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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#12501 FTATRWeSaluteYou

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 04:08

Im looking forward to a showdown between F1's two best drivers Alonso and Vettel. Hopefully with Webber Schumacher and Raikkonen too

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#12502 puxanando

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 10:51

Fernando en Lanzarote!

#12503 IceSkyrim

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 14:08

Oh what a hard life it is to be a F1 driver. :o

Just the other day they were working out at the mountain tops: low temperature and atm pressure.

Now, they are doing a Lost, exercizing at hot temperature and atm pressure.

Well... it will make a pleasant average working environment :p

Edited by IceSkyrim, 26 January 2012 - 14:11.


#12504 showtime

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 14:15

Oh what a hard life it is to be a F1 driver. :o

Just the other day they were working out at the mountain tops: low temperature and atm pressure.

Now, they are doing a Lost, exercizing at hot temperature and atm pressure.

Well... it will make a pleasant average working environment :p


Max. temperature in Lanzarote for this week is 23ºC, perfect spring weather I would say.

#12505 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 16:30

Alonso & Massa arriving at Lanzarote!

PICS!


Despite the talk about absolute privacy in Club La Santa, today we had a bunch of guys taking a course at the surf school in Famara (near La Santa), who are staying at the club and said that they had seen the Ferrari team on the premises. Maybe I should go to the club's disco tonight and see if I can have a beer with Fernando :smoking:

#12506 ForeverF1

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 22:26

Posts have been removed. This thread is about Fernando Alonso, not another Lewis Hamilton thread. Please stay on topic.

#12507 RedOne

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 23:38

Fernando en Lanzarote!


Thanks I'm just trying to buy time now until the car launch and tests this helps.

#12508 Rikhart

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 23:47

How can people still assume this guy is top tier in f1? I think ever since leaving the mostly illegal renault team of briatore, he has been pretty average.

#12509 jmkaos

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 23:55

How can people still assume this guy is top tier in f1? I think ever since leaving the mostly illegal renault team of briatore, he has been pretty average.


If every driver could be as pretty average as 'this guy' I'd definitely wish there were more than 20 races to enjoy each year.

#12510 ARENA

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 23:59

How can people still assume this guy is top tier in f1? I think ever since leaving the mostly illegal renault team of briatore, he has been pretty average.


Cool story, bro !

#12511 Tifosi4ever

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 00:03

How can people still assume this guy is top tier in f1? I think ever since leaving the mostly illegal renault team of briatore, he has been pretty average.


Indeed, losing in the final race of 2010 to a guy in a car far superior is pretty average. Beating faster cars in both years at Ferrari is again pretty average. In fact, short of actually lapping every other car in every race would obviously be pretty average, then again, that would mean that the car was much better. Even then, SV didn't manage that, so it would obviously mean that the Ferrari wasn't just much better, it would mean that it would have to be a tardis. So, once Ferrari design a Tardis, you will admit that Alonso is top tier, but only because Ferrari had time lord abilities.

:)


#12512 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 00:05

How can people still assume this guy is top tier in f1? I think ever since leaving the mostly illegal renault team of briatore, he has been pretty average.


Because he is, and is arguably the best on the grid. Any of the Team Principals of any of the current teams will tell you the same. 2010 was most certainly above average year having lost the WDC by 4 points and that was after Renault. So your claim already holds no water IMHO. Yep last year wasn't great but neither was the car. Any who holds an objective opinion knows Fernando is a top tier driver.

#12513 jrg19

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 00:13

How can people still assume this guy is top tier in f1? I think ever since leaving the mostly illegal renault team of briatore, he has been pretty average.


poor comment :down:

Im a massive Hamilton fan and obviously think he's a excellent driver but when I'm asked by people at work or whatever i always say Alonso is probably the best driver because i honestly think he's the standout driver of this generation.

Edited by jrg19, 27 January 2012 - 00:17.


#12514 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 00:14

How can people still assume this guy is top tier in f1? I think ever since leaving the mostly illegal renault team of briatore, he has been pretty average.


I'd be interested in learning a bit more about your reasons for reaching the conclusion that Fernando Alonso is "pretty average". I hope you're willing to share your train of thought with us, give us all something to ponder.

#12515 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 00:21

poor comment :down:

Im a massive Hamilton fan and obviously think he's a excellent driver but when I'm asked by people at work or whatever i always say Alonso is probably the best driver because i honestly think he's the standout driver of this generation.

Thanks mate for the class. I believe Fernando, Lewis & Seb are the top 3 currently. But either way without a doubt Fernando is "top tier". It could be argued he isn't the best, or is he but as stated before I believe anyone who is objective/fair knows this. :up:


I'd be interested in learning a bit more about your reasons for reaching the conclusion that Fernando Alonso is "pretty average". I hope you're willing to share your train of thought with us, give us all something to ponder.

The poster won't in all likelihood.

#12516 as65p

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 00:21

Come on folks, be better than to fall for that.

#12517 fabr68

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 01:17

How can people still assume this guy is top tier in f1? I think ever since leaving the mostly illegal renault team of briatore, he has been pretty average.


Really come on?

If you average the amount of points both Alonso and Hamilton got in Mclaren, then you must conclude they are both pretty average.

#12518 Manneken3000

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 02:46

How can people still assume this guy is top tier in f1? I think ever since leaving the mostly illegal renault team of briatore, he has been pretty average.

:p :lol: :rotfl:

#12519 Rikhart

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 10:08

I'd be interested in learning a bit more about your reasons for reaching the conclusion that Fernando Alonso is "pretty average". I hope you're willing to share your train of thought with us, give us all something to ponder.


I´m mainly talking about results. He had it pretty hard, and got beaten, by a newcomer to the series in mclaren, and at ferrari has he really stood out? Ofc he didnt really have the best car, but at times very quick depending on tracks, but I really dont see him extracting anything more than could be expected from the car. Nor has he managed to improve the car in any significant way in two years...

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#12520 Fontainebleau

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 10:30

How can people still assume this guy is top tier in f1? I think ever since leaving the mostly illegal renault team of briatore, he has been pretty average.

Hint: it has something to do with being a bit knowledgeable about F1...  ;)

#12521 RockyRaccoon

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 12:17

I´m mainly talking about results. He had it pretty hard, and got beaten, by a newcomer to the series in mclaren, and at ferrari has he really stood out? Ofc he didnt really have the best car, but at times very quick depending on tracks, but I really dont see him extracting anything more than could be expected from the car. Nor has he managed to improve the car in any significant way in two years...


Thanks for your reply but as a fan I look beyond results and I'll share my reasons for believing Alonso is well above average.

2007: A disappointing year by all accounts and I always see it as a huge missed opportunity. Underperformed at Bahrain, Canada and Turkey in particular with a silly error at Spain. I'll forgive Fuji but it was a devestating blow. He let the pressure of the situation get to him in Hungary but his drives at Malaysia, Monaco, Nurburgribg, Silverstone, Spa and Monza were anything but average. Overall less consistent than before but when he was on it he was electric and when off form still better than most.

2008: Back to an uncompetitive Renault but put in some real spirited drives at the start of the season. Got frustrated as the season progressed and began overdriving and taking strategic gambles which cost a lot of points. Was clearly taking an all or nothing attitude. When the car improved the old consistently brilliant Alonso of old reappeared. Hungary, Italy, Singapore, China and Brazil were all brilliant drives with Japan being particularly fantastic. He showed brilliance at Silverstone on a rubbish strategy too.

2009: The car was dog awful but again he showed flashes of brilliance. He was on for a nice result at Spa when his wheel fell off and was electric at both Monza and Singapore. Pole at Hungary although admittedly on fumes. Some great overtakes through the year. Very very few people could have scored 26 points in that car. The team was demotivated, he was demotivated and it's a terrible year to judge anyone's talent by.

2010: Made a few errors in the first half of the season which are exaggerated by most. Perfect start at Bahrain, spun in turn 1 at Aus but caught his teammate back up from last place in 15 laps. Malaysia nursed an awful clutch issue all race while matching Massa's pace, this race is always overlooked. China jump start was below average. At Monaco he cracked his chassis in a fairly low speed impact but got back to 6th place. He was going so well he actually triggered the first round of stops. Stupidly unlucky to crack the chassis IMO. The car dropped off mid season and then when it picked up he drove great at Canada only to be held up on an in lap and then again later in the race. Suffered stupidly bad luck at Valencia and to an extent Silverstone. After that he was pure brilliance everywhere except Spa. Can't see how that was average.

2011: I don't really need to go into detail here, every race was above average with some extraordinary races and quali sessions.

Just to give the results some context and try to explain why we think Alonso is anything but average. You only need to look at the gulf to his teammate to understand how he drives the car consistently to the limit every race, particularly in 2011 and when he underperforms in one race it is notes. The incredibly high benchmark and expectation is the sign of a great driver.

Sorry for any spelling/grammar errors, typing from my phone.

Edited by RockyRaccoon, 27 January 2012 - 12:21.


#12522 YellowHelmet

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 12:45

I´m mainly talking about results. He had it pretty hard, and got beaten, by a newcomer to the series in mclaren,

alonso beated hamilton 10:7 in races although having mclaren racing against him.
dont know what you want to say.

#12523 robefc

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 12:59

I´m mainly talking about results. He had it pretty hard, and got beaten, by a newcomer to the series in mclaren, and at ferrari has he really stood out? Ofc he didnt really have the best car, but at times very quick depending on tracks, but I really dont see him extracting anything more than could be expected from the car. Nor has he managed to improve the car in any significant way in two years...


How are you assessing your expectations of how much can be expected from the car?


#12524 MichaelPM

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 13:15

How are you assessing your expectations of how much can be expected from the car?

I believe it goes a little something like this:


#12525 xlr8

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 14:40

I´m mainly talking about results. He had it pretty hard, and got beaten, by a newcomer to the series in mclaren, and at ferrari has he really stood out? Ofc he didnt really have the best car, but at times very quick depending on tracks, but I really dont see him extracting anything more than could be expected from the car. Nor has he managed to improve the car in any significant way in two years...


Could you please tell me by how many points he got beaten?

Edited by xlr8, 27 January 2012 - 14:46.


#12526 hammibal

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 14:55

Yes it was , let's face it , Vettel only won in 2010 because Ferrari messed up in the last race , and for Vettel the pressure was tremendous , especially at Singapore when he was chasing Fernando for pretty much from start to finish and you can see how the pressure was so big on Vettel that when they pitted ( they did it almost together ) , Vettel almost stalled the car because he forgot to put it in first gear and try to get away in second gear and you can hear the engine almost stalling losing precious seconds , he probably would have won that race if it wasn't for that mistake

Vettel finished the season very impressively i didn't notice him feeling the pressure at all

Alonso :up: The only guy capable to stop Vettel i think.

Probably

Im looking forward to a showdown between F1's two best drivers Alonso and Vettel. Hopefully with Webber Schumacher and Raikkonen too

First sentence was ok

How can people still assume this guy is top tier in f1? I think ever since leaving the mostly illegal renault team of briatore, he has been pretty average.

Credibility points :down:

#12527 hammibal

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 15:04

I´m mainly talking about results. He had it pretty hard, and got beaten, by a newcomer to the series in mclaren, and at ferrari has he really stood out? Ofc he didnt really have the best car, but at times very quick depending on tracks, but I really dont see him extracting anything more than could be expected from the car. Nor has he managed to improve the car in any significant way in two years...

Well i think even the most ardent Alonso supporters would agree now that its the designers that make the car go quick

alonso beated hamilton 10:7 in races although having mclaren racing against him.
dont know what you want to say.

2. Hamilton 109
3. Alonso 109

#12528 F1Champion

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 15:19

alonso beated hamilton 10:7 in races although having mclaren racing against him.
dont know what you want to say.


You're comparing a rookie F1 driver in his first season (I'll state that again...a rookie in his first season) with a 2x WDC with 8 years F1 experience, 10:7 is a fantastic result for Hamilton and the fact that they were level at the end of the season meant that Hamilton for me was the better driver. Don't get me wrong Alonso is up there with Hamilton, no doubt, but that season is Hamilton's for the fact that he competed with a WDC and nearly won a championship in his first season. You can try to say that Alonso was racing against the team but that was his fault wasn't it, he has a choice and blackmailed RD. He ruined his own position in the team, don't forget that for a second, it was his doing. He could of gone about it differently and with his experience of leading teams, make an effort to be a team leader like Button did this season, but he didn't.

#12529 puxanando

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 17:43

You can try to say that Alonso was racing against the team but that was his fault wasn't it, he has a choice and blackmailed RD. He ruined his own position in the team, don't forget that for a second, it was his doing. He could of gone about it differently and with his experience of leading teams, make an effort to be a team leader like Button did this season, but he didn't.

How can you know this? Nobody here knows the real things which happen in the team! So bad he couldn't have had understanding with the people there.
Look - there are changing a lot of McLaren employers to Ferrari! :p

#12530 xlr8

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 18:43

How can people still assume this guy is top tier in f1? I think ever since leaving the mostly illegal renault team of briatore, he has been pretty average.


Because not everyone has your IQ level.

#12531 ferrarijon123

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 18:54

Because not everyone has your IQ level.

:rotfl: :lol:

#12532 Rikhart

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 19:03

You're comparing a rookie F1 driver in his first season (I'll state that again...a rookie in his first season) with a 2x WDC with 8 years F1 experience, 10:7 is a fantastic result for Hamilton and the fact that they were level at the end of the season meant that Hamilton for me was the better driver. Don't get me wrong Alonso is up there with Hamilton, no doubt, but that season is Hamilton's for the fact that he competed with a WDC and nearly won a championship in his first season. You can try to say that Alonso was racing against the team but that was his fault wasn't it, he has a choice and blackmailed RD. He ruined his own position in the team, don't forget that for a second, it was his doing. He could of gone about it differently and with his experience of leading teams, make an effort to be a team leader like Button did this season, but he didn't.


Yes exactly, it has been completely downhill for alonso ever since he first left renault... Hasnt really shone, in my oppinion.

#12533 Rikhart

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 19:04

Because not everyone has your IQ level.



Very apparent from the level of your response...

#12534 IceSkyrim

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 19:09

Face the facts people...

The Frenando Afondo Fever is fading.

Nobody wants to broadcast the 2012 season in Spain.

No more LobAtomy :p

#12535 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 19:09

Very apparent from the level of your response...


I actually love his response because it is open to interpretation...

I'm still interested in finding out how exactly you feel he could have performed better than he did in 2011 and what exactly you feel he should do to "shine".

Edited by RockyRaccoon68, 27 January 2012 - 19:18.


#12536 xlr8

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 19:11

Very apparent from the level of your response...


C'mon, don't be so mean. :p

You asked a question and i gave my answer.

#12537 puxanando

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 19:57

Face the facts people...

The Frenando Afondo Fever is fading.

Nobody wants to broadcast the 2012 season in Spain.

No more LobAtomy :p


:rotfl:


#12538 YellowHelmet

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 21:28

You're comparing a rookie F1 driver in his first season (I'll state that again...a rookie in his first season) with a 2x WDC with 8 years F1 experience, 10:7 is a fantastic result for Hamilton

not if the team was racing against alonso.

as we saw in 2011, if the team is treating both drivers equal, even a button can beat hamilton and that with quite a margin .

Edited by YellowHelmet, 27 January 2012 - 21:31.


#12539 puxanando

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 22:22

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#12540 F1Champion

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 22:30

not if the team was racing against alonso.

as we saw in 2011, if the team is treating both drivers equal, even a button can beat hamilton and that with quite a margin .


Yes but again why were the team against him? Because he shot himself in the foot blackmailing RD the head and founder of the team and then screaming that he wanted no 1 status.
It only got bad from Hungary onwards, up until that point the team were behind both drivers. Even then his experience should of meant that he should of easily beaten Hamilton at tracks he had never been to and once you're in the car you control your race anyway.

#12541 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 22:45

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Hard training! Lots of hours in the simulator! Lots of hunger for the WDC & WCC. Let's go Fernando!! You can do it. :up:

#12542 freya

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 23:01

*babble*


Good try. But your 10:7 doesn't count technical issues/team mess ups, which alonso had none of btw during the entire season. Funny, since the team was against him but he got a 100% reliable car and flawless team for whole season, something that has not happened many times in history.


#12543 Fontainebleau

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 23:35

Good try. But your 10:7 doesn't count technical issues/team mess ups, which alonso had none of btw during the entire season. Funny, since the team was against him but he got a 100% reliable car and flawless team for whole season, something that has not happened many times in history.

Really. I guess you think that the late season time differences between Alonso and Hamilton were down to different skill levels, which funnily had not been there for the previous races.

Why don't you check performances for the two McLaren cars in Brazil 2007?

#12544 as65p

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 00:00

Good try. But your 10:7 doesn't count technical issues/team mess ups, which alonso had none of btw during the entire season. Funny, since the team was against him but he got a 100% reliable car and flawless team for whole season, something that has not happened many times in history.


Bad try. Alonso couldn't set a time in France Q3 because of gearbox trouble, therefore had to start 10th. And flawless team... that's a nice one! :lol: Agree, however, that the McLaren opera of 2007 stands unique in history...

#12545 puxanando

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 11:51

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:)

#12546 freya

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 12:36

Really. I guess you think that the late season time differences between Alonso and Hamilton were down to different skill levels, which funnily had not been there for the previous races.

Why don't you check performances for the two McLaren cars in Brazil 2007?


Fernando was on his 2nd run on engine that day. I remember it because I cheered for him back then. The performance differences were there all season. Hamilton was on podium every race for god knows how long. Even in australia people accused Mclaren of sneaking Alonso past Hamilton and in Monaco there was a huge issue with Mclaren owning Hamilton with strategy even though he was faster. The issue made RD come out and explain and defend the team decisions. In Barcelona alonso was messing with NH all race. In Canada, Alonso was simply weak. In USA obviously the whining was just strange cause hamilton was simply faster and had a better qualifying. Point is, even from the view of someone who wanted alonso to win back then, Hamilton was simply better. And anyone with a bit of dignity can understand that RD is a man of authenticity and alonso was given the best car possible in every race.

Nonetheless, whoever calls it "10-7" and forget about the last 2 races is just delusional. Like it or not, Hamilton was better in 2007.

#12547 as65p

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 13:27

Fernando was on his 2nd run on engine that day. I remember it because I cheered for him back then. The performance differences were there all season. Hamilton was on podium every race for god knows how long. Even in australia people accused Mclaren of sneaking Alonso past Hamilton and in Monaco there was a huge issue with Mclaren owning Hamilton with strategy even though he was faster. The issue made RD come out and explain and defend the team decisions. In Barcelona alonso was messing with NH all race. In Canada, Alonso was simply weak. In USA obviously the whining was just strange cause hamilton was simply faster and had a better qualifying. Point is, even from the view of someone who wanted alonso to win back then, Hamilton was simply better. And anyone with a bit of dignity can understand that RD is a man of authenticity and alonso was given the best car possible in every race.

Nonetheless, whoever calls it "10-7" and forget about the last 2 races is just delusional. Like it or not, Hamilton was better in 2007.


The 10-7 is just as undisputable as Hamilton finishing ahead in the WDC table, like it or not.

#12548 Buttoneer

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 17:35

No more room in this thread for Alonso v Hamilton 2007, sorry guys. It's full to the brim so you better go find the 'Ultimate Alonso v Hamilton 2007' thread and pour it all in that one.

#12549 TheBunk

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 17:41

Very wise decision I guess. :)

#12550 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 17:51

No more room in this thread for Alonso v Hamilton 2007, sorry guys. It's full to the brim so you better go find the 'Ultimate Alonso v Hamilton 2007' thread and pour it all in that one.

Thank you very much.


Back on topic, Fernando seemed to be laughing in the latest picture. I'm sure the drivers are already in shape, this will hopefully add to it and allow them time to focus before the upcoming tests.