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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#12201 f1rookie

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 10:13

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Article and more pics: http://www.formula1o...umitschewa.html

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#12202 Eden

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 10:26

^^ Woha, nice to see ALonso will be that young also in 2036! :stoned:

Some nice words from Todt......



Source


Too bad one of the first positive comments coming from him after seemingly getting over from Alonso showing him the finger in 2001, is more like a way to defend Felipe rather than saying something positive about Alonso.. I guess saying Massa is "only" 0.3 seconds off from Alonso is a big big compliment towards Felipe.

Edited by Eden, 29 December 2011 - 10:28.


#12203 TheBunk

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 11:00

^^ Woha, nice to see ALonso will be that young also in 2036! :stoned:



Too bad one of the first positive comments coming from him after seemingly getting over from Alonso showing him the finger in 2001, is more like a way to defend Felipe rather than saying something positive about Alonso.. I guess saying Massa is "only" 0.3 seconds off from Alonso is a big big compliment towards Felipe.



or....todts son is massas manager.

#12204 Eden

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 11:02

That too ;)

#12205 gillesthegenius

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 12:26

yeah, and maybe he should become a monk while he's at it..... :rolleyes:


:lol: :up:

#12206 kosmos

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 13:09

Alonso says Schumacher still the benchmark


When asked, by TotalRace, which F1 driver he would most like to challenge in any form of race, Alonso did not hesitate in his response, “I would choose Michael Schumacher, who will always be a champion for all of us, because we respect a a driver who was seven times world champion. He is a driver who has nothing more to prove and was always very fast.”

Even though 42 year old Schumacher has not yet scored a podium finish since returning to F1 in 2010, Alonso believes that the Mercedes GP car has done little to help the German in his comeback.

“We know that in Formula 1, the car is the most important part and we know that Mercedes did not have a very good year. But I believe that if they have a competitive car, capable of winning races, both [Nico] Rosberg and Michael can be favorites. We have to respect them,” said Alonso.


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#12207 Watkins74

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 13:57

^
Fernando is becoming quite the diplomat, he seems to have a kind word for everyone. :cool:

#12208 cardin

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 14:32

How dare he say that. Alonso is much better than Massa.


Because it's a fact ? BTW, you shouldn't post that much, you don't have many interesting things to say.

#12209 Henrytheeigth

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 15:36

Yesterday, Thursday my time, Alonso's model arrived -

Posted Image

First time I got a model in the same year it raced lol :D

#12210 TeamSideways

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 16:01

Yesterday, Thursday my time, Alonso's model arrived -

Posted Image

First time I got a model in the same year it raced lol :D

great , always admired car models

#12211 AdHoc

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 16:47

Hot Wheels though... well, as long as you enjoy it :)

Edited by AdHoc, 04 January 2012 - 16:48.


#12212 jrg19

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 00:27

Yesterday, Thursday my time, Alonso's model arrived -

Posted Image

First time I got a model in the same year it raced lol :D


Do you know why Ferrari dont have a deal with Minichamps who IMO do the best diecast models of F1 cars?

#12213 Henrytheeigth

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 12:55

Nope don't know, and I got hotwheels and minichamps, and all are cool. :)

#12214 puxanando

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 12:21

reading in twitter that the relation Fernando/Pat Fry is fantastic....... :)

#12215 kosmos

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 15:08

reading in twitter that the relation Fernando/Pat Fry is fantastic....... :)


Fry is in Ferrari for a reason, even if Fernando denies it, I'm pretty sure that he pulled the strings for Fry. :smoking:

#12216 prty

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 20:39

This provides some hilarious reading that had to post here, like:

ban on team orders that was binned at the end of 2010 in the wake of the first occasion on which it was seriously tested


really? :lol:

or:

Soon, he [Trulli] fell out with Briatore and was out of the team before the end of the season, the consequence of his performances being too good


surely, being outside the points while Alonso was fighting for podiums in the last few races has nothing to do with it!

if that's what it takes to be an Autosport journo, I want to be one too!

#12217 jj2728

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 21:12

Do you know why Ferrari dont have a deal with Minichamps who IMO do the best diecast models of F1 cars?


Mattel bought the rights to make the Ferrari diecasts back in 1999 and every single one of them is junk.
The last Minichamps F1 Ferraris were the 1997s IIRC.


#12218 Clatter

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 22:16

This provides some hilarious reading that had to post here, like:



really? :lol:

or:



surely, being outside the points while Alonso was fighting for podiums in the last few races has nothing to do with it!

if that's what it takes to be an Autosport journo, I want to be one too!


As that's not true what other reason do you think it might be?

#12219 speng

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 22:41

Fry is in Ferrari for a reason, even if Fernando denies it, I'm pretty sure that he pulled the strings for Fry. :smoking:

Privy to some insider information or just speculation ?

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#12220 prty

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 22:57

As that's not true what other reason do you think it might be?


From the last 4 races together:

Germany: 3rd, Trulli 11th
Hungary: 3rd, Trulli retired, but don't remember from which position, but from Atlas: "Team-mate Jarno Trulli endured a miserable race suffering severe understeer due to his grained Michelin tyres"
Belgium: Retired from the lead with an engine failure, Trulli 9th
Monza: Spun after being overtaken for the last podium position, Trulli 10th

Don't worry, the journo forgot (or skipped) too it seems. What reason do you think it might be? :D

Edited by prty, 06 January 2012 - 23:06.


#12221 BillBald

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 01:21

This provides some hilarious reading that had to post here, like:



really? :lol:

or:



surely, being outside the points while Alonso was fighting for podiums in the last few races has nothing to do with it!

if that's what it takes to be an Autosport journo, I want to be one too!


You are absolutely correct. Trulli was not fired at the end of the season, but shortly after winning at Monaco.

It seems more reasonable to suppose that his poor performances in the later races were the result of falling out of favour with Flavio, since they couldn't have been the cause.




#12222 Devero

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 03:18

You are absolutely correct. Trulli was not fired at the end of the season, but shortly after winning at Monaco.

It seems more reasonable to suppose that his poor performances in the later races were the result of falling out of favour with Flavio, since they couldn't have been the cause.


Same old...

Please advise me on who Trulli fell out with in 2005 Toyota, which was exactly the next season after 2004 with Renault? Jarno started the season brillantly but then gradually faded as the year went and somehow managed to finish the season behind his new teammate Ralf in the standings whereas Schumi Jr was nowhere near Trulli in the beginning.

Edited by Devero, 07 January 2012 - 03:20.


#12223 BillBald

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 04:18

Same old...

Please advise me on who Trulli fell out with in 2005 Toyota, which was exactly the next season after 2004 with Renault? Jarno started the season brillantly but then gradually faded as the year went and somehow managed to finish the season behind his new teammate Ralf in the standings whereas Schumi Jr was nowhere near Trulli in the beginning.


Maybe Trulli would also have faded in 2004, but Flavio wasn't prepared to wait and see...



#12224 xlr8

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 05:15

I wasn't a big supporter of Fernanado when he was driving for reno. But since he joined Ferrari my view about him changed. His determination, ability to lead a team, his driving, respect towards his team is something else. In 2010, when he lost the WDC due to Ferrari's cockup he never blamed the team especially not infront of media. Maybe that is why we Tifosi's like u so much. Of course no body going to take Gilles and Schumi's place but u already have a special place in our heart.

So good luck for 2012 Fernando. You got the support of F1's biggest fan base behind you and we are eagerly waiting to see you as our 16th WDC.

Edited by xlr8, 07 January 2012 - 05:40.


#12225 ArtShelley

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 08:39

In 2010, when he lost the WDC due to Ferrari's cockup he never blamed the team


One race doesn't make or break a WDC. Rather I think the Ferrari cock up at Abu Dhabi as well as a messy first half season by Alonso which included rookie errors such as jump start etc all contributed to him losing the WDC.

#12226 kosmos

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 09:59

Any mistake that he did in the first half was compensated by a tremendous driving perfomance in the second half of the year, you can say that when Alonso was on top form, Ferrari was the one who failed, but this is a team sport, so it's not Alonso's fault or Ferrari's fault alone, is 50/50.

#12227 YellowHelmet

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 11:04

This is the Alonso-thread and not the Trulli-thread, but anyway:

Trulli was already flirting with Toyota for several months before he and Renault ended the relationship during the season, which gave Trulli the opportunity to race earlier than expected for Toyota.
and that gracious behavior by Renault had two consequences.
1. alonso was taken the chance to fight till the end against his teammate for the 4th position in the championship and so was taken the chance to prove that he can beat Trulli (over a season) again as he did in 2003.
2. Trulli was praised as the guy who was after 15 out of 18 races in front of alonso in the standings.

There are strong hints that Trulli wanted to brake the contract with Renault as long as he was still in front of Alonso, just to have that honour in his Palmarès.

#12228 prty

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 12:21

You are absolutely correct. Trulli was not fired at the end of the season, but shortly after winning at Monaco.

It seems more reasonable to suppose that his poor performances in the later races were the result of falling out of favour with Flavio, since they couldn't have been the cause.


- Trulli was sacked because he was too good.
- No, it is because in the last races he was outside the points while Alonso was fighting for podiums
- That isn't true
- It is, see the evidence.
- OK, then what happened is that he started to get bad results because he was too good.

Talk about desperately trying to shove an opinion into the facts :lol:


#12229 bsoares

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 12:48

This is the Alonso-thread and not the Trulli-thread, but anyway:

Trulli was already flirting with Toyota for several months before he and Renault ended the relationship during the season, which gave Trulli the opportunity to race earlier than expected for Toyota.
and that gracious behavior by Renault had two consequences.
1. alonso was taken the chance to fight till the end against his teammate for the 4th position in the championship and so was taken the chance to prove that he can beat Trulli (over a season) again as he did in 2003.
2. Trulli was praised as the guy who was after 15 out of 18 races in front of alonso in the standings.

There are strong hints that Trulli wanted to brake the contract with Renault as long as he was still in front of Alonso, just to have that honour in his Palmarès.


Please, could you point those "strong hints"?

#12230 olliek88

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 12:55

Yesterday, Thursday my time, Alonso's model arrived -

Posted Image

First time I got a model in the same year it raced lol :D


Love it!

I've really started getting into die cast models recently and purchased my first one before Xmas (Ant Davisdon's SA07). What Scale is that? 1:18 or 1:43? looks pretty smart.

#12231 1george

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 13:19

- Trulli was sacked because he was too good.
- No, it is because in the last races he was outside the points while Alonso was fighting for podiums
- That isn't true
- It is, see the evidence.
- OK, then what happened is that he started to get bad results because he was too good.

Talk about desperately trying to shove an opinion into the facts :lol:


Oh yeah!

Trulli: 15 years career, 252 starts, 1 win, 11 podiums, 246,5 points, 4 poles and fastest lap. Drives for Caterham.
Alonso: 11 years career (1 as test driver included), 177 starts, 27 wins, 73 podiums, 1.086 points, 20 poles, 19 fastest laps, 2 WDC and nearly another two. Drives for Ferrari.

It's obvious that Trulli is THE driver. Nuvolari, Fangio, Clark, Senna and Schumacher are just taxi-drivers. Unbeleivable that nobody in Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari see the so good driver that Trulli is. Maybe because is too good to drive for them.

Trulli was sacked of Renault because Flavio saw the technical and driving abilities and the way to work through the engineers of both drivers and took a decison, maybe not very sensible but he was the boss. Two World champs demonstrated that Flavio was right. As simple as that.

#12232 puxanando

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 14:11

Alonso 2011 :smoking:

#12233 BillBald

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 14:55

- Trulli was sacked because he was too good.
- No, it is because in the last races he was outside the points while Alonso was fighting for podiums
- That isn't true
- It is, see the evidence.
- OK, then what happened is that he started to get bad results because he was too good.

Talk about desperately trying to shove an opinion into the facts :lol:


Talk about desperately trying to misrepresent other people's opinions...



#12234 YellowHelmet

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 14:57

Alonso 2011 :smoking:

wonderful
thank you very much :up:

#12235 BillBald

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 14:59

Oh yeah!

Trulli: 15 years career, 252 starts, 1 win, 11 podiums, 246,5 points, 4 poles and fastest lap. Drives for Caterham.
Alonso: 11 years career (1 as test driver included), 177 starts, 27 wins, 73 podiums, 1.086 points, 20 poles, 19 fastest laps, 2 WDC and nearly another two. Drives for Ferrari.

It's obvious that Trulli is THE driver. Nuvolari, Fangio, Clark, Senna and Schumacher are just taxi-drivers. Unbeleivable that nobody in Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari see the so good driver that Trulli is. Maybe because is too good to drive for them.

Trulli was sacked of Renault because Flavio saw the technical and driving abilities and the way to work through the engineers of both drivers and took a decison, maybe not very sensible but he was the boss. Two World champs demonstrated that Flavio was right. As simple as that.


Nobody is saying that. I'm not even saying that Flavio made a mistake in getting rid of Trulli.

I would just like people to stop pretending that Alonso beat Trulli fair and square in both years they were together, because in the 2nd year, he got a lot of help.




#12236 YellowHelmet

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 15:07

Nobody is saying that. I'm not even saying that Flavio made a mistake in getting rid of Trulli.
I would just like people to stop pretending that Alonso beat Trulli fair and square in both years they were together, because in the 2nd year, he got a lot of help.

absolutely not.
even the ending of the contract of trulli with renault during the season (when alonso was just 1 point behind, after once in a season already being 15 points behind after USA!) was just in favour of Trulli, as already explained in my post #12235 on page 306.

Edited by YellowHelmet, 07 January 2012 - 15:12.


#12237 BillBald

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 15:40

This is the Alonso-thread and not the Trulli-thread, but anyway:

Trulli was already flirting with Toyota for several months before he and Renault ended the relationship during the season, which gave Trulli the opportunity to race earlier than expected for Toyota.
and that gracious behavior by Renault had two consequences.
1. alonso was taken the chance to fight till the end against his teammate for the 4th position in the championship and so was taken the chance to prove that he can beat Trulli (over a season) again as he did in 2003.
2. Trulli was praised as the guy who was after 15 out of 18 races in front of alonso in the standings.

There are strong hints that Trulli wanted to brake the contract with Renault as long as he was still in front of Alonso, just to have that honour in his Palmarès.


Either you have a lot of insider knowledge that is not available to the rest of us, or you are just making all this up.

I wonder which it is?

I find it hard to believe that Trulli would want to leave a team which was so obviously on the way up, unless it was made very clear that he was not wanted or would not receive equal treatment.

Edited by BillBald, 07 January 2012 - 15:40.


#12238 Eden

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 15:50

Nobody is saying that. I'm not even saying that Flavio made a mistake in getting rid of Trulli.

I would just like people to stop pretending that Alonso beat Trulli fair and square in both years they were together, because in the 2nd year, he got a lot of help.


"A lot of help"? You are just backing that up with assumptions as well unless you are an insider.

I however prefeer to look at facts. And facts say Alonso beat Trulli during his first year, and during the second Trulli matched Alonso, having Alonso 2 more retirements.

IMO the beat was pretty clear.

#12239 YellowHelmet

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 15:59

Either you have a lot of insider knowledge that is not available to the rest of us, or you are just making all this up.

I wonder which it is?

I find it hard to believe that Trulli would want to leave a team which was so obviously on the way up, unless it was made very clear that he was not wanted or would not receive equal treatment.

if you have the chance go and look in some archives about the year 2004.
already in april and may first rumours came about trulli and toyota, which at that time were the team who were able to spend more money into formula1 than any other team.
so they looked very very promising (long term) and they were looking for a top driver.
trulli made the wrong choice (looking retrospectively)


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#12240 1george

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 16:44

I would just like people to stop pretending that Alonso beat Trulli fair and square in both years they were together, because in the 2nd year, he got a lot of help.


Maybe I am wrong but after following this sport from some decades, I have the feeling that terms 'fair and square' are more suitable to a meeting between all of us having fun in a kart track or a summer camp holidays than the Formula One itself.

This is, probably, the most competitive sport in the world. When you arrive to a team, the first thing that you have to do is beat your team-mate, be consistenly faster and better than him, then you gain a position into the team that allows to find better solutions with the engineers to improve the car, you have to demonstrate that you way to work is better and more efficient than your team-mate's one. So the team gives the whole attention to you, obviously, because you demonstrate that you are going to get better results.

So in 1985, Senna didn't beat fair and square Dumfries at Lotus. Senna had the whole team working in his car and Dumfries has two mechanics working on his Lotus. Nobody told me, I was watching it.


#12241 Watkins74

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 17:10

Maybe I am wrong but after following this sport from some decades, I have the feeling that terms 'fair and square' are more suitable to a meeting between all of us having fun in a kart track or a summer camp holidays than the Formula One itself.

This is, probably, the most competitive sport in the world. When you arrive to a team, the first thing that you have to do is beat your team-mate, be consistenly faster and better than him, then you gain a position into the team that allows to find better solutions with the engineers to improve the car, you have to demonstrate that you way to work is better and more efficient than your team-mate's one. So the team gives the whole attention to you, obviously, because you demonstrate that you are going to get better results.

So in 1985, Senna didn't beat fair and square Dumfries at Lotus. Senna had the whole team working in his car and Dumfries has two mechanics working on his Lotus. Nobody told me, I was watching it.

:up:
You are not wrong, you totally understand how F1 works.

#12242 BillBald

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 17:25

Maybe I am wrong but after following this sport from some decades, I have the feeling that terms 'fair and square' are more suitable to a meeting between all of us having fun in a kart track or a summer camp holidays than the Formula One itself.

This is, probably, the most competitive sport in the world. When you arrive to a team, the first thing that you have to do is beat your team-mate, be consistenly faster and better than him, then you gain a position into the team that allows to find better solutions with the engineers to improve the car, you have to demonstrate that you way to work is better and more efficient than your team-mate's one. So the team gives the whole attention to you, obviously, because you demonstrate that you are going to get better results.

So in 1985, Senna didn't beat fair and square Dumfries at Lotus. Senna had the whole team working in his car and Dumfries has two mechanics working on his Lotus. Nobody told me, I was watching it.


I don't disagree with what you are saying here.

It's very reasonable for a team to back the driver who gets the best results. But some team managers seem inclined to give both drivers a chance to show what they can do, others seem to quickly decide which driver is destined to be no. 2, and if he doesn't fulfil that role, he becomes a problem.

Flavio Briatore seems to me to fall into the latter category. He chose Schumi, he chose Alonso as his no. 1 drivers. Not saying those were bad decisions, just that drivers who too often got their nose in front of his first choice tended to lose their drive, I'm talking about Brundle and Trulli.

It shouldn't be the end of the world for Alonso fans that, early in his career, he was matched or beaten by Trulli. These things happen, it's the denial which keeps the wound from healing.



#12243 PoleMan

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 19:35

I don't disagree with what you are saying here.

It's very reasonable for a team to back the driver who gets the best results. But some team managers seem inclined to give both drivers a chance to show what they can do, others seem to quickly decide which driver is destined to be no. 2, and if he doesn't fulfil that role, he becomes a problem.

Flavio Briatore seems to me to fall into the latter category. He chose Schumi, he chose Alonso as his no. 1 drivers. Not saying those were bad decisions, just that drivers who too often got their nose in front of his first choice tended to lose their drive, I'm talking about Brundle and Trulli.

It shouldn't be the end of the world for Alonso fans that, early in his career, he was matched or beaten by Trulli. These things happen, it's the denial which keeps the wound from healing.

I think what you confuse as favoritism is Briatore's eye for talent. He may have come from the fashion industry, but his keen eye was able to spot driving talent and pounce on it before others could work out just how special they were. Schumacher and Alonso are and will become (respectively) legendary names in the pinnacle of motorsport. Not because they were in need of "a lot of help" as you wrote earlier, but because they were CONSISTENTLY better than most of the field over a sustained period. Everyone gets beaten, but champions never quit! Alonso is routinely named by Team Prinicpals, fellow F1 drivers and pundits as the most complete driver in the sport. Some posters' feeble attempts to disparage him and deny how highly he is rated , is what prevents these concepts from inhabiting their grey matter.

#12244 garoidb

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 20:23

Maybe I am wrong but after following this sport from some decades, I have the feeling that terms 'fair and square' are more suitable to a meeting between all of us having fun in a kart track or a summer camp holidays than the Formula One itself.

This is, probably, the most competitive sport in the world. When you arrive to a team, the first thing that you have to do is beat your team-mate, be consistenly faster and better than him, then you gain a position into the team that allows to find better solutions with the engineers to improve the car, you have to demonstrate that you way to work is better and more efficient than your team-mate's one. So the team gives the whole attention to you, obviously, because you demonstrate that you are going to get better results.

So in 1985, Senna didn't beat fair and square Dumfries at Lotus. Senna had the whole team working in his car and Dumfries has two mechanics working on his Lotus. Nobody told me, I was watching it.


I fully agree (except that it was 1986 for Johnny Dumfries - in 1985 Elio DeAngelis was Senna's team mate).

Perhaps what Flavio can see is that extra drive that MS and FA seem to have. I find it hard to believe he is a great judge of driving ability, apart from looking at the stopwatch.

#12245 BillBald

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 20:37

I think what you confuse as favoritism is Briatore's eye for talent. He may have come from the fashion industry, but his keen eye was able to spot driving talent and pounce on it before others could work out just how special they were. Schumacher and Alonso are and will become (respectively) legendary names in the pinnacle of motorsport. Not because they were in need of "a lot of help" as you wrote earlier, but because they were CONSISTENTLY better than most of the field over a sustained period. Everyone gets beaten, but champions never quit! Alonso is routinely named by Team Prinicpals, fellow F1 drivers and pundits as the most complete driver in the sport. Some posters' feeble attempts to disparage him and deny how highly he is rated , is what prevents these concepts from inhabiting their grey matter.


I wrote no such thing. My point is that Flavio gave them that help, not that they necessarily needed it.

And I never accused Flavio of favoritism, or denied that he had an eye for talent. He's been a successful team manager, he must have been doing something right.

There are many people on this forum who think that it's a mistake to try to have 2 equal drivers. If it's a mistake, it's one which Flavio never made.



#12246 PoleMan

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 20:52

I wrote no such thing. My point is that Flavio gave them that help, not that they necessarily needed it.

And I never accused Flavio of favoritism, or denied that he had an eye for talent. He's been a successful team manager, he must have been doing something right.

There are many people on this forum who think that it's a mistake to try to have 2 equal drivers. If it's a mistake, it's one which Flavio never made.


That is strictly true...but only for the fact that I referenced Michael AND Alonso, whereas you only mentioned Fernando. Here is a verbatim quote from you. Are you denying you wrote it, or suggesting that it has some "other" interpretation? :confused:

BILLBALD WROTE THIS!!!
"I would just like people to stop pretending that Alonso beat Trulli fair and square in both years they were together, because in the 2nd year, he got a lot of help."

#12247 jj2728

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 21:22

Maybe I am wrong but after following this sport from some decades, I have the feeling that terms 'fair and square' are more suitable to a meeting between all of us having fun in a kart track or a summer camp holidays than the Formula One itself.

This is, probably, the most competitive sport in the world. When you arrive to a team, the first thing that you have to do is beat your team-mate, be consistenly faster and better than him, then you gain a position into the team that allows to find better solutions with the engineers to improve the car, you have to demonstrate that you way to work is better and more efficient than your team-mate's one. So the team gives the whole attention to you, obviously, because you demonstrate that you are going to get better results.

So in 1985, Senna didn't beat fair and square Dumfries at Lotus. Senna had the whole team working in his car and Dumfries has two mechanics working on his Lotus. Nobody told me, I was watching it.



Good point, but not always true:

Scheckter/Villenueve 1979
Regazzoni/Lauda 1974/75
Andretti/Peterson 1978
Stewart/Cevert 1971 thru 1973
Rindt/Hill 1969


#12248 BillBald

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 21:50

That is strictly true...but only for the fact that I referenced Michael AND Alonso, whereas you only mentioned Fernando. Here is a verbatim quote from you. Are you denying you wrote it, or suggesting that it has some "other" interpretation? :confused:

BILLBALD WROTE THIS!!!
"I would just like people to stop pretending that Alonso beat Trulli fair and square in both years they were together, because in the 2nd year, he got a lot of help."


I wrote that Alonso got a lot of help. You turned that into "he needed a lot of help".

The fact is that we don't know how the season would have turned out if Flavio had allowed them to fight it out on equal terms. I'm not excluding the possibility that Alonso could have come out on top anyway. But it looks as though Flavio might have had his doubts.

By telling Trulli that his services were no longer required, Flavio got the result that I'm sure he was looking for. Trulli's confidence was undermined and his relationship with the team and specifically his engineers could no longer have been the same.

Edited by BillBald, 07 January 2012 - 21:51.


#12249 PoleMan

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 23:07

I wrote that Alonso got a lot of help. You turned that into "he needed a lot of help".

The fact is that we don't know how the season would have turned out if Flavio had allowed them to fight it out on equal terms. I'm not excluding the possibility that Alonso could have come out on top anyway. But it looks as though Flavio might have had his doubts.

By telling Trulli that his services were no longer required, Flavio got the result that I'm sure he was looking for. Trulli's confidence was undermined and his relationship with the team and specifically his engineers could no longer have been the same.

You keep talking as if you have some knowledge about Jarno being mistreated. You don't know that Alonso was being favored, you just want the rest of us to BELIEVE that. What we DO KNOW is that Briatore was overjoyed when Jarno took his maiden victory at Monaco in 2004. But he became increasingly disenchanted and vocal about Jarno "underperforming" and complaining about the Renault Team.

Here is a contemporaneous posting from an F1 forum at the time, that pretty much sums it up:


"Jarno failed to score a single point in the last 5 GP's, although he had a very impressive first half of the season, but his downfall came during the French GP, when he 'forgot' to close the door on Rubens."

Renault were fighting for 2nd place in the WCC, which they had lost to BAR. Trulli was firing blanks when the team needed him to deliver on track. Flavio, as team principal, was certainly unhappy with the way things were going, but when Jarno let Rubens by on the next t last corner in France...THAT. WAS. IT!!! It was a fit of pique from Flavio, but it had been building. Jarno was not outperforming Alonso at that time. Far from it. Flavio loves to WIN, far more than he wants to UNDERMINE any driver, as you postulate. Jarno was underperforming and got the sack. He and Briatore even kissed and made up afterwards. Drivers getting sacked after losing the plot has happened throughout history, so no need for your grand conspiracy theory of Flavio giving "a lot of help" to Alonso. Fernando was delivering and Trulli wasn't, but France is what cooked his goose.;)


Edited by PoleMan, 07 January 2012 - 23:09.


#12250 Devero

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 23:22

Maybe Trulli would also have faded in 2004, but Flavio wasn't prepared to wait and see...


Well, consider another point. As Trulli`s replacement Fisico was chosen. The guy at the time seemed clearly at least on par with Jarno if not better. Fisi had excelled in midfield cars, beat all his teammates and famously won in Brasil 2003 while having a dog of a car at his disposal.
And remarkably, Fisi was not on the contract with Briatore`s FFBB neither prior signing with Renault for 2005 not after. It all ended in 2001 when Flavio preferred not to take Renault`s option on Fisi for 2002 and got Trulli from Jordan insetad as a cheaper option. What an irony ;)

Edited by Devero, 08 January 2012 - 00:26.