producing more than what the car can do.
We have have so much hope for next year.


I'm hoping for a Hamilton championship in 2012, but I would have to admit that Fernando has to be complemented for the effort and drives that he produced this year, with such a troublesome car.


#11949 YellowHelmet

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 18:20

If Massa is still the same driver as he once was then the Ferraris of 07 and 08 were way ahead of the Mclarens. This also makes Kimi an also ran which I don't believe one bit. It is not out of the question that the current cars with their narrow tyres suit Alonso much more than Massa and this is causing the big difference. I feel that if they were teammates in the 07-08 cars there would be nothing between them

even back then, there would be a difference. but the gap would be smaller.


#11950 TheBunk

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 18:42

Autosport says that he is enjoying the paddock life more than before and they ask if he will tackle certain situations differently now. They don't ask anything specific, but obviously they are thinking about 2007. It's not really an interview per se, it's just an article made with some quotes, some of them strangely familiar even if they claim this is an exclusive interview.


Yeah, a shame Autosport stooped so low. Anyway, nice quotes from Alonso but nothing we didnt already know. Hes confident, relaxed, happy and had truly epic drives in a car that wasnt worth the effort. Schumacheresque. Im very happy this guy drives for Ferrari. I hope well see Vettel next to him in the future.